Italy

[@willstephenson4102]

This is probably the most annoying and most brilliant tactic ever . This game was special

[@aughalough1]

The tactic, perfectly legal interpretation of the laws on rucking, What surprised so many, were not the tactic itself but the fact England players seemed entirely ignorant of the law in question. Italy’s players executed their plan brilliantly! Best Quote goes to Romain Poite “I am a referee, not a rugby coach,”

[@gopr3117]

The laws were changed after this game because the loop hole was stupid and England still easily won the game

[@TheSideburno]

I agree, our players should have adapted quicker than they did.

[@offal]

well they wern`t rucking that was the problem? they didn`t really execute anything cept turned a game of union into league and it wasn`t brilliant it was just retarded and embarrising on italys part as it showed how weak thay were,it was ungraceful, and bought them nothing but time till the enevitable. i like union not league, and the ref isn`t the coach but he is the authority on the pitch who oversees the laws so he was wrong, he was asked to explain. not find a solution, the england team asked for clarity on the laws which they were entitled too. any team could have did this to any other team, hindsight is a funny thing isn`t it.,,

[@sakr-el-bahr272]

@@offal Explain to me how this is rugby league???? Rugby league sends the opposing team back 10 metres during the play the ball, in line with the ref who is the authority. Infringements mean an offside penalty is awarded.

[@offal]

@@sakr-el-bahr272 because i guess if you don`t contest and form a ruck there is no offside line, i think it`s more similar to league it certainly isn`t union lol, this option has now been removed as it was an exploit. it was shit anyway like league is, a desperate solution that didn`t work, italy still got thumped. Everyone was making out the italians were hero`s because it was put against England, but England are the only team in the 6 nations never to have been beat by italy, any other team that has this exploit against them wooda bin kicking up fuck, we just adapted and fucked them up.

[@georgemurden4226]

imagine this being the first game of rugby you ever watch

[@scarletturk3892]

As a 'one off'....Brilliant tactic. England had no idea what to do. The confusion was spreading to newbie style handling errors. Most entertaining to watch. :-D

[@ketshup1563]

Scarlet Turk srsly? This was maybe the most awful game i saw in my life, and I'm not speaking as a supporter of one of the two nations, but as a person who enjoys watching good rugby on saturdays...

[@Huwbacca]

it's the responsibility of the team to win first. Play beautiful rugby second. They must try what they think will work.

[@ketshup1563]

Huwbacca I totally agree with that, I was just reacting to him saying it was "entertaining" to watch :)

[@Huwbacca]

fair one!

[@name8731]

Huwbacca Did you not find this interesting at least, it's the first and the last time we ever saw this

[@charlesdick1133]

Every now and then I come back to this video. The audacity. It's beautiful.

[@andystrachan598]

A tactic so well thought out they had to change the rules of the game to stop everyone from doing it! 😁

[@offal]

yeah it would have ruined the game ..

[@Snookbone]

It's worth noting that the RFU voted against the law change

[@andrexadoh]

@@Snookbone so whats the status of the law? I checked the rule book and it says that the ball becomes the offside line in the tackle? Confused

[@calex7763]

@@Snookbone they did change the law....

[@PeacockRhino]

And rightly so. This was anti rugby at its worst but fair play for Italy spotting that the rules allowed it at the time.

[@danielcejones]

England.exe has stopped working

[@devanman7920]

It great when you see a smaller side use tactics and intelligence to find a loop hole and really put the bigger side under pressure! Well done Italy!!

[@offal]

no pressure just a bit of confusion..

[@damianozappi9394]

@@offal a bit ? lol, England won because they played way better,no doubt , but your "a bit" was a "a bit" bigger for your team, they did not have a clue what was going on and then they reacted.

[@colmivers]

What's really shocking here was Englands inability to react quickly to an obvious tactic and simply pick and run as Italy weren't committing to the ruck. I'm fairly certain this was the cause of Jones's ire, no doubt he felt it was an attack against him as a tactician personally

[@99morgster]

icandodgebullets86 Are you 5?

[@icandodgebullets86]

@@99morgster No, I'm ashamed to say I'm actually 32.

[@gopr3117]

England adapted and won the game. You think Ireland would have reacted differently? Grow up lol

[@vibraniumghost7822]

@@gopr3117 what the fuck has Ireland got to do with this

[@damianozappi9394]

@@vibraniumghost7822 who knows what he was thinking about when he said that.....

[@gregorykillen4564]

Hilarious!!!!! No wonder Eddie Jones was so pissed off!!!!! Seeing Englishman at 6s and 7s when Italy was not committing was beautiful to watch!!! I believe a canny Irishman came up with this pearler??????

[@cecerchio]

A South African apparently, Brendan Venter defence coach for Italy back then.

