It's time to STOP using these plugins!

[@DomSigalas]

Ok so some people missed the point of this video ❤ I never said old plugins are not good. On the contrary. I also miss some old VST2 plugins (PCM Lexicon and Virtual Guitarist are just two examples)! But unlike an old Moog or Juno hardware synth that will keep working indefinitely as long as you can service it, a plugin (in time) will require a: -Working License (if you have one 😂) -legacy DAW -LegacyOS -old PC than can run the above and works If you can dedicate an old machine to run legacy plugins for the next 10-15 years, then all good🎉- but most users won’t be able to do this and will end up not being able to open their projects unless they bounce multitracks. Which is EXACTLY what I suggest if you want to use old school plugins :) This was the point of the video. Not to diss old amazing plugins. Also, if you're interested to see just one of the HUGE benefits of VST3 check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoqmqJmEgtCLhbc I am glad to see how passionate we all are about plugins though ❤❤❤

[@mrdali67]

It's kinda the same as having an old Atari ST sitting in the corner just because everyone had it in the old days and the midi clock was superior to a Windows 3.11 midi clock. it's nearly 4 decades ago .. move on .. lol. I also loved my Atari ST and Pro 24 😘 I also greatly respect people like Esben Kraft that lives in the 80's still or at least tries to stay old school.There definitely is magic about how things was done back then.

[@marcusstrymon693]

Dom what is the song callled where you played with the rodes in the retrospective record video? I tried to find it desperately

[@DomSigalas]

@@marcusstrymon693 Oh man, I think this was just an improvisation!

[@compingharry]

@@mrdali67 I do not miss the external Harddrive the size of a sidewalk tile for my Atari Mega STE4 😁

[@mrdali67]

@@compingharry Ya and that Sidewalk tile had a size of 30Mb. I remember carrying both + the SM124 Monitor around for gigs

[@oriomenoni7651]

I am still using some VST2 plugins and have ZERO problems with them.

[@billsimpson1085]

@@oriomenoni7651 yes. I run a bit of and older version of Cubase on an older computer and it still does more than I want it to do. Why would I continue to pay money for something that’s “bigger and better”?

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

Yeah. VST3 is 16 years old and they still haven't fixed the MIDI timing issues.

[@ScoringStageEu]

still using 32bit VSTs using JBridger 😀 "Accuracy, Side-chaining, lousy programming" etc. is not an argument to me. It's the sound that matters which is coming out in the end.

[@Todzuum]

Lol I’m guilty , mcdsp v6 and metric halo v3 , never upgraded works fine for me I love these plugins

[@jbrassic5434]

"It's the sound that matters which is coming out in the end." Yeah this 👌

[@dpixvid]

@@ScoringStageEu yeah some of those old 32 bit plugins don’t exist anymore... JBridge isn’t 100% but still better than totally gone

[@mesqaentertainment]

its all about stability

[@mrdali67]

@@mesqaentertainment Ya there was a good reason for Steinberg to drop 32bit support. I remember crying about not being able to use VB3 anymore tho untill the new version came .. took them long enough. Lucky I still have my Mojo61 🥰

[@ConfusioNIntrusioN]

forget about vst, CLAP should be the future of plugins tbh. however i still use vst both 32 and 64 bit using jbridge, so many epic plugins that are not being remade today

[@midiman5045]

Clap is awesome.

[@Supermaannnn]

I see CLAP, I install.

[@sussyjagras]

I also got the CLAP

[@BillyBatsonMarvel]

Saying move on from the past while wearing a T-120 VHS jacket is nasty work.

[@joelcarloaymat]

😂☠

[@AMBIOSIS]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@ruudheadz7095]

😂😂😂

[@BigMTBrain]

🤣🤣🤣

[@axoplanet6081]

Tech and style are two different things

[@deplinenoise]

The real reason VST2 is still relevant is that VST3 made a mess of MIDI events. You simply can’t make a full featured editor for an external synth/rack unit with a midi protocol using VST3 because Steinberg removed the APIs and are not interested in midi anymore.

[@BeatsAndMeats]

Really???? I did not know that!

[@midnightwind8067]

Seriously? This is interesting

[@shaboogen]

Beyond this, there's also the licensing garbage that Steinberg may potentially enforce in future (which is why VST2 is gone in the first place). This sort of stuff is what led Urs Heckmann and Bitwig to create the CLAP format in the first place.

[@SYCHR0N]

That's the main reason I hear for people staying with VST2: sample accurate midi timing is not possible with VST3 due to how some buffers work. It's all geared towards DAW automation, but accurate MIDI control suffered.

[@SoundSurrealStudio]

I like vst2.. it is more analog and retro.. it works for synthwave... maybe you should tell your steinberg boss to get bac to the basixs and suppport vst2.4 protocol that just works.. vst3 is rubbish and unstable

[@AdamBondAudio]

I'm sorry but forced obsolescence is rarely a good thing, especially when people have paid good money for plugins.

[@DomSigalas]

Nothing is forced. If you’re a professional you’re probably already using plugins that are properly supported. And VST3 has been around for over 15 years. I wouldn’t call this forced in any way in any universe :)

[@AdamBondAudio]

@@DomSigalas I disagree. Further, Steinberg has recently forced users to upgrade to their new licensing system (or risk losing an affordable upgrade path). Yes, I am a professional and have earned my living from music production for many years. Many of my plugins are still supported, but some are not. With respect, your opinion on this matter could easily be biased by your professional relationship with Steinberg, IMHO.

