Jak and Daxter Analysis 08: Lost Precursor City

[@XxTheReptileGirlxX]

I am still obsessed with J&D and its SO exciting to see a channel just talking about it entierly!! Me and my sis actually really loved this level with its wonder of being under water and seeing all the fish swim around hahaha. Def subscribing to ya!!

[@Mezcon2]

That is how I felt as well. The atmosphere was really cool.

[@Kahvinporo]

It's really nice to see someone still talk about one of my favourite games from my childhood.

[@BenRajan]

16:30 You can actually roll jump past the button so the dark eco never rises. You can then take your sweet time going up. I was really proud when I figured that out as a kid.

[@kylewells6851]

Honestly I also found this out as a kid, also felt proud. I thought I was the only one at the time!

[@20000dino]

One thing I heavily disagree with you on is of the Lost Precursor City not fitting the Precursor aesthetic. "It feels more like some underwater base then an ancient structure" - isn't it both, though? Ancient Precursor infrastructures have this very distinct golden-bronze with neon lights look, a futuristic but primitive aesthetic. Lost Precursor City is just an extension of this aesthetic thread, pushing the neon lights component further (the blue hue of the surrounding deep ocean really helps achieve this), as well as the ancient engineering and technology. It shows how a single aesthetic can become stronger when successfully executed in a variety of contexts, branched into different flavors. It does, in my opinion, a huge service on building even more intrigue and wonder around the Precursors and enriching J&D's worldbuilding. I too would've liked to have seen more branches to this aesthetic thread, but I believe we got the right amount of precursor content from the first game. Having too much of it could've risked down-playing the mystery behind the Precursors, which, throughout the game, is expressed through the primordial artifacts scattered throughout the land, most so ancient that they're now built-into the rocks and vegetation - only occasionally you do actually go down and explore entire infrastructures (getting a first taste on the mysterious Precursor Temple, a deeper-dive - literally - into the mesmerizing Lost Precursor City, and, finally, slowly descending into the entrails of the daunting Precursor Citadel). It's honestly fantastic worldbuilding, to me.

[@seandokousian6374]

If you go in debug mode and fly back to the surface thru the elevator the city remains loaded and you can swim above it, pretty cool

[@BenRajan]

I know the series is dead but I really hope at some point they decide to remake the game.

[@Kligor2]

Honestly I'd love to see a fan-remake where they just remake the game in Unity or something. Not crazy graphics but I wanna the eco with better lighting effects.

[@angelictrash]

@@Kligor2 It would be really cool if fans (or even a game studio remastering Jak and Daxter) were able to add in the cut content, especially the precursor city. I always felt like the end of the game was cut too short 🤔 Also I agree, I wouldn't want a remaster looking too polished or "modern", the striking color palettes and cartoony style is an essential part of the game experience.

[@Kaptime]

@@angelictrash Opengoal exists fyi... A PC port of Jak 1 (2,3 coming in a year or two) I'm playing it right now. Just beat the Spider Cave, playing in 4K as well. Opengoal will make it much easier to mod/explore the game so I'd imagine more will come over the next couple years.

[@joelmauri9478]

I use to think that the JAK 2 haven city underport was the LOST PRECURSOR CITY years ago and now you've given me the idea to pull the old game out to play

[@magicmanscott40k]

I never noticed how great the water looks in this game. It's better than almost every game out there.

[@Nekrotix12]

Fun fact: You can completely skip the Dark Eco rising challenge. Or, at least cheese it. With enough distance, you can long-roll jump over to the opposite platform without hitting the switch, and just take a leisure stroll to the top.

[@Mezcon2]

Really glad I stumbled upon your videos. This trilogy was my favorite growing up. a vibrant world and story that made me want to replay them over and over. Proud to sub.

[@harryunderwood9387]

I always thought that the Lurkers actually made the City their home, all the while preparing to attack the village above due to the ease of access - I'd imagine they were sent in secret by Klaww while he was distracting the Blue Sage. Jak and Daxter just happened to show up at a time where they were still getting ready to invade, and saved the village by beating the main boss of the area; while some Lurkers and the like would remain, they were too disorganised to mobilise properly and thus wouldn't be a threat for some time. I'll admit the City didn't give me any "Precursor Ruins" feelings, though I think it was more because I was focusing on the idea that it was an modern base than an area worth looking at the ancient history of. If it wasn't a Precursor City I likely wouldn't have noticed the difference back when I first played, and that's a sad fact.

[@kerphostgarlez8057]

This level is actually the best for Jak's crazy edge long jumps. The issue with getting around the big room becomes irrelevant when you get used to it and it's so thrilling !

[@Tonn_23]

Really enjoy watching these videos. Love the game so much that every detail is worth to explore. Great content mate!

