Jacob Collier on voice leading

[@Wolfadorian]

Always fun to look at this analysis and then remember that he really just felt all this out lol

[@Woodsaras]

Yall so fkng dmb for drinking and buying into this koolaid. So funny

[@Wolfadorian]

@@Woodsaras 😂😂😂

[@giocoso4576]

@@Woodsarasthat’s a creative way to tell people you don’t understand stuff and are reluctant to admit

[@Woodsaras]

@@giocoso4576 saying someone "fell it out" is the biggest indicator of somebdoy who doesnt know sht about producing and composition. If he just felt things out he wouldnt need any of this theoretical knowledge.

[@roryexe2284]

@@Woodsaras Shouldn't "feeling it out" be exactly how you use theory once you've learnt it deeply? The theory alone would be less useful if you didn't know how to feel/hear it in your head. IIRC jacob said that he didn't use formal theory before he was 19 and that before that he gave his own names to things that he heard in music.

[@igordrm]

Jacob is so young and his knowledge of music surpasses what many professional musicians will ever grasp, even graduates. There are thousands of hours of silent study, experimentation, and loneliness, for sure. Huge respect. What a musical brain. Truly a miracle.

[@fromhl7619]

Creepy

[@MyBodyWash]

His music sucks. But there’s no doubt he’s theoretically knowledgeable.

[@b0unce805]

@@MyBodyWashwhat are you on my guy😂

[@user-tf2oh3cu7l]

​@@MyBodyWash taste is subjective

[@48956l]

@@MyBodyWash Theoretically and technically. Making earworms is more about abusing human psychology than it is about technical skill

[@rome8180]

You would think Jacob had no fans if you just read this comment section. It always amazes me that people think that complex music has to justify its own existence, but they never demand the same thing of simple music.

[@hazelaa1061]

That chords that overlap his pitch is perfectly sync ❤

[@michaelneppel1748]

His mental theater for music is astounding.

[@themandohunter3969]

How he’s doing that in his head is crazy then sounding out the chords

[@sasukesarutobi3862]

Now I understand why the roads around me have become so bad: too much careless voice leading

[@Johnwilkinsonofficial]

as a sometime addict of _some_ schoenberg my soul rebelled when he said you can do sound voice leading but end up in some pothole 😅

[@althaincarandir]

Can you elaborate? I'm not super well versed.

[@wayfarer1101]

I get him! You might like Schoenberg but I don't like potholes. 😂

[@gustavomatos6522]

Schoenberg would immediately enter a long deconstruction journey of the pothole concept. Admitting that arriving in a pothole might be the exact perfect destination, in some cases, other cultures and so on.

[@wayfarer1101]

@@gustavomatos6522 Other culture?!? Beautiful music gets through, İ believe to every culture. J.S.Bach is very popular in Japan. İ would be surprised if 1 in 10,000 even knew who Schoenberg was!

[@yea4253]

​@@gustavomatos6522no

[@lewchishelltaya5745]

Tell me you have perfect pitch without saying you have perfect pitch.

[@sandrashermanjazz]

Didn't he once say he does NOT have perfect pitch?

[@39bigmarks]

@@sandrashermanjazz no lmao

[@AlbertEinstein-sb4ce]

He obviously has it ​@@sandrashermanjazz

[@garrettcobbs9240]

@@39bigmarkshe actually did and interview that was based off of his studio. His mom is actually the one with perfect pitch, she would test him using the sounds of things around him like honking cars to see if he knew the notes and she’d teach him music that way.

[@williamlembke7828]

Close To You will always be a classic. I remember discovering it years ago and that section was always my favourite. Especially because I could play chords better than sheet music 😂

[@benpit2762]

Another chord which sounds pleasant to my ears is Fm7,9,11 over E

[@pedrohasallthepower]

Renaissance music is similar. Voice leading is more important than any particular "chord progression"

[@marcossidoruk8033]

All of music.

[@pedrohasallthepower]

@@marcossidoruk8033 definitely some more than others

[@marcossidoruk8033]

@@pedrohasallthepower For sure. But most of (western) music at the very least has a baseline and melody line with unique identities, even in styles that are considered very chordal everything is still structured around those two things, so I would argue it is always the most important thing.

[@NatanSupel]

“Yeah”

[@Tamadehenzhan]

Sehr gut

[@hechi9207]

😮😊

[@MrJerryTsui]

Debussy would disagree tho😂

[@forker6979]

why is that. just curious. i love him

[@davidfleuchaus]

I call foul. Voice leading led arrangement, yes; amazing pitch and amazing memory, yes; but it’s not an Fmaj7,9,13/Ab. Instead it is a melody note F over a bass note Ab (which is part of the harmonic structure sustained from rest of the measure) where the melody note is harmonized by first choosing a dense cluster chord and second by choosing the few notes available that are not part of the previous and subsequent chords so as to create melodic contour for each harmonized line. It is far afield from functional harmony due to it function not as nonfunctional harmony but as mere voice leading independent of harmony. It’s like it needs a new analytic name. Perhaps NFVL (nonfunctional voice leading)? That is its proper identity. [edit: Nevertheless I have nothing but respect for June Lee and Jacob Collier both for their amazing generosity and their extremely high levels of skill. I didn’t mean to nitpick. I was just trying to understand it. Articulating my thoughts here also helped clarify them. So, June Lee, you rock man!)

