The Story Of The 20,000 Dollar Furry Commission

[@Izzzyzzz]

Hey guys!! It was brought to my attention that there are some points of misinformation or misleading details that were in the source I used for this video. After being shown some very important proof and context, I'd like to urge anyone who has watched this video to read some of the more important corrections below!! >>> Caravan at no point approached the Gremcorps team about their bids on the custom auction being made while experiencing a manic episode. A manic episode was also never mentioned when they requested a refund and threatened a chargeback. >>> No refund requests or chargeback threats were made until the custom was nearing completion, over 5 months after the auction. >>> Caravan's grievances that spurred their request for a refund had nothing to do with the custom grem itself, or with manic spending. As far as the Gremcorps team were being told, the only cause for refund requests were personal issues they experienced with the community and their feelings about how Gremcorps operated as a group. >>> The image that’s been passed around as if it was the final product is only the Masterlist image: a single clear, minimally shaded reference meant only to show design ownership. It is not indicative of the amount of art that Caravan received. All of the art listed and promised in the original sale (as well as extra) was completed and delivered. >>> The auction offered the creation of extra art beyond what was listed, if requested by the auction winner. Any additional art beyond what was delivered was not pursued by Caravan. More than a dozen community members offered free art as well that was ultimately rejected. Proof of every claim made above can be requested by email at [e-mail] !! Thank you guys for reading- I apologise to Gremcorps as well as you guys for getting information wrong, and I hope you guys will take all of this updated info into account when formulating your opinion! :)

[@frootbythef000t6]

Ah it's no biggie some people make mistakes Keep up the good work! 💕💕

[@lucienverse]

I have 3 Grems just because I love their designs. (And one of which costed me nothing.) I love the species for the events and the community. I remember that auction happening and I am glad you made this comment to clear things up. Once I bid on a Grem then ended up winning, but I couldn't afford them as my situation changed quickly. Gremble told me it was ok and they would just re-post it, and they did. They are one of the most understanding creators I know.

[@princessego5568]

This is a rather excellent example of how content creators should remedy their mistakes. Thank you, Izz! 💕💕

[@ao-td2ud]

"nearing completion" I don't believe that Toothless spent 5 months on this and it was nearing completion. I could, and do, draw things like that in 24 hours. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it was NOT given care and consideration. There is NO excuse to take FIVE MONTHS to finish your biggest commission, only to make it look like you started it when a refund is finally requested.

[@lucienverse]

@@ao-td2ud There is more art than shown in the video...

[@BadGirlsBeotchBlog]

I legit thought this would be about a $20,000 fur suit commission. The fact that it was just a fan art makes it even stranger.

[@devonetn8176]

Same a fursuit would be crazy but still eh but it was just fanart for money

[@haliee]

same

[@purllow]

@@devonetn8176 I could expect a fursuit to be that price but it being art was surprising

[@D-Boy22]

Have you seen how crap the artwork looked as well? How can you receive such an amount and still be salty enough to do such a low effort job? I work often with professional artists and godamn this feels stupid. Thats a year salary for some peoples and you're still making the client wait enough to ask you the artwork asap before legal action? And deliver this?

[@IMakePeopleSaltyApparently]

@@D-Boy22 then they had the nerve to ban the person from the community

[@abcdefg98753]

Garfield is a closed species owned by jim davis. truly a one of a kind

[@Quackervoltz]

Original oc donut steal

[@mentallyunstable1926]

thank you buff garfield very cool

[@BBWahoo]

Jim davis made garfield for profit, so that's an extremely jim davis thing to do. Imagine having your own garfieldsona made by the man himself!!

[@MastaOfMonkeyDisasta]

*Garfield turns you into a human lasagna and vores you*

[@mentallyunstable1926]

@@MastaOfMonkeyDisasta out of all the words in the english language you decided to say this

[@DumbStupd]

came for stupidity stayed for Garfield in a boat

[@TheSleepyRanger]

I legit wasn't paying much attention to what was being said due to being distracted by the garfield on a boat

[@thomaskole9881]

Garfield on a boat is big mood tho

[@chairger]

garfielf

[@goose7632]

Garfield is the best

[@andrew2044]

Lol same

[@raffiefoxmew3691]

Can confirm from the community, this record has now been smashed. One went for $35k last year.

[@Idcwtfgggghhn]

Holy-

[@cdru515]

Got a link?

[@xavibun]

Bro what the fuck-

[@anfani6839]

Its baffling to see that some people apparently have those amounts of money just lying around their houses, ready to get burnt away like its nothing, lmao

[@HunterRaider13]

I wonder how people would react to model horse prices. One went for auction this Year for 65k

[@LiNLIn-gk2lf]

*Nah sorry honey I cant take the kids tonight I gotta get this closed species I've been in this bidding war for 17 hours*

[@apachakuteq6994]

Lmao

[@jazzratoon]

Money well spent. XD

[@DireNemesis]

I really hate closed species they're so idiotic

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

Dr. Freeeemaaaan, My employers.... require... your... adoptable, furries.

[@DireNemesis]

@Yukemo Dekukemo nothing is stopping you in all honesty because if they harass and blacklist you thats illegal

[@hellokittyfan2459]

"The 20k furry" that name sounds like a furry rapper.

[@awesomeduxe]

It also sounds like a 2k bug furry but whatever.

[@iloverobot8531]

ur... pfp...

[@rainbowrailroadcrossing7798]

That should be my rapper name

[@galacticfire9727]

Still waiting for the rich furries to find my commission page. One day....

[@dom_ed]

still waiting for anyone to find mine

[@PinkSinsila]

_That's a whole vibe right here_

[@notblake324]

I feel that

[@R03N_01]

I as well...

[@galacticfire9727]

DAMN THIS BLEW UP FAST LOL TY Izzzyzzz ❤️

[@2a0z72]

from an accidental 20k$ furry commission to a 50k$ self-insert shipping animation made by a professional studio and was meant to be COMPLETELY serious. how far we've come.

[@Clownish_bug]

FR

[@Lethargy_Lottie]

I know this comment is old, but I’m out of the loop (TT-TT) What’s up with the self-insert shipping animation made by a professional studio?

[@2a0z72]

@@Lethargy_Lottie DW UR GOOD!! I forgot his name, but some guy commissioned a studio 30-50k dollars to make a self insert animation with him running away from a hazbin hotel character trying to make him her lover 😭

[@Lethargy_Lottie]

@@2a0z72 OH MY GOD, YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT THE VERBALASE ANIMATION (＠O＠;) I THINK A SINGULAR PERSON ANIMATED THE VIDEO, BUT DON’T QUOTE ME ON THAT DIABFNDIFNDKDKX!!!

[@sefsprite]

i one day wish to have the confidence of a wealthy furry commissioning an artist

[@cupcakewarp]

I would commission alot of artists if I was rich lol

[@mezzo_piano]

splatoon fan 🐡

[@galaxysapphirekitty7893]

@@mezzo_piano lol I thought the same- off topic question what team where u one for the splatfest?

[@mezzo_piano]

@@galaxysapphirekitty7893 i was on team star !!

[@obsoleteocto2782]

@@galaxysapphirekitty7893 I missed the splatfest sadly, but I was on mushroom.

[@celestedivinity2178]

This resolution makes me really sad actually. I can’t imagine how upsetting it would be to be in a manic state and lose that much financially

[@n.l.g.6401]

Happened to me, although it was with a mobile gacha game and a whole order of magnitude less money. It was absolutely awful and I felt the aftershocks for months. Since then, I just straight-up CAN'T play any games with microtransactions in them and have to request new credit cards regularly so I don't memorize the numbers/store them on websites. $20k is absolutely crushing and I hope the guy's alright.

[@Sugarsugarkittycat]

i can't find the source but i remember reading somewhere that caravan has a high-paying senior level tech job. the 20k probably put a dent in their finances and the situation is still a bummer, but they likely are okay!!

[@n.l.g.6401]

@@Sugarsugarkittycat I hope that's true. A manic episode without an adequate safety net can be life-ruining, but so can untreated anxiety. Do you remember if Caravan got on a dosage that worked?

[@2-bit567]

Manic states can suck, but depressive ones are worse for me.

[@junebug8317]

@@n.l.g.6401 Mine was a mobile claw game machine... I felt this comment completely though, if a game has microtransactions I'm probably spending all my money getting the dumbest things. I just can't play games like that anymore because my mania gets the best of me sometimes

[@smallturtle5449]

It’s sad that the story behind this purchase lies in anxiety and depression, I was hoping Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos had a secret furry account

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

ME TOO OMG I was doing theories in which celebrity I think looks to be a secret furry

[@2112pk]

a world with furry jeff bezos (yiff bezos) would be a better place, trickle down economics would be real.

[@its_destruggle2226]

Elon Musky_Husky

[@BBWahoo]

"HOW'D YOU SPEND YOUR LIFE SAVINGS!?" "Uhhh...um...uhhh"

[@syafiqjabar]

Musk likes catgirls

[@parockeen7591]

This reminded me of those kids selling COLOUR PALLETS on deviant art for like 15€ each and literally attacking random artists for ‘using their colours without paying’ LMAOO

[@Ophangea]

FUCKING COLOR PALETTES BRO THIS IS SO FUNNY😭😭😭

[@aquilleswinkler5051]

@@Ophangea Only adobe can sell colour pallets lol

[@Spunro]

NO WAY PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO THAT?? LMAO

[@rivuletrwfan]

BAHAHAH WHAT?? ADOPTABLES R COOL N I WANNA MAKE SOME BUT COLOR PALLETES???

