Isai (Falcon) vs. Ken (Marth) Match 4

I'm not sure if this was submitted already because of it's age, but I'll take if off is anyone gives me an older KZbin link than mine. Anyway, this was the 4th match out of what I believe was a best-out-of 5 set for the finals of MOAST 3 in Dallas, Texas in 2005. Both are highly ranked pros. I had no part in the tournament or the production of this video.
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EDIT: Lol, 337 comments.

[@Sunset2215]

This set is LEGENDARY.

[@DemonmachinE]

This is the greatest match I've ever seen... and it's between my two favourite players and my two mains! :)

[@metroid1117]

There are several issues here that need to be addressed: Competitive play works to separate players based on skill and skill alone - regulations and rules help to ban "unfair" factors such as luck and positioning. For example, stages such as Temple Bay are banned because a Fox user can simply shoot someone once and then run away for the entire match.

[@williamgrand9724]

Wow, almost ten years ago...

[@sparkeee3]

Now it's 14 years old

[@Dahniska1]

Wow, All of Ken's kills were epic. And then Isai just had another epic comeback. Amazing duel.

[@metroid1117]

@CMaGn3t It's hard to see, but if you look really closely you can see a little blue ring appearing under Marth when he rises into the air; that blue ring appears whenever any character uses their double jump (except for Jiggs and Kirby, I think).

[@metroid1117]

Not all matches are on Final Destination. At the start of a singles set there are 6 stages that can be picked by random: Yoshi's Island, Dream Land 64, Pokemon Stadium, Fountain of Dreams, Battlefield, and Final Destination. In addition to those stages, there are 8 additional stages that can be chosen by the loser of the first match and all matches after that.

[@metroid1117]

@mrgoodfight14 Yes, that's what you do. (1) Let go of the edge by pressing "back" or "down", (2) jump, (3) input what attack you want to do, and (4) drift towards the stage. 3 and 4 are interchangeable depending on when you want to do the attack (right as you get up, or when you're landing). The steps I gave above just didn't include the "drift towards the stage" part.

[@metroid1117]

@gilamunja They retired even before Brawl came out, I believe. Ken briefly came out of retirement to play Brawl at Evo 2009 (?) and I heard Isai popped up at some Melee tournament in California, but I don't think they've really been active.

[@DanielSabzghabaei]

These two players are so evenly matched it's ridiculous. Each one pulls off some really impressive combos where I'm just like....damn wtf. Great match.

[@jamduke]

What's the practical use of dashdancing because they always seem to do it and I never know why...

[@metroid1117]

Yeah, it is very old. I downloaded it last summer, and I think that was still some time after the actual match.

[@metroid1117]

@CMaGn3t What Ken did was edgehop DAir; he grabbed the edge, let go of it (either by pressing down or back on the control stick), and then jumped and did a down aerial. You can do other things besides a down aerial such as any other aerial, airdodging onto the stage, or just regrabbing the edge.

[@metroid1117]

@mrgoodfight14 The common term is "edgehopping." To do it, you must let go of the edge (most people press "away" or "down" on the control stick), then jump and do any aerial attack you want.

[@eddiestilll]

14 years later, still 1 of da most epic games ive seen in Melee history.

[@metroid1117]

Actually, that guy is Ken, who is currently the best player in the world. You have to keep in mind that this is the fourth match out of five; although I didn't post them, Ken had won the first and third, while Isai had won the second. When Isai won, however, it was a turn-around, much like this one, so Ken was mentally bracing himself. Also, Isai is just a very good player and should not be underestimated by anyone.

[@metroid1117]

L-canceling is a vital aspect to the game because it gives you more possibilities for follow-up attacks. What should I do after I hit him up in the air? Whoop, too bad, there's too much lag after that attack because I missed my l-cancel. Comboing an opponent is an active process in Smash; you can't just press a sequence of buttons and expect it to work. You have to chase your opponent. L-canceling allows you to be flexible and gives the aggressor an edge.

[@gilamunja]

@metroid1117 was the brawl the end of them? I can imagine it being so. Melee was on another level, Brawl, although fun, was no where near as sharp

[@Maj0ra]

Is sweetspot when you do your UP-B perfectly to grab the edge?

[@AnonyNoob]

That was one hell of a comeback, ESPECIALLY since it was against Ken on Marth of all bloody opponents. Props Isai, props

[@gundamxzero3]

you have the link to that ken isai where isai had peach

[@metroid1117]

They're both from California, but I forgot where specifically (Socal or Norcal).

[@Shock0055]

Even though these videos are from 2006, they are still good today to watch!

[@linkoninja]

Since Isai's time what new tech's have come out?

[@CHUCKWIGZ]

omg this one of the best matches when u talk about momentum swings some of the best players right there im really good but this is just GODNESS shit right here and i dont think ill ever be this good ever

[@FishamanP]

OH MY GAWD! KEN LOST AT SSBM!?! I mean, Isai is awesome and all, and his picture is on the SSB box, but still... KEN LOST!?!

[@scntillatedseed]

Craziest match ever. To this day, i think this is still one of the most impressive I've seen.

