Is Zangief really that bad?

[@Dhampire1976]

Zangief is the epitome of "resident grappler that we have no clue how to balance so we gotta make him bad just to be safe"

[@kingbulbasaur9460]

Grapplers like Gief are low tier by nature because of their high risk archetype. They are inconsistent to get good results with, so they always gravitate towards the bottom. You clearly don't understand how balance works

[@marcuss4697]

​@@kingbulbasaur9460 love the finger pointing at the end. Nah, your analysis applies to something like Potemkin. Gief is bad because of a painfully slow gameplan and bad neutral in a fast game. OP is right, he could be given more tools to both be made more fun and more viable. But Capcom is scared of buffing him after SF4 I suppose

[@Waiives]

that final sentence was so unnecessary lol​@@kingbulbasaur9460

[@PuraCaseus]

Indeed, even in Street fighter 5 they nerfed him while he was at the bottom, just because he had a good crouching jab xdd

[@Rincewindus]

Well yeah, SF, being the first fighting game to hit it big, has a bunch of characters that are Archetypes in of themselves.

[@tigerwolfeagle1]

The problem with Gief isn't JUST that he's a volatile character with bad moves and limited options, but he's fun enough that you can see past that and become a loyal fan yourself

[@jondiaz3329]

Exactly, I will never stop playing him. It's too damn fun when things go right.

[@Boom_OH]

Yup exactly. The feel when you are fully in your opponents head is unmatched

[@k00LTV]

This, say what you want about Gief being bad, he might be, but no one ever says he is not a fun char to play, he is a TON of fun to play in SF6 when things go your way.

[@1000Tomatoes]

Every time I jump over lariat I feel like I have to apologize.

[@yuichikita6018]

It's like throwing paper to scissor, and winning somehow.

[@JuicyLeek]

@@yuichikita6018 Like throwing paper to a scissor made of paper

[@ChildOfChrist89]

Why? Lariat is one of the best anti-airs in the game. It would be broken if it crossed up.

[@Dr.Faustus.]

The gief experience is climbing the ranked ladder. But the twist is the ladder is covered in oil called "one and done"

[@notmyfullname598]

Mama Lizz's one and done oil

[@sergiodominguez6864]

Facts

[@slartymcguarty2954]

poetry

[@Achallon]

At least be thankful it’s not Tekken levels of one and done

[@krugerstan]

why is "one and done" bad? I don't play fighting games.

[@git_blame]

SF6 has like 10 bottom 1 characters according to people who main them

[@Dhampire1976]

Not true. My character is bottom 1. Everyone else's is top tier smh my head

[@bub6215]

Mate, Honda's neutral is so bad i have to headbut to win. Do you know how many concussions I've suffered? Cuz i don't remember... How'd i get here?

[@toosquare]

Idk if rooflemonger is the one to listen to about it anyway lol

[@sm7085]

@@bub6215 If head hurt use butt - HondaMentals 101

[@aledantih6524]

@@toosquare A lot more than just him say it's Manon

[@jaksida300]

He’s a really fun iteration of Gief, even if games can be an uphill battle sometimes.

[@truebluebooboo]

Grief is phenomenal in this game, as far as how fun he is, how satisfying he is.

[@Jardonius]

I think the uphill adds to the fun factor (most of the time) so im cool with that. I always have Ken to fall back on if they bruise my ego too much

[@TheCJRhodes]

yeah they hit him out of the park in so many ways, that the frustration often melts away when you are able to land certain things somehow.

[@limpst3ak]

He's similar to SFV but less fun I think

[@Brotlov]

@@TheCJRhodes If you're able to pick up on your opponent's defensive habits, he's the most fun character in the game.

[@meek0840]

3:26 Broski: "Throw a fireball", Chun li "Aight say no more fam"

[@Azteck9]

If Gief was an NRS character, He would have broken beer bottles as a projectile. He could have multiples of them on screen at the same time, and they'd be plus on block while the shards do extra chip damage.

[@TheCJRhodes]

and/or they'd give him some sort of lasting shield/armor thingy, that makes him able to walk menacingly towards his opponents.

