It's Cheaper To Charge An EV w/ A Diesel Generator Than Public DC Fast Charging!

Episode 323: On today’s episode Kyle tells Francie all about their portable diesel generator that the team used to power the Autel charger and charge EV trucks during the major Out of Spec Reviews testing we’ve been doing lately. And get this - it’s cheaper than it would have been to charge on public DC fast EV charging infrastructure! Kyle walks us through the numbers.
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#electricvehicle #evcharging #dieselgenerators

[@douggolde7582]

Get the generator Kyle. Then get a deep fryer. You’ll save money on restaurants and you can burn the fry oil in the generator.

[@rossr6616]

works til you're about 50, then not so much 😂

[@tedmoss]

Before or after ruining your heart?

[@Harrythehun]

Just to compare the kW cost is not relevant. The CPO has factored in all costs against the free generator on a free trailer pulled by a free car by a free truck driver.

[@brucec954]

Yeah, the cost of the electricity is not the major factor, it's the cost of the infrastructure (parking lot, equipment, transmission lines, repairs etc).

[@lowfuel6089]

Exactly.

[@ChaimLoecher]

I guess you can "pull" 6 x 40kwh ecoflow powerstations (charged at home)= minimal losses + DC power for the same cost.

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Cup half filled/half empty

[@Harrythehun]

@@sparkysho-ze7nm ?

[@davidew98]

but your not adding the price of the charger and generstor if you bought those vs just a charger. the charging companies charge you for the electric and the equipment.

[@tedmoss]

Plus other hidden costs.

[@AkioWasRight]

Or.... Just buy a diesel truck, no hidden costs.

[@stevedrawdy2532]

I don't think he's telling people to buy a Diesel generator and DC fast charger vs charging like normal or owning an ice vehicle.

[@gaikaviortas455]

You should collaborate with other KZbinrs who specializes in battery systems, like "DIY Solar power with Will Prowse" or others and build your own trailer with specific weight and use it for towing test and have mobile charging station at the same time.

[@tedmoss]

The trouble is it just won't work yet, that's why no one has done it.

[@omarastacio3939]

1) You can't exclude the price of the rental of Generator or Purchase of one when comparing prices to a DC fast charger. 2) When quoting your home KWH pricing you state $0.10 per kwh but if your utility company bills like mine there is a commodity price PLUS a delivery charge. For me the amount I pay is $0.09 per kwh in my home but they also charge $0.10 for delivery so my real price is $0.19. I suspect you are similar.

[@jasonstroup4123]

Correct, you need to normalize the cost of the trailer, generator, and charger with the cost of diesel per charging session.

[@tazeat]

How they break up the bill is irrelevant some have flat fees, some break out delivery, some add taxes as a line item. Final bill divided kWh we're about .11/kWh (no tou for me) where I'm at but it varies by locale and I don't think CO is much different.

[@MrTekniqs]

If he includes the cost of rental does he also include the cost of owning and operating a DC Fast charger? The point is the cost of usage not the Total cost of ownership.

[@andrewt9204]

I mean that wildly depends on your utility. Mine just has a maintenance and connection fee, which is a flat $15/mo regardless how much I use. I mean yeah, if I barely use anything, I'm paying a lot more than the base 11c/kwh. But the ~1mwh I use per month makes that about 13c/kwh if you factor in that $15 fee.

[@omarastacio3939]

@@MrTekniqs The conclusion is comparing the cost of charging off of a diesel generator without the cost of equipment and comparing it to the cost at a DC fast charger (Electrify America), the price of which includes the cost to own, operate and maintain the equipment , so it is not a fair comparison and the conclusion inaccurate. With regard to everyone else and the cost of their electrical supply. Thank you, great information. It is so different for everyone.

[@matthewprather7386]

Amazon server rack batteries go for about $200 per kWh. $20k gets the 100 kWh you’re looking for. Weighs about 2000 lbs - easily carried by even a single axle cargo trailer, although I’d opt for something a bit heavier. Might not be a bad investment for OoS.

[@lxoxrxexnx]

The 33.7 kWh per gallon is for gasoline. Diesel is more like 40 kWh per gallon; so the combustion conversion efficiency to electricity is more like 20%. This is a diesel engine designed more for long term durability than efficiency. This is in line with the 17% that I got with a small diesel when I was evaluating engines for arc welder use more than 3 decades ago.

[@vincentrobinette1507]

I wish I had seen this reply, I just posted the same argument, with the same numbers!

