Ivan's Anvil: Advice please

As ever Ivan is busy in the workshop - this week he's been getting the Bugatti ready to go to Prescott. Video to follow.
Meanwhile he is hoping his followers might be able to advise and help him better understand an old anvil, which he has acquired.

[@Markhobby-n6q]

The anvil you have is a London pattern farriers anvil, not blacksmiths, Ivan. Farriers anvils do not have a cutting table. (The dropped down flat section that you were wondering about). The table is softer than the face or the tapered bick, Beck or horn. (It’s called different things according to where you are from). This was so it would not damage the edge of the cutting tools as they broke through whatever you were cutting. Peter Wright are the best anvils ever made. They are still sort after, long after they stopped making them. The reason being is that the base is dropped forged from wrought iron and then a malleable cast iron plate was forge welded to the top, making the face. Making it this way, the hard face was less likely to chip off at the edge and there was much more recoil when hitting it. The recoil is very important when working on an anvil all day. This means your hammer arm tires less. Also such anvils ring less. A high pitched ring can get very annoying and destroy your hearing quicker. The recoil/ bounce, compared to other inferior manufacturing processes, can be demonstrated by dropping a ball bearing from the same height above the face and watching the height that it bounces back. Anvils in a rural blacksmiths shop were nearly always mounted on wood, to aid in the said recoil and reduced the ring further. Blacksmiths in industrial blacksmiths shops could be mounted on a cast iron stands, as power hammers were usually used, like the workshop that made your Bugatti front axles. Or if they were just being used for occasional “dressing” or adjusting of a forged piece and therefore tiring of the blacksmiths hammer arm was not an issue. They were not mounted on a swage blocks. That was different tool altogether. The edges of the face should be sharp apart from a rounded section about 3” long at the left front of the face by the horn or table. I hope this helps from an expat British farrier and blacksmith living in western Canada, Mark Hobby, Dip W.C.F ( Hons). Diploma of the worshipful company of farriers.

[@davidartina5022]

THIS is why I love KZbin. What a brilliant explanation!

[@gazzafloss]

Sir, your explanation gives, in my mind, a whole new character to an Anvil, not just a 'lump' but a valuable tool. Thank you, I applaud your knowledge of the subject.

[@stevewilliams2498]

I have an old anvil and find the fact it is worn slightly hollow an advantage. If you hit something to straighten a bend on a dead flat surface, I find it tends to bow away from the flat. By hitting over a hollow section it is easier to make it straight. Is this my lack of skills, or is it recognised that a worn anvil is better ?

[@Markhobby-n6q]

@@stevewilliams2498 A flat face with keen edges is always better. However, we get used to wear on an anvil and adapt our technique to its characteristics. For levelling or straightening, you always need space under the part you want to move, otherwise it is being squeezed between the hammer and the anvil and thinning or denting it. You get the space by lifting, using whatever part of the anti is necessary as a rest or lever. Also you have a hardy hole, pritchel hole, a drop to the bick, allowing the piece to move away from the hammer into the void. If you use two edges, such as having the piece over the hardy hole, it will be better supported and not jar your holding hand or tongs.

[@pauldrury9695]

Lovely explanation, I always thought an anvil was an anvil was an anvil! Much appreciated. Paul, Bradford Ontario.

[@BryanWard-oi7qv]

Peter Wright are the best English anvils. This one is a forged anvil with a hardened face, fire welded on. I'd guess about late 1800's. There should be a date on it. You've got the weight right. The holes in it are where they are held with massive tongs/pincers to turn it when being forged on a power hammer. You should find two more on the waist of the anvil. You don't want the edges of the face sharp, as when working near the edge it's too easy to splinter off chunks with the hammer. Just an extra note, when made, the faces of these anvils were very slightly convex from front to back and not flat as some people think. The step that you were talking, between the face and the bick is called the table and isn't part of the hardened face. Also, a lot of people think that they have a cast iron stand for an anvil (Allday and Onions) but they most likely have a swage block stand. Working on an anvil all day on a cast stand drives you loony with the ringing! Love the channel Ivan. Cheers Bryan

[@howardosborne8647]

Now,this is obviously a comment from a guy who knows his onions and his anvils.👌

[@philtucker1224]

Too true! Pre-pre-pre- cad! 😁

[@mikewilson631]

I will only add that the step you talk about is usually softer than the face, so it can be used for cutting. The holes are for punching holes for nails in horseshoes (the round one) and for holding tools such as chisels and bending drifts (the square one). Unfortunately, you may have buggered the top surface by grinding and removing the hardened layer. Might be worth checking. You need a good section of hardwood tree trunk to bring it up to working height.

