Issues in the Seventh-Day Adventist Church

[@veravirgil6851]

I am so highly appreciative! for this video! and I wasn't looking for it. But when God leads the way, He'll take you where you need to GO!! all I try, and do is to let him lead the way. It's Safety: life Thanks So very much, You Tube, you do a marvelous! Job in your sphere, of Technology. ...

[@norallaniguez7706]

I suggest that parents read The Adventist Home and Child Guidance to lead parents to minister to their children from infancy or even before getting married to prepare a home in heaven here on earth. Prepare families for heaven.

[@sasquatchmeridian3094]

Nora LLaniguez : what does reading a book profit, if the words only fall on stony ground?

[@donzivanov812]

How u know what is going in Loma linda

[@sbcburgos2300]

@@sasquatchmeridian3094 You must be one of those half glass empty type folks. Reading a good book is never a replacement for a solid God fearing parental guidance to children, but it can be a good supplement for it

[@sasquatchmeridian3094]

SBC Burgos: Actually, am more of one of 'my cup runneth over' types. : )

[@sbcburgos2300]

@@sasquatchmeridian3094 I couldn't tell from your previous post. It came off as judgmental

[@johncourt3451]

Issues? Issues? Sorry folks, there are soooh many so called issues that I suggest the lot be dismantled and a new start be made. However, you and I know that this is never going to happen. SDAs are never going to give up their folie de grandeur. Thank heaven for the former SDA s like Dave Ratzlaff or Colleen Tinker, plus plus. Let the latter lead you out of the cultic bondage or alternatively prevent you from joining.

[@jamessona3684]

Brothers and sisters in Christ remember that few follow the road that is narrow and long but huge crowd follow the road that is easy and broad. What matters is the end of each. From Carol India

[@TheCominghome]

The SDA church does NOT serve or worship the same God as EGW and the pioneers did in their day, so why do all these thing surprise you? it's not the SDA church anymore, simple as that, that's just a registered business name now days.

[@janetdavidson8798]

Is that SDA hospitals have been performing abortions for 50 years ?

[@rexrecumbent]

@@janetdavidson8798 I have heard that........sad isn't it, murder on their heads now....

[@rubenberumen11]

good info thanks for sharin pr priebe

[@457christiaan]

ruben bravo little flock wats this kzbin.info/www/bejne/any3nI1uh7mirsk

[@rogermetzger7335]

Can someone please tell me what you think are the most important similarities and the most important differences between LdS (aka Mormons) and adventists? Please stick to your perception of those differences/similarities and avoid addressing whether one or the other or both groups are “wrong”. To those who attempt answer the question: I would appreciate it if you would tell me how you identify your own religion or, if you are a member of a Christian denomination, what your denominational affiliation is. Thanks.

[@Gnoff123]

Hi Roger Some beliefs held in common between SDA and LdS are - Baptism by immersion - Focus on health - Tithing - To some extend the gift of prophecy to the church in the current age. Som major differances are 1) The view of the soul. Mormons believe that people pre-existed with God in paradise as immortal souls. One of the reasons for creation was to give them a body. Adventists belive that the soul is mortal and can die. They believe that death is a sleep contrary to many mainstream Christian denominations who believe the soul goes to heaven when the person dies. Adventist believe in a ressurrection where everyone will get a new body and then go to heaven. 2) LdS believes that Adam and Eve's fall was planned by God and a necessity. SDA believes it only brought destruction and nothing positive. 3) SDA worship on the sabbath while the LdS worship on sundays. 4) Adventist follow "sola scriptura" meaning that they only build doctrines on the Bible. E. G. White is just supporting the Bible but is never the source for doctrine. Mormons use both the Bible and the book of mormon to formulate their doctrines I myself am a Seventh day Adventist. I hope the presentation of this has not been to biased and that you found it helpful. What is your background and why did you ask the question?

[@rogermetzger7335]