[@sammythijs8641]

My knee jerk reaction reading this was “ that’s BS, NRS is notorious for not having proper grappl… haaang on a second!! “ 💀

[@power50001562]

​@@sammythijs8641Reiko standing in the corner with arguably the best projectile in the game

[@axeoseilez3207]

That line about wake up level 3 is so true. That is true grappler brain. You know your in the opponents head when they jump all over the place fearing it and when they let their guard down level 3. My loyal fans.

[@Dabear3234]

Broski hold the world record for most tundra storms ever landed

[@VilArknights]

Nah, that’s demondan.

[@DrSwazz]

@@VilArknights I need to see a collab between those two.

[@zhaf]

Zangief: Do it! **pose** Juri: Okay! **horisontal kick**

[@shinluis]

Whats up with this horizontal kick thing? I dont think thats a thing?!!

[@zhaf]

@@shinluis Giefs counter move only works on horizontal kicks. I know it usually isn't a Street Fighter thing and everyone thought it as a joke when they introduced it in SFV but it wasn't and it is still there in SF6. Usually a totally useless move.

[@cerdi_99]

@@zhaf i becomes somewhat useful against juri and cammy. And even that, it's SO BAD

[@joaquinbitancor1269]

@@zhaf do you know wich kicks doesn't counter? This is the first time i hear about this

[@FRAUD--]

@@joaquinbitancor1269 You see how Gief raises his arms when he's in the counter state? Any kick that doesn't go between his hands doesn't activate it, so just about every low beats it, and any super beats it regardless of where it hits. Also, since the counter state's followup is considered a grounded throw it loses to any form of throw invuln, including being airborne. I should also mention it was even worse in SFV where it was WAY less active and only worked on a nonsensical list of a few specific kicks.

[@armo-bb-]

I work an 8-5, i come home pop in sf6 for an hour or two grappling fools and call it a day lol im not too bothered about my placement in rank, i just love my big russian bear. gief gang :3

[@TheCJRhodes]

i think that's the majority of the playerbase's relationship with the game regardless of who they play... we all just don't go on twitter/reddit/YT to talk about it though :P

[@rundown132]

champion mentality

[@k00LTV]

While the FGC cries about balance this, nerf that, buff this - the real ones just turn on their consoles to have their 2 hours of deserved fun after their 9-5 and call it day, and that's what fun in video-games should be like.

[@DrSwazz]

@@k00LTV Damn straight. For me it's 2 hrs with the loyal fans or the thighs

[@budgetcommander4849]

@@k00LTVLet people enjoy games how they want. Playing fighting games like that isn't fulfilling for me.

[@ElChocoLocoDeLaVega]

James Chen gave the Gief experience a try some time ago and he called it "an exercise in frustration".

[@strikermodel]

It's the grappler's curse. If they are good for any amount of time, they instantly jump to being disgusting. Potemkin and Big Red aka YOU DODGED? Both had their time in the limelight only once, and got heavily nerfed into the ground for it. Iirc it has something to do with how oppressive a grappler is if they are strong enough to compete by the nature of their gameplan.

[@heksevillehero]

Tager getting butchered in CF was so upsetting. But nothing makes me more livid than knowing that Potemkin's standard launch combo (c.S -> 2S -> 2H) got nerfed in XRD Rev and no longer links without a counter hit or the corner, unlike XRD SIGN, where it worked midscreen consistently.

[@amai2307]

No, it is all about how disgustingly weak are devs to whine at social networks.

[@noahbeal4555]

Zangief is as strong as your opponent is afraid.

[@kewpuh3338]

finally, the tundra storm guide ive been looking for

[@Tabootrinket]

Damn Ed's Lvl 1 is sad. The reaction was great but Gief had the time to whiff a whole beautiful jab before blocking it

[@toosquare]

That’s the case for many level 1s in this game. Coincidentally they’re almost all on already weaker characters too lol

[@budgetcommander4849]

Shocked that a master rank tried that shit. I'm plat 1 and even I know not to trust Ed's supers as reversals

[@ΚρανίΩ]

@@toosquarenah its just lily kim and ed no one else has a level 1 where you cam just meaty jab. ed's got the worst one by far tho its slower

[@toosquare]

@@ΚρανίΩ You're missing some. Lily, Kimberly, Ed, Manon, Jamie, and Aki's level 1s can all be beat by meaty jab with varying degrees of ease. And Ed's isn't the slowest, it's the same speed as Lily's.