[@sayeager5559]

Tiger Seal will smooth out the horn real nice.

[@brucewailes7744]

The only advice I would ever give Ivan is to keep on doing what you're doing and keep letting us watch it.

[@malcolmtill]

Peter Wright are considered the best anvils ever.

[@flatbrokefrank6482]

A smith will radius the corner to stop them breaking off, the square hole is called a Hardie hole the round hole is called the pritchel - a section of tree stump makes a good stand and will dampen the noise - stay safe

[@Mr73050]

I have an Alldays & Onions anvil on it's stand. They made cars and bicycles in the Edwardian era in Birmingham, amongst other things.

[@vulgivagu]

I had one of these anvils once. They had a very good rebound and were very popular with blacksmiths and those in the metal working trade. Be careful not to grind the surface anymore as that is the part that is hardened and you can loose the bounce apparently. You got a bargain, they usually go for several hundred pounds.

[@PaulG.x]

Any coyotes in the audience? How about little black ducks?

[@peterrenn6341]

Everything falls faster than an anvil😊

[@stephenwhite5057]

My advice is not to put that grinding stone on your angle grinder.

[@howardosborne8647]

Yes, I also think the spindle rpm on a mains powered grinderette would be too high for that cup wheel. Many of the common brands of 4.5 inch grinderettes are running at around 12,000 rpm which I believe is well in excess of the recommended maximum for that cup wheel.

[@stephenwhite5057]

@@howardosborne8647 Exactly

[@BryanWard-oi7qv]

Hello again Ivan, I'm probably telling my gran how to suck eggs here but - Just looked at your video again. Your thoughts on the radius on the edges of the anvil are correct. If you are right handed, then the bick should be on your left when working on it. (this is so that you can drop your left tongs hand to shape around the bick - the art of forging isn't all about the hammer) Your anvil has a radius on the front left edge where metal has been drawn to a point and the edge has been damaged as a result of slight misses of the work. I would leave it, as you suggested. Also as you suggested, leave the back edge sharp (not super sharp) as you are a lot less likely to damage this edge with your hammer. You can always walk round the anvil and use this edge carefully if you need to. Probably a bit obvious to a man of your talents, but avoid heavy use (sledge hammer etc.) on the hardy/pritchel holes end of the anvil, as I've seen anvils that have broken off across this point. Probably when trying to straighten cold metal. Also take off the very sharp edges off the hardy hole, as the hardy needs a little bit of movement to stop it getting stuck fast. Your farriers anvil has all the tell tale wear of many thousands of shoes being turned on it.

[@brokenbritain9441]

Personally I would leave it as it is don't grind it just use it as it is.

[@daleskidmore1685]

There is a guy who's channel name is Gary Huston. He is a trad blacksmith. I think anvils have sharp corners and soft corners for making different bends. Gary does a lot on his, might be worth checking him out.

[@jonathangehman4005]

Even here in A'murica, Peter Wright anvils are highly sought after and considered as good as an anvil can be. Around here, a Peter Wright in any sort of recognizeable condition is $6-$7.50 a pound. I'm sure someone on here is going to recommend mounting that lovely anvil on a section of tree stump or log to damp the ringing(others will say it's a good way to to "dampen" it, of course, the best way to dampen an anvil is to wipe it with a wet rag). There's a reason that anvils were mounted to swage blocks and other similar lumps back in ye olden days. It stops the ringing and transfers the vibration into the ground. I had my first anvil mounted on an oak stump for several years and was set straight by an old RR Mechanic who saw it and said "Sonny, today I'm going to teach you something that will make you AND your nieghbors very happy". He was correct in both particulars

[@evanjones2539]

Peter. Wright is the dogs bollox....