[@ironstrong3431]

Ive been looking for a video like this for some years

[@hsblue]

Epic video! You brought up a really good point with the whole slide trap and submarine/elevator entry and exit.

[@darkmatter-mc5iv]

so, I'd instead call the water something else besides zappy. You also got some Lurkers on Misty Island which do require a combo to defeat, or two hits. On the Bone Armor Lurkers. As for slides, I did get a little annoyed at it when I was a kid, but after the first time I did realize to grab everything and didn't really have any issues doing the dark eco portion again, as I actually enjoyed escaping it, and would sometimes try to see how close the dark eco could get before I could jump away.

[@56borderlands]

We need rest of these episodes.

[@mateotrapiello1114]

8:04 I didn't know you could chain two ground pounds seamlessly holy crap Now for real, I really really missed this analysis series and it's great to have it back. Great job as usual!

[@angelictrash]

Please make more of these Jak and Daxter level analysis videos, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the later levels, especially the Mountain pass :)

[@PowercellZeke]

Currently working on the Boggy Swamp video, which will be quite a big one :)

[@angelictrash]

@@PowercellZeke Yaay! Awesome, looking forward to it! :D

[@J3susP3r3z]

Great series, please, continue!!! This video, in particular, seems very interesting to me because of your differents points of view for the design levels. I've played the Jak and Daxter series since the games came out for PS2 over and over again (it's pure obsession) and it's great to see videos like these, because this means that fans really love the series and can show/tell it. Sorry for the bad English!! ^^U

[@jonathansuber1551]

When I first discovered that you could just roll jump over the platform with the dark eco rising I never stepped on the platform again I found that out when I was like 12

[@SchnickleFritz]

I really hope you finish this series... very enjoyable

[@PowercellZeke]

I'll finish it one day, it's just a bit slow going haha

[@andreapareti324]

This was an awesome breakdown of the Level! I am going back to watch the previous episodes and, while what you said (and what I've read while pausing) of the old format did sound cool, I really like this one as well! You gained a new subscriber.

[@123pie111]

Just found your channel, the effort you put on is amazing, and you deserve a bigger audience! I will sub and let others know that are fans!

[@FirstNameLastName-zg8xn]

What happened to this series these were so great!

[@PowercellZeke]

Yeah sorry about that. I've been working on the Boggy Swamp video for over a year now, I've just been really struggling to get the script done. But it's gonna be a really great video, I'm looking forward to it

[@tiwtid6055]

The Original Jak and Daxter will always be my favourite

[@TIMEPARTY-xk9bu]

Great video man. You brought up a lot of interesting points that i would have love to have seen. Like the color platforms. I have never thought about it but it would make more sense in that matter so we the players are not contantly taking the same path. While i was never fond of this level as a kid growing up i can see the beauty inthe level design and enemies. Cant wait to see your review on Boggy swamp my second least liked area next to spider cave.

[@PowercellZeke]

Thanks a lot mate. Yeah the Boggy and Spider Cave videos are gonna be super interesting, I'm excited

[@Daedalus8K]

Alright so a few things 1. I'm gonna be quoting 9:53 in your livestreams 2. I agree with your ideas for changes in the level. The pain of getting to the end thinking you got everything, only to see you missed 1 orb is really frustrating because now you gotta do that long trek again likely back to the dark eco room which is tedious especially when this is the only level that really does that kind of backtracking to you. 3. I'm interested to see your thoughts on boggy and if they changed during the course of the no deaths run because mine certainly have

[@PowercellZeke]

Haha, I look forward to hating you cuz of it Yeah, Boggy is gonna be super interesting for me too, cuz my thoughts on both these levels have changed quite a bit recently

[@Brandon-w3o]

love your video man... keep up the good work!

[@user-jp9bk1qn9i]

Ok so I've played this game since I was a kid. I know for a fact if you just skip the elevator, go to the rising eco room. Beat it, the room you end up in has a slide to the elevator where to ride to the top. AFTER beating the level so you don't have to backtrack. Your welcome.

[@trapez77]

I don’t think missing some orbs on the slide is a big deal since collecting them all doesn’t do anything

[@PowercellZeke]

That's true, but this is a collectathon, so they really should have designed the level for all play styles, like most of the other levels

[@wyattbottorff2473]

I think expecting to have it that easy is unnecessary, if the exploration was always quick and easy it wouldnt be satisfying.

