The Toxic Mindset That Is Killing AAA Gaming

[@W0nderStress]

The train station metaphor was really when everyone was like "wow we're never getting anything good in this game again"

[@DerrickOlejownik-z6i]

I think as a whole year expansion witch queen was very good. I get what you’re saying though

[@theswatteam1909]

​@@DerrickOlejownik-z6i WQ was the best DLC they've ever made. Then throughout the year we basically got the mediocre seasonal timegated grindy content that nobody really wants to do.

[@JimmyYYK9241]

For real. I don't think Bungie realized how much that presentation damaged the morale of the players when the speech was covered by pretty much all D2 content creators. This should have been a internal presentation. Telling the players "Hey, we heard you liked y2 because it was loaded with content, well we are just not gonna do that anymore" was such a letdown.

[@Honed-]

@@DerrickOlejownik-z6i ehhh,,,,, it was just the story that was, kinda good (oh and wep crafting, tho some people hate it, i enjoyed it, disappointed there removing it, part of why I'm not even playing)... but then after witch queen we got lightfall,, so..... it was like they give us a good story, and then they give us actual trash. the subclass is fun, but everything else was pretty awful.

[@deeman.0151]

@@theswatteam1909witch queen wasn’t the best dlc we’ve had at all, the only good things to come from that expansion were the story the raid and crafting. there was genuinely nothing else that dlc did to alter or improve the game in a fundamental way. we got 1 new strike and 1 new location that is still useless to this day. i’m tired of people saying “oh this expansion was so good” when it added virtually nothing to the game besides a campaign, a raid and weapon crafting which arguably did more harm than good for some people.

[@GloverGaming3]

"First trust, then retention, then revenue" They've gone and reversed that philosophy as well. Now it's revenue > retention > trust. They no longer give af about the players, and that's obvious. They've hopped onto the "game development is hard and gamers are mean" train, which I'm just waiting for that train to crash and burn

[@hxrlequin]

They then proceed to say that they overdelivered with Forsaken, after their masterplan worked out :D ... and announce that it probably won't happen again

[@gigadrillbreakk]

All these companies are coasting off the trust they built up. So they can exploit the ever loving shit outta their customers.

[@chrisdavid4017]

Preach preach!

[@arkhamsgaming4750]

They don't even care about their own devs like they have said they want to do more for us players but can't because of parson and corporate board that just don't care the games they creat nor the devs that work on them nor us players

[@meVladowski]

its a cycle

[@kingdedede966]

I don’t know why people pretend the Witness story started ten years ago when it really didn’t start until Shadowkeep at the absolute earliest. They had no overall direction at all from Vanilla D1 into Forsaken.

[@headphonesaxolotl]

It's only because of the existence of Darkness as the greater scope villain. They retconned the idea of the Darkness being sentient to being a force used by a Darkness entity called the Witness sometime around 2018/19.

[@DeaconPain]

This is true. For the longest time it was (sort of) clear that the darkness and the light were like two unknowable living concepts that existed outside of the universe that were playing some sort of endless game and humanity was another pawn on the board. But then the witness blah blah on and then the concept of the darkness was changed into being the source of consciousness and memory instead of diametrically opposed to the light. It honestly made all the fantastic wild and weird stuff in the world less mystical when its just ol' smokey skull coming to get us.

[@amysteriousviewer3772]

The truth is that Destiny never had a good story. Some of the lore is interesting but the present-tense storytelling was always mediocre at best and not even up to early Halo standards.

[@kalashydra9016]

they definiteli didnt have any character/face for darkness but the foundation was there (pretty weak af foundation but eh it was not nothing)

[@DeaconPain]

@kalashydra9016 see I thought it was gonna be the pyramids. A pyramid is the simplest 3D shape you can make while a sphere is the most complex which informs the philosophy of darkness and light (until the witness came about). And it followed the logic of the metaphorical lore entry about the light craving infinite complexity and the darkness constantly wanting the garden game to resolve into a single simple form.

[@MynameisByf]

Hi… wanted to note something here seeing as you mentioned me. My burnout was predominantly because I took on another large project (Dragon Age), which went waaay above what I expected in scope. I also hadn’t taken a break for a while and was going to back in August, then layoffs happened and I figured I had to put some serious work into pivoting to doing more than just Destiny content. I’m not sure I’m burnt out on telling the stories in Destiny, but I am looking at Bungie and praying that they’re absorbing all the lessons from their mistakes. I think what you said about the story having its Thanos moment is spot on. It’s the number one reason why people saw a jumping off point. If bungie had been a more respectful publisher and dev towards its players during its independence I think people might’ve wanted to keep playing the game. Glad you mad this video dude. It’s an important insight and I hope Bungie’s devs bring this to upper management and talk about the poison pills that’s been slowly killing Destiny’s player base.

[@zSleepless]

I don’t blame you at all for slowing down with destiny based stuff. After all, you’ve been doing it for literally a decade now. And doing 40k has been interesting as well, one of those universes you can talk about forever. I think destiny is like that too, but bungie needs to do a better job retaining players and telling their story. I would agree I think the main reason players stopped playing was because the Final Shape served as a jumping off point. And while they successfully wrapped up a 10-year storyline (which I’m sure was a primary goal), Bungie did a very poor job of projecting the game’s future for players. We need a reason to stick around, and “no more large form expansion content” is basically equivalent to “game dead” because that’s what we look forward to.

[@ulthanesmorkums]

Oh God, it's you. 🤢

[@Wolfiee420]

i dont blame you with the lack of content in this game atm

[@noisypuff]

[@itztizzle]

Yes I couldn’t remember if I read it in a tweet or heard it in a video of yours. About you being burnt out. But it is completely understandable. 2024 was a whirlwind for all D2 creators. Even before the madness of the final shape, you put out that insanely well done video on the lore of Destiny from inception to Final Shape. A slow down was inevitable. No person or team can maintain that pace. Just want to say thank you for all you do and all your hard work. I literally depend on your videos to make sense of what is happening in Destiny. When I am gaming, I am often focused on my build or streaming, so I can’t take in the story. And then I watch your videos to keep me informed. But I know even for me, a diehard of this game, I’m starting to lose interest a little bit, even though I don’t want to. And I do think it’s because the overarching storyline is complete. Again, thanks for all you do for this community. I’ll see you starside 🫡❤

[@danielreiley2903]

The only time Bungie puts out bangers for Destiny 2 is when they're backed in a corner and about to go under. But if they're "stable" then they just put out whatever and call it a day.

[@TheNemisisx]

Yep and then they'll claim "oh sorry we over delivered last time". Like what kind of an excuse is that, you set the bar to a good standard then couldn't be bothered keeping up with that? You guys deserved to get laid off

[@NoSmoke1]

None of the people making those decisions were the ones laid off. Someone in actual game dev would never look forward to putting out a subpar product.​@@TheNemisisx

[@jonathanwilliams3713]

So, should we expect a great expansion between the huge player dips then? Just like they're planning with the 6 month expansion plan? I’m fine with that. The key point is that players are telling Bungie there's competition, and they can’t just expect loyalty if they don't deliver. That’s a positive pressure on developers. While some recent content wasn’t perfect, much of it was fun, and they’re experimenting with new ideas (like tonics). Not every experiment will work, but the fact that they’re trying to innovate shows they’re committed to improving the game. If one of these experiments clicks, Bungie will generate hype like they did with Witch Queen and TFS. Despite player drop-offs and layoffs (which were partly due to poor leadership after over-hiring during COVID), I believe we’re on track for some of the best Destiny content yet. Bungie’s back is against the wall, and they have to deliver in a competitive market. And yeah, I know how insanely cope this sounds -- but I believe it.

[@alter6243]

@@jonathanwilliams3713 The Final Shape was supposed to be that, and clearly it wasn’t. The expansion needed to be better than Forsaken and Taken King, it wasn’t. Destiny is done until it gets a Destiny 3. No amount of updates and new content will fix the issues Destiny 2 has. We need new things, new destinations to explore, new characters, new modes, and an overall new experience for the player. Destiny 2 is a game with practically no foundation with how much of it has been deleted. Unvault D2 content while they make a D3. Power creep has reached a point of significantly hurting the value of loot, systems like crafting while helpful, went against the identity Destiny used to have. Not to mention most players will craft weapons the exact same way, ultimately giving making them curated roles but with an extended grind to it.

[@jonathanwilliams3713]

@alter6243 we're going to new destinations, seeing new characters, getting new modes, and getting a overhaul on the way we engage with loot in this upcoming expansion from what they've said in their dev blogs. Take it with a grain of salt, though, of course. Bungie could fail to deliver. I just don't think they have the choice to sandbag anything anymore so I'm hopeful. And I'm not sure what you mean about Final Shape. Final Shape was incredible. It was the episodic model that followed that was terrible. Aaaand they're scraping it because it didn't work for players.

[@stok5445]

Current Bungie and Destiny 2 had a permanent impact on myself as a consumer. I grew up with Bungie-era Halo. Reach came out while I was in Junior year of high school and I spent most of my childhood wanting to work for Bungie. I learned about computers, went to game development summer camps, events, and local jams, & even majored in Computer Science at college all so that I could try to work there. I put an ungodly amount of time into Destiny 1 and a bunch into Destiny 2 as well. What really killed it for me though was the second that Bungie began discussing the "content vault". When I heard about that, I dropped the game and never came back. It's been almost five years since I played. Bungie has managed to perfect the art of making people hate them and all I hope is that they reap what they sowed. I went from idolizing Bungie to now only wishing for the total failure and collapse of the company. I hope D2 does fade away and I hope Marathon releases to abysmal player numbers. Anyone who continues to support Bungie after all they have done to harm the industry is part of the problem. People need to stand up for themselves and stop giving their money and time to companies that want to just eat up their consumers and spit them back out.

[@malo6748]

I agree, I also really liked D1 and 2 and then they added the vault which basically erased all my payed dlcs. Instantly left. Played one time again on geforcenow a few months ago and the game feels so bland and empty now and at every corner they ask you for money. kinda sad to hear, D1 was supposed to be a 10 year project which would have its anniversary this year but instead its basically a dead IP at this point.