[@DomSigalas]

@@AdamBondAudio this is not biased- I’ve been saying this since VST3 came out and had zero contacts or relationships with Steinberg. I have been asking plugin companies for VST3 versions since the first years that VST3 emerged. Of course you don’t know me in-person and I cannot convince you. It’s very easy to complain about Steinberg but they didn’t force any customer or developer to switch to VST3 when it was released 16 years ago. Apple would have/did Avid would have/did. So yes you have every right to complain and I will stand behind my opinion that it’s time to move on if you want to future proof your projects as a professional. I had unpopular opinions since the times of FireWire when people were upset when I was saying that they shouldn’t bother with FW anymore and go USB. Many people were outraged but there was no KZbin so… Years later and history proved me right. Technology gets updated. 16 years is long enough- that’s my opinion - even if we want it or not we cannot stop progress. Thank you for the respectful conversation ❤️

[@AdamBondAudio]

@@DomSigalas Thank you for your considered and respectful reply - to be fair you raise some valid points! 🙂 I still don't like software I have purchased to be made obsolete though so perhaps we can agree to differ on that point...! 😄😉 Peace ❤️

[@DomSigalas]

@@AdamBondAudio I don’t like it either. But we do not live in a perfect world. It’s actually one of the reasons I use so much hardware in my studio too! ❤️

[@TonyThomas10000]

From Steve Duda at Xfer (2022): "I'm not sure about Cthulhu, due to VST3 lacking proper MIDI out handling. Eveything else is being actively worked on, but there is a good window of time ahead, stability is of course important and Steinberg will probably honor the 24 months ahead before dropping VST2 from their products. "It really is a bizarre situation to remove something time-tested and working, VST3 offers no clear technical benefit (the touted user-facing improvements such as sample-accurate automation are not even implemented in virtually all VST3 plugins, and could have been extended to VST2). Fortunately for most users other than Steinberg users, VST2 support should be around for a long time."

[@DomSigalas]

Yeah, Serum actually was one of the plugins that took ages to be updated to VST3 (and was for ages in beta). I don’t know why that is - as a user I know that super complex plugins are already in VST3 and work flawlessly 🤷‍♂️ Here’s an excellent article from Audio modelling which suggests otherwise. And these guys know how to make plugins for sure :) kb.audiomodeling.com/en/c/grow-your-knowledge/d/what-is-vst-whats-the-difference-between-vst-vst2-and-vst3/

[@Greek_Lord]

I completely disagree! I will continue using VST2 and 32-bit VSTs with jBridge for as long as I can-actually, forever-for many of the reasons you mentioned, and then some. To be honest, I never had much respect for your opinion, but now I’ve lost whatever little respect I had left. You can’t just tell people to STOP using something that works perfectly fine and can easily coexist with newer technology. The supposed advantages, like sample-accurate automation, aren’t even relevant to everyone. In the video, you say "in my humble opinion," which is completely at odds with the clickbait "STOP using" title. And your comment about abandoning VST2 plug-ins 6-7 years ago because a developer didn’t release a VST3 version? That just shows you don’t value your pre-6 years compositions, and you’ve accepted the fact that you can’t open them again. I, on the other hand, still use Roland VSTis in VST2.4 format. The 3.7 version isn’t compatible with any previous projects, meaning I can’t use the VST3 D-50 in older compositions. There’s no way in hell I’m spending hours reprogramming everything to VST3, only to do it again when VST4 inevitably drops. By the way, you still keep analog gear in your studio, right? Why? By your ridiculous logic, you should ditch them immediately and STOP using them. And what’s next? Should people throw out their rare records because they’re "outdated" too?

[@veenhond]

yeah "in my humble opinion" / "STOP USING" is a nice 2024 example of an amalgam of ragebait, clickbait, entitlement, faux-youtube production advice, a bit of patronizing and to top it off hidden sponsored content :') i get his point that vst2 is getting old but who cares? what's the motivation to peptalk people into ditching software they've paid for and projects they've worked on?

[@anubhavlangthasa4203]

If it ain't broke don't fix it is my philosophy. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, well then maybe upgrade. There is a place for both the techs to co-exist. Just bcz something new and shiny exists doesn't diminish the value of the older tech. This "elitist douche" mentality is what's gonna get in the way of my creativity coz honestly I run out of creativity way sooner than the capabilities of my "older tech". Again to each their own. Peace ✌🏻

[@Yuusou.]

There's one information you were missing on the developer rant about them being slow to adapt: at some point, Steinberg did not offer VST2 licenses anymore, so any new plugin had to be using VST3. This forced the hands of many developers to move towards VST3 and Steinberg were really annoyed that the new standard did not catch on automatically.

[@DomSigalas]

@@ghfjfghjasdfasdfhave the “balls” to respond to what exactly? 🤣 Aren’t 16 years long enough? 😁 I don’t know what the source is about the licenses, but do you know any other companies that have a new format and keep supporting an old one for so long? Look at ProTools and RTAS. Did they ask permission from anyone? Nope! Steinberg was quite generous with their support of 2.4- if they did it the Apple way, VST2.4 would be history in less than a year. I don’t see developers moaning about Apple changing things on every OS (well, they do actually 🤣 ) But they just get down to work and support their plugins. We were not entitled to VST2.4 being supported for so many years after VST3 was an option. That’s my own 100% personal opinion. Let’s celebrate the nice things a company does instead of forcing things down our necks. It’s 2024 and we can still use VST2. :)

[@LumiosNoctis]

and people even ended up making open source vst2 sdks instead lol

[@julesc8054]

Seeing those old VST 1 plugins brought tears to my eyes. If i could i would still use my favorite Steinberg vst 1 multiband comoressor plugin. It could comoress, expand, auto eq, soft clip, limit, gate and highpass with 4 simple lines in a square box. Oh yes and add multiple thresholds and ratios per band. I used it to get great presence auto eq vo. It made it all the way to 2011.

[@LuvHrtZ]

I stopped using my Powercore 6000 and my Liquid Mix years ago due to Steinberg no longer supporting 32-bit plugins, and the producers of said HW stopped supporting them. JBridge hasn't worked well up to this point, but I've discovered that Reaper can still run that hardware and those plugins. 🥰

[@mvqx2209]

Liquid Mix was good back in the day?

