Izzy Posen and Frieda Vizel LIVE ZOOM | A Conversation on Post-Haredi life, Identity and Relations

I had the great pleasure of doing a live zoom conversation with fellow former-Hasid [OTD] and professional thinker Izzy Posen. Izzy is a prolific personality on Twitter, where he is eager to encourage nuanced, honest dialog among us ex-Haredim as well as with the communities we were raised in. This live zoom was an opportunity to ask what we need to leave behind when we leave, what obligations we have to our former worlds, and what we can understand about each others' journeys.
If you were on the call, thanks for joining! If you missed it, here's the video recording, have a watch!
You can follow Izzy on Twitter here:
/ posenizzy
And make sure to check out Izzy's KZbin Channel here: / @izzyposen2092
Thanks for watching! I am hopeful there will be more opportunities for live video events in the future.
Make sure to subscribe to my youtube. For more of my work check out friedavizel.com.

[@familygotlieb2897]

The following is related to the topic of perfection mentioned in the video. Someone once asked the Lubavitcher Rebbe, “Why is it that no one is perfect? The Rebbe answered, “When a person is perfect and has achieved everything, he has nothing else to live for. There must be imperfection so that he will have something to strive for tomorrow.”

[@FriedaVizelBrooklyn]

very nice :)

[@dorisporch2733]

thank you so much... what a valuable conversation. I have lived my life a million miles away from your communities, yet so much of what you have discussed has been very meaningful to me...

[@henryfitch8710]

Hi Izzy. I'm glad we were able to meet briefly with my niece at my dad's house one Christmas. My dad has since died. You are a brave man and I hope you find contentment in your life.

[@Balzac241]

The more I liste to tour vidéos, the more I find you fascinating! You seem to be very connected to yourself and very détermined to stay true to Who you are and that is very brave on any world! Best luck to you!

[@FriedaVizelBrooklyn]

such a sweet comment. I am a little knuckle headed, ha ha!

[@Balzac241]

Sometimes (and m'y first language is French, so maybe I dont get Fully all the meanings of the expression you used.But I would Say Thay sometimes what we consider a weakness for us might be quite the opposite when we use it wisely 😊

[@zeevdoob2078]

Dear Freida and Izzy. I understand why some people find impossible to stay in Satmar, Gur... but instead of just asking them self "Should I live" they forget to ask "where should I go?" Do I want to live a Jewish life?, Is it important for me that my eineklech will be Jewish? If yes, then you have to look for such community.

[@Michaela1942]

Thank you both for this program. As a Reform Jew who has little or no experience of the ultra orthodox (a way of life I find a bit unnerving), both your posts are eye openers. I feel sad that both of you have had to experience pain and negativity in both worlds and wish you both all the best. BTW, I've always gone by the saying, "Two Jews, three opinions." There's a place for us all in the Jewish experience/faith/way of life. The trick is to find it. All best,

[@geriattrique7141]

This is such a fascinating yet thoughtful conversation. Thank you for sharing!

[@pinksakuraxo6677]

Such an interesting discussion. As someone who enjoys learning about other cultures, this was informative. It’s nice to connect with your culture, even if you don’t agree with all of the rituals. Judaism can be interpreted in creative and different ways; that’s the beauty of it!

[@joekay3150]

Guys mixed up so finds it difficult

[@margaretshepard9466]

I live in a progressive agnostic/atheist community, where questioning of everything is welcome. It is good to hunt for this kind of support because it is there. Still I feel a that you two underscore that we cannot control outcomes….not to give agency to God, but to reality. It is not benign or antagonistic but just what is. It is not easy, but a path or journey that allows us Tom look at all spiritual or even religious ideals!

[@SharonRosen]

Frieda, your videos are amazing because they're so informative, interesting, and educational. Would you ever consider re-releasing an annotated version of this? With your pre-recorded videos you often explain things in between segments that are very helpful. In this video you're both using many Yiddish terms exclusive to the Hassidic community I've never even heard of before! This is such a neat conversation to be a part of, I just hate that I'm missing so much of the meaning. - Thank you!

[@alexandervanlohen4229]

This was an awesome discussion - I really hope there will be part 3, 4, 5…! Thank you so much Frieda for your work, this was again very insightful!

[@tiferetspace]

so many excellent points raised for myself, from a different background but with plenty of similarities. thank you for helping me feel less lonely on my own derech 💜

[@MusicaAngela]

This is so fascinating! I’m fascinated by Izzy’s comment talking about about the Seder stories that “these were people reading their own texts”! What a good reason to nowadays be reading stories and poems in celebrations where everyone can come together to read texts from the wisest people who have ever lived from and all cultural backgrounds ancient and contemporary.

