WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: The Future of Football Cards from Panini & Fanatics - with Darren Rovell

Geoff talks about the ongoing battle between Panini and Fanatics after the breaking news this week that the NFLPA is breaking it's trading card contract with Panini early.
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iLS Network: www.ilsnetwork.com

[@user-xf2tl8ee3c]

I hate Panini and Fanatics. Both of them have screwed customers over. To see them both beat each other up warms my heart.

[@pokebeaches1097]

Let's just stop having loaded boxes sent to breakers. Its ridiculous

[@hortanokilli7608]

If there is one thing Sports Cards fans love it is hearing about how companies are getting screwed with no thought at all to the customer. Open these licenses back to multiple companies, let them compete and start to make products that are good for the CUSTOMERS again!

[@williamdunlapwaxnews]

Without overproduction that isn't really possible though. 2 max maybe 3. In my opinion.

[@dakotachambers3163]

I just want this hobby to be affordable, no reason a hobby box should be 10k dollars

[@kenlen8029]

Exactly

[@mattm6113]

But a hobby box that isn't 10k then?

[@bigcryptocrazyal3433]

A seamless smooth transition would be better. My hope is that Fanatics will make everything better that Panini sucks at. Redemption cards, way too many brands and sub-brands that are garbage, a billion Prizm Silvers(They should be numbered), and when they can’t get an athlete to sign his card, offer up better cards in return for an auto you will never get. 2023 is a huge year for football cards, don’t screw it up or everyone will start hating the industry

[@michaelsockwell7602]

The best thing that could come out of this is if we find out panini had a contract breach because they were loading boxes for large breakers like Backyard and that’s why they lost licensing

[@JasonDonnar]

Could fanatics ever buy upper deck and keep the name like they did for Topps? That way we could get Jordan and Lebron autos again - never knew why fanatics hasn’t tried to buy out upper deck

[@sethfelice5900]

I doubt they want them, but you never know.

[@JasonDonnar]

@@sethfelice5900 I just read Lebron contract is up with upper deck and he’s signing with fanatics so yea that answers that lol

[@user-xf2tl8ee3c]

Yes I am a sportscard investor hater. (Although I did initially start of as a defender but that zero cool nonesense knocked me off that bandwagon). BUT Geoff did a great job with explaining the situation and giving possible roadblocks and other scenarios. This is his sweet spot and the type of content that is actually valuable for the audience

[@warjakal]

they say breach contract over management but fanatics took 34 positions from pannini and they get the nflpa sounds like monopoly and fanatics should get hammered for it lose nfl and all make it for all companys

[@GreenBayPack]

That'll never happen. As long as UpperDeck has the rights to NHL, and Panini holds on to wwe, nascar and so on, there is no monopoly.

[@iBangADrum]

😂 Panini is the evil that needs to get weeded out. Bring on Topps and fanatics please... I for one will love having BOX AND PACK ODDS ON NY PRODUCT.

[@GreenBayPack]

@Recur 🎉🎉2 years waiting for redemptions and putting out 3000$ pack of cards with fake patches. So long Panini 👋

[@gamerzeject]

. @GreenBayPack Don't you guys understand that it won't get better with Fanatics taking over. The same quality issues already exist with Topps/Fanatics. Stuff will be printed to the moon. Fanatics sucks just as bad as Poonini

[@GreenBayPack]

@gamerzeject not even close. When's the last time a topps product had a fake mem? How about a sticker auto or a ridiculous wait time for a redemption? Topps chrome, a flagship product, had NO redemptions.

[@BlackBeardBreakz]

The legal costs of this kindergarten battle is going to get passed on to the customers (US !!) -- Fanatics obviously has much deeper pockets then Panini and is out to bankrupt Panini -- Panini is in deep water and may end up selling which is the end goal of Fanatics !! Just my 2 cents -- right or wrong :)

[@user-xf2tl8ee3c]

Topps, Panini, and Upperdeck should be allowed licenses to all the 4 major sports. A monopoly would be disastrous for the hobby. Competition brings innovation, improved customer service and lower prices. I’ve already stopped buying product from Topps directly and now just buy singles for baseball. I’ll need to start that strategy for football now also

[@johndenden86]

AWE!!