[@Art_Of_Sound]

@@mvqx2209 still is hehe. So is Steinberg/Houpert Multiband...still king of compressors...by a long way. I have to run SX as a plugin to use it but not many know the deal

[@LuvHrtZ]

PS> I managed to get my Liquid Mix working again. It only took a suggestion from the programmer of JBridge and one check mark in the settings. To think I could have still been using this for all the years it spent s a door stop. The Powercore is a different matter though, its drivers won't install under Windows 10. They will work if you install it under windows 7 and then upgrade to '10'. Not worth the effort TBH.

[@iam-music]

@@LuvHrtZ I had my powercore working no probs/w10/Jbridge...I just loved the VSS* but now its a plugin; I did new daw hardware and only 2 slots capable of those old boards and had 2 UAD and 1 powercore :-(

[@LuvHrtZ]

@@iam-music Yeah but the drivers don't install under W10, but you have to install it on W7 and upgrade to W10. I've got the native plugz too. The PC6000 plugs aren't quite up there these days.

[@shthouserat]

the "developers have had time to update it" and "you can find something similar" arguments ignore all of the plugins just made by individuals who made a one off creative thing to suit their particular needs and shared for free, or the companies who did make it for profit but don't exist anymore to update it. the user shouldn't lose functionality because the maker is no longer around. also, dismissing the idea that there's anything special or unique about any plugin if it can just eventually be replaced. like, do you ask why anyone would hang on to classic hardware synth when they could just get a modern clone instead?

[@ronmarek1548]

Your arguments are invalid. Shame on the individuals! They have had 16th years to update. If you are are developer you have to be up-to-date otherwise you will lose money and reputation.

[@veenhond]

@@ronmarek1548 a tool is a tool, no matter if it's updated to modern standards or not. if i want to use a quill and ink to write a book, i'm going to

[@ryanelfman3520]

CLAP is the future

[@Justin_the_Analog_IC_architect]

It's not the users that need to hear this, by and large. It's the developers. I'm looking at you Black Rooster! Black Rooster a company that only has VST 2 plugins that was founded AFTER VST2 was retired. You can't make this stuff up. One thing I really hate seeing is that developers quite often give VST 3 plugins a slightly different name to the VST 2 counterpart. Sometimes it's a typo, sometimes it seems intentional. It's ALWAYS aggravating! Cubase will pickup a VST 3 of an old mix with only VST 2 plugins if the VST 3 exists, and has the same name. When developers adhere to standards (they can make their own!) this all works seamlessly - but instead they needlessly break things.

[@sergioflores5565]

Couldn't agree more. Simply porting projects from an old machine has become a nightmare because of this 🤮

[@pw6002]

"One thing I really hate seeing is that developers quite often give VST 3 plugins a slightly different name to the VST 2 counterpart" Never saw that. On which plugin for example ?

[@SYCHR0N]

I know some more vendors who deliberately chose to offer VST 2 plugins instead of VST 3 because of several limitations VST 3 introduced, especially when it comes to MIDI handling.

[@yeahthatkornel]

@@SYCHR0N what limitations?

[@Justin_the_Analog_IC_architect]

@@SYCHR0N That's a bit odd since one of the reasons VST3 was developed was for better MIDI handling over VST2.

[@WujiErTaiji]

The screenshots gave me some serious nostalgia. I also remember in 2008 when VST3 came out people really hated it.

[@tonio892]

JBRIDGE is the answer to this topic. Simply use it to run 32bit VST2 vintage plugins in your modern and up-to-date 64bit daw. I'm still using Steinberg's Magneto to this day! Works like a breeze and if set up correctly it's also light on the CPU... So no need to "move on", just to dig deeper and stick to our favourite effects with the help of some useful programs. 😊

[@MassimoBoscoMusic]

I just stopped using updated products instead, starting from Windows. I know what I need to run my studio and until it works I stick with it.

[@Eufeion]

So what about classics like the Juno X2 & other classics? Only way to use these in Cubase is by using J-Bridge

[@yeahthatkornel]

get new pluginsd that sound the same or better.

[@Poccu9IHuH]

You forgot about DX plugins, that were before VST. Steinberg just made it way more easier.

[@Slayd5000]

@@Poccu9IHuH This!! 👍🏾

[@cfbarrerap]

I'm still in love with the old Cubase VST 32 5 ❤❤❤

[@jansenbrown3435]

that version was soo good hey

[@mphomatlou3923]

I have them with the big printer port dongle. I also have SX3 and Cubase 5. I was so quick on them with the keyboard shortcuts and hot keys. Hardly ever had to use the mouse. I really miss Windows XP man.

[@bomboclaat9215]

Yeah, the cracked version was way more stable than the original Cubase 12 and 13 😢

[@QuantecHP]

some things don’t have a good vst3 brother, best example is the Steinberg quadrafuzz. I need this all the time

[@DomSigalas]

@@QuantecHP there’s Quadrafuzz II at the moment and it’s a mind blowing plugin that people still sleep on :) trust me you will never go back to Quadrafuzz 1 :)

[@JHerron549]

Quadrafuzz 2 is on nearly every mix I do. I never experienced the old one but I can’t imagine it was better than the current version.

[@timofuturum]

totally agreed, quadrafuzz v2 isnt just the same...

