NFL Fan Reacts to Why Ultras Are So Important For Football

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[@nikinhosvr4861]

Here in Germany Ultras and fans have been protesting heavily in recent weeks against potential new investors in the league. They were throwing things on the pitch, setting off smoke bombs and hanging banners, boycotting etc. and now we have finally been successful and the German league announced they will cancel the procedure!

[@lynnm6413]

We‘ve also seen a protest banner from Bayer Leverkusen that read ‚there are many styles of music, but only 2 genders‘ in Nov 23. The German Football league DFB made them pay a fine of 18K €, but then the protest got taken up by other Fangruppen in the lower leagues. DFB also only runs a man and a women‘s league, and fans are over the hypocrisy of higher ups and their DEI bs

[@kari9354]

fkn wp

[@ObradPopovic-cs8if]

Bravo💪

[@claushansen4381]

So thats what the rc cars with smoke bombs was about

[@bleibclean7967]

@@claushansen4381yes

[@ansgaranzinger493]

In Germany the Ultra protests against investors suceeded recently.

[@tomtorom5814]

🎾

[@Holilo7]

...and was very creative and funny.

[@raketensven3127]

⚾🥎⚾🥎⚾🥎

[@Patrick-on2ty]

👍

[@jasonwales6502]

Why a team like Leipzig now with red bull are now the 2 or 3rd best team in the country whereas their local neighbours Dynamo Dresden with their large ultras group are in the third tier and probably why the same team have won the league 11 or so years in a row..

[@andreanecchi5930]

I suggest you watch the videos of American basketball players who played in Europe, who talk about basketball in Europe

[@nekane6168]

Yessss!

[@nekane6168]

"american basketball players Talk about european atmosphere"

[@horstmitteregger7977]

Football in Europe is passion. In the USA it's business.

[@gunner38ED]

It's a business everywhere. A brazillian making 50 milions a year playing in Europe and flirting with another team that is making an offer to pay him 60 milions, is not here for the "passion" and the "colors". They are all mercenaries.

[@domiiinik4320]

@@gunner38ED Not all, 90%

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@nekane6168]

Football moves fckloads of money. Fanbase might feel the colours with passion, but clubs and players don't give a fck about them. Football players go wherever pays more, and clubs just take money from fans.

[@MeloGS1905]

Modern football also became business. Champions league is boring with plastic fans. Ultras groups is what is keeping this sport alive.

[@rollmops7948]

When you are in the middle of one of those crowds, you feel the adrenalin pumping...it is like being in a party, a fiesta, being a piece of giant body. After the football match, you go to one of the neigbouring pubs or taverns to cool yourself down with a number of beers.(In Belgium, we got a lot of excellent beers, lol) I've been to some american football match (California) and it is not comparable. I was one of the few ones screaming and supporting the players. Most of the US spectators are going in and out the tribunes all the time, drinking, eating, sitting calmly..;it was weird.

[@mariokuppers5686]

I can confirm the Belgium beer. A lot of them even better than our German Dirt. But where we get him into an Ultra Block. Brugge? Anderlecht? Standard and Gent should be next to impossible. Charleroi would be an idea for the Best Belgium Experience. Mediocore Football, not so Overrun and after the Game Good Beer and even better Steaks. Ok the City itself Sucks but the nice Belgium Places aren´t far away

[@solidsteel3634]

Fun fact: The German first division club Eintracht Frankfurt was fined around 433,000 euros by the sports court of the German Football Association for setting fire to around 190 Bengalos (flares) in two cases 😅

[@raketensven3127]

In my club, we joke about surviving some cup rounds only to pay the fines.

[@Hartmut-oo5ts]

Zwietracht Zankfurt hat ausserdem die schlagkräftigsten Hools ausserhalb von Russland... ;-)) 👍

[@solidsteel3634]

@@Hartmut-oo5ts Naajaaaaaa.. Frankreich ist auch nicht schlecht 😅

[@Hartmut-oo5ts]

​@@solidsteel3634Du meinst die Paris - Marseille Rivalität? Das ist ein wenig ruhiger geworden; das war vor 25 Jahren mal ein Ding. Nee, die Zankfurter hatten erst vor ein paar Jahren ein paar englische Grossmäuler derart in Fetzen gerissen, dass deren Käseblätter dort tagelang darüber berichtet hatten. Das war, als Leeds in Österreich im Trainingslager ein Testspiel gegen Frankfurt machte, und die dummen Inselaffen meinten, die Teutonen provozieren zu müssen. Irgendeine alte Geschichte aus den 70ern (?) steckte dahinter, und die Zankfurter haben´s dann "gerade gerückt". SiW mussten 80 Limeys im Krankenhaus stationär behandelt werden... Ist schon blöd, wenn man nicht ernst nimmt, dass die Jungs auf der anderen Seite mit Sturmmasken und paarweise getapten Fingern anrücken...

[@Crushonius]

@@Hartmut-oo5ts aber auch so ziemlich die fairsten , der ort fur die dritte halbzeit ist entweder bekannt oder wird mitgeteilt alle anderen fans werden in ruhe gelassen und es wird sofort aufgehört wenn einer liegt und sich nicht mehr wehren kann . naja zumindest war das so in den 2000ern war ewig nicht mehr da

[@xFurashux]

It goes deep af. I was never a major football fan but when I went to middle school in 2000s in Poland I choose the side of the local club that was mostly supported in my middle school to blend it because people were checking who supports who. Those few that supported the local rival were regularly hunted down or had to do 1v1 fights after school.

[@GusMac6129]

You don't really get Ultras in England, only a few clubs have them. However, most clubs in Scotland do have ultra groups. Attending a game in England is becoming a very expensive experience, pricing out many of those that you could class as the common man, that would have been the regular attender 20/30 years ago. Corporate greed has certainly taken over in England's top league.

[@davidhilkes3847]

20 is plenty.

[@Eastlomond]

In the main, any ultras in Scotland, apart from the Union Bears and the Green Brigade are small fry and insignificant except to themselves. Most of those as highlighted by Footy Adventures for example are young boys and to call them ultras is like comparing a domestic cat with a lion.