[@starcrysis23]

Yeah I see that shit all the time. I downloaded some free ones and screenshot any that aren’t free. I remember first getting into procreate and seeing people charging for color palettes and was shocked. Yeah right lol

[@rorrim0]

If I was in the shoes of the auctioneer, I'd feel obligated to write a whole damn 200 page art book about this bipedal furry creature for 20k. God damn.

[@annonynoususer5085]

Nah fuck that! At 2ok that fucking thing needs a full s1 anime arc where it is a godly world consumer and is appeased only by blood and tears of the angry fans and the owner himself THIS BITCH NEEDS TO ASCEND! AND GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND!

[@trishbutpesci1210]

that and a short film

[@rorrim0]

@Maze Monkie didn't see your reply. That's fair, im not throwing shade at anyone, I'm just saying I wouldn't be comfortable with giving that guy just what he got fot that much, no matter what position i was in.

[@FrancisR420]

Would you still feel like that after the person threatens to commit fraud against you and then hilariously threatens to sue you if you don't give it to him right away.

[@chumbum3041]

@@annonynoususer5085 “this is super auctioneer… and this is super auctioneer 2… AND THIS.. IS TO GO… EVEN FURTHER BEYOND!”

[@aes2621]

I feel like people aren’t pointing out that there was another person who most likely was in sound mind willing to pay 20k

[@LegDayLas]

@Maze Monkie The issues came up like 5 months after the auction.... so a little late to contact the secondary bidder and jump ship from the first one.

[@queenmoreau2098]

@@LegDayLas This was 5 months apart from winning the auction to him getting the Grem? It took 5 months to draw a picture? No wonder he was impatient.

[@LegDayLas]

@@queenmoreau2098 Touché, The reason it looks so rushed is likely due to it being completely ignored, and a rush job after legal action was threatened. But that doesn't really relate to the point I was making that by the time problems arose, far to much time had passed to just abandon the winner.

[@pamelaguerra3768]

@@queenmoreau2098 please read the pinned comment before making ignorant judgements

[@saram5964]

@Izu Cosmix no they weren't willing to pay 20k, considering they wanted a partial refund. they should've just been like here's your money were going with the other bidder. thats how auctions work

[@charbway]

right after you said "the truth is actually much darker" i got an ad about human trafficking awareness jesus christ

[@leoterss]

the 20k$ furry art was actually a distraction so that former president Bush could infiltrate himself in the furry community

[@trishbutpesci1210]

for some reason when I was watching my mind went to trafficking, god I love paranoia

[@leoterss]

@@trishbutpesci1210 YOUR NAME IS EXTREMELY CURSED

[@Pandacalifornia]

I got an Old Navy ad

[@loopzoop6286]

i got a USAA ad

[@novalstrom7114]

I am obsessed with the garfield art in this video. I love watching him in his little boat. He looks so happy in there... so serene and peaceful. I just feel so calm looking at it. Thank you

[@hilarious_induvidual]

garfeldi

[@BulldogLawyer]

Before I was diagnosed with BP1 I had spent nearly $15,000 on Wizard101 during a manic episode. When you’re not operating out of reality it’s hard to make good choices.

[@ireallylikeinigo2300]

Hope you're doing alright now

[@rb7619]

Good game tho

[@BulldogLawyer]

@@ireallylikeinigo2300 since then I’ve gotten therapy and medication. I’m doing a lot better. Thank you Inigo.

[@herefortheshrimp1469]

@@BulldogLawyer So happy to hear you’re doing better!

[@takeeto9894]

damn bro your wizard must be stacked

[@shgurr]

I THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT A FURSUIT I-

[@SymbiontUVPlays]

oh hello shgurr 🖐️ thought i was the only one watching this after 6 months or smth

[@izanagisburden1080]

Even fursuits have a limit

[@boneboy1517]

Wow a famous you tuber and only 50 likes cool

[@tricksfollies9549]

I thought it was about a fursuit too. I can easily imagine somebody spending tens of thousands of dollars on one, considering how hard they are to make and how long they take.

[@wolfgangxstudios8766]

Oh no the fursuit one was if I’m not mistaken around 15k, still a lot of money.

[@leftygurl]

hot take: it’s fine to value commissioned art at obscene prices, as long as expectations are set on both sides different hot take: good grief that was not worth 20k

[@jeIIycat]

second hot take was ice cold LMAO i think everyone can agree for even 800 its still not worth

[@austinlam8145]

yeah, I don't really understand the initial backlash bc, before they fully explained the situation, it seemed like both parties were happy with the commission

[@DieAlteistwiederda]

I have a bunch of artists in my friend group many who sell their art or are working in that field professionally too and unless you sell the rights to your artwork too to a bigger company none of them takes 20k for a job like this. Absolutely do not undersell yourself but also don't overcharge for your work because that's just scummy too.

[@FrancisR420]

@@DieAlteistwiederda he didn't overcharge, it was an auction, someone overpaid. And then instead of taking his time he was threatened to give it to the customer immediately

[@xbTHEBlackAngelbx]

@@FrancisR420 They had 5 months to do it. Tho it seems the thing we saw in the vid wasn't all of it. like it was a reference sheet to show ownership or sth. Presumably there's more pieces that are more finished. God knows where they are tho, the owner probably didn't share them because of the whole situation

[@bisexualmess3153]

My toxic trait is that I like making oc’s from closed spices because I find the ideas of closed spices adoptable’s to be stupid.

[@truffleshuffle314]

incredibly based

[@mightyocelot]

tru And hey, if they don't know you made an illegal OC of the species, what can they do about it?

[@itsxora3207]

Based

[@veryraresnurp9073]

same

[@misterkaos.357]

Based

[@bigboopus5059]

The fact that the Garfield Art she made during this video was way more impressive to me than the 20k furry art is both hilarious and concerning.

[@lizc.671]

I love the garfield art

[@peropero2208]

Unjolly Cat That Swims Through The Blues Cost:20k And 501 Dollars

[@momhplyfuk9284]

that garfield drawing is a masterpiece

[@thanatoast]

It's such a strangely cute drawing.

[@-WarCriminal-22]

Fuck, I'm probably dyslexic a little because on first I thought you said more *expensive* . Imagine my shock xdddddd

[@bubbadoes6225]

The Garfield drawing in the background was worth more any the 20k furry drawing

[@1tomuch876]

Ikr I'd frame that in my house

[@xxstellastarlightxx9284]

Lmao agreed I’d buy that

[@comettamer]

Id buy it and frame it above my mantle.

[@bright3117]

yes

[@roxassora2706]

@Xwiri A cat museum

[@Luvl12]

The minute I started doing NSFW commissions, random rich people came out of the woodwork. I'm not complaining, though, as now I can afford stuff for college.

[@UraniumEater59]

sounds like a good deal

[@redtreekoflames1327]

It's sad you gotta draw dicks and stuff just to get through college tbh. Is it really worth it?

[@moved.3258]

@@redtreekoflames1327 no. Its not.

[@Luvl12]

@@redtreekoflames1327 I don't do art, I do Voice over and fanfic stuff and honestly? Yeah. Like it's not hurting me or anyone else.

[@redtreekoflames1327]

@@Luvl12 oof

[@thiskid990]

Adoptables were so insane to me back in the day. I remember so much drama surrounding ‘stolen species’ as if they weren’t all just a mashup of random animal traits

[@blackhighlights5497]

The concept of closed species in general makes me so anxious. It’s like a minefield. I’ve seen people get canceled before for drawing fictional monsters that accidentally look too similar to someones closed species even when they genuinely had no clue. I just feel like it limits creative freedom so much when you mash a bunch of traits together and close it off to everyone else

[@megaflamer]

not to mention that unless they take out a copyright for that specific design its basically just playing pretend.

[@FurryWrecker911]

I once followed someone who was so venemously defending of their closed species that they ended up force-recalling all the characters they made for their customers, threatening legal action against those that did not abide. They were upset with their species being depicted in situations or with attributes that did not match what was normal.

[@Yipper64]

Thats one of my biggest problems with this adoptables nonsense. It doesnt really have any legal footing, so its like a cancel culture police system. It is really stupid.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

@@megaflamer They don't need to formally take out a copyright - copyright vests in the creative work as soon as you make it. Registration of copyright in advance is only required if you intend to sue for statutory damages, instead of only for actual damages. The actual defensibility of a lot of 'closed species' is limited. Copying a specific character openly is very likely to be copyright violation, but while some protection would vest in the design of the species and the specific artstyle in which it is drawn, it would be very difficult to win a case of someone who isn't expressly copying the species but just playing with similar ideas. When you intend to protect an overall 'look' of a fictional species the threshold for a new work to be transformative is not that high, especially if you are playing with variation in the physical form or the art style. The real problem is that if you're playing in these communities, very few artists have the money to defend a lawsuit. While most of the aggressive artists couldn't afford to initiate proceedings either, they at least have the prospect of financial recovery if they win.

[@megaflamer]

@@UnreasonableOpinions so in other words....playing pretend ;) also remember a lot of these explicitly arent american and would work under different legal codes. But my point was that unless a specific design of a specific character is made, a closed species is of very, very dubious legality. A 'lot' of these try to close a set combination of species traits that often aren't especially creative. Lets take an example I found after a bit of search, a colourful wolf with a lions mane and angel wings. Not exactly something that would even remotely stand up to copyright scrutiny unless the specific designs used as examples are copied.