[@benedictcumberbatchfacts5571]

Genius tactics tbf. Everyone complains that Italy aren’t competitive, but when they develop an excellent strategy to be competitive people want to take it away from them? 🤷‍♂️

[@professionalprocrastinator8103]

I was rooting for the italians during that game but let's be honest, this was a one-off tactic that would have not paid off in any subsequent match. Teams would've adapted to it and made it a weakness. Plus this was a grey area that went against the "spirit of the game" in that it made rugby slow and sluggish. I'm all for tactics that exploit grey areas and demonstrate playmanship and a superior knowledge of the game, but I won't miss this one. It was a great tactic and I'm glad they pulled it off against the english during that encounter. Heck, it would've been absolutely brilliant had they won, but I don't think it would have worked in the long run.

[@petetownshend781]

Eddie "that's not rugby" jones

[@shazmeister2005]

I remember pissing myself laughing at this. Cheeky of Italy but it was England’s complete failure to realise what was happening and react that made it so good. Best bit was that nothing changed after half time, Eddie Jones clearly didn’t understand either, probably why he was so pissy about it afterwards!

[@arandombard1197]

Complete failure? You do realise they still won with 4 tries right?

[@vdd]

Great tactic that was within the rules of the time No issue with it Italy has lesser players so used the rules of the time to concoct a game plan that would give them a chance Fair play

[@-pprct-]

Really great to see this ! Definitely enjoyed the match , brava Italia

[@airspacesilence8610]

Someone’s happy Italy lost, again

[@arandombard1197]

@@airspacesilence8610 Yeah, you'd think the way people react to this that Italy won the game. What would have been really impressive would be if Italy had just beaten them instead.

[@mmbyrner]

I remember dylan hartley asking the ref the rules 😂

[@anubisu1024]

Now it's illegalized, probably for this. It was a loophole of the laws, what a brilliant and creative tactic.

[@Smudgar]

The tactics were so perfect they went on to lose! Bravissimo!!!

[@clingfilmlover]

I'd never heard about that loophole in the rules until I'd read about the match afterwards. I'd probably have been confused about what was going on had I watched it live. But credit to Italy, they didn't cheat they just found a loophole in the rules, exploited it and used it to their advantage and it certainly looks like it worked even until quite a way into the 2nd half

[@DublinDapper]

Beautiful to watch

[@williamdmason9375]

Perfectly lawful

[@pdavies2304]

DIESEL LONGJOHN not anymore though

[@cjgreenwood]

Perfectly awful, and no longer lawful

[@adamdickinson2894]

Tbf it was ingenious from O'Shea and fair play... But if it was allowed to continue rugby would be so shit

[@davidbryant6149]

it is allowed to continue...it's just only effective to fluster, it's not actually a great tactic

[@catherinekeogh4988]

True

[@Freedoyler]

Rugby is still shite🤣

[@eamonlyons8318]

U might call bs but Connor o shea has a brother called donal o shea and he's my uncle

[@jeffreychongsathien]

I'm so annoyed they changed the rules to prevent this happening again. They shouldn't prevent smarter being a tactical advantage, it gives the game an added dimension and I think it actually forced the referee to ref the breakdown properly (instead of what they usually do, which is turn their brain off and just say everything is a ruck even when it clearly wasn't contested "No! Don't go over the ruck!" "There wasn't one formed!").

[@jeffreychongsathien]

I just thought "What a brilliant comment" and 'liked' it, only then to realise it was my own from 2 years ago 🤦

[@matteolatorre5187]

😂😂😂

[@flumexxkaixx5734]

id be annoyed if it was done against my team but in this case this is bloody brilliant haha

[@BigBlack81]

So when teams in the southern hemisphere don't commit at the breakdown and form rucks, it's clever. But a team like Italy does it to the extent they TRIED, it's exploitative? Bit of a double standard there. And remember, they STILL got smashed by a TON. I like the fact that they changed the rules, but teams know now. They have to commit. Period. ALL TEAMS. There's gonna be a day when England will over commit and be exploited the other way for it. And I wait for that day now.

[@LiukMarco]

What still surprise me is that professional players did not know what to do, and what the law said. If Italy had been a better team, they probably would have won (but probably would have no need of that tactic). Quite awful how Jones reacted and complained, and how World Rugby decided to change a perfectly normal rule. For me, the tactic was not really against "rugby values", at least not as much as neck rolls, or shoulder charges we see too often (and Jones does not really complain about)

[@marcobenzoni762]

In 20 years of following Italrugby I have seen many errors by the referees against Italy. Smart and repeated fouls of the other teams never sanctioned in a sport that is the example of honesty. We could have won a few more matches

[@ewanw5481]

i was so confused why everyone was so angry about the tactics at the time cos I was so new to rugby. finally managed to understand the rules and thought this was pure genius of them😂

[@kcobley]

The Italians have turned Rugby into Rugby league.