[@superstardeejay2468]

I see nothing but good in clubs in Scotland having ultras. Of course the groups are really small, but they come with the same passion as The Green Brigade. The Green Brigade and the Union Bears hate each other, but they were united in the repelling The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act, which gave free reign for the police to criminalise football fans. The small ultras groups in Scotland still bring noise and colour to football, at all levels, which can only been seen as a good thing. @@Eastlomond

[@zivkovicable]

@@superstardeejay2468 Two sets of sectarian bigots united in the fight for the right to be bigoted towards each other...Brings a tear to my eye.

[@damcie]

True. English fan culture is unfortunately dead!

[@josteingravvik2381]

Hey Ian !!! There is a line where the support for your club morf into something much more sinister and destructive episodes. There was a period in the 90s where "Hooligans" from various places around Europe went to an away match purely to raise hell and pick fights. That I do not defend at all. But a football match without the atmophere that these hardcore fans create, isn't much to go to neighter. SO, where do one draw the line?

[@RickyisSwan]

See my comment to Ian in the main section. You speak of atmosphere and there is none better than 100,000 people at the Melbourne Cricket ground on AFL Grand Final day. In case you don’t know our game, (which draws higher weekly attendances than any football game in the world per capita, and fourth highest overall regardless of population) search for, “What is AFL, Aussie rules explained.” 🇦🇺🦘

[@k.v.7681]

Not just in the 90's. About 15 years ago I took my little brother to see his favorite team. I never cared much for football but he was a fan. A grown man saw fit to punch an 8 year old child in the face for supporting an other team than his. Not only did nobody intervene, they actually cheered him on. I ended up with 8 stitches on my face and a broken rib trying to shield my kid brother on the ground. I was 17. The same night had 4 looted stores and a dozen burned cars, and the emergency services were slammed by the result of supposed sports fans. Sure, there's "Ultra" and then hooligan. But from experience, quite a lot of Ultras, especially the politicized ones, are just hooligans that don't have the balls to act openly. They'll be perfectly happy getting a sneaky kick in washing their hands as being "just a fan".

[@RickyisSwan]

@@k.v.7681 That’s horrible. So different in my country Australia. We get over 100,000 people to the grand final of our national game, Australian rules football. Families with kids sitting side-by-side with opposition fans and aside from maybe the odd idiot, it is one huge happy family. They scream their heads off, mainly at the umpire, (referee) but they are there to enjoy the game and not cause trouble or violence. If you’re not familiar with the game, search for , “What is AFL, Aussie rules explained.” It attracts the biggest weekly attendances of any sport in the world per capita, and is the fourth highest regardless of population. Highly skilled elite athletes who do not wear helmets or padding, Even though it is a tough contact sport. It’s high-scoring, fast paced, and highly entertaining, you should check it out. Cheers.

[@StevenDowns-kf8vz]

Things that never happened...

[@RickyisSwan]

One draws the line with AFL, Australian rules football. 100,000 fans at the two previous grand finals with opposition fans seated side-by-side. Except for the odd idiot it is one big happy family including children. The atmosphere would blow your mind, all screaming at once, we do not acts of violence to create the excitement like you wouldn't believe. 🇦🇺🦢

[@xkillerrorx]

connor sullivan has an intrsting video about football in germany its called My FIRST GERMAN SOCCER GAME!! *INSANE* you can see some behinde the scene

[@Humaftw]

The Yugoslav Wars pretty much started with a football game. Serbian and Croatian hooligans/ultras made up a large part of the most savage paramilitaries during that time. They literally went to war with each other.

[@locochoco5959]

One-sided story there. Servia had idiotic war criminals in their "delije". Croatian "hooligans" BBB were freedom fighters and nothing else, no paramilitaries just ordinary citizens fed up with communism and servian psychotic illusions.

[@ileana8360]

BS

[@kinglizard3406]

@@ileana8360 partialy he is corect, Serbian oficer look aeay when Serbs provoke but start hitin Cro fans for less stuff, for Croats was great moment when player Boban hit Serbian oficer who was beating fans and players,, ultras and fans all over Croatia join and creat first fighters in that war..

[@bgdabg6769]

​@@kinglizard3406 what Serbian officer you lier? Cop was muslim. Croats are only European nation to be in open, official alliance with muslims. In Bosnia they have entity called Muslim-Croat federation.

[@kinglizard3406]

@@bgdabg6769 bcs thats Croats and Bosnian who under Ottomans ocupation become muslim,. Muslim is religion not nationality, in BiH ARE 3 RELIGION, SHOULD WE BE LIKE YOU AND HATE EVERYONE . and IF cop was muslim and muslims are friends with Croats why did he beat Croats, something is not right in your propaganda

[@lsp8542]

In Germany Ultras started some weeks ago protest and some more "Casual" fans joined them in mostly all Stadiums down to the 3rd and even sometimes lower leagues against a planed investor in the league The League could only hold their position for 2 1/2 months, 2 days ago they stoped the plan

[@ZalgirinisVilniaus]

Good job guys. Football is for you and me, not the f...king industry

[@zivkovicable]

So they set fire to the company offices? Kidnapped some staff members at gun point? Destroyed the stadium? That was how Serb Ultras protested in the 2000's.

[@MarcelL-DM]

There's definitely a difference between Ultra's and hooligans although a lot of Ultra groups show hooligan tendencies. To understand more about hooligans you have an old series called 'the real football factories' and ' the real football factories International' also on KZbin

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@bgdabg6769]

You can't understand anything from idiotic series and ultras are hooligans. Or at least are more violent than "hooligans"

[@MarcelL-DM]

@@bgdabg6769 Not over here or in the UK. Ultra's do all the banners and atmosphere stuff. Hooligan firm's are responsible for the violence. And to debate who is more violent is the age old discussion of wich one is the baddest. I don't care about that. And you're right. They'll probably don't understand it just like someone who hasn't been in a war would understand how it is to be a soldier in one, but it gives a certain insight.

[@bgdabg6769]

@@MarcelL-DM I'm war veteran and I understand that too. Also, my team is Red Star and organised group is considered to be ultras. No one bothers if called hooligans also. From my experience I don't believe there is any hooligan group more violent. I'm not talking just RS but other top European ultras. For me, it is strange to say it is different in terms of violence. If you say -hooligan only- groups don't care for atmosphere, constant singing, visuals, banners, etc. I can agree to that.