[@Brianna-eo8nu]

No offence to anyone in the closed species community out there, but “unique species with varying degrees of animal and human-like characteristics that are created exclusively to be sold off to the highest bidder for hundreds if not thousands of dollars” sounds like the premise to a dystopian science fiction novel.

[@Eeveechuvoli]

Can someone write that? Please? I'd read it.

[@patch8932]

@@Eeveechuvoli I have a Wattpad. I could, but the question is, should I?

[@Eeveechuvoli]

@@patch8932 Yes please. I'm offering myself as proofreader.

[@patch8932]

@@Eeveechuvoli Alright, I'll send a link when I've finished the first chapter and also link my profile in case one of them doesn't work for whatever reason.

[@Brianna-eo8nu]

@@patch8932 👀👀👀

[@badlydrawnturtle8484]

"20 K? Sounds like quite a fursuit." "...wait, it wasn't a fursuit? The world no longer makes sense..."

[@Redacted1010]

My thoughts exactly

[@GreenTeaoff]

Yeah - the amount by 18k and that's an accurate fursuit price

[@FunnyFavor]

It made sense before you thought it was a fursuit? 5-6k is an "accurate fursuit price" not 20k lol. Dunno where you are getting a 20k golden-incrested, ai-controlled, ironman-infused super suit but sign me up for one.

[@meevins]

people keep comparing adoptables to nfts but like...at least adoptables aren't hurting to environment, you're actually helping artists and the designs aren't ugly as sin and in some causes you can get them custom tailored to you so

[@shinyskitty3671]

Not to mention you actually get rights over the character design in most cases so you could use them for other creative endeavors like comics, which you can then sell. Most NFTs don’t give you this either because the terms don’t state it, or because the actual “character” was computer generated from a stock of pieced together assets and can’t be copyrighted

[@gavinjenkins899]

NFTs don't hurt the environment anymore. Ethereum switched to proof of stake, which is 2000x less computationally expensive than the mining-based validation method used to be. And that difference would just get bigger if the crypto community got bigger (i.e. if crypto became 2x more popular, then their new method would pollute 4000x less, etc). They are still dumb, but not damaging to the environment.

[@thevelocipastor666]

I agree, also the main difference between NFTs and adoptables is that the vast majority of people buy adoptables because they like them. Nobody buys NFTs because they like the artstyle or design. On the contrary, the vast VAST majority of adoptables commissions are out of a genuine love for the character/species.

[@stephaniewozny3852]

I'm kind of disappointed that the secret bidder wasn't, in fact, Jeff Bezos.

[@KitsunekoOwO]

I'd like to think Bezos is secretly a furry

[@allie7601]

i wanna shift to a reality where jeff bezos gets outed as a furry and amazon goes bankrupt

[@itsclemtime2357]

That Garfield chilling on a boat is just a whole mood.

[@Chiprat]

It should be a meme template

[@dillmen101]

It isn’t clem time it’s Ellis time

[@Hitsu1989]

I've seen too much Lumpy content to trust that... Dangit

[@stanloona8953]

This sounds so anxiety inducing for the artist and as a buyer. Manic states can get you to do outrageous things, and I can't imagine the stress of being an artist/collective thinking you're going to get this ridiculous sum of money- just for it to turn out to be a sham buyer.

[@composaboi]

I can't take that comment seriously with a profile picture like that.

[@ImmaWhoopyourCu]

@@composaboi I can hear the profile picture. Sounds like an autotuned on-going penguin sneeze.

[@koikro4410]

it didnt seem like a sham buyer, just a misguided one

[@souleaterevans4589]

I think "sham" is being misused here. If anything, it sounds like it was harder on the buyer. They made a stupid amount of money for a colored sketch they didn't even have to finish and had already accepted over half the bid for.

[@kpr4225]

I had a comission for a piece of art I was delayed on (and the client agreed), but it was really detailed. The girl on emails kept getting more small comissions, and I thought not only I was getting money, but also FRIENDSHIP. She suddenly said she is not interested, to refund her, and I was left with anthro character sheet I didn't have the use for and no money. The girl promptly blocked me everywhere. Not sure if this was a scam, but it was surely discouraging.

[@lilmisslizzyc]

as someone with bipolar, this story makes me so sad actually :( i hope caravan is okay after that. i’d feel like my life is ruined and i’d probably end up in the hospital.

[@Yiffbait]

Jesus christ that looks like something I would pay 60 dollars for. I love art but fucking christ that's just throwing money to the abyss. You can get multiple high quality fursuits for 20k, I'm out of my mind rn.

[@miafillene4396]

I believe it was an adoptable. But still...good lord...

[@cleanchimera3870]

@@miafillene4396 yes that was the issue

[@connor.77]

@GP2_Engine Yeah there's so many better things you could spend 20k on. Stocks, crypto-currency, down payments on property. Not some shitty furry art that literally will not have value in 10 years. I don't get people, it's not even a physical work piece, is it even copyrighted? Gonna have a friggin mental breakdown over the stupidity of some people.

[@hardcorefairy6534]

they were in a manic phase leave them alone

[@axelfirekirby]

For 20k i chould buy the perfect taokaka cosplay pay for rent, get a new gaming setup with a vr headset, and buy my entire steam wishlist

[@Ambyli]

I would've just gave back the money and restarted the auction. Denying the refund just felt so scummy.

[@moemoee9787]

right? like if this person has a mental illness in which CAUSES them to go on ridiculous spending sprees that should be taken into consideration and they should be refunded as they clearly werent thinking and wasnt in the proper mind set which is something they cant exactly control if they havent or forgot to take their meds whichh is clearly what happened in this situation, in my opinion they shouldve refunded him and do exactly what you said, would they lose the money?? YES but its better that then be known for taking advantage of a persons mental issues

[@savannahlvr9999]

@@moemoee9787 i agree partially. i do think their mental illness should be taken into consideration. but if you’re looking at it from the perspective of if they didn’t take their meds or was on too many, that’s not the artists responsibility. i do think a partial refund should have been given though

[@moemoee9787]

@@savannahlvr9999 thats a good point

[@Azazreal]

I understand the frustration directed at Grem but to put it bluntly, its up to the consumer to ensure they want a purchase. If you bid in an auction, it is not up to the auction house to make sure that you are bidding in a right mind. If receipts proving the mental health issues can be provided then sure I can agree that the compromise should really have been taken but since that wasnt the case, no I dont think anything was wrong here. The art commissioned was provided, it was rushed due to legal threats but was completed

[@junipersolis]

What else do you expect from them? They literally are scam artists.

[@jeffreyferguson634]

Not gonna lie when I first saw the background painting I thought Garfield WAS the boat instead of being IN the boat.

[@Izzzyzzz]

garboat

[@BBWahoo]

@@Izzzyzzz motorbodie

[@CrystalRaye]

GarField and Stream magazine

[@s0und_h0und]

One important thing to notice: Closed Species adoptables are essentially NFTs that aren't as harmful. Closed species themselves are not even able to be protected by any kind of copyright since Species are considered concepts, and It's literally illegal to copyright a concept. The only thing about Closed Species that is copyrightable are the OCs created via the species.

[@gavinjenkins899]

If you make enough of them as a starting seed group, then anyone making another one will probably be close enough to one of the ones you made that you could say they were trying to make that exact character

[@ajdude9]

The garfield art in the background of this video is amazing. It's so wholesome to see garfield riding on a boat in the moonlight just chillin' like he ate a big ol' lasagna.

[@livin4thelamb499]

When the lasagna hits. XD

[@Bloodycupcake54]

Pov:it's not monday

[@sanjanar110]

As someone who’s bipolar that sounds about right. Manic episodes are no joke. I’ve gone without food for days because I spent my money for that week on some insane things. Thankfully, I’m a lot better now and I’m keeping everything under control as best I can. But yeah I really feel for that person

[@ireallylikeinigo2300]

Hope you're doing good, sending virtual hugs if needed

[@starsiadraws]

It's also just an absurd amount of money to accept. Like even 10k would be too much for that character slot.

[@Hosigie]

Yeah, it left a sour taste in my mouth. I feel like she just used him. Kinda fucked up. Also I hope you'll get better.

[@ashnightcore2276]

@@starsiadraws literally I think they should've stopped it at 3k

[@meowsquarade]

@@ashnightcore2276 3k is still too much imo

[@kay7866]

So is closed species just “OC do not steal” but on the extreme end?

[@Rosa-gu5sw]

Well yeah but it’s actually unique and complicated designs that people actually make a living off so it actually means something when they steal it

[@redtreekoflames1327]

Yeah basically. They're not fun to draw either, since most of them are just chimeras, usually with wings or bird legs. Although some can be cool, it usually isnt worth buying into one unless your trying to support the artist. But that's just my opinion, buy what you want to I cant stop you.

[@Rosa-gu5sw]

@@redtreekoflames1327 thank you for saying it’s your opinion I keep seeing rude stuff Abt them :(

[@redtreekoflames1327]

@@Rosa-gu5sw what?