[@MostardAlex]

Sono un italiano semplice: vado a Londra ed insegno agli inglesi le regole dello sport che hanno inventato loro

[@johnjohnny6148]

3 or 4 wins in the last 10 years . You don't have much to teach lol

[@MostardAlex]

@@johnjohnny6148 Don't worry and have faith. Rome wasn't built in a day... 😉

[@damianozappi9394]

@@MostardAlex they are supposed also to be the ones that invented football..... lol..... they only won 1 world cup, back in...... last millenium.....

[@damianozappi9394]

@@johnjohnny6148 you guys also invented football.... so what ? you are still WAY BEHIND...... students now are better than teachers

[@ryanlukejoyce5024]

such a clever move

[@thomasbisset1136]

Honestly, just protect the ball at the non ruck and then smash straight up the middle. The Italians would've have stopped pretty quickly.

[@runtimus5743]

This was so painful to watch as an English fan, this is just basics but at the same time on so many occasions Italy had committed to the ruck and he called tackle only.

[@baudoinpages6616]

Excellent

[@headintheclouds6935]

Perfectly fine chiefs have done it for ages and im english. Only thing is as jaco would say. You need to avoid the tackle area or you could be deemed in at the side. Happened when our school did it

[@nathancohen430]

Lol ruckgate 😂

[@Provenom100]

Tbh England were pretty stupid, like if they don’t commit to a ruck then all you do is keep picking and going rather than risking passing. ( this is coming from an England fan)

[@j.miguel6193]

yeah just keep kicking the ball in the ruck and walking johny walker :)

[@gopr3117]

Easy for you say with the benefits of hindsight. No one in the crowd or at home had a clue what was going on

[@offal]

yeah amazing in hindsight innit, cuz wales , ireland, scotland, france would have totally seen this coming and reacted to it automatically lol, fucking dreamers..

[@Thelatenightchipshopexperience]

@@gopr3117 i called it after the firdt couple of times watching on tele. Pick and go.

[@user-Arsenallove]

これは本当に驚き

[@spc632]

My under 16s and 18s have been doing this for years it's playing the rules... If your team can not compleat with the ops game play you have to work some thing out to stop them.. That's the game... And yes I am English but loved the way the Italians did this... The week point is right in front as the Italians never but a post puller or guard in front of the tackle so englandvafterva while worked it out... But still great to see teams and peaple understanding the laws of the game and working it to an advantsge

[@anthonybracuti6898]

Just because it's within the rules doesn't mean it should be played. Rugby is all about the spirit of the game, respect for the rules (the word of law, not the words of law) and respect for the opposition; none of that was true here. If you've been teaching your children players this type of mockery of rugby you should be ashamed of yourself, and rugby as a sport is worse off for it.

[@oranha]

This really put England back in their place. Even though they won they still got embarrassed by the Italian team of all teams

[@muxband4621]

It was so embarrassing for England!

[@oranha]

max1072 I think it’s pretty embarrassing to see that the country that invented the sport doesn’t know its own rules

[@muxband4621]

@@HerewardWake whether Italy got destroyed or not that's not the point, as Italy's rugby history is so so young compared to England, of course you expect England to thrash Italy. BUT for England to not know the rules...so embarrassing! FFS they invented the sport!

[@oranha]

MUX Band don’t think I need to anything else. That’s exactly what I was trying to say

[@TheItalianAtheist]

@@HerewardWake sure, and the remaining teams would be struggling with 5 cashes less in a 2 season period, not to mention reduced TV income, and so on.

[@joshengelbrecht-w3g]

The best strategy was Italy vs England 2017, undoubtedly

[@goatsun1300]

LA GRANDE BELLEZZA

[@Peter-wf1vy]

Para firm clips

[@marcteenhc9793]

1:36 the ruck is formed, why is the Italian player not considered offside then? what am I missing here?

[@philsswweightlossdiary2944]

You aren’t missing anything. There are a number of examples of rucks being formed and the ref letting Italy swarm the England side anyway. Great tactic, inconsistently refereed which only added to the confusion. When Haskell for clarification the ref chose to be snarky instead.

[@ollie-kc6nj]

@@philsswweightlossdiary2944 no men were committed to the ruck though the tackler is not in jt

[@garethlloyd4716]

Because it’s not a ruck 🙄

[@garethlloyd4716]

he’s clearly a tackler as he’s got contact with the ball carrier till they hit the ground

[@carldanelaubscher1489]

what was the final score

[@jessran70]

Eddie Jones moaned so much two laws changes came about as a result. One of them: offside line reference rucks cost England that try that got ruled out v the All Blacks. The other? Tackler must have clear release and re-enter the ruck has caused England untold problems at the break down. Comical.