[@yournumberonepal]

The conversion back the other way would get you a cost of $20/g diesel. So don't bother using that as a metric, all that matters is the fuel used, kwh produced, and cost of fuel. The losses were already accounted for in the production.

[@vincentrobinette1507]

diesel fuel actually has a higher BTU content than gasoline, per gallon. Diesel is actually closer to 40.4 kWh per gallon, as opposed to the 33.7 kWh per gallon of gasoline. Gasoline is ~115,000 BTU's per gallon, Diesel is ~138,000 BTU's per gallon. The generator actually only got about 20.8% efficiency, rather than ~25% efficiency, if it achieved that output on gasoline. Keep in mind, the engine is actually pretty good, but, how much energy conversion losses are there in the alternator? We already know that the dispenser efficiency is in the mid to high 90 percentage range.

[@kevinpond8422]

While interesting, fuel costs alone aren’t comparable to public charging rates.

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Is functionality

[@kevinpond8422]

Fuel costs are more directly comparable to the commercial rates per kWh charged to the CPO. Kyle might have thought it was so obvious it wasn’t worth mentioning, but I think some viewers might get the wrong impression. A CPO would go broke offering charging at .50/kWh powered off diesel generators, because they couldn’t ignore the cost of the generator or the DCFC.

[@nc3826]

​ @kevinpond8422 Your OC was exactly right... Plus kyle mentioned the diesel generator rental fee and choice to disregard that additional capital cost in the calculations, which is inherently included in DCFC rates... (It reminds me how some people misleadingly state solar electric generation is free) YT social media inaccurate melodrama clickbait, designed to get more views and attention.. disappointing... Thank you for pointing out the obvious, so I didn't waste time doing it... Have a nice day.

[@tedmoss]

@@kevinpond8422 It ends up being just click bait.

[@eugenem5244]

No, but filling up a normal ICE truck is. For basically $40 in fuel, I can drive an ICE truck the same distance as an EV truck goes on a single charge.

[@arlenbell4376]

I would like to see an analysis comparing gasoline to diesel as many people have 7 - 10,000 watt portable generators at home. Maybe include natural gas and propane also.

[@jdlutz1965]

My guess on price per unit of energy, diesel (using off-road diesel, low taxes), gas, natural gas, propane... Cheapest to most expensive. Generally people use the most convenient fuel for them with cost being less of an issue as generator are typically used in emergency situations when grid not available.

[@shahzadiqbal1976]

Interesting topic to discuss. But I think you should also include the rental cost of the generator, then cost of another truck carrying the battery pack and the generator, and also cost of a driver driving the truck, the battery pack and the generator to the stranded vehicle.

[@libertykrueger1433]

If you are going to buy a diesel generator, consider a capstone microturbine. Their C65 will have about the same output as the one you rented, but will weight much less and won’t require any of the typical maintenance that a standard piston diesel engine would. The capstone microturbine is air cooled and even runs on air bearings so no oil or coolant is required.

[@ArielBatista]

Maybe what you need is a freewire unit on a trailer. Once at the office connected to the 100 amp or 200 amp plug.

[@l10industries]

It would probably weigh too much. Would be very cool though.

[@rogerhall559]

Diesel Electric cars. That will save the planet. Brilliant!!

[@rossr6616]

the Loco Ev

[@redhat421]

I suspect you're being sarcastic but they really would reduce emissions and improve efficiency vs a conventional ICE vehicle. This is part of the genius of EVs, they are energy source agnostic.

[@vincentrobinette1507]

Stellantis is already working on a Dodge Ram Diesel Hybrid truck, which should be a very economical solution, if you're not able to charge one of these electric trucks at home. If you can't charge at home, you will be money ahead to look at one of the Hybrid solutions, rather than relying solely on public DC fast charging. As a bonus, the truck will offer over 600 miles of range on a tank of diesel fuel!

[@AkioWasRight]

@@redhat421 It's not genius at all. The charging and the battery are points of inefficiency. A traditional diesel truck would actually cost less because it's just direct power, no charging or transmission loses. The genius and agnosticism come from the energy source. Diesel can power almost anything economical.

[@KyleBrightman]

Kyle, I don’t think your 35% coal-powered generator quote is accurate for a modern co-gen power plant. Thermal efficiency for closed loop turbine generator is much better than a reciprocating engine. Can you verify your claim? I know you are a trusted authority in the EV space (myself included) so I just want to ensure you are accurately portraying the efficiency of power generation at the grid level.