[@MartianBlobfish]

Excellent video, you also gave input to how you'd alter the level which was a pleasant surprise. Now for my essay. Yeah, the vibe is definitely what won over most players, though the level design faults is why I always preferred Snowy which was was an expansion on the interwoven design. To be fair LPC was more experimental, Interesting how all three levels in this hub are experimental with their own faults like how Boggy breaks when you play it backwards and Basin is basically 'Zoomer goes fast'. I don't agree with your point on the double lurker, dealing with it was intuitive enough and the extra steps & the eureka moment when I figured out how to deal with it made it memorable. One thing you didn't mention is how when the small lurker shakes their head you can then punch them both at the same time. : ) What you said about the water are all great ideas, though something I remembered is how the water in Spider was supposed to be electrified as well... I really want a level like Spider concept art, imo Spider never did the cave aesthetic right and I feel like it's because of the Dark Eco. The checkpoint issue isn't a problem man, just travel up the first slide and die at a specific place, it'll spawn you at the start of the level. :kappa: Jokes aside I'm a tad bit conflicted, I think the best solution would be to add 'buttons' so you can call the chamber to the surface & the city after you activate it, though for some reason it feels like that would jeopardize the vibe. The first time I went down without the chamber I was taken aback and I felt like I had royally f'd up, actually if you could send it down from the surface without going down with it I think that'd be a great alteration. Imo there's allot of changes you're asking for that would definitely make the level better but kinda go against to hopeless and dangerous vibe of the level, these ideas you're presenting might not work for a level like this specifically but would work more for an actual Precursor City, since that would be more bustling & would feel more like exploring dilapidating ruins instead of cutting yourself off from the safety of the surface. Now that I'm thinking of it this level pulls off a real nice Atlantis vibe. A few ideas I had are: Lurker shark spitting you out in LPC from Boggy, which would still work if it came through the hole in the room before the first slide; having sudo fast travel by allowing Jak to be sucked up through pipes like the ones with the Flies, not sold on that idea yet; Some other way to get down to the bottom slide so you don't need to go down the first slide again, this could also be a Holy F* moment if players are somewhere like the big room and get dunked into the bottom of the level. Maybe the room it puts you inside is the room before the second slide, the room would have a door that needs Blue Eco so it's not a sure fire shot to the chamber; Finally, for the large room have floating platforms that become electrified like the water, so you need to go fast while also paying attention to the platforms. Also what you said about how you think the big room should have been handled, big room with smaller ones branching off, sounds kinda like Spider Cave ngl. I hope this Essay gives me enough credit to pass my Jak and Daxter Course. : D

[@MartianBlobfish]

One thing I want to add is this analysis really brings up allot of questions to what would need to be done if the game were to be remastered, how much of this game is really good enough to keep as it is and can we 'fix' the faults of this game without ruining their vibes, I think we could probably could get a much more faithful solution then what you've proposed while also fixing the existing flaws if people like us put our heads together. Also I think I might be getting better at level design?

[@PowercellZeke]

Yeah the second hub is such an oddity. It has IMO the best village, and the 3 levels that are different from the core design of the rest of the levels, for better or worse. I suppose it is intuitive how to deal with those lurkers, but my point was mainly, we finally have enemies that require more than a well timed hit to take out, and one of them harmonizes with the exploration (the Bully), while the other doesn't, but could have been. It isn't a massive deal, but I think I really went on about it cuz almost no other level has any interesting enemy design, so I got kinda worked up I actually can't wait to get to spider cave, I know you're not the biggest fan though I know, pretty much any solution we come up with takes away from the vibe the level has, which sucks we can't reach a sort of middle ground. Now that I'm thinking about it, just having two separate slides that only lead to one room each would work well, and have them accessible from different rooms. And the one leading to the dark eco could be the longer and harder one. Yeah, the example I gave for the rooms branching off isn't EXACTLY what I had in mind, but I couldn't show an accurate representation on video, I'd probably have to draw it up, or walk you through it as I play. Maybe I could do that on stream sometime. I think for a remake, we should keep as much of this game as possible in tact. This video is mostly a heap of nitpicks (except the slides dilemma) . So I'm not sure how much we should change. Cheers for the essay, as always, and I'd say you passed

[@MartianBlobfish]

Despite being so strange I still think Rock village's levels were probably some of my favourites looking back, since despite their faults they stand out more. Honestly I think we could make something faithful, not perfectly mind you. If there's one thing I'm good at is iteration, the real question is if making the level good by modern standards would take away. I've had some interesting thoughts on 'remastering' Jak 1 recently, I recon redesigning levels and the general structure would be acceptable if the 'original' game (aka what Jak PS3 did but without taking away from the game) was released alongside it. I'm not sold on it quite yet, though it's allot more realistic then my dream direction. I'm very interested to hear about how you'd redesign LPC.

[@Brandon-w3o]

Love this channel and all of the videos!

[@twikki9071]

While not my favourite stage in this game, I can accept that it probably is the best designed one. Frankly I think this is what the planet “Aquatos” in Ratchet and Clank 3 should’ve been like, rather than just corridors where you can’t even look outside into the sea.