[@strawberrykicker2]

I know it's a bit childish to complain as much as Jones did,but they had to change, the game would go to shit if this became a regular thing, great once off use of the rules though

[@isaac7472]

The clear release has always been in the law, but what was changed is that a tackler had to go round and come through the gate

[@jamesdavison7847]

If your so used to playing rugby one way. And your brought up playing that way. If something that’s never happened before happens. It’s going to completely startle any team. England are able to beat Ireland by 12 POINTS and lose to the best team in the world by 1 point due to an unlucky decision. Most teams would have lost that game. But Italy didn’t play that TACTIC to any other teams because it was a ONE TRICK PONY

[@DJ-ce3hq]

Alejandro García Jiménez no, Eddie Jones went to World Rugby and got a law change

[@AdhocHoopla]

If Italy didn't want to Ruck then why didn't England just pick up the ball and run? It's not like anybody was close enough to stop them.

[@tommhowcroft8291]

Can Somone explain what was going on

[@tomasalves3462]

What is the rulle now boys?

[@MrOlympuse410]

the funniest part of this was the brigade of anti-england people who are adamant this shows how thick the England team are. Italy found this flaw in the rules, any team would have taken time to adapt to something they've never seen before. You'll notice England won this game anyway

[@ed1726]

I'm not a genius but why not pick the ball up and run forward?

[@6jackace]

You're not a genius but the England team this day had 14iq between them. And I do know 15 people are in a team.

[@pumpkingreg6673]

I don't understand Rugby. Can someone explain?

[@russoswerve7856]

Eddie Jones is a good coach but I lost some respect for him after the way he acted about Italy’s smart manipulation of the rules. And his sulking after Italy’s try where the ball ricocheted off the posts from a penalty kick was immature and reeked of ‘they outsmarted us’ and he was upset that a borderline minnow like Italy did it

[@robjones9882]

And that’s why the fucking ruck laws were changed

[@wilsonrfernandes]

Outra possibilidade de resposta por parte da Inglaterra seria simplesmente jogar a bola na cara dos jogadores da Itália que se atrevessem a passar da linha da bola para "jogar basquete"😂

[@Superfantastictop10]

Jones said that it wasn't in the spirit of the game...why?

[@danielcejones]

England fans seem to think that it's Italy's duty to sit down and get beaten like always.

[@TheItalianAtheist]

yes. They were ridiculed at home and demanded for the rule to be changed. Arrogants as usual.

[@offal]

your right it is, clearly thats why they used this bullshit,

[@TheItalianAtheist]

@@offal The problem, basically, is that World Rugby is killing the tactics. That doesn't help the emerging countries (at men's level: at women's there are not privileges of position, see the latest Six Nations where the Italian girls were runners up behind England), because it simply freezes the current situation. The lower teams need to improve via the tactics where they still can't with the technical skills but basically every change of rules seems to say that countries like Italy must sit and get beaten without chance of defending themselves using the brain.

[@offal]

@@TheItalianAtheist i think the 6th place in the 6 nations should be open to the european team who is ranked highest, georgia sits at 12 at the moment and italy 14, romania 18th, it might give 2nd tier teams an incentive as italy and the top 10 have a better chance to climb or remain in the top 10, and it would give these teams a better advantage, they would learn more and their game would improve, we rarely see the top tier playing 2nd and third tier in europe, these are games i`d like to see, romania poland hungary, germany etc. or have a proper european championship 2 years between world cups whrere these teams can have a go, i don`t find it a fair system.

[@TheItalianAtheist]

@@offal And why should be open, if Six Nations Rugby Ltd is a private company owned by the 6 unions that play it? (There's also an U-20 and a Women's tournament, too, in which Italy has been runner-up this year)? Even Italy is too strong for the European Championship, and when Georgia knocked at our door they were sent back with 4 undisputed tries (the only one they scored in Florence last november was a penalty try). When Italy was admitted to the 6N they had beaten France, Ireland, Scotland and lost narrowly with Wales and England (against which Alessandro Troncon scored a valid try at Huddersfield cancelled by the French referee Mené). Second, Georgia or Romania have not the financial resources to play in the 6N. The IRB wanted the professionalism, I didn't like it. It created a two-speed rugby, with the likes of Italy being too slow for the fastest and too fast for the slowest; but Italy can assure money to the 6 Nations committee, Georgia and Romania cannot, unless they charge unsustainable prices for the tickets at their home grounds.

[@arandombard1197]

If it was a 'perfect' tactic, why did they still get destroyed in this game? England got the bonus point try, meaning it was a moderately okay tactic that at most let them steal the ball once or twice. Beyond that, there were many times that Italy did commit but the bad referee still called "tackle only". The referee didn't know what he was doing and was just refusing to call rucks because the Italians had explained their intended tactic before. Then when the England team ask for some clarification because he is incorrectly calling rucks as 'tackles only' he just gives a sarcastic "i'm not your coach" to cover up the fact that he was doing such a shit job.