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

……….which are not mobile

[@Dularr]

35% comes from modern China design

[@tedmoss]

Thermal cycle for steam is max 50% eff, half is waste heat.There are other losses, but much better than internal cumbustion @ max 27% down to 12%.

[@nerdbikes3841]

According to DOE, modern coal plants operate at up to 37% efficiency and nat gas fired up to 60%. These figures are probably at the limits of technology and physics with any future gains at a massive loss of return of investment.

[@AkioWasRight]

Not all coal-powered generators are modernized. Also, 35% is pretty widely accepted. In fact, the Depart Of Energy claims 33% for US coal.

[@Dupont550]

Awesome. What one is better for the environment?

[@lordnetsplits3192]

Does the diesel used equal the amount the car would have used if it was a diesel car? About 40mpg highway

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

Fast DC charging should be expensive. It's a convenience and should never replace home charging. However, they have some of the highest profit margins of any business in history. Tesla is typically 5-8X markup over what the pay for electricity. Good thing is it pays to build more stations.

[@Chris-jt7xg]

Never? Lots of people can’t fast charge at home. Lots of needs besides yours.

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

@Chris-jt7xg No one needs to DC fast charge at home. That would be insane and it would crash the grid. Level 2 charging is all anyone needs at home. Do you not sleep at home? How far do you drive every day? How much do you sleep at night? Bottom line, if you can't charge at home or work, you should stick with ICE.

[@KevinJones-Peacefreak]

Maybe a hybrid trailer using a smaller generator and substantial battery. The generator can charge the system slower, but efficiently. Then the battery system can charge the vehicles. This may not make sense, but some smaller generators can be efficient. They may have to run longer, and charge the trailer batteries more slowly, but maybe?

[@simonthebroken9691]

Edison Motors. They have a system already. I don't know the specifics though.

[@rossr6616]

is anyone out there designing an open source DCFC controller?

[@JamieTorontoAtkinson]

Does the Cybertruck offer DC V-to-V charging or AC 230v at 40amps

[@cbenson513]

Would love to see a video that goes over typical costs to install an EA/Tesla, other high power fast public charger and costs to operate and evaluation on the amount of charging needed to 1) cover operating costs, and 2) eventually pay for capital costs to reach profitability. I hear complaints about public charging rates, but without knowledge of the capital and operating costs of the station who knows what is or is not reasonable? I know this is surely highly variable based on the charging, infrastructure already present, location, etc. but maybe a couple of case studies as examples and/or discussions with those at the charging networks that manage installs could give some ballpark figures to allow for reasonable estimations.

[@benjamindbarr]

I dont think charging off from a diesel generator is weird. I think it is the reason EVs are so cool... yeah there is that whole thing that EVs should only exist to help the environment and i guess that comes from them being the only ones that fought so hard to bring them into the mainstream. I have loved EVs since i first got into batteries in college as the idea of being set from from a single infrastructure is amazing. I can think of half a dozen ways to produce electricty to charge a car off the top of my head that at least one can be adapted to most properties. But finding and refining oil is difficult to do on the micro level and is a great way to control peoples pocketbooks and travel ( need less travel, just raise the price) not saying it has been used as a control method just that it can be if we are dependant on it. I think an EV being charged from a Diesel generator is awesome... the next step would be to reduce the size of the generator, add a battery and solar and have a little micro grid that charges the trucks from a combination of diesel, solar, and/or batteries depending on the charge rate needed. This would enable you to reduce the size of the generator and run it at peak efficency as well.

[@FiddleMaker63]

The magic math of a free generator. 😂 please add $6.60 per kWh for fixed cost of the generator. Then add the cost of charger. Then add the fuel cost. = true cost of charging. The EA chargers are fully loaded cost including profit margins.

[@ericroe]

And EA and other CPO’s have to pay rent for the station as well. So you’d have to add that into the cost as well. What’s typical commercial parking lot space per sqft in Colorado. Cost keeps going up.

[@edwarddesposito4476]

I can see this on a remote worksite with all EV based heavy equipment. One generator powering a charging a bank of batteries. Those batteries powering the worksite and when the heavy equipment needs to be charged then it drains the battery pack. One generator is quieter than 4+ pieces of diesel powered heavy equipment.

[@Dive-Bar-Casanova]

3 gallons of gas to charge our EV6: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rom8aHiOfrucgtUfeature=shared

[@kens97sto171]

All very interesting info. Maybe I misunderstood the part they compared cost per mile??? But it seemed to me that a gas truck getting 24 MPG, cost LESS per mile driven.. than the EV trucks they compared? I am not really surprised.. that was my findings when I did a long 2400 miles road trip in my Bolt EV.. Cost at DC chargers averaged about 35 cent per KW hour. along the route. When I did the math and looked at the cost.. it was MORE than I would have spent driving my previous car.. which was a 14 year old Prius with 400,000 miles on it. I usually got about 40 MPG at 80 MPH. Bolt averages about 3 Mi/Kwh at that speed.