[@davidhilkes3847]

As a German that moved to the Midwest to go to college 30 years ago and ended up staying ,I am familiar with U.S. and German fan culture. Look up Germany’s 50+1 Rule and think about what it means compared to billionaire owners in the U.S. and England. I am a member (owner) of FC St. Pauli. I can go to the membership meetings, bring in ideas, vote on proposals. The club provides a lot of sports that are not as popular as our men’s first team. We are German champion of football for the blind and have a roller derby team. Loads of Rugby. I have not lived in my hometown Hamburg in 30 years but that is the club I started supporting as a kid on the terraces and is the club I will support until the day I die. That bond will never go. Now a Chicago guy I of course like Da Bears but our nemesis the Packers are the only community-owned major sports franchise in the U.S. that I am aware of. Heads off to the Cheeseheads.

[@themostwntedeh8367]

The Red Star vs Dinamo Zagreb match began the Balkan War

[@stipe9773]

Still waiting for the rematch

[@bgdabg6769]

​@@stipe9773You want destroyed Zagreb again? 😂

[@Robalogot]

The thing you have to realize that sports teams in Europe and South America are different from the US, you don't have franchises. Sports clubs originated in communities that existed for hundreds of years, so the fans were there before the clubs in some sort of way. Within cities you have teams that represent the working class communities, while other teams represent the elite. In the US it's somewhat represented by college sports, but even though it's somewhat in the right direction, it's still not there yet. The fact that teams are located so close to each other, means that your daily life gets impacted. In schools you get bullied because your team lost again, or you feel some kind of vindication when the rich brats team gets pummeled by your "poor man's team". Imagine a city like LA having 5 professional teams, all representing different classes and groups in society. Imagine (sorry for my ignorant US stereotype use here) the Beverly Hills team playing in South Central. Or a team from a black community playing a white community in Mississippi... It can be great, but when it's serious it can escalate. The civil war in Yugoslavia started after a football game.

[@jameswg13]

recently Ultras in Germany of all German Bundesliga teams have been doing mass protests disrupting games etc in protest against Outside investors trying to effectively take over the Bundesliga. They have succeeded the German football federation effectively stopped the deal based on fan protests.

[@lsp8542]

Not all but most clubs

[@c6sm9sgg69]

I started loving europian football because of Ronaldinho when he was playing for Barcelona, he used to play Samba football which is one of the most interesting style to play. Now a days Samba football is almost forbidden, hich made me love Football less, now I'm only watching worldcup and champion league final.😢

[@LordofLaughs]

Tikitaka killed it

[@markjones127]

The fans are definitely a 12th man on the pitch, I love watching two leg European matches as they're home and away and the home advantage can be insane for some clubs, like Anfield where Liverpool play, it's amongst the most feared stadiums in Europe and unlike some their fans aren't aggressive or intimidating, they just roar for the team and some kind of magic happens, I remember seeing Mikel Arteta (ex Arsenal player and current manager) talk about it, he said Anfield was the only stadium in the world where he ever felt lost, like him and his team completely lost control of the game and felt helpless, unable to respond. One great example is the second leg of the European Champions League semi-final in 2019, Liverpool lost 3-0 away in Barcelona in the first leg, and most people made Liverpool the underdogs for the home leg as it was Barcelona, one of the best teams in the world with the best player in the world Messi, before the game Jurgen Klopp the Liverpool manager told his players "It's impossible but because it's you we have a chance", two of Liverpool's key attacking players Salah and Firmino were injured, but the players went out there and beat Barcelona 4-0 to win 4-3 overall, you should watch the highlights of that game to see how important the fans are in such key matches, that game in particular was truly incredible, it was like the fans were worth an extra 2-3 players on the pitch! Also in that game two of Barcelona's best attackers were ex-Liverpool players which added another dimension too.

[@zo7034]

Having been to games all over Europe. I find that games in Britain are the quietest atmospheres. Anfield might be one of the quietest stadiums I've been to.

[@Rotterdam-ik3pw]

@@zo7034English atmosphere is different but not bad. They are more a reactionary crowd. Like what happens on the pitch decide the reaction of the fans. Sometimes they cheer for every throw-in, every shot. But true it’s not well organized like most other countries

[@markjones127]

@@zo7034 Do some research into which stadiums teams ACTUALLY fear in European Competition, there's a reason LFC have over performed more than any other team in the UCL, at times when they've been poor domestically too, every word I typed was factually correct, Including Arteta saying it's the stadium he feared the most, and I've heard Wenger and Mourinho say the same.

[@Hartmut-oo5ts]

@@markjones127Jaja, all good and so. But you´re aware where Klopp came from? Google "Yellow Wall Dortmund", and then slow down a bit, willya?

[@zo7034]

Arteta seems like the kinda guy whos scared of his own shadow, so thats not a very impressive claim to fame.@@markjones127

[@gerbentvandeveen]

I come from Bunschoten-Spakenburg, Netherlands. And for a long time there were 2 football clubs. From Bunschoten-Spakenburg, in the same class. And also played against each other twice a season. A Derby! But their football clubs are next to each other. IJsselmeervogels and S..V. SPAKENBURG. The largest amateur competition in the world.

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@knutvoberg4236]

Oh, I only heard about it recently and watched some videos - it was impressive! I thought the derby was still around - what happened? Did one of the clubs get promoted or relegated?

[@martijnijzerman2309]

@@knutvoberg4236Ijsselmeervogels relegated

[@Der_Freibeuter]

@@knutvoberg4236 Ijsselmeervogels got relegated last season.

[@Sherlieholmes01]

Dortmunds South is legendary with the choreo...biggest Stand in Europe ❤

[@Pedroclf]

I was part of the largest ultra supporters in Brazil. The name is Gaviões da Fiel. They support Corinthians. In 2012 about 40 thousand supporters went from Brazil to Japan to watch Corinthians vs Chelsea for the Fifa World Club.

