Israel’s Self-Destructive Policies | Robert Wright & Stephen Walt

[@Nonzero]

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[@DeadManWalking4574]

Massive failure not talking about the origin of zionism and Rotchilds, Stalins role to establish Israhell etc.

[@MrJDCohen]

It's so weird to have a conversation like this without acknowledging that American politicians have their own interests and motivations for supporting Israel's military actions. I believe there are several reasons America and others are invested in the current violence. One reason is the vast sums of money and innovation in the military industrial complex among other things

[@michaelbanyai4685]

The USA tries to play all sides.

[@treznicek]

I have been dumbfounded for decades by the lack of acknowledgment of this important point. The profits from American weapons “sales” (more like a money laundering scam where US tax payers directly subsidize US weapons firms) are just that, American. Zooming out just a bit reveals that AIPAC is essentially an opaque shill for US military profits and the corrupt politicians they support, rather for than for any supposed security here which increasingly goes up in smoke as US weapons pour in.

[@johannhamann681]

Stop. You are embarrassing yourself

[@AlexCoury-sl7xf]

It’s called bribes and extortion. The oldest tools in the book.

[@michaelbanyai4685]

@@AlexCoury-sl7xf So you the Lebanese, one of the most knowledgeable in bribes, you are beaten in this discipline? You are legendary... I can not imagine that... it must be something Else.

[@hichic4390]

Displacing people from their homes and homelands is not a violent act? Right?

[@hmson4378]

Why is nobody ever mentioning that the 'special relationship' with Israel means there is no treaty/agreement? And: why Israel and it's proponents are so adamantly opposed to the relationship with Israel ever being formalised in the shape of a treaty/agreement?

[@mulchishappy]

Great question. I've heard that pro-Israel types fear formalizing the special relationship because it would reduce its flexibility. But what that actually means is never explored

[@cpg-fx7ew]

What about unconstitutional anti-BDS laws in 38 US states?

[@khubza8999]

The commitment to GREATER ISRAEL is NOT “accidental” … the territories seized in 1967 were precisely what settlers building a “Jewish state” needed for the state to acquire “religiously- based legitimacy.”The West Bank, where most Palestinians lived, was the site of most Jewish religious sites. Jabotinsky, the ideological founder of Likud in the 1920s was committed to the territorial vision of a “Greater Israel.”

[@tariqkhonji6556]

Yes but they also knew it was a strategic mistake… that is why they didn’t continue expanding in 48. Ben Gurion came out again it. They had debates in the cabinet about it. But the impulse to take it was too great for the reasons you stated.

[@AS_HE_IS_SO_R_WE]

Thanks NonZero... you share very interesting open minded and insightful discussions more people should hear.

[@constantquestioning4010]

Prof Walt: a genuine scholar, a man of courage and integrity Merci 🙏🏼🕯🕯🙏🏼 Paris

[@kimharris8440]

Have you all forgotten, the land is called Palestine. The Israeli regime began occupying Palestine beginning only in 1948.

[@treznicek]

Did you forget that Palestinians were forfeiting land long before 1948??? That Israeli cities of like Tel Aviv were established in 1909? That there were multiple Israeli universities established and fully functioning long before 1948?? Why don’t people know history?!?

[@AlexCoury-sl7xf]

@@treznicekyea and Palestine is a lot older than 1909. DUH!

[@VCatCrusader]

Zionist propaganda is not history. 🇺🇦🐾🦘🐨🦘🐾🇵🇸

[@sarahfern7128]

Vote against genocide: Vote Green

[@deselby6669]

@@sarahfern7128 A wasted vote..

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: ▪︎Trojan gained acceptance into castle ▪︎Destroyed it from within ▪︎Religions can't be infiltrated through deceit by Occultists ▪︎Mislead/Corrupted from within to mutual Destruction?

[@shahryarkabir]

19:51 incredibly naive to think Blinken has an idea in his head about this. There is no good reason and he doesn’t care about whether it improves America’s interests. You guys know better than that.

[@Zidana123]

The problem with the "it's for your own good" argument is that it must originate from within one's trusted friend circles, that the person making it must be first beyond all possibility of reproach, such that one knows it's 100% for sure not an attempt at subversion. Otherwise it will instantly be disregarded. That is to say, on an individual level it might work for one's own beloved friends. But on a political level? Why would anyone risk it? Do YOU trust politicians?

[@kieranoconnor4334]

Excellent, excellent, excellent........love it when a serious discussion of issues like this happens in such a cogent, well informed and clear manner!

[@MG-ye1hu]

Exellent conversation. Stephen Walt is one of the rare individuals who look at this conflict rationally and objectively.