[@QuantecHP]

@@DomSigalas quadrafuzz 2 doesn’t come close especially for psy trance baselines

[@DomSigalas]

@@QuantecHPif you’ve found the sweet spot with your setup then this is fine. But it’s not going to work forever guaranteed. I know many hardstyle producers that have switched to QF2 and Distroyer or even other plugins altogether. And at what cost? We’re talking about a 32but plugin that requires jBridge to run- in my experience: crashes galore 😅 But if it works for you and it’s a vital part of your sound I totally understand you want to stick with it for as long as physically possible ❤

[@annother3350]

"Please stop using synths from the 70s, they dont support midi"!!! I love that FM7 plugin and reinstalled it recently. FM8 just isnt the same

[@DomSigalas]

Synths without MIDI still work :) The FM7 won’t work at some point sadly :( You will need to keep an old computer with an old OS and old DAW to run it :(

[@oriomenoni7651]

@@DomSigalas Let's worry about this when that time comes, OK?

[@DomSigalas]

@@oriomenoni7651yes, but if you want to make sure your projects will still open at least bounce- don’t wait until it’s too late. I’ve done this in the past and it’s not a nice experience . I was the one warning people about FireWire dying some 12,years ago- back then everyone was saying that I had no clue- where is FireWire now? It’s not bad to plan ahead 😊

[@annother3350]

@@DomSigalas Thats what they said about Commodore 64 games but now we have emulators

[@DomSigalas]

@@annother3350I would be more than happy if there were (stable) emulators of old school plugins. I am so nostalgic about them (it took me ages to gather photos of all the plugins I used to use that I show on this video) ❤️

[@synthplayer1563]

Before promoting VST3 so strongly, Steinberg should first solve its problems with excessive performance spikes in Cubase.

[@DomSigalas]

@@synthplayer1563 I don’t promote anything. I just state the facts. This is a protocol that has been around for over 15 years - doesn’t need me to promote it. About spikes: I would check with the developer first before going to Steinberg. None of the plugins I use (and I use hundreds) exhibits spikes. Are you sure you don’t experience DPC spikes?

[@SenseiKreese]

Vst3 is old and lacking itself. There's no way for the plugins to talk to each other with it, which is why Sonible Smart EQ has to use a networking protocol. The industry really needs to fix this, because plugins communicating with each other properly really opens up doors, especially with all this neural stuff now.

[@claudiobackoficial]

The industry doesn't improve almost anything, it just adds products and products so that there is non-stop consumption, just profit, this becomes a loop, for years I haven't been able to see the solution in the audio, we have to spend loads of money to keep changing solutions that These are problems, without bugs and increasingly heavier, bigger and more expensive, making us slaves to consumption. updating all the time is a lack of emotional and financial control, we have to make music, create more and consume less, you can make music without having to get into this meaningless routine, the opinion and the videos are cooler, from here in Brazil I follow your content Always, health and prosperity to the entire community

[@Moessieurs]

Very instructive and clear Dom, thank you 👍

[@DomSigalas]

Thank you Joël ❤️

[@norbertwork6659]

I replaced all my plugins when I switched to Apple Silicone Mac. Interestingly enough, I ended up using way more stock Cubase effects. I can understand that some people really like certain old plugins, but for me it's not worth the hassle of trying to make them work.

[@axoplanet6081]

👍 me too

[@jazzdirt]

Delay Lama was made in the school I attended (pretty much as a joke, and a proof of concept).. As was Altiverb (which was rather more serious)... Audioease was actually started by fellow students who were fascinated by convolution/impulse thingies.. They were also traveling everywhere to record impulses of concert halls that no longer exist today... Like the old Vredenburg in Utrecht (which wasn't all that much travel, since the company is based in Utrecht).. But they went around the world to collect impulses of iconic venues...

[@pnutbuttajellee1394]

I really just wish Cubase would have a good plugin sandbox that will not crash your whole project even with VST3 plugins that have issues. Just because it's VST3 does not guarantee its going to work good.

[@truthtorpedo99]

When i upgraded from cubase 7 to 13 i found out about the vst2 problem. I decided to go with vst3 only, after fighting to include vst2 and having massive performance problems. Now use stock cubase wherever possible and vst3 only for remaining plugins

[@mantaproject]

Blue Cat's Patchwork if you need to use an old VST 2.4

[@nvelopestudio]

Doing this video you put me inside a pleasant time machine. Of days of old but warm, more creative and not so stressful! Missed those snapshots of the old steinberg DAW. As always I really like your content!

[@contraspower6302]

Missing ur intro music in ur recent videos. Your intro music always gives me goosebumps 🔥🔥🔥. Wish you’d break it down for us one day.

[@SteamvilleQuintet]

VST2s are why I keep Ableton 12 on my machine, because THEY figured out how to keep 2s AND 3s alive and well. While the inventors of the VST couldn't or wouldn't. Long live the VST2 DubTurbo DrumTROOP in my studio!

[@bulkvanderhuge9006]

There are some plugins out there, where there isn't a choice, such as the awesome soundscape generators made by HG Fortune. He died a few years ago.

[@nofunclub2604]

Agree with the main point here and am also trying to phase out all vst 2.4 plugins for compatibility and simplicity of life purposes. Unfortunately there are just very few companies that care about this type of long term compatibility. Companies will go out of business, new formats will likely come and go, formats for project files will change, new versions of plugins will be incompatible with projects using old versions OR they will be compatible but they won't sound exactly the same as the older versions did... The best solutions I've found is to keep my old computers around for legacy projects and just get in the habit of freezing or committing to audio anything that I'm done tweaking, so that when I open old projects, it's mostly just audio and very few plugins.

[@dani.papaya]

Worthfull advise and time journey. I wish you were my history teacher when I was in school haha

[@udooelgeschlager1557]

Using Cubase13 and agree with what Dom is saying. But with a silent smile I love the way my old plugs (include DelayLama) still work with C13 (not using JBRIDGE). I like having all this new features etc. coming from VST3 but every now an then I'm in love with those old sounds. I'm not a pro and not a sound-designer. Like to use presets and customise them a bit. Sometimes those easy old ones are still great and still there and I don't have to waste time to find an alternative.