[@jhdix6731]

Yes, rivalries between neighbouring teams are a thing, but there are limits to that. If for example one of the archrivals has a chance to play team a few leagues above (e.g. in a cup match), it is not unheard of that the rival's fans are supporting that underdog team against the bigger team. They might be rivals, but they also are neighbours, and In those cases, regional pride often beats club loyalty. It's a bit like siblings constantly nagging each other, but will defend each other against anyone from the outside doing the same.

[@SimSim-zf9if]

Thats a load of rubbish

[@butenbremer1965]

My 21 yo son is an active member of one of the Bundesliga's FSV Mainz 05 Ultra Fan Groups, and I've caught on to the "virus" myself to some extent. It's been wild and energetic, to say the least! If you want to experience the "real thing", make sure to get a ticket for the standing section of either the home or visiting team.

[@henkebenke573]

In stockholm sweden we have actually 4 teams in the same city, Hammarby if, Djurgården if, AIK, BP, and its alot of hate between us, especially hammarby djurgården aik, those are the biggest clubs in stockholm. Usually hammarby has between 25-30000 every game. Even so its a small capacity compared to the rest of the big teams in europe. I am a Hammarby fan. And the fun thing is that we have been mentioned in the world wide press many times for our tifos, pyros, fans, ultras, etc, as you say ultras and the way we support our teams dont exist in the states, but also i would say that football is not as big in the states as it is in europe. And we have to remember that the states is like 250 years old and europe has been around for thousands of years! I can tell you that the ultras and the tifos makes the experience a whole lot better, with that being said the pyros is not legal, atleast not in sweden, 😊

[@Isleofskye]

Great and there are 12 teams in London..

[@CobraChicken101]

Never been part of these, but my colleague is an Ultra, he travels to every game even abroad. Very very nice guy, and his teams Ultras have also never caused trouble. BUT This being said there still are games, each season, that get stopped because ultras are tearing up the stadium. Teams get punished with fines and that next games have to be played behind closed doors, or without away fans. So yes they are not all criminals, and clubs do need them. But like what you said " you dont want them to get crazy out of control" and unfortunately they do at least a few times a year cross the line, where stuff gets broken and or people get hurt. Usually the same few teams. At least that is the situation here in Belgium.

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; I want us to discuss!!

[@vhugom]

Copa 90 has very interesting videos, I wish you could see one they have about the Copa LIbertadores, a championship played in South America similar to the Champion League... "is the Copa Libertadores better than the Champions League???" .. I wish you could react to that video, so you get a general idea of what soccer is like in these latitudes. Remember that the best players in the world come from here.

[@stennostenno1346]

COPA is amazing in capturing the overall mood and excitement about football

[@stewrmo]

A few years ago my club, Glasgow Rangers, made it to a European Cup Final in Seville, Spain. Our side alone took 200,000 fans without a single arrest.

[@hfo9970]

Here in the Netherlands my boyhood club is FC Groningen and due to the board financially failing and us relegating to the 2nd division which was a huge upset the ultras negotiated a contract with the club that decisions should first be communicated with them before being made final. The ultras basically now have a huge say and share the club with the financial owners. But the ultras deserve it as they created some mesmerizable banners and flags and always stick by the club.

[@flibbidyx2]

I would encourage you to attend an MLS game just for the experience (Chicago Fire FC currently plays at Soldier Field). It's not going to be on the level same as you'll find in many parts of Europe, but still, MLS fan bases have adopted elements of European traditions and fandom, so there's a least a taste of it. It's a very different environment compared to an NFL or MLB game.

[@OlleMalmo]

Going to matches and being a part of the European supporter culture is amazing. As they say in the video, away matches and derbys are something special, your supportership goes outside the 90 minutes in the stadium. If you get the chance to attend a big match in for example Sweden, Germany, Greece, France or somewhere else were the supporters are a big part of the clubs, take it!

[@philip4588]

Should see the other Ultra - our way of life

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Awesome!! Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner!!

[@JohnDoe-xz1mw]

you cant have stuff like this when your sports teams are franchises, it just doesnt work that way. but its not all good with the ultras, yes they enhance the game alot but they are also the once who are resorting to violence at least some of them.

[@LkplaysYT]

The best Ultras in my opinion 1-Força jovem(Vasco) 2-Mancha alviverde(Palemiras) 3-Galoucura(Atlético mineiro) 4-Köln Fans 5-Hamburg Fans

[@akiakos]

Copa90's derby days is an increadible series to check out

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@zepreus6412]

In my young days 23 club fans and me with 3 friends made the enmy club go quiet and sit - I rored the keywords and the rest followed up with a chant to it all game time. It went in the news for the contry since we made 32.000 homefans feel it was no longer ther stadium. Big rush and even my girlfrien came from the kitchen when she thought she heard me call somthing but I was in the garden and she came to get me and show me and the guyes in the sports on Tv ;-)

[@Road2NENDO]

"portrayed as criminals" in my contry we have a local match where the ultras from each team always end up fighting and mostly some people die. so yeah they are kind of criminals. But besides that, they are everything for the match and giving energy to everyone on the stadium and watching on tv

[@janmeyer3129]

On the other hand, Aussie Rules footy, one of the most violent of games, does not have a tradition of fan violence. I can remember being wedged into a train compartment with fans of both teams from a grand final, all buzzed and singing club songs to one another, with big smiles on their faces. Felt so good.

[@macaar11ify]

U should see southamerican barras bravas, not only in Argentina. It is different.

[@yadiracamacho499]

The closest I'ven been to ultras was once I won some tickets to see a Champions match at the Santiago Bernabeú (Real Madrid's home stadium). It was behind the goal but up high and close to the area where the ultras from the other team were. It was crazy! Really memorable. It was a small Russian team, so they weren't many, but they did make themselves heard.

[@margarita053]

when ultras dont attend the games the game is boring. Come to Balkans you will have the time of your life!

[@sassa9553]

In Croatia first group who start helping to rescue babies from hospital after erthquake was ultras B.B.B.