[@tonycamplin8607]

You shouldn't have machined the work surface. To test whether you've completely ruined it test its bounce as others have suggested. Pter Wright is the top anvil maker.

[@Markhobby-n6q]

I forgot to mention, Ivan, I particularly enjoyed the industrial blacksmith video, as I had the honour of resetting and making and riveting clips on some Bugatti 44 leaf springs. Keep up the good work, Mark Hobby.

[@colinthomasson3948]

It lacks the softer ledge or portion at the front for cutting hot iron with cold chisels as Ivan says, way to test its quality is to drop a big ball bearing - if its a good 'un braring'll happily bounce long and hard for ages and ages

[@g0fvt]

Although my ancient ancestors had a number of blacksmith shops I know nothing about the details of anvils. However I found a channel "Essential Craftsman" one of his videos "The Blacksmith's Anvil" he discusses a little of the functions. He is American but he mentioned British Anvils and specifically the make you have.

[@keithbryan7606]

The step down is a softer part you mentioned or drop-down is for cutting so it doesn’t damage the cutting tool 👍🏻

[@Markhobby-n6q]

Me again Ivan. It has been suggested that you shouldn’t have machined the face. I can tell you that having been in the trade for nearly 46 years, I or colleagues have routinely machined Peter Wright anvils and I have never known anybody to break through the hard surface of the face. Obviously this depends on how badly damaged the face is. A lot of Peter Wrights that fetch stupid money these days, a proper blacksmith would not even considered buying, as they are too far gone. It is true, however, that the face is not as thick as the edge would suggest. If you look at the top of the anvil base, you can see where the seam between the base and the face is, but that is deceiving as the edges of the face were forged welded in for neatness and therefore spread down below the actual thickness of the face plate. Other comments I’ve seen is that the edges should not be sharp. Well I can tell you that they were from the factory and good quality new ones are. Admittedly they were not knife sharp as that can cut into your job, but you need a right angled square, keen edge for many forging processes. It is very frustrating if you don’t have that for many jobs. Also the face should be flat, not convex or concave, as you are often making parts that have to be accurately forged with consistent and continuous profiles and true right angles. When assessing a secondhand anvil of any make, we are always looking for an even flat face and keen right angle edges. However, when you mount an anvil on a block the face should lean away from you slightly. This is so the mill scale falls off the front edge, as you don’t want to forge that back into your job. A little bit more anvil trivia. I could not see if yours has them or not on your video, but there are usually chisel cuts on the edges that flare out on the base like the Eiffel Tower. This is a smith testing the hardening and tempering of a cold chisel that they had just made or sharpened. They would use the chisel to make a cut and then see if it kept its edge. Mark.

[@shed_racing]

Thanks for this Mark, very helpful. When the man machined it for me, he explained he had machined loads of them previously and it had never gone through. Been bit busy on cars, will get back to the anvil soon

[@Markhobby-n6q]

@@shed_racing You’re very welcome Ivan. All your videos are top notch!

[@theafro]

You want at least 1/16" radius on the edges, 1/8 is better. it'll help keep the hard face from chipping, a sharp edge will also leave marks in the bottom side of the metal as you work it. Although I do like to have a really sharp edge somewhere on the anvil as it can be handy sometimes although not for anything very heavy. I'd guess that the one you've got there was a farrier's anvil as they usually didn't need anything bigger than that, and the bick has got some pretty heavy wear right where you'd expect it to be for shoes. it's lovely that it shows it's history like that but at the end of the day it's a tool and should be used as such. you'd have to grind quite a bit off to get it straightened out again and take the pits out, but it'll be a really nice little anvil, and ready for another 100+ years of service! As for stands, I like to have a nice chunk of oak under mine, metal stands are OK, but a solid chunk of stump just feels better (to me anyway)

[@howardosborne8647]

Ivan,just for your safety I would not use a carborundum cup wheel on a grinderette. I believe the maximum recommended rpm for that cup wheel would be well below the spindle speed of a mains powered 4.5 inch grinderette which usually have a spindle speed of approximately 12,000 rpm. A better and safer choice of abrasive wheel would be a Cubitron flap disc which are designed to withstand grinderette spindle speeds. The other bonus of cubitron flap discs is they prevent any hard edged grinding gouge marks that you may well see with a hard carborundum wheel.