[@OfficerDowns]

Same, I never forgave them for taking away my hard earned Not Forgotten after giving it to everyone

[@amysteriousviewer3772]

I think the sad thing about it is that in a vacuum Destiny's gameplay is still absolutely fantastic. That's why people have kept coming back for so long despite everything. Unfortunately the game around it and the company making it just sucks nowadays.

[@dixon137]

Current bungie could never make a halo reach today.. To many curvy women for their liking and too much blood

[@Matheus-ki9zo]

I absolutely agree. But just like buddy said up there, my problem with that is that I absolutely love Destiny's gameplay. The characters, the gunplay, the abilities, the graphics... if I could have this as an offline game, I would kiss goodbye to Bungie.

[@humrH2360]

The "overdelivery" spiel remains as one of the most insulting parts of Justin's diatribe. "Overdelivery" is something that only exists because it means that you intended to half-ass your product. It means you think you're asking too little of your customer, and that you don't understand the customer is giving something that is worth infinitely more than money: *_TIME._* Money, people can make back, but no amount of time they give is *_ever_* coming back. Being someone who works in small business manufacturing, time is of the essence and we have to figure out shortcuts to making the best products we can with minimal time wasted, because greater efficiency doesn't come at the cost of quality. If it does, it's not increasing efficiency, it's cutting corners. Justin would get the boot immediately because he's not looking for shortcuts, he's looking to cut corners. To a true craft or tradesman, there's no such thing as "overdelivery" - it's only *_exactly_* the amount of knowledge and skill you put into it.

[@jp5440]

Amen

[@FebreezyWeezy]

Amen

[@GhostRydr1172]

As another content creator pointed out - maybe seriously or in jest - Bungie hates referring to Rise of Iron because it was a year of overdelivery. I can see that, considering how fast ROI was produced and all the FANTASTIC content that final year of D1 delivered. Especially compared to the barely no content in it vanilla D2 released just a year later.

[@alexanderminas28]

Aiat.

[@davidborjon6169]

Finally someone could say it In nicer words then I could

[@tobisi]

I too have 10k+ hours in Destiny 2, run my own clan and have brought tons of new players into the game. The days of passion are over. No more weekly raids with the respective challenges because players don't come online anymore, not even fishing together anymore because Bungie took that out as well. I hope that Sony makes the right decisions to bring D2 back to its former strength. Thank you for the effort you put into this video.

[@itztizzle]

@@tobisi thank you! Nice to hear from another hardcore destiny player that they feel the same way. Seen this sentiment a lot among long time players

[@Pretralus]

Damn, yeah fishing really did just get Thanos snapped😂

[@derpy_j]

I legit enjoyed fishing for the fooshies - it was a great way to honestly unwind :/ I still play D2, albeit alone, so if you need an active player for activites, I can help out!

[@FudgyTheWhale_]

You burnt yourself out and say the passion is gone Lmaoo

[@wolfcoma]

Is your clan dead or still fairly active?

[@htmn_2]

As the "Dont go for quality, go for quantity" line dropped, that should be the point at which every sane person does a quick self evaluation and leaves the room. The whole corpo industry does constant dev burnout, with seasonal "We are currently actively hiring", replacing the "burned" and "uninspired", then just moving on like nothing wrong is being done, because its all still "on schedule". For the corpo everybody is a tool with one purpose. Eff the corpo!!

[@KaijuAlert]

I love that line 'at Bungie, our artists get to be scientists too'. Artists don't want to be scientists. Trying to turn art into science is at the heart of this cancer in the gaming industry.

[@elseggs6504]

Gaming is one niche where that line genuinely gets blurry. All those visuals arent just made by people with loads of creativity. It takes smarts to put those on the screen with a reasonable performance. D2 still looks pretty good despite being quite old

[@KaijuAlert]

@elseggs6504 If you watch the video and understand the quote, it's nothing to do with that. The quote is in relation to how Bungie use data to drive their decisions, stopping artists from being creative by forcing them to develop content based on player data rather than being innovative or taking risks.

[@ginopippofrebooter-ilrinne2881]

I actually don't see the issue with that sentence. Bungie's art team has always delivered, always experimented. Their way of approaching (the chemical formula) is a winner. Note: I have seen the video. That segment with the youtuber talking doesn't make sense. I mean, using the line by reinforcing the argument is wrong, he should have said something else.

[@KaijuAlert]

@ Their approach is not a winner, they've been bleeding players for years and burning through the goodwill of the ones that remained by giving us the same recycled, low-effort content for years. When Destiny 2 moved the quarterly episodes model, the innovation dropped off dramatically. There is no room to innovate when the next train is arriving at the station.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

What do they even mean by ‘science’?

[@yodamf]

"We create worlds that inspire friendship" -- lmao, that's stupid just on the face of things, but in the context of D2 with its complete lack of social features it's extra hilarious.

[@tombombadil3589]

And the absence of any decent new player experience.

[@wredue3733]

And TBH, it's not even true. They have multiple non-cis relationships, but the one that is always front and center is consistently written for tweens and below. Zero maturity. It's honestly bigoted in the same way "men writing women" constantly is. Is being a grown ass adult behaving like a tween what bungie views as a "gay relationship"?

[@slorbonmyknorb777]

@@wredue3733 facts. companies writing these characters as inclusion-box checking types is more damaging than just not having the representation. nobody should be playing a video game for affirmations on their sexuality.

[@smiIingman]

FR, I played Destiny 2 when it launched (My 1st destiny experience ever) and i couldnt last more than 2 months because *NO ONE WAS SPEAKING* and i had 0 clue how to socialize with people.

[@Thebub44]

It’s why I left to FF14 - so I can at least do the raids and content. Feel like Destiny just gate keeps the best content for no reason.

[@keselekbakiak]

Bungie once reduce exp gain to sell their exp buff. After significant backlash, they returned the number of exp gain, and stealthily increase the exp cap.

[@theGentlemanCaller73]

I went back to Borderlands. After a five-year break, i picked up right where i left off. No FOMO. No battle pass. No sunset content. One power grind and that's it. Over 1,000 hours and I'm still learning new things and earning guns I never had. I'm off the D2 hamster wheel.

[@Chados.]

You did what many can't. "STOPPED"

[@talion4033]

@@Chados.with the current state of the game it’s easier than ever. I’d be very surprised if destiny survives to the end of the year

[@coasterplay1062]

@@theGentlemanCaller73 people that felt trapped in a „Destiny 2 hamster wheel“ and have to shout it out into the world how free they are now, should maybe take a closer look at their mental stability. And I don’t mean that offensive in any way. It’s just worrying how many people talk about feeling free and better after they stopped. I mean do you wanna fool someone? Or is it like a serious unhealthy addiction?

[@theGentlemanCaller73]

@@coasterplay1062 thanks. I'm fine. It was just a statement of fact. I didn't mean anything other than I've moved on.

[@mannyduran8458]

I don't see anything wrong with battle passes warframe has them and it's free 😂

[@Steamcrow]

I remember when this gdc talk came out. From a design/developer perspective I couldn’t imagine working in the culture Bungie had cultivated. Towards the end of the talk when he speaks about actively denying ideas for the game, regardless if they were good for the game or just for fun, in an effort to stifle future player expectations was absolutely baffling. I couldn’t think of a more appalling culture to try and be creative in.

[@MrNigel117]

i remember that when the clips were first making the rounds back in season of the plunder. hearing incessant complaints from players that the seasonal model is boring and there needs to be something new, and then hearing about them cancel creativity so they don't over deliver and raise player expectations felt really awful as a disgruntled player. then in final shape they said they are removing the current seasonal model and pivoting to episodes, just for it to be a slightly modified version of seasons that are now longer and now with time-gated passes. it just felt like a slap in the face, and now they are paying the price for their lack of innovation.

[@Steamcrow]

@MrNigel117 Yeah I had to chuckle a little bit when I saw they had switched from Seasons to “Episodes”. I haven’t touched Destiny in years, largely due to the seasonal model itself, but the description for episodes sounded an awful lot like seasons with a new name xD. It’s a big shame too because that universe has so much potential, but boy is it suffering from their current design philosophy.

[@CaptainClark23]

I can’t believe people are still spreading this nonsense… Developer burnout was at an all time high and mentioned frequently within gaming journalism space. The particular dev conducting this presentation was talking about the realities of content production creep and the importance of not setting yourself up for failure in the future. If a studio continually compounds the amount of content each and every season, player expectations have crept beyond the resources available. Part of this can mean that at times, any ideas - utter trash or the coolest things ever - are prone to this have to be refused. Resource management is a reality in many industries - game development is one such. Bungie’s senior management have a gross fixation on ROI as well which, I imagine, doesn’t make it easier for the developers who probably enjoy making cool stuff. Articles on Forbes and such did the rounds, quoting parts out of context and that’s how we ended up with this nonsense. I’ve got my gripes with Bungie (senior management in particular) but let’s stop pretending this is something it’s not. Far out.

[@Steamcrow]

@CaptainClark23 I’d like to establish this from the start, I never read any of the Forbes articles. My viewpoint is based solely off of the entire GDC talk that was given. I’m very well aware resources are limited and not all ideas can be taken and put into the game due to constraints. My comment is addressing his point of cultivating a culture around not wanting to set player expectations to insane heights, and that one such method to accomplish this was the denial of content being put in regardless if it was good for the game or just for the fun of it. But yes, we can all agree, resources are limited and time constraints for development obviously play a role in the decision making of what goes into the game. That’s a given, no one is refuting that point.

[@GCheckCentral]

​@@CaptainClark23 you do realize that the conditions were brought on purely by the companies greed. Nobody told them to make a micro transaction hellscape but they wanted those fortnite bucks so they added cosmetic skins, sparrow skins, ghost skins and a bunch more garbage to pad out the fact that their business model was short sighted at best.