[@strawb3rrymi1k_]

@@redtreekoflames1327 they were thanking you for not being rude about it

[@marksierra3522]

The only way that I could imagine someone dropping 20k on a commission and not being disappointed is one of three outcomes occur. 1) It was a pre existing fursuit that just had to be tailored, 2) it was good and came with a host of goodies, 3) it was just the art but it was the the Garfield art before us.

[@jimmi3839]

The exaggerated wealth of a furry teenager

[@namedrop721]

I mean I’ve seen kids on the internet drop 20k in a KZbin video about shoes or electronics. Wonder if Dad just found out and got pissed.

[@christiantuttle544]

It gives me goosebumps every time i see it

[@BBWahoo]

tigger

[@bubblegum3228]

Maybe it was just Mr. beast in disguise

[@roberttran1114]

The overemphasized arrogance of a furry adolesent

[@majira]

Wow! I’ve not heard this story or of Grem before. I remember when the big news was the $15k fursuit auction, but this is just wild.

[@GoofyMann69]

That's alot 😳

[@jacobtimm1839]

I haven't heard of a grem either and I've been in the fandom for like 12 years now. Btw love your content majira!

[@SkunkyBoi]

Majira! :o

[@seanmccullough523]

Shhhh furman

[@ZombieZeke]

Oh my god I remember the 15k fursuit, but this is all news to me too!

[@omeganixonrush753]

And this is why people put a "Auto buy" for bidding, so that stuff can't spiral out of control to $20k

[@jen_sen8508]

Wouldn’t u want someone to spend 20k on your art though

[@g.h.lovecraft4097]

@@jen_sen8508 It's unethical.

[@AttackOnFullMetal]

@@g.h.lovecraft4097 I mean... not really?

[@jen_sen8508]

@@g.h.lovecraft4097 how, if they’re willing to spend 20k they why should u say no

[@g.h.lovecraft4097]

@@jen_sen8508 I would never let someone pay 20k for my art unless I knew they were well-off enough. It's madness.

[@ShakespearsCyst]

I'm honestly not shocked that they were manic. Bc of my bipolar, I cannot have any sizeable lines of credit. You sometimes buy the dumbest shit when manic and then the consequences of the spontaneous spending will help send you into a deep depression. I feel for them.

[@darklilligant2636]

these closed species adoptables sound like NFT's before NFT's even were a thing.

[@jellifygirl]

NFTs are literally just mostly-stolen or auto-generated adoptables for exorbitant prices and with a carbon footprint bigger than anything on the average furry foot fetish account's whole portfolio

[@stressedinmotion]

At least adoptables don't ruin the environment

[@carolbayasca9275]

@@stressedinmotion Adoptables support artists, too.

[@stressedinmotion]

@@carolbayasca9275 very true

[@golgothastrickster]

adoptables pretty much are nfts just without the environmental destruction

[@19mduffy]

Just now, for no particular reason, I've decided I am going to become a furry artist.

[@KakeiTheWoIf]

If you get into making porn, that's where the real money is at. ESPECIALLY if it's for gay dudes. They'll pay stupid money for it.

[@KakeiTheWoIf]

@que thehusky, you completely and perfectly misunderstand the impact of horniness on poor decision making skills.

[@yukiimaru2493]

Same

[@virtualpianosheets7143]

dude I suck drawing human anatomy anyway, this change was for the better

[@Wandervenn]

I love how fucking vague that species description is. It could literally apply to a dog... or genuinely any domesticated animal used as a companion or a guard animal.

[@citricusrunad9114]

You can literaly make something loke a kobold and done, you have almost the same thing.

[@dragonfire7965]

It literally doesn’t look like anything in particular. The features are just so general? -

[@nothanks7263]

that's part of the reason i fucking hate closed species. anyone could literally come up with any of these fucking designs.

[@mirror1643]

@@nothanks7263 if its unique sure but this species is just lazy

[@nothanks7263]

@@mirror1643 unique is such an overrated and useless word.

[@webwolf404]

Oh my god I just recovered from a high SRI mania!!! This really helped me feel validated and like I wasn't ALONE! It is horrible like when you can't get off a rollercoaster. You are always euphoric and happy which sounds great but common sense can't cut through the mess. Why we all need sadness and negativity in our lives. I went on this to weather the death of my 7 year old daughter to cancer. They probably saved my life but also stopped me from accessing grief.

[@clev7989]

That's truly sad. I wish you a better, if ironically sadder, future

[@priceisalr1ght]

Closed species just kinda sounds like NFTs; it's a non-physical purchase based around artificial scarcity that will collapse in value when people lose interest.

[@gentlemanvaultboy8671]

Except NFTs at least have that dumb digital receipt. This is like NFTs, but on the honor system.

[@demdem7946]

@@gentlemanvaultboy8671 lmfao

[@simtexa]

And just like actual NFTs they're nearly never actually protected by any semblance of copyright or intellectual property law, so people can rarely take legal action against you for drawing those characters yourself. Worst they can do is be angry at you and not let you be part of the Cool Kids Club.

[@parrot998]

@@simtexa Personally, I wouldn't even want to be part of a club with anyone suffering this brand of control freak capitalist nonsense. If I was a furry artist I would do everything in my power to seperate myself from people who pull this kind of crap as much as physically possible.

[@bgbong0]

@@gentlemanvaultboy8671 In this scenario, the community itself IS the blockchain.

[@Roxxie]

holy shit how did I not know about this I was expecting a fursuit , i did NOT expect an adoptable but man those sure do get out of control, jeez. most furry commissioners arent actually "rich" they just enjoy spending their money on different kinds of luxuries than the typical person. Unfortunately these kinds of scenarios are a lot more common than you'd think. I've had a few clients admit to me that they've spent all of their spending money on me and now cant afford to buy food (most of the time they phrase this like it's a joke but its very uncomfy), and a couple of times where clients have asked for refunds due to sudden bills popping up or medical emergencies that they didn't account for. For some people I think it just gives the same kind of high as gambling does? in a way?

[@janus1936]

Honestly props to anyone who can do commissions. The stress and anxiety from customer service (both in terms of people trying to rip you off AND people being irresponsible) must be awful

[@megp9id]

I thought it was a fur suit too!

[@bonkbonk3802]

Hey, that's their problem bro. They wanted to do stupid shit life decisions, they need to see the consequences if they want to learn no to do it again.

[@50blessings70]

Can confirm, winning a sought after design/species feels just like gambling and winning big, it’s so strange but it does!

[@ao9688]

Two words: impulse. control.

[@TessaGrayscale]

If you wanna know why there always seem to be "suspiciously wealthy furries" it's b/c there is a huge overlap of furries in tech fields, and thus get paid very well and have lots of disposable income.

[@captainweekend5276]

I think it's also a case of furries being very devoted to being a furry so they're more willing to spend money on things that others would consider frivolous. But yeah the STEM field thing definitely makes sense, coming from the world of tabletop gaming, you look at apocalypse players and titan owner clubs and it's almost exclusively middle aged men in STEM fields.

[@TheDoomBlueShell]

@@anty. As a person that knew one rich person that wasted 3k per month just to have a fountain on all the time on a house he only did parties, I prefer furries wasting on artists

[@whoahanant]

@@TheDoomBlueShell yeah honestly if you're rich then you can buy whatever you want in your hobby. I used to think that the people who bought 20 cars or 50+ pairs of shoes were dumb, but it's really just them being devoted to their hobby/community. So I don't judge too hard on money spent on stuff anymore. Since I bet if I had money I'd spend it on art or something. I'd still consider not spending over 1000$+ on one character, it better have some full art pieces with it or something.

[@BBWahoo]

income for inkcum

[@KetchupRocket]

Want to know a... idk if it’s a fun fact, but it’s a fact. Dragoneer, the lead runner of the FurAffinity website, used to be part of the United States national military security team and ran cyber security as a high up official. Furries are in the government.

[@redacted_problems7089]

Furries 🤝 Helluva boss fans 🤝 Homestuck fans Paying way more than necessary for a thing that wasn't worth it in the end

[@dandandan256]

verbalase 🤝

[@camobeasto6909]

Economy Changers: 1: World Leaders 2: Stock Investors 3: Suspiciously Wealthy Furries

[@kieravermeal9127]

4. Redditors

[@Naiqan]

5: simps on twitch

[@Lucafont]

@@Naiqan they're too busy donating to women they've never met to benefit the economy meaningfully

[@davidhong1934]

@@Lucafont 5. Twitch stans

[@fukyoutubestupidfuckinghandles]

the venn diagram for all 3 of these groups is a single circle

[@fetchwalkerenthusiast]

Grems don't even look that original anyway, stg this critter is everyone's standard "fantasy furry" avatar because they're just so simple looking

[@dusaprukiyathan1613]

yeah they don't even seem to have anything interesting, people probably wouldn't buy them if they weren't expensive

[@skrunklyOwO]

Bruh they look like sergals...

[@two-bitchaos1086]

People don't pay for unique species with interesting traits, they pay for the clout that comes with owning popular species

[@skrunklyOwO]

@@two-bitchaos1086 not me personally but okay

[@dusaprukiyathan1613]

@@two-bitchaos1086 yeeeah... it's basically hatsune miku.