[@malaydhar917]

Very nice discussion. Thanks both of you. 🌺💚🙏-bmd

[@victorsciamarelli7464]

A superb conversation. My only disagreement was that Prof Walt said the JCPOA was in Israel’s interest but Netanyahu fought against it which doesn’t add up. The JCPOA was a good agreement for the US but, ultimately, it would allow Iran to become a normal country. That is, eventually sanctions would be lifted, foreign investments would flow to Iran, and Iran would become both respectable and much stronger economically and potentially closer to the US. Israel makes little effort to make peace or friends in the region. It prefers weak neighbors as a means to bolster its security and keep the unconditional support of the US. Israel can handle Iran’s nuclear program by assassinating Iranian nuclear scientists, or sabotaging Iran’s nuclear facilities. From Netanyahu's point of view, however, the JCPOA was not in Israel’s interest.

[@treznicek]

If it’s not clear by now to all, Netanyahu cares little about Israel’s security. The supposed Iranian threat - imminent for 40 years now - is a useful part of Netanyahu’s self-serving rhetoric that destroys all hope of Israel remaining a safe place to live.

[@megaohmaudio5963]

Impressive guest. I appreciated his practical approach and his knowledge of the history. I would love to hear his thoughts as the conflict changes over the coming months. Ideally, he would be a semi regular guest.

[@sambaxrock]

What an amazing and courageous conversation! Thank you for posting it!

[@shohjahonahadov122]

I deeply admire prof Steven Walt and his deep knowledge

[@MYTAccount]

*Good discussion!*

[@nicolaasmalgas8348]

Israel wanted to vmget out of the Nuclear because then there is no bogey man in the form of Iran. The nuclear deal provided security.

[@khubza8999]

“Palestinian resistance is completely legitimate so long as it follows the laws of war”@ 39:47. Does Israel have any obligations to NOT commit war crimes according to the “laws of war”?? Who is holding Israel to account? All of those nations instrumental in crafting those laws uphold unconditionally “Israel’s right to self defense”….does that “right” extend against the people Israel occupies militarily?

[@orangutanfan3179]

Did Walt say that Israel's conduct was legitimate or defensible? No.

[@khubza8999]

@@orangutanfan3179 It is DEFINITELY implied in the careful way he frames the argument. It may be just a bias in the discipline where, by definition,STATES have a legitimate monopoly on the use of violence. He adjusts the frame a little later, but it is there. Does he ever use the words “state terror”? I’d have to go back l and listen, but I don’t think he did. He defends”international law” but if international law is not enforced and we ( the “international community”) constantly let our allies off the hook, then what good is it?

[@hg_rebase]

​@@khubza8999- Well for one, you'd be seeing wars of the past, with firebombing & 20k-100k dead in a day without these nations following what they drafted. People are daft if they think Israel is truly not targeting at all lol

[@PartiallyT]

​@@khubza8999 they always do that brother , their leaders see us as that experiment of the train and ppl tired to the rail way so unfortunately they have to k11l us . Meanwhile making a movie about one person and his suffering.

[@ginger22ly]

Excellent episode!

[@unfixablegop]

Stephen Walt is great. Sanity at last.

[@1961Bullet]

On the left, I hope?

[@Nicer2BNice]

In my opinion both Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer are exactly correct in everything they’ve had to say about Israel. I have a clear idea as to what Joe Biden could have and should have done immediately after 10/8/23. If anyone is interested in what I have to say I’ll take the time to articulate my ideas and the arguments associated with the strategy I think would have been the best, most productive way forward.

[@jenkins7459]

What is this: a cliffhanger.

[@theodevaney5781]

Please continue

[@PauloAdriano-zo2ng]

​@@theodevaney5781 Don't encourage it. This ham's in search of an audience. 🐷🐖🐽

[@ibrahimanan1874]

Well, this educated analysis of the invasion of Lebanon in 1982 to expel the PLO, which led to the emergence of Hezbollah, which poses a bigger problem for Israel today, which means the failure of Israel's strategy? This is partially true, but it is generally and deeply wrong.. because it assumes that the emergence of Hezbollah after the expulsion of the PLO from Lebanon was not Israel's intention, but rather resulted from Israel's policy.. The truth is that Israel deliberately created Hezbollah as a religious sectarian party instead of the secular PLO, just as Israel deliberately supported Hamas as a Sunni fundamentalist movement as an alternative to the secularism of the PLO.. These phenomena were not collateral damage in Israel's war on the PLO, but rather they were the goal, meaning that Israel's strategy was successful because Hezbollah and Hamas destroyed their societies with religious sectarian division

[@lawrenceclyons]

I thought you were trying to help my twitter account considering your Evolution of God book was so entertaining I read it during a Robert Trivers seminar.

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

It didn't 'conquer' those territories, at all. It illegally occupied and annexed them.