[@princehassaniii530]

I’m confused 🤷‍♂️ why Don’t England do the same to Italy?

[@karlosdeevs]

It wasn’t in their game plan unlike Italy

[@SimonGhostRileyTF141]

1st & 2nd person to the tackle just pick and go. Easy

[@Rimpianto]

As for countless matches, our lack of enough players to make a good bench made us lose in the final 15 minutes.

[@satiriconexpulsado6538]

hahahha quick learning! jajajaj

[@jamiepetford7289]

I don't understand how they can do that, could someone enlighten me?

[@Michael-vi7pz]

jamie petford In not committing any men to the breakdown, no ruck is formed and thus there is no offside line created. (Usually there is one at the back of a ruck). Italy therefore could put men in the English line (technically) and block the passes as it was deemed to be open play. A smart exploit yes but imo it was poor sportsmanship even if as a Scot I always like seeing England struggling at rugby.

[@jamiepetford7289]

+Michael Elliot ohhhh okay I see, thanks for that.

[@苛蒲郡-g1s]

What did Italy do? I don’ｔunderstand.

[@gamberouno]

mi piace molto il rugby ma non ho capito questa regola .in cosa consiste l'atteggiamento della formazione italiana che ha messo a soqquadro la squadra inglese?qualcuno me la può spiegare?grazie

[@bimbogiallo]

Nel rugby esiste il fuorigioco. Quando un giocatore viene placcato la palla e' in teoria in zona "neutra". Se la squadra che difende decide di cercare di combattere per il possesso del pallone, allora si forma una linea immaginaria lungo la posizione della palla che divide il campo in attacco/difesa. Questa e' la linea del fuorigioco. Difesa e attacco (dipende da chi vincera' la palla) a quel punto possono giocare la palla solo nel proprio campo; solo il giocatore col possesso del pallone puo' superare la linea, mentre tutti gli altri devono restare dietro quella linea fino al placcaggio successivo (si ripete la situazione). La difesa, a sua volta, dovra' stare dietro la linea del pallone e quindi cercare di fermare l'avversario soltanto "frontalmente". Nel caso la squadra che difende non contesti il pallone, allora non scatta questo meccanismo e quindi possono avanzare oltre la linea del pallone e "intrufolarsi" nelle retrovie avversarie. Questo non succede praticamente mai a quei livelli e gli Inglesi sono rimasti sorpresi. Sarebbe bastato (cosa che poi hanno fatto nel secondo tempo) raccogliere la palla subito dopo il placcaggio e avanzare dritto per dritto, dato che gli Italiani stavano andando da tutte le parti invece di formare una linea difensiva "fitta". Ma l'abitudine di 10+ anni di esperienza ha portato gli Inglesi a seguire una strategia tradizionale, cadendo nel tranello.

[@gamberouno]

@@bimbogiallo ti ringrazio di cuore per la tua disponibilità a colmare una mia lacuna.quindi è stato un atteggiamento mai visto in campo che ha sorpreso gli inglesi rendendoli inermi davanti allo atteggiamento della difesa italiana?

[@bimbogiallo]

@@gamberouno Figurati. Inermi forse e' un'esagerazione, ma quasi. A quei livelli la strategia era stata usata solo in casi straordinari per brevi momenti, mai come strategia "di base". Nel rugby poi l'allenatore non e' a bordo campo ma sugli spalti, quindi stava ai giocatori Inglesi, senza direzioni tattica, capire come reagire. Nel primo tempo non ce l'hanno fatta, ma dopo l'intervallo e le discussioni con lo staff, hanno capito cosa fare.

[@gamberouno]

@@bimbogiallo ragionando sulla regola e spostandolo nel campo della guerra ( gli sport di squadra ne sono una riproduzione) è come se il difendente attuasse la tattica della battaglia non a viso aperto(non si oppone frontalmente all'attacco) ma della infiltrazione tra le linee ( e infatti si vedono 2-3 azzurri che attendono il passaggio laterale per attaccare l'eventuale ricevitore) quindi come se facessero della guerriglia e non guerra.che ne pensi?

[@andy602]

I'm a League fan i don't watch much Union. Can someone explain how they're onside, please?

[@collinslfc]

Apparently if nobody commits to the ruck from the Italians, there is no offside line as the ball is deemed to still be in open play. Or so I've been told, it was news to me too.

[@sarenace]

The offside line is at the hindmost foot of ruck and maul. So, when two teams are rucking to win possession, the offside line is drawn through the foot furthest back toward the attacking teams tryline. A ruck is formed when two opposing players bind to each other and grapple to contest possession of the ball. In the event that two players dont bind, therefore, no ruck is formed. No ruck, there is no hindmost foot at ruck, without a hindmost foot at ruck, no offside line can be drawn. Without an offside line, there can be no offside. By not binding to the ruck the italians couldnt contest possession but they ensured that they could play offside.