[@tomwatson283]

For me, and I stress "for me". Vst2 to vst 3 has been a nightmare. From Cubase 11 to 13 things have been going worse for me. I don't know if it's Steinberg or the other companies using vst3. Sadly it has not worked for any of my "stuff". I've been fobbed off by Steinberg saying it's the plugin manufacturers fault, the plugin manufacturers saying it's not their fault to, "maybe it's machine specific to me". Either way it's not been a good experience. My machine, and Cubase worked fine with 2.4. Here's hoping for a consistent future. And not change for the sake of change.

[@DomSigalas]

Thank you for sharing your experience! I have to agree on this though: 99% of the times my Cubase crashes is due to a dodgy plugin. I have stopped using plugins altogether because they were not stable. No DAW has control over the code a plugin manufacturer writes. I have made a full video on how to report bugs - the no.1 rule is first get rid of any plugins and see if the bug still occurs :)

[@tomwatson283]

@@DomSigalas Constant unneeded Windows updates also do not help.

[@DomSigalas]

@@tomwatson283 no these definitely not help 😂 I always find a way to stop them on my machine 😁

[@tomwatson283]

@@DomSigalas I'm not that clever with software or tech. I have to cope with things as they happen.

[@yeahthatkornel]

@@tomwatson283 just find a video on how to stop feature updates (not security ones) on windows. it's doable.

[@MatrockRecords]

Just another shout-out for JBridge. I'm using my favorite old 32 bit vst2 plugins in 64 bit Cubase 14 with no issues.

[@synthplayer1563]

VST3 does not support pure MIDI and SysEx. That is the biggest mistake. This means that you cannot build pure MIDI plugins and you cannot process SysEx for and from hardware synthesizers. A similar problem is in the Note Expression Framework which does not support native MPE but does its own thing. So some MPE synths have some problems.

[@Roger-c1q6r]

Yet worse, AU does.

[@fertilesound_]

I remember most of those plugins, thanks for the unexpected nostalgia trip. I think the original Quadrafuzz is the one I miss the most - I still can’t seem to find a suitable replacement. In any case, 25-year Cubase veteran here, but I still learn something new every time I watch your vids! Thanks Dom!

[@MarvelJAM]

Great one! I would also like to add that VST2 to VST3 upgrade is automatic if the developer uses: "the state persistence is described in the FAQ section in the documentation. A plug-in has to set the VST3 parameter ID to the index of the VST2 parameter when updated to VST3. Otherwise automation is not compatible (Arne_Scheffler via Steinberg forums)" I was blown away to learn that remapping your parameters to the VST3 spec could be automatic to the end user. In theory, this could mean no older broken projects.

[@Cthorthu]

Wait, the announcement was from January 2022, and it said "within the next 24 months, Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only". Do we know when VST2 non-compatibility will be enforced? I have a work in progress project and I would like to be able to finish it without headaches.

[@Cthorthu]

@@AdamElteto Not while having a work in progress project XD

[@Uncle-Jonas]

The easy answer is do not update and keep using the version you have and when your work is finnished you can update 😉 I guess they will remove Vst2 support soon Since he is promoting VST3 for a Reason which is to ease you into accepting Steinbergs Change when it happens. So maybe V14 will be the version that Drops Vst2.

[@DomSigalas]

Keep using the versions you’re using :) what DAW do you use? Cubase allows you to have multiple versions installed on the same system . And by the way, no DAW will support VST2.4 soon so switching daw makes zero difference :)

[@Cthorthu]

@@DomSigalas I'm in Cubase 13 What do you think? This will happen in Cubase 13 or in Cubase 14?

[@DomSigalas]

@@CthorthuI find it highly unlikely that anything will change in C13! Obviously, it’s Steinberg’s decision but I wouldn’t be worried about your C13 projects. 😊

[@jiteshmahato3421]

very helpful facts, thanks dom

[@Gekneveld]

Thanks for this video. My first software synth was included on Aegis Sonix (1987) which came with my second hand Amiga in the beginning of the 90s. The machine also came with an 8bit audio sampler. I used Stereo Master to apply real time effects on my voice. Midi timing was rather good but not as good as on my friends ST. Both were better than a lot of midi timjng that I have experienced on some modern pc's in the home studios of friends (and my own). I (almost) never experienced these problems with older pc's, even Amiga's. Something

[@jacekjmazur]

I got you Brother. I was holding so tight to the Edirol Orchestra (which btw you have shown on 1:34 and my heart skipped a beat cause of nostalgia) when I was still using FLStudio. Thing was crashing every 30mins, but sounded great. Also I had to set all the instruments manually after each time I have opened a project (plugin loaded with the default flute sound). When I think about it now it's kinda funny, but I did manage to somehow finish stuff with it. After I have decided that I need to change to Cubase (as it was simply better for things I do) I have learned that I can't use Edirol Orchestral anymore and I was devastated. Few weeks passed, I have looked around and invested some money in EastWest symphonic plugins and I've never looked back since. My first rule since has been: 'new is always better'. True story.

[@salcarusomusic]

That was a great video Dom !!!✌💜

[@antoinemontmory]

Very good video, thanks Dom ! - Don't wait : save your project as audio files and move on ! - For my first orchestral project ' POUR UN DOLLAR DE MOIN ', I only used Cubase's EQ for the instruments. - There are many ways to create a unique sound without plugins.

[@thirdmanzither9605]

There IS no replacement for the Delay Lama!!! Seriously, I used to show my 3-year-old daughter the Delay Lama, and it got a lot of laughs. She's 27 now. If THAT doesn't prove your point, I don't know what does. We would love software to behave like hardware, working perfectly after 50 years, but software is not in the same category as hardware and we have to deal with it accordingly.

[@DomSigalas]

Hahaha Delay Lama was the BEST ❤️ Takes me back- pure nostalgia!