[@guscox9651]

yes exactly this.

[@hansmemling2311]

We actually already have music theory to explain what happens here. We call it pedal notes. He's basically using Aflat and Eflat as pedal notes and then using different chords as neighbor chords to A flat major. You can see it in this clip when you look at the score.

[@Bluejay-ri1yf]

Fun fact - all music theory is made up. Crazy, right? The thing with language is that dialects exist not due to ignorance, but often due to distance and unintuitiveness. Perhaps - perhaps, the distance between Europe and North America as well as the gatekept nature of music education has led to new terms being created? Jazz and Pop music notation is far more straightforward, simple, and intuitive. ​@@hansmemling2311

[@NathanRech]

bro just out-thought Jacob Collier 💀

[@markrossi5703]

June, I am a music theorist that developed a concept that is based on the harmonic series ratios. I am wondering if you are on any other interactive platform?

[@guscox9651]

To what end do you study this? Music is ultimately a human creation. Yes, a single, simple triad can be explained by the harmonic series, but eventually the series loses its utility for 7ths, 2nds etc. Furthermore, how do you use science to explain music theory as basic as the rule of the octave? Music is a human creation and should be treated as such.

[@markrossi5703]

The Circle of Fifths is based on the primary division of the octave - 2:1, 3:2, 4:3. The history of equal tempered music, and the tuning systems that preceded it, are all based on the approximating harmonic ratios throughout the octave. 6th’s, 9th’s, aug and diminished 5th’s, and the dominant seventh - b7 are all based on the harmonic ratios. The inherent tonal gravity in equal temperament intervals is determined by the harmonic divisions of the octave, which is nature’s harmonic spectrum. I agree that music is a partially human construct, but that doesn’t negate that the psyche recognizes harmonic intervals through their approximations. We can invoke Pythagoras and the evolution of symmetrical geometric shapes from the extrapolation of nature’s intrinsic asymmetries. Mathematicians and Musicians, throughout the ages, developed the most efficient compromises to divide the octave into 12 equal intervals. But the ratios that appear within the 8:4 & 16:8 octave ratios, and even higher harmonics, were used as the harmonic paradigm for creating a new system that’s based on nature’s magnetic attraction between harmonic ratios.

[@hansmemling2311]

​@@guscox9651 I don't know what you are on but all they said is they developed a concept that is based on harmonic series ratios. They didn't say what the goal was. You projected your own goal onto it and started to spout your ideology. You in no way added are brought up anything interesting as a response to what they said.

[@hansmemling2311]

@@guscox9651 Furthermore, western classical music up to atonality can be explained by the overtone series.

[@nashturbeville9559]

@@markrossi5703explain that last sentence tho… curious what ur talkin about! :)

[@NathanRech]

imagine if this dude made good music, he'd be unstoppable

[@92subaru57]

Lmao

[@Majmune123]

hahaha fr tho. i respect him as a music theory fanatic, but his music sucks lol

[@kennedymbuvi2810]

Y'all, "World, Oh World" performed by the Aeolians? He wrote that

[@LJMadrigalMusic]

How to play chords like Jacob Collier: Use all diatonic notes for a chord then throw some chromatic stuff on it too 😂

[@juwonnnnn]

🤯

[@maui3947]

Hello fellow classical musician!

[@zfalcon1]

A cat will step on the piano and play some random keys. Jacob will find a way to make that chord work.

[@virtualnuke-bl5ym]

There is not a single way he just remembered that lol

[@Arycke]

Not particularly difficult once you know a bit of theory. The perfect pitch part is a skill that cannot be learned, the rest is.

[@bsykesbeats]

​@@Aryckeperfect pitch can absolutely be learned.

[@950name]

​@bsykesbeats4013 like from scratch? I actually have it a little bit, can you suggest any exercises or videos about training it?

[@brick321]

​@@bsykesbeats not really. From what I know, relative pitch can be developed, not perfect pitch. People at younger ages can develop perfect pitch while their ears are still developing, however after your ears develop, having PERFECT pitch isn't possible. Relative pitch, knowing notes in relation to others, is a skill that can be learned based on memory. I believe also quasi-perfect pitch, knowing what a specific note is from memory, can be learned but mostly from hearing a note with a specific tone so much that you can remember. (for example, a guitarist remembering what a low e string sounds like due to hearing it all the time) I could be entirely yapping nonsense but this is what I have heard from others

[@gennarocastiello6950]

​@@brick321yeah it is very difficult, once you grew up, to acquire Perfect pitch.. yet not impossible IMHO. We should learn how to be children again, absorbing music in a way that we forget, be Peter pan again. It's about neuroplasticity, rewiring our brain's connection. Never give up man!