[@lawrencecoleman1670]

The edges would normally be dressed to a slight radius. The edges are used for a multitude of things but predominantly for stepping down material. Although you might think you would want a sharp edge for this, a slight radius reduces the risk of forging in coldshuts and stressfractures developing in the item you are forging a step into. I used to grind a 10mm section on either side of the anvil with a 4mm radius and then gently dress the remaining edges the same way you would dress a hammer face. This way you can quickly and easily step down material on the larger radius and sharpen up the transition on the dressed edges when your happy with the location of it. The edges always take a beating and get chipped easily. When I worked at a popular college that teaches blacksmithing I hardfaced and ground the edges of nearly 30 anvils. So that is very possibly why the edges on your anvil are a bit shiny and in such good condition. The surface of the horn is less important as its mainly used for forming not forging. The horn is forged from wrought iron as part of the body and is therefore softer and more prone to damage. The lack of a cutting step isn't a problem you can just chisel through onto an offcut of mild steel that's been annealed. I've forged on probably 30 or 40 different anvils in my time and to be honest the rebound really doesn't matter that much. If you're utilising the heat of the fire properly you will hardly notice the difference between an anvil with a good rebound and one with a bad rebound. The metal in-between the anvil and hammer should be absorbing the bulk of the energy. Harder anvils are a lot noisier to use (as are cast iron stands) so I always preferred a slightly duller sounding anvil on a tree stump.

[@stephenhenion8304]

Very lucky find... old anvils can get pricey...

[@perrydebell1352]

It might be worth talking to Oldfield Forge in Hereford. It would be a great daytrip with the anvil in the boot.

[@brunog1800]

You should get a hold of Craig from Doghouse customs. He was a blacksmith back in the day. His KZbin channel is The Doghouse. A while back he bought an old anvil that had sat in a garden and did a couple videos refurbishing it.

[@jesscourt9068]

I second that........fantastic restoration.

[@johnsmith-z8y]

3rd that

[@Lissa1forGod]

4th

[@A2CVMAN]

Again great , those of us that did Metalwork at school appreciate stuff from the past:)

[@davidforeman8347]

Ivan's Anvil !! I bet "Susie" came up with that! 😅🤣 When you have interesting vehicles behind you I sure would enjoy knowing what they are and the year of them! That would give you a bit more air time. All the best from Alberta Canada

[@BryanWard-oi7qv]

All Mark Hobby's comments are spot on. Yes I'd say it's a farriers anvil too.

[@c.johnstonblacksmith]

Later Peter Wright, normally have a cutting table. Is it possible the top plate came off? How is the rebound? Tap with a hammer or drop a ball bearing. Radius on the edges from zero at the heel to 1/4” at the horn Also radii in the hardy and pritchel holes so as to not marr the work.

[@gado6438]

Take it to John at Doubleboost.

[@Cemi_Mhikku]

Completely unrelated to the question at hand, but now that I know Ivan HAS an '02, I wanna see him do fun things with it.

[@shed_racing]

yes the tii, Suzie and I got that last year -check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2a7cmt8rM-Bo8Usi=CR1gQeF22IR6EhYG

[@Cemi_Mhikku]

@@shed_racing I thought I'd seen something with it! Funny that you got it on Ebay. Picked up a '75 Base there back in January and immediately fell in love. Doesn't hurt that at some point someone converted her to dual Weber DCOE 40s, though! Very zoomy, and extra fun with the limited slip rear.

[@EVguru]

Almost a twin of my Peter Wright, except mine has a the cutting table at the back of the horn. As others have said, these are forged anvils with a wrought Iron body and a forge welded steel top. The Black Bear Forge YT channel has lots of useful information about assessing anvil condition and dressing the top corners.

[@AndyScutt]

Every video you make is so interesting/ keep on keeping on Ivan !!

[@BryanWard-oi7qv]

You'll be ok grinding the bick to shape with a grinder as you'll find it's quite soft. Finish it off with a good broad file, you get a better shape that way.