[@ruhtraeel]

@metroid1117 Isai is from Norcal. No idea where Ken is from.

[@DarkCrusaderMK]

1:05 "show me your moves" 1:09 - 1:14 "Done!"

[@metroid1117]

Err... sorry, but I don't get your question still >.>. Can you ask it more clearly? Is your question "Who is easier to play as, Fox or C.F.?"

[@metroid1117]

Try the video titled "SSBM Ken (Marth) vs. Isai (Fox), posted by OptimusLime. On my screen, it's the second video on the "Related" list.

[@metroid1117]

That being said, items are banned from competitive play because they give the opponent an advantage that they did not work to and that random incidents could take lives, such as exploding crates, barrels, and capsules. Although it is a skill to deflect items, your opponent can simply use it as a melee attack, such as beam sabers or home-run bats. Both items are extremely powerful and warrant the closest player an advantage they did not work to obtain.

[@kook333]

how does ken do the spike from the ledge

[@Saturi]

Dont be mistaken, i didnt say taunting period is noobish. I said taunting after EVERY ko is noobish. And most falcons taunt kinda often because it the shortest in the game, not cause its flashy.

[@metroid1117]

It's to confuse the opponent; if your opponent is close to you and they run towards you, your immediate reaction is probably going to use an attack to hit them. Dashdancing allows you to bait your opponent into attacking then running away to avoid that attack, then run in to punish for the lag.

[@metroid1117]

Sorry, but I think they've pretty much retired from Smash by now. Right now, the most dominant players are Mew2King (East Coast, but I heard he's moving to Midwest) and Mango (California, recognized by most people to be THE best in the world right now). You can try contacting them through Smashboards; they both have accounts there.

[@SwordSaint892]

The beautiful recovery at 0:29 ~ is on so many combo videos and stuff, cool to see the actual full game.

[@metroid1117]

I would think that G&W's taunt is shorter, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, I don't think that it's wrong to taunt after every kill as long as you don't get punished for it.

[@gordonice]

Thanks, metroid1117. Your absolute truth and logic is lovely. (in reference to previous posts, of course)

[@Dasol]

ken plays ike? how do you know this?

[@runningbrave17]

change the description its the finals of MOAST 3 from dallas, texas in 2005!

[@smashbrosmaniac]

the thing that amazes me the most about this video is taht it's 3 years old. imagine if these players didn't quit melee...

[@Zeodyne]

THIS was in 2005? Good lord, these players were WAAY ahead of their time.

[@felipehamouifurquim]

who is better roy or marth?

[@ultimatehaxor123]

@metroid1117 ken was at evo 2k8 and took 2nd. isai showed up at some norcal tourney (i think it was combo food) but he is def not out of retirement

[@metroid1117]

I'm not a Smash genius; I'm more like someone who's passionate about Smash XD. Anyways, can you clarify your question? Do you mean how much easier other characters are to face or to play as?

[@Saturi]

Didnt he only 3 stock him ? and didnt germ Selfdestruct once ?

[@blackjo007]

who was 3rd at this tournament? any videos?

[@Exapico]

@kandayo123 What about Aniki and Ken?

[@SenGamin]

Metroid1117, Gimpy said that ATTACKS carry the momentum that you were going in.. making wavedashing rather difficult (although he said Peach would be able to wavedash the easiest).

[@metroid1117]

Regarding the hammer, it's almost impossible to avoid the hammer user if you're playing a slow character such as Ganondorf or Bowser on a level such as Final Destination or Yoshi's Story. Also, when the mallet falls off the hammer, the player holding the handle is as good as dead.

[@KaKa4lifeDarkGold]

didnt expect that :) really good comback didnt expect it at all... omygosh

[@metroid1117]

No, it was some other user whose comment I removed.

[@metroid1117]

It's known as an edgehop; press "down" or "away" to let go of the edge, then immediately jump and do an aerial attack. In this case, Ken probably pressed and held "down", then slid his right thumb over the Y and A button so he spiked right after he jumped.

[@metroid1117]

Falcon Kick just does not kill unless at close range, and when you're in close range you have much better options. If your opponent shields it, they can wavedash out of shield and then kill you while you suffer from the lag.

[@joey.cs2]

I could read through the comments on this channel for hours, it's literal documented history of how these people were talked about in 06

[@metroid1117]

Search for the matches; Jiano got 4-stocked in the first round and came back to win the second round. After losing the third round, he came back from a three-stock and won. But then he lost the last round :(.

[@sumaesyecats]

choose which ever one best suits your play style, for me my main is C.F. and me second is a tie between marth and link

[@Boowazza]

Ever played fe1 or 3?

[@GodheadsLamentX]

The characters moves (whether or not you see them as "cheap") don't necessarily determine any advantage over the rest of them, its how well the player utilizes them in mindgames. The player wins, not the character.

[@treehann]

are these guys like world champions or something?

[@metroid1117]

Of course we'll adapt >.>... Brawl is not Melee 2.0. I'm looking forward to seeing how different (and fun) it is. By the way, Falcon Kick has been rendered even more useless in Brawl because it doesn't give you back your second jump.