[@thealgerian3285]

Now imagine being a complete beginner who started fighting games with SF6 and being a Gief main. You'll know my struggle.

[@amai2307]

You should play melty blood instead. At least it would be fun.

[@Tymiex]

i do miss the cannon sound gief's grabs made in his trailer

[@realchezboi]

definitely, so powerful

[@souris_a_boule5695]

Finally someone mention it!!

[@Switcheroo4542]

Had to go back and listen, that's sick

[@mattmalco10]

Also every KZbinr I've watched do a run on Gief (you, Nephew J Wong etc) has had a massive smile on their face the majority of the time

[@elim9054]

The bit about rushdown/pressure being worse than zoning is pretty much exactly how I feel about playing Waldstein in Under Night, who is my favorite grappler in any FG. He has quite a few solid tools that deal with projectiles, but up close his fastest buttons are 3 frames _slower_ than the fastest normals in the game (8 frames vs 5 frames).

[@MentalAtrophy]

Dang. Broski finally playing the #1 best boy and only S-tier character in the game. You will learn to love the Gief the more you play him.

[@pmk4609]

Gief has a super fun kit in SF6, looking forward to seeing the rest of the week. Have fun scoopin'

[@Kuromusha]

I didn’t even know Gief had a parry. 🤯

[@evilded2]

Yeah cause it's turbo ass

[@Jaysankos]

Just remove it from your brain, it's not useful info/

[@playmakernova]

It’s Soooo Ass!

[@ElChocoLocoDeLaVega]

That's because it's so bad that no Gief will ever use it on purpose. The same goes with that Mortal Kombat uppercut.

[@ri_c_e]

@@ElChocoLocoDeLaVegawell not exactly but yeah

[@ryo-kai8587]

2:53 lol what a moment Nice work with Gief! Glad to see you're enjoying him even if you never plan to play him seriously

[@williambrown4744]

Your grief is good loving the combo setup and the use of lariat, you use it correctly and I love your use of the tundra storm, I hope of gief's took some notes

[@h8reset194]

Seeing this, Snake Eyes stream yesterday and Strider's vídeo about how bad gief is couple days ago make the whole "Life is about perspective" thing create a lot of food for thought tho xD, philosofic gief rants hahahaah

[@EdgeO419]

ofc its always good to make a quick youtube vid about how gief players are complaining needlessly and then go back to your mains who are WAY better.

[@tylerlackey1175]

​@@EdgeO419Luke mains in their Manhattan penthouse know how it is to fight for scraps on the streets day after day, just think of the c. med punch nerf they gave him, clearly zangief players need to suck it up

[@stevo2574]

Dude this was awesome to watch. I am just getting started in the fighting genre and I really enjoy these videos. Thank you.

[@kingkrispy5289]

ngl that starting clip was the highest display of skill i've ever seen in my entire life

[@imnotcreative27]

Zangief is the most fun and satisfying fighting game character I have EVER played. Reading your opponents jump and air SPDing them to win the round STILL gives me goose bumps. If he gets some love I can see him being a favorite

[@kuaikukia]

*Me when game first launch* I pick Manon because I knew she is gonna be OP. EASY BREEZE. *After.playing Manon for one year* Why am I still here? Just to suffer?

[@kibzterr]

Gief is power* bottom one

[@mehbanette9762]

I love being forced to spend 3 bars of drive just to link a light normal into lariat, but yeah the more you play Gief, the more you see his flaws Like how you don’t have a Crouch Heavy Punch, MP target combo hardly links even on Counter Hit, Lariat not hitting behind, HP Punish Counter sends full screen, Bear Grab is ass etc

[@VenenoSX]

The lariat man, I can't believe my antiair tool doesn't counter aerial attacks consistently. And yeah, I love that my only invul reversal cost me 3 bars of super.