[@randym495]

Isn't that how the Junk Wax Era happened? Too many different companies making too many cards.

[@user-xf2tl8ee3c]

@@randym495 manufacturers flooded the market with an excess of cards by over printing. They can learn from this. Also back then we had 6+ different companies. Now we have 3. Also over printing is what Topps and Panini are both doing right now anyways. Look at how many different rookie cards are available for any given player in any recent year now

[@zmm4725]

From the NFLPA's perspective, revenue and profitability is actually maximized by a monopology or oligopoly. Since this all goes back to the must-have with is licensing, the game theory optimal play is to control the market in a way that supply is limited and prices are higher.

[@trentbateman]

@@zmm4725that’s why the government has to step in to prevent monopolies as they are almost always best for businesses and terrible for consumers

[@stevenash1215]

"The suggested breach is over 'a change in control,'" Boies said, referencing that the contract has a provision that states that if there is a management change, the NFLPA can terminate its deal. -Per Action News. Just throwing this out there.

[@snugzgiddens3238]

So then I would assume fanatics knew this when hiring away the upper level people from Panini?

[@miked5580]

Keep the great content coming! Really enjoy it

[@danc8458]

Lol Ok Will GRIER holder

[@christopherredmon3525]

What about redemptions that are sitting there. Unfortunately not everyone can go to the Nationals to pick up black boxes. Those people just have to sit there and wait.... what about the damaged cards that were sent in for replacements?

[@tonysin77]

haven't bought any nfl or nba cards since panini. looking forward to Topps Chrome coming back!

[@kevinhayes7967]

Then you missed out. Topps isn't guaranteed to be any better given all the mistakes I have seen with baseball: bad qc, rc's not in the product, stolen auto cards then backdoored, etc...

[@sethfelice5900]

Fanatics/Topps should peak next year (for NFL). This year's sets will be hastily and sloppy made due to the abrupt changes. In a few years, they'll be overprinting just like Panini does now. I like the change to Fanatics, but it should be 5 years or 10 max... not 20. It will get corrupt just like Panini. They just have no real reason to excel or limit print runs.

[@huskertuna]

now what happens to all the redemptions that are already, and will be pulled?

[@sethfelice5900]

lol good luck... better chance that Santa Claus stops at your house

[@hellanodikai]

Darren mentions at 26:29 that Fanatics has a deal with the NFLPA and the NFL. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe Fanatics was only able to strike a deal with NFLPA, not NFL.

[@FANO562]

this was great breakdown thanks guys!

[@corybeckman968]

Get your 2023 panini NFL now! Prices are about to skyrocket!!!

[@pokebeaches1097]

Sold out less than 24hrs later

[@sportscardyankee2151]

Lets Go I took everything on the shelf of my Walmart even NBA Prizm 2023 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@tgcanes]

A contract cannot be unilaterally declared to be a breach as the events that lead to the alleged breach is a question of fact. And if they want to point to the issue that Panini has lost essential employees - which we now know are with Fanatics- only strengthens Panini’s antitrust lawsuit versus Fanatics. It also opens the door to a massive lawsuit vs the NFLPA as a co-defendant and potentially being in collusion with Fanatics. Discovery will tell all and if Panini plays its cards right (no pun intended)in my opinion this move by the NFLPA strengthens its claims vs Fanatics and the NFLPA

[@sawyercolosimo6674]

Can someone tell me if they have any idea If 2023 panini prizm/select will drop? Besides draft picks

[@TheLegendofBrettMorrison]

Fanatics has been in every stadium ive been in for Years in their team shops.. i hope their cards are better than there Gear and Clothes cuz i own 0 fatatics apparel

[@kevinhayes7967]

That's because the qc only the gear is trash

[@blakesbreaksrips7088]

Topps Chrome Football 2023!!!! Let's Go!

[@kingcah5407]

The leagues and PA’s should just do percentages agreements with every company and then let the strong survive. Why limit yourself to just one company when you could raking in cash from multiple. The consumers will then decide who succeeds and who goes under.

[@bobbyandelena]

Like Geoff or not I haven’t seen much else about this online worth watching. And it seems like the same old Vegas story of the house will always win.