[@Viking_2016]

Pure nostalgia? ..... disagreeing to 100% .... think again! 😎

[@SwetStet]

Hi Dom totally agreed, i use vst system link for my powercores and older plugins on cubase studio 4. Please dont take that away.

[@lyh1]

I am on LMMS, until they have offical solution I will just stay with vst2 not vst3. The problem is the protocal should backward compitable, otherwise why not use clap or other format?

[@devarni]

This means that there is no Absynth anymore... the problem is that for some plugins you can hardly find a newer/better version. Same goes for some ArtsAcoustic products (and why many people still use them). The best way is to limit the use of VST2 plugins as much as possible. If you still have maybe 1-2 plugins that you can't easily replace, you'll just have to bite the bullet. I also still use Absynth 5 under Apple Silicon with the help of Metasynth. It works without any problems, even if I would of course prefer a VST3 version... but the world isn't perfect.

[@kevinsturges6957]

The old NI Pro-53 and FM7 vsts are still some of my favorite software instruments. And they barely dent a modern cpu. I wish Native Instruments would sell them again with resizable interfaces.

[@christinaleanne5869]

Well said Dom. I have nothing against VST2 and used them happily for many years! But I had far more problems deciding whether, when, if, or how to switch from 32-bit to 64-bit plugins, careless of whether they were VST2 or VST3. There were so many factors and complications involved! Now i try to keep it simple by using Only 64-bit plugins and almost all of which are VST3 👌🏻

[@LodvarDude]

I use AU. Is that ok with everyone?

[@timhartnell2472]

The delay lama is my most useful plug-in

[@JestlMartin]

Thank you for the information about this. Now i know more 💥👍

[@DomSigalas]

@@JestlMartin glad it helped!

[@markdavenport2613]

I spent a LOT of money on BFD3 libraries over the years and refused to let it go to waste because they waited until 2024 to develop VST3 compatibility. I still have yet to upgrade to the latest version of Cubase, but I chose to wait after hearing reviews of version 13, so I didn't feel to rushed. Maybe by the time BFD3 beta is finished and ready for the public, I'll feel more confident about Cubase 13.

[@voilabolognessich423]

AKCHTUALLY you'll technically want to be using CLAP plugins if they are available. Disregarding the fact that it's a more open project, both in terms of code and license, it's more performant and more compatible than VST. Even VST3 still has a legacy implementation. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's doomed to go out of fashion sooner or later, as CLAP is better and easier for developers to adopt. For some years starting out now, you'll probably have to juggle VST3 and CLAP alongside one another if you still use Steinberg and legacy software. (In some cases you might even have to keep VST2, as it's the only type supported in, say, OBS.) Luckily though, there are wrappers you can use for these standards, and more are likely to come out. VST3 does the job for the time being. Well, VST2 also does the job, for that matter.

[@weltenraunen]

I would really like VST3 to finally be supported natively by OBS. Would be a dream come true.

[@clydesight]

I am new to all this, so thanks for explaining what VST is! I use Reaper 7 and found out that when it runs a VST2 plugin, the FX plug-in window can be scaled and scrolled if needed. The same plugin as a VST3 doesn't do this. So, part of the display is off screen! I need a big display size because of my poor eyesight. VST2 plugins have an advantage for me that I miss on VST3 versions. Thanks for your instructive and informative videos! I watch often!

[@exitthelemming145]

Like VST3 plugins don't crash?......

[@DomSigalas]

@@exitthelemming145 of course there are lousy VST3 plugins out there :) That’s not the point of the video :)

[@YashOnTheBeat]

Cubase needs more midi transform capabilities such as strum, legato with overlap etc. and they should be able to hide all the excess midi information outside the region boundaries. That really clutters up the screen when I'm trying to do multi part editing. They also need better stock macros along with the ability to share macros as a standalone file. That will enable users to share macros that they've made in a much more efficient way. It will also allow creators to sell their macros.

[@YashOnTheBeat]

All that is important for the slip function to work but it can be managed better. They also need to have a function for automating the last touched parameter.

[@fakshen1973]

Second comment: if including VST 2.4 compatibility is a small ask then the devs will support it. No one will stop using a DAW and switch to another because their old plug-ins still work. Backwards compatibility is a feature. Being able to load up old projects that are years and years old is a sales feature.

[@uncle-ed]

"I've explained it in this video..." 🤣

[@BryTunesMusic]

don't be a dork

[@fallenleaf24]

@@BryTunesMusic its true xD If I point into a field & say oh look a horse! & there is no horse then we can all have a laugh :D

[@DomSigalas]

@@uncle-ed scroll in the description. The video is there- it could be a KZbin bug if it doesn’t pop up :) ❤️

[@dhs1981]

Excellent points !!!

[@TheReal_E.IRIZARRY]

YOu're crazy af, Dom. I`m still using the defunct VST 2[.4] version of Iztope T-Pain Effect. LoLoL

[@MatthiasLindemann-hp2zr]

In my opinion, the best feature (besides sidechain) of VST3 is that when there is no signal, the plugin is suspended, meaning no CPU power is used. VST 2XX plugins use CPU performance, even when they are not being used. The Cubase "ASIO Guard" also runs better with VST3 plugins, which in turn means more and better optimized performance. The "ASIO Guard" is probably one of the best features implemented in Cubase and Nuendo.

[@blackstopmusic]

You are so right my friend! Cheers from Greece

[@DomSigalas]

@@blackstopmusic ❤️❤️❤️

[@Kaalamardo]

Interesting video...thanks Dom..

[@kean8908]

I sighed a genuinely sad sigh when I saw a brief clip of Xphrase at some point in the video. Man I miss that plugin!

[@DomSigalas]

It was an amazing plugin!

[@NikolajChristensen]

Ah yes Neon. It blew my mind to have a synth in my PC.