[@reb3lvagabond238]

I can live with lariat not hitting behind, but they gotta speed that shit up it is way too slow to be able to react to anything reliably Also tbh just do OD lariat instead of drive rush after lights, you only losing like 100 damage in exchange for saving a bar of drive and getting a way better knockdown

[@TheFatManatee]

I agree with most of this but PC heavy punch launcher the opponent is really good for gief. It’s a ton of corner carry and if it’s fully charged you can either double dash or DR for insane oki after

[@mehbanette9762]

@@TheFatManatee true, some situations it’s annoying though, like yes it’s nice to get the opponent off of you, but having to spend the meter is annoying, cause otherwise you basically are back to square one of trying to get in on your opponent

[@mehbanette9762]

@@TheFatManatee it’s similar to why charged jump HK is annoying on regular hit, oh boy now I have to spend meter to be halfway close to my opponent

[@thatboytoni238]

It's crazy to me how people consider characters like Zangief, Honda, Manon all low tier but will then say how scary they are.

[@Eidlones]

People: "Watch people better than you, and see what they do, to get better" Me watching Broski: *Kimberly doesn't turn a very punishable whiff into a combo, he punishes.* Me playing: *The Kimberly turns the whiff into a combo that takes me from one side of the stage to the other and puts me in the corner.* Yeah, a bit salty, but like, it seems like a shocking amount of time, the people in higher rankings play so much worse than those at lower ones. Like... my god, the amount of 6HK he lands is disgusting. I don't use it much, so it's not like my opponents are waiting for it, but they still have zero problem blocking it unless they've already comitted to a move. Like 80% of my 6HK hits are counters.

[@PillzmansFox]

One thing I've been trying to add is down forward throws instead of just punish counter spds, it sets you up for a frame kill into ex SPD

[@Harlec]

You are now a loyal fan. Congratulations and welcome.

[@Rafaedx3]

Out of all fgc content, you have the best intro❤

[@Raxyz_0]

Playing Gief seems to have a high Wheezes-Per-Minute effect. lmao

[@projectikaruga]

Gief is the only reason i play Street 6. But playing as him is a real test of patience

[@perseus6024]

For real...

[@rarol1103]

This would be cool as a series, X character to X rank series, learning tech along the way and at the end you can reveal everybody’s secret tech

[@Taizen_Chisou]

the exceedingly rare broski cold open?!

[@itloaf]

I was a gief main before the AKI conversion, so I'm glad you see the appeal haha

[@EvilCoffeeInc]

Lily exists so I'm inclined to say no.

[@MikeStu]

hey as long as broski's happy

[@LakeEarth]

12:46 maybe they meant on a regular crumple? Regular SPD and double duplex are scaled after DI, but their OD versions aren't. For future reference, you could have killed with hell stab xx OD lariat into OD air spd.

[@zachariahbest6626]

the lack of defense makes everything seem much worse than it is

[@reeidly]

you mentioning sysiphus makes me think of Northernlion's streams and him going "get it twisted" everytime the rock falls

[@thegalacticfederation1212]

How to fix Zangief Step 1) Bring back green hand. Step 2) I don't know.

[@PulseFire215]

After playing Gief a lot in this game, my take away isn’t “he’s good” or “he’s bad.” It’s just “he’s fun.”

[@El-Burrito]

Your AKI is great (and cool of course) but I really love watching you play Zangief and Yoshimitsu

[@SomeAndroid]

For me personally, Manon is the weakest currently. But its not like I'm gonna argue with someone if they feel one of the other low tier characters are the weakest.

[@HellecticMojo]

The perspective likely depends on how you see the game and what do you value as a player. Weakest data: Manon, terrible frame data everywhere, worst distance DR. Feels weakest: Jamie, always starting on backfoot and need to grow in power just as the round ends. Weakest kit: Lily, only having wind into spire for utility.

[@yanukan]

Nice to see Broski having fun with Gief

[@markmelancon2914]

This is what the loyal fans needed.

[@tranquil3727]

that leg grab thing is so bizarre, i have NEVER seen someone use that in ranked

[@emopeanut987]

Because it only catches mid level kicks.

[@tranquil3727]

​@@emopeanut987im glad it exists. i like weird "style points" moves

[@kuaikukia]

Imagine someone clueless and try to parry ED. LOL

[@THE_REEEE_KING]

@@tranquil3727I cannot stress enough how it would be a buff to Gief by removing that move.