[@MoeMa4]

THANK YOU!!!

[@BassamHamra]

What will be good to (israel) is firstly to recognize that they stole the land of Palestine and kicked out most of its inhabitants. After this recognition, they would go to palestinians to find out a way out of this dilemma in the good of both.

[@annikamyren3026]

"War of independence" ? It was etniccleansing :the nakba !!!!

[@MrSchoudhury2]

This man is highly knowledgeable about the conflict. Very good interview and insight..👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

[@vijjreddy]

how about last year this time, Israel had same policies, it more or less acted the same way. how about ten years before, same.. Israwl was self-destructing for the past 75 years or so, and will keep on doing the same for the next 750 years... no use in talking about morals to Israel or Germany or Uk or USA... and in the end it would be occupying entire syria and lebanon and jordan and entire sinai peninsula...and world would still be talking about Morals

[@MoeMa4]

Indigenous resisting occupation is now "radical"

[@thairk]

Great program!

[@UTubeISphere]

Re the occupation of the West Bank - from 41:51 - in 1967, even if there was no master plan in 1967, the implications were already clear to Israeli polymath Yeshayahu Leibowitz in 1968 article 'The Territories': 'The Arabs would be the working people and the Jews the administrators, inspectors, officials, and police-mainly secret police. A state ruling a hostile population of 1.5 to 2 million foreigners would necessarily become a secret-police state, with all that this implies for education, free speech and democratic institutions. The corruption characteristic of every colonial regime would also prevail in the State of Israel. The administration would suppress Arab insurgency on the one hand and acquire Arab Quislings on the other. There is also good reason to fear that the Israel Defense Forces, which has been until now a people's army, would, as a result of being transformed into an army of occupation, degenerate, and its commanders, who will have become military governors, resemble their colleagues in other nations.' Miko Peled's father Mattityahu, member of the General Staff in 1967, if I recall correctly, saw it in the same way and therefore advocated for the occupation to become a source for genuine peace.

[@oniongingertomato2216]

That is prescient

[@Nina-q9y4p]

Even the intellectuals are biased towards the apartheid state.

[@SammyAbby-es8iz]

great coverage thank you

[@Kennyaj123]

Missing the link to overtime btw

[@cpg-fx7ew]

You have to pay to get access.

[@Kennyaj123]

@@cpg-fx7ew The link is missing, I already understand that there is a price to pay for my derangement.

[@cpg-fx7ew]

@@Kennyaj123 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmGuaHhtjdJgnLM

[@tofa2121]

AMAZING Realistic Strategic discourse!!! Simplified, so it may be possible for the "Uninformed and Misinformed" American Population to Understand as well as to make it to the minds of the Few Astute America Politicians remaing in this country!who for decaded have been working against American SELF interests in the Levant/MENA/Middle East Longer Term, while Healthcare, Housing, Transportation, Digital Infrastructure is falling behind and COSTING the USA people more and more economically with TRILLIONS wasted in Afghanistan, Iraq, (Vietnam before), Ukraine hundreds of Billions will be wasted? which the American People CANNOT afford in the 21st Century!!!!! 👏 👍😊🙏 (and SORRY for any TYPOS! You get the Main Idea 😉)

[@THENLWEBBER]

“Which is why what Hamas did on Oct. 7 is wrong”… 🤨How? Hamas enacted a military operation on Oct. 7 and intentionally targeted military sites for battle and hostage taking, therefore the operation was a form of legitimate resistance, unlike what the guest implies. It is not Hamas’ fault that Israel 1) uses its citizens as human shields by mandating military service for everyone, arms their citizens and places their settlement Kibbutzim along the border, 2) allowed a musical festival of “civilians” and tourists along the border and 3) has such a weak army and defense system that Hamas was able to overtake multiple sites for days after Oct.7 opening it up to non-affiliated actors crossing the apartheid wall and targeting “civilians”. We know that most of the hostages taken that day were military and Hamas has requested ceasefire and returns of elderly and civilian captives. Additionally we don’t know how many of the 1200 people Israel killed that day using weapons that Hamas doesn’t have and we cannot attribute every death to Hamas. If you think that resistance of the occupied is justified then don’t delegitimize the resistance effort on Oct.7 by mischaracterizing it.

[@MR-dm1gx]

The sate was founded with extreme violance.

[@reddituser321]

Never really thought much about the common leftist/pacifist position that boils down to “Terrorism is caused by the resistance to it.” Nuance it and wax poetic all you like. Strong men will create the conditions for your continued discussions, which I greatly enjoy!

[@hassenhassen5342]

LES RUSSES ET LES CHINOIS DOIVENT ENVOYER DES SOLDATS À #GAZA !!!!!!!!!!

[@ermiasd2695]

Interesting how Bob completely abandoned his coverage of Ukraine war on his podcast

[@champagnebulge1]

Not true

[@FreddieGamingHD]

There isn’t much happening on the front line that’s why. (Aside from the recent Kursk invasion)

[@batuach100]

🎉🎉🎉

[@unfixablegop]

Robert Wright shouldn't have casually thrown in NATO expansion as another example of hubris. Because even if hubris was involved, you can't fairly ignore that, unlike Israel's actions, NATO expansion was about giving freedom to the oppressed. So if you only have a half-sentence, better just leave it unsaid.

[@orangutanfan3179]

Clinton was lobbied strongly by the US arms industry for the first round of NATO expansion. I think that was a more prominent concern than "giving freedom to the oppressed".

[@batuach100]

🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@ArslanOtcular]

Johnson Robert Perez Kimberly Davis Timothy

[@TheFlameoftheWest]

Long live Israel !

[@theodevaney5781]

Good luck with that.

[@ritornelloandrefrain]

Get your head out of your ass.

[@BrendaHeeligan]

BDS! Palestine forever!

[@midnightdl]

Israel's expansionism= NATO expansion, sure, Bob Never stop hating on the free people of eastern Europe, it's your shtick.

[@itsikmiz]

It is a nice episode but some remarks: This conversation assumes that given Israel will, then peace would have come. Facts are that the opposite is true. The core issue is and was the refusal of Palestinians to accept the rights of Jews for a state in any part of the land, they reject any partition offer and will only settle for the river to the sea. That's why they did not accept the Clinton parameters, they could not accept that one state would be Jewish and wanted to flaud it with refugees. That is why the fight Zionism. This conversation assumes that the Palestinians are passive and don't have any agenda.

[@AB-db4df]

Itsikmiz: why shouldn't the Palestinians have an agenda? It is their land.

[@itsikmiz]

@@AB-db4df this is my criticism for this episode. The have an agenda and this agenda prevents peace and reconciliation.

[@hammerhead2362]

@@itsikmizmost Israeli governments of my lifetime and I’m in my upper 20s are not serious about pursuing their peace either. They have their own agenda. Hence why bibi has been covertly supporting Hamas over fateh for decades. It’s why they’ve constantly built settlements on areas anyone knows would have to go to the Palestinian state in any potential political solution to the conflict. So spare me with the one side wants peace the other doesn’t. Both sides want peace but mostly only on their terms, which is why it has never happened. And over time this has jaded people who otherwise would’ve been pro negotiated peace into making maximalist demands

[@itsikmiz]

@@hammerhead2362 I agree that Israel becoming more right wing, but, as I said, this is not the core issue. The core issue is the rejection of a Jewish state in any part of the land. In the last ~20 years we had: Sharon government that did the disengagement. Olmert government that offered the most extreme offer to Abas, and Abas did not respond, he did said to Condolisa Rise that he can not say to 4 million people that they are not refugees, aka they can not end the conflict. Bennet&Lapid government which had for the first time Arab party in the government.

[@itsikmiz]

@@hammerhead2362 I recommend you watch podcasts with Einat Wift and ones with Haviv Retig Gur.

[@johns.7297]

Why is war against Hamas unwi9nnable? The United States dislodged the Taliban, at least for a number of years.

[@Base612]

The Taliban are now running Afghanistan. Is it really this hard for you to answer your own question?

[@deselby6669]

Palestinians are fighting for their land for nearly a Century...Brutalised.Persecuted.Murdered ..for decades......

[@PauloAdriano-zo2ng]

And who's in charge of Afghanistan now? 🤔😉😎

[@johns.7297]

@@PauloAdriano-zo2ng Yes, this country excels at seizing defeat from the clutches of victory. Plainly, democracy did not have a snowball's chance in hell in that country.

[@lourak613]

Are you going to start with that "Israel Lobby" thing? Well - there has to be one strongest Lobby - right? Why shouldn't that be Israel? What rules would you use to determine that? Just asking...

[@GardenerGeorge]

Foreign states “ lobbying “ is a little different than a labor union or business association “ lobbying. “ . Money from corporations and wealthy citizens is bad and counterproductive to a functioning government as we can see by the results , but a foreign country spending millions to buy influence so they can reap billions in aid should be blatantly unacceptable .

[@lamegalectora]

These guys talk mostly sheer rubbish 🤮🤮🤮

[@cpg-fx7ew]

What do you disagree with?

[@ritornelloandrefrain]

Thanks for nothing -- your complaint is vacuous & entirely unsubstantiated.

[@joelturley4847]

Keep up the excellent work Israel 💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱💪🇮🇱

[@ritornelloandrefrain]

Keep up the willful ignorance & belligerence 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