[@rivkahmiri513]

Yes whose to say what fix and change. It's all individual situation. Objective vs. Subjective. There is extreme view (black and white) on each side.I agree so much with Izzy. It doesn't have to be black and white romanticizing vs. demonizing. There has always been grey for me!

[@tzvigrossman1872]

There is a certain irony when someone leaves a fundamentalist frum community only to discover they have entered a crazy world of woke fundamentalism secularists...

[@amyt2400]

@Tzvi Great comment. 👍🏽

[@caroledrury1411]

This is such an interesting discussion. I can’t imagine wondering if you need to cut out your entire experience of childhood and upbringing no matter what the situation. So I am perplexed by the implication that this is actually even a question. What I like about Frida is that she seems so embrace of embracing of her community even though she’s not in it anymore. The inclusiveness is what attracts me the most on either side.

[@franceslock1662]

I love Naomi’s comments about how untouchable Islam now is and the experience of secular shunning for asking the wrong questions. Dominant culture has it’s blind spots, holy cows and taboo subjects. You romanticise secular freedom, then you encounter hypocrisy. If you think critically or dare to question, you are quickly put in your place.

[@rosannashe6313]

so true in the USA and especially in the last few years

[@familygotlieb2897]

Frieda, even though you have left your Chareidi community, you still maintain a connection to it. And many others who have left their Chareidi communities do so as well. This reminds me of something that I read in the biography of Reb Aryeh Levine, (“A Tzaddik in Our Time”) by Simcha Raz. Reb Aryeh heard this from Rav Chaim Berlin, who lived in Jerusalem in his later years. Rav Chaim, when reciting the Song of Songs on Passover, was always especially emotional when reciting the verse, “ "Behold, you are beautiful, my love; behold, you are beautiful; your eyes are doves" (Shir Hashirim 1:15). Rashi quotes the interpretation of the Sages that this verse, refers to Israel after they have sinned, that the Al-mighty retains His love for us even after we have sinned, encouraging us to return to Him. Rav Chaim said that he had always wondered about the reference to doves in the verse. He learned the meaning, the Rav related to Reb Aryeh, from a story that occurred to him while he lived yet in Europe. He had once been asked to circumcise a baby in utmost secrecy. The father of the baby explained the reason for the strange request. The father explained that he lived in an exclusively non-Jewish neighborhood and was believed to be a non-Jew, and it would be very dangerous for him should the neighbors find out that he was a Jew. The Rav came or was taken to the man’s home. No one was there, for the servants had been sent away. The Rav quietly performed the circumcision and left. A few days later, the man came again and thanked the Rav, and the Rav took the opportunity to ask him a question. Considering how the man lived, for the man’s house was full of non-Jewish icons, what had driven him to so strongly want to have a circumcision for his son? The man answered that although he had done whatever he had done, he still wanted his son to have the right to know where he came from. Perhaps when he grows up, he will want to be a Jew. The Talmud teaches us (Bava Basra 23) that the dove will never go so far from her nest that she cannot return. She constantly looks over her shoulder and ascertains that she can go back whenever she wants to. When she runs away from her nest, she always makes sure that she can still see it. And so does the Jew. Even when he runs away from his roots, he tries to make sure that he can still see them. And so is it with the entire Jewish people.

[@pinksakuraxo6677]

You make some good points! People can still be Jewish and respect their traditions without being super religious, if it’s not a life someone wants to live. I’m Jewish and I don’t believe in following every single rule in the Torah, but I enjoy celebrating the Jewish holidays, interacting with my Jewish friends, and learning about different types of Judaism!

[@mariamd2243]

I went OTD 35 years ago

[@mariamd2243]

I have 3 friends who are about the same age who left to even earlier than I. OTD is way more than 20 years

[@mindybeller6011]

Wonderful conversation. I think the themes you are discussing are both specific to the Haredi circumstance and Universal to the human experience of individuation from a family, marriage, movement, tradition, cult, or community (collective for short). The more rigid the collective, the more joy it offers to those who fit perfectly and the more suffering it offers to those whose authentic selves fit least. For the latter, the decision to prioritize self over other(s)--that is, the decision to leave--is both necessary and excruciating. Alternatively, the decision to ignore self over other(s)--that is, the decision to stay--can be soul-crushing. My observation is that these themes arise everywhere to varying degrees. I also follow the channel of a man who left the fundamentalist polygamous Mormon sect (FLDS) and his love for his community and his clarity about needing to leave is similar to the sentiments I hear from you. For some, it is not leaving a religion but a dysfunctional family system that evokes something similar. And in the ideal scenario, it is simply a teenager/young adult individuating from a loving accepting family. Even in that scenario, there are moments of pain of loss on both sides (as a mother of teens and young adults, I describe these pains as a second labor). But the growth in moving from choosing either glorification/vilification to embracing the nuance in the before and after is Universal. And the fact that there is no recipe or blanket advice that can be given to one who feels called to leave rings true. Thank you for sharing. Here is Growing Up in Polygamy for interest: www.youtube.com/@GrowingUpinPolygamy