[@philippe146]

Cafu in Quebec has a transit van DC charge. be fantastic if you made a video with them to see how exactly it works. They come full your car when low on power and you can link your car so they know when to come

[@BillWiltsch]

Kyle mentioned that Tesla has some megapack powered chargers. That is a misspeak. Megapacks don't make electricity, it just stores it. So, you are still charging from the grid. I was researching megapacks recently and surprised to see the efficiency of the megapack is only 91%. For an electrical conversion, no-moving-parts electrical device that seems very low- much more losses than all of the transmission losses from a generating plant to an endpoint.

[@Thebrainymonkey]

Is diesel that cheap in the US? I'm assuming in those costs, you're not considering the $5.9T in subsidies from your taxes to the fossil fuel companies that the US government pays to them each year to keep them profitable, I wonder how cheap green electricity would be with the same subsidies. Incidentally, the UK's last coal fired power station is powering down for good in October this year as its no longer profitable.

[@irfanhusein1445]

Nonsense. Oil companies pay taxes on their substantial profits. The dividends they pay their shareholders gets taxes again. There are excise taxes on fuel as well. On the other hand EV are subsided by many state and by the federal government with direct tax credits to buyers. And if you install solar panels you get a 30% tax credit on the total installation cost. And by the way I own a Tesla model 3, a Mach E and have rooftop solar. And I have received tax credits for all three. Spewing lies about who gets subsidies just gives the anti EV crowd more ammunition. So stop doing that.

[@paulrybarczyk5013]

@@irfanhusein1445 yes, it will be nice when the right stops telling lies about the EV industry, and when the left stops telling lies about the petroleum industry. The constant division adds nothing.

[@Jr210100]

Here's how we know there are problems with everything you say and believe: First of all, the US oil market only has a revenue of about $340-$350 billion. $5.9 trillion would have to be 17 times that much. Second, the US government only has a budget of $6 trillion. $5.9 trillion would be nearly the entire budget of the US government. So, knowing all the trillions in other expenses the US government has, we know your math is off, BY A LOT! Also, $5.9 trillion sounds like the number the IMF put out a few years ago. That is the global figure for oil and gas "subsidies", not just the US. Of that $5.9 trillion, it is almost entirely deductions. And that really the biggest problem here. A deduction is not a "subsidy", or a gift that reduces the cost of a product. Deductions are just adjustments for tax purpose. No one is actually giving oil companies money for anything. The word "subsidy" is just being misused.

[@blazure101]

I'm surprised someone like AAA hasn't sought out a solution for this. Have solutions like the gallon of gas but a kWh for battery cars.

[@gafiegel]

This makes me want to go run my BMW i3 Rex on the highway at 70 with the Rex running the whole time and do the “mpg” calculations. I’ve only ever done a few miles on the Rex when I actually needed it. Seems like that same solution on a much smaller scale. Would be interesting to see how the cost per mile compares on fuel vs EA charging.

[@davidew98]

this is not a buyable zero emission option, BUT this is a GREAT option for a tow truck to give enough of a charge to get to a close charger

[@timoliver8940]

The main motoring organizations in the U.K. (AA and RAC) already do this for EV flat battery rescues - they give you enough charge to get to the nearest charger as part of your membership as an EV owner

[@CurtisLarimer]

Wait until the price wars come for charging. Prices are high because there is no competition right now.

[@danharold3087]

Prices are high now by design.

[@kelviskelvis7140]

Does the cost of DEF factor in if you go head to head with a diesel ICE pickup? I wonder if that puts it at a higher cost?

[@nathanbrumbaugh8545]

5.00 per 1000 miles is aprox. My cost for def. Using diesel vans.

[@danno180]

Price per KWh at home isn’t the total bill in MN. The electricity I used came to $131. After all other fees, my electricity bill was $241. So that 6 cents, 10 cents, 13 cents, whatever… isn’t what you’re actually paying. It’s double or more! Also, Chevy already beat Kyle to the idea of towing an extra battery around. They just put in a huge a$$ battery bigger than the other trucks. Same idea but just in 4 wheels instead of 8.