[@barbara1904]

Brilliant. Good to see the cockey English totally bamboozled. Pity the Italians did not win, that would have been the cherry.

[@TheItalianAtheist]

Yes, pity. though I knew that after that humiliation RFU would have pushed World Rugby to change the rule.

[@offal]

but it wasn`t was it, tuff shite hater :)

[@fraser281]

Lets go Riverlake!

[@PerthLuxury]

This is the most Bill Belichick thing to ever do and the IRB banned it straight away.... spoilt sports....

[@Sanduriah]

When a team breaks the game lol 😆

[@nathansega]

Wait...wtf why are they on that side...isnt that odfside?

[@nathansega]

Alfa&Omega 00000 at 1.11 ref says ruck and they are still doing it

[@bremCZ]

MrZega at 1:05 he says "ruck" then a player runs the ball into a new tackle and at 1:09 the ref says "tackle only" which allows people to mix in the English line.

[@martynLroberts]

If they had competed properly in the first half and done these tactics in the second half i think they could have beaten them.

[@offal]

hahahahahahaha, england have never lost to itally unlike the other 4 and i cant see them losing to them in my lifetime. no matter what desperate bullshit they come up wiv.

[@martynLroberts]

@@offal the English players didn't know what to do, the captain even asked the referee what they needed to do to make it a ruck. Coach obviously told them what to do at half time. The interesting thing is though. If Eddie Jones hadn't cried and complained to world rugby after that match you would have beaten the All Blacks last autumn

[@offal]

@@martynLroberts cmon i`m no expert but i know if a ruck isn`t formed or contested there is no offside line, just a tackle..i don`t know how england didn`t know this or figure it out, it`s probably the inconsistency with refs in general we know how they get anal about certain things like scrumming and such like,probably didnt wanna upset him and start giving penalties away so thats why they were asking for clarification, and the coach of italy prolly told the ref of his teams intention before at the meeting.i`ve seen this before cant remember where, like the england team wouldn`t have expected it in the top flight, yeah it confused the shit outa them and they prolly should have had it sooner lol but a ref should clarify on the laws if asked. it`s part of his job.

[@mastersta5267]

someone explaine

[@YASHALSIVAM]

And now they've changed the law. I don't think you can do this anymore.

[@subierumble5429]

someone explain why they cna do this with evidence

[@jacobb978]

If theres no ruck then there's no offside line, its just open play therefore the players can stand wherever they choose.

[@bremCZ]

Jacob B Exactly. If the defensive team don't form a ruck or maul then there can be no offside and the ball is considered in open play.

[@jamesprimavesi2392]

The problem I have with this is that the referee was in on it. When have you ever heard a referee should “tackle only”. I have no problem with Italy trying the tactic and exploiting a loophole in the then rules but the fact it was discussed with the referee in advance and the referee then helped them implement it can’t be right.

[@bimbogiallo]

The referee did *not* help Italy implement the strategy. All that happened was that during the standard coaches-referee pre-match meeting, the Italian staff asked the referee to make sure the strategy was indeed legal. The referee did not provide tips or made any suggestion, he just confirmed that it was indeed doable. COS: " hey ref, if we don't contest the ruck, we can jump around all over the field as much as we want, right?" Poite: "Oui." COS: "Grazie."

[@horiessence]

kabaddi

[@MiniMatthew]

What I loved about this as an England fan is the fact Italy NEEDED to do something like this only against England... Says a lot on which team they most wanted to beat? Hats off to them but this could have been infectious had the rules not been changed. England still won easily. And this would have caught any team off guard, I only wish they had done it to Scotland or something where Italy would have actually won lol.

[@TheItalianAtheist]

The issue is not that. Is that the oldest IRB unions always demand for rules' change when someone read them better than them.

[@Stu-Vino]

"Perfect tactics" - Italy lost by 21 points! :-D

[@benlong4277]

Yes because ultimately England had the better players. Had they not executed the tactic they would have been beaten by more.

[@jacobhallett1309]

I don’t understand this rule

[@luckysharma5319]

Well at this time the rule was when a Ruck was formed you weren't allowed to go past the ruck as you would be offside, in open play there is no offside so what the italiens did was not commit anyone to the Ruck so I wasn't a ruck and just a tackle so therefore there was no offside so italy was allowed to cross the line

[@PB22559]

@@luckysharma5319 If there was no ruck and no offside, why didn't the Italians just grab the ball, instead of trying to intercept it? Poite made a lot of dodgy calls that day. Some of those 'tackle only' calls were clearly rucks.

[@swaggyjones9875]

England 36 Italy 15 perhaps they should have saved that strategy and used it for a game they could actually win lmao

[@offal]

yeah lol.

so you have no ass now?