[@tomasruzic6917]

Unlike American sports where the clubs are corporations a lot of these clubs are 100% (or at least 51%) member owned. A lot of leagues have a 51% rule where 51% of the club ownership must belong to the members so shareholders, billionaires or corporations can only buy up to 49% and hence do not have a majority ownership or vote. It makes a world of difference to go and watch a team owned by Elon Musk or Red bull play vs a team owned by Jeff Bezos or Qquatari oil money, to be etertained for 2 hours. Than watching the team that has been a part of you town/city for hundred years (or more), where you are a member and hence a part of the club. When I talk about my team I refer to the team as "We" because that is what it is. Ultras don't go and watch matches to be entertained (it's a nice bonus though), they go to support their team and community and to intimidate the opponents. Premier League (england) sold out and now all the team are owned by oligarks, sheiks, corporations and billionaires. They earn more money, the football is probably better, but they dont have any ultras or proper supporters and the atmosphere on the arenas is dead, the matches in PL has become more of tourist attraction

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@raulramirez8885]

Ultras are not common in the US quite yet. I'm part of a group that supports a local 4th division team in California and I can confidently say we're one of, if not the only team at this level that uses pyro, smoke, flags, banners, tifos and drums. Even when done on a smaller scale, the pride you take in your work is immense.

[@valije]

The vid is just a few seconds up and there are 2 bots showing meat already.

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@gromosvidaselvagem]

"Brazilians torcidas " Cara as torcidas organizadas de Football no Brasil são muito mais importantes que os Ultras europeus e isso é um fato .

[@suicidalbanananana]

I love people going above and beyond to support their favorite club, the vibe you get from these matches is crazy, but i really dislike like the whole "lets destroy a bunch of random stores & kick a guy supporting the other team to death because we lost the match" part of it... I know it's only the ~1% or whatever that goes over the line but still, the rest not holding them back is what bothers me, you wanna be passionate about your club go right ahead, but keep it civil.

[@mariokuppers5686]

Casuals are not in the Ultra Block. If you have ever the Chance outside of an Derby wich can escalate hard do it it would be an great experience no matter wich club. Exept Bayern Munich .that aren´t even Fans

[@Hartmut-oo5ts]

Uli´s Kunden. ;-))

[@diegoholm6307]

Man you should watch argentinians football crowds

[@K-R-O-L]

Now imagine Deapool buying a British soccer club in 2020 Two years later, in tears as fans invade the soccer pitch after winning the National League title and being promoted back to League Two after a 15-year absence😲💪

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; I want us to discuss!!

[@Isleofskye]

I enter my 8th decade in London in May and bemoan many of the sanitized changes under the guise of "progress" which is, often, a misnomer. When I went to the first of my 1,770 games over 60 years ago, you chose which game and travelled through London, queued up and 75% chose to stand up with 25% seats. You could take in a few games every week, usually 3 matches from Saturday to Saturday. Now,in the Top 2 divisions, there are All Seater Sradiums ( ASS) which, finally, after 30 years are allowing "Safe standing areas" and to be honest most fans STANd and ignore the seats. Also, many passionate working-class fans are priced out to be replaced by quieter middle-class fans and tourists.

[@Crushonius]

all sports in the highest leagues is orchestrated , its reality tv , scripted to a tee, latest example the super bowl disney uhm i mean the nfl bought americas sweetheart taylor sh*t to do a publicity stunt so they could get some eyeballs back on the sport , it was all they talked about the whole season taylor kelce and the chiefs and to absolutely nobodies surprise they just so happen to also win the superbowl . i even called the overtime fieldgoal vs touchdown (even made a nice 2k betting on it) they wanted to show off how "good" the new rules for ot work. if you watched this season and can not see how scripted it was you are either blind or a chiefs fan 😂😂🤣

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@gladiusthrax4941]

Ultras and their finger in activities beyond the game is nothing new by any measure. If we look at the Nika Riots from the 6th century, it is the most violent revolt in the history of Constantinople and it was started by supporters of different chariot ricing teams. Crazy Byzantine racing fans, hey 😁 I have walked between the obelisks of that hippodrome. Quite surreal when you know a tiny bit of history and are a racing fan yourself

[@karimze1196]

React to ultras our way of life

[@Mamradsellzze]

Can you make video about the czech trains, they are so cool. Thanks!

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@Milan-lr2hf]

9:30 I can tell you one thing about football and it’s very sad I got (my opinion now) from the best sport to the most Corporatised sport in the world its just boring watching but football clubs but watching smaller ones is just such an event

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; I want us to discuss!!

[@SounderMom31]

3:25 I’m proud to say I’m part of the this Supporters Group from Seattle, the Emerald City Supporters. I was actually part of the leadership of one of the Sub-Groups called ASG (Armed Services Group). Absolute best time of my life. I had to step down from leadership when I moved back home to Germany in September 2016 (lived in WA for 20+ years), but I made a promise to fly wherever I needed to, should we make it to the MLS Cup Final. I was on the plane to Toronto in December that same year and we brought the Cup to Seattle. Besides my wedding and the birth of our son, the best day(s) of my life. The morning of the match we actually got to say hello to the team in their hotel lobby and I remember coach Schmetzer walking up to me and say “You actually flew out here from Germany.” My responds was “I promised, didn’t I?” I was on the phone with my son while the hotel lobby and Nelson Valdez actually took the time to talk to him on his way to breakfast. Valdez was my son’s favorite player at the time, because he had previously played for our German Club Borussia Dortmund. See, the fantastic thing about the MLS is (I hope it’s still that way), that the players are VERY interactive with their fans. Especially the Supporters Groups and that goes for pretty much every MLS team. Luckily I booked a stop in Seattle on the way back to see friends and I was able to be part of the celebration parade. Those are experiences you can’t put a price tag on. Greeting from Germany. EBFG Eternal Blue, Forever Green

[@luinpuin4152]

9.15 you are so true, a lot of the soul is gone in sports. It is not for the public anymore but a money machine with players who are not of this world anymore.

[@locochoco5959]

Not even mentioning Torcida, formed in 1950 - the oldest ultras group in Europe. Copa90 sometimes..

[@bgdabg6769]

Torcida was not formed in 1950. It was 1981. Before that they never existed. They lie a lot all the time for a internet glory. You can find pictures of Ajax in mid 70s, Red Star massive away in Zagreb in '61, Grobari big riot video from '73... but not Torcida before '81. Name is stolen culture of south America and their organised fans.