[@Indypacecar82]

Would it be possible to get the new freewire charger. It is able to operate during power outages. Strap it to a trailer and drive around with it.

[@leroyharder4491]

It would be very interesting to see what the fixed costs of superchargers and the cost/kwh with capacity. Here in British Columbia at tesla superchargers, the max I have seen is $0.4 CAD kwh, with an early morning charge of $0.14/kwh. Our home rate is .10, though we have installed solar panels to avoid high use .15. It will be interesting to see options for remote charging. Between solar, wind, batteries, generators? May make sense for off grid homes to offer charging services and charge a hefty premium for extreme use in the boonies.

[@lylestavast7652]

So you're running a vehicle to tow the genset - which isn't free either for all those miles... then if you have one static, you're probably paying for fuel delivery in excess of the metered gallon cost... where the SuC is faster charging, not one has to move it around or bring fuel to it. This whole sort of costing is something I brought up years ago when trucks were being mentioned; someone needs to provide off-grid electricity or get special rates for off-peak commercial use with some local storage at the SuC point. Even modest sized solar installations that can trickle charge such storage will keep pricing down. It's an interesting topic for sure.

[@stevekight1955]

Some outback stations in Australia use big generators to charge EVs if one ever rolls in.

[@ChaimLoecher]

Kyle is the man! He is proving/finding real solutions for EVs !

[@ruds2600]

He should learn what a hybrid is.

[@msbarnet1]

Entertaining and thought provoking video, really enjoy OOS content. Here's the math for the infrastructure cost ..Generator rental- $3,600. Charger-free, kwh consumed- 541. $3,600/541kwh=$6.65/kwh excluding fuel cost. Dc fast charging doesn't seem so expensive with that math.

[@usaverageguy]

I thought the video's title was meant to say public charging was overpriced. But when you mentioned the generator cost $3.6k to rent for two weeks I knew that was not the point. I mean, how many trucks would you have to charge in two weeks to recoup the cost of rental plus the cost of diesel? And that is exactly the situation DCFC providers have to deal with.

[@gregyohngy]

People need to see the cost per kw of the various fast DC chargers. Tesla charges about $.33 a kw but I have seen even less. The other DC fast chargers seem almost 1/3 more per kw. I saw a local Level 2 charger run by a local city charge FAST DC charging rates! You don't have to speed 10 miles above the speed limit when testing. Provide us with LEGAL speeds and then we get better miles per kw. I drove a Model S 1802 miles on the highway from Philly to a Chicago Suburb and got 4.5 miles per kw. I spent $33.00 at a couple of Tesla FAST chargers or about $133 if paid the whole distance. Let's see next time how far I can go with my 2017 Fiat 500e with no FAST charging!

[@vr4042]

What was your "MPG"? How many miles total did that 62 gallons of diesel add to all the trucks?

[@vr4042]

Oh, you did it lol 18mpg

[@MrNollemans]

Yes that's look good analyse. Can we use that heat from the generator and store it? Use it also? When I charged my EV with power from a generator, I calculated an efficiency of 1 ltr gasoil for 60km or 37 mi, for summer time. 12kWh/100km @ 82 km/hr, no AC, no wind, sunshine @ 23Celcius. But that is purely based on the fuel consumption of 0.8 ltr gasoil for 3.6 kW every hour. To be completely true it is not the total amount the generator consumed. It consumed in total 4.2 ltr/hr, because it has to keep momentum in the pistons and heat waste is blown into the air. At is was a 150 kVA capacity generator at very low load. Can we improve it? For sure to keep the generator at 80% load, will improve engine efficiency.

[@Snoetzel87]

When you compare kWh pricing, you always need to consider max charging speed. The operating Energy costs for +350kW (due to demand chargers) are significantly higher than your diesel generator 50kW output

[@eugenem5244]

Which is why you just buy a regular diesel truck. There's no extra cost for fueling up in 4 minutes.

[@audislowroad]

Voltstack makes a "30k" battery DCFC on a trailer. I looked into it for offering mobile ev rescue but it's about $180k. They might be willing to work with you though, not sure.

[@ruds2600]

There is not many coal fired plants still in operation in Colorado. You are paying high prices for that green energy.

[@thelongdaysofwheeling124]

There have been HomeBrew/DIY battery trailers made with used Tesla Model S packs...... that is where I would start.

[@jull1234]

How about this calculation: how many kWh would it take to equal the standard Tesla kWh cost with all in costs considered with this setup?