[@ericsmithy102]

This series is epic

[@erikfinki949]

Yayyyy a waited so long for it thank you 😂

[@TheRussian13]

Back in 2001 when I played this game, I remember hating this water level. I always hated water levels, and still do, as I hate water in real life. I believe it may have something to do with mild thalassophobia, but I digress. Now I can appreciate the look and design of this level, but I personally still don't like it. As for the analysis of the level in this video, it's a creative and well thought out improvement of this part of the game. If they ever made a Jak and Daxter remake, I could see them redesigning the water level like explained in this video. However, as for the first game in the series and being the foundation for Jak and Daxter, I think it accomplished its goal.

[@1oddentity]

Forget the sequels. Precursor legacy is one of the best games of all time

[@limeboat5530]

Lost pog city

[@JohnWhite-ms5wr]

More please.

[@PowercellZeke]

In the works

[@keithealy]

I should give that other script a read. More in depth opinion on my favorite level? Yes please. Theirs not enough that I can consider credible out there. I like the new format. Seems to be more you, doesn't feel as much like an essay and just your own raw thoughts on the level. I do agree with he platforms you have to stand on. I feel like I'm just kind of waiting around and end up getting impatient and doing something stupid and falling. I like the slide though. Always find it fun. Miss an orb? Fuck you. I usually hate fuck you's in games, but sometimes, I quite enjoy them. No rhyme or reason. Navigation wise though I see where you are coming from, it does make backtracking annoying. Dark eco race is my anxiety baby. I missed these :) Glad to see them back.

[@PowercellZeke]

I'm glad you like the new format, and yeah you're right, the older ones felt like an essay written for school than a video. This does however make it harder to write tho as I don't have a template of a structure to work off haha. Yeah same, when I used to use the platforms to get around, I used to get impatient and try to do something to make it fun, but just ended up falling off Glad you liked it mate, no clue when the next one will be though haha

[@dreamscapes2727]

That video is really well-made, interesting, and i liked watching it. Although theres one thing i didn't really like. Sometimes in the video you say something, and meanwhile there is a blackscreen. I think the videos become better, if there is anything else in place of the blackscreen.

[@PowercellZeke]

Glad you enjoyed! That's a good point, but I wasn't really sure what I could out there, so I'll have to think more about it

[@sparr1577]

I kind of hate this level, for some reason not sure why. Except the dark eco challenge I liked that one.

[@Danosauruscrecks]

I miss old naughty dog games. The new ones are good besides a few, but they just lack the imagination crash and jak had in my opinion.

[@ArilandoArilando]

Are you playing this using RPCS3? Are you getting stable framerates and what are your computer specs?

[@PowercellZeke]

Nah this is directly off my PS3

[@ArilandoArilando]

@@PowercellZeke Ah okay i didn't know the lightning on the scout fly boxes was slightly off compared to PS2 even on a real PS3 (that is how i noticed it).

[@PowercellZeke]

@@ArilandoArilando yeah the reflections in the PS3 version can be a bit off

[@SirHubbo92]

Yayyayayayayayaya

[@kenn-fucius]

which port are you playing to capture the footage just curious :)

[@PowercellZeke]

I'm using the PS3 version here

[@AFlemPen]

Rip this channel

[@gunpw7135]

what happerned to this series?

[@20000dino]

I'm glad you took out the unnecessary ear rape jokes you had in previous analysis. They were very unpleasant.

[@PowercellZeke]

Yeah haha. I've become a little more "professional" since then. But I didn't mean for them to be so loud either tho, my editing software at the time didn't tell me how loud they were

[@20000dino]

@@PowercellZeke It's okay. It's a type of joke that a lot of newer videogame analysis youtubers make - and most do grow out of it. Your new format is, indeed, much improved. On another note, is this analysis series still alive? It had been almost an entire year since you put out part 07, and now it's been almost an entire year since part 08 xD

[@PowercellZeke]

@@20000dino haha yeahhh. This year has been pretty tough on me, so video output in general has really suffered. I've also been super busy working on Jak Month, but once the event is over, one of the first videos I want to make is the Boggy Swamp video, I've been really looking forward to writing that one

[@20000dino]

@@PowercellZeke It's okay, I really only discovered you yesterday ! I can wait haha Super excited about the Boggy Swamp video, as it's honestly the less talked about area of the entire game (besides THAT one mission. You know the one.)

[@Capo2209]

Yo wheres the rest my dude? :D

[@thor2598]

🌽

[@antipsychotic451]

I don't know, your commentary on the double-lurker is really infantilizing. Do you seriously think players aren't going to figure out that they need to hit the lurker on top first? It's a simple case of trial and error that even I could figure out as a stupid little kid.