[@nerubine7332]

I have involentary been part of Ultras storming the neutral fan zone and we had to flee inside.

[@lummergnu]

The problem with U.S. is simple, you got franchises…..the rest of the world got community clubs. Now got look for Aris vs PAOK derbys, both basket and football 😉

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@Hartmut-oo5ts]

YES! PAOK FTW!

[@tmdsg8]

React to the Beauty of Football

[@jameswg13]

ive been on the receiving end of ultras violence but also taken part in performances on big match days, away days and significant moments. I dont get to as many games now but always try to support my club however possible

[@jacoposcarabello]

In Italy we call the supporters on the stands "the 13th player on the field"! In Europe sports' fandoms (of every sport) are tribalism at its best, in the good and the bad! Said that there are a lot of controversies since within the Ultras there are from very energetic supporters to literal criminals! Not all stadiums are safe for the average lay man... if they were just supporting their team it would have been amazing, but in many cases there a lot of frustrated people waiting for an excuse to fight, especially when there's a bad relationship between the two teams matching. In Italy there's a lot of political clashes between far-right and far-left extremist supporters, there's still a lot racism in the chants and violence... laws to ban this sort of behaviours are harshening, but they don't work all the time since the teams not always support law enforcement to identify these people (since they are in conflict of interest, considering that banning a fan for life is a ticket less, and here we talk about thousands of potential ticket less).

[@Ziomel1]

I am a Bears fan and I come from Poland, as a kid, soccer was the main sport everybody watched, lots of legendary players has come that time and it was less corporated. I have lost interest past 2008 as the soccer become a hub for big corporations and owners with massive wallets to buy out a team and just buy out all best players stretching the difference between poorer clubs, now some players are going to play for saudi for big money that they never generate back just to make it more popular there, clubs that are part of City Group Ownership are pumped with money and suddenly become more competetive which feels like ruined sport. With NFL, which isn't really perfect, there is at least salary caps, drafts and much more opportunities to get to the top without hiring rich oil saudi prince which resonates with me way much more than now. Today maybe 5/8 clubs are always winning their leagues each year becasue of money, back in the days 00' till 10' you had at least tight competitions, legends were scattered across different teams, almost one each on the every team but today its like 5/6 teams in the world are just gathering best players completely blowing off any competition.

[@lill3lars]

Was part of this in my early 20s. The feeling is great being in the middle and part of the whole thing. But as I got older and brought my kids, sitting on the opposite side of the pitch getting the noise straight in the face/chest is insane enough too. Try to catch a game if your ever in Europe, but do some research. Not all teams and all games get the same atmosphere. The local derby’s are definitely the best.

[@TeIeGram-me-..Whelton_iwrocker]

Thanks for joining as a member of this channel; welcome to the Winner's Circle! I want us to discuss!!

[@StefanHaeger]

Hi Guy, good commend again! But there is a difference (in) between ULTRAs and HOOLIGANs for sure. I'm Stefan from a City calles "Dortmund", Germany. Unfortunutely we've löst the European Champion's League final against another club called "Real Madrid" ... from another country in Europe called Spain ... But, but, but: the were better. This club was better than our's ... Anybody in Dortmund says it in thius way! Please do it in nearly the same way - as you did before. I really appreciate your comments to Europe !! Stefan, Dortmund [Germany]

[@sergiok6980]

5:22 you paused on my LEGEND, my team OLYMPIACOS. "I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME IT GETS ME SICK IT TOOK MY BRAIN AWAY MASTURA (euphoria from drugs) LIKE YOU DOESN'T EXIST I'M LOOSING IT I'M GOING CRAZY (this is where the headbanging begins) LEGEND ole ole ooooooooooooo ole ole ooooooo ole ole ole ole. LEGEND ole ole oleoooooooo ole oleooooooo LEGEND I LOVE YOU."

[@teo_heel]

You're from Chicago, right? If that's true, you're not too far from Canadian border. Have you heard about Canadian Football League and Canadian Football as a sport? There's a reason why there are no NFL teams in Canada and it's because Canada have their own type of gridiron football. You should react to CFL. The best idea is to react to 110th Grey Cup game between Winnipeg Blue Bombers and Montreal Alouettes that happened last November. It's the final game of the season for CFL since its inception in 1958.

[@Hrossey]

Aston Villa fan here. We nail our colours to the mast 🇬🇧 and Thursday nights ARE Rangers nights. The Kings 11 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👑 They got King Billy, we’ve got Prince Willy 😉🍊🇬🇧❤️

[@PredCatcherTV]

Part Of Black Army Stockholm Sweden. Our team was created in 1891 my family have been supporting it since early 1900. its passion and you have no choice you either support aik or support aik theres nothing in between.

[@EagleEye666666]

Just buy watching YoutTube you can and will never really understand what is that all about. I never have been an Ultra though. But I know what's about them and why they are so important. My backgrounds: German from little town in eastern Germany. Our low class team was able to get far into the DFB Pokal beating higher class teams several times. Being in such Games in the "ultra" fan block is an experience you won't never forget. Especially when against all odds your team/your city somehow wins over and over. The hype is just INSANE. The atmosphere singing and dancing all together. I would like to compare it to times when in the middle ages army's marched onto the battlefields and you are standing with your fellows :) trying to motivate yourself for battle. This seems to me like a proper comparison. Later on I was even part of the security team, controlled thousands of people at the gates in search for any objects etc. later more chilled on tribune. So watching the game and even earning few EUR was quite nice. Funky times back than.

[@Kevensting]

Dude. Please watch 30 best Football Goals ever. Bei amazed. Also best of Messi (propably best Football Player ever), best of Ronaldo (Close to Messi - there is actually a Clash between Messi and Ronald regarding WHO IS better), best of Ibrahimovic , best of zidane - called "the white feather" because of His elegance in ball Handling. Also watch best Plays...you will start to love the Game. And try to See a big game in (Borussia) Dortmund to see the yellow wall. Propably a Champions League Game or a game against Bayern.