[@kingsman5121]

Only thing missing was the demon dan explosion every time he landed a scoop

[@rafdes]

Watching this stream made me want to go back to playing Gief.

[@DioTheGreatOne]

Bottom? I always thought of Zangief as a top. Wait, you're not talking about that?

[@EpsilonKnight2]

I swear if certain top players committed themselves to Gief instead of just writing him off after some cursory glances they could tear up the brackets unexpectedly. It's like for every 1 Gief you have 50 Kens and other top tiers. How many of those Ken players would be monsters with Gief? We won't know until they actually commit.

[@notforkliftcertified7884]

I just started SF6 but I'm a ken into gief convert. My main thing was gief is funny and fun to play, he's also hyuge. Idc about tiers or balance at diamond, probably won't get to diamond anyway. I'm here to have fun, and I'm used to losing because my bro who got me into the game is master and beats me 40-0 when we play, I've become immune to the feeling of loss. Loss only strengthens my resolve!

[@ShinsuKaioseiCh]

Ah yes, the grappler life

[@bbyjohn11]

Some of these heavy pressure giefs are a menace tbh

[@CMSparks95]

Man, you are a natural gief. Had to watch this a second time

[@FernandoJCruz-kt1zo]

5:39 That has to be the funniest gief play I have ever seen.

[@kenhoable]

Once Zangief get to master rank, there are so many flow chart players that become very frustrating to play.

[@degen7278]

18:24 the grappler made me piss my pants walk. I know it too well.

[@imnotcarlos]

when someone rushes Broski who is using a grappler: Panik

[@Chorkly]

One must imagine Broski happy

[@donnyboi1990]

It drives me nuts how his super can grab out of a DP.

[@neuroKip]

I wish tundra has an od version with wall bounce and have at least another reversal than just lvl 3.

[@Madolcheplayer]

I feel like Gief was designed with the intend to have big damage at the cost of bad oki, but the designers forgot to put the damage in his normal combos. The fact that he gets no oki off most non-grab enders means that getting hit by him in the neutral is really not punishing at all (including when you are anti-aired) unless 1) You are cornered. 2) You get hit with specifically punish counter sweep. And it’s not like Gief has a easier time landing hits compared to the good characters (in fact it’s the opposite). In SF6 in general they seemed to prefer not giving grapplers oki while most characters have looping offense after you get either hit and thrown, resulting in all of them being bottom tier (It’s telling that the only good grappler, Marisa, is the only one who gets oki after she knocks you down)

[@Brotlov]

I do still believe that Manon should have no oki ever off of command grab because of how it works, but she should have some way to setup into looping oki that can end in command grab. Lily and Zangief should have lower damage on SPD for oki tho, imo.

[@anarking5764]

marisa isn't even a grapper either shes more of a bully character whos command grab is more for mix than being her end goal, especially considering you can go entire rounds without an attempted command grab and do great but you do have a good point, what I find especially weird as a marisa main is how arbitrarily they give her looping oki, sure its not a command grab but her average combo does spd damage or higher and she gets to keep oki because what? and they even gave her better defense than gief too, sure her parry is definitely a below average reversal but its definitely something especially compared to gief lacking any sort of reversal, plus while she does lack an invincible level 1 at least her level 2 is a really solid reversal

[@Brotlov]

@@anarking5764 Yeah, what you say about Marisa's archetype is entirely correct. Funnily enough, that's why she's better than all the grapplers and even has a better matchup against Gief than characters above her have. The Marisa matchup is so annoying with Gief, even more so than Guile or JP, because of her character archetype.

[@heksevillehero]

​@@BrotlovHer armor breakers absolutely butcher Gief's approach and Neutral to an insane degree

[@BigCreepySleepy]

Thanks for the Gief content. 🥃

[@HageanFQ]

I’ve spent hours upon hours learning the game and Gief himself to get to diamond 3, just for him to reach master in under 3 hours lmao

[@nejikuchiki_7047]

I'm assuming a big balance patch comes out with akuma?

[@WormyJester8]

9:04 Alex's Super 3?