[@johannayaffe2647]

As a balae teshuva who's gone the other way, not into hassidism, but into being observant, I know that it was the answer for me, but I certainly couldn't live in a "black" community....however nice the individual people may be... and during the 2006 war I stayed in such a community, but I certainly didn't fit in, for a start I didn't fit the dress code, even tho I was tznuit.. I would suffocate somewhere like that.. however I think that secular families who have members who become "meshugah frum" can also find it hard to deal with, feel betrayed and abandoned, and the newly frum person has to learn a whole new culture, language, behaviours etc., but the difference is that they still have access to the secular world they left, and can bring some of that culture and experience into the religious community, and that in and of itself can help make changes in the religious world.. not to mention that if the baale teshuva person felt they made a mistake they can always return to their secular life ( with difficulty, especially if they have children, but at least they understand that world) personally I believe that everyone should have freedom of choice, and I regularly give financially to the Hillel organization here in Israel (similar to footsteps) because I want their members to have the same freedom to choose their life path as I have had. Btw I assume you know that Harry Potter has been translated into Yiddish. I'm just not sure who the audience is, given that I'm sure the hassidic community wouldn't consider it suitable reading material...and a secular Yiddish speaking public could probably read it in English..

[@stephenfisher3721]

Izzy Posen asks if Hasidus will change in light of all the questioning and OTD'ers. I heard a lecture given by Nehemia Polen in the 1990's but one thing he said really surprised me and stayed with me. He talked about a new version of Hasidus in Poland coming from within the group and its leaders that was sprouting but the Holocaust destroyed it. Now the Hasidus of Rebbe Teitelbaum was shaped by a reaction to the Holocaust and the "hadash assur min hatorah" philosophy of the Chasam Sofer so it is a much different environment and context than Poland between the World Wars. It would be really interesting to ask Nehemia Polen about this today, both about Poland of the past and Satmar today.

[@sulis9545]

Everything has a creator . It’s easier to imagine there’s no creator so you can act free without any guilt or responsibility.

[@lyndaalterio1027]

I really like Izzy - he's interesting and very funny!! I loved this live - honestly very, very interesting and I hope you have Izzy on again, along with the men who also chimed in - and Naomi whom I really love. Thank you.

[@shifralowen]

There’s another difference, in the stomach pain you said you have when someone tells you they want to leave. I user to have that, until I realized people don’t have to follow my footsteps in order to have a better life. There are so many ways now that were not available before when we left.

[@shifralowen]

The assumption that if you’re not young then there’s no point in thinking of leaving because there’s no life for you outside -that’s uninformed. I know people who left at a later age than me and have a way better life. (Obviously they went through the חבלי לידה and also it didn’t take overnight, it took time)

[@Krrle4250]

I think there is a growing appetite in the reform community for connecting to Yiddishkeit. I think our parents saw it as connected to their parents and grandparents and weren't interested, but new generations are interested and would like to learn more about these traditions.

[@worldsnacked7150]

Izzy's closing comments are beautiful.

[@phil3924]

Judaism would die out without religious Jews. Performing "meaningless" rituals as an atheist would get old and your children will see that and stop the charade.

[@franny5059]

I LOVE your videos, learn so much from you and admire Judism and the traditions. I have incorporated the 24 hour no electronic devices and it really is a good practice because you get to bond with the family and give your brain a rest because I find that even opening my emails is like a full-time job..

[@peterdalyy3542]

Thank god there is more to hasdic life then eating cholont on Thursday night.

[@FriedaVizelBrooklyn]

Is chollent that bad?

[@udhe4421]

@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn . Chulent isn't bad. It's actually delicious if you know how to prepare it the right way. By goiyam chulent is basically chili just with a few tweaks

[@judithabrams2016]

Thank Hashem someone finally said it. You do not have to throw the baby out with the bath water. You can find certain customs that you grew up with and speak to you and keep them. Even though you don’t presently connect it to belief in Hashem you are not a hypocrite. It really isn’t everything or nothing. Enjoy what you can from your past But discard the negative.

[@SLICK-GLN]

You all need a support group for those who want to leave .Be honest with those who want to leave.