[@digger450r]

I wonder if one could be built out of one or two used ev batteries? Also when calculating our efficiencies you interchanged gas and diesel figures and vehicles a few times and I feel that it probably threw your numbers off. I read about a test in Australia on diesel charged evs vs diesel cars and the ev went a lot farther on the same amount of fuel.

[@RobertCrickmore]

I love the tech and concept of EV's. The haters are mostly wrong except for one thing and it's a big one. The grid itself. When we get to a large percentage of EV's on the road will there actually be grid capacity? Modernizing the capacity of the electric grid is a huge national project costing trillions of dollars, and taking 10 to 20 years. Everything I read or hear says wind and solar simply won't reliably handle it and nobody wants to build new fossil fuel power plants that will be around for another 50 years. And nukes? At least 20 years if we can convince people to live near one. If all that is close to being correct, what's going to power all the EV's? I would love to see you do a deep dive into the grid issue.

[@k34561]

Tesla supercharging used to be a lot cheaper. I have seen the price of supercharging jump a lot. My average session back in 2018-2019 was like $6-7. Now it is ~$20. Around 3X price increase. Electric rates haven't gone up that much. We need competition in supercharger pricing.

[@gerhardk98]

Supercharging originally was free, I bet at 6 or $7 it was a loss leader and now it is priced for a return on investment. I look at DC charging as a convenience and don’t look at the KWh cost because I know when averaged with my home charging the cost of power used is much cheaper than to fuel an equivalent ICE vehicle.

[@myaccount__7269]

Kyle does what I do for video calls lol. AirPod in ear to hear and stationary mic for the other person. Smart man!

[@artkrot]

Buying diesel at gas station you paying extra for rd tax. I believe if you use heating oil it would be cheaper.plus you are not avoiding taxes because you technically filling generator to produce electricity not to power the vehicle. Just a thought.

[@mrmawson2438]

Cheers

[@ChaimLoecher]

Why is this a problem? Everyone brings a generator to a jobsite !

[@seane6500]

It would be even cheaper if you used tax free off-road diesel.

[@musicbox4022]

It would be cool to have the big trailer battery pack on wheels with a big solar array on the top and sides of the trailer. The panels could be extended outward when parked.

[@RyanCrampton-xn8lt]

Sunbelt Rentals has a 30kW / 150kWh 6000lbs BESS on a trailer and we can even put a 50kW DC charger on it for you.

[@DanClark-lq3qs]

Have Freewire design a trailer with a lower profile and use their battery and dc charger as your support system. Also use as rescue charger for towing services.

[@mrmawson2438]

Hydrogen is like driving around with a BIG explosion

[@vincentrobinette1507]

My biggest fear with Hydrogen, is the pressurized cylinders, having nothing to do with the flammability of the Hydrogen gas!

[@gerhardk98]

The Big Bang theory.

[@johnpoldo8817]

If Kyle pays about 10 cents, a CPO with demand charges probably pays a commercial rate of about $0.20/kWh. They charge us $0.60 to achieve a 3 yr payback period on the high cost for equipment and installation. We need CPOs to replace gas stations where profit is made on snacks, beverages, and other impulse items in the store. That’s when we’ll get lower DC FAST charging rates.

[@scottkahre9206]

This highlights the need for more competition in the DCFC space. Need big signs out front advertising the $/kwh just like dino juice. This situation with 10x electricity markup has to change if EV adoption is going to continue.

[@mikerpm4x4]

I daily and ecoboost f150. I get 19mpg tops at 70 mph

[@jeffbransky7966]

Bogus comparison. Depreciation of all the equipment to generate and deliver electricity through the grid is included in the cost of charging a vehicle on public chargers. Also included is the cost and depreciation of the charging station plus a markup to make a profit. Your diesel charging scheme omits all the cost of the equipment and depreciation to charge an electric truck with diesel. If your scheme made any sense, diesel generators would be installed at public charging stations bypassing the grid.

[@havnfunb4]

Sorry my initial comment was in liters and I didn’t realize it was in gallons. It would have been 238 liters which at $1.85 here in Canada would have cost $440 can dollars

[@jackylsmith8138]

Just get a Ford F-150 Powerboost to charge the vehicles. Gas is way cheaper than diesel right now.

[@lxoxrxexnx]

The generator on the diesel likely has a conversion efficiency of about 90%; and the charging efficiency is also about 90%; swag. So it’s no surprise that the electric vehicle can’t go as far as a diesel vehicle on the same amount of fuel.

[@vr4042]

Dude, why not build a trailer with 120KWH of batteries and attach that charger you have. that is about $50,000 in batteries and controllers. And should be about 1,600 pounds plus the trailer.