Gnoff123 Hi Roger Some beliefs held in common between SDA and LdS are - Baptism by immersion - Focus on health - Tithing - To some extend the gift of prophecy to the church in the current age. Som major differances are 1) The view of the soul. Mormons believe that people pre-existed with God in paradise as immortal souls. One of the reasons for creation was to give them a body. Adventists belive that the soul is mortal and can die. They believe that death is a sleep contrary to many mainstream Christian denominations who believe the soul goes to heaven when the person dies. They then believe in a ressuraction where everyone will get a new body and then go to heaven. 2) LdS believes that Adam and Eve's fall was planned by God and a necessity. SDA believes it only brought destruction and nothing positive. 3) SDA worship on the sabbath while the LdS worship on sundays. 4) Adventist follow "sola scriptura" meaning that they only build doctrines on the Bible. E. G. White is just supporting the Bible but is never the source for doctrine. Mormons use both the Bible and the book of mormon to formulate their doctrines I myself am a Seventh day Adventist. I hope the presentation of this has not been to biased and that you found it helpful. What is your background and why did you ask the question? I asked the question because I want to know how other people than LdS and SdA perceive the similarities and differences. You are the only one to respond, however, so I’ll go ahead and divulge more than I did initially. My mother’s mother was a Seventh-day Adventist. It wasn’t until after my grandmother died that my mother told me if she hadn’t met people in college whose religion was “very different” from that of her mother, she would almost certainly not have continued to call herself an adventist and almost certainly wouldn’t have married an adventist. That was in the 1960s. In 1982, my wife and I moved from Iowa to Utah. It wasn’t long before I discovered that many of the LdS in Utah had been told that “the Adventist Church was created by LdS who decided to not only read the Word of Wisdom but actually live by it.” (Virtually the same wording by each of the LdS who told me that.) There’s not a shred of truth to that story but it was a kind of left-handed compliment. They thought of adventists as being “better” (at least in that one regard) than the average LdS. Another thing we learned about the LdS was that they didn’t consider themselves protestants. They call themselves “restorationists” based on the doctrine that “the gospel has been restored through Joseph Smith and his successors”. When some of the LdS in Utah discovered I was an adventist, they put their arms around me can called me “brother”. Sally and I lived in Utah until 2007. We spent much of our time attempting to dispel the myth that the SdA organization was an offshoot of the LdS Church. Believing that protestant principles were steps toward the advent movement, we promoted protestant principles diligently in Utah. Imagine our surprise when, in 2008, I had adventists tell me that they weren’t protestants! Were they? Well, let’s see: If they place more emphasis on behavior criteria for denominational membership than on the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone, they certainly aren’t going to be perceived as protestants. If they quote Ellen White as the final authority in matters of faith and practice (as some adventists do), they certainly aren’t going to be perceived as protestants. If they refer to an organization as “the church”, they certainly aren’t going to be perceived as protestants. Sally and I believe it is appropriate for ANY religious organization to have behavior criteria for certain forms of membership but not as criteria for Christian fellowship. Our denominational affiliation is Seventh-day Adventist but our religion (the sum of those beliefs, practices and prohibitions that pertain to our concept of the highest powers of the universe) is biblical Christianity. To us, those are two VERY different things. My mother died in the 1980s so I can’t ask her but I think those were some of the differences between her mother's religion and that of her voice teacher at EMC and his brother, Fred, whom she married. My grandmother’s religion was institutional. Ours is personal. We think (or would prefer to think) of the SdA organization as an assoication of like-minded individuals dedicated to a message that was re-emphasized in the 1830s and early ‘40s and is just as relevant today as it was then. After my mother died, a couple who had been members of a congregation where my parents had been members came to where my dad was living with us. They knocked on the door and I answered. They expressed their condolences in a way I consider to be significant. One of them said, “If anyone ever deserved heaven, it was your mother.” Under the circumstances, I didn’t want to argue with them so I just said, “I don’t think it works that way” and went to find my dad. The visitors had come primarily to see him anyway. That utter failure to understand protestant principles is not unique to adventists. I once had a Lutheran tell me, “I know there are things I must do if I don’t want to burn in hell.” (I later obtained a copy of Luther’s Small Catechism from a Lutheran minister to give to the Lutheran I had met. The minister marked some passages he thought might be of help.) It is becoming increasingly difficult for me to refer to myself as a Seventh-day Adventist as it becomes increasingly obvious that the majority of non-adventists and even significant numbers of the members of the denomination think of Seventh-day Adventists as being no more protestant than LdS are. Roger Metzger Milo, Maine

[@Gnoff123]

Hi again Roger Thank you for your answer. I think you have run into "the great contorversy" of our church, if you don't mind me phrasing it like that ;) I cannot comment to much on the similarities between LdS and SDA but I can give a brief overview of how I understand the conflict it seems you are describing. There are two major groups in adventism today. Most often they can be seperated by the interpretation of Revelation 14:1-5. The first group believes that the 144,000 mentioned here is a litteral number, of a generation that has attained a perfect and sinless life. The pastor, in the video above, seems to support this. This is the smaller of the two groups. The other group believe that the number is symbolic. They believe that the perfect generation is not necessary since Jesus has handled the sin problem on the cross. The first group has a great focus on the rightousness of God and also a particular focus on the law. It is very likely that theology from this group influenced the people saying "If anyone ever deserved heaven, it was your mother". The second group focuses more on the grace and love of God. They are closer linked with the other protestants. This is still the majoriity of the church and also what most of the theological teaching institutes support. Both "rightousness" and "love" are very important aspects and it is impossible I belong to the second group. Since the video strongly supports the first group I would prefer not to go to deep into detail of my personal critique of their views. Debates between the two groups often end in "mud throwing" and "name calling" were both sides accuse the other side for not being Adventist or even non-Christians. Please tell me if I have completely misunderstood the topic. Kind regards Nicklas

[@rogermetzger7335]

Nicklas, I’m 73 and my memory is failing fast but I don’t remember seeing your reply until now. My wife and I just moved to a new location. Our daughter has already noticed a Seventh-day Adventist Church building somewhere within thirty miles of here. I don’t know how soon I will attempt to make the trip but my experience has been that most of the adventist congregations whose services I have attended in the last ten years--and all of the smaller ones--have members who are not protestant and who are very likely to make comments to visitors--comments of such a nature as are likely to be understood by protestants as evidence that adventists aren’t protestants. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the majority of the members of such congregations aren’t protestants--only that it seems to be those who aren’t protestants who are the most aggressive in promoting their views, and quite willing to do so in an SdA church building on sabbath morning, even if their views don’t necessarily represent the views of the majority of the members of the congregation. The “problem” (if you don't’ mind me calling it that) seems to be that SdA pastors are under so much pressure by conference officers to incorporate new members that they (the pastors) are recommending voting membership for people who perceive our denomination in a way that is quite similar to the way LdS perceive their organization--a list of things to do to earn or deserve salvation (or, in the case of LdS, “exaltation”), a body of literature considered to be as high or higher authority than the Bible and the doctrine that only people “authorized” by the officers of their organization have spiritual authority. In Bible times, there were people who listened to one sermon, requested baptism that same day and were baptized that same day. I believe that is still (theoretically) possible in the twenty-first century but only if the person requesting baptism is as thoroughly acquainted with the Bible as the Hebrews were two-thousand years ago. Many of them had memorized significant portions of scripture including at least the first five books of the Bible before they ever heard someone speak about how Jesus had fulfilled many of the prophecies of the Hebrew prophets. The last time I attended sabbath services (several months ago) the speaker (not a clergyman) suggested during the sermon that no one is justified until he is sanctified. That is similar to something I heard from a Sabbath School teacher about ten years ago (in another state), namely, that no one will be forgiven by God until his name comes up in the investigative phase of the final judgment. There were non-adventist in the class and I didn’t want them to get the impression that is what most adventists believe so I asked the teacher some questions to see whether maybe I had misunderstood what he had said. He stuck to his doctrine that no one is forgiven until his name comes up in the judgement. I always thought of my parents as protestants and I have always thought of myself as a protestant. For most of my life, when I encountered adventists who were not protestants (or less protestant than I am) I just assumed that they were misinformed about our denomination being protestant. I still think I may attend sabbath services again someday but maybe, for my own peace of mind, I should just listen to H.M.S. Richards’ sermons and listen to Christian music on KZbin and try to maintain the fantasy that the denomination is still as protestant as I once thought it was. How big is the congregation of which you are a member? My perception is that if it is 150 members or more, it is probably (at least mostly) protestant--if it is smaller to that, it probably isn’t. Have you been a member elsewhere than where you live now and long enough to be reasonably certain that a visitor would have perceived the congregation as protestant? If so, where? I could really use the encouragement it would be to me to know more about the perceptions of someone like yourself who thinks of himself as a protestant adventist.

[@thenowchurch6419]

The Mormon doctrine is much more like secretive societies like the Freemasons. Their teachings are less coherent and consistent compared to S.D.A. doctrine. The S.D.A appears to have had some Freemasonic influence as well, but their governance is less authoritarian than the L.D.S. and the teachings are closer to King James Biblical scripture. I consider both groups to have some truth, but both have dangerous flaws as well. I am in no denomination. I am a Cosmic Rastafari and am in sympathy with much of the foundational teachings of the Tewahedo Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Writings of the Christian mystic and polymath scientist, Emanuel Swedenborg. Peace to you.

[@jeaneenshaw]

January 5, 2020 AMEN 🙏🙏

[@therapeuticinstrumentalsan3400]

The concept that humans have not part to play in resisting the devil is not based on the scripture. Our part begins after Christ knock's on the door of our hearts. "Behold I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hear my voice and open the door, I will come in and sup with him and him with me." Relationship with Christ and his children are mutual. The concept that we have nothing to do as far as our salvation is concern I false.

[@rogermetzger7335]

I seldom listen to 50-minute sermons anymore. I have found that 20 minutes is about the limit of my attention span. I’m not sure what inspired me to watch this 50-minute video but, over a period of two days, I watched the whole thing. Dear Pastor Priebe, Please tell me whether I’m understanding you correctly. Are you saying that “evangelicals” are preaching the gospel and that the Lord calls Seventh-day Adventists to preach the gospel too? Are you saying that, in addition to preaching the gospel, the Lord calls Seventh-day Adventists to do something else--something the “evangelicals” aren’t doing? In addition to preaching the gospel, are Adventists called to receive the seal of God, receive the latter rain and achieve moral perfection before the second advent of Jesus? I became a Sabbath School member in 1944 and a voting member of the Seventh-day Adventist organization in 1959. I have attended more than a dozen camp meetings and more than a dozen SdA “evangelistic” campaigns. I’ve been a member of about a dozen SdA congregations in about a half-dozen states and I’ve held elected offices in some of those congregations. On the other hand, I only attended adventist schools for 12-1/2 years and I never attended seminary so maybe I’m confused about what the advent movement is. There are two doctrines that were not widely taught by professed Christians in the 1830s but that were taught by adventists back then. Those same two doctrines are not widely taught by professed Christians in the twenty-first century and those same two doctrines are still taught by adventists today. a) That the purpose of the return of Jesus is to resurrect the people who have died in faith and take the living believers with them to the mansions he has gone to prepare. b) That the millennial kingdom will be an heavenly kingdom--not an earthly one. Those two doctrines are important because the final deception will by a false messiah who will tempt professed Christians to attempt to set up a theocracy on Earth and use coercion in the process of doing so. It has been my understanding that those two doctrines have been part of the gospel all along. In the nineteenth century, the problem wasn’t that protestants were not teaching the gospel--the problem was that most protestants were promoting an incomplete gospel. In the twenty-first century, the problem isn’t that protestants are not teaching the gospel--the problem is that most protestants are promoting an incomplete gospel. In the early 1980s, my wife and I became well acquainted with a young LdS gentleman in Utah. We had moved there in 1982 and I wanted to know as much as I could learn about Mormon doctrine. Dan Taylor answered as many of my questions as he could. When he didn’t know the answers, he did the research. Over a period of a year or so, Mrs. Taylor babysat our children an average of about one day per month and we sometimes ate meals together in public parks. It is customary for people to be invited to attend LdS baptismal classes only after they have requested membership in the LdS Church. After a while, Dan could see that I wasn't the least bit interested in becoming LdS and he told the officers of his “stake” so but obtained their permission to invite me to attend an LdS baptismal class. The teacher of the baptismal class was a good speaker. He presented an outline of things LdS members are expected to do and wrote those things, one by one, on a large chalkboard. He answered questions when he was asked. Finally, he erased everything he had written on the chalkboard and wrote the word, “DO”, in large letters on the board. He said, “It’s all about what you DO”, underlined the word three times and sat down. One of the differences between the so-called gospel presented by the LdS and the gospel I promote is that the gospel as I understand it is about what God does. That gospel includes what Jesus is doing now in the investigative phase of the final judgment. I can’t write about that, however, without also mentioning that there are several things I have heard adventists say (ostensibly about that subject) but that I entirely reject. One example is the Sabbath School teacher who said in class (with non-adventist visitors present) that no one will be forgiven until his name comes up in the investigative judgment. The Day Star extra published by O.R.L. Crosier in 1846 mentioned at least twice that the records of sin expunged during the investigative phase of the judgement will be the record of sins that have already been forgiven. So I asked the Sabbath School teacher some questions to see whether I had misunderstood him. He kept insisting that nobody will be forgiven until his name comes up in the investigative judgement. The next time I had a chance to speak with a conference officer, I asked him whether that was true. He said it wasn’t so I told him about the Sabbath School teacher. The conference officer said he would investigate and see what he could do. Over the years, I’ve encountered two antithetical beliefs among adventists on the subject of moral perfection. Some adventists have said (from the pulpit even) that believers won’t be morally perfect until we are glorified when Jesus returns. Others have said that moral perfection not only can but must be achieved before Jesus returns, that moral perfection cannot be achieved “on our own” but that it can be achieved “with God’s help”. For more than forty years, I have disagreed with both of those teachings. I expect that the last fragment (the remnant) of believers before Jesus returns will be morally perfect but that moral perfection is not achieved--it is received. It is as much a gift of God’s grace as forgiveness is a gift of God’s grace. It is true that God cannot provide that transformation without our cooperation in the sense that he will not transform anyone against his will but it seems to me that the “adventist message” is about what God does--a more complete gospel than the one that focuses ONLY on God’s grace in providing forgiveness. There are several other teachings that some adventists seem to think are related to the doctrine that the initial phase of the final judgment began in 1844. Some of those teachings I entirely reject. I still believe the initial phase of the final judgment began in the nineteenth century but some members of the Seventh-day Adventist organization have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Some adventists have assumed that those spurious teachings are an integral part of what Edson, Crosier and Hahn discovered in 1844 and ‘45 so they have decided that Edson, Crosier and Hahn were simply mistaken. Sometimes, after listening to a sermon, my wife will comment, “If you can’t convince ‘em, confuse ‘em.” By that she means that she thinks the preacher has presented two antithetical teachings in the hope that some of the members of the congregation will think his theology is very profound. Did you say that Ellen White’s understanding of truth did develop over time? Then, in this same video, did you imply that everything Ellen White wrote was not only inspired but as applicable in the twenty-first century as in the nineteenth century? Roger Metzger Milo, Maine

[@narrowwaytolife4525]

Michael Heathman, Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Remember: Jesus was and is Seventh-Day Adventist. Also his apostles and disciples. Genesis 2:2, 3:15

[@sasquatchmeridian3094]

Michael Heathman: You will be known by your fruit. Ellen cannot be anywhere but six foot under, sleeping the long sleep of death. Whatever constitutes our lifeforce, breath, memories, the spirit or soul, however you like to see it, goes back to God who keeps it to bring with Him when His son returns in glory. Hell is a false doctrine. You believe in something false teachers have been happily perpetrating for Millenia. The bible clearly teaches over and over the state of the dead is a 'sleep'. Your thoughts cease, your striving ceases. You rest with your father's in the earth. No more do you do the things you did when alive, you cease to be. Of course I do not expect your eyes to be suddenly opened by what I say, for you must be correct. Your fruit is quite obvious by what you have written. Suffice to say - you are devoid of the spirit of God which imparts goodness, love, peace, joy, kindness, self control...the fruit which is the good fruit and not the bad.. The only control I can see through what you wrote comes from a source that is purely satanic. The same spirit that controlled Saul as he happily watched others stone those he deemed as heretics, thinking himself doing the will of God. Don't you see? No..you cannot.. because you are blind, you do not hear what the shepherd says. The human heart is incredibly deceptive, and in these last days, men who claim to know Christ will destroy those who Christ himself knows. History always repeats itself. The sins of the father's truly are repeated by their sons.

[@sasquatchmeridian3094]

Roger Metzger: Roger you have hit the nail on the head. It never was about us achieving perfection or holiness by our own striving as it was never about what our works achieve for us. No amount of good works buys us a place or gets us into Gods good graces.. We have to fall on the rock to be broken or otherwise the rock will fall on us and destroy us. Only committing ourselves fully to belonging to God can bring us to this point of brokenness, knowing nothing we do saves us, knowing we are sinners lost in sin and in desperate need of a saviour. Christ comes to dwell in the contrite heart, the heart that knows the depth of its sin and sees true need of a new spirit to be reborn..we cannot be good, no man is. Even our best goodness is filthy, tainted with self. Indeed, the only real selfless act that a man can do is to lay down his life for another. But we are promised the spirit of Christ, his mind, his life can come into us to dwell which is the game changer. Without Christ dwelling in us we (delude ourselves) we can live a 'christian' life. Just as the acolytes of Christ day lived what they thought of as living Godly upright lives. Until we are reborn, We are those white washed tombs.. nice on the outer, nasty inside. All our good deeds are done in view of others to make them think we are good, or because we think we earn brownie points before God. It is purely motivated by the one thing that must be totally exised from the equation. SELF. When we come to the point of realisation of even our best efforts are as filthy rags, then we can see our true state. How much we need God's spirit flowing into us to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Only the indwelling spirit imparts the state of being reborn (in spirit), the true meaning of being born again. Our old self dies daily, being bought under complete subjection to the fresh in dwelling new spirit that is holy. It is only when we fully give our commitment (as in a true marriage vow, wholly and for life) that our ego can take a back seat to the will of God. Having Christ's mind come to dwell in us, We can love God, not vainly try to fool Him or buy Him by our outer show of 'goodness'. Then the spirit can do what it is designed to do, bring us into alignment with God, giving us the fruit which is the bountiful harvest of the spirit. We can truly love God more than self (because we have the life of the son living in us) so it is a joy and a pleasure to do His will. And through loving God we can really know true love for our fellow man. It is then love that does it's good work in us, and only in this can we boast. When you love others as self, you will do anything you can to help. There is no thought of self, just helping the others you can. This is the spirit of God in us, why love is the most important factor of living the Christian life. Everything we do comes from the heart of love that God imparts in us, through living faith in His son. We know self as it truly is. Manipulative, cold, calculating, greedy, self righteous. And we come to know what the Holy Spirit in us does, it enables the living water to flow from the throne of the Father and the lamb into us, and from us to others in the form of love. Our spirits come under total subjection to the Holy Spirit, Gods pure love enables us to love Him and others and from that life giving flow comes the gifts of the spirit. Through the son we get access to the Father and the life giving water of their spirit. When you taste the spirit working in your life, the faith, trust and reality of truth rocks your universe. There is no stepping away from this, no falling back into the world for that would mean being lost, blind, naked and being in eternal darkness.

[@457christiaan]

Roger Metzger the real bride is not a corporation kzbin.info/www/bejne/joOpZYVsnaaFnbc

[@donzivanov812]

Any person who lieve the church thay not strong in faith and church doctrine if you rooted in gospel u will stay in church come back home God bless u

[@miguelsimeaodasilva1647]

God bless you the church

[@miguelsimeaodasilva1647]

i am brazilian

[@miguelsimeaodasilva1647]

552198671-6605

[@miguelsimeaodasilva1647]

[e-mail]

[@rogermetzger7335]

I see there are still (as of June of 2021) some people active on this comment thread so I’d like to ask a question. I don’t think the promulgation of the three angels’ messages would benefit from another “Church” organization but is it possible that those messages could be more effectively proclaimed by a lay “evangelistic” organization that meets the criteria below? Not becoming a Church organization. Encouraging people to dedicate a tithe of their increase to the support of full-time gospel ministers. (Because the evangelistic organization wouldn’t include clergy, the officers of the organization would not knowingly accept anyone’s tithe.) Not using the word “Adventist” in the name of the organization. Emphasizing: Justification by grace alone through faith alone The primacy of scripture The priesthood of all believers The purpose of the second advent of Jesus - to resurrect people who have died in faith and take living believers with them to the mansions he has gone to prepare. Most of the evangelistic organizations of which I am aware measure success entirely or almost entirely in terms of numbers of people who make professions of faith in Jesus. Some people, however, measure success in terms of how many people join a specific religious organization. To me, this second measure of success is proselytizing - i.e. not really evangelism at all. An evangelistic organization with the goals listed in the first paragraph above could measure success in several ways: If a person who has been accustomed to speaking of faith as his (or our) gift to God begins, instead, to speak of faith as God’s gift to him (or to us). If a person who has been accustomed to speaking about having been saved begins, instead, to speak about having been justified, about being sanctified (in the present continuous tense) and about being glorified at the second advent of Jesus. If a person who has been accustomed to talking about what he “has to do” as a Christian begins, intead, to speak of those same things as what he “gets to do” as a Christian. If a person who has been accustomed to talking about “attaining” or “achieving” sanctification or about having been sanctified begins, instead, to speak of sanctification as a process that is accomplished by grace through faith. If a person who has been accustomed to quoting extra-biblical sources as authority (the “historic” creeds or a modern prophet, for example) begins, instead, to quote only the Bible as authority. If a person who has been accustomed to speaking about people going to heaven when they die begins, instead, to emphasize the first resurrection. If a person has been accustomed to speaking of a millennial reign on Earth begins, instead, to speak of a millennial reign in heaven. If a person who has been accustomed to speaking of hell as a place begins, instead, to speak of hell as an event. If a person who has been accustomed to speaking about reigning with Jesus in an executive capacity (enforcing his laws) begins, instead, about reigning with Jesus in a judicial capacity.

[@burnellajones4173]

In

[@rogermetzger7335]

@@burnellajones4173 I'm not sure how to understand your one-word answer, "In". Did you mean, "I'm in", meaning that you think a lay evangelistic association might be able to do some things that a "Church" organization can't do as effectively? evangelistic

[@fredsimmons2793]

Do you think that of the thousands of people who were baptized on the same day as receiving the word, at the time of Pentecost, without baptismal consideration, like Adventists require, was wrong?That American Flag has no place in the Sanctuary, it's a offense to the blood of Christ in this setting!The word Conservative is a worldly concept, it is not in the Bible one time!

[@asenacawitt2048]

Amen !!!!!

[@457christiaan]

Asenaca Witt kzbin.info/www/bejne/joOpZYVsnaaFnbc. The real bride

[@dutchman6533]

Eschatology is one of the most misunderstood and ignored parts of the Bible and because there are many different beliefs about the Millennial Reign and Second Coming of our Messiah. Most scholars in the world and most institutes globally, as well as the internet, know only about four ways. Believers would then adopt one of these, depending on which one he/she favours. But there is a fifth one and only a handful Scholars globally still teach it today -- Midrashic Eschatology. The others are Preterists, Historicists, Poemiscists, Spiritualists (also known as Idealists, Historical-Spiritualists); and lastly, Futurists. Midrashic Eschatology is not the Western idea of prophecy: is different. The Western idea of prophecy is "prediction and fulfilment". They absolutely did not think in such a way in Y’shua’s time. To Y’shua, Paul and the other Rabbis, "prophecy was a pattern"... Y’shua gives a classic example in Mat 24:15 “… When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)”. Y’shua was quoting from Daniel (9:27). That literally happened with Antiochus Epiphanes 160 years earlier (B.C), when he desecrated the temple by slaughtering a pig on the altar! Y’shua knew that it happened, because Y’shua himself celebrated the Feast of Hanukkah (John 10:22-23), which is the Feast of Lights/Dedication. The origin of this festival was when the Jewish Maccabeen brothers cleansed the temple from Epiphanes. Here Y’shua is using Preterism -- not in the way the Liberal or Evangelical Preterists do -- but He used the form of Preterism. In other words, He took something that happened already and made it prophecy and said it will happen again. Secondly, Y’shua uses Historicism, meaning something ongoing that happens through history. Read Josephus when the Holy of Holies was destroyed. Look at the Temple Mount when the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. The Romans put a pagan statue on the Temple Mount and began to worship it. The early Christian thought it was "the abomination of desolation" that was spoken of by Daniel and Y’shua! Also, in April-July 130 A.D., Hadrian began building his temple of Capitoline Jupiter atop the Temple Mount and Jerusalem was renamed Aelia Capitolina, another "abomination of desolation". Later, Emperor Julian the Apostate, Constantine’s nephew, tried to repaganise the Roman Empire. He tried to reverse Y’shua’s prophecy of "There shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down" by allowing the Jews, in 361-363 A.D., to build a "third temple". All this was an "abomination of desolation". Today, once again, the Dome of the Rock (the Mosque of Omar) stands on the Temple Mount -- yet another "abomination of desolation". Why is it another "abomination of desolation"? Because there are 16 references in the Qur’an, that says God has no Son. In the Bible in 1 John 2:22 we read, “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” See, again another "abomination of desolation": in other words, historicism is also true. Each fulfilment is a type or a shadow of the ultimate one to come; that is how Y’shua understood and taught prophecy. But Poemiscism is also true. John wrote the Book of Revelation to encourage the church that he is the last apostle being martyred, and he was there to encourage the church that Y’shua will eventually come back. People had serious doubts and expected Y’shua to still come in their lifetime. So Poemiscism (encouragement) is also true! But Futurism (prediction and a literal fulfilment in the future) is also true! Those in Y’shua’s time believed and knew that prophecy is multifaceted fulfilment. Each fulfilment is a picture of the final one; that is the way prophecy was handled by the people who wrote the New Covenant. All interpretations are thus correct as we have proven, but be very careful of those who only teach the 1) Preterist view, 2) Historicist view, 3) Poemiscist view, or the 4) Futurist view by itself. Midrashic interpretation (number 5) includes the 1) Preterist view, 2) Historicist view, 3) Poemiscist view, 4) Futurist view. It is the only accurate interpretation of prophecy to make any sense of Eschatology. Futurism it is the closest to the truth, but it is only part of the truth. You need to understand Eschatology from a Jewish perspective -- from a Midrashic perspective, through the eyes of Y’shua! The Western Church has only understood prophecy generally up to now! We need to seriously get away from aberrational eschatology! Just remember that SDA don't follow bible either 100%, only some things. EGW failed test of prophet in Deuteronomy 18 20-22 and also created another gospel called spirit of prophecy forbidden in Deuteronomy 13 1-4, Yeshua is the spirit of prophecy! My Messiah doesn't give fake messages to people and then we try to justify them away. EGW didn't test her spirit guides to see where they came from either. The commentaries are just that, another gospel. There is Midrashic interpretation of prophecy also. Come on folks, bible only. You are no different than Mormons, JW, RC etc. You don't create your own bible society to back up your own message! SDA have their own bibles now also called the Remnant Special Forces Study Bible with EGW woven throughout it and The Clear Word. There is a word for that, it's called idolatry! Jews, Messianics, JW and church of God 7th Day don't buy into Trinity. Do you buy into a pagan doctrine from Rome? Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. ( His word not another's) John 1 Miltha refers to the “Manifestation” of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach. The physical body of Mashiyach is not the Word of YHWH, but his words and actions demonstrate the Will and Word of YHWH, which upholds observance of Torah. However, Christo-Pagans like Marcion and Constantine taught that Y’shua’s body and spirit manifest a different “word” that did away with Torah. The Word of YHWH was substituted with dispensational and replacement “theologies,” which are more popular among Christians.

[@rigut229]

PASTOR RAUL RIES AND JOHN MCARTHUR AND BETTER

[@julietrae8665]

These people remind me. Or should I say. They look at this EGW as Daniel or Jerrimiah John of Patmos. Way you dress has nothing to do with jack. I say Doug's video. JW's mixed with Jews mixed with a bit of evangelical. Which where you think the bible come from. The same Catholic Church they hate. HATE! NOT Y'shua's message. I was attending for a month til I felt so weird. SDA is remnant? No.

[@ericdavid3801]

is jesus worthy to be God, thats the 800 pound gorrilla on earth. no man has ever acknowledge this fact. but if jesus himself shows you this ( many humans could have seen this, Adam - abraham ( realized this himself, and went searching for god) Moses in pharoh's house, elijah, Disciples after his death, paul, may be ellen white ?) then you will be disqualified from saying jesus is worthy to sit on the throne of God.

[@donzivanov812]

I just say Ellen w.was good Christian and spiritualy conected her books is the best spiritualy books that u can read so if u can find better spiritualy books u lat me know she talk only biblical truth she is at all time in line with biblical truth thanks God for her books

[@theresaflynn8683]

The Bible!

[@ericdavid3801]

but she denies the central theme that 1: jesus is God. 2: she denies everything he did was good, through her piety ( what it is nobody talks about, even job) 3: the devils disagreement with god ( which god?), 4: worthy , worthy is the lamb, says revelations, where are human beings who were charged to consider him worthy to sit on the throne of the father. 6: which he will do with people forward seeing and back ward seeing beings, ( they were alive and saw jesus christ create man and jesus's failure in convincing man he is god.) and they are his creations from other planets the he created before the creation of earth. ( they are listed in the bible as father god's creations as MEN, and CHILDREN of MEN. ) ( Men were having children not females)( like homosexuals trying in this world (earth)).

[@marriannekearns7238]

You stressed about being faithful to our mission. Not once did you mention the proclamation of the three angels messages which is present truth for our time. Are you wilfully blind to the apostasy of Ted Wilson and some of his colleagues at GC level who refuse to identify the man of sin and the Antichrist and directly disapprove of other pastors preaching present truth? When asked directly what the mark of the beast is, he refused to to say Sunday Worship? Instead of putting great distance between us and the papacy as we are councilled in the Spirit of Prophecy, they are beating a path to the Vatican. You have much praise for these apostate leaders. STRANGE !!

[@rafaeltorres2460]

This "present" truth is malarkey. It's not the Gospel of God.

[@janetdavidson8798]

The mark of the beast will be imposed in the Tribulation period . The antichrist (AKA beast) will want everyone to take his mark to show alligiance to him and worship him. The mark will be his name or number in the forehead or hand . People will need it to buy and sell . The cashier or self checkout will need to verify you have the mark of the beast to buy food and anything else . God said those that take the mark are guaranteed to go to hell .

[@irenetafoya5207]

diminish the doctrine and the gospel principles usually take over I willing minds of the SDA Church. these are good people who love Jesus because they are his sheep kick the Catholics Out and Keep Jesus

[@tehuingamamaeroajoseph1822]

I recommend you preach the Gospel of the Bible. The Jesus you taught me, was different to the Jesus I met in the Bible. There is no investigative judgemnt that you preach is not truth of Gods Word. My Bible tells me that the blood atonement of my Lord Jesus Christ is a completed work. Stop reading the word of God through the filtering of your prophet. Gods word interprets itself.

[@tehuingamamaeroajoseph1822]

aurelio milaor cabal Thank you for your response. The Gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-5. We received through faith. It is written in Ephesians 2:8-9 how salvation is received. Then God goes on to say, Ephesians 2:10. That we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has prepared before hand so that we should walk in them. Yours and my good works are nothing without Gods Holy Spirit. He is the one who leads us.

[@coralhiers7809]

There is a investigation it is going on now you are being recorded by every word you say and all your deed... even tho we are not judged by our deed cause if we love the lord we will automatic want o please our Lord....

[@irenetafoya5207]

diminish the doctrine and the gospel principles usually take over I willing minds of the SDA Church. these are good people who love Jesus because they are his sheep kick the Catholics Out and Keep Jesus