[@ayrsine]

What I would like to hear more about is what they did with their spiritual beliefs. There are a lot of OTD that go atheist. Why atheist? Thank you Frieda and Izzy for your courage in doing and sharing.

[@franciskakocifaj344]

I was raised roman catholic. In my country over 90% percent are roman catholic and more than 5% are orthodox christians so it's very homogenous community in which I couldn't see myself a part of. I decided to leave when I was 19 and to live non religious life. I caused a lot of pain to my family and feel very sorry for that. Somewhat I can comprehend your stories, although my upbringing was not that extreme. I've lost many friends and relationships when I decided to stop going to church and live religiously. It's really hard to live and to think freely when almost everyone you meet has that dogmatic world view and is almost instantly judging you based of your belifs. Through my life I've also met a lot of atheist and agnostic people who stick to negative opinions and hate on all religions and people who participate in such cultures. I again can not be a part of that kind of opinion. For me being a part of something bigger, trusting someone, having some kind of comfort in what you're doing is a powerful and beautiful feeling. this interviews gave me another perspective to think about and some sort of hope and idea of not rejecting everything from my past but embracing everything and everyone that made me who I am and living the best life I possibly can make for myself. Thank you!

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

Would going to a local Chabad House be a reasonable compromise for holidays? They don’t ask if you have driven a car or rode on a bus for Shabbat.

[@jeffbrochstein5191]

Compromise for what?

[@kaashee]

What does this question mean ?

[@Kosher_Philly_CheeseSteak]

Tamara, I was thinking THE EXACT SAME THING - for the entire 1 hour of Izzy and Frieda's conversation! And I thought, what about a middle road (all the levels of Jewish life & being involved in Chabad)?

[@irothman9269]

Beautiful idea. There are so many other communities. Satmar was built on black and white because it was their way of coping post war

[@dmsalomon]

For people who have grown up in other communities, they may not find Chabad represents the kind of yiddishkeit they grew up with. I respect Chabad, but it's not culturally the way I was raised or practice today.

[@zeevdoob2078]

You have said some good points, But! Regarding Hashem. 1.I would say ween our dawening more when Hashem does. (look Jacobson comment) 2. There are a lot devoted frum and scollar people like Rambam, Hagro, Uman (nobel price winner) and many cetra. 3. Judaism is mostly Orthopractise rather than Orthodoxy. 4. I left chassidic community and moved to Nathional-Torah-Frum community (in Israel). If you look both to experience Yiddishkeit and be able to study in academy and offer the same for your children you can find many frum communities like Yeshiva-university and cetra.

[@susanschaffer6661]

Fascinating ❤

[@shifralowen]

There were some things that Izzy said, that deeply bothered me, and I believe he contradicted himself a moment afterwards. But I don’t have the headspace and the words to articulate my thoughts in English right now on that so I’ll have to leave that for when I will have the opportunity. What fascinates me, is how vastly different my own experience is from yours Frieda. Because the rosy community is actually one of my fondest memories (of course up until I became « non-Kosher ») and actually

[@shifralowen]

for me, the googly eyed child does not break my heart because I have big hopes for them that they will find a way to follow their heart in some way shape or form. However, the zealots are the one’s I have deep pity for, because I was once like that. And it’s surprising that this part of the harm is rarely spoken about: the deep guilt and fear that is indoctrinated in kids from an early age. Most zealots I know (those who are serious about it, not the hypocrites who act like it) are people who live in constant fear that כל ישראל ערבים means they will be punished for everyone’s sins unless they do everything in their power to stop them from sinning. And, in the same time it feels like a solace to do this ‘holy work’ because you get brownie points with God, and you desperately need it! (Since these people were taught that being human is a sin, so they have such a huge burden of sins from making human mistakes & they can feel they always have so much to repent for - so the zealous side - doing the holy work- is kind of like compensating a little for that.

[@werethewilsons]

I love Freida! Blessings from your Christian friends in Cleveland ❤

[@Lorna7777]

Oh Izzy 😮I am not Jewish, but a born again Christian and read the Bible almost everyday. Please I beseech you, please there is a God and you are his chosen people. I love the Jewish people I would die for them and that love was given to me by God almighty through Yeshua. It’s not religion it’s a personal relationship with God almighty. I love listening to this Frieda and God bless you both 🙏

[@ycaceres3357]

This was nicely said

[@joemoore9066]

I would have a,hard time to so that " the world" has anything to offer. I believe tv, radio, etc. are empty in and of themselves.