[@nivrap_]

They should give Gief a second level 1 that's just a grounded invincible grab. Doesn't even have to do any damage, just get the opponent off of you 😅

[@perseus6024]

For real! Anything invincible just to get the opponent off you.

[@crespelle]

Broski playing Gief? instant like

[@Wootsk]

A good craftman never blames his tool. Tekken panda won all highest tier.

[@LUAPwashere]

10 seconds in and a Tundra Storm is landed. Instant thumbs up.

[@zxt5148]

What is that song at the start?

[@gaegraga3738]

Hell yeah.

[@hames9590]

Not gonna lie broski you might as well SPD after a drive impact to get some damage chunks in

[@GhostGirlBlues]

i main zangief. this is my first time having a main. back in sf4, i got every character to c rank (before ultra, for a steam achievement), so i did it again in 6 by getting everyone to bronze. now i'm working on silver. my main issue with him is that sometimes i do a normal attack too close to SPD and whiff. i can't stand that it's designed to have negative range if you cancel into it. literally impossible to land, which is seemingly on purpose as a balance decision

[@lukusridley]

the tundra storm mastermind

[@lordsmellysocks]

18:37 I am proud to be a loyal fan of broski

[@PipeRetrogamer]

With gief, the best defense is to try and check everything. preferably with lights😅

[@the_russian_tanker]

Yeah, I've been waiting dor this!

[@Qaianna]

One of us ... one of us ... one of us ... Granted, I could do better. My usual solution to 'do I use drive rush combos?' is 'what's drive rush?'. Which probably explains why I'm not out of platinum yet.

[@elijahoneill5228]

As a guile player not getting a rematch is hilariously common. The og gatekeepers

[@EllinNuh]

No absolutely not, as a Gief player, he is FAR from bottom one. Honda, Lily and Manon exist lmao

[@MattApocaalypse]

Tundra storm stuffing kim DI is insane

[@UCDitto]

People, what do you think about a new SF6 Character that's just Ed but all kicks, and he's either Handicapped or in a Straight Jacket

[@lom1991]

His blocking animation would be very interesting

[@jamessm4401]

Can someone give me the logic behind the lariat not covering cross ups when he has 2 arms going in a helicopter motion? Meanwhile the shotos have their tatsus that gave 1 leg up and 1 leg straight down and it covers cross ups.

[@KaitouKaiju]

Only Ken's covers crossups

[@jamessm4401]

@@KaitouKaiju ok same question but with Ken only.

[@HellecticMojo]

Zangief is not bad compared to Lily, Manon, Jamie, but that's like saying puddle of piss is better than gallon of puke. Outside of Lily, the people above have the issue that their kit isn't strong enough rather than it not working. Gief has the issue that half of his kit simply doesn't work. His punishes don't punish, his anti airs miss air constantly. More than any other character, I want his animations adjusted, because everything about the character makes you scream "WHY DOES THAT HAPPEN" and force you to check the wiki to see his hitbox. People teleport into his SPD, People rub freely against his level 1, his spins don't have a backside.

[@cosmic5665]

Why the hell do you complain in every sf6 video?

[@HellecticMojo]

​@@cosmic5665 really. Quote me my posts in every sf6 videos with citations.

[@HellecticMojo]

@@cosmic5665 still waiting, or are you going to admit to talking shit for no reason?

[@michaelcarrig627]

This isn't a video about Lily. I don't even think this is a meaningful debate. *Great stream as always.

[@douglepong]

Who takes away backhand??

[@tanzolo4487]

I don’t believe he is that bad. He just requires A LOT of patience. But if you have patience, and you make them lose theirs. You can dominate with him.

[@MidKnighter]

Gief might be lacking in some ways, but his crazy high damage combined with really good Light punches makes him strong in his own way. I mainly wish his air command grab had better range and maybe allow more of his normals to Drive Rush. But honestly he is crazy fun

[@TheKenyanKid]

I was playing characters like manon, kim, aki (around plat level) malding but with gief i immediately get put against a diamond ryu and almost beat him through pure vibes and loyal fans

[@PaddyRoon7]

Funny that you find rushdown harder to deal with than zoning, kinda runs counter to the whole Zoner > Grappler > Rushdown triangle

[@charlotte_0_0_0]

I support this endeavor