[@associatedblacksheepandmisfits]

You gotta do whatever would be most useful to the way you work m8 , adapt and vorsprung 😅 did you design the Melos ?😊😊

[@shed_racing]

no, a different Dutton

[@robertsimpson22]

Who wouldn't want to see an Alldays And Onions anvil stand? Yes please, you two!!

[@eweunkettles8207]

they made motorcycles too

[@emmajacobs5575]

Smith and Sniff definitely would!

[@oh_crisis]

Just mount it securely and use it. It'll take on a life of its own.

[@avianfish8732]

Nice, I think the numbers are the weight. The tops are usually hardened, Might wear out your milling machine!! For making cart horse shoes!

[@DavidLucas-hf1cx]

Anvils are cool.. I would be game for more…

[@MarkSherman-hv2pq]

Keep one edge sharp but feel free to grind a gently increasing radius on the rough edge. You will find it a useful feature to have at hand.

[@roylaunchbury-rainey8568]

The best way to test an anvil for its quality is the ball bearing test! Drop a quality ball bearing from your hand at any hight onto the face of the anvil and it should bounce back to your hand. I picked up an anvil of Gumtree a couple of years ago, oddly the markings on it had been ground out but it had the bounce factor so I am happy with it.

[@gazzafloss]

I always recognise the skill of a man who says "I'll just take the corners off with a file", your good self Ivan, and of course the other National treasure, Allen Millard. Everyone else, "we'll just knock that off with a grinder"😄.

[@letsbefrank6269]

My brother in law wants to get into blacksmithing, but being in a residential area, his hands are tied. His neighbours will no doubt be happy he hasn’t an anvil! I guess we can’t always get what we want. He’ll have to find a quieter hobby! 😊

[@wheater5]

Twenty years five years ago a work colleague of mine told the story of how he went to a farm sale in a hired small hatchback. He bid on a big anvil and won it. It was so big and heavy it took four or five helpers to load in the rear footwell. It finally dropped in with a bit of a clunk. When he got home he couldn’t get it out of the car. When he finally got enough helpers to lift it out he found it had bent the car!

[@ungurdani8346]

Salut my friend super car .. super video subscribe subscribe

[@marciabaldwin2506]

Ivan, there are many people who are on KZbin that are restoring them. Maybe it's worth asking them I know one of them either wrought iron or cast it's advised too heat it up it up so it don't crack before welding it ❤ would love to see the other anvil ❤

[@hermesjackle5903]

I have a very similar one , I'm going to see if I can find the make on it. I paid £200.00 two years ago off an old farm, mine is concaved on the top, I would need to weld and grind it. I'm going to leave it as it is , it does for what I want .

[@erichlausch9886]

🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨

[@lewissmith-x9c]

Always a sharp edged so you can form a right angle over it. Rounded corners means it’s worn out

[@guadalupesanchezherrera5670]

No sé qué consejo darte para el yunque, pero el Alvis me gusta...

[@77Sunsetstrip]

Chrome plate it!

[@chrisjohnson4165]

Traditionally they sit on an oak stump.

[@kathysarmcandy1992]

Bounce a bearing on it, please. Need the ting ting.

[@Radioman1937]

Wish I had a good anvil. Hard to find now that size.

[@stevewilliams2498]

You definitely need a vice to go with that

[@nickwilcox8340]

I have the same one .

[@JD-hh9io]

I want one

[@brianperiard495]

In Canada they go for 5 to 8 bucks a pound

[@brianperiard495]

asking price

[@jbburton5928]

Cast iron has a chilled skin very hard

[@bigears4014]

Anvils aren't cast iron they are cast steel

[@EVguru]

@@bigears4014 The cheapest ones were(are) cast Iron, awful things with no bounce.

[@billrandell4641]

You've buggered it good by milling it! ..That's a "hardened" surface!..It will be damaged permanently if you "hammer" on it before addressing this!.. The part near the horn is NOT for hammering on!. It's soft as nd not hardened. The edges should NOT be sharp or serious "chipping" damage will occur....The most important thing is "hardening" the striking surface again!..Like a camshaft, the "hardening" is only a few thousands thick and again, like a camshaft, without it the surface while deteriorate rapidly! ..(How to ruin a "survivor" anvil)...👎🗽🇺🇸