[@terrysloat1891]

This is crazy. The hobby will never be the same once fanatics takes over. Junk wax 2.0 comings soon.

[@sethfelice5900]

I think it'll be ok for a few years. Long term, who knows. You're probably right... they all print about as many as they can sell.... and then some more. ...But hey: Panini does junk wax now... TLaw or any guy has over 200 different rookie cards... 1/1, /5, /10, /25, /49, /99, /199, /499, /999, color parallels, non-game patches, RPAs, sticker autos, on card autos, many inserts, numbered and special versions of all of those inserts too, etc. All of those are in every one of dozens of card sets. If that's not junk wax volume, I do not know what is. :)

[@terrysloat1891]

@@sethfelice5900 you're 100% correct we've been in a junk Era for a couple years now. Let's call in junk wax 2.1 Lol

[@Bruno2777]

Panini was already milking the crap out of that license and starting a junk wax era...

[@TheCatheterCozy]

​@@sethfelice5900so well take those "numbered to" examples you used. Do you really think having 1,886 Trevor Lawrence rookie cards printed for a particular set is comparable to junk wax? Keep in mind, junk wax printed millions! I can still buy 1995 fleer ultra nba for 100 bucks a box...

[@kevinhayes7967]

I really hope Fanatics loses all these lawsuits. I want licensed leaf products, licensed upper deck, licensed topps, licensed panini products for all sports.

[@kentstevens1454]

Fanatics owns Topps

[@rickinquest]

You know Panini is probably going to say "F' You n' F' Off !!!" to customers and their Football redemption cards by voiding obligations. Now is the time to call about 'em and see if you can get crossover compensation or "points" for any overdue unfulfilled football autographs. I don't think the cards or Panini brand should falter or see surges other than weird misguided FOMO spec buyers trying to manipulate the market of fall for that manipulation of perceived scarcity or demand and false sense of increased values. "It is what it is" so regardless of what happens, I think their flagship "Prizm" brand should thrive and survive retaining popularity, but other than that, most of the other stuff will be based on aesthetics and print runs as far as value and long term popularity. Look at the 90's fleer basketball inserts. I feel Panini's "Downdown" football inserts might be one to buy or hold, but other than that, I'm not sure what's a good or a bad buy based on this news.

[@dhughes636]

My guess on the lawsuits, NFL, nba, nbapa, and nflpa is that they enjoy the extra income that comes from sports cards, but that none of them actually gives a crap about the cards or the brands or the hobby shops or the collectors at all not one bit, so they don’t care how long it takes to hash out since they will still eventually make their money from it one way or another

[@johnwozniak1218]

Nice!

[@blakesbreaksrips7088]

I've been waiting what feels like forever for you to make this video.. thanks for the content!

[@sonnysamu2645]

Litigation costs alone will do in panini. That being said i dont know how the NBA does not follow suit. This is not looking good for dealers and collectors. Just my .02.

[@bluewand]

Here comes 350 random player 1/1’s including parallels numbered to 999 😂

[@gamerzeject]

They're already here with other Topps products.

[@pokebeaches1097]

And all the 1/1s magically being opened by breakers

[@andrewkensington3377]

With this whole panini fanatics thing where does upper deck stand upper deck is keeping quiet…🤔

[@littleshopintheshed]

Taylor Swift may have signed a merch deal with Fanatics, and the Revenue connected with her and NFL may be worth more than what they could ever make with Panini over the new couple years.

[@wvmikep]

Word is the breach was change in management in Panini.

[@maninthevan53]

Bring back Upper Deck

[@paulburket]

Any kid who buys a single pack of Topps Football should have a chance of getting the best/rarest cards. Excluding them is short sided and quite frankly unAmerican.

[@kenlen8029]

Yep

[@josephsciascia217]

First

[@505polarbcards]

Should we start buying what’s left on the shelves?

[@kennethsalter9998]

I Just Hope we have multiple Companies 2 compete ! This BS is confusing the game for the people!

[@802Projects]

Panini should work out a deal with Upper Deck.

[@5starcollectibles103]

Panini and Leaf join forces.

[@RWorfel1]

And now Ohtani cards come crashing back down. Rough week for the hobby.