[@SasukeItachixX]

can you say epic comeback by isai?

[@smashsylar11]

one of the most entertaining matches of all time

[@metroid1117]

Final Destination. If I recall correctly, you get this by beating Event 51.

[@metroid1117]

Lastly, wavedashing is still in Brawl; while you can't wavedash from the ground, you can waveland by airdodging from a running hop. 500 character limit is stupid.

[@DeathN0te]

Damn good match... I was actually entertained the whole time.

[@metroid1117]

Yup; this was from 2005.

[@ThisIsWEB]

Ken should have gone for the sweetspot at 2:06, and lol @ "Show me your moves" -> Flawless kill.

[@nahor88]

Um, Chu DOES play Brawl, he's one of the best. There's a number of matches on here of him playing as Kirby, and he's pretty damn good with him. He can actually string together some Melee style combos, following his opponents air dodge and DI. In fact, his only real competition is Chillin's MK. Besides that, M2K and Azen also play, and are among the best.

[@treehann]

@LaRiviera - yep moves were shown! that was an epic combo by ken

[@yELoHQ]

If you think is his greatest performance then you've only watched ONE of ken's many amazing bouts. Watch ken vs chillindude (beasting)

[@Sandbagging]

Note that you have described some characters as "cheap." This is merely a slightly garbled version of the concept of tiers.

[@Zanmato688]

i dont know his channel though

[@jamesdante1101]

@matzoball101 Why the heck would they re- release melee on the wii when it's PLAYABLE on the wii already.That's kind of like saying re-releasing a PS3 game on the PSN. only something like Zelda Twilight Princess was on Gamecube and Wii because not many people could've afforded the Wii at the time and gamecube was still popular. Now if you wanted to wavedash in melee with a wii-remote then good luck with that.

[@metroid1117]

Well okay, 1:05. It's AROUND 1:10, isn't it?

[@gundamxzero3]

ken had marth?

[@WarriorKnight87]

this match is like 2 1/2 years old. Until 2day very few falcon players could actually maneuver and be accurate with their attacks like isai did bak in these matches.

[@Saturi]

Wow, I completely agree. Very well put.

[@metroid1117]

@zevex747 They're retired now, but they were widely recognized as some of the best players in the nation. Isai is THE best player in the world at SSB64 though.

[@BobtheMoneythedbr]

one of the greatest matches of all time

[@TheFishSnacks]

I wish these guys still played :( Ken could easily hop back into the metagame if he wanted. DO IT!

[@SpoonOfHawaii]

i'll never get over that 2nd stock kill off of isai.. that move alone inspired me to play as marth

[@metroid1117]

It takes practice; be sure that you're using X or Y to jump and that you're pressing the button as QUICKLY (not as lightly) as possible. Start with Bowser, then move up to faster characters like Falco, and then Fox.

[@metroid1117]

Be whoever you want to be. No one except yourself should choose who your main is. Just pick up one as a main and the other as a secondary.

[@metroid1117]

Neutral B (shieldbreaker) has more horizontal knockback than any other aerial; another forward aerial would've just popped him up, giving him a chance to come back.

[@Saturi]

Peachyfoam seriously... Who are you ? Everytime i check an old video comment. I see you're name under mine. Are you from Smashboards or something ? or is it just coeincidence i keep finding you under my old video comments ?

[@Paodough]

too good.

[@metroid1117]

It's probably a substitute for the standard taunt because it takes too long.

[@metroid1117]

Natural talent. In all seriousness, most pros only play when there are major tournaments.

[@metroid1117]

Competitive play works to take these factors out to determine the difference between winner and loser by skill. Of course, you cannot completely erase luck from a match; suicides and phantom hits are still possible. However, you can try to eliminate most of the "luck" that occurs in the match. Bah, 500 character limit sucks.

[@gundamxzero3]

oh ken had marth?

[@tank5495]

Actually Tiers are based off characters most used in tournaments. Nothing more. I suggest everyone making a smashboards account or at least knowing what they are talking about no offense.

[@Miti-Mumway]

It's different for Captain Falcon players, in my opinion, cause from what I have noticed in others and myself (CF player also) you taunt more often, cause "show me ya moves" is so hot. But just cause someone taunts after killing seriously doesn't make them a scrub, especially if they use a flashy character with a great taunt like Falcon...

[@abelign1991]

my bad everyone its show me your moves..i thought it sounded different..

[@halfdemon13]

Please explain how that is noobish in any way.

[@sloperparks]

@zevex747 Ken was the best SSBM player until he retired to play Survivor. Isai left and became the best SSB player.

[@PNaleek]

what are YOU talking about? Falcon isn't a good Marth counter.

[@gordonice]

Don't criticize an FD match. Is not a football field always the same field, with the same markings? Same positions, doing the same sort of thing? Same with every sport. And every match continues to be different. The conditions are set for competition, not for unpredictable things. For me, unpredictability is for a time outside of smash. Like golf (haha).

[@SpottedZebra]

1:04 - 1:14 Moves were shown.