Isandlwana: What Caused One Of The Colonial Age's Worst Defeats For Britain? | Zulu Wars | Timeline

[@JohnRoy-nx1fu]

Sitting in church one Sunday morning our pastor Graham Currie gave a sermon on war & he mentioned Rourke’s drift. He asked if anyone knew anything about who the participants were & me being sharp shouted ‘Michael Caine, Stanley Baker & about 4000 Zulu warriors… the whole congregation just exploded in laughter

[@williammunson3615]

Superb documentary. Ego and underestimating the opponent are the two worst enemies in a battle or a war. Our military is guilty of the same mistakes. Custer is not the only example.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Chelmsford actually acted with caution when he went out to the aid of the cut off recon party. He made sure he took a strong force out, and he made sure he kept a strong force back at the camp and this was reinforced by Durnfords men. Chelmsford gave orders to Pulleine at Isandlwana to keep his forces drawn in and act only on the defensive. This is what Pulleine did do until Durnford arrived and ignored his orders. Durnford underestimated the Zulus.

[@sirridesalot6652]

@@lyndoncmp5751 It would have been interesting if the wagons had been lagered and if the troops had been deployed closer to the camp so that their lines would have been shorter.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@@sirridesalot6652 Well there weren't enough wagons to encircle the camp (the camp was a km wide) and they were being used for shuttle service for supplies from Rorkes Drift. There was an invasion to supply. British Army wagons were huge heavy things that took 20 men to manhandle into position. It would have taken forever to laager that camp, even if they had enough wagons. Yes they likely would have held out if Chelmsfords orders were followed. Pulleine followed those orders during the morning false alarm. Then Durnford arrived, began interfering then decided to go on the attack, dispersing forces out far and wide away from the camp, pressuring Pulleine to support him. Chelmsford's orders to keep the forces drawn in and act only on the defensive were totally ignored by Durnford. Sadly.

[@g.t.richardson6311]

same narrative different video

[@martenspitzner408]

@@lyndoncmp5751 Unfortunately Zulu Dawn alters this story a bit by putting Chelmsford into a rather bad spotlight.

[@OldWorldLad]

Proud of our lads there that day. Fought bravely at both battle sites. However, I'm not sure those same lads would have charged a Martini-Henry across an open field in broad daylight armed only with a spear. Those Zulu's deserve respect.

[@thisthat283]

Proud of Cultural rapists and murderers who were decimated by a far inferior force who only had sticks against a so called professional and modern army? hm.

[@jamesjohno1180]

They did have guns too? One in 3 had guns, they had gun trade through their lands years before because they where killing other tribes on that land

[@OldWorldLad]

@@jamesjohno1180prior to Isandlwana? 1/3 is exaggerated. The Zulu's may have had hundreds of muzzle loaders - with limited ammunition and powder - amongst them at the time of the battle, and of them few were marksmen of any level of proficiency. If one in ten could lay their hands on one I would be surprised. Once they had looted the battlefield that number jumps considerably, but the Martini's that they took were almost useless to them. Once the ammunition dried out they couldn't use them, as you can't improvise or scrounge with a Henry, it has a very particular cartridge that the Zulu's could not manufacture. Muzzle loaders, even as an inferior design, were more useful to them.

[@nanasdad100]

I think the Brits would charge. Sikh wars they charged guns with only bayonets etc

[@Sodonewithchaos]

Gross ‼️🤮. You are proud of colonialism and genocide ⁉️🤦🏼‍♀️. Spears against guns…yup really fair as well….🫡🇨🇦

[@SeanRCope]

Like the contemporary 1876 campaign on the US Plains against the Natives. This Campaign is almost exactly the same and with the same result. Fascinating.

[@mariadacre9647]

Yep both overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

[@darbyohara]

It’s fascinating the British didn’t learn from other western army loses

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@darbyohara The British learned after Isandlwana. It was the Zulus who didn't learn after Nyezane and Rorkes Drift. They kept making the same mistakes. Gingindlovu, Khambula.

[@jamesjohno1180]

The next day they where wiped out by 150 British soldiers when they again tried to surprise them but the soldiers already knew and obliterated them

[@jmw-qt2ih]

I had the privilege of visiting Islandwana and have to say it is an experience which is impossible to forget. We were given the full story by an expert whislt on the mountan itself and it was truly spectacular. We left with total respect for the zulus and it is without doubt the finest tour I have done anywhere in the world.

[@euanwaugh2492]

Thank you Timeline. I am currently reading Ian Knight's 'Zulu Rising'. Highly recommended.

[@brianlowe1947]

Indeed. Just finished reading it.

[@finbarrmcgrath1686]

It was definitely Peter O Toole’s fault.

[@MissMarchHare]

pretty sure it was Michael Caine's.

[@linguinatorschwartz9309]

It was definitely Peter O-Toole's fault. Them damn Irish will do anything to flummox the English.

[@Pew.Pew.poor.you.123]

No. Thank levar burton

[@MJM-BS3]

Wrong film. This is not Lawrence of Arabia.

[@finbarrmcgrath1686]

@@MJM-BS3 Zulu Dawn 1979, O’Toole played Lord Chelmsford. Sequel to Zulu which starred Micheal Caine….

[@jatzbethstappen9814]

Those involved were very brave. Every one of them. Both sides.

[@anthonytroisi6682]

My favorite line in "Zulu" is when Lt. Chard says, "The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day"." I see many parallels between the Battle of Little Bighorn and the Battle of Islandlwana.

[@outlet6989]

16:30 Those red flowers at the base of the memorial to the fallen says it all.

[@1crazypj]

Not many comments yet but for a 2002 documentary posted 7 hrs ago they are pretty sad. It's history people, learn from it don't repeat it

[@jamesjohno1180]

Noooo people want to be upset by it😂they never lived it and want to use it to victimise themselves or paint people in a bad light because they’re leftists who hate their own country but would never ever leave it and go see others countries or history😂they know that’s worse

[@deancox8634]

Clumsy documentary audio wise. A mistake to have battle sound effects drowning out the voice of the Zulu warrior giving his recollection. Frustrating.

[@dimitristsagdis7340]

what is it with the gunshots and chanting when Zulu warriors speak. We can hardly hear them.

[@CAROLUSPRIMA]

Ain’t that the truth.

[@ifv2089]

Them Zulu warriors don't half make a racket for sure

[@mikkelnpetersen]

This was also a reminder to the british empire, don't underestimate your enemy, just because they use iron spear and leather shield.

[@glosfishgb6267]

they had plenty of fire arms its a myth they never for 100 years the zulu nation had been trading with Europeans

[@lyndoncmp5751]

The Zulus were guilty of underestimating the British at Rorkes Drift, Gingindlovu and Khambula.

[@martynpope8218]

Within Canterbury Cathedral there's a plaque dedicated to Henry Degacher of the 24th Regiment who later went on to serve in other wars. Interestingly he was the older brother of one William Degacher who died in the fighting commanding one of the front line companies. Henry in fact was lucky to be out of camp that day.

[@Mossyz.]

Drinking a nice cup of Yorkshire Tea while watching this . :)

[@jasonmation]

It's so good to see both sides of the story as I have only ever heard of the Zulus being defeatedly by Michael Caine and Stanley Baker.

[@FrankMcDonnell-v1o]

That was the reason they awarded 10 VC's at Rorkes Drift, to distract the British public from the massive slaughter earlier that day. Rorkes Drift was a supply depot and they had ammunition supplies for the entire invading force and used it liberally. It's estimated the 126 soldiers fired 20,000 rounds during the 12 hour fight.

[@keithad6485]

Not all battles have to be won for one side to win the war. Brit lost many battles in WW2 before the Germans were forced to the 'negotiating table', Arnhem 1944 and the 1940 battles in northern france, tank battles prior to El Alamein in North Africa are examples. Same with Allies fighting the Japanese Imperial Army and Navy. It seems Lord Chelmsford learned about how his enemy conducted warfare with Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift so was better able to prepare his forces for the later battles. What became of Lord Chelmsford after peace was reinstated?

[@oldhippiejon]

He knew all about their battle tactics and larger of wagons before the battle, he was showing them no respect and thousands paid the price for his arrogance.

[@PhilMcCrackin-f3n]

I believe there was a solar eclipse that day in South Africa... for a period of time the whole battlefield was plunged into complete darkness... that would make more sense as to why the Zulus were able to get so close on an open field in the face of massed infantry volley fire. A few years later the Sudanese didnt even get within 800 metres of the British infantry squares and they were mounted on horses and camels so moved a lot faster than the Zulus. That Martini Henry is a devastating weapon... huge bullet, long range...1500 riflemen firing 12 rounds a minute on an open field.. do the math.. it would have been a hailstorm of lead being received by the massed Zulu ranks... there has to be something else other than ''Hubris'' to explain what went wrong on this day..

[@thestevezx7]

Another great documentary from 'Timeline' thanks😊

[@blitzkriegazteca642]

I 💯 % agree!

[@Dullborn]

I know that the Zulus were on home territory but 25, 000 is a large number of soldiers..did the Zulu army have a "quartermaster" and the means to supply a group this size, even comparatively minimally? Great series...

[@jamesjohno1180]

Kind of home territory they had gun trades through there long before this they where at war with the native people who live on that land, they killed all of them tribes so they could have the land, 4 thousand of the Zulu where wiped out by 150 British at the battle of rorkes drift after this battle

[@Juuk-D]

Yes

[@glosfishgb6267]

Isandlwana was a win for the zulus but at high cost they may have won but lost most of their best warriors they may have had a force of 60 thousand but that dont mean they were all elite they made up less than 10% of the total was some what a pyrrhic victory looseing their best warriors

[@marmadukegrimwig]

Ian Knight. The Man.

[@ArizonaJoeHines]

In the U.S., Isandlwana would be called a "butte".

[@fordwk]

They were warned by the Boers, but then again...they were holding them until the ammo slowed and the rifles Fouled up.

[@billballbuster7186]

No, it was not in any way a 'major defeat', it was at best a setback for Chelmsford's Center Column. The fact was that Chelmsford defeated the 35,000-50,000 Zulu army in just six months. Though Chelmsford was reinforced to 25,000 in April, logistics dictated that the 2nd Invasion force was little larger that the first at 17,000, but of these only 4,500 were needed at the final battle of Ulundi. It was a pointless war were the Zulu were massacred, some state over 10,000 dead. A war instigated by greedy little men behind the back of the British Government.

[@jd.3493]

You vote Democrat don’t you? 😂

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Like a taste of Singapore to come - total incompetence and arrogance.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Wrong on both counts.

[@marmadukegrimwig]

That’s a searing insight…

[@grapeshot]

The British underestimated their opponent.

[@ryanalexander3088]

Not the first time 😅 definitely not the last

[@lyndoncmp5751]

They underestimated the NUMBERS. Initial figure of Zulus in the hills to the north east were 4,000 to 7,000. Not 24,000.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

The Zulus underestimated the British at Rorkes Drift, Nyezane, Gingindlovu and Khambula.

[@mikehaws3187]

Splitting their forces. Not going into laager... Dumb commander. However he did learn from his errors and won the war

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Durnford was the main reason. He disregarded his own orders and those given to Pulleine. If he'd just got to the camp and acted in unison with Pulleine, acting strictly on the defensive, the disaster likely wouldn't have happened. No need to laager. There were a thousand gunmen there.

[@michaelcalland801]