[@RWorfel1]

@@ozsportscardcollector2.512 I don’t think anyone signs him on a mega contract now. He’s headed for major off season surgery and will likely miss at least half of 2024. And when he comes back he’s almost certainly going to be just a DH for a while

[@maninthevan53]

LOL this looks like a sue for sue and then there is a common ground where they both kiss and make up

[@luckyv23]

How many times does do you have blink your eyes 😂

[@brucehardy1942]

I think panini has a case now…

[@joelebstein]

I’m pretty sure a a man who is worth $11.4 billion has consulted with the best lawyers in the country and the NFLPA before it decided to do this. Don’t underestimate Fanatics. They didn’t just decide to do this last week. Fanatics and the NFLPA are going to win this. That’s how billionaires roll. They usually don’t loose

[@pokebeaches1097]

Not if they breached the contract

[@RyanDale-pc5li]

What did that famous Dave guy say?

[@sethfelice5900]

I'm not sure famous guys wear t-shirts and don't shave, but ok. He said Panini has NFL logos (for a few more years), Fantatic has NFL player names (as of that NFLPA switch). Common sense. Fanatics will buy now panini, obviously. NFLPA termination is probably just a ploy to knock the price down. That was known as soon as the NFLPA news broke. Neither can make any decent cards without what the other has. Nobody wants cards without players or cards with no teams/logos on them (see stupid Bowman football cards). Expect Fanatic to buy Panini in the next month or two, it's just a matter of price now. As to NFL card prices, I'd guess the 2023 panini early sets they can sell will be worth very little and whatever 2023 NFL that Fanatics cranks out (Topps, etc) once they get the logo rights will be popular, even though it's rushed and probably not great quality stuff. People always like what's new, and they are fed up with Panini and want a change. The Fanatics monopoly for 20 years could get sketchy, though.

[@nylontusk1289]

So why is panini still making cards? There continuing to release their brands and its nearly February 2024. So what does effective immediately mean? Did Fanatics have any cards made up for 2023-2024? If so why didn't they release them and why is panini aloud to continue releasing their cards? Wtf is going on? Seriously

[@matthewhull5598]

This is so good for the hobby. Thanks for getting the news spread for us all.

[@pingmao2444]

fanatics monopoly is not good for hobby

[@matthewhull5598]

The panini monopoly for ten years hasn’t been great either.

[@hitmanskid-td4pg]

good if u have 20,000,000 alrdy in cards 😂. fanatics will 10x em in five years

[@kevinhayes7967]

How is it good for the hobby? How much unlicensed product are you buying this year?

[@matthewhull5598]

@@kevinhayes7967 plenty of good stuff out there I like and buy … plenty of hobby objects that don’t require a licence and a narrow view

[@paulburket]

Panini bought how many brands at this point? Topps buying Panini is no different.

[@teetoo3790]

Foot ball cards just Quarterbacks. 90 percent fail. People bored. Barbie number one movie in the world and Oliver Anthony number one singer. People bored with super heroes.

[@taylorkoss5106]

The main issue with how you are discussing this issue if you keep saying Panini doesn't have the NFLPA license. ..But they do. the NFLPA cannot unilaterally break a deal 3 years early without legitimate cause to breach. I keep hearing everyone say that the NFLPA would never have done this without a smoking gun.. I disagree. If they had this smoking gun, it would have been in Block letters and underlined in the press release. Favid Boies, lawyer for Panini says the claimed breach is a change of management at Panini. We all know any change of employees at Panini is solely the result of Fanatcis poaching 6-67 employees. There is no court or arbitrator that will allow Fanatics, the party that benefit most from a breach, to cause the breach, and then sit back and reap the rewards. Not to mention, that the employees they took , according to Boies, don't even establish any real change of leadership. Panini immediately filed for arbitration, which is what you would have expected the NFLPA to do if they had the goods. This all smells like an orchestrated power move by fanatics to lower the acquisition cost of Panini. the NFL won't hop on if this is the weak grounds for the breach. It will never hold up. Panini shouldn;t and won't stop producing cards, unless an injunction is granted. .Panini is more likely to seek and obtain an injunction to prevent fanatics from releasing nfl cards. Panini has not lost the license just because the NFLPA says so. let a court or arbitrator weigh in.

[@taylorkoss5106]

and for NFLPA to get an injunction for panini to stop selling cards they will need to prove a likelihood of success on the merits. They could never do that if their only cause for breach is this lame change of management argument.

[@WowColorFight]

If we see "Topps Chrome" football, it'll go over like a wet fart. WE WANT SOMETHING NEW!!!!

[@El_Thoroughbred]

Welcome to the age of monopolies in the oligarch, corporate takeover of America! Fanatics is now the only business in town for sports gear and collectibles. Cool. Time to collect something else...

[@kylehartley4724]

Doesn't panini have a separate license with the NFL that gives them team name and logo rights? Their 'individual' contracts coupled with their NFL license should allow them to produce sets with the 330 folks they have under contract. The NFLPA holds the rights to players but not team names and logos. That is a separate contract with the NFL directly per my understanding

[@simepoh]

FYI. Some professional teams logos are owned by the team and not the league. This allows the team to produce merchandise and profit from these logos without getting always getting approval/giving royalties to the league.

[@user-rs8xk8jl7f]

I don't believe not having nfl license hurts bad. If u remember early 80s topps didn't have it and still survived and those r some of the most sought out rookies like Montana.

[@kingcah5407]

2023 football probably isn’t worth buying anyways. Panini probably pinching every penny on the way out. Probably nothing but garbage panini points and other nonsense in all their releases going forward.

[@Fred_Nickles]

Panini is garbage I got a box that was short all the good chance cards, each 5 card pack had 4 base cards. I have not gotten even a response from them. All done buying panini cards that's for sure.

[@alcoholica1986]

Will Grier 4x > Kyler Murray

[@stevem1148]

I kind of like the drama not gonna lie lol

[@JohnnyLightningV10]

Will Grier just got released 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@brushben22]

Leaf is about to get their biggest pay day yet. Buy your Young , Stroud , Levi’s Autos now

[@heinzdelf]

Panini turned Garbage 🗑 long ago

[@nicgroves6116]

This is such a weird channel lmao

[@williamdunlapwaxnews]

How?

[@user-bl5ye8fu6r]

Maybe less football cards in 2023 is a good thing.

[@gabrielpreston8832]

Will our current panini sports cards become less valuable now?

[@bigal98761]

Probably be more valuable since you can't get them anymore

[@Diamond-Pipes777]

​@@bigal98761Yes, Absolutely Correct🏈

[@dacryptkeeper6836]

Time to find a new hobby!

[@kevinhayes7967]

Agreed!

[@gumshoe7237]

that's about the most short sighted comment I've come across , just don't collect the new stuff you don't like , don't bash the hobby that people like myself have been a part of for 40 plus years . there's certain players and cards I won't touch either but I don't go on line and tell people to find a new hobby .. smh ..

[@kevinhayes7967]

@gumshoe7237 The way I read that comment he was speaking for himself not directing others to do the same.

[@dacryptkeeper6836]

@@gumshoe7237 I'm NOT telling ANYONE to find a new hobby - but myself! At my age I can afford to be short sighted. Furthermore, I am NOT bashing the hobby - which I have been in since the 60's. Maybe you should quit trying to read too much into things!!!!!!

[@dacryptkeeper6836]

@@kevinhayes7967 EXACTLY!!!

[@pk3739]

You’re about a day behind here. We know what the nflpa/fanatics had now.

[@TXNitroFord]

What was it?

[@pk3739]

Panini filed a suit today with specifics around what the nflpa claimed to have against em. No need for speculation any longer.

[@JoeKyser]

I thought I put do not recommend channel. I guess this is a different one. Peace out

[@fatmirsejdini5992]

Panini nfl going to be the next absolute 😂😂, I love to see panini crash and burn. Nba next

[@kenlen8029]

Nice. Panini is a terrible company.

[@brianogrodnick1382]

Pinini and it's redemption cards suck I been waiting for a long time for a mark mcgwire auto patch come on it not like he is playing he retired so he should of signed long time ago

[@danc8458]

Where my WILL GRIER holders at??? 😂😂😂

[@jamesnguyen7069]