[@KevinSimpson031]

I reinstalled all my plugins with only VST3 & AU, saved me a lot of space. I will do the same when CLAP becomes universal.

[@eDrumsInANutshell]

@@KevinSimpson031 yap, that's what I do.

[@NickEnchev]

Never mind all that, where'd you get that hoodie?

[@tuneboxmusic]

Sidechain is the only reason why you should use it. Otherwise it works as great as v3.

[@fakshen1973]

VST was the first universal plug-in standard for DAWs. Beforehand plug-ins were around such as the TDM standard for DAWs like ProTools. 3rd parties like Waves made ProTools plug-ins the same way they make AAX plug-ins for ProTools now. But they had to run on propeietary DSP cards. CPUs weren't up to the task for any reasonable amount of plug-ins. Even with hardware DSP farms, the numbers of effects that could be run simultaneously were in the handfuls. The limit was 12 mono tracks (3 x 442 intetfaces) in 1994, running ProTools II on a NuBus expansion chassis, connected to a Mac Quadra 650.

[@chrisstaubyn]

Same here Dom, I started using VST3 exclusively for years too. Also one of the biggest improvements VST3 has over VST2 is that it auto suspends CPU processing. VST3 plugins don't consume CPU if they aren't receiving audio.

[@Jrel]

CPU suspended processing works if the silence flag is enabled by the VST3 developers (sometimes they forget, sometimes they blame the DAW). Also unfortunately, many VST3s I use still consume CPU when no audio is running (I'm looking at you AcusticaAudio, Izotope, PluginAlliance, UAD, ... there's more) so I have to do unnecessary workarounds like JBridge them and set them to performance mode so they behave properly (not consume CPU when there's no audio).

[@Roger-c1q6r]

It is/was also possible to integrate AutoSleep in VST 2.

[@DomSigalas]

@@chrisstaubyn ❤️ it’s the only sensible way. Otherwise at least ALWAYS bounce everything. Always 🤣

[@KUMStudio1]

I'm 100% agree with you Dom!

[@LeCVSUVL]

I honestly rather have a VST3 plugins. They run with more stability on my PC. I used to want to load some old VST2 plugins that i used to have back when i was using FL Studio(for music), but now that i am on Nuendo i simply do not want them and don't feel the need nor have the time to use some bridging software and hopefully get it to work, when as you said there are many plugins nowadays that can replicate the same thing and give even more options. Also lots of it come to(as you also said), nostalgia because those memories we have are pretty much, golden.

[@NicoSeven7]

It's an expensive hobby (obviously for those of us who don't work with this), and one thing I can tell you is that not all of us can pay several hundred dollars for plugins every time there is a big update, some of us have to think twice before invest in a good plugin, and if in the future we no longer have access to it, it's a problem. Thanks for the video anyway, I've learned a couple of things. 👍

[@vadimmartynyuk]

Man VST plug-ins looked so much better back then

[@thwelly]

I agree and support what you say to100% Dom. That because of Apples M1 and M+ strategie ... it make no sense longer to use VST2 and more worst ... 16BIT plugins in any case. However it is, in this case, absolut not acceptable that some plugin developers/seller still not move there plugins to VST3 and nativ Mx support. On Apple sometime you have to oportunity to use the "apple plugin standard" but if there also not native compiled to be used with Mx make it also no sense. I for myself stopped to buy plugins for the moment. And that also because a bit of your input (thank you) showing the included plugins from DAWs Steinberg Cubase ... I started to use them more and more and have to say most of the work can be done easy with them. And for the other stuff mostly there is anyway a VST3 Nativ version available.

[@gatosoul]

Thank you for Sharing! Please please 2024 GUI UPDATE to HALION, is almost impossible to use in an average 4k Modern Computer, No Scale option on HALION in 2024 almost 2025 :( Thank you ! great Channel.

[@VassiliosPallis]

Hello Dom! I can't live without Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist. But when Steinberg itself didn't upgrade it to VST3 16 years now, what should I do? Of course I use it.

[@ninjasharkstudiosandmerch]

Please suggest a replacement for Absynth. There was just something magical about it. I don't keep up on all of the new ones. Some but not all lol. Thank you.

[@XeNoS_Music]

I agree Absynth was really great. Well, now what i can suggest for You is to check synth called "Plasmonic" Its synth made by Brian Clevinger- creator of original Absynth ;) Its not the same but its very simillar

[@ninjasharkstudiosandmerch]

@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf I knew Izotope teamed up with NI but I didn’t know that. Damn. Thank you

[@ninjasharkstudiosandmerch]

@@XeNoS_Music Thank you!

[@SnowAngelfish]

Loved absynth!

[@muyeikasamurabi1602]

I still use Absynth. It still sounds like the future we were promised in films from the past.

[@evaldotiger4014]

Dom... There is no link where you point during this video

[@DomSigalas]

Hey my friend- scroll down in the description and you will find it if it doesn’t pop up for you :)

[@Somedei]

Pressed like as always but Camelphat 3 doesnt have a real alternative, does it ? its the king

[@DojoOfCool]

Great video and people have to realize time marches on and you have to change. Also so tried of them complaining about the DAW not being compatible with old plugins when it the plugin company's responsibility to update their plugin. My like has been music biz for about half and computers for the other half and at point both at same time. People don't have clue to the cost in time and money to create and especially maintain software. Worse they think all updates should be free. A company can't stay in business selling you a piece of software once and then giving away free updates for next ten, twenty years. So again great video.

[@SpikeColgate]

Still have a few projects where somehow VST2 got loaded instead of a VST3. And annoyingly I'm still having to note down the VST2 details and then manually replace it with the VST3 version. Why oh why can't this be done automatically as an option?!