[@teardowndan5364]

35% fuel-to-DC efficiency is pretty low. If you integrated a DC fast-charger with Mainspring's free piston linear generator to skip the DC-AC-DC conversions, you'd get close to 50%.

[@redhat421]

Are you thinking about electrical conversion losses only? Extracting more useful energy out of the combustion engine would be hard, right?

[@teardowndan5364]

@@redhat421 Mainspring's AC generators achieve 45% net fuel-to-480Vac out efficiency. That includes all of the ancillary loads for running the engine and output AC inverter losses. A version designed specifically for DC fast-charging would eliminate the inverter and separate fast-charging equipment, connecting the EV's battery straight to the generator's HVDC output after safety checks and parameter exchange. ~30% of a conventional ICE's energy is wasted as friction between rods, bearings, piston skirts rubbing against cylinder walls, overcoming oil viscosity, etc. With a free-piston linear generator like Mainspring's, there are no crank shafts, no cam shafts, no valves, no conrods to eject through its nonexistent crank case and no engine oil. It uses pneumatic bearings to keep the pistons straight and the only significant friction loss left is the ~8% from compression rings. The only way to increase efficiency much beyond this would be to work on the ~33% of tailpipe losses, which would require increasing the power stroke volume to extract more thermal expansion work. Only problem is you can recover about 10% more energy from doubling the expansion chamber size, which isn't very practical. It has been attempted in modified conventional engines and the extra complexity ate the gains. Mainspring is supposedly doing some degree of extra expansion in its linear generators. 50% net is probably the practical limit for "portable" applications.

[@PeaceChanel]

.. Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤

[@markfitzpatrick6692]

Francie I like you have a lightening bolt next to your name . We have a hs in Ohio called the philo Electrics. And they are yellow and blue . The school was named after a electric power plant that was one of the 1st in the 1900’s

[@johnpoldo8817]

What does a 50kW battery pack cost? If not too expensive & too heavy, buy 4 for 200kW.

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Kyle get a model 3 battery pack to energize a synrm hairpin motor to spin generator charging mobile go w/dat idea

[@primoroy]

Most people don't care about the "politics", people look at the out of pocket cost! $8/doz free range eggs vs $2/doz cage eggs!

[@mrmawson2438]

Hello Francie and Kyle

[@COSolar6419]

Did you account for the full cost of the generator? I didn’t think so. I am disappointed in you guys.

[@HeavenGuy]

Mount a freewire boost charger with a diesel generator...

[@alanmay7929]

Diesel engines are actually significantly more efficient than petrol ones and well over 40% efficient

[@teardowndan5364]

The most efficient gasoline engines are approaching 50%. It is mainly about how much engineering and hardware you can afford to throw at it.

[@dstylez1171]

Did you calculate health and air costs?...and when fuel prices rise will it still be cheaper?.

[@AkioWasRight]

Electricity rates also go up in price. Its generation also creates emissions.

[@dstylez1171]

@AkioWasRight the pollution created just to refine crude oil not to mention the resources used just to get it to your pump...electricity will become the cheapest resource soon with the initiatives in place....stop making Saudi rich and don't let OPeC dictate your transportation costs...they are building a clean city with it

[@bradbeckett3800]

Kyle - would be cool to make your own trailer with eg4 server rack batteries. Maybe collaborate with someone that does electrical. Maybe will prowse. Also think you’d probably get a bunch of views with that content. Maybe throw some solar panels on it too.

[@andrewt9204]

Yeah, assuming the Autel can take 240V single phase, you could get 7 EG4 6000xp in parallel and minimum 12 server rack batteries. You're looking at $26k dollars though. Too lazy do do the math, but you could probably cut that down to ~20K if you built your own packs with raw cells. Packaging them securely would be a lot of work though.

[@bradbeckett3800]

@@andrewt9204 new sponsorship haha.

[@urbanstrencan]

Interesting but not too surprising, that generator is cheaper 🤔

[@My-MD-Videos]

Whenever you convert from one energy source to another, there are losses to consider. The benefit with EV is that you can convert multiple energy sources to electricity. Gasoline is just that… gasoline

[@eugenem5244]

Gasoline is a fossil fuel. Fossil fuels are what generator most electricity in the world.

[@Dillingham-]

Even Kyle has gone hybrid 😂

[@Dive-Bar-Casanova]

Redneck hybrid

[@mrmawson2438]

Cybertruck filling a diesel Generator 🤣

[@badbasic]

To get oil? I don't wanna do that and get invaded by the Americans😅

[@jimmingus2179]

Why not just get a diesel truck with a diesel engine in it?