@@lyndoncmp5751There’s been studies done on why the main firing line failed to hold. The Zulus had to cross 13 minutes of sustained fire to reach the line. The rapid fire of the Martini Henry rifle should’ve been enough to hold them off. There’s been questions about wether or not resupply Ammo was reaching the line but the metal peel off lids of boxes have been dug up all along the line so that# been debunked. Another theory is that the Martini - Henry rifle had a tendency to jam after 5 minutes of sustained fire due to dust, over heating, bad Ammo, etc. So there’s a theory out there that you had rifles jamming up & down the line which allowed the Zulus to penetrate & get behind the main firing line. Me personally I believe it was a combination of several factors which created a perfect storm for defeat. The splitting of forces, jamming rifles , slow resupply & a determined underestimated enemy.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@@michaelcalland801 But the British 24th Foot firing line did hold. The Zulu chest was not making any headway once it descended from the escarpment. The 24th stopped them. Even the Zulus said that. What appears to have happened was Durnford on the right flank at the donga ran out of ammo and he suddenly withdrew. The Zulu left horn then was able to rush forward unopposed towards the camp and Pulleine gave the order for the bugle to sound the retreat, otherwise the Zulu left horn would have got into the camp behind the 24th's backs. They then put up a firing withdrawal back to camp and the majority made it to the camp and Saddle. Over 3/4 of the 24th Foot were found on large or identifiable clusters in the camp and Saddle area. They couldn't have done this if they ran out of ammo on the firing line or their rifles jammed.* H Company withdrew over a kilometre mostly intact. It was in the camp and Saddle where their ammo finally ran out, after becoming isolated from the ammo wagons. *There was no reported significant gun jamming at Rorkes Drift, Gingindlovu, Khambula etc. At Rorkes, far more rounds per man were fired. Barrels did get hot and hands got burnt but jamming was not any big factor. Cheers.

[@kinvo1982able]

The fact that Britain 🇬🇧 believe they have the right to come a take all this land from the African people is insane. They were like ok labs all of this is out now so let’s cheer on

[@asimnawaz9256]

I think it was overconfidence of British column. 1500 Redcoats were hoping to easily overpower numerically superior Zulu Warriors. They might have hoped that initial burst of fire or casualties would force Zulus into retreat. But what they were not hoping was relentless charge of thousands of Zulus who kept on marching despite casualties. 1500 British soldiers killed nearly 3000 Zulus before losing their lives to the spears of remaining 17000 Zulu Warriors.

[@mohammedsaysrashid3587]

It was an informative and a great introduction by an amazing (time line) channel ...

[@hissyhonker220]

Forgive my ignorance here but is this the same Chelmsford that was with Ole Ragland and company in the Crimea?

[@glosfishgb6267]

Yes

[@glosfishgb6267]

Battles/wars Crimean War Indian Rebellion of 1857 1868 Expedition to Abyssinia Xhosa Wars Anglo-Zulu War

[@keithad6485]

Chelmsford was in India in 1857? What rank was he?

[@jurgenmostert7370]

Wow, I live in that same place called luneburg here in SA

[@robertkitchen6904]

"Look to your front ,mark your target when it comes ."

[@bigglesharrumpher4139]

Lack of decent reconnaissance and under-estimation of Zulu's.

[@colin25250]

Defeat was mainly the fault of Chelmsford who underestimated the 'heathen savages', ie the Zulus and was only in command because he came from a privileged background and not because he'd worked his way up like a proper soldier: but that was par for the course in Victorian times and, sadly, beyond too!!

[@sizwemkhabela324]

Oh Zulu uyasabeka!

[@joeroganjosh9333]

Get hold of E.A. Ritter’s book “Shaka Zulu” an excellent history by a ‘local’.

[@Acer_Maximinus]

The “native” narrator’s thick faux accent is too difficult to understand, and hear, over the music. The CC can’t even decipher it.

[@thewise3551]

Say what you like about the British, but they still had the most successful and powerful empire the world has ever seen. Much like the Roman empire it's impact and influence will reverberate for centuries to come.

[@keithad6485]

It seems to me the most profound and longest lasting result of the Brit empire is the spread of the English language.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@keithad6485 Plus democracy, modern human rights, English based laws/judiciary etc. Oh and sports like football and cricket 😉

[@HenryDallas-u7l]

No Empire last forever Rome, Ottoman, Greek, Persian, holy Roman.

[@jamesjohno1180]

And everything els we spread with! We where almost far better advanced than others with better systems etc there’s a reason we’re called Great Britain, but it seems we are losing that pride and history now and being painted in a negative light by our own and others who take parts of history and get upset about it, or even in our own country we have to worship others culture but you can’t show anything towards your own

[@arielfornari6595]

I am Latino & have admired everything British since childhood. British military history is one of my hobbies. I wish I could visit someday the Imperial War Museum. Greetings from the #Caribbean!