[@fredmcveigh9877]

When I got Cubase 8 or 9 I think, there were some plugins from Cubase that it came with. I think one was called Mashup. These were made by Cubase. When Cubase 12 came along they discontinued the plugins that they had made for the reasons you are explaining now. Why couldn't they have updated these VST old plugins to VST 3? They had the code and the knowledge to do it but they just withdrew what was a decent plugin. They gave with one hand and took with the other.

[@snakenewton]

I was in that same boat with MD4 …. You might find a way round if you’re really stuck by using audio gridder - I think I’m right in saying you could run a ‘server shell’ in the same computer to house your older plugins. Bit clunky to keep servicing old junk. But at least you could move on

[@dmitrygreenberg3364]

Hey Dom, thanks for the great insight! Overall, it does make a lot of sense, but let me share with you my personal experience specifically with Steinberg. A long time ago, Steinberg released two incredible plugins: Virtual Guitarist 2 and Virtual Bassist. I've tried many "similar" VST instruments over the last couple decades, but nothing gets even close to these two. NI Complete libraries sound great, but programming custom riffs like you can do in VG is not an option. I had no choice but to move from Mac to Windows, where, thanks to jBridge, I still can use the Steinberg plugins in Cubase, but I would much rather have Steinberg adapt the amazing instruments to the new reality, so that I wouldn't have to use 3rd party "crotches". Instead, Steinberg simply took these amazing instruments out of circulation. Another example: four beautiful synths (Mystic, Prologue, Specter, LoopMash) simply vanished after upgrading from C11 to C12/13. Again, these are native stock Steinberg plugins. Was it really that difficult to adapt them to the new DAW? But here's the major issue: I own a phenomenal keyboard - Yamaha Motif XS8. One of the main reasons I bought it was that it was specifically designed to work as multichannel Firewire audio interface in conjunction with Cubase. The keyboard came with a whole bunch of dedicated software to support this integration: drivers, Cubase expansions, special templates, and a VST Editor for Motif, to name a few. An average virtual synth may cost a few hundred bucks. It's a lot of money, but if it is discontinued, you clench your teeth and move on. This beast, on the other hand, is a hardware synth that cost me a few thousand. It was a major investment on my part, and I was hoping that it would become the centerpiece of my studio for many ears to come. Indeed, it worked fabulously well until one day everything just ended. The only option, again, was to switch to Windows, which still supports Firewire and older plugins. By the way, a free DAW called Cakewalk has absolutely no problem opening even the most outdated plugins like Edirol Orchestral, side by side with the most current VST3 plugins. Why Steinberg couldn't do for a paying customer what Bandlab is doing for everyone out there is beyond me. Again, I think you're right in that life goes on, and nothing lasts forever, so at the end of the day, I guess, I'll have to make my peace with the harsh reality. Thank you for the great content!

[@CirTap]

Not everything new is also always better and servers everybody. I appreciate the benefits of VST3 but it also has its limitations. I hope somebody comes up with a VST2 -> VST3 Bridge or Shell plugin system/extension like there is a 32bit/64bit Bridge and a VST3->VST2 shell so we can at least load old projects using old plugins that CAN NOT BE REPLACED for a variety of reasons. If one doesn't give a shit about their own songs they composed 10 years ago or only does mastering for others and has never created music, then good for them: ditch the old ugly looking VST2 effect and get a newer one with a four square feet sized UI for three knobs. Be happy with it. I do care for my work, my creations, and don't want my originals be lost (again) just because a software company decides to "move on".

[@crefelder1]

I've used the first time VSTs in the year 2000 in Cubasis VST 2.0 & later Cubase VST 32. I loved the first NEON synth from Steinberg and the Universal Sound Module. In 2016 then started WinXP in Mac-VirtualBox together with this old Cubasis 2.0. And 😅 then started to sample the Sounds from this old VSTs threw a midi bridge on a Mac in Logic Pro. Also the response sound for the Ambience VST & the HallPlugin in Cubasis. Then reused them in the Logic Sampler (before EXS24) and the Space Designer. Also loved CamelSpace, Vanguance Synth, Crayon Filter and many more I forgot...

[@LabofmusicRecords]

remember the discussions about 16bit and 32bit years a go 😂

[@yeahthatkornel]

haha like 30 years ago

[@DomSigalas]

@@LabofmusicRecords yes and we all know how this all ended up. 🤣

[@IchsehmirFilmean]

Your thoughts sound like written by the marketing department of steinberg... I wonder why. Btw there were already plugin before vst. Does dx ring a bell?

[@sergioflores5565]

Dx was introduced primarily for game developers in 1995 and it took a few years for it to spread widely. Microsoft had to convince developers like iD to support it, in order to get the word out. VST and its SDK were introduced in 1996 aimed at the music industry and has been the most important standard for virtual instruments ever since. You don't need to be a Steinberg fanboy to recognize that. But it helps to have been a pro before its introduction. I remember the concept of virtual FX blowing all my colleagues mind at the time (they were using various other DAWs).

[@peterpeper4837]

@@sergioflores5565 I was using GRM tdm plugins on a protools rig before vst Vst is great for me but i also hear of developers preferring AU and AAX. Clap sounds promising

[@DomSigalas]

@@IchsehmirFilmean jeez… this is a question I get all the time and I just answered. Marketing for what? A plugin format that is dominating and has been around for 16 years? 😁 Steinberg has NO clue I am making this video. And they have never sponsored a video on my channel. Ever. This is what I would recommend to a friend. I am not selling anything here. 🤷‍♂️ I for one have been using DX plugins. I’m an old timer. I remember installing both the DX and VST versions and comparing stabilities :)

[@mikemccormick1624]

Agree 100%. If a company has not updated their plugins to VST3 after all these years, they probably never will. VST 2 is dead, as it should be. The VST3 protocol is more efficient and versatile. Time to ditch the horse and buggy and start driving a car! (or use public transportation, of course...😊)