[@potatopotawto1412]

God how did destiny come to this? I remember my friend bringing the game informer to school that had destiny in it. I remember being so excited I nearly passed out when my uncle got me an Xbox with destiny on Christmas. I remember sitting upstairs with my cousin apart from the rest of the family just so we could set up and play it THAT NIGHT. I built a tower out of books to get my Xbox closer to the second floor of the house because that’s where we kept our router so I could play this game with a smoother connection. Now it’s just some corporate suit of a game. It’s like the grumpy parent in every Christmas movie that has just forgotten the spirit. I hope to god this game’s story has a Christmas movie ending but I just absolutely cannot see that now. The game is now the equivalent of that gray krabby patty from SpongeBob. It looks really good but the second you dig into it you realize it’s just sludge.

[@justarthur1788]

For me the main issue is the lack of fun, you said you used to play crucible with your friends for hours just because you wanted to. I used to do the same with strikes and crucible in D1. Game feels like a chore, that's the biggest problem. Most players have jobs and don't want a second one.

[@itztizzle]

@@justarthur1788 100%

[@toukie2705]

It doesn’t feel like a chore at all I think it’s your mindset you seem like the overly dramatic type

[@julian2883]

The strikes were so much better designed back in the day too.

[@jacktravis2718]

Sorry you’ve lost your ability to feel joy, but me and the homies absolutely have no issue hoppin on for some crucible. We play for an hour or two, have fun meme’ing with some stasis since it’s strong this season, and when we’re done, we’re done. We don’t then go to social media to whine for the next week. We move on and play some helldivers, maybe a raid in some OSRS. You have other games you can play. Stop making yourself miserable.

[@skullabrin3085]

I used to hop on d1 and only play strikes, the sheer difference between the uniqueness of bosses in d1 vs d2 is night and day. Bond brothers, wretched eye, psion flayers all so memorable and fun while most bosses in d2 are "this enemy but BIG" I can't think of any boss that is not unique or has a cool gimmick like some of the older strikes.

[@dougbrown04]

I love how baldy leaves out that forsaken was propped up and mostly developed by outside studios brought in by Activision to force them to make deadlines

[@thestellarvoid7077]

That's why they also slipped in a "we are hiring" poster in their conference. They hired a ton of people, took advantage of them to work on Lightfall (which was atrocious), made a ton of money, then fired everyone. They basically robbed players and workers for profit.

[@lShadow426l]

@@thestellarvoid7077 the expansion was fine, strand is probably the most fun subclass to use, the seasons were god awful though season 22 was solely saved because blam engine doing what blam engine does best, be as broken an unstable in the best way possible for players and a nightmare for devs

[@bluejay7058]

@@lShadow426lexpansion was not fine. Expansion had a nothing burger plot centered around a nothing burger thing called the Veil when just adding the damn DLC as an unlock for strand would’ve been SO much less infuriating: and that’s NOT good thing, or something to be proud of. Lightfall sucked.

[@lShadow426l]

@@bluejay7058 Then Witch queen is also a nothing burger plot by the same standards its actually more of a nothing burger plot because fucking rhulk was ALREADY IN THE THRONE WORLD BEFORE YOU, the witness already had a ship to link to the traveller when he finds the viel, Savathun sealing the traveler away would have doomed everyone since it would have cut our connection and not prevent the witness from getting to it you got crafting and an underused weapon type the throne world also isn't that fun to navigate Savathun knew the plan wouldn't work but that plan was the only offering she had to get the power of the light, which she still has by the way, the viel is also the thing she hid from the Witness back during the first collapse Rhulk is dead before lightfall, Savathun betrayer the witness, and we stopped Eramis from ressurecting nezerec or he would have sent him instead of Calus Salvation and scorn were crippled after the seasonal events leaving only Calus and his clone army he had been amazing after season of the haunted I can't really blame you for not knowing this because for both witchqueen and lightfall they make no fucking sense without knowledge of the removed season stories

[@elseggs6504]

​@@lShadow426l The expansion was a BigMac: Kind of alright but more akin to cardboard than good product

[@mat.b.]

I hate this lie that the 'Witness' was the 'conclusion of the light and dark 10 year saga'. No. It wasnt. It wasnt even a real ending. It was just another filler boss, another stepping stone. Nothing was concluded other than the triangle ship saga. The traveler is still a thing nobody understands, and the Darkness is still out there. The Witness was just a lame rehash of Oryx and the Taken King - that's it. Fans should have no satisfaction with the story if they stuck with it for a decade because 2025 and 2015 have the story in the same place more or less.

[@pooddly9637]

jesus you're sad

[@saxassoon]

I remember watching that presentation when it came out and the way he talked about "First trust, then retention, then revenue" just always sounded off to me. It made it sound like trust was a one time problem to solve, then you could do whatever you want with your game. Trust is an ever present, evolving relationship that needs constant maintenance, and they scrapped that to make more money. Actually insane

[@itztizzle]

very true

[@zarcon666]

That's the same motto casinos use to keep high rollers gambling.

[@Chickymasala]

Whether or not this was the plan, Bungie ended up treated trust as a currency that you can exchange for money. They track the amount of positive sentiment "banked" with the community, to cash it in later when they need to piss people off. it really feels like they treat player numbers as a resource to burn. After Witch Queen's success, someone in planning then went: "Okay we can now afford 9 months of no effort coasting. Let's funnel everything into the other projects!" But the community didn't fall for it a second time. Lightfall post expansion utterly BOMBED because people had figured out that seasons are designed to be nothingburger time sinks, and weren't getting baited again. This necessitated all hands on deck with Into the Light/Final shape. There's a ton of evidence that a lot of the work for the expansion was panic during the last 6 months after the Vidoc whelmed. Noone was preordering. There were no mentions of the Dread and Prismatic initially. Go figure. Final Shape is just all the problems coming together. An expected slump following the end of the saga + players saying 'nah' to episodes/seasons the same way they did during Lightfall + Bungie finally running out of cash and buckling internally.

[@mikoto7693]

That actually sounds manipulative to me. Make the customers trust by working hard on it, then betray it.

[@JC-vx9ht]

Trust, retention, then revenue? More like seduction, addiction, then predation.

[@tubularmonkeymaniac]

Yep, basically a poker machine

[@mikoto7693]

Ah, I was feeling this but couldn’t put it into words.

[@austiinos]

I ended my review of this game some months ago with something like this. What I said was engagement, mtx transactions, and how to make you addicted.

[@stormfly367]

It is just crazy how Justin will say "No New game can show up and immediately beat the existing live services" When the past two years of gaming have proved just how wrong that kind of sentiment is. We have had games like Lethal Company show up out of absolutely NOWHERE and outsell Call of Duty, Helldivers 2 release out of NOWHERE and absolutely crush it with the devs actually listening to players and taking community feedback into consideration, Balatro coming out of NOWHERE and swept almost every award at the game awards and being good enough to be a GOTY nominee, Astrobot releasing right after games like Black Myth Wukong and Warhammer 2 and being so good it ends up WINNING GOTY. If you look even a little bit harder you can find even more examples than what I have mentioned. Safe to say what Justin says is just straight up wrong and is being disproven time and time again.

[@danielo1926]

all those games u named are dead

[@FraserSouris]

I don't think the context is accurate. *>"We have had games like Lethal Company show up out of absolutely NOWHERE and outsell Call of Duty, ""Balatro coming out of NOWHERE and swept almost every award at the game awards and being good enough to be a GOTY nominee, Astrobot releasing right after games like Black Myth Wukong and Warhammer 2 and being so good it ends up WINNING GOTY. "

[@bastion4Saint]

I feel like the biggest misconception is Bungie assuming that player retention equals more spending, when in reality player excitement is what equals more. (They see people feeling obligated to play as the same thing as people wanting to play)

[@bastion4Saint]

The same is true for trust they misinterpret trust for consistency rather than care

[@amysteriousviewer3772]

That's exactly it. The way Destiny 2 is set up makes you feel manipulated and coerced into playing instead of doing it for fun. Just opening up the game is exhausting.

[@Eksistenssi]

there is also the third option which is what i loathe the most. If you manage to make game genre that has virtually no competitors, you can gain money by inducing frustration towards the gameplay aka "Create a problem, then sell the solution". Biggest successful gaming example of this is probably War Thunder made by studio called gaijin. People are willing to spend upwards to 80€ on premium vehicles just to make grinding progress 50% faster. And faster grind in this game is essentially lessened frustration. You can buy 2x Helldivers for that money or almost any other game but because it is the only sim+arcade game of that type, lot of people just don't see the problem

[@justifano7046]

But theyre correct. greater retention means you're either paying in money or in your time.

[@amysteriousviewer3772]

@@bastion4Saint Players spending time does't pay the bills.

[@davialmeida6566]

Every studio wants it's own "Fortinite" to print money, but there's only so much time and money for all the players to spend in all these titles.

[@itztizzle]

@@davialmeida6566 absolutely

[@delta_1632]

Destiny 2 was that for bungie for a long time. Once a game that comes out gets called a "... killer" you know you're the king of that genre, the title to beat, the biggest slice of pie. Some studios would give everything to have a title like D2 in their lineup. But bungie screwed up through all their bad decisions over the years by greed and not focussing on their golden goose but leaving it to slowly bleed out. Splitting resources to Marathon TV shows and other nonsense like Destiny Rising in an attempt to get even more revenue streams, while forsaking their already good existing one.

[@theraven9107]

@@delta_1632 You know that Destiny Rising isn't actually pulling resources from the main game, right? Different developer and publisher entirely. NetEase is the developer and publisher of Rising, and are licensing the IP from Bungie. If anything, Rising is making money for Bungo that *should* be going towards the main game, but Bungie is Bungie so it's probably all being funneled into a car addiction.

[@SilverShot114]

​@@delta_1632tbh they are not making Destiny Rising. But yes, they should have focused on Destiny: D2 or D3 or whatever. Something had to happen, but nothing happened and here we are.