[@legitbeans9078]

Top tip. Skip to about 12 mins to avoid that irritating and pointless "history hit" ad

[@lonnietoth5765]

They went into Zulu land with people who fought the Zulu's before , right ? They should have know , how the Zulu's fought ( Horns of the Bull ) . Yet they were surprised when they were flanked ! They didn't larger lager the wagons , why ? Roman's always built a fortification for this reason .

[@thomastammaro693]

"Everybody has a plan. Until they get punched in the mouth, " Mike Tyson

[@benediktmorak4409]

with their arrogance from the officers, - we will show them heathens-, it was no surprise. but in the end, with shields and assegais the Zulus and the rest could not win against rifles and cannons.

[@abdullahkarim4678]

Yes Today we will Finished Shakk a Revenge

[@abdullahkarim4678]

Arrogant Slaved Masters

[@abdullahkarim4678]

Talk all you want Allah allowed you to Lose Thieves of Africa Now it’s time Bring Gold Doamonds Back artifacts Weak People of History you brag Document what you did

[@philwilliams2505]

Would of been worth watching but for adverts ...had to turn it off

[@darbyohara]

Chalmsfords incompetence

[@lyndoncmp5751]

You mean Durnford's? Chelmsford wasn't there at the battle and he did not make the tactical errors. That was Durnford, the senior commander at the battle.

[@KernowekTim]

I bet Thesiger lied, denied and deflected after this, the second worse defeat in English military history, after the destruction of the Dragoons, Hussars and Lancers at Balaclava in Crimea.

[@SixOhFive]

Another banger! 🎉

[@marmadukegrimwig]

Ian Castle is Dracula…

[@drgeoffangel5422]

Not what caused one of the colonial age's worst defeats for Britain?, but who? Lord Chelmsford that's who, when he split his command and weakened it! He did a Custer, split his command, without having a clue how big, and where the enemy was!

[@pauljones7064]

An Australian politician hit the nail on the head....every European country was wanting an empire 😮...let's face it the English were light years away from doin it...say the belgians

[@pauljones7064]

Light years ahead of everyone...😂😂...Romans made it fun

[@TheNortonio]

Once the guns were useless the next best thing (spears) took the advantage.

[@muddyhotdog4103]

True, that and sheer overwhelming numbers as well.. Although the rifles had bayonets which were last ditch spears too in a sense; but the Zulus had better melee weapons along with shields that were better when closing the gap face to face, and were trained in that specific type of warfare.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

The Zulus hated closing with a row or square of British bayonets.

[@homerfj1100]

The Zulus were fantastic. Wtf were the Brits doing there in the first place?

[@rnies6849]

I hardly understood one word of the zulu narrators

[@walkietalkie1666]

What caused it? Sheer arrogance!

[@mileristic2084]

SHAKA ZULU great King 👑 on ZULU nation ... Walter Müler 001 🇩🇪 ...

[@g.t.richardson6311]

London bm this is his entire life trolling Zulu videos

[@kakandecharlse8548]

We're these really wars?!

[@muddyhotdog4103]

No, they were picnics in the park

[@danielbowkett1489]

If one nation fights another nation, its war

[@angloaust1575]

The gun wasnt much help Prone to jamming and overheating better to have been issued with swords And shields!

[@keithad6485]

IF you are talking about the .45 cal Martini Henry rifle, are you sure about this. Post battle reports of this rifle in use during the Battle for Rorke's Drift describe some of the rifles glowing a dull red from the heat created from the rapid firing yet still operating.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

No significant reports of the Martini Henry rifle jamming in any of the various battles of the 1879 Anglo Zulu War.

[@becauseican6815]

hi

[@chrisdfx1]

It's unfortunate the Zulus couldn't invade Britain and do the same thing to every person on that island.

[@muddyhotdog4103]

Boo hoo ;)

[@notmaireelneim]

The Zulus put on a good show at home, but they were never very successful in the away round.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

He says while conversing in the English language via English inventions 😂.

[@AndreyBogoslowskyNewYorkCity]

#Gravitationalism ismy own #new #trend in #arthistory #Bogoslowsky using/controlling #gravity #wow

[@UnIimited_Power]

Shortage of tea!