[@TheKoodus]

@ He'll be alright. It's only bad when I'm LMFAO cos you know, some things are just embarrassing during sex.

[@johnnythreebollocks3496]

Embarrassing that they are so poor Head 2 Head, they had to resort to making a mockery of the sport. No wonder Italian rugby is in a crisis.

[@TheItalianAtheist]

Let's introduce serious antidoping tests into rugby union too, so we'll find out how is possibile that players not still 30 old have to leave the game.

[@johnnythreebollocks3496]

@@TheItalianAtheist What you just said makes absolutely no sense both grammatically and the content. Take your head for a dump Joe.

[@TheItalianAtheist]

@@johnnythreebollocks3496 grammatically maybe, I'm not a native speaker of English. For the content, you'll never convince me that in the UK players last 80 mins only because of their training. If you watch the women's game the gas runs out for everyone. In the men's game the gas seems to run out only for the continental teams like France and Italy...

[@johnnythreebollocks3496]

@@TheItalianAtheist So you believe there is a conspiracy that British rugby players must be on steroids because they fitter than the continental teams? Congratulations, you've made yourself look like a fucking prat in a foreign language. Gold sticker for you.

[@Joe_the_animal_oliver]

It was very smart and fair play to Italy for taking advantage of the loophole however I would say it isn't in the spirit of the game, if you can't win by play proper rugby then don't play it.

[@charlesday3663]

The fact italy lost still makes me laugh to this day

[@henrybullock4514]

Everyone’s saying England reacted like shit but I’d like to see how other nations would cope for it. And don’t act like you wouldn’t all be winging as well. But let’s be honest the only reason they did it is because we are England at the end of the day and everyone’s hates us cause we are the best.

[@aidankeane8971]

Nah arrogance combined with a colonial past is the main reason. You are not the best, getting better recently though I reckon the grand slam be yours this year

[@dustinfleetwood7167]

nah you shit bra. check world rankings. not sure if or when you were ever the best

[@karlosdeevs]

@@aidankeane8971 nope, and they haven’t even come close to winning one since..

[@aughalough1]

Is maith go bhfaca na hIodálach ag imirt mar seo!!!

[@jollysheldone425]

Seriously? the Italys?

[@aughalough1]

Typo Seriously?

[@aughalough1]

Crimson Hunter, it's a fucking typo, get over it!

[@aughalough1]

Crimson Hunter, are you dumb this is the "Rugby Union" section.

[@jacobb978]

Perfectly lawful (now rectified), but poor sportsmanship.

[@tank9432]

Half of these were fucking rucks. If any defender except the tackler even TOUCHES the ruck then the rest of the side have to be on side. Few occasions of which some were not shown here italy were rucking and offside at the same time.

[@SaidABayan]

No

[@TheItalianAtheist]

you must have a good sight to see offsides where thery aren't . you might have refereed Italy's game v Ireland last Sunday, where the Irishmen used continuous offside to prevent us from scoring.

[@tank9432]

@@TheItalianAtheist i can see offsides if they are 5m offside

[@jameshackney7314]

Hardly Perfect, they lost the game. It was clever but far from perfect

[@karlclifford1176]

It really frustrated me no Italy player went round and picked the ball.

[@brandon.w9346]

You need to learn how to play rugby then

[@karlclifford1176]

RUGBY HYPE If it’s not a ruck why can’t they come around and pick the ball?

[@brandon.w9346]

Karl Clifford just because it’s not a ruck doesn’t mean it’s not a tackle, if it’s a tackle they can’t go within 1m or a player within 1m of the ruck. Don’t comment on things when you have no idea about it. Probably play poor club rugby at best

[@chrisclarkson7469]

They still lost the game even with the cheese. #awks

[@mrman8541]

And they didn't even execute it properly. Look at the first few, they could easily have just gone round and taken the ball.

[@simonphilipp3233]

What the fuck that's offside

[@tommyh500]

Well done Italy you ruined the game for the fans and still lost

[@josephclarke9279]

I’m sorry a brilliant tactic normally doesn’t mean you loss by over 20 points

[@hammerhiem75]

the clip at 2:00 shows how badly Poite understood what was happening, Parisse tried to jackle 3 times, was in contact over the ball twice and he still called tackle only. 2:37 is another example. Italy 18 was competing for the ball, so ruck formed, he then steps back as he wasn't able to win teh collision and the italy 21 moves into an offside position (rucks was formed it doesn't stop being a ruck because you lose the contact) and Poite just waves his hands in the air like the clueless twat he is.

[@hammerhiem75]

A ruck is formed both times, it doesn't matter if they walk away the offside line is already established. learn the Laws.

[@hammerhiem75]

Are you blind? Parisse Competed over the ball three times, he even pulled Itoje and Launchbury into the ruck.