[@shelleyshub3593]

Izzy Posen, my maternal Booby was born and brought up in Stamford Hill. She emigrated with my Zida to South Africa with 3 kids and pregnant with my Mom.

[@MS-tr8go]

Have you both ever tried looking into different parts of Judaism? Chasidish is not the only one. I understand that you were too cooped up in the satmar world but why leave all the way? Speak to an open minded rabbi and he will understand you and explain answers to all your questions he will never throw you off for asking questions. You can date normally, not have an arranged marriage and be worldly and still be religious. The torah is true happiness you just have to be taught it correctly. Just remember Hashem loves every jew how ever far you have turned away from Him he's always waiting for you to turn back. and when you're going through troubles you just need to reach out to him you can pray in what ever language he's always listening and sometimes it's scary how clearly you see the hand of Hashem after you pray.

[@Tali5899]

I suspect these individuals had chasidism or yiddishkeit stuffed down their throats which made them run for the hills. Really sad. Doesnt have to be everything or nothing.

[@heatherwhite2788]

I was raised fundamentalist Christian and there’s a part of me that could wish no one was living with fundamentalism. But it’s a stage in the human experience that we can’t and shouldn’t eradicate. You have to work through needing all the answers, needing some one to tell you what to do, etc.

[@FriedaVizelBrooklyn]

I feel you Heather

[@Kosher_Philly_CheeseSteak]

שלום, שיחה מגניבה וחשובה! אדווה סמנת"ה

[@ariebrons7976]

This is verry interesting, and I can agree on many points. In the Sovjet Union all religions where banned for being child abuse. Then Glasnost came and, now all religions are permitted. People fell for everey charming man with a bushy beard; Whilst the Duma succeeded in supressing open religion. It failed to teach it citizens about manipulative tactics. Once I tried to become more observant. ~My mum is an observant Jew, my father is an atheist~ And at first it was really fun. Keeping the Sabbath is an amazing experience. But slowly something more sinister appeared. Whilst I am secular my native language is Hebrew. The Hebrew shiurim are different than the English. A lot more fascism, hate, hellfire and brimstone. This disturbed me and I began asking a Chabad Rabbi about this. I was told to quit consuming secular and Christian media. It's too confusing. Later I learned that Chabad tells it's Rabbi's to play dumb when asked such questions. 'Before Chasidic movement came, Jewish religion was taught like a stick: you must do this if not God is gonna punish you, the holy Baal saw that a lot of Jews are leaving the religion because of this type of strictness He taught us that you can do it with a Glet, with a pet, so just the opposite' (The Orthodox community of New York documentary) kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4LRn6tqgr6cn6c In other words: Chasids Don't ask, Don't tell. According to Dr.Steven Hassan this is the I of the B.I.T.E model. 'the group gives partial or false information to new converts' ~Freedom of mind in the chapters about, the BITE model, undue influence, and exit counceling~

[@FriedaVizelBrooklyn]

Interesting comment.

[@shifralowen]

And the assumption that when a parent leaves, the children are harmed, is the old scare tactic the community has used for decades and it became a self fulfilling prophecy for many. But i know plenty cases where the opposite is true. The parent who left gave inadvertently permission for each child to have a better life. The fact that they couldn’t do fafrumt shidduchim worked out better for them and those children who chose to leave later, had the support of their parent outside who took them in with open arms! Thats a luxury that Izzy, you or me never had. Another thing that’s important to consider are the repercussions if the parent stayed. The trauma of having a parent who gives up their life and lives miserably in the name of protecting the children is something that has been statistically proven as a burden on a child with detrimental effects (in more than one way). Let alone if the marriage is dysfunctional, then for sure it’s a good thing to save the children from continuing to live in that toxic environment. Last point: there’s a benefit that kids who have otd parents have that I think should be pointed out. They are afforded more leniency in school, because the goal there is to try convincing the children that it’s better to stay inside the community so there’s an effort to make good for them so that they shouldn’t wish to follow in their otd parent’s footsteps... So either way it can be a win for the child when their parent lives a self-determined life. Because when the child wants to stay they get royal treatment and if they want to leave they can have a loving parent who can support them

[@mariekatherine5238]

This comment is late, but I know of several instances of grandchildren returning to Yiddishkeit whose parents left well before they were born. Sometimes it’s because they have not been shunned by the grandparents or kept from their grandparents.

[@desertpriere]

He talked of the fantasy of a utopian community. This also exists in the Christian world-that somehow if we devote our energy to worshiping God around the clock we will be happy, loved, free, rich, and more powerful than less religious christians. And I wonder if Israel is meant to be manmade fantasy utopia land until messiah comes.

[@AC-qk9tk]

I think you should open a new community called Bi- Curious Joel.

[@jekyljacobson]

1. I just love "intellectuals" who openly state they don't believe in God. It is so easy for me to then ask them, who is this God you don't believe in... What I mean is that they know nothing about Him, yet reject Him. 2. Throwing around theories about who Chazal were and quoting a few lines of Talmud, is just good enough to feed one's ego and makes one not an authority on the matter. 3. It is certainly OK to struggle with beliefs and try to make sense of it all (and understanding that some things are above our pay-grade and constrained by human limitations), but foolish to just dismiss it because it is beyond one's comprehension. 4. Rather than running like cowards (that's what cowards do), why not dedicate a lifetime searching for God's existence and accumulating enough knowledge to get as close as humanly possible to the goal of תכלית הידיעה שלא נדע? I agree that Ba'al Shem Tov "stories" are just that: silly stories. Even many things mentioned in חז״ל are anecdotal, mythical exaggerations and allegory. The commentators say as much in several places.

[@armchairguru1921]

Isn't the hardest part of leaving being rejected by your family, leaving your family? I would think you could keep a number of traditions, if you wish, outside of the community.

[@vickiecrouch6041]

In my own view, it seems black and white because it is black and white. If you leave, don't put pressure on those who stay to accept you and your choices. Its a bit like having children and expecting everyone else to babysit them and being offended if relatives don't want to. Not well phrased but an honest opinion.

[@browser250]

As articulate as Frieda was, Izzy was just as inarticulate and I could not make head or tail on any of his sentences, had absolutely no idea what he was trying to say, and I suspect neither had he.

[@youtoomf]

אטסגעארבעט די מידות. Loved that lol

[@benwiener8920]

You wane say it's easier for you to not let your mind thinking about god that would sound more true But to say you believe there is no God please make sense

[@edw8889]

57 and catholic for California.

[@dnnrod1807]

I understand that this guy loves his family ...I do get that..and I don't know if he doesn't get to see them at all or if they choose and do not want to see him, but I do know other children (grown) that have left chassidic communities and they still go to their parents house and visit and talk all the time and their parents are still in the chassdic community there are even videos here on youtube of it. I am actually baffled as to why this guy would 1. want to even stay in a community that completely revolves its life around God everything from the way they dress, interact, pray, eat, raise kids, live when he does not believe in God?? and 2. Why would he think they should want him in the community?? They shouldn't, he does not even believe in GOD??? God is their whole life...we should not be unevenly yoked, we should love people no matter what they do or do not believe and we should pray for them and for him to T'shuva...but yea...I can see why they wouldn't want him there and honestly he should be there if he doesn't believe in God he has nothing in common with anyone there then.

[@heatherwhite2788]

Eff the silencers, wherever they may be! Pretty sure censorious is a word 😉

[@al2lewy]

Sorry but to my understanding when you describe having no choice if you'll live the community you grew in so it can only become a one way choice without any oppositions afterwards to keep in touch. That is the case of so many people over the planet that left as well the world they grew in without any contacts possible. I mean that it is such of an immense reality and even more an other taboo.

[@youtubefaves6365]

Tenets… the word is tenets not tennents

[@melanie18white]

The Sad part, that in NOT your fault, and is 100% the Chasidish Rabbis and Chasidish community’s Fault, very wrong of them, is that they make you think that the stringencies, Rigidities, Chumrahs, are Halacha, and they are not! So you think that if you don’t want to do all the “cleaning under the tables” and other extreme cleanings for Pesach, that it’s not really Pesach and so might as well just do nothing. Fact is, the actual gala has are very very permissive, you just never learned that. You can put matzoh in soup, you don’t need to clean at all beyond how you would ordinary clean any day, you can have a completely enjoyable fun Seder, there is so much beyond the strict Chasidus that is vast and open to you

[@melanie18white]

The Halacha is actually much much more lax than they wrongly forced and enforced. That was very wrong of them. All the costume they wear, none of it is Halacha. It’s NOT actually off the Derech to wear a t shirt and jeans. That is so important to know. They make you think that but it’s them who are wrong. It is Satmarism they keep. You can be ON THE DERECH but just not Satmar.

[@ABritInNY]

Clearly you are ignorant of exactly WHY our particular minhagim came about. In actuality Minhagim can have more of a binding effect than than the opinions of certain halachic authorities and for good reasons. It's a big world and conditions are not the same universally. Without even getting into "Vochai bohem," learn about the Chayei Adam and his attempt to classify potatoes as kitniyot and how his position on the matter was destroyed with ridicule by the Divrei Chaim, (or Zay nisht kein ibberfrimmer! Which is kinda funny from the Divrei Chaim 😉 )

[@melanie18white]

I would ask both of you are aware that outside of Chasidish community are myriad other communities with Practicing Jews who have grown up going to modern Jewish day schools learning a secular curriculum and go to college, are lawyers, Doctors, live a completely modern life, go to movies, sports, if you’ve ever seen just plain traditional Jews, who live without the Chasidus dogma, have you gone to other Shuls such a “Young Israel” where you are in the secular world while being a practicing Jew in t-shirt and jeans

[@otherwise10000]

As someone with a similar background and who has gone through a similar process I feel compelled to point out the elephant in the room being ignored when speaking about chasidism minus god/belief self-reproduction. Despite the breathless enthusiasm and the sense of doing something "new" this is actually a kind of old thing, not just in judaism but in minority religious communities all over the world. The simple fact is that none of these efforts actually result in the building of a lasting community. If they ever establish one at all, it becomes one in perpetual decline. But mostly it just becomes a form of recreation like a book club. But if it did ever become a real community, and that certainly seems to be an aspiration of some involved, why would you ever expect anything other than rejection from the faithful. You complain about lack of acceptance but then eagerly talk about creating a community that can only exist at the expense of the one you left, both in terms of members and in terms of ideological foundation. The black and white stance is appropriate. Haredim know, or intuit, that they have a real community (and not just a social circle) and you have meetup.com and pub trivia. And they also know, or intuit, that what you and I might call a shared fiction is what enables said community to exist and reproduce itself. And they also know, or intuit, that it is a matter of simple community self-preservation to reject those who would destroy this shared fiction (actively or passively).

[@mariekatherine5238]

Excuse my response to an old comment, but I’ve seen in many insular religious communities, that if those who are otd unite, it only lasts so long, two generations at most. The problem is that the main thing holding them together is, “What’s wrong with the place we left,” or, “Aren’t those people horrid? Hypocrites? Ignorant?” I’ve been there and done that, twice. It didn’t work.

[@youtoomf]

נוווו אפשר א שידוך 😜

[@benwiener8920]

So you really believe that you have your heart beating 24/7 by her self???? And what happens when it stops working????? Like really you don't believe there is a god???? And how happened this whole coved 19? By it self??? Oh yeah really??? Please make sense...

[@KN-ob8hm]

Adonai has blinded him for his rebellion...only fool says there is no Gd!

[@udhe4421]

Ben wiener @ I can't believe that this izzy posen doent believe in hashem. When he is referring to God, maybe he is referring to the Christian God? Bec that already makes sense to say that he doesn't believe in the Christian God. What do you think?

[@JRock1900]

1:16:05 If you “believe” in Darwinism than hate, fighting and war is the way to move forward May the “best human” win Sick!!!

[@berniemargolis4288]

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Darwinism. The fighting and war is against one's environment, not against other members of the species. When there are prolonged droughts, the community that develops ways to continue growing crops despite the lack of water is the one that perseveres. When predators are prevalent, the communities that learn to cooperatively trap and eliminate the predators survive. The winning humans are the ones who correctly identify and confront their adversaries, not the ones who pin the blame on each other and squander their resources on meaningless conflict.

[@primrose6358]

I find this conversation to come from remarkably self centered people. If you wish to have something different than start your own movement. I have lived through many changes I. Society and I can tell you that the more liberal people become, the more small minded and authoritarian they become.

[@JRock1900]

1:07:30 Fraidy just think what if your beautiful son will leave you and won’t want to have anything to do with you, and come out screaming that you brought him up wrong, and your way of life and the choices you made gave him trauma How would you feel?

[@berniemargolis4288]

As a father, I understand that pain all too well. The fact remains, however, that the blame for such a situation remains mostly with the parents, not the child. Bottling up the trauma and continuing to live a life that is entirely dicatated by the parents' choices only continues to harm the child who isn't suited for that life. Acknowledging the trauma's existence allows the healing to begin. There may be remorse on both ends, but ideally there's also forgiveness, respect, and compassion.

[@JRock1900]

All I would say to you guys, if you struggling about Yiddishkeit is one thing, but don’t be a חוטא ומחטא את הרבים Izzy is trying to bring others down with him, that’s terrible!!!! I hope he turns around What I don’t understand is why is Fraida going along with this, she seemed to be smarter than that???

[@martonbraun3634]

איזי איז כשר גערעכט ווען ער זאגט דאס זאכן ענדערן זיך אין די חרדישע וועלט אבער דערווייל טראץ די גרויסע נומערן דאס איז דערווייל בלויז א פרינג׳-קולטור פון יוגנט וועלכע שטרעבן פאר אביסל א לויזערן סארט אידישקייט.

[@peterdalyy3542]

The whole point surely with Judaism is a basic belief in God if you don't believe why bother

[@FriedaVizelBrooklyn]

A lot of people believe that there is value in the traditions and age old customs even if they don't believe in God.

[@peterdalyy3542]

@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn thanks for your response to my comment and that you took the time to answer, first I would like to say I love your videos, but I don't really understand the value of traditional practice with out belief thanks again and regards from Jerusalem

[@berniemargolis4288]

@@peterdalyy3542 I held your point of view as a child because I was absolutely certain that God established those traditions and handed them down to our ancestors. After growing older, learning history and coming into contact with Jews from many different communities, I came to realize that these traditions were established by people and that they've been edited over the centuries by countless Rabbinical councils and convocations. So even if I don't believe in God, I still believe that there was wisdom in our ancestor's teachings and value in their experiences. That having been said, I'm also aware that these traditions and customs were established in a world that was very different from ours. For example, the infant mortality rate prior to the nineteenth century was around 25% globally, and the child mortality rate was close to 50%. In that context, it makes sense to try for as many children as possible if one wants to continue their lineage. Now, those figures have dropped to 3% and 5% respectively. In the last century alone, the world population has skyrocketed from two billion people to 7 billion and counting. Does it still make sense to continue such a tradition given its unsustainability? Resources aren't infinite. On the other hand, there are traditions that still hold value. The prohibition against mixing dairy and meat, for example, respects the bond between a mother and a child and serves as a reminder that mothers should not harm their children, even inadvertantly. Even though I don't personally observe that tradition, I can still admire its beauty regardless of its source.

[@jimdoyel5044]

I disagree. Your comment begs "What is a Jew?"; and that has been a far more complicated and on-going discussion within the Jewish community.

[@peterdalyy3542]

@@jimdoyel5044 thanks for your reply, I think its if you consider Judaism a religion or a race , or both ?

[@JRock1900]

So Izzy unfortunately is very foolish So all his grandparents witnessing Yetzias Mitzrayim, hat Sinai, 40 years in the midbar, Prophets.., are fools and liars? Please! He doesn’t WANT to believe in G-d because in his mind that allowed him to do whatever he wants… very foolish!!!! Instead of leaving Satmer and finding some other community that would stimulate his life, he went to שאול תחתית

[@hannacohn3704]

i could try to understand the pain u went through as a child... but did u stop believing in god because he deceived u or u were deceived by humans? it seems you're both confused as to what you believe in... because all the traditions that you so love and want to hold onto is Judaism= god.... the rest is a chasiddish issue... u mentioned poor education and contradicting that they learn to much... either way there are less stringent communities u could become part of and ull be accepted with love and kindness before throwing it all away... and entering a world where ur met with the same issues u have left behind

[@luisalves4638]

דו ביסט א גוט מאן, חבר.

[@hiddenyid4223]

Just my two cents: There's seems to be a some setup that bring humans into believing in superstitions. On one side there's the Priest, who has a lot to earn from making His God a hungry one. On the other end this poor human is seeking for a meaningful life. At some time in history, Idolatry was overtaken by God. Which for surely is a step in the right direction. From there on, talking from a Jewish perspective, there were ups and downs. As Izzy points out, our sages were really smart. The good takes that they were saying are still meaningful today. The Mishnah seems to by a hard try to make sense of the Torah, after cultural changes which made the original irrelevant. Looking at the Talmud, if you filter out the superstitions (say, that eating meat and fish is dangerous etc.), you get to know the way of very talented people of that time were thinking. Now coming to B`aal Shem stories. Looks like after the Shabse Zvi's false Messiah movement. Some great people decided that the dose of superstition, which were practiced was not enough to satisfy the average-intelligent person. So they rose the dose. And here we are. You can't fix the human flaw which so much desires a meaningfulness in life. An authority. A road which was already ridden. Someone else who has done the thinking for you. The good feeling of being part of a "powerful"(?) crowd. So we see this flaw return in the post-modern liberals which their soul too needs a meaningful life. So here come the new Holy Cows. It's just human nature. We can't run away from it. Frieda, Izzy, please comment☺♥

[@familygotlieb2897]

Interesting, that you label as a flaw, human search for meaning. How is it that people who are part of a culture that preaches tolerance and respect for different schools of thought - are, at the same time, themselves so judgmental of other people’s values and viewpoints?

[@hiddenyid4223]

​@@familygotlieb2897 The jumping to conclusion and canceling others that did not deduce that same conclusions, this is what the flaw is about.