[@N1ckRa]

IDK man, Jacob has potential. hopefully he makes it one day, just needs to study harder and maybe practice for once. lol

[@Lucian-WOTW]

Who is this monster?!?!?😮😮😮😮😮 ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@pattocetamol]

Jacobs music is nonsense but you cannot Deny he is a talent

[@tilllanglo5316]

It‘s not nonsense it’s just next level. Music theory only exists to conceptualize voice leading. Voice leading only by ear without having the need to put it into a concept and make it sound beautiful is the ultimate goal for all musicians/composers.

[@thesaint7380]

exactly my thoughts, of what use is all the knowledge in the world when you can't turn it into something meaningful and touching.

[@48956l]

@@thesaint7380 The patterns in his music don't touch many people because they cannot recognize the patterns he creates

[@thesaint7380]

@@48956l Music is not about patterns, but about transporting emotions. Look at Bach - his music (and especially counterpoint) is theoretically (and if you want - mathematically) extrremely skilled - but it is ALSO touching. Don't let yourself fool by mass dynamics and hysteria, use your own ears and brain.

[@jdggaming5764]

@@tilllanglo5316 But it doesn't sound beautiful. It's techincally impressive in many ways but outside of his live performances, his music is unbelievably boring. Don't even get me started on his lyrics

[@Cass_Ihr]

I used to love JC with the In My Room album, but idk he’s fallen off trying to be a pop artist. It’s lowkey him trying to flex and overcomplicate things to the point it’s not enjoyable to even listen to, and I feel like even traditional jazz artists have the same conundrum. It’s the pretentious ego stuff that kills jazz in the modern era

[@forker6979]

dude its knowledge not ego. id rather learn than care if somone thinks theyre flexing. You can learn something from anyone, anytime. period. lose your ego

[@cooldebt]

dw about jazz - The Consouls have it covered - they use vgm as their jazz standards and it is not only nostalgic but really slaps - even if you've never played the games and (like me) are a bit of a music snob who listens to classical and jazz but can't stand the contemporary pop of the last 2 decades

[@Cass_Ihr]

I mean it’s just my opinion that his musicality has gotten lost the more he tries to be the “genius” of modern music. Don’t get me wrong, he is more musically knowledgable than I am and 99% of musicians out there. I was obsessed with his music in high school during the In My Room era where he utilized complex ideas in a very fun and most importantly meaningful way. It’s disheartening when he literally just sucks trying to be a pop artist now where he does try too hard to fit that ego being a “musical genius” (100,000 voices) where his ideas are simply all over the place. He is also a NFT bro now so hell no I can’t support JC anymore lol

[@Cass_Ihr]

@@cooldebt I’ll have to check that out

[@roboticvisions]

When you always use soooo many notes in most of your chords like he is known to do, your chords start to sound too similar to each other. Any explanation that he does here, as interesting as it may sound, end up in a result that sounds almost the same as many other chords that he uses.

[@spaghettisauce445]

too many notes not enough feel

[@roboticvisions]

When you always use soooo many notes in most of your chords like he is known to do, your chords start to sound too similar to each other. Any explanation that he does here, as interesting as it may sound, end up in a result that sounds almost the same as many other chords that he uses.

[@andrewgeher1032]

Nerd

[@leandrusi4533]

This guy has the most interesting thoughts for the most boring music

[@litledevel15]

This dude is so overrated. Cacophonous mess - he’s really not that great

[@wayfarer1101]

Do I smell the pungent odour of envy...

[@wordswordswords8203]

i don't know much about him but i agree. to much dischord in his music and he's arrogant too which is off putting to me.

[@drewnelson8692]

​@@wordswordswords8203how do you get arrogant from this guy, there really is no pleasing people these days smh

[@wordswordswords8203]

@@drewnelson8692 I don't know. I don't even remember writing that. It must be my alter getting online and up to no good again.

[@yea4253]

​@@wayfarer1101 get stuffed

[@lamontmelrose7640]

Jacob Collier is not a real person.

[@thesaint7380]

too much talking, no soul...music is based on life experience as well, not on theorizing every note

[@48956l]

Pretty insulting to say that Jacob hasn't lived a full and interesting life. You don't know him

[@thesaint7380]

@@48956l i don't have to know his life. Besides, other than you probably, i'm aged and experienced enough to tell, and to know what i'm saying.

[@marcosmello4876]

no soul???????????????? damn

[@bennetttomato]

Does JC still say homophobic stuff or just when he was younger?

[@Wolfadorian]

Considering he’s been a recent advocate for lbgtq rights and ppl can grow and mature from their youth, I’d say not

[@joeyhardin5903]

What homophobic stuff did he say?

[@AlexC-tc7em]

he stills does sadly, he calls you a fa**ot all the time and i think he means it :(

[@yourmomtwice]

{citation needed}

[@litledevel15]

He’s a trash person and for some reason Everyone worships him.