[@delta_1632]

@@SilverShot114 I know, but money still had to go from bungie to another studio to fund their involvement. It's just such a shame the management made one greedy decision after the other, when the devs working there were some of the most talented in the industry. The little but still great content we're getting in dungeons and exotic missions or even final shape which personally has become my favourite expansion proves that.

[@shawneth3592]

I left during Shadowkeep. By then the idea of sunsetting my vault and the seasonal treadmill model made me feel like the time investment was no longer worth it

[@gblankster]

Agreed. I had weapons I truly loved. Bungie either nerfed it or sunset it.

[@NewTooWho]

@@gblankster and then they brought sunset weapons back, after players had deleted them.

[@Radiance..]

"No New game can show up and immediately beat the existing live services" meanwhile Marvel rivals showed up out of essentially no where for the majority of audiences and has been completely knocking out of the water since

[@peacechan4500]

I genuinely think they can do it because they got molded in the Chinese gacha industry. An industry that one massive fuck up would end your company under in 3 days. And the competition is so cutthroat that one fuck up can be exploited by competitors and would lose you millions

[@membranealpha5961]

@@peacechan4500 china also as a result of their governments obsession with control has way stricter laws on what you can get away with as a gaming company. some of those laws at least for gaming where actually good for the consumer.

[@LaLloronaVT]

If anything it gives me hope for something that will be a solid replacement for Destiny, I genuinely never thought we’d get a good alternative to overwatch but marvel rivals is actually fucking fun, I despise hero shooters but I’ll gladly play rivals with my friends

[@Syrock1]

Marvel Rivals is what happens when a based non-agenda pushing game comes along that is true to the source material, especially art wise. It's a nice game to look at. Anyone who wants a comparison put it side by side with what concord was, and you'll understand.

[@advbassdrop3956]

The reason marvel rivals won out is because blizzard has systematically sabotaged there product that was holding the majority market since ow2 started

[@ForeverLaxx]

It says a lot about Destiny 2 when its best expansion, Forsaken, wasn't even completed by Bungie. It had to be shipped out to Vicarious Visions and another studio I forget the name of in order to be completed, polished, and shipped on time. This is indicative of a game studio that has no passion, drive, or desire to live up to the expectations they themselves set. This was the beginning of the end of Destiny.

[@highfivemistertorque4537]

Blue moon studio

[@NN010]

High Moon Studios is the other studio that had to help Bungie get Forsaken out on time.

[@Jet-ij9zc]

And arguably the best expansion for D1 (rise of iron) was made by a very, very small team left to do whatever they want while the bulk of the studio was focused on making D2 (which players mostly hated at launch)

[@analori4723]

I hate that Justin guy - this is also a great video. I'm a D1 Vet who quit D2 in mid 2021, and even back then, I could see the grind machine D2 was turning out to be. My D1 character was done, and I feel really satisfied with how I ended that chapter of my life, but it felt inexplicably tiring and dull to play D2 and do all of its "chores", which is kinda funny, I thought of the same term back then. Amazing video, you just gained a new sub here. Cheers!

[@lobes117]

Going from “we make games we want to play” to “we create worlds that inspire friendship” is such a massive downgrade lmfao Still can’t believe they got rid of Michael Salvatori lol dude was literally the last bungo OG

[@doyker]

He's not the last of the old Bungie. The game director of destiny is an og Bungie dev. Bungie went downhill when the old school developers let the young activists run amok. Woke writing is destroying AAA gaming and Light fall and some of the subsequent seasons are peak woke garbage.

[@dimshds]

the "game bad because woke !" argument is destroying gaming

[@baller302]

​@@dimshdstrue, also destroying brain cells

[@Prezboy98]

@@dimshdshow is that of all things destroying gaming? Seems to be one of the few notable correlations of the quality of games and itself

[@dimshds]

@@Prezboy98 if a game comes out and it's incredibly buggy to the point where it's unplayable and also "woke" , which if these two reasons is actively ruining people's enjoyment of the game? Also the correct criticism for that game would be "this game is woke, don't play it!!" , or "this game is a buggy mess of shit,don't play it"? Anti woke is literally a mind virus that prevents you from seeing the world through a logical and normal lens, and also prevents you from giving good criticism.

[@frankharper3512]

Imagine walking into work and telling your boss you only give 60% effort because If you give 100% effort then you would expect to much of me... what im getting at is there's nothing wrong with not being at 100% all the time but if you are that lazy to the point you can't at minimum give anywhere between 85-100% effort into something that you are supposed to be passionate about then maybe you need to find a new career ffs.

[@BalthasarGelt-x2d]

You shouldn’t tell your boss that, but if you take on more, more will be expected of you.

[@therealmarce440]

@@BalthasarGelt-x2dFrFr. Gave 150% in my first job for the 3 years of apprenticeship.. as soon as I realized that I’m the only one working that hard In the company and dropped to their level of effort ( around 50% compared to what I did in a day before) I got called out for being unmotivated from my boss.. Never will I ever waste my energy for a 9-5 like this again.

[@RH1812]

Technically, giving 100% = exhaustion. 85% is optimal

[@ussliberty109]

With most employers, your reward for being a dependable workhorse is more work.

[@ericmcmanus5179]

4:10 Notice how the only thing the audience applauded was when Sven talked about developers treating employees badly. None of them cared about anything that was focused on good quality, customer focused production, or anything like that. Its just "me, me, me" in that industry. Thus they will never change.

[@sharcblazer99]

"Removed all the microtransations from all of our releases-" Boi, as long as eververse has existed it has been a cash grab.

[@hawaiianmango4556]

Funny how that damn store has never had any issues of not loading up. The long waits in space is by design…

[@sharcblazer99]

@hawaiianmango4556 It's weird. Did you try delivering cookies to tess? It opens the fuckin eververse shop every time you deliver one single cookie during the dawning. I baked 200 cookies for her.

[@embelished_meister500]

Bungie’s fall from grace was completely avoidable if it wasn’t for the greedy, grubby and money hungry executives thinking only about dollar signs and not players. God, I regret investing so much time, money and love into this game.

[@byrongrimsley500]

Y? Why do regret investing time money and love? How is what destiny executives doing now preventing you from this?

[@embelished_meister500]

@ It’s the executives that made the bad decisions that has lead to where destiny is right now, stagnant and directionless. As for why I regret investing so much time and money into Destiny, if I knew that the Golden Goose of a franchise that is Destiny was gonna be treated the way it has been for the past 3-4 years, I would’ve jumped ship when Destiny 2 was announced.

[@deeman.0151]

@@embelished_meister500don’t put all the blame on the executives, certain teams of devs aren’t exactly doing the best job either. have you seen some of the balancing changes they do? the sandbox devs hurt the game too just not as much as the money hungry suits do.

[@ManReallyyoudidthat1509]

@@deeman.0151 I assume you never ever was on a game dev team, because they still need to answer for the executives Everything, from cosmetics to balancing, needs to pass over the big heads, and they decide if is worth or not. A lot of nerfs are just to create content for youtubers to scream about, and then 2 or 1 season after they give something a giant buff. All of this is just thing to create animosity between players, even BL3 did that

[@alderaancrumbs6260]

It’s the devs, too. Not all if them, but enough.

[@TexasPoonTapa]

I've played Destiny since the Destiny 1 BETA and LOVED the game. It's sad to see the state the game is now. I'll always cherish my time with my friends I played with on there.

[@Jet-d3k]

Come play it again. The water is still warm

[@hazedknife]

I don’t regret playing destiny 2 because of all the fun and memories i had playing with my friend talking about lore and how to get loot, but its crazy they said we try not to over deliver 😭

[@greatmatt301]

It makes sense they don't want to over deliver. You are eventually going to drop a stinker expansion and hurt your reputation. The thing they don't understand is if you are making the community happy, they will understand and accept the bad update. There are long running games that understand this, why Bungie doesn't will forever be a mystery.

[@hazedknife]

@@greatmatt301 fr

[@jimmysuros6302]

For the desire of money is the root of all evils; which some coveting have erred from their faith and have entangled themselves in many sorrows. 1 Timothy 6 :10 DRV

[@AkaRystik]

Ok so the part where I started to get mad was where he started talking about the dangers of "over delivery". Such absolute top tier bullshitting. Over delivery is not and has never been a problem. Players wouldn't mind if the next expansion had one raid instead of two on launch if the quality was worth it, and that is the issue, they reduce the amount of content released and what content they did release was of lower quality. Pretending the core issue there is "over delivery" is inane. Bungie deserves to go out of business, they are so out of touch.

[@zlimydonut1573]

Not out of business, i play destiny 1 every day and if they went completely bankrupt and out of business all servers would be shut down

[@indianajim]

He tries SO HARD to justify shitty gaming experiences! These people are so tone deaf! Box Product model >>>> Live Service. The music at the moment he says, “Even more important than quality…” was a perfect edit.

[@Hosk17]

The worst part of the velocity argument, is that they dont even do any of what hes talking about. Unbalanced Metas last years, takes years for them to address any community concerns, along with gaslightings

[@thestellarvoid7077]

For real. Tbh, the whole presentation at the conference was gaslighting. Bungie knows live service games are volatile, and yet they are praising themselves as if they found the secret to greatness and paychecks. Wouldn't be surprised if they were using the presentation as a way to hire people for Lightfall and steal profit from would-be competition. Then they fired everyone. And any company that adopted Bungie's tactics failed following the conference because, live service at it's core just doesn't work the way Bungie explained it.

[@Familiar2086]

​@@thestellarvoid7077the presentation comes off as gaslighted because bungie needed money and saw the opportunity to pull on over other companies dumb enough to listen and not observe. The train car argument was derailed shortly after with things like 30th and ITL, overdelivery was squashed with a new race and prismatic (recently) that no one expected because we thought they wouldn't overdeliver. Love, hate and apathy aparrently don't matter when content is good like the final shape. Numbers dipped hard and people checked out with lightfall but somehow these apathetic people suddenly cared again. I doubt they care about numbers being low rn because the game made it the 10 years that most people thought wouldn't happen based off the hate it gets. Much like the 3 billion check from Sony, it really looks like everything bungie did the last couple years was an effort to guarantee themselves a situation where they can't be removed from the industry because of how much was spent acquiring them. Does anyone think that bungie just always wanted to release multiple games from each genre most popular at the time?

[@prawnk1ng]

I’m submitting this for MOTW. 😂

[@itztizzle]

@@prawnk1ng haha love it!!

[@stevem.9340]

You should give him credit so you don't you have to steal shit for your ass.

[@hahaureadmyname]

@@stevem.9340 moron

[@prawnk1ng]

@@stevem.9340settle down mate. It’s a joke… But in all fairness this video needs as much attention as possible.

[@baalhighpriestsaban2106]

I still get depressed that the days of D1 are gone. I remember the good old raid’s the solo bridge encounter, all the wall glitches. Just great memories with great people all just trying to have a good time.

[@MythoFoxical]

"You're building a train station, not a train." …What? The company is the train station/stations. The game is the train, the thing that the people going to the train station are even there for. Your rivals are the bus stops, car shops, and even bike shops. If your train cannot take the people that ride it to work in a safer, more efficient manner than a bus, car, or bike, people will simply take those methods of transportation instead. You can have a freaking opera house in your train station, but that isn't what people go to a train station for. A concession stand doesn't make the train with cobwebs and a missing wheel look like a reliable way to get to your destination. Work on the train/trains and make sure you can afford the maintenance costs of each train, because that is why people are there in the first place.

[@grimtarot]

He's talking about the difference between long-termism (Trainstation's) and short-termism (Train's).

[@karmainstant1954]

As I'm listening to the GDC talk, my mood is getting lower and lower with how he treats Destiny 2. I kinda feel disgusted with management.

[@justinoliveira3063]

I actually think Justin’s train station metaphor perfectly encapsulates Bungie, but for the wrong reasons. They have 50 trains operating at once, but no one to actually to switch the tracks, so they’re all crashing into each other.

[@EngineeeeerGaming]

I still think their major problem was using Destiny's revenue to fund other games. Like think of all the great stuff we could have had if they had focused more. But they basically flushed that money since only 1 or 2 of like 5 new games will actually see release. If you have something great, keep investing in it. Every major disappointment has lasting effects. The Final Shape rocked. But following it a week later with Echoes is a colossal fumble and they just keep fumbling.

[@macy1066]

That means developers can only develop one game. Or are you suggesting sending the money to the shareholders, and then they send the money back to another developer with their profit tax on it?

[@EngineeeeerGaming]

@macy1066 it would have been fine to make one game or two on the side but like five? Players could feel when resources got diverted. PvP was abandoned for like a straight year.

[@itztizzle]

def agree that you can feel the lack of resources going to destiny. I address this later in the video. You could argue Halo had to die to get Destiny. So it is definitely a doubled-edged sword

[@thejusmar]

@@macy1066 That's the bind of a live service game. It is always in development and always requiring funding. There is no traditional final point where a studio can just lean back and extract nothing but profit from the game and go invest elsewhere.

[@pdh9627]

I see wat you mean. It's kinda like how Rockstar only focuses on gta and red dead.

[@lanycera]

The wild thing is, me migrating to Warframe has actually made me realise how BAD and repetitive the Destiny 2 experience was and how little Bungie cares. Sure, Warframe is a different game and has it's own issues like every game and I do miss the raids and beautiful art team, but the developers care about their players. They are passionate and take feedback, they interact with the community and play their own game with them, they implement fun bugs people find, every single piece of content was more innovative and better than before - including the latest one, 1999. Not just that, but the storytelling is simply better, voice acting miles above and all characters more fleshed out. You really do realise how much Bungie has underdelivered.

[@g40x91]

Destiny 2 doesn't feel 7 years old. Warframe does feel 11 years old. Warframe has both depth and a lot content. Destiny has neither. You can't tell that D2 is 7 years old because they keep deleting all the content.

[@Joemama-xw2wy]

@@g40x91 I’d honestly argue the opposite. Warframe doesn’t feel 11 years old because the engine is ever evolving and continuously being updated, fixed and improved upon. Destiny however does feel its age. You can tell some models are continuously reused, how jank the game feels at times. The tiger engine was going to be overhauled but that project was canned. The spaghetti code of destiny is so bad that REMOVED content is not even removed! Most of it is just out of bounds because fully removing it would break portions of the game. That is why Destiny seems to bloat back up to nearly 100gb despite vaulting so much content.

[@camper5579]

I remember playing warframe back in the day and i felt like new players feel in destiny 2 now. Insane grind to get anything cool but the gameplay is so fun i couldnt stop playing. Until i did and then just didnt go back.

[@DjLuCKyCHaRM]

Warframe is sadly not Destiny. I played 300+ hours Warframe but I liked the Destiny gameplay feel a lot more.

[@davidmorales7371]

I've been saying this for years but the D2 community is a fuckin cult. But even those fall apart after enough time. D2 is insanely overrated.

[@mudalaca01]

that's exactly why i quit destiny 2 and gave up on it, they weaponised FOMO and it became chores, not something you do for fun

[@BananenJaeger]

"Deliver Blueprints that you can repeat" is my biggest problem with AAA game development at the moment. They are looking for patterns that they can easily duplicate and scale. So they do not have to put in thought or effort or creativity. So they can sell you the same product with a different coat of paint, again and again. And so most modern AAA games feel the same, play the same and are the same stale, uninteresting, boring crap.

[@adam5599]

well said

[@littlejohn-pi7kk]

Bungie are known for being the King of reskins, remake, reuse, reboot, remove and return.

[@MyNameIsJaxon]

Bungie uses this formula for every content drop: Enemy health and damage increase + player damage and build options decrease = a massively fun experience that everyone will enjoy!

[@coasterplay1062]

Thats how all games do it to increase difficulty and there is nothing wrong about it. But of course Destiny is the evil one again. The Problem is not Destiny here but its highly incompetent and whiny Community (not all of course).

[@fegostoso]

@@coasterplay1062 in Kell's Vengeance my squad was obliterated 4 times in a row because the debuff, the most important element of the entire encounter's mechanics, constantly duplicates itself affecting two players at the same time or doesn't reset the timer when you collect the mote or kill you during the damage phase. But of course, it's my fault for complaining and wanting something nice.

[@coasterplay1062]

@@fegostoso what does that have to do with the topic ?

[@fegostoso]

@ my point is that the problem is not purely the community being demanding. How can the community be too demanding if not even the basics are being delivered?

[@coasterplay1062]

@@fegostoso I don’t know what you want from me sorry. I argued about the Community whining about difficult. You are talking about bugs so i don’t get what we are discussing.

[@dixon137]

Personally the slight shift in theme from 1 to 2 and the story events really killed my drive to play.. Seeing the devs insert themselves into plot points disgusted me after I just spend 5 years playing the game.. Its somthing they can't take back I no longer trust bungie at all.. Atleast we still have D1 I really prefer the setting where tech is the focus with magic being rare but strong.. Go watch the original D1 gameplay reveal with the idea that it's a full open world survival game

[@Brickman430]

Its so poetic that Destiny lost to Warframe. Go take a look at steam charts and see how Warframe has kept a 60-70k playerbase for years. But it only took Destiny a few slip ups for all that to crumble. Warframe also barely lost numbers when D2 expacs came out too. Bungie is in real danger of actually dissapearing for good if Marathon doesnt come out this year and it's almost a guarantee that it will get concord'd. The game has no vision and no future lol. Sad

[@seanfox4551]

Warframe should be a wake up call as to how to treat your customers.

[@ickmonster73]

Just moved to warframe. I'm 40 hours in and having a blast. I'm looking up how to get the frames i want, and I'm still playing ancient content. There is so much more to look forward to, and yet i don't constantly feel like i need to catch up.

[@JonnyAnon]

Warframe let's you trade things too. I don't know how many multiples of Raid and Dungeon exotics I've trashed because I ended up with multiples.

[@camper5579]

Bungie gonna be in trouble if marathon doesnt take off. Its propably going to get a completely new playerbase since its a different genre but im not sure how many destiny players want to play an extraction shooter. I know i dont. Not anymore.

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

The only real problem (even then it's hard to call it a problem at all) is how overwhelming Warframe can be at the start. Since every bit of content that has been added still exists, that means there's a lot of stuff to do, making the ideal storyline progression path hard to follow (at least in my experience.)

[@shadyrebob5999]

Everything with Bungie turned into a cash grab. Monetize all the best parts and leave evergreen content to rot. Lightfall was the beginning of the end.

[@Jewsliketoeatpizza]

@@shadyrebob5999 evergreen?

[@verios44]

Nah. Lightfall was just the poured accelerant on the flammable framework of D2. It began way before that. Arguably, the decline began the moment they sunset half the game in Beyond Light. Witch Queen also had a unintended side effect, crafting which still to this day has broken the economy. It was their best and worst decision of that expansion. Lightfall just accelerated all the problems to 10x speed

[@Austin-l1j]

@@verios44exactly beyond light was terrible and yes I mean terrible.

[@gamingandchill4186]

I agree mostly, but you say the “end” was lightfall, which is well after the fall of Destiny 2 was started. It was honestly when Shadowkeep launched, when Bungie did their first solo DLC which just so happened to mostly incorporate re-used assets with no new methodology for majority of the expansion’s content, and used rather lazily at that. This is when the “oops, all reused assets” ideology began. -Reusing content or features works when done right, such as Menagerie. The activity effectively pitted 6 randoms against a single but straight forward raid-like mechanic, with a loot system that we could hand pick the gear you wanted (still had to roll the dice for perks, but the activity was enjoyable and unique, so it wasn’t a problem)

[@Hosk17]

The worst part is that the vast majority of that money never went back into destiny

[@westisnt]

Live service is the new MMO, the iceberg that studios keep steering their ship into even with all evidence pointing to it being a bad idea.

[@hey_its_travis]

It really is something how they were able to completely kill the hype and vibe of this game so dramatically. Hopefully, that short-term payout was worth all the money they threw away in hopes of a payday down the road.

[@cooper2211]

When they announced content would be vaulted and that GDC was released my jaw dropped at the absurdity of what bungie has proposed then and there it was the beginning of the end a slow burn knowing that the game would never be the same and hearing it again only makes my blood boil. Yet what truly astounded me was the sheer volume of people supporting said decisions either denying the shift in philosophy means more stuff to do or outright denouncing others saying just leave the game isnt for you anymore. I only continued to play because of my clan mates yet now they dont even log on anymore. Heck i went back to ff14 & Warframe even delving into other older titles like the god eater series. Playing completed games not butcheted by the incessant desire to make profit. Its truly sad to see the gaming industry embrace this design.

[@greatmatt301]

As someone who was thinking of giving D2 a try around that time after a few thousand hours in another, i immediately drop that idea after hearing that. You are telling me you will take out content i have paid for? NOPE.

[@THE_POTATO-]

"Content is too hard to make," that was their reason for sunsetting WHAT THE HECK AM I PAYING YOU FOR was my reaction at that time.

[@DarthSoto78]

I stopped playing when they removed DLC I paid for. I played all the way from D1 to that point.

[@BrokeandFamousPR]

The teleporting ads is what bothers me the most specially in GM's. In normal strikes or in vangard ops I dont see any teleporting ads. Bungie thinks that by making ads teleport somehow would make the game more challenging. Its just lazy and annoying, not fun at all. I dont understand what is their end goal with the game but clearly is in a bad state.

[@karlos1008]

Wait the tping ads are a feature? I thought it was just a bug? Annoying as shit

[@chromefox4]

7:20 “we went from making games we want to play to making a story game. Except we don’t know how to make a good story”. Weapon crafting not being ada-1 thing, Amanda holiday, Zavala, iron banner dude and so many other characters being wasted for no reason. It’s not just the gameplay that went downhill. Look at the forsaken story vs final shape story it’s such a massive gap

[@headphonesaxolotl]

Tbf Witch Queen had a pretty good story

[@RomeoEchoDelta]

Hadn't seen Justin's speech before. If I had, I never would have bought anything Bungie had made afterward. I had only ever seen the "don't over deliver" line in what I thought was an internal document. Congratulations, Justin. I actually do want this game to fail now Marathon as well. Because any amount of success will just reinforce such a back assward design philosophy. Any devs who read this comment. Fucking bail, Bungie is making you worse at your craft. The dude admitted to it outright. Your talent is wasted there.

[@scottdesemberer8751]

Best indicator of how bad Destiny situation is, for me is that I personally saw like five or six full time Destiny 2 youtubers get it to Warframe recently.

[@conjonsilver_]

I wish these companies would focus on making a fully functioning, complete game with a clear identity. They need to take a From Software approach of "we're making our game with our vision and you can play it if you like it and because it is a good fully functioning game that people have put time and effort in to make it well. Someone get that mindset in the exec's heads and make a game the devs want to make and can make it properly with your support.

[@itztizzle]

totally agree. Wish more games just launched as complete games

[@stevem.9340]

You should seriously look more at the Kingdom Hearts games and less of the from Software games because the Souls likes are getting oversaturated

[@brandonwright1377]

​@stevem.9340 hope you're excluding 3 from that because that was awful

[@stevem.9340]

3 is not a shit game.

[@brandonwright1377]

@stevem.9340 it definitely ain't close to the first 2 that's for sure.

[@GozMaster]

Great video. I too am a content creator but in a very tiny game... and you raised so many great questions on game deving as a whole... my game is in a similar state of Flux, losing long term players, but the core of ours is a combination of lack of communication and micro changes to the F2P community that is impacting new players and vets alike. appreciate the passion and love you clearly have for your game and the deep dive into game development as a whole. bravo.

[@badguy83]

17:45 this is how I’m feeling lately. It’s sad that I log in Tuesdays just to see nothing with the weekly “update” and log off for the week.

[@Pretralus]

They could simply do fun stuff like infinite mg ammo in PVE activities or just wacky stuff to benefit players especially now when the players are dropping.

[@badguy83]

@ I thought about that also. Like maybe a week where you can equip two exotic weapons and two exotic armor pieces.

[@PrJásper]

@@badguy83I had this thought to myself too, like imagine witherhoard and anarchy, Polaris/DB, like man 😢

[@prawnk1ng]

I quit just after final shape got delayed. Best decision of my life.

[@srpaodealho3108]

Bought d1 the collection and i do not regret

[@NicholasBalanta]

Interesting video that just popped up on my feed, you earned a like. I tried D2 when it went free to play realised the FOMO/Seasonal thing and dipped. Making a seasonal game that retains players is hard. I couldn't help but notice that you didn't mention Path of Exile, different genre but they successfully ran a free to play seasonal live service game for 10 years(so far). The structure came from a suggestion made by a streamer. As a new player you jump in, spend two hours and fail, look up some online resources on builds and gearing, keep the spreadsheet handy and play the game. How they retain their players is very interesting. Each season (or league as they call them) lasts 3-4 months, rebalances the game, introduces their new league mechanic (that is fully free and available to all from the start) and the players have to figure out how they beat this new iteration of the game. Any class can do almost anything. There is hardly any hand holding or dumbing down encounters, you suck make a new build and try again. My first 3 attempts, made it 2-4 hours in blind. 4th attempt looked up a guide, played for 60 hours, had fun and was only halfway through the campaign (IRL stuff had to be done). The developers in any interview or interaction show that they enjoy their game, they want players to find some super OP new build or cool interaction. Each league is judged on it's own merit. Some league mechanics that feedback showed players liked stick around (Heist and Delve come to mind). They don't present their game as something for everyone but as "if you find this thing fun, maybe you like our game". Monetisation and MTX are not particularly aggressive, most players spend some money on a bigger bank to store loot, no pay to win. They released early access for Path of Exile 2, but said they are keeping support and new leagues for PoE 1. All your real money purchases from PoE 1 carry over into PoE 2, the supporter cosmetics for early access to PoE 2 can be used in PoE 1. You get the cash shop equivalent of what you spent on an early access bundle (eg. $30 early access= 300 cash shop coins) usable in either game. Grinding Gear Games just cashed in on some player trust saying they are delaying the new PoE league because they are tring to fix PoE2. The studio head making the announcement looked genuinely sad, and disappointed. If a studio of 150 people in New Zealand can make a live service like this what are AAA studios doing?

[@sharkbiteacturus7241]

It's really a shame that the CEO or execs don't care for this game. It really hurts when you think that the people who work on this game love it as much as us. They don't want to see it die neither, I don't want it to die and so does everyone else who plays this game. Let's just hope that the game survives this and "learns" from it. I guess we will see.

[@itztizzle]

@@sharkbiteacturus7241 yes it’s very sad. They have passionate workers and a passionate fan base and are throwing it away for short term quarterly profits

[@jaytechnosaur]

They key is to hire passionate CEOs and Execs who are gamers themselves and who believe in listening to their community.

[@wesleygibson367]

Kreia said it best "Apathy is death." Ironic how Bungie basically agreed with this sentiment, and then preceded to push the fanbase to this very point in less than a year after The Final Shape. If Bungie actually tried to do new things, to innovate in any meaningful way, even if that innovation kinda sucked it would show us that they cared, but all we got instead were stretched out seasons rebranded as "Episodes."

[@theraven9107]

My favorite part about them making the stretched out episodes is that literally every time Bungie wound up with a super long season in the past, players got tired of it by like the halfway point of the season and player numbers would drop a bit since people were just waiting for the next actual content to show up. Bungie saw this, and decided to base their content model after the long seasons that people would get bored of, then also made the seasonal content boring too so that people would quit even faster. Truly they saw all of the failed "Destiny Killers" and said "Fine, I'll do it myself".

[@Familiar2086]

​@@theraven9107apathy is death but people come back for good content.

[@GodChaos333]

"Launch is not the end of your journey" Concord lasts less then 2 weeks. Yeah sure.

[@itztizzle]

haha for real

[@baller302]

As good as TGA speech was, unless you are oblivious, everyone knows and agrees everything Sven said. The people driving the industry to the ground do not.

[@TheManOfTheHourEveryHour]

I keep rewatching 4:12 - 4:16 to see who in the audience ISN'T clapping 😂😂😂 couple of them bros look hella salty 😂😂😂

[@rolotomassi9226]

@@TheManOfTheHourEveryHour The man should’ve been given a standing ovation instead of the light sprinkling of applause he received.

[@peacechan4500]

There's a reason why a lot of gambling Sim in the name of gacha has been dominating live services games even in the west. Because they do what he preaches.

[@Tony-hw1cv]

I feel like one of the biggest manipulation they’ve added is the damn power level grind. And I don’t think they removed red borders for the joy of random drops, they did it to extend the grind and keep player logged in

[@theshellderinslowbrostail5422]

And even then they fumbled cuz its because of no Red Borders why i havent played since

[@championredd]

U don’t have to grind power anymore 💀

[@_-Tom-_]

@@championreddevery season you do now again

[@championredd]

@ not really you get brought up to the highest light lvl person in your team

[@Tony-hw1cv]

@@championredd they reinstated the 10 level increase

[@PunchClock]

This is a great video. I've been out of D2 since 2022 obviously, since the sunset. I've posted comments on many content creators videos over the past few years since having left. So instead of typing out a essay yet again, like I've done multiple times in the past, I'll keep it short. I'll never come back unless they figure out a way to hit the rewind button and allow us to come back and follow the story line from Forsaken onward. I miss looking up content on YT helping me through a tough spot. I miss hoping on and then texting the 4-5 other family members to hope on so we can do this or that. I also noticed Byf has commented on your video as well and I just want to say I was a very avid follower of your channel until the sunsetting took place and I'm sorry my friend, although I do miss listening to your content and looked forward to your videos on a regular basis, just know it wasn't you it was the what Bungie did to us that made you obsolete for me. This company rob the community of casual players (like myself) in the beginning before the release of Forsaken but ultimately becoming more and more hardcore playing after the release of Forsaken, of ever coming back due to all that has been missed out on. It was bad enough they time gated the content which could have been remedied at some point with good business decisions, to ultimately take back content players paid their sometimes hard earned money for. Again thanks for the video but I think I'll just stand over here on land and watch as the ship goes to the bottom.

[@obscuraffliction6272]

Funny to that he talked about how critical it is to make sure the content train makes its way out on time. Yet since that conference they’ve had to delay dlc, seasons, episodes constantly.

[@ThePackman627]

So this kind of applies to the battlefield franchise. We used to get games like battlefield 4, and battlefield 1, where you would get good pieces of content every couple months. Then with battlefield 5 and onwards, they switch to live service and they never made the same amount of content because it was done for "free", And it just hasn't been the same since. And I definitely agree with all of your points, the one thing I feel like is missing from Destiny is in some previous expansions, like taken King, rise of iron, forsaken, it used to change the entire game because we got a ton of loot. Entire systems were changed, etc etc. But now with expansions, we get the same number of weapons for each playlist, as we would with the season, we don't get a huge influx of new loot in expansions. It just feels like a "bigger" season, rather than feeling more like a new game

[@PoorPeazant]

48:37 "it is a game designed to keep you on a treadmill of perpetual mediocrity" Unvarnished truth

[@itztizzle]

I liked that line :)

[@nephilimfto3548]

So sad that D2 replaced D1. Their change in studio moto explains it all :/

[@DusterMeatRider]

finally someone talked about this laughable gdc talk, its so out of touch

[@Dustin_Studios]

Its nice to see another channel on here who don't care about the algorithm, views and such. Just making content you like to make and hoping others enjoy it because you put your passion in to the videos you make. I've been on the Destiny Treadmill since House of Wolves but I quit after Echoes because as you said in your video its all the same shit, nothing new and nothing unexpected. It just feels like they make content don't care about what it is anymore. I would rather them make expansions and no seasons if that means we get more innovation and different stuff in the expansion but they only care about getting content out as fast as possible not even caring if it works (looking at the Tonics that didn't work in Revenant because were play tested). I have since moved on to other games and been enjoying more time to myself. I don't think I will go back to any live service game in the future.

[@dimshds]

Capitalist GREED is runing our hobby

[@itztizzle]

@@dimshds indeed it is

[@ShutchyerLips]

Just like it ruins everything

[@Ahhsenberg]

No. People who have invaded gaming over the last 14 years who keep on buying slop and making excuses for corporations are what's killing gaming. You morons who have stuck with this franchise after all these years of them ignoring feedback and telling you how you should be playing Destiny only have yourselves to blame with how it turned out.

[@ShutchyerLips]

@@Ahhsenberg nah, wow is older than that

[@anversailles]

Bungie actively telling devs to shelf their ideas for improving the game to not “overdeliver” is insane. Destiny 2 is an immensely fun game and I spent a thousand hours on it, but the problems that plague it remain. Lack of content, PvP hitreg sucking ass because of no dedicated servers, FOMO, etc.

[@enzudesign]

Over 12000 hrs in Destiny playing since Alpha testing, it's been heartbreaking as a gamer to watch how awful things have gotten. For me the final straw was when Eververse took over, we saw less and less free in game armour, weapons, items etc to earn, less things to chase, all the creativity and thought was only going into pay to win battle pass and the Eververse store items. For me that was it, I quit playing, I didn't feel respected as a long term player what so ever 😞

[@Kuhmodo]

Mannnnn I coped so hard I made a concept for D3 in my head. Didn't write anything down just kind thinking up stuff in my head: D3 takes place 100 years after Frontiers. A new bigger and more promising golden age has taken place, and the Traveler has extended it's light to the remaining Fallen and Cabal on Earth. The Last City has been renamed to 'The Foundation' as it is no longer the last city, and Earth has begun to repopulate with bigger cities, more technology advancement, and a true stride has taken place in armory, weaponry, classes, subclasses, and everyday living for the people. The Cabal, Fallen, and Mankind live in harmony, and have put their differences aside to make Earth a place for anyone supporting the light. The remnants of the Witness have tried mini incursions, but have basically been wiped out of the Sol system. Savathun's Throne world has remained her own, and is considered a no go zone unless discussed and approved with the Vanguard. One day the Traveler begins forming what looks like a second sun in the sky, but smaller and silver in color. This 'sun then begins to disperse and cover the entire planet in a thin glowing layer that can be seen at night resembling a silver Aurora Borealis. The Vanguard receive a signal from the Traveler that was translated into one word: 'Farewell.' The Traveler, at a very fast movement leaves Earth and the entire solar system. The light that it left behind was a self sustaining light that could create ghosts, and self sustaining light in it's absence. D3's plot is us, the guardian, leaving the solar system in search of finding the Traveler, discovering why it left, and tracking it down outside of Sol. D3 will be a FPS and equally an exploration game. There will be dungeons, caves, temples, etc. With brand new hostiles, powers, and weapons to discover. There will be engram vendors to find sprinkled throughout space, but your main form of finding weapons will be crafting them from materials that you find from different sources. Also, your D2 vault can be transferred over and there will be up to 1000 slots. You can gain more vault space by paying for it either with an in game currency or silver. When you load up the game, you can select up to 7 characters - Hunter, Titan, Warlock, Psion, Phalanx, Vandal, or Captain. You'll visit new planets, build outposts on them, explore cave systems, find clues for the travelers, find ancient darkness and light abilities. You'll have dog fights in space from planet to planet, customize, your ship internally, and externally, and they ACTUALLY matter. You can have fast fighter ships, slower freighters, or anything in between. Because of this, there is trading in the game, and open PVP areas as well as safe havens on planets. As far as enemies go, there will be three types that you can see: Hostile wildlife on alien planets, factions (similar to D1 and D2 like Vex, Cabal, Hive, etc.), and PVP in open environments (which is an optional setting that can be turned off.) New factions such as The Remnants (Remnants are species of the Witness' race that have begun to manifest out of dormant pyramids. The Egregore - a darkness race that has manifested out of alien sporous fungus and plant life who are attracted to your bases and attempt to destroy them. The Enlightened - A hostile faction who have formed a galactic government that collect and govern other Travelers, and judge who is and who isn't worthy of the light (will be one of the bigger antagonists of the story as they look down on us saying we use the light for destruction more than order. Dread will be repurposed to follow the command of Nezarec, and through this they go through a transformation and be come the Nightmare race. Only thought of one exotic which is for hunters called 'Stick-EE5.' Boots that turn your dodge into a 15 second perk that allows you to run, walk, and stand on walls and ceilings. *I thought about more stuff, but this is enough random shit posting that'll go no where lol*

[@stormtroop3016]

This is all me and my friends do nowadays in regards to destiny. Instead of play it, we come up with ideas and play through them in our minds, because we’re at a point where that’s far more enjoyable than the game itself… new holiday events, new game modes, new activities, new weapons/armor etc. all these crazy plot twists for narrative points as well. It’s a shame to think that bungie has people hired right now that are doing the exact same thing, but are being told “no”.

[@RickDomII]

This shit sounds awesome tbh 🙏

[@spiderz5898]

....... I really want this so bad.

[@thewizard1]

✍️🔥🔥🔥

[@Soul_9536]

I want this to be a thing so bad

[@red-qx4no]

I used to be a dedicated sherpa, it was my favorite part of the game. Now I have trouble finding new people to sherpa through the raids that I love so much. I'm just sad... I don't even have the newest dungeon exotic because I have barely played since its release. I desperately hope that destiny can get back on its feet, but it really does feel different this time.

[@itztizzle]

love hearing from hardcores and sherpas like you. It really does feel different this time around

[@wolfcoma]

Always looking for good sherpas. You on ps?

[@red-qx4no]

@@wolfcoma PC, but if you don't mind using discord on PS, I'd be down to help. What do you wan to learn?

[@RealItsFrostyIce]

​@@red-qx4noI'm interested if you're willing! I've been really wanting to learn RoN, SE, Votd, or warlord ruins!

[@LumiNexus]

I've gone back to D1 and have been having a lot of fun. Can be hard to find teams but there's a few people helping me and other D2 vets get back into it

[@derekslayton9895]

28:27 “More important even than quality, a live service is about being fast.” Bro that statement gives me second hand embarrassment. I had to pause the video I was cringing so hard 😢

[@segirly]

> squeezing and exhausting your existing players with fomo > removing your established story so new players never get to experience it like established players did the train station model has gutted the game and its reputation to change it into a battle pass factory. i haven't played since 2019, as i switched platforms shortly after forsaken came. i adored that expansion, and always wanted to come back to the game eventually. sunsetting just closed the door on that possibility for me, and i know im not alone in that. i'm currently new to FF14 with shit loads of story and gameplay ahead of me, because that game didn't sand off its edges to become a more efficient seasonal content machine. i loved D1 and what i played of D2, so it's just depressing knowing we all missed the chance to play a real, complete Destiny 2

[@beprf]

It's not just bungie or the gaming industry. It's the motivation that companies have, where all it matters is to increase revenue and profits. It doesn't matter if you have 100 million profit, if you had 120 million the previous quarter, that 100 million is seen as bad because it was less than before and they let go of people to maximize profits. It's inevitable that there's a ceiling to any single project, so companies decide to "diversify their portfolio", which for bungie was making other games, but that doesn't mean increased investment, it means using the same resources that they already have, so D2 was slowly left behind. They kept stretching the rope until it broke and now they're panicking and acting surprised.

[@YeahhDan]

Quite a few years ago, Bungie’s slogan used to be “We make games that we want to play”. I can’t remember if it was in an article or in a TWID, but here’s the quote from when it was changed, ““we make games **we** want to play” sounded a little too much like it was just gatekeeping for bald middle-aged white guys like me. But besides adopting a more global and inclusive view, this is really about a shift away from that ‘Box Product Mindset’ into the ‘Service Mindset’”. I remember reading it at the time and being dumbfounded by that response. Everything after was not surprising. Genuinely breaks my heart because they are still my favorite game studio. I’ve always wanted them to succeed and it sucks to not be excited about the future of Destiny anymore. I’m completely open to being excited about it again in the future, but they have to start making the game they want to play again and Sony needs to pony up so that the devs aren’t afraid of being laid off and trying to work under that pressure. The revenue will follow.

[@TheJcamp1771]

I think a lot of people look at destiny one with rose colored glasses. Rise of iron was a ok expansion but made the pvp experience terrible with the special ammo nerfs and the content in that expansion didn’t last long. I think people forget this. Ultimately when it comes to destiny 2 I still enjoy the game. And when I don’t I don’t play it. It’s a very simple thing. And it’s up to bungie to make the game important to the player. And their new expansion model clearly is a make or break thing for the game. And I’m ok with this. I’ll play it, and if it’s subpar then good bye. If it’s good I’ll keep playing

[@Kuhmodo]

I fired up my PS4 a couple weeks back to check out the 'Dawning Event' and see what I still had on D1. Man...... I do not miss 30 FPS, that uber limited vault space, lack of collections, etc. No thank you. Or the fact you can't even do half the game without having PS Plus. No thanks, big dawg lol. PS. You can't mantle, sprint had a cool down, no class abilities unless you have an exotic (So Hunters, you can't dodge unless you're on void and running Graviton Forfeit. Think about this lol)

[@TheJcamp1771]

@ exactly dude. All great points. Destiny 1 was fun, but nowhere near as good as d2

[@SpottedHares]

I think one thing that might be missed is that Rise of Iron lasted just long enough to make it to some actual good free content updates that helped allot. Also as some one that was actually their during D1 crucible the special ammo nerfs we’re very much appreciated as the game have developed into sniper lane hell up to that point and turned the game PVP into a one note slog.

[@Spurrrg]

Im proud to announce that today marks my 6 month anniversary of not giving Bungie money.

[@mr.gameandteach7197]

Anniversary means annual. Months don't count.

[@Spurrrg]

@@mr.gameandteach7197 "erm actually"

[@mr.gameandteach7197]

@@Spurrrg actually what? Anniversary=annual. Idk what is confusing

[@Spurrrg]

@@mr.gameandteach7197 dw I was just trolling if you didnt realize. Theres one thing I like more than shitting on modern Bungie and it is baiting smartasses who care too much about things that dont matter.

[@mr.gameandteach7197]

@Spurrrg the hilarity of the situation is you think you have the intellect to cause anyone to do anything, lol. You don't think annual means anniversary. You aren't worth the brain power. Ps, the toxic community he was talking about was you lmao

[@shotguunwolf9365]

I still whole heartedly believe sunsetting was the nail in the coffin for lots of players. It was such a gut punch for everything you worked AND PAID for. The money shot afterwards was the devs then doing a 180 and un-sunset everything a couple years later and tell everyone they couldn’t help you if you deleted sunset gear.

[@thetrllrt]

Launching a bad game is a scar on that game’s reputation that will never go away. There are still people that when I talk about No Man’s Sky they say “oh doesn’t that game suck though? It flopped pretty hard at launch.” And they have no idea the changes and continual free improvements that have made the game better. Even after hearing about it most kinda just shrug and say “eh they had their chance. I don’t really care how much improvement the game has seen.”

[@skintxisu]

1 hour trip to work tomorrow and you drop this. Love you

[@itztizzle]

haha that's perfect! Hope you enjoy! Not a ton of edits either, so it's a perfect listening video

[@skintxisu]

Loved every minute thanks for this​@@itztizzle

[@MrLusterFury]

I was a D1 enjoyer, Purchased all the DLC, did all the content and loved the PVP (not so much trials) and made many long time friends. The "sweaty" trials try harder's ruined the PVP and made D2 on launch a "boots on ground" game focused more on simplifying the game and removing as man wacky and fun things. Took years for the company to bounce back re-introducing lost mechanics like INT,DISP,STR builds not just trees, and shaders, random weapons ect. Now after so many years I've recently have gotten back into the game and am confused as all hell but love remembering all the supers and abilities with D1 being the first "hero ability shooter" that made a huge impact. So weird to come into the game in a time where it feels more like the product I once loved and see so much sentiment around "THE GAME IS DEAD". I attribute it to people just being justifiably burnt the hell out. Wish I could play all the old content but am excited to learn raids I never did and make builds all on my own.

[@Pretralus]

I feel like Destiny Rising was a wake up call to many players to why we can't get cooler and fun activities and gear. Hell we can't even get a quadruple loot week for the playerbase being low, I'd come back for that.

[@Juiceair77]

What killed Destiny 1. Sunsetting 2. Going Free to Play 3. No Anti-cheat for PVP 4.

[@srpaodealho3108]

Focus on eververse

[@NovasTelesto]

FOMO in general. Battlepasses shouldn't be time gated anymore

[@iRxyanDestinygtaandmoreL]

Fun police

[@ShutchyerLips]

Disagree with sunsetting, but agree with the other 2 for sure

[@lanycera]

There are way more elements to it, to be fair. It's not just these three things you are listed...there was a complete shift in the values and priorities, and many projects are and were funded by Destiny. Also you should say pseudo "free to play" not free to play like Warframe.

[@Dripperty]

Bungie has to be the worst example for any company in live-service gaming. They made a good game inside of a GREAT engine, and rode that success for 10 years.

[@alcozar5905]

Just wait till Marathon drops, you haven’t seen nothing yet.

[@imp4573]

They had to kill Cayde to retain/regain players, and THEN had to BRING HIM BACK FROM THE DEAD to, yet again, retain/regain players. Cayde was/is the embodiment of the wonder of being a guardian, and should be their northern star about what the fuck they should be doing FOR their players

[@lanycera]

Cayde was also realistically the only fleshed out, likeable character aside from maybe Zavala during Season of the Haunted. Playing warframe made me realise how hard D2 lacked in storytelling / writing / clever dialogues and relatable characters. Heck, DE even brought two amazing Baldurs Gate 3 voice actors in for their newest 1999 content drop - despite less resources than Bungie.

[@thediabolicalraisin8953]

And he was the only one with like, any noticeable personality. If they killed off Zavala, or hell, even Ikora, no one would've cared half as much.

[@Gjerda]

just finished watching and i wanted to say thank you so much for making this video, it’s all very well said and it really encapsulates how i feel as well. i left 2 years ago and am coming back now to catch up on what i missed, but i’m already missing the philosophy of these artists having the space to make their art without the pressures of corporations’ bottom line. i think the best moments of destiny, and most any game, have been when the developers are free to make their best art possible, and it breaks my heart to see it becoming a seasonal cash grab. i hope the future is brighter for this game we’ve all spent so much time on ❤️

[@itztizzle]

Glad you enjoyed it! I’ve always LOVED your videos. Just loved your style. Could tell you were making content out of passion and not chasing the algorithm. Also you were the first big creator to subscribe to me, and that meant a lot. Hope you’re doing well! Miss your vids ❤

[@Gjerda]

@@itztizzle Wow thank you so much dude, makes my day to hear that!

[@lucabissoli5479]

i think that the idea to fund other games while destiny was not the stable game that they thought was the worst that hey could think

[@frankjr.3916]

After a long 10 year journey it's definitely bittersweet. 8.5k hours later and lots of memories. I will miss destiny.

[@itztizzle]

i feel the same way. Bittersweet is a great way to describe it. Grateful for the good times. Sad to see it come to an end. Excited to move on

[@smhouri]

Yea I have like 3.5k hours on destiny 2 and its game i truly loved from the bottom of my heart for both the theme and the game itself. Started playing it from the beginning but had a period of time where i missed the leviathan raids shortly after they came out and i only played the ending of the first one and never got ot experience the rest of them (not to mention that bungie decided to casually take away my exotic shotgun from that raid for some bizzarre reason). I struggled to really understand certain things when i did come back till i found an amazing group/clan that helped fill in the blanks for me and steer me into my strengths in it and in turn i spent my time helping anyone that needed help in the game and learn as i did. Grinded the hell out of the game and loved every second of it, but I was forced to stop playing destiny 2 in Season of the witch when a power surge fried my pc in its entirety. Recently decided to finally watch everything I'v missed on youtube since that season. Oh boy did the FOMO hit me hard and made me just not want to go anywhere near destiny 2... AT ALL, because i clearly missed so much content and so many "goodies" that would not be able to get because of the whole season pass bundle crap. Not to mention that while watching the Echoes "Episode" nonsense and realizing that the ending for it was so braindead and nonsensical, just pushing out content for the sake of content at this point, put me off completely. Makes me sad that my entire clan has basically up and left the game entirely because of all the burnout and disappointment. Such a shame that bungie went down the route that they did and quite literally took a shit in their own cereal and expected us to happily keep eating it while ignoring the shitty taste and rancid smell... so much potential from a game that could have been so much more.. incredibly so... squandered.. for corporate bullshit and cashgrabs...what a damn shame.. The trainstation bullshit is jst.. what

[@marksadler4457]

Also, I see a strong parallel to my vocation (I'm a college professor). Many colegees and universities want students to come back so we are encouraged, in a back handed way, to find ways for students to pass course - many teach to the test. Not much learning goes on but the metrics improve. AAA gaming companies are building toward the metrics as well. Both worlds have left behind thier real mission. In colelge I am to help other learn how to learn, learn how to be better at being a human, a citizen, and at their chosen profession. Game companies are to create fun. It really doesn't seem to be all that complicated.

[@itztizzle]

@@marksadler4457 totally agree with your point. Higher education is treated as a way to make money now as well and it’s so sad to see. We have lots of diploma mills in Canada. It’s a joke. And the cost of post secondary in the States is ridiculous