[@keithad6485]

Most uncivilized

[@KangaKucha]

The battle was a lose due to the leadership being stupid, but the British won the war overall. Wish the frist Boer war was more significant in having Dutch beat British out, even if historically the 2nd war in which Britain won but now with help of its dominans like Canada and Australia :) If England/Britain needs a hand, well here it is! (1/2 finger(s) only lol) 😂

[@europa1387]

UK, Australia, NZ, Canada will always defend each other they share the same blood.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

"The battle was a lose due to the leadership being stupid" I wouldn't say Durnford (the senior commander at Isandlwana) was stupid, but he was certainly gung no, reckless and over confident. He also failed to confer and act in unison with Pulleine after the battle began.

[@teridacktaljones4553]

🦝

[@rockangel917]

British arrogance and their failure to fortify their positions and send out scouting parties to ascertain zulu positions got them killed. Like napoleon said don't separate your forces in enemy territory!!!

[@thisthat283]

Lack of basic values, lack of respect for culture and lack of professionalism in the old British Military establishment caused it

[@klasv7174]

what a joke to call the British Empire the greatest empire the world has ever known lol, compared to Rome its nothing.

[@healthaton]

As evil as it was it was actually more widespread and vastly richer than Rome, there's a reason why the city of London is still the preeminent financial centre on the planet. The British really did elevate stealing resources from far away lands to an art.

[@KernowekTim]

Fool.

[@rnies6849]

really stupid. The sound of the battle is making the voice of the zulu narrator unhearable. zero points.

[@dyejohn1905]

Arrogance by the British.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Just as the Zulus displayed arrogance at Rorkes Drift, Khambula etc?

[@rodgerhargoon3402]

Place the bible in your hand and tell u to read it...and before you can shout jack Robinson your beautiful land is stolen from under your feet 😂😂😂😂😂

[@jamesjohno1180]

These same couple of thousand Zulu where as good as wiped out by 150 British soldiers… Some reason people think Zulu where just innocent people with no guns on their own land but that’s not the case😂they stole that land of other tribes and they had a gun trade years before so they where pretty much all armed albeit with not as good guns but…still armed nonetheless and the same men where beaten the next day by 150 British Irish welsh and Scottish men when they tried to launch a surprise attack again but the lads already knew and dropped them Rule Britannia🇬🇧

[@michaelfrost4584]

Just typical arrogance and lm better than you upper-class mentality from the English and British class. Even today nothing has really changed as Im speaking as an ex Australian Military Veteran how has worked with them.

[@sparkleybitz]

When did you join? I joined in the 80's and made my pledge before a portrait of Queen Elizabeth, mind you all the stuff i did was in the jungle of the Asia Pacific, before the term "terrorist" was common. We were focused on arms traffickers, we believed what we were doing was for the best. Left in 88. Your experience must have been very different. Onya mate.

[@michaelfrost4584]

@@sparkleybitz Joined 1975, 8yrs R.A.N 12YRS Army.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Durnford wasn't upper class English. Durnford was from Ireland. It was Durnford who ignored his own orders to just get to the camp, and the orders given to Pulleine to keep his forces drawn in and act only on the defensive. Durnford decided to go on the attack and chase after 'retiring' Zulus, forcing Pulleine to support his rash arrogant venture. Irish arrogance then?

[@mickmacgonigle5021]

Irish to be sure😂

[@donkravis2385]

The Zulu’s are seen as the ‘enemy’, for attempting to liberate their land. Great history, but leaning toward the side of the colonizers.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

The Zulus took that land off others. Perhaps you weren't aware of that.

[@donkravis2385]

@@lyndoncmp5751 It was the Zulu’s land in the first instance, but after constant exploitation of the land and politics, this lead to Zulu’s protecting their land. The British handed ultimatum after ultimatum, constantly undermining and attempting to unarm the Zulu warriors, perhaps you weren’t aware of that.

[@donkravis2385]

Internal battles for land between African clans predates the arrival of foreign explorers in Africa.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

@@donkravis2385 Actually it WASN'T the Zulus land in the first instance. The Zulus were Bantu invaders from the north. They took that land off others who were there before them, and continued to expand. Read up on the Mfecane.

[@mickmacgonigle5021]

It sure wasn't englands . Are you aware of that?​@@lyndoncmp5751