[@kaz6556]

why didnt they just give the refund and take the money from the second bidder? lol

[@nicolemonges954]

because they're greedy

[@schmooca]

as someone in the adoptables community, it just can’t work like that unfortunately 😭 a lot of times when someone is outbid, they go and spend the money elsewhere and can’t pay if the person who bid up drops out most of the time the bidder doesn’t drop out in the first place, and the prospect of losing the bid can also dampen your interest in a design, since it’s a design that’s more a trophy of how you were only second best the adoptables community is one that rarely cares about actually using the design they purchase, unfortunately. the vast majority of my own designs remain unused to this day (that’s not to say most people buy designs purely for monetary gain/upselling. a lot of the time they do form an attachment when they see the design, which causes the impulse to buy, but the interest is wiped when they’re forced to drop out.)

[@SolarisMusic]

@@nicolemonges954 okay but like... then they would have ended up with 30k instead of 20k and everyone would be a lot happier

[@muku256]

@@schmooca idk about others, but me as a commission artist, I say you should NEVER spend money until the deal is done, everyone has their art and both have parted ways. I can get a 60$ com but i will not waste it until the finish product is done and both parties are happy, is irresponsible to spend money you still don't fully own since your part of the deal is not done yet

[@TeasilaNova]

@@schmooca i think they could have wrote a tos saying that buyers should wait a bit save their money if they are runner ups may get a chance to pay for the price they bid for if first place wants a refund/drop out within 30 days. anyone who is on the list first three runner ups can save their money or they asked to be removed. after writing that out their is an opportunity for cheating this system outta the auction house's favor by have two accounts and bidding super low on the first account and having the 2nd account bid max or an extreme amount the winner will drop out and 2nd place is a terribly cheater price. well that would also be easy to fix have the tos say that people can only bit set amount like 1-100 more then the previous buyer that way it's harder for someone to try an usurp the auction with an unreasonably low price. And make it a rule that anyone who comes first who can't fork the cash will be banned from their auction house for a period of time just to put an extra damper on any potential cheating.

[@CowFairy]

1:41 Can we just appreciate the cuteness of this art?

[@KRAZYMODERCYLERAMPAGE]

your Garfield art in the background is what makes life worth living

[@also_arles]

Am I the only one who enjoyed the art of Garfield in a boat?

[@GOFFBITZH666]

nope lol

[@AGTPvr]

We all enjoyed it

[@Qrsonait]

Don't worry *your not alone*

[@melvinmerkelhopper5752]

I thought it was one of those weird Garfield transformation fetish pics.

[@tiajoseph7309]

It was a work of art. I couldn't look away.

[@jaegerwolftango186]

Okay but that grem genuinely looks like shit. It’s alright, I guess, but it’s clearly not finished and nowhere NEAR the money paid for it, and although it’s not entirely the artist’s fault, they should have at least tried to shade properly. On top of that, banning a user from the community who paid TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for an adoptable and not giving them a refund is disgusting.

[@fexgy5595]

man that artist by far have better artworks than that custom

[@Alex.rhea21]

I would be so pissed if i had got that for that amount of money. They shouldn’t have rushed the thing and they should’ve actually taken the time to make it worth caravan’s money. (I’m not in the furry community btw i’m just an artist who is kinda pissed at the creator of that artwork for the quality)

[@imperialguard451]

yeah for real. thats such a boring design. its just a fucking “king color pallet” its mostly white with no patterns or anything

[@thenoir581]

I would even not take so much money i would just feel bad for the person I felt a bit odd when a friend of mine bougth a slot for me (25$) I would be like This is a lot of money think this truht and we will think about it

[@Krankhafter]

It looks like some shit I made when I was 15 and sold for some gaia gold back in the day, before I knew how to color.

[@mg3catgirl]

$20,500 for an art piece... wow, you can an extremely high quality full suit for that and some good art, crazy but insane

[@jbeans500]

I suddenly don’t want to be an artist anymore

[@submergedkidneybean9946]

felt

[@nickpix8066]

This comment reminds me of that one scene from Futurama.

[@mechanical_hands]

@@nickpix8066 which one?

[@moomooold]

@@mechanical_hands "i don't want to live on this planet anymore"

[@mechanical_hands]

@@moomooold ohh

[@Wolfman-rd1pv]

Just spitballin’ here but I think she might like Garfield

[@imagoat273]

I dont know, need a bit more proof to say.

[@ryansabin2618]

That Garfield in a boat is worth far more in my mind than the 20k whatever creature

[@Wolfman-rd1pv]

@@ryansabin2618 agreed

[@Wolfman-rd1pv]

@@imagoat273 Well I was just making a theory... A game theory

[@saable8860]

HmMmM...

[@MetodaMAN]

so fuckin dead, that 20k gremlin looked like a tesco value digimon. crying

[@random6579]

I-

[@Krillchi]

GREMLIN 💀

[@mudkipqueen920]

Tesco value Digimon I can't-

[@BustyBraixen]

A little surprised that primagens weren't really touched upon in the vid, especially considering the substantial rise in popularity of their open counterpart protogens. Primagens are basically the poster child of closed species.

[@starlosa]

So hi, furry artist and adoptable buyer here: So closed species actually have been dealing with a movement called ‘Closed Species R(evolution)’ Mainly arguing you can’t be allowed to trademark certain traits. It’s worked in a sense where some groups allow people to make ‘offbrand’ versions as long as they’re not marketed as official, although it’s common for people to still get harassed. Closed species are hated for a lot of reasons, they’ll impose rules even after you buy the character that could limit how much you sell it for, or even making it so you can’t sell the character, or how you need to be approved for any redesigns. Generally being very exclusive, especially a lot of deviantart species. Some species pages listen to the criticism by making freebie raffles and characters often, making adopts available for FTO(First Time Owners) only, selling them at cheaper prices, and even doing MYO slots (Make-Your-Own. Basically you design a character instead of one of the artists for the species), and generally being lax with their rules. These species generally are more well received and have a better welcoming community between staff and fans of the species. Like you said, it’s mainly insanely popular deviantart species that resist this change just for the money, and that’s where a lot of the outrage comes from. Edit: this thread is actually really informative, feel free to check it out :)

[@ryuuthefrog3775]

Yeah I'd have no problem with closed species if they only trademarked the species, not the traits. I've dealt with being accused of "stealing a species" simply for having similar traits/features. My character wasn't even based off of the species, I'd had it before I even heard of the species. It sucks. People really think they can own creativity. It's just absolutely insane. In my experience, most closed species are just already existing mythological/legendary creatures with added traits and a different name. Most look extremely similar. It's crazy how things don't matter once something gets popular.

[@schmooca]

yes! when you buy a cs adopt, you’re buying the title and a ticket into the community. you can make a character with all the same traits, it doesn’t matter, it’s only wrong when you label it as the species :-) ex. i can make a dog with water parts but it’s not a waterdog

[@notapplicable6985]

Wait, whats the difference between a closed species, and an alien species from something like star wars?

[@Eeveechuvoli]

I'm in this movement and it's nice not getting shit on for once... Mainly in it because restricting traits is wack and people get flag for using a similar concept for no reason. (cmon as if making a dog with water parts in is thaaaaaat special, theres bound to be people who get whiteknights on their butt just bc they dont know what a waterdog is and had a similar idea....)

[@whoasked1609]

Honestly, all the rules are there in the tos when joining most closed species. They never "implement" new rules after you buy one. It's almost the buyers fault for not being aware reading the tos in the first place. As from what I've seen GremCorps has done freebies, plenty of myo sales, and they do gachas at cheaper prices. All that you've said in that second paragraph GremCorps has? I think you just need to be more open then trying to observe something from the inside out.. They are a sought after species so prizes are going to go up They've listened to plenty of things that the community has recommended over the years. It's hard for people who aren't in the community to realize this because well, they aren't involved. They don't actually see what goes on and the interactions in the community. I mean just from the most recent event they had like 5+ free premade grems raffled, 10 myos and some other prizes. Of course people are going to see the highest prices and complain, without actually realizing anything else that goes on because it doesn't play into their original opinion. Of course they aren't perfect, but neither is any community lol EDIT: also for a disclaimer I'm just playing devil's advocate because it's quite funny people like to judge something that they aren't really involved in lol. I'm totally open to discussing things though, no harm in discussion

[@spaghettilord2858]

7:46 imagine dropping 20k on that, it looks like it was finished in 2 hours tops. It hurts me to know somebody spent that much money on rushed art.

[@FrancisR420]

Imagine someone paying you $20,000 for a commission and insisting you rush it because they're mad they paid you $20,000

[@aleclorian7329]

@@FrancisR420 they rushed it because the artist had taken FIVE MONTHS to deliver that. they put it off for almost half a year. they were mad because they were being scammed and only when they demaned it be finished they actually drew it. and it was rushed, even though they had SIX MONTHS to deliver the drawing.

[@FaeChangeling]

It annoys me how some closed species have such generic designs, or designs so similar to something else that it's almost guaranteed that another artist will draw something closely resembling it unintentionally. Like those "grems" are just dinosaur humanoids with rounded snouts. Everything potentially unique about them beyond that basic description (like the ears and tails) seems like an optional style choice rather than a specific part of their species, and grems are one of the better examples. It's like if someone tried to copyright the generic wolf/fox humanoid that 90% of furries use. If you want to make your completely unique design a closed species then that's fine, but if it's something that someone else could accidentally stumble into making then don't complain when that inevitably happens.

[@frostreaper1607]

Honestly, they look like Sergal but with a round face. Its just odd how people aren't lynching this artist for design 'theft' , usually people get out their darn pitchforks if you have one or two similar traits, or even colors, but nope, apparently making a discount Sergal is fine.