[@riccardocoletta2398]

When I was younger (between 15 to 25 years old) I attended every sunday to AS Roma matches (the most important team in Rome, even if it's not strogest in Italy, because northen richest and more politically connected teams, like Inter, Milan and Juventus, are usually stronger). I stopped when some extreme right wing groups took control of the most important part of the stadium For those years it was something special. Even if my team rarely won important trophies, the energy and the sense of community was great and you seems to know every and each person you ramdomly meet there... For a couple of hours you're in 50.000 people family fighting for the same goal

[@grigorov1914]

Watch the Derby Days series by Copa 90, it's amazing. If i had to pick one of the videos, i would certainly go for "The Biggest game of all time | Derby Days Superclasico". It's a bit long (55:40), but it's absolutely worth it.

[@nicoladc89]

The club doesn't finance it... well, not directly. But ultras make a lot of money, during the pandemic the Italian ultras aided with food and money to their local hospitals. In my city there is a saying that says "not even the dog wags its tail for free". There are ultras groups who have literally saved their clubs from bankruptcy. They earn money both from legal practices, such as selling merchandise, and from illegal practices (drug dealing for example). Obviously I'm talking about the leaders of the ultras, who are often simply criminal associations or something like that, there are many people who instead spend a lot of money to follow their club. Ultras are a plague on European football. I give you some example, the Feyenoord ultras damaged the Barcaccia Fountain (built in 1600 by Bernini, the architect of the St. Peter's Square in Vatican City) caused damages for 5.2 million of euros. The Galatasaray ultras killed a Leeds fan. Etc. etc. etc. And I'm talking about things happened recently, in the past it was very far worse. Football is continuative losing fans, just because it became basically only business, the cause of this fall is the Premier League that basically copied the American style, transforming the football clubs in financial clubs and sport in business. The most expensive player in 1975 was Paolo Rossi, price 1.75 million of UK Pounds. Napoli buy Maradona for 5M pounds. PSG bought Neymar for 222 million of euros, Chelsea bought Enzo Fernandez for 121M. In 2011 Andrea Pirlo, one of the best player in the world, earned 5 millions of euros, 2.7M less than the average salary of the Manchester City players, 15M less then De Bruyne, 67M less than Mbappè. In the past there were rich people who decided to buy a football club, they invested their money for fun (and for image). In fact, at the beginning, the rich people was the players, the clubs started paying the players when they started letting non-rich people play, people who had to earn for living and couldn't play football unless they were paid to do so. Those rich people did it for fun and for fame, they were interested in winning, they were interested in the sport, they were passionate of the sport, they were interested in playing well, becoming a great team, etc. No old owner got rich, usually they lost money. Or the people invested in their local team for the same reason. Today the top clubs are often managed by financial holding companies that use the clubs only as investments, they are not interested in winning, only in earning lots and lots and lots of money, they use the buying and selling of players for speculation, especially in the Premier League where teams buy and sell - internally - players at ridiculous prices. When they are not managed by holding companies, they are managed by Arab national funds that do Sportwashing, they don't care about football.

[@albinjohnsson2511]

Imo you can't get this in the US, for several reasons: 1) European football clubs are CLUBS. They are not just a team, they are multiple teams. Women's teams, huge youth academies, sometimes several sports. Often social outreach programs. 2) They are also social institutions. Most clubs are 100+ years old. They come with cultural, traditional, and political baggage, which creates tight bonds and pride. In some countries, the clubs are owned by their members. They have skin in the game in a different way. 3) Europe is smaller, size-wise, and more compact. There are often many clubs in the same city, and it's feasible to travel to away games. 4) European leagues are truly meritocratic. There are hundreds or even thousands of clubs competing in a big pyramid. That creates a "realness" to the sport. No coasting. Defeats hurt.

[@benderdelkarma9183]

The main reason US dont use to understand the Europe fandom it´s they think our countries are like federal states, when we have been in peace with each other just the 10% of our history as europe. In europe if the "buisness" get his hands to deep in to the football world WILL BE problems for sure, I mean we are talking about teams with MORE than 100 years of age, mine (Real Betis Balompié, Spain) was founded in 1907 for example.

[@CrossingWolfi]

I think the main difference to the US is that sports in the US is, for the most part, family friendly! In Europe thats less important.

[@SounderMom31]

4:50 These displays are called TIFOs and they are hand made/painted over weeks/months by Supporter Groups in secret, as to not spoil the reveal on match day. This TIFO was made by us, ECS, for a Seattle Sounders vs Portscum Timbers match.

[@Aatje21]

@11:17 I understand what you mean, but this is another level of "fun".... This is fighting. Throwing flares, coins, lighters, fireworks at the other team's fans. Comparing the US to basically any other country with fans/Ultras, in the US you can actually sit mixed wearing your jersey right next to the number 1 rival in their jersey. Do that here and security needs to come save your ass.

[@BryedArgga]

⚽️ *•◆I reeeeally recommend you to watch the rest of the UCL knockout stage. It'd be a good manner to get you into "THE THING", you know.★•* 🏆

[@Maxi_94]

You asked for our Ultra stories so you shall receive. I'm a fan of Hansa Rostock, a German 2nd Bundesliga team and last - and thereby reigning (suck it Dresden) - champions of East Germany. Our Ultras are rather right leaning in composition but outspokenly against bringing non-football related politics into the stadium - which is good for me as a trans antifa activist. 😅 Basically we are fully aware that just the next day some of us will stand on opposing sides of protests but for those 3 hours around a game nothing but the city, the club and the sport matters. I'd say our Ultras are quite renown and probably in the Top 5 in Germany. So my first game in the stadium was when I was 8 and me and my best friend were sitting just a block away from the just recently (re)formed Ultras and were in absolute awe. When we were 11 we stared to travel to matches regularly by train with some older boys from our village. Over time we seeked to be part of these crazy loud, creative and organized lads but of course still had a very romanticized view. That changed relatively quickly when I was 13 and started to go on the first away trips. We just got relegated to the 3rd League for the first time in our history and nobody knew how the club and fans would handle it. In the end the Ultras rented a whole train and we arrived with 2.000 people in Erfurt. I remember the smell of the flare the guy in front of me lit when Marcel Schied scored the winner for us like it was yesterday. Erfurt is another former East German club so there is some low-level rivalry and I tell you, winning in a rivals city is the best damn thing there is! 🙌 Just two away matches later - this time in Potsdam - I also finally understood the very heavy anti-police stance the Ultras took as I got pepper-sprayed for the first time in my life just for being in the wrong place. So after that point we basically became part of the whole thing: Traveling to as many games as possible, marching in corteos and protests, spending half a season outside the stadium in protest, helping with choreographies, throwing bananas at St.Pauli players, getting in some more squabbles with the cops, all that. Due to financial and private reasons I could only attend a handful of matches in the past years but I still view Ultras as one of the most important components of the game, especially by being the best organized voice the working class fans have. It's solely due to the German Ultra scenes that we still got affordable ticket prices, stands, no shady Gulf State investors and a deciding voice in club affairs. And yeah, the pictures speak for themselves honestly which is an awesome bonus. 😅