[@bremCZ]

hammerhiem75 At 2:37 he was holding his hands out to show that Italy had to stay back. When the Italian players got up from the ground there was no ruck and thats when you see the Italian player move through.

[@hammerhiem75]

Rucks don't stop being rucks because you leave them learn the damn Law. Once a ruck is formed, it stays formed until : When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds. Sanction: Scrum. The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the goal line. The ruck ends when the ball becomes unplayable. If the referee decides that the ball will probably not emerge within a reasonable time, a scrum is awarded.

[@bremCZ]

hammerhiem75 There was no ruck at 2:37

[@thewizardssleeve119]

The ref had clearly been primed by Italy's coaching staff, it was like a joke Italy and the ref were playing on England. The subsequent chaos went totally Italy's way, with the ref miss-calling rucks tackles only, and never being in control of the situation. Italy weren't pinged for any offences on the ground, no clear signals to latch onto from officials, no wonder England looked confused!

[@dunclesmcmotherfuckingdidd6018]

Jonny Chinchen they told the ref before hand so they would understand. it’s just being smart

[@jonnybaynham1689]

Maybe it helped delay the eventual high score they conceded for a bit longer, but the obvious willingness to exploit a hole in the rulebook in such an extreme way means it wasn't difficult for world rugby to amend this law very quickly. What it's done, therefore, is cheapen Italian rugby for resorting to exaggerated rulebook exploitation rather than playing competitively. I really like Conor O Shea and this years game vs England was a much better, more competitive game than this crap. I hope he keeps moving the Italian team in the style of play they brought England as that will be a much better culture than finding any cheap way to delay getting trounced.

[@scottvanravesteijn8416]

Stop being salty that Italy found a viable way to have a chance against a bigger team

[@riccardodepieri4582]

Jonny Baynham They could have been 17 tied if they made the conversion at the 65' minute so it's safe to say that this tactic ultimately resulted in a delay of the blowout but O'Shea couldn't have known that before the game so actually this gave Italy a pretty decent chance to get an historical win. I don't see why this should be cheaper than taking a quick penalty and getting a try while the opposite team is not ready to play. In my opinion any team has the right to adopt any strategy they want provided they play within the rulebook, and it's up to the opponents to figure it out. Then, if it's clear that playing in a certain way is going to diminish the entertainment and the competition value, I'm absolutely fine with changing or specifying the rules, but for this one time I feel that we (I'm Italian) just tried to do anything we could to steal a win from a much better opponent.

[@bremCZ]

Jonny Baynham I think it was great work by Italy. When race teams do it it's ingenuity but when ball teams do it it's lowering themselves.

[@jonnybaynham1689]

simply superman69 read my comment properly before you get triggered and throw childish stereotyping around. Or waste more of your time on FIFA glitches and the Illuminati, whatever makes you feel better.

[@aarongray8753]

simply superman69 he wasn't calling for the rules to be changed, the rules were changed literally straight after Italy put in this performance, unsportsmanlike in my opinion

[@Stu-Vino]

PERFECT tactics by Italy…who lost by 21 points.

[@GOLDSMITHEXILE]

twas like the poll tax riots, cant play wont play.

[@Hamish1664]

I guarantee, and the bitter comments below back this up, if this was done to any other nation there would be exactly the same objections. However, because it’s against us and celts can’t let go of the past, it’s “genius” and “brilliant” despite being completely against the spirit of the game.

[@lmaximus5653]

Get over yourself, it was brilliant ingenuity thats all, really stifled you as well seeing as your making it about celts not over the past lol, typical

[@Hamish1664]

Thank you for illustrating my point so well

[@lmaximus5653]

@@Hamish1664 Oh you really are silly. I'm actually of English heritage lol. I identify as Irish but my name is of Anglo Saxon origin. I have a lot of respect for England, but sometimes you are way too paranoid. Thinking the world is against you.

[@TheItalianAtheist]

"The spirit of the game" you say? Since rugby turned professional (a turn that I don't like, as a matter of fact, but we have to deal with it) has become about winning 1-0, not "preserving the spirit of the game". If you wanted the sportsmanship you had to keep it amateurish. Since it's professional gamemanship prevails. The fact is that the early IRFB members don't like for others to challenge the rules the same way they like to do (see last match in Rome where Ireland were allowed lots of offsides by a poor refereeing). When the game was amateurish Italy grew up to beat France at their home, Ireland three time in 2 years, Scotland and almost beat Sir Clive's England at Huddersfield (Troncon's try was cancelled by Frenchman Mené for a forward pass that only he saw). Are we sure that the ability to keep the pace for the whole 80 minutes is due only to training? See the women's Six Nations where Italy regularily wins at least 2 or 3 matches per tournament and all the teams run out of gas after similar mileage.....