[@LegDayLas]

Well as long as the other artist doesn't call his design a grem I don't see what the problem is.

[@antopology]

@@LegDayLas exactly, majority of closed species creators don't care about people making something similar as long as the other person doesn't claim the character is from the said species

[@ireallylikeinigo2300]

I keep on reading Grem as germ.

[@amoixtlapaltic4690]

I feel that the closed species thing is kinda dumb, because there is so many people in the world that draw, anyone could come up with a similar idea, what's the point of capitalizing so much something like it was so special when anyone else can come up with it by accident

[@ana9678b6]

I’m SO initiated… I recognize the users involved. I recognize Browbirds, Grems, and Mantibabs. I recognize the Mantibabs you briefly showed. Heck, I own a Mantibab! I’ve always enjoyed characters in books and shows, so it’s fun to have your own to build upon. ❤ Sometimes, whether it’s the design or lore (or both), those closed species really speak to your imagination! Sometimes it’s the community or your friends that draw you to them. Art is a luxury, hence the sometimes luxurious prices, but I never spent more than $1,000 myself

[@thefinalgirl6907]

I'm sorry but seeing the two bidders interact with eachother so positively while bidding on the same creature made me smile so much that was really sweet

[@inumizuno]

And I'm glad it didn't end up in a violent argument. The other bidder congratulated the other

[@hkazu63]

Honestly it’s always heartwarming to see strangers on the internet just be NICE to each other. We’re so used to conflict online that when we see people be nice to each other, it’s genuinely shocking and ends up becoming touching.

[@_P2M_]

LOL, yeah, but then you realise one of them was in the middle of a manic episode.

[@egbert67]

@@_P2M_ in the pinned comment it said they weren't and it was misinfor

[@captaincrunch3366]

I love the Garfield background

[@tylerlyons1812]

Same

[@BBWahoo]

Oh wow, she really did clean up her background! Nice!!! more professional lol

[@theartist312]

I miss the Mac & Me Poster tho lmao

[@BlueOysterStan]

The garfield shrine

[@graveyardguac746]

I would love to hang a print of it on my wall to greet me benevolently each morning.

[@stevepensando2593]

**Puts entire life savings in the table** "I want you to draw Judy Hopps farting, please"

[@amoixtlapaltic4690]

People on deviantart be like

[@DanielRiossuper1rios]

I can do that

[@jakesanchez6621]

You joke, but this sort of thing really happens.

[@makotheowl]

@@jakesanchez6621 it does, i might make videos about my experience drawing to people lmao

[@estebanod]

JAHAHZHHZHA

[@endlesswanderer1753]

I know others have said it, but man I really enjoyed watching you draw that Garfield art. That was super relaxing. I knew about adoptables from my old deviantart days, but I had no idea they were sold for real money. I guess I always thought it was fake, play money or points. Makes sense, I suppose, as they're essentially art commissions. But the entire closed species part is unbelievably disgusting. The internet is a weird, amazing place.

[@Pessimystic]

I thought this was for a suit- NOT A FREAKING ADOPTABLE--

[@TheRedFoxMcCloud]

same i can understand fursuits since those things are already stupid expensive but dam an adoptable with flat coloring like what?

[@tinydong4586]

@@TheRedFoxMcCloud what is an adoptable? I don’t understand what it means.

[@RainbowCuga]

​@@tinydong4586 Basically an artist draw a character and someone buy the design. It's like a commission instead there's no commission and the first who buy it own the character

[@frvfverq1522]

even if it was a suit. THAT SUIT BETTER HAVE IRON MAN CAPABILITIES

[@imagoat273]

I KNOW?!?!? like, fury suits are expensive to make, I know that, I understand that, that's fine, its whatever, especially the nicely made ones with fancy add ones, BUT AN ADOPTABLE?!?!????

[@xenostra]

"Closed species" Haha there's nothing stopping me from drawing it myself

[@wwqqxr]

I know, right

[@elizabetharmitage2748]

Yeah I don't get it

[@timaeustestified170]

right? just draw one anyways and don’t post it, boom problem solved

[@RichyGrizz]

right like unless its pantented anyone can create one

[@CrystalRaye]

I dont get it either. I understand the concept of "I made up this species so don't copy it" but there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from drawing their own or flatout right click saving another artist's work.

[@ryumaniarail9532]

"The shading looks unrefined" Excuse me what shading are we talking about?

[@imagoat273]

Well, for a 20k adoptable I would have expected more.

[@cosmicllama6910]

@@imagoat273 I do better art than that for 30-50 bucks.

[@FacelessCrowd]

I mean it was rushed but come on

[@dylanwickund9109]

Seeing the grim species im impressed with the work and effort put into it and deciding whats common whats sort of uncommon and then whats rare like damn if all are like that i can see the appeal of collecting

[@doll1726]

thing is though there are OPEN species with just as much thought, and you’d be able to make your own design instead of *having* to buy one

[@slashsilly]

The thing that feels weird about those Grems being pets or whatever is that they are person sized. Dogs couldn’t start a revolution, because they aren’t smart or big enough. Hypothetically if those Grems existed they could beat the shit out of people. And start a revolution.

[@jyoats7959]

Big dogs are about as tall as humans if they stand on their hind legs

[@dinkledankle]

I mean, you could say the same thing about human slaves 🤷‍♂️

[@slashsilly]

@@dinkledankle I mean human slaves feel weird because those are sentient people with feelings and families, not because they can maybe punch you.

[@cryandruboneout7133]

@@jyoats7959 But how long can a big dog stand on their hind legs?

[@Barabel22]

That’s a plotline or element of A LOT of stories featuring genetically engineered animal/human hybrids, they’re mistreated by corporations or the government and then they rebel. Let’s hope when/if we create our own, we don’t make the same mistake.😔

[@TheDoitpow]

I have a very awkward habit of donating money to charities when I'm manic, most of the time it's just a big oof and I take the L and subsist off instand noodles and powder coffee for a couple of months.I have however, on multiple occasions, had to ask for refunds from wonderful charities that I love and support because I just can't justify the spending. Try asking a charity that feeds and clothes homeless kids for you're money back, it is agonising.

[@jennakerrigan1092]

I wonder if it's possible to set something up with charities you know you donate to frequently in those states - like a delay on it going through. Paying the money, and then it being in sort of a suspension where they don't accept it until a month later or some other time period - would that be beneficial? That would still satisfy you donating to charity in a manic state but allows that if you spend enough to put you in serious trouble, you can get it back without the charity getting in to serious issues with having already spent it etc. Obviously that all depends on if you can even predict which charities you'll donate to, how long manic episodes last to, whether the charities would even be willing to comply or if that would even be possible etc :')

[@GippyHappy]

I'm not manic but once I had to ask for a refund from a merch store from a content creator I wanted support. I had accidentally overdrawn that month and couldn't afford gas or rent. I felt so awful and they were so nice and ended up giving me the shirt and stickers anyway and they sit in a drawer because I'm too guilty to look at them 😢

[@pinkspaghetti1]

@@GippyHappy hi im here to tell you to wear that shit because you deserve it and you didnt do anything wrong. they gave it to you because you deserved something nice and u still do. wear it with pride

[@GippyHappy]

@@pinkspaghetti1 😭 why is it always strangers on the internet who say nice things to me 🥲

[@emememememememememe]

I'm not manic so I can't pretend to know what that feels like but I really don't think they would hold it against you, since at least it comes from a place of wanting to help. I do get it's probably a very awkward situation thou. We do what we can in this doggy dog world.

[@deifieddata4462]

This is a really tough one. On one hand you should be immediately leery of anyone willing to spend that much for an adoptable, on the other this is the artists livelihood and crucially they did not set the price. Rather than blaming the artist or the buyer I think the entire adoptable community is partially to blame for this one. This kind of thing does not happen in healthy communities.

[@beanoptodon]

As to why I will never make adoptables ever. The adoptable community is so obsessed with themselves it's almost terrifying.

[@ms.honiqualisha4529]

It is, it truely is. I see people who literally just buy them to sell them later for profit.

[@HK_808]

Verbalase 1uped this

[@xxhell7grinderxx673]

Yea

[@catmintdragon2215]

Oh gosh, not the species communities - I dipped my toe in there at some point, but it's just Stick with unspecie'd adopts, young children, it is a drama you don't want to enter into.

[@debayeuxchats5607]

Or stick with adopting young children, completely drama free. Wait. No.

[@l_iz_lgndry0118]

@@debayeuxchats5607 tell that to my mother lmao

[@axolotl593]

I thought it was cute at first.... and now I nope

[@ghostlyragdoll7505]

I own like three Closed Species adopts now, but also completely deleted social media off my phone. Yeah, deep-diving was a big ouchy on my mental health. 0/10, do not reccomend.

[@Rhyxelz]

I am a child and I will not listen to you as it is too late.

[@adamlambboy8332]

The colors you chose for this piece are STUNNING. I never imagined our lasagna loving feline could look so majestic.

[@kylezsmilez563]

My heart sank hearing about their anxiety and bad effects to meds. My instinct with this sort of thing is always to assume someone might be having mental health trouble after experiencing psychosis and mania myself. I know first hand that an effect of mania spending sprees not being in the right mindset to be aware of what you're doing. I was told by my doctor this was an effect and I'm lucky in my case I had people keeping and eye on me. Heart goes out to them.

[@mechamicro]

That is why furries have so much trouble with drugs.

[@kylezsmilez563]

@Blinkingbat Same here. And thank you. I've been of meds for a few years now and functioning well without them. :)

[@d3cay1ngaway33]

2:08 So in other words, adoptables are like nfts but better

[@thursdayplurbonym-boyporri1457]

Species Name: Gom Gom Description: Haha Gom Gom Price: $300,000

[@GummyDinosaursify]

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY

[@thefordlord9893]

*steal*

[@nyx..z]

THURSDAY

[@thursdayplurbonym-boyporri8921]

hey nice name

[@DuskPShermanWallaby123]

shut up and take my coupons

[@tittlediddle6899]

You HAVE to look at Sushi Dogs. I was on DA when they were super popular, and I remember seeing them and thinking, "why are people paying for these? I can draw them myself - here, watch" and then getting flamed for it. There was also a controversy where someone purchased a make-your-own license, but then drew the dogs with their eyes open (they're usually shut). The person who sold the license then tried to revoke it, and caused a huge shit storm over open eyed food dogs.

[@user-vw4xp5nt9f]

ughh the fuckin open eyed sushi dog controversy was soo dumb 😭😭😭

[@TuesdaysArt]

Oof

[@maluridae_]

This is the species that came to my mind when this video started haha I knew someone from that group and they went from being someone who I at first felt very close to, to someone who would become a bit "manic" and spend huge amounts on those and other virtual things, and in the end our friendship exploded over something so menial that I don't even remember what it was, but the feeling of the vitriol was so deep that even thinking of sushi dogs makes me feel a bit freaked out now, even if they were cute designs. (For context, I'm an illustrator but I've never involved with any virtual species myself).

[@jang2386]

why they tried to copyright a dog based on cultural food anyways. I could have made up a sort of convincing callout twitter thread on that and gain 90million likes

[@unnamedxx]

I don’t understand why Mr. Gremble couldn’t give that guy a refund and just pick the secon highest bidder who bid 20K. It’s not like he would’ve lost much money for a fucking furry drawing.

[@pixiestix2598]

i get artists need to be payed, but if it were me i would’ve given most back tbh

[@huntforbigfloptober1333]

Adoptables: the original NFTs

[@unirytmi5020]

closed species communities tend to be pretty scummy in general so this doesnt surprise me. the smaller ones are alright but the founders of the bigger ones are usually at least a little bit scummy and often nepotistic to their friends :/ greed is one hell of a drug

[@RedRosemary]

@@CrazyGreenFluff the reason they have a bad wrap is because coming up with a species isn't that hard. Meaning people don't even think they work hard. Which I slightly agree with.

[@apachakuteq6994]

chimereon community is very friendly actually (one of popular closed species)

[@fredericksaxton9782]

@@CrazyGreenFluff Selling a character with no extra art for that much is absolutly ridiculous and you KNOW it. I could get a HQ picture of an entire SCENE of my characters for $300, but they are charging that much for one character??! At least draw these suckers that dare pay that much and Icon or somethibg, or is that another $100 cause an icon is just SOO hard hm?

[@zephyrdian2408]

@@CrazyGreenFluff SO taking the 20k from a person going through a manic episode isn't scummy at all? From what it seems, there were plenty others willing to spend big cash on the Grems, could've cancelled, refunded, & redid it a couple days or a few weeks later. Doesn't mean you have to stop the bids entirely, just that particular one redone. Plus either way, they lose in the end because people are going to be a lot more weary about it. The argument that it's on the buyer isn't entirely right either since situation, as was explained, seemed to be the fact that they were on too high of a dosage with a medication.

[@zephyrdian2408]

Adding on, if this was the creator's "big break" so to speak & they were having a hard time with their commissions, then yes, I'd have a bit more empathy, but as I stated, it is CLEARLY not the case.

[@skullchimes]

closed species are wack, anyway that Garfield drawing is so cute I love him

[@TDLBallistic]

Not all CS communities are like this; not even MOST of them. They're usually very welcoming and fun communities. The one I'm in currently is the best I've ever been in, and everyone is so supportive and nice and just... friendly. But Grem's are something else, and always have been a very rich person-esque species.

[@CeliMe007]

I think sushi dogs annoy me the most. How you going to copyright the idea of corgis' that are food themed and wear scarfs. Like, BITCH😂😂 and people still waste money on it!

[@TDLBallistic]

@@CeliMe007 Yeah I'm not fond of the dog/cat + theme/element CS. they seem... lazier to me. I prefer ones like Fumi dragons or Kebanzu or Esk that have like, a lot of lore and unique features of the species

[@herzen9857]

I love mashing together different animals and making fantasy characters so you can imagine why i don't like closed species. Like screw you let me draw my star themed lion and butterfly dragon. No way im putting down my post just because it looks like your closed species.

[@TDLBallistic]

@@herzen9857 ...you can still do that, no one is saying you can't. The problem is when people make something that looks like a CS and then that person tries to pass it OFF as a member of that CS. That's technically stealing. You wanna make a cosmos-butterfly-lion? You can! But if it happens to look like a member of X CS, make sure you mark somewhere that it isn't- that's all.

[@itsmeeli7463]

I literally thought this was about a 20k fursuit commission I can't believe it was fan art

[@FrancisR420]

Not fan art, just art.

[@Meleedroit]

Atleast THAT would make some sense, since I've heard fursuits are expensive

[@TuesdaysArt]

I was expecting a fursuit too, but I'm not surprised that it's a custom of a closed species either. The fandom of custom adoptables is wild.

[@jaw.z]

Off topic but I LOVE THE GARFIELD SPEEDPAINT SM

[@Clownish_bug]

YESSSS

[@Shrimpgaming117]

Not just Furry art but NFSW Furry art that's where the real money is at.

[@celihenry3227]

nsfw ANIMATION furry art is where the BIG moolah is

[@Benutzername474]

@@celihenry3227 NSFW FURRY ANIME ANIMATION ART.

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

Make fat stacks of cash

[@DuskPShermanWallaby123]

@@MASTEROFEVIL yep

[@undoxxbruh9804]

I have to say, as an artist, i used to deny any Furry commission bc i was a little bit uncomfortable by furries, But then i met this cool girl in Discord, and in her birthday, i drew her Fursona, and it turned out good, and after i gave the drawing to her she not only comissioned me 3 times to make her some furry ocs, But she Told her friends about me And HER FUCKING FURRY FRIENDS COMMISSIONED ME. that month i was able to eat Fucking good food, I won at least 40 dollars that month thank to those furries. They really are lovely people, Not only they are really grateful about art, They pay well and they try to support you.

[@wajmgirl]

I don’t understand how closed species works. What’s stopping a person from linking an artist to one of these pages. and saying “can you draw something like this, but with a rainbow now hawk? I’ll pay you 6k.”

[@whoahanant]

The community is what stops that. The artists who make cash grab species usually get a blind following and then if you're caught with one not listed (they have a strict list of every adoptable they sell and to whom) you will be blacklisted and get hate online for stealing. When it comes to adopts they are a persons own creations much like how any company could sue anyone for making fanart the only thing that stops them from sueing fan artists is the community backlash. But in the adoptable communities the community for each species is tight knit and you will not get away with having a stolen creature until you delete that creature/character. Technically by law any fanart, for example Mario by Nintendo, is not yours and therefore if someone asks you to draw Mario the owners of Mario can totally sue you for selling Mario art. They don't sue small creators though because they would get a lot of negative feedback from their community. Unless you sell Mario stuff for like thousands upon thousands of dollars you most likely will not be sued by Nintendo. However big companies will send cease and desists if they think you are making too much money off of their characters. This also applies to all art and stuff in general so technically, closed species owners are in their right to not let another artist sell their stuff. The difference is that the community upholds this to small artists since they are not a corporation giant. So you are the judge and the community is your executioner. Some closed species are very good well designed and lore depth creations and they deserve to be the artists sold creations. But sadly things like hybrids are cash grabs by greedy people. Most people who attack you for taking their creations are people who made a cat+bowl hybrid or something. They use these very simple unoriginal species to close them and make money off of them. They typically will eat you alive if you have something close to their stuff. Not all closed species are bad but you have to look out for the ones that are bad. If you buy one then you can totally pay another artist to make art of it though but asking another artist to make you an original one can lead to trouble for both you and the artist who you paid. It's sadly a pretty easy manipulative system for greedy people to abuse. I always reccomend people looking into the community itself before buying a closed species since each species has it's own community.

[@slimecorn]

Getting socially ostracized are by the community and going on quite a few blacklists from my experience. If you don't care about the community but are hell-bent on stealing art not much can really stop you.

[@Ramsey276one]

There you go See Also Quality Bootlegs

[@shybandit521]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I'm not part of the furry community so if I was halfway decent at art I'd just sketch up one of the rare Grems and just hit post. What are you gonna do about it now? The image was posted it's gonna continue to exist. You cannot permanently remove an image from the internet. Are you gonna sue me? On what grounds? You have no copyright claim on a fictional animal species especially when the animal can be as wildly varied as it is. I just made something people would spend 800 dollars minimum on FOR FREE and there's NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO ABOUT IT except ban me! Like, I had no attachment to this community and I just made people who spent 1k cry because they realize closed species are retarded!

[@whoahanant]

@@shybandit521 I mean you can do that you just have to be ready for online hate and harassment and no one can help with that. They typically get away with that stuff, social media sites don't ever care about most art drama even less when it comes to the species communities. Also you don't have to be a furry to be a part of those communities lol. That's a big generalization that the adopts communities are furries considering most aren't furry in nature.

[@kid_malice7346]

the unaddressed Garfield collection really ties this video together

[@eternumdroida]

there is a whole video on it, is actually quite cool.

[@BBWahoo]

*Garfield with a strap on*

[@shdowsprytes]

Haha, yeah these guys. Sushi dogs were a similar issue. someone at like 14-16 (rough age estimate, somewhere in there) was selling these designs AT that age for 1500+ for a 1 time image. They would also do illegal things, like "reprimand" people by illegally bullying them out of legal property (upon purchase) sometimes for LITERALLY drawing the creature with "open eyes". A stylistic choice that is not indicative of a species unless they have "literally no eyeballs". Witchpaws/sushidogs were an absolute mindfuck for like 6 years or somewhere in that ballpark. I'm old and suffered from many seizures these days, but if you dig long enough I'm sure you'll find the journal post by Griffsnuff and some others. Wild ride.

[@tinkerhell-kj3mv]

I thought the point of buying an adoptable was you're paying for permission to create art, lore, etc, using that character. What am I missing here?

[@shdowsprytes]

@@tinkerhell-kj3mv SO yes and no. For many small time artists, they're building their own pokemon, or red dead redemption with a "species" as the focal point. For them, it's still their intellectual concept and property, especially if it's a head-canon type creation. They're allowing you to take part, provided what you do with that character abides by whatever "community rulesTM" they come up with. In cases like sushi dogs, you would be literally bullied by your peers (many of whom have more followers and thusly a power imbalance which is touched on in the video) and made fun of for DRAWING A SUSHI DOG WITH EYES. Because at the time the species "rules of ownership" were harsh. Like as a chibi the adopts were always drawn by the owner to be "closed eyes" or just a line. If you did anything else you were ostracized and in some cases they "resold" the design and took it from the person who paid, to then resell it at an even higher price. I cannot stress enough I watched these creations sell for 1500 fucking IRL dollars. And witchpaws G O T P A I D THIS MONEY. LIKE ACTUALLY MADE THIS MONEY. Of course taking a paid item and saying someone lost rights and reselling it is illegal, but when you're 16 and have 20k followers in 2012, that means a fucking lot online and she got away with it for YEARS :"D. Many artists end up make these adopts not just because they enjoying it and being a popular artist it generates interest naturally in anything you do, but if you had someone offer you 800 fucking dollars for a chibi dog recolored based on food, you'd probably be batshit insane to not take up "free real estate" like that. BTW this is the type of art fetching 200-1400ish dollars. pbs.twimg.com/media/E2u1-rSX0As4n4m?format=jpg&name=medium

[@abib3134]

Yeah I have bipolar II and have been on SSRIs that increase my manic episodes and that is so gross that they would 1.) allow ANYONE to spend 20k on that and 2.) not refund some of that money to someone who is clearly mentally ill and was clearly in a manic episode

[@shawnlyons9474]

I don't see why they didn't go to the next highest bidder.

[@antiZymotic]

I find the whole idea of a "closed species" truly odd. Essentially, I have a hard time believing that most of them are truly original, they could have easily been imagined and drawn by a creative soul that was wholly unfamiliar with there being some sort of "claim" to it somewhere on the internet.. How do you go about avoiding making something someone else deems their own creation? Do you spend hours upon hours, scrolling through these closed species in hopes of NOT finding what you thought was going to be something you could enjoy? Does it mean that, no matter how much you like it, and no matter your own set of skills, you are just not allowed to make that and enjoy it for yourself? If someone has experience or knowledge on this, please let me know!

[@sundalosketch4769]

I have little experience mainly in the participation of gaining certain well known species. I haven't spent a dime on any, most were myos ("Make your own" it's a ticket of approval for you to draw a character of that species how you please within their guidlines based off of rarity) and some free raffles. Any that were bought were by someone else then traded either for a different character (be it a species or some one off design) or for art. The only thing it costed me was time and effort through making artwork payments or character trades. From what i can remember from a few different instances.. People just make their species and work on it until somebody speaks up about similarities. Then it's up to the creator to decide whether to talk to the other creator about it to come to a middle ground about the whole issue, or just press on and ignore it, gaining mixed opinions on their species and split communities. It depends on the creators and their attitudes. the creators of the CCCats and Leech Monsters came to a discussion about a "Removable eyeball in mouth" trait that the Leeches had that was an important part to the CCCat's whole design as a species and the Leeches had to have that trait voided and unusable (Leeches that had the trait were allowed to keep it and be deemed either super rare/unique or an old gen/outdated version).

[@antiZymotic]

@@sundalosketch4769 That is quite interesting, I never heard of "myos", but it makes a lot of sense! Thank you so much for your insight and for sharing it here, though. ♡ It now seems a tad less intimidating to approach as a beginner.

[@MattStMarie-bm5sq]

Any and all anwsers are correct until there's court precedence.

[@simtexa]

I find the notion fairly absurd myself. Honestly, unless you're literally trying to trace and copy someone else's work I don't think it's very defendable as a concept. Hell, if you really care that much about a specific design and it somehow hurts your business that others are making art of it, you should consider trying to apply copyright to it - that's what that's for.

[@haydenmaines5905]

I view copyright in much the same manner. Shortly after Steve Jobs died, two artists both had the independent idea to create a black and white portrait of him - one did black on white, the other white on black. It became a huge legal battle and it was ultimately decided that they would jointly own the copyright to their respective works because they both independently came up with the idea at the same time. Don't forget that copyright was only invented so that printing presses could operate a monopoly (as copyright just gives an enforced monopoly) and screw over artists and writers. Whereas before writers could shop around between the various printing presses and drive rates down, once copyright was lobbied for by the printhouses to the British Govt, they could buy outright the copyright from the artist and maintain exclusivity on whatever book might become popular. Many of Shakespeare's stories were inspired and riffed off of other plays at the time period, and many characters like Puck were part of the creative Commons, much like how the legends of King Arthur or Greek and Roman God's were developed. Copyright certainly has its place, but I think in many ways it was a simple solution for a complex problem and is in desperate need of a repurposing. I think I personally would much rather see a limited exclusivity period of a handful of years, followed by an extended enforced open royalty period, where anyone can modify your works but must pay a certain royalty on it. Lastly, I see little justification for enforcing strict copy restrictions, and that if you copy something, you should have to pay a royalty on it to the original holder. Exceptions of course for physical objects, but when we're talking about intangibles, where the cost of copy is negligible, i would be more open to something like this existing for my creative works. (The above is also super simplified I just am not gonna go super in depth in a KZbin post)

[@sandwormy]

Buying a closed species is basically the equivalent of having to pay money every time you make a DND character, how do people keep buying into it?

[@kittycatisthat728]

I used to be in the Grem community a while back, managed to snag a MYO slot and later on an actual auction that I, thankfully, was able to sell to another. I was a dumb, impressionable teen wanting an 'in' with the art community who saw these majorly popular closed species and figured if I could get into one I could get the traction I wanted on my own work. Obviously didn't pan out. I got rid of the few grems I had via trade for things like felt figures and artwork, and have since moved on to my own things. Honestly? A bigger trap would have to be the ARPG community, like Draco Stryx, Tokotas, Kukuri, etc. Again, designs and artwork got major traction, especially if it was considered good to distinguish itself from the glut of hastily slapped together pieces to accumulate in game currency. Artists who consistently drew decent artwork for the groups got huge followings. However even worse than the closed species is that you had to pay for genos - essentially guidelines to the design that you had to adhere to, very specifically in some cases, with very little leeway when it came to artistic creativity. If you had fewer than three markings there was about 1000 other designs that looked exactly like yours, only distinguished by their name and number. If you didn't want a copy pasted design, you'd have to shill out major money to get a semi-custom. Even then, many of those had only a handful of markings, and paled in comparison to the other, flashier designs with 10+ markings, mutations, and other "rare" traits that you could get by breeding. Best decision I ever made was leaving these groups and drawing for myself again. I was 15 or so at the time and craving popularity - if you were like me, don't get into the money sinks or chase the popularity from these groups. You won't get it, and you're better off doing your own thing anyways. If you really want community, make your own group, but don't put a paywall behind it.

[@sandwormy]

@@kittycatisthat728 Jesus that sounds horrifying. Genuinely can't imagine paying someone big bucks for an OC I dont even have freedom to create myself... what gets me is that these communities are basically held together by what is basically string because once people wise up and realize literally nothing is stopping anyone from making their own "Grem" or whatever the fuck it will all fall apart It's just a status symbol thing and it's really sad if minors see that people have to shell out big bucks for a design they want. Like no.... you can just make something you love on your own.... it's always been like this

[@kittycatisthat728]

@@sandwormy Thats honestly the thing. Its so predatory with how it draws people in and once people realize how flimsy the system is it'll collapse. Sadly, it still draws people in.

[@orchidpawuwu335]

As someone who's a casual closed species fan and generally views them positively, it's the same reason people like trading cards or gachapons. Collecting stuff is fun and finally getting a rare one of super fulfilling.

[@sandwormy]

@@orchidpawuwu335 It's so messed up though. The only reason why artists don't allow anyone to make their own closed species is so that they can charge people their whole life savings for a bunch of pixels