[@davidws5439]

Yea, right, $3,600.00 to rent it for two weeks. You should have bought Westinghouse WGen20000c 20000W/28000W Generator Low THD 50 Amp Remote Start Gas with CO Sensor This cost the same money, and you would have owned it to use many times and home backup power. You buy an engine lift to pick it up or trailer it. No, you spent a hell of a lot more money with your very poor choice.

[@jakecease]

It seems to me that Edison motors has the best idea for trucks. Smallish battery with diesel generator feeding power into the battery. For my lifestyle a 1/2 ton pickup with about 100 miles of ev range and a diesel or gas generator would make all the sense in the world. And wouldn’t impact the grid nearly as much as 200kw plus battery’s And it would eliminate (mostly) the cold weather concerns.

[@jamesbruce1183]

So when figuring the cost of charging with the diesel did you include the cost of the diesel rent and DC charger? Oh OK just the diesel fuel? An economist would call BS on this. It's like saying charging your car on solar is free when you actually had to pay to have the solar installed but you neglect that cost. C'mon Kyle and Co. Do better.

[@tedmoss]

It is definitely not cheaper if you include all the costs, some of which we all pay since the diesel is subsidized. Its like saying the cost of electricity is just the cost of the extension cord. Dumb people will now go out and buy a diesel generator and think they are saving money.

[@eugenem5244]

Same can be said for people who buy $80,000 EV "work" trucks. Smart people buy just regular diesel trucks.

[@michaelharmon5991]

$0.08 per KWH sounds way cheap. I live in Tennessee and we pay about $0.13 . I'm an engineer and solar power/battery storage specialist and as such I am sensitive to utility rates when I see them come up in discussions.. For a mobile charging solution with a small generator you could use a battery pack of about 1 1/2 times your truck battery size and use the small generator to charge this over a longer time period. This would allow for a smaller generator and still have the power to pump a charge into the truck as fast as it could take it. This approach shouldn't be all that heavy. The battery would be less than 3000 lbs even using LFP batteries. Of course the cost of this extra battery would be way up there. Maybe near $25 to $30k.

[@user-yq9em4ns4d]

And you call yourself an engineer?

[@mrmawson2438]

Lol I bet the Hummer will go far 🤣

[@dennisdickinson8337]

And it's worse with renewables We can only get and use less than 20% of their advertised maximum rated output It's called ohm's law

[@ronaldking1054]

No, solar's maximum rating output is 1 hour at noon. This is why there are solar almanacs that show approximately how many noon-hours exist at a particular location. Wind is rated at a particular wind speed, which is not constant. By the way, typically, the efficiency is 30%, and not 20%.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

@@ronaldking1054 when you're talking about solar efficiency they're only talking about the footprint the size of it and how many watts it puts out not what we're talking about Okay have you ever a car battery charger & Do you have a volt amp meter

[@dennisdickinson8337]

I'm talking about ohm's law and how we can only use less than 20% are the panels output once hooked to battery or charger Ohm's law 102

[@ronaldking1054]

@@dennisdickinson8337 Cool, so transmission lines with a loss of 5% are amazing in your world. Those lines have internal resistances as well.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

@@ronaldking1054 not talking about that Why avoid my questions. Do you have a volt amp meter. Ohms law shows us electricity is like water Here in our world We must overcome in coming pressures

[@rossr6616]

How common are folks running out of SOC out on the road? We never have in 13 EV years.

[@audislowroad]

In Columbia, SC I see Teslas on the side of the road often, assuming mostly out of SOC.

[@teardowndan5364]

The first time I borrowed my mother's Bolt EV for a little road trip test, I almost got stranded due to the range guesstimator being ~35km off - I was supposed to have at least 135km of range available with 105km to the charger, had no margin left by the time I had 30km left to go. Turned on hazard lights, slowed down to 70km/h, turned down ventilation to the minimum to prevent window fogging when the reduced power warning poped up. Not 100% certain but I think I spotted the "park soon" warning on the way up the overpass to the charger. I have no trouble at all imagining people being less fortunate with their range guesstimators. The joys of having only one charging spot with four units on a 250km trip with an EV that only has 150km of fast-chargeable range.

[@marc0443]

The cost to the environment posed by diesel needs to be considered. I’ve heard that air pollution in the atmosphere causes about 10,000 deaths in the United States annually.

[@mrmawson2438]

lmao you are making ne Hybrids