[@POpperoni75020]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 🔥 ❤💙SUPRAS AUTEUIL💙❤🔥 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@donmai79sge45]

I commented on your other Video you recently uploaded, so I don't repeater it here 😜 If you come to Europe, go to Atalanta or come to Frankfurt if you lucky to get a Ticket. Avoid the stands I would recommend. Don't cheer for the awayteam. Avoid Lazio, Marseille, Napoli its not save there. I am always happy, if people understand what the game means to the Fans, the supporters.

[@s7umpf]

Bundesliga (German 1. League) competition is basically dead due to financial reasons. "Bayern" (Munich) hast almost double the money per season than the next rivaling team (some of which are already corporation-owned) and they won the last 12(?) national titles. I stopped watching.. and therefore counting. Going to a match and experience the stadium atmosphere is still great, but not worth the money anymore for my taste; while Bundesliga is still comparably cheap to England. There is a general decrease in popularity and interest society-wide, but it is still very big and completely unmatched.

[@monicacarolina6480]

I get it, it seems weird for non Europeans...but the atmosphere in the crowd IS electric and awesome. What you do not see is that children and women are really protected and it's a joy to watch a game live with all of us. Our history and culture are so rich and old, it's embedded in all of us. You do not change clubs, you will always support your club, the players. But yeah if a club or coach messes up, there will be "fire" The money fans put in football is huge and we want to be heard😂 There is a lot of politics involved as well. I went many times to big derbies between Partizan and Red Star for example (Belgrade) Partizans are supporting socialism, partisans legacy, left wing and conservative, Red Star is about Serbia's former royal house and more right wing. Where you belong is most often decided by family traditions and opinions. You just do not switch The atmosphere in the stadium is just WOW.

[@John-i8k9n]

A lot of clubs in Europe are owned by the fans. I follow Bohemians football club here in Ireland. Every time you buy a ticket for the game you are buying shares in the team.

[@seanmcconnell414]

Some of these clips are from MLS (Seattle Emerald City Supporters @4:49 and Portland Timbers Army @2:01 specifically)

[@nevalelapena]

As italian i have mad respect for American crowds , the way an NBA game become a show for fans but also families, with kiss cam, lookalike cam, money shot... al those things are wonderful... here i went to a serieA game just once and that's NOT a family event, except for some high end seats maybe, but for the biggest part that's war... keep your eyes open, walk straight

[@teo_heel]

BTW. About fans of soccer... here in Russia we have a thing called Fan ID... all active fans are against it, attendance figures went down from times when there was no control over fans. And the Premier League suffers from that.

[@Obi-J]

If you want to see how a European crowd differs to a US crowd watching the same sport, try checking out Euro-League basketball crowds compared to NBA crowds.

[@zagar_]

If you did not yet watched the movie Greenstreet Hooligans / or/ Football Factory .. I recomend, rly true stories of an Ultras life. Cheers ! just 1 note.. in EU we are usualy on South Side of the stadium, and if not derby or important game. only our quarter cheers ... others claps and yel on judge..

[@mattlowe9675]

I think on the point about authenticity, you have to understand Football Clubs over here rarely started as a commercial entity like the franchise system in US sports. Almost all clubs over here started in the late 1800s as community teams, they hardly ever move from where they started, there's no real idea of 'franchise relocation' so they have 100s of years of history in the one town, in the local community etc....more like College Football in the US. What ultras dislike is, as the sport has become more commercial, those local communities are often priced out of going to see their own team, because it's all about money now. Teams like Manchester United probably have 5000 tourist fans at every home game, rich folk that fly in from around the world to watch and pay $400 for tickets, meaning the local kid with no money can't afford to see the games anymore. In Germany, to try and protect against this, they have the 50+1 rule, which says 50% of the voting shares in the club, plus one more vote, has to be owned by 'club members' (aka fans) so that those fans retain a controlling stake. This means German clubs tend to be more run for the benefit of the fans and local community. The downside is that this makes it harder for them to compete with the heavily commercialized teams like those in the Premier League, who have way more money and rich billionaire owners.

[@MrDaryn]

For over 40 years now i haven't missed a game of my team Feyenoord (Rotterdam, Netherlands). So for over 40 years this is my nr 1 passion/way of life. And yes i'm married and have 2 kids. But when Feyenoord plays, no matter what i'm there. And so are my daughters now aswell 😂😂

[@Bente52]

If you are ever in Copenhagen, I will take you to a FC Copenhagen match, where we will be standing in the "Sektion 12" FCK's Ultra section.(Also shown a couple of times in this video) I can guarantee a good atmosphere and plenty of beer ;)

[@christopheb.6121]

Incredible too here in Marseille.

[@larsderbar2887]

This was couple years ago when the Team from my city FC Zurich went to London for a Game in the Europa League which is the second highest International Cup after Champions league. They did a fan march towards the stadium with around 3000+ People. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYG8nIKYYt19Z5o

[@evansaleeby5186]

You keep referring to Europe vs the US but its not just Europe its all over the world, including here in the USA. A lot of the shots in that video were from MLS games here in the states. Some of the TIFO action in the US rivals anywhere in the world.

[@Turlifutz]

If you started on COPA90 why not make it right and react to '900 years of hate'? This will definitely put European mindset into perspective.