The Best Espresso Grinder Under £500

[@jasonlinn]

James is going to be unstoppable now with a particle size analyzer in studio

[@sanatsrivastava2814]

😂😂😂😂

[@spospartan-104]

His Power is UNRIVALED. What next?!

[@jasonlinn]

@@spospartan-104 electron microscope

[@darandavis]

I think it would be interesting to correlate coffee taste with particle analysis!

[@BenTuhh]

Just you wait until James gets his hands on a particle accelerator next for his coffee testing 😂

[@lowbudgetlogistics]

James, thank you for including the sound in this video. It’s so incredibly important and not enough reviewers are adding it to their reviews.

[@silpheedTandy]

16:23 i laughed out loud and found myself saying "OH MY GOD!" at the Baratza Sette grinder. what a friggin' beast, haha!

[@h3xag0nal]

incredibly important to you maybe. I seem to be in a minority of people who can get over a few seconds of loud noise before a delicious coffee.

[@Catheidan]

@@h3xag0nal you say that now, but imagine that Lagom Mini RC car noise being on the first things you hear every morning. that's gonna grate on anyone.

[@jameshaulenbeek5931]

​@Catheidan that and the Timemore were both harsh with that high-pitched sound. At work, I deal with engines that are around 116-118 dB, but the frequency they run at will put you to sleep.

[@michaellutch1930]

The support from Baratza is very slow. I have on this grinder for several years and anytime I have a problem it takes weeks for them to get back to you .

[@Noyb266]

Paused the video to thank you for saying these can be end-game grinders for most of us. There’s a lot of pressure to upgrade to the most expensive tool in the espresso world, so that was refreshing to hear.

[@dylanhoward718]

Same. The wanton consumerism in the coffee world is crazy.

[@QuantumHistorian]

At some point, it becomes more about wanting to have the shiniest toy than about what the device can actually deliver. You see the same thing with other hobbies: audiophiles spending thousands on their set ups, gamers breaking the bank to get the latest rig every generation, or petrol heads buying a sports car based on how fast it is around a circuit when they have no intention of ever racing with it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to own a cool high-tech thing because it's cool and high-tech; pretending that you'll use it to its full capacity and genuinely appreciate the improvement in its output on a day-to-day basis is (for most people) a little lie they tell themselves.

[@marcusslade9804]

A tip of the hat and well said. I thought exactly the same thing.

[@thorstenl.4928]

Agree 100%

[@benmulleady7266]

Agreed. The law of diminishing returns is very real in espresso gear

[@RoundEjy]

I’ve had one of these grinders for 2 years and the coffee industry is so focused on “the next upgrade” or “the end game product” I felt like I just HAD to upgrade. I was looking at the pricey flat burr grinders like they were going make my espresso so much better. After talking to someone who has the same grinder as me and is perfectly satisfied with it and now watching this video I feel a bit like the ungrateful child who always wants more. I’m gonna keep my grinder and be happy about it. Thanks for the video Hoffdaddy.

[@Emily-hd9sm]

Hoffdaddy LOL that sent me. But that aside, being satisfied with what you have is hard when the industry is always buzzing about flashy new things. So I think it's commendable that you were able to take a step back and really ask yourself if you needed that upgrade!

[@JusBThankful]

I find it hilarious you're subscribed to "Shawn" Ryan. Oddly, I checked and hoped you would have been 🫡

[@SkyForceOne2]

its just a freaking grinder after all. at a certain point, its all in your head.

[@scrumpymanjack]

​@@SkyForceOne2Grinder's at least as important as the espresso machine - a fact you must already know if you're watching this video.

[@Iceman-xe7jo]

It’s marketing. They arent insanely better than one another. People are compulsive buyers especially ones that are OCD about their coffee. What really is going to make your coffee stand out is good fresh roasted coffee.

[@ductrung3993]

James's gear comparison videos are rare but they are quite a joy to watch!

[@ductrung3993]

And I hope a filter one will come out soon!

[@cybertonto72]

How to spot another gear head :) Doesn't matter the hobby we all love the gear !! :D

[@ductrung3993]

@@GriuGriu64 nor the knockers, wondering what he likes then

[@ariadnavigo]

The fact that James has been publishing so much scientific analysis about coffee *for free* on KZbin for all of us to learn how to make better coffee is a gift. I'm not only referring to this video, but many others he has published in the past. (And his books are a treat too!). Thank you, James! ❤☕

[@LasstUnsSpielen]

We do all pay for it.

[@alienxj]

Glazing so bad

[@QLAM]

I've had Lagom Mini for over a year. We make 2-3 espressos a day with it and 1-2 pour overs. Our lattes are better than local coffee shop, no complaints. Pour overs are great. As is any other filter coffee we've made. The BIGGEST pro for this is that my wife really likes the size and design AND she she has no issues using it.

[@hotfishy]

Wife's approval is the most important pro!!

[@grady60]

How are you doing yr milk for yr lattes?

[@bentrademark]

@@grady60 you can install an optional steam wand to the grinder. That way you can steam milk for your lattes if your espresso machine can’t.

[@Frag-ile]

I have an issue with it's name. Lagom is a Swedish word for "just the right amount" and then they go and slap "mini" onto it which just doesn't work, you can't have a miniature variation of something that is supposed to be lagom.

[@seanjohnston848]

Does yours have numbers? The lack of numbers or clear indication is really odd.

[@CharlesManuel1]

Me: watches 40 minute grinder video Also me: scoops coffee out of my vitamix with a soup spoon

[@nik0001-d6i]

😂 I’ve done as well.. you are not alone. 😅

[@inviktus1983]

UNCLEAN

[@henkkok9437]

Broh! 😮

[@Mindfulbanterofficial]

😅😅😅😅 real

[@joepangean6770]

It seems to me, if I were a grinder manufacturer, that I would use James as a testing consultant on the prototype before scaling to manufacture. He certainly appears better at critiquing features per a "real world" consumer perspective than the engineers producing product models. Reminds me of Dyson which never actually uses the innovative product the way it is supposed to work.

[@thud0R]

This must cost some

[@ian-duh]

Frankly I bet they probably don't wanna budget for him. I bet he makes more off the content he makes on fresh reviews than manufacturers want to pay him.

[@brenster21]

There is a large difference between buying a reviewer and consultant.

[@brettkeller8168]

Pretty sure he was a consultant on the Simonelli Mythos

[@stujansen]

3 years with my Niche Zero and it’s never missed a beat. Gives me everything I need for espresso, great work flow, and I LOVE the noise it makes. Recently got an 1zpresso hand grinder for filter and travel. Every new grinder that comes out always gets my interest and promises to be the one for me, but reviews like this help it feel like there’ll always be something missing. Happy to call my current set up end-game for me. Thanks James!

[@colew123]

I agree! It's never missed a beat. I love it too. I also have a 1zpresso for filter, but I bit the bullet and bought a 078 for filter. 😅

[@anthonybotonis5841]

Love my niche and need no other

[@cuteraptor42]

It's definitely the best sounding grinder in this video

[@anthonybotonis5841]

Because Niche is a conical bur and doesn't require high rpm it doesn't need to be started prior grinding and the work flow is not matched by the other grinders and if you like dark roasts for espresso and latte or caps then you need look no more, also the quiet low pitched grinding I love this grinder

[@JE11OW]

im exactly the same! v happy with my 1zpresso ZP6 for filter :) and my little niche chilling at home and doing my espressos well

[@wezzla]

My wife asked me to get a less noisy grinder. I started to look into that but soon I fell into the black hole of grinders. After weeks of researching I was about to pull the trigger on a big helios when my coffee gear dealer help me snap out of it. I walked out with a Eureka Mignon and never looked back.

[@philindeblanc]

I have had the Eureka for years, and it can grind, but it CANNOT grind, and then try a different coffee dialed in or even go back to your old setting. IT SUCKS, and wastes coffee. If you stick to theSAME coffee it is great, but I like trying different beans, and its a NIGHTMARE. There is ZERO indication as the wheel needs to spin multiple times to adjust. If you plan on doing any filter then back to espresso...FORGET IT! SO I am getting rid of mine.

[@arturotinajero11]

I've had my DF64 Gen 2 for about 3 months and paid about $382 (I'm guessing some promo). I'm very happy with it. I make filter coffee everyday and espresso maybe 4 days/week. Very easy to dial in and to clean the burrs. I was between that and the Niche Zero, but for the price it was a no-brainer for me. I was just waiting for James' approval of that grinder lol.

[@marck.5116]

I'm about to buy it. The only thing holding me back is the sound...is it that loud?

[@arturotinajero11]

@@marck.5116 It’s nowhere near to being quiet. Unfortunately I don’t own another grinder to compare them. But it’s not a noisy-deal breaker to me.

[@trickystitch]

@@marck.5116 I have a Gen 2. It is loudish but the sound itself grates more than the level of sound. It's smooth and quiet when running without beans. Putting the beans causes the grating. 6-8 seconds worth typically. I will/would live with it, as in terms of overall value for money, it's great.

[@VoicelessScream]

I personally love my DF64 (v4 I believe). I actually 'sidegraded' from a Eureka Mignon Specialita and it was the best coffee decision I ever made. While it is on the louder side of things while grinding, it doesn't matter much to me. Cleaning it (burrs) doesn't really require taking it apart (which is tooless anyways) and dialing works very well. It does get messier with larger particles (at filter level) but nothing a quick wipe won't manage. For the price paid, it's a no brainer (ordered directly from df64coffee or similar, ships from Singapour I believe ?)

[@deanpatmor6991]

I make both filter and espresso with my Sette 270 every day. The ability to switch back and forth easily is important to me and the Sette has consistently yielded excellent results.

[@Girvo747]

Yeah. It might be loud, it might be plasticky, but it makes phenomenal coffee :)

[@jasondean9631]

I have the Sette too. Using it mostly for espresso the last 3 years with no issues at all. I’m just getting into V60 pour over. Can I ask what grind range you find good for filter - V60 and auto drip machine?

[@rocketsfancheif]

I've had a sette for 9 months and love it for espresso. I read once online it was bad for filter so I just hand grind. What's your filter/espresso setting? I'm at 17C for espresso.

[@anttitenhunen4725]

I have Sette 270 Wi with the built-in scale. I think the weighting makes it great and very easy to use with pretty consistent doses ^^ I actually bought Wilfa Uniform for filter coffee because of the hopper that makes it too much a chore to change from espresso to filter and back :D

[@stupetify]

It will be hard to compare machines, I have a sette 270 as well and the exact settings you use for espresso grind will depend on the burrs and how many shims you have put under the burr@@rocketsfancheif. I use ~6D currently for my espresso but I have one of the shims installed.

[@paulhearne9898]

Have used the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Dose grinder for between 3 and 6 espressos every day for just over a year. It is built like a tank, sounds quality and volume is good and it’s so quick that the noise lasts for less time. Don’t use it for filter (have a Kinu M47 for V60/Aeropress) but love it for espresso.

[@sinosoul]

How are you dealing with the bellowing? Does it blow fines everywhere?

[@bigglyguy8429]

@@sinosoul I have the older Specialita and bought custom-made bellows for it. It's just nice to know you don't have stale coffee from yesterday it.

[@slimerone]

James is a legit reviewer , so clear and friendly

[@im_Spade_]

He's one of the most clear and friendly people I've ever seen lol

[@ArthurKhazbs]

Also noteworthy is how despite having a lot of knowledge, experience and opinions in the filed he still remains a curious and open-minded person who always strives for more and respects the opinions of others.

[@JoeGugel]

Just got the DF64 gen2. Excellent build quality. Nowhere near as loud as I was anticipating from KZbin reviews. I was wishing for this video ~3 weeks ago when I placed my order. Your detailed analysis is appreciated!

[@penleypepsi9510]

Is it good for both filter and espresso?

[@JoeGugel]

@@penleypepsi9510 It's held up, has the range, and obviously better than the built-in grinder on my Breville Barista Express. That said, I've been doing aeropress more than filter with it

[@JoseCastillo-ol8eh]

​@@penleypepsi9510yes

[@GarrickStaples]

I really want the DF64 gen 2, but it seems like it screams like a banshee!

[@dangale6969]

A 40 min Hoffmiester video on my Friday afternoon, I must have been good this year, Christmas came early, let me get a fresh brew and relax 🔥☕️

[@h3xag0nal]

Hoffmeister

[@0whitestone]

Yes! I love the longer format

[@jaymerryfield]

I appreciate James’s comments about the Eureka grinder. I chose a Mignon for my espresso grinder, and fully concur with the UI issues; the stepless grind adjustment is not useful for multiple brew methods but awesome for dialing in one specific method. I find that Eureka grinders seem to be lost in the online conversation about the newest and hottest grinders, when they are solid, well built, refined performers who do their job without too much fuss.

[@manuelsigrist3789]

I would actually like another adjustment wheel on my mignon - switching between two different beans can be a bit frustrating since the small wheel sits quite high above the indicator mark... switching back and forth between two espresso settings is always down to some readjusting. I also found the alignment of the two burrs to be a bit of a weak spot. It can be quite a bit of work to get the two burrs perfectly leveled. love the grinder but I probably would go for another option now.

[@CreepyBigfoot]

​@@manuelsigrist3789which one would you go for? I would like to switch between decaf and normal beans easily. Can't get the niche unfortunately though...

[@sinosoul]

There’s a ton of chatter about the mignon specialitta on Reddit etc. tons of people modding it into basically a oro. The oro is just too expensive for what it is.

[@ismiregalichkochdasjetztso3232]

I got the Timemore 078s during kickstarter for what is now the list price of the 064s, and I couldn't be happier. Great grinder.

[@smellylettuce]

Nice! Still waiting on mine to ship. Really looking forward to it.

[@Pandabrah_D]

Same, I just got mine a week ago and my light roast pour overs have never been brighter and tastier. It also check off all the marks in aesthetics for me so I'm glad James approves as well haha

[@briers9]

Love mine too. Unbelievable grinder.

[@NeilNatic]

Waiting on my 078 🥹😭

[@docforven]

ive read/seen videos suggesting that the espresso range is very tight and that a small turn of the dial can change the output time by quite a bit (like, 1 tick = 10 seconds). Has this been your finding?

[@SKG-d2t]

I have been using my Sette for a year now. It works for both espresso & pour overs and is clean operating with very low retention. There is nothing in its price range comparable. In line ups like this the Sette gets short shrift because less to discuss. The worst thing to point out is the sound, but the speed makes it last only10 seconds at a time. This is a solid performer at an exceptional price. Thank you for the plethora of content this month, it is like getting extra presents.

[@ThePoisonousFish]

sorry to correct you, but retention is typically >= .7 grams, which for e.g. a classic standard equals 10%. i'm still using it myself (always dumping the first gramm), but it just baffles me how some people can complain over tiny things like particle distribution while others dismiss facts in the (huge) ten percent range.

[@JasonGabler]

@@ThePoisonousFish "classic stander" is 7g in?

[@TainakaRicchan]

I have a Sette for 5 years or so now and am still very happy with it. Yes, it is like starting a jet engine, but that never bothered me that much. What I really like is the easy if cleaning and that is has almost zero retentions, because of the open burr. It also ahs been very easy to 3D print a single dose hopper :)

[@Shazbat5]

And the speed of the Sette is insanely fast.

[@Abdullah-cj2mh]

Is it similar to the Encore ESP? It’s the one I’m planning to get so I hope the taste review of the Sette is similar. I think they have the same or at least very similar burrs.

[@TainakaRicchan]

@@Abdullah-cj2mh From the pictures it seems based on the Sette 30, the "little Sister" of the sette 270 (which has two rings to adjust grind size) I would expect the Encore ESP to taste very similar to the Sette 30, but I hevn't tried the 30, just the 270, where you have much fienr control over the grindsize, due to the non-setpped fine adjustment ring.

[@michaelfisher7841]

DF 64 Gen 2 for me. It now comes with an extra metal attachment to the top of the cup which doubles as a great collar and makes the grinding and prep a lot less messier. Very happy with this grinder.

[@stevesam96]

Wish this was pointed out in the video. The attachment can also be used on a 58mm portafilter.

[@ellgareclaire]

df64 gen 2 comes with cup extender/dosing ring which makes the cup closer to the exit chute so it does not make any mess when you use the bellows

[@im_Spade_]

Good to know. I'm pretty interested in that one as my first electric grinder. I've been using a hand grinder by 1ZPRESSO for over a year now

[@ilkzode1822]

1zpresso k ultra tasted 99.9 % of the time better than my previois df64 and df83!!!

[@scout8112]

I always use the extender ring and pump with the bellows on the DF64 before all the coffee has been ground, so hardly any coffee is spilt.

[@lefty77713]

Yep. Also, if you press with the correct pressure, you can get the bellows to not make a mess even without the ring. But the ring makes everything better. Also for what it's worth, it looks REALLY good in white, as opposed to the cheaper looking black that seems to be the standard.

[@vegitax]

I've had my Niche for over a year now. I paid ~800€ for it with taxes and haven't really regretted buying it even for a second. Makes excellent filter coffee and superb espresso. It's my first real espresso grinder and will probably be my last too. It's built like it's going to last a lifetime and it is highly serviceable.

[@aaronboggs5799]

I’ve had mine for roughly the same amount of time and feel similarly. Mine has been on espresso duty exclusively until recently, and I’ve been happy with the filter results, too. To be honest, I wonder how much more I could get from a higher end grinder - right now I think the limiting factor may actually be my palate. For now, I’ll continue working to develop that, along with my technique.

[@ebusive]

I'm glad you touched on sound quality and quantity. Really reinforced my decision to get the Niche. I don't want to end up hating any part of my workflow and a shrill and loud grinder would definitely detract from it

[@LifestyleLab_]

Thanks for the shout out James! An excellent run down as always. Having only experienced 5/7 of these grinders myself it was an interesting watch

[@daisdead]

To reduce retention with the Lagom Mini and minimize that waiting game, I've found that removing the top, and lightly tapping with your palm accomplishes the bellow function. I think most hands have a large enough palm given the grinder's size to create the air seal to push air through when tapping. Hope this helps!

[@alexanderrivero8467]

they make aftermarket 3D printed bellows specifically for the lagom mini, and if you don't hate bellows like James does, they're a lifechanging attachment.

[@frederickbottger2854]

I just pick it up and blow on it, and make sure I don’t stick my tongue out so it doesn’t get caught in the burs, very little grinds actually come out though, I’m not sure why I still do this.

[@JanGottschau]

exactly super easy and works perfectly just keep it running and thump it :)

[@Fuuntag]

James doing a product roundup in a price bracket; like a warm childhood blanket. ❤

[@velvetvert9431]

I adore my lagom mini. I make espresso for drinking as a long black with splash of oat milk, or oat milk latte, and it works perfectly for that. The form factor is the real winner though. Between that and the wee bambino plus I can have a coffee station that doesn't get in the way in the kitchen. Admittedly I mostly watched this video for soothing background coffee chat.

[@magnum_toboggan]

Literally my exact same set up, and wholeheartedly agree. The quality of shots I can get w/ this combo rivals & exceeds the majority of my local coffee shops. For under $1000 total, really hard to beat.

[@turtleanton6539]

It looks so cool !

[@LLS.R]

I have the DF64 V5. I am using it with the round declumper thing, a stainless steel cup and angled holder. Works like a charm. No mess and not a lot of static. I think the DF64 is still the best bang for your buck grinder.

[@ElBoyoElectronico]

I have been rocking the Eureka Mignon Specialitta for 4 years and it still produces great results. I bought a 3d printed single dose modification, but hardly ever use it. For travel purposes my old Commandante C40 still does a great job. I feel no need to ever upgrade with this setup.

[@catastrophicblues13]

I have a Sette 270Wi, which doses by weight, and I love it. It's noisy as hell, but it also turns out that I'm an incredibly deep sleeper and even that thing in the kitchen didn't really bother me. I love that I can set the weight and forget about weighing my beans. I don't really see the problem with the buttons and the display, I think it has a charming, retro look to it that it does pull off quite well. I did once manage to get it stuck after I took out the burr and it refused to go back in, so I had to spend about $100 for repair....but I do love it as an owner.

[@ritaweygint4038]

Eureka Mignon Zero here. Got it as an “Open box” discount (Under $350.00) but it was as new. It is heavy, but very quiet and is a beautiful machine.

[@B1gC4st]

Want to redo the video for grinders under 200?

[@bluetoad2668]

If you're spending that little on your grinder what are you doing watching James?

[@DaarkCloud]

​@@bluetoad2668James could be the best person to ask. He could find the hidden gem

[@petercopland7497]

Dont be a putz​@@bluetoad2668

[@petercopland7497]

​@@bluetoad2668stop being a putz

[@14Ramjet]

With the DF54 released, they aren’t wrong that a grinder around $200 should be revisited

[@holbek86]

Another that would have been great for this comparison would have been the Varia VS3 (2nd Gen). Owned it for a couple months now, and loving the results. A huge step up from my Barista Pro built in grinder

[@bobololish]

Totally agree VS3 is in top3 with niche and df64 for me

[@holbek86]

@@bobololish I was debating Lagom Mini or VS3, so would have been nice to see both being compared by James the Great

[@CoffeeDJN]

I agree, wish he would have added it

[@amitmargalit4551]

The VS3 is too similar to the lagom mini. I don’t think this would bring much to the table

[@bobololish]

@@amitmargalit4551 VS3 seems way faster than Lagom Mini and got 38mm burrs i think vs. 48mm for the Lagom so worth a comparison I guess Burr size is almost my only concern about VS3 I’m afraid of espresso light roast with it And I’m not really fan of the lagom mini for reason James pointed out (grinding time, dialing, and I’m not really fan of global design)

[@matthewfroese3889]

I've been using a Mignon Zero at home for a few months now, and honestly very happy with it. I did buy it exclusively for espresso, and I'm not the kind of person that wants to think about upgrading the parts on my machine. I've enjoyed that it's a quiet, clean, and consistent machine. If you don't want to spend any time thinking about your espresso grinder, it's a great (if boring) choice.

[@sinosoul]

Did you choose the zero cause it was cheaper than the specialitta? Or cause you didn’t want the digital screen?

[@Tobez]

The niche zero sounds WAY better than most grinders I've heard.

[@toasterboy708]

It’s got its own, very distinctive note that is a pleasure to hear in the mornings.

[@8pin]

I love the sound of our Niche waking me up from bed. I immediately start imagining the pleasure of the tasty morning espresso coming in a minute or two… I feel like I will never need another grinder. ❤

[@Mebibit]

As a Baratza Sette owner, I wish I could still hear things.

[@toasterboy708]

@@8pin and then the silence of my Cremina as I’m pulling a shot… something just Zen about the pairing.

[@toasterboy708]

@@Mebibit RIP your eardrums, and your partners sleep in.

[@dingus153]

I have absolutely zero complaints with my Sette 270wi, it's worked flawlessly since I got it a few years ago and I'm so glad I splashed for the weight based dosing. It's loud, sure, but being a straight through grinder I've found it pretty clean to use

[@thomaslowry7813]

I have the same grinder and it has been great. I did have one issue with the motor. They replaced it without question and the replacement motor was much quieter than the original. Grinding into the catch bin is way easier and less messy than direct into the portafilter, and the scale seems as accurate as my coffee scale.

[@Counterflak]

Shoutout to my fellow Timemore backers, we got the Hoffmann tick of approval 😂

[@saulkyut]

064s master race!

[@VarmDild]

I would really like to hear him compare the 064s and the 078s! (I got the 078s)

[@saulkyut]

@@VarmDild are there issues with the 078s? I think it boils down to what you can afford. As someone who’s more tight on the budget, I could only afford to back the 64s at that time. But if I could, I would’ve gotten the 78s

[@briers9]

I love my 078s. I’ve had so much consistency and ultimately a whole new world of flavour and discovery with it and the various beans I’ve put thorough it. Even a bad shot on it tastes better than some of the best shots I managed on the sage pro grinder before.

[@JamesScholesUK]

I backed early and picked up the Timemore 078 for under £500. One minor UX issue is that it's not super easy to see exactly what grind setting you're on at the fine end, especially of your coffee corner isn't well lit. I've used a chalk pen to more clearly mark the lines and it makes a huge difference. Definitely an end-game grinder for me until life circumstances dramatically change.

[@tylerwright6006]

Finally! A grinder review for the grinders I actually look at :P putting them all head to head! I backed Timemore and got the early bird special, but before that I was looking at the X54, the Niche, and the mignon. :P This will be fun to see them all stacked against eachother :) Ill update after finishing the video

[@pretty_okay]

I have had my sette 270 for two years now and I still love it. The only downside is the sound of a starting yet engine every time when you want a coffee. But i can live with it.

[@purepepsii]

This can only mean that we may be getting a revamp for: best espresso grinder under £1500, best espresso machine under £500 and best espresso machine under £1500 👀

[@kingmidas430]

One can hope!

[@DaddyMakesCoffee]

Dude actually is out of creative subject. Last station of coffee content train. 😂

[@demetergrasseater]

​@@DaddyMakesCoffeenew grinders come out every year. It makes sense to revisit lists like these

[@purepepsii]

@@DaddyMakesCoffee also the home coffee market is much more sophisticated compared to when those videos originally came out. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw product comparison videos for grinders and espresso machines around the £3500 mark

[@DaddyMakesCoffee]

Come on! Tones of same product reviews. Every year new product? Or revised one. Soon we will find out.

[@bobgruner]

I had a Sette 270Wi for a couple of years, but I mostly make pourovers, and found that it produced too many fines, to the point that the filter would get clogged the brew would take forever. Plus it was a pain to keep clean - coffee dust got into every nook and cranny and it was kind of a pain to take apart. On the plus side, Baratza customer service was a pleasure to deal with. I had to send the grinder back to them for repair and they updated the electronics to turn it from a 270W to 270Wi for free. (I should note that Baratza does not recommend using the 270Wi as a single dose grinder - something about having a full hopper helping with it dialing in the weight calculation.) I sold the Sette after getting a Niche, which I liked quite well. It makes great expresso, but it also produces a lot of fines (it's really easy to clean, though). I still wanted something for my daily pourovers, so I got a Lagom P64 with unimodal burrs, which is outside the price range of James' review. It produces very few fines compared to the Sette and the Niche (it depends on the coffee), but it's not as easy to get into and clean as the Niche, unfortunately. However, I love the coffee I make with even though it's overkill for pourover.

[@sammu]

Valuable Friday video for us peasants. I have the Sette, only complaint is that it's WAY too loud. I also had no clue Baratza was bought out by Breville. This doesn't make me happy.

[@chton]

Likewise, i don't like that news. I guess we'll find out where they take the brand.

[@dubinmarks1]

I like my 270wi... added a pice of acoustic fome behind it and it sits close to my espresso machine so for me it is not quite but better... Hope Bevel leaves it alone

[@Silatas86]

Breville purchased Baratza in 2020. Since then, they have used Baratza conical burrs in the new Impress lineup of machines and they still ha e fantastic customer service. I have a second hand Baratza Forte that had a lot wrong with it (touchscreen had dead zones, burr carrier was messed up, etc.). But, for $112 they repaired/replaced everything except the burrs themselves. So far, Breville has been doing some smart things in regards to Baratza.

[@jake7808]

@@Silatas86 Baratza burs are also in the Breville Barista Pro

[@mitch_jacobs]

I’ve been using the niche zero for almost 2 years now based off the recommendation in the original video however many years ago and have loved it. Overtime you learn to master some of the little quirks that now almost never hinder my workflow. The most important I found was labeling the ring for my favorite coffees and brew methods. V2 would be cool to have those programmable and then obviously the motor run while the hopper is open.

[@chton]

I've been running a Sette 270 (Wi version, with the scale) and it's been absolutely great. I do grind directly into the portafilter, though, and i've never noticed any clumping. Definitely a very noisy one, though, but made up for that by grinding so quick. I'd rather have 7 seconds of loud than 30 of medium sound :D

[@AppleGameification]

I really hate the sound of the Sette 270 in my kitchen 😢😢 would rather wait in peace for a quiet grinder. I'm rarely in a rush to make coffee. And when I am, for example, when serving guests, the noise really gets in the way all the same.

[@loonator1995]

I do agree with most things. The big big advantages for the Sette are no clumping and almost no retention. But the looks and the sound are honestly just really really bad. Pricing was the biggest factor when I bought it three years back. Would buy the Niche now and probably will at some time if there is no new competitor.

[@jgauth2]

Love my sette 270 wi

[@chton]

@@AppleGameification Very fair! I'm not in a rush either, but the convenience of going from an empty cup to a full cup in a minute flat makes up for it, for me.

[@stuartboros7693]

Not only is there no clumping, I’ve found that even going directly into the portafilter, no wdt is needed with my 270wi.

[@ronbuck9791]

I have had a Gen 1 DF64 for well over a year now. I am now using 4 sprits of water after weighing my beans and am very satisfied with the limited to no retention and little static I get with this machine using this method. The new DF64 seems much improved but I don’t think I can justify upgrading. The espresso I am getting is great. I have a Bezzera Aria which paired up well with this grinder for my purposes. Thanks for your channel. I always enjoy the content.

[@mikeghanley]

The best upgrade for any DF64 owners (I have the original) is to 3D print a holder for the grind cup that angles the cup and move it closer to the nozzle. I only get static and mess when grinding coarse, for daily espresso it works flawlessly and cost very little!

[@tobymarol7329]

I've changed the declumper to a thinner foil type one and now it doesn't need the bellows and is much less messy. , that would be my no1 recommendation

[@raspaccio]

I bought the Niche years ago after watching your review, and I still love it! It has quirks for sure (the grind size indicators are completely wrong) but it looks really nice on the counter, it is very quiet (for a grinder) and the consistency of the coffee that comes out of it is excellent. A belated thank you for that review/recommendation, James 🙏

[@OTNCBC]

Which grind settings work for you for different methods? All the best.

[@raspaccio]

@@OTNCBC When I am doing pour over I often set the grind size indicator in the region where the hinge of the "lid" is. And for espresso I set it on the letter "e" of the word "fine". Of course it all the depends on the individual coffees... hope that helps.

[@jbneal2k8]

I just bought the Df64 with the sap high uniformity burrs after trying to stick with a virtuoso+ for espresso. Quality of grind from it is impeccable, machine is easy to use. No regrets after going between this and the niche for the last few months as to which to buy. Much appreciated your gen1 review of the df64, it allowed me time for me to make a much better purchase decision!

[@marshallgoldberg8376]

I used a Sette 270 for over a year. When my wife switched to decaf, I wanted a second grinder and bought a Sette 270wi. WOW! It is so fast to use! I just dump beans into the hopper, and it doses exactly 17 grams every time, directly into my portafilter. I pop a collar on, WDT, tamp, and brew. It also makes dialing in new beans much easier. When done for the morning, I close the hopper, remove it, and dump the extra beans back into the bag. The convenience and quality is well worth it.

[@GrantGuarino]

I’ve had a Niche for a few years now, still going strong! I have also noticed though that it does produce a decent amount of fines, especially when grinding for filter coffee. I’ve also had the same experience with the coarseness setting for filter coffee sort of being “off the charts” or past the grind setting markings.

[@kevadu]

I also have had a Niche for a while and all these years I've been grinding filter on the fine end of its range...well, my most common filter is Aeropress which isn't as sensitive but still...

[@Cjur]

I love my Niche, but I've just accepted that it produces too many fines for my pour over filter.

[@OTNCBC]

Any recommended grind settings/times for aeropress? @@kevadu

[@OTNCBC]

Do you have any specific recommended grind settings that you've found works great?

[@feilik]

I found the fines issue tough with affordable grinders. I hd several Wilfas which were worse. With the Niche I used to slowly load the dose bit by bit which made a difference but these days I just adapt my pourover technique to fines, zero agitation works well.

[@vbcv1]

In times of pc yt comparison reviews, its refreshing to see when James picks a winner for himself and isn't afraid to explain why. His vote may not be always aligned with his audience, as df64 gen 1 came to be one of the most popular grinders out there, but timemore did a great job in making a very competitive and capable grinder.

[@Creativitybias]

The Df64V in my view is a more direct competitor for the Niche, considering it's price point. Sill a bit cheaper at around 600€ it's a great grinder, though obviously as in most iterations of the DF series, the quirks are definitly there. The motor tends to stall easily on low rpm and the rpm display is always on (which is quite fixable though). However the magnetic chute and the overall build quality are just pretty phenomenal. Definitly deserves a closer look.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

DF64V is more a match vs The Timemore 064s Specs wise.

[@charleshennings8144]

Have you got a fix for turning of the RPM display bar switching off at the wall?

[@Creativitybias]

Yes, I simply plugged a single port power adapter with a switch between the wall and the DF64V so I can turn it off completely after use. @@charleshennings8144

[@chuckykillerLEB]

For me, having the messy DF64 Gen 1. I still love it, I usually grind 2 pour overs and 2 espresso every day and I can't complain how happy I'm with it. Even with the belows and no Ionazer I love how fast it grinds and how consistent my coffee is.

[@peterdesroches5607]

James, thank you for highlighting/confirming the frustrations that the Eureka line has in switching between filter and espresso.

[@philindeblanc]

I hate my Eureka!!

[@our.latte.journey]

Coffee making has been such a joy since I got my 064S , especially for *ONLY* £270 at early bird price, upgrading from a hand grinder. The wait was definitely worth it 😁

[@bvtc1777]

First off, I think I can speak for most viewers in saying that the new technology you’ve brought to reviews such as the particle size analyzer and more objective sounds testing are fantastic and exactly what we are looking for! Second, I owned the DF64 Gen 2 for a very brief period and it had a myriad of problems. I’m making a video of my own to summarize them, because I think most reviewers have tried the original DF64 and are a bit blinded by the improvements they made on the new machine. I’ve never tried the original, and therefore the gen 2 was not an improvement in any way for me, it was just a decent grinder in some ways that still had several problems. In the weird Canadian market, I was able to get an Ode gen 2 for my workhorse filter grinder and a Varia VS3 gen 2 for an espresso grinder that makes 1-2 espresso a day for the cost of a DF64 gen 2. I’m now very happy with both my filter and espresso, I feel no need to upgrade my burrs in the near future, and my mornings are a lot more peaceful (dang that DF64 gen 2 was loud!)

[@hugotendam5349]

Lol seems a bit much to have two different grinders for filter vs. espresso. Or is this like your main hobby? Just can't imagine doing that for me

[@im_Spade_]

​@@hugotendam5349 nothing wrong with having the right tool for the job if you can afford it both monetarily and physically haha. Though I personally agree it is a bit odd 😜

[@ilkzode1822]

The df64 gen 2 improvementa are embarassing. Silly dial indicator, dosong cup that rattles in the forks, bellows that always makes a huge counter mess, that horizontal flat burr design will always retain alot more coffee in its chamber vs vertical mounts. Yea the plasma generator helps very slighty but damn i still get huge buildup in the chute regardless of declumper design or no declumper at all

[@hugotendam5349]

​@@im_Spade_ true true. I have many BBQ's too so I am a bit of a Hypocrite in this case. I am trying to find out what motivates people to buy grinders. Isn't there one that does it all?

[@bvtc1777]

⁠@@hugotendam5349 haha yes I also thought it was silly to own two grinders each for a specific purpose when there are more and more solid all-purpose grinders on the market. What sold me was the cost. I could make an argument that it’s annoying to switch back and forth since I make both everyday, but that really isn’t enough to justify two grinders. What sold me was that I could get way better filter coffee and espresso that was on par and not have the annoyance of one grinder, all for the original cost I was willing to pay for one grinder. And, it certainly is one of my main hobbies haha.

[@DonegalOverlanding]

Simple, beautiful, quiet, no retention, consistent and with incredibly easy grind adjustments. The NIche Zero is the clear winner for me.

[@glennluteraan4434]

I have a Sette 270 and one nice thing is that it does have an optional burr for pour-over that is a noticeable improvement over the stock espresso burr for that purpose. I have also noticed a much improved experience with the pour-over burr or refilling my Nespresso pods. The Nespresso (used at the office) no longer clogs or is too coarse and thin and it runs my home roasted (Ambex 2kg roaster) coffee at a good speed with excellent results.

[@stevenjohnson891]

I love the data analysis and the particle size analysis you do here. The technical parts are the best parts of life.

[@MDCDiGiPiCs]

Really enjoyed the deep dive into the grinders. As an owner of an old Eureka Mignon, I agree with the frustrations regarding grind adjustment, but that aside, a solid grinder which I purchased second hand for very little money. if I could buy another for the same price, I certainly would & just use each one for different roasts.

[@cjpriustt]

Super happy James is happy with the Timemore too. You never know. It is the optimal size for a home grinder, and is the perfect companion for a color matched Fellows kettle. It’s quiet and quick enough. The knocker works and the clack is assuring. A squirt of RDT ensures zero retention and static. Yeah the hopper can be better but using a brush to herd the beans into the chute works. It’s great for V60 and espresso. If I want more clarity I’ll just whip out the 1zpresso hand grinder. It’s a keeper and endgame until it quits.

[@wouldntyaliktono]

Would love to see someone do Kolmogorov-Smirnov tests on those grind size distributions. That might help give a sense for how meaningful the differences are, espeically given the variance we see on the coarser end of the spectrum. I bet you can get a much smoother probability distribution if you aggregate across a bunch of measurements, too.

[@tommangan7]

Something like that would certainly be useful or any kind of idea of error magnitude. I love James and his videos but the experimental research scientist in me is sceptical whenever a few % differences between lines within the noise spread of the data are referred to as significant or large.

[@wouldntyaliktono]

Same. I spend a lot of time with this kind of data at work and my first thought was whether we can realistically reject the Null here. I'm guessing that kind of math is a bit beyond the scope of a coffee channel. But if James were to start a coffee science sister channel, I'd be the first subscriber. @@tommangan7

[@deeptijmenon]

I bought the sette 270, 3 months ago. I’m so glad to see it up here. It’s loud, but I use it to make 3-4 espressos daily, I haven’t found the sound to be such an issue for me. I have nothing to compare it with though. Was hand grinding for espresso before, this has been a god send. I’m also happy to hear you say that, there is no apparent reason to upgrade from this grinder. As always, love your videos.

[@zacharyn211]

I've been enjoying my varia vs3 2nd gen. Even with an upgrade to hypernova ultra burr set, it's still well below $500. Quite a decent little grinder that provides consistent results.

[@TomWeimer]

The 2nd Gen VS3 has been fantastic so far, and looks far better than any on this list.

[@saeds]

I'm wondering why it wasn't included 🤔

[@DJForgeNC]

some people on reddit mentioned that in the hoff’s patreon they mentioned the varia wasn’t included because it has reliability issues

[@zacharyn211]

@@DJForgeNC ’ve had no issues here; beautifully consistent results i.e. with the VS3 (gen 2)/Hypernova Ultra Burr set. And it’s well within £500, way less actually..

[@DJForgeNC]

@@zacharyn211 that’s good to know because i have a df64 gen 2 but its so loud im thinking of returning it, and the vs3 is on my list to try. i’m actually surprised james didnt mention the sound, given it peaks at 99db in his video

[@KPA78]

used the Sette daily for many years. great consistent drip & espresso grindsYes, its definitely LOUD first thing in the morning. I've replaced the gear drive twice at no cost so customer service from Baratza is top-shelf.

[@christopherchoi6120]

Would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about the Fellow Opus. At $195 (and often on sale), it promises great value, looks great, and could be a bridge between entry and mid-level for many people. As always, thanks for the great videos!

[@MS-qt1co]

I've been using the Mignon for almost two years now, and I absolutely adore the quality of the coffee it produces. I chose it specifically for espresso, knowing it excels in that area. However, for our V60 brewing, my husband and I prefer a manual grinder, which adds to our enjoyment of the process. The grinder's quality is truly remarkable, and it complements our coffee corner perfectly. Seeing it featured in the video brought me even more joy.

[@Mkungaa]

As a Timemore 064S backer I am pretty happy after watching this video. I am really hyped to get it. I bought it for 42 thousand yen at that moment, which was probably best price for single dose grinder I can get in Japan. DF64 Gen 2 right now shows 62000 yen on their website with shipping included.

[@AdamRapW]

As someone who got their 064s a few months ago, it lives up to the hype, especially at the kickstarter price. One note is that some people have had issues with the screws that hold the stationary burr being loose upon delivery and then falling between the burrs during grinding. This kills the burrs. Remove the outer burr before you first use it and make sure all the screws are tight. I checked before using it and one of mine was loose.

[@mixswist]

As another 064s backer who still waiting for mine. At their kickstarter price, it was one hell of a deal even accounting all the waiting time. Hope I will get mine soon.

[@nils8485]

I also received mine a couple months ago and I really like it. I dont like the sound, that really sucks but the rest ist great. For 300$ I dont think you will get a better grinder for that money. The 078s might be the even better deal for the money, but if you wanna spend the least possible amount of money for a good quality grinder, the 064s for Kickstarter price ist unbeatable. Have fun with it guys :)

[@marcinwojcik6622]

I've had mine for over a month now. Pretty happy with it, especialy at kickstarter price😅

[@WalkingCarbon]

hi i got the 078s today.....do you mind clarifying where this loose screw is?@@AdamRapW

[@fransenfiets]

Love my Lagom Mini - crazy good grind and basically no retention, with superb build quality

[@danielzenner]

I've been happy with the Niche Zero for espresso. When I initially got it I used it for filter too, though I eventually purchased an Ode as my primary filter coffee grinder and very recently purchased my "end game" grinder, the Lagom P64, for filter and espresso. I'm going to keep the Niche however, I enjoy the sweet, textured and heavy bodied shots it produces especially when grinding dark roasts.

[@Justme28795]

What made you replace the Niche zero for filter coffee? I'm looking for a grinder which preferably could do both for around 500bucks

[@danielzenner]

@@Justme28795 The filter coffee with the Niche had a lot of body, but lacked clarity and sweetness. I opted for the ode with SSP MP burrs since that produces some of the cleanest tasting cups of coffee. I think if you are into medium and dark roasts the niche is fine for filter but if you are seeking a filter grinder for light roasts, I would look elsewhere.

[@Astro_Mozart]

I've owned my DF64 G2 for about three or four months, and much like Jim, my only gripe is with the bellows. A quick tap after each grind, removing the bellows first, works wonders to prevent any retention issues. Despite cleaning and realigning the burrs recently, they were still in great shape with minimal if at all cleaning required. This grinder consistently delivers the sweetest, clearest espresso with a perfect balance of acidity and a rich body. Considering its price, it excels in Moka, espresso, and filter coffee. And while I primarily enjoy espresso, for the price I paid which was about $371 shipped, I believe this grinder can make anybody happy for years. For now, this is my endgame, and I'll happily die on this hill.

[@LLS.R]

I agree. The DF64 is the best bang for your buck grinder. A little adjusment to the declumper and you are good to go. It’s also my endgame grinder. Not willing to pay a big amount of money for a slight increase in quality.

[@vsevenkrew1464]

I've been using my sculptor 64s for a little over a week and the hopper can definitely be annoying. Pouring the dose in a prolonged way is pretty good at cobatting that. I'm fully enamored with everything else about it 😊

[@0080ff]

I've been using modified bunn bulk grinder and Sette 270 for ages and it works fine for me. I usually have some kind of ear bud or headphone on me so the noise doesn't really bother me at all. Good thing about Sette 270 is hands down their customer service 100%. My gearbox/motor started to malfunction and they actually sent me a new parts for free of charge, along with great tutorial on how to change them.

[@kyleblackmore7900]

Wow! I backed the Timemore 64s on Kickstarter back in May, as my first electric espresso grinder to be used with my Flair Signature and V60. It's still pending to ship (any day now...) but given all of the ups and downs that come with Kickstarter products this is a reassuring video for me. I really enjoyed seeing all the variables compared, especially the particle analysis.

[@nbougeard]

Got it at super early bird price as well, and I was lucky to have it ship a few months ago. “Surprise coffee” and stuck beans are a thing but it’s definitely a very pleasant machine to use (coming from a Vario).

[@cs5250]

078s day 1 backer here and still waiting but it should be here by early January. I just can’t wait to retire my breville grinder after 3 years of daily use

[@em0rej]

Got the same setup 064s and Flair Signature. Really happy that I backed it at launch. It arrived just a week ago but I'm really enjoying the shots I'm pulling.

[@blueaoki1]

⁠@@cs5250You are in for a treat then. I got my 78s 3 months ago to replace my Sage/Brevile grinder, and the result is so much better. And a lot less noisy

[@vbcv1]

It is indeed a great grinder

[@EdreiZahari]

I got the Timemore 064S a few weeks ago (upgrading from a Breville Smart Grinder Pro) and have been using it ever since. The hopper issue (sticking and popcorning) is probably the standout problem especially after RDT, but the unit comes with a brush which I use to push the remaining beans in with no problems. My favourite is that it's much quieter than the Breville, which means that I can make an espresso at 6 in the morning and not wake people up in my apartment. I'm still experimenting with dialing in though because it's producing longer shots with some channelling.

[@helipeek2736]

I purchased a Niche almost 12 months ago to the day and, I’ve been very impressed with it. I only brew single shots and limit myself to two a day so it fits me just fine, although I would agree about the lid cutout switch. However, it’s about to make way for a Kafatek Monolith , which excites me like a 8 year old with a new bike on its way from Santa.

[@ahmeterginkarahan]

Two weeks ago, I published my Eureka Oro Mignon Single Dose unboxing video on my channel. It has only been used for espresso yet and it works as I expected. The metal slot under the dose container is magnetic. If you do not want to use the dosing container, you can grind coffee directly into the basket by placing the portafilter on the metal slot. After pumping the bellows, retention is close to zero. This was a great comparison video, thanks James! 🙌

[@BLR1GBattlemaster]

I'm surprised he didn't compare the 270Wi. It fits the budget, and is the best grinder I've used for workflow. I had the Niche Zero for 6 months and sold it. The workflow from single dosing to the 270Wi is immeasurably better. Grind consistency is better too, surprisingly. The only downfall is the noise.

[@hannylovely5]

I have a Sette 270 that I’ve used almost daily for 2 years and I really enjoy the coffee it produces, both for filter and espresso (I have a V6 Rancilio Silvia for espresso). Sure, I could upgrade and get less sound, fewer buttons, stainless steel build, etc, but for the price and flexibility I’m very happy with my setup, and the coffee I can make at home is always better than what I get at local shops. My only annoying complaint about my Sette is the amount of retention I get, which is usually between 3-5% of what I load into the hopper, so not insignificant. I’m the only one in my home who uses this machine and I still find myself having to clean the burrs and inner chamber much more often than I’d expect for only one user. Overall, I’m satisfied with my setup and not looking to upgrade the whole machine anytime soon. I may just upgrade the burrs themselves and tweak my workflow.

[@ysteinlie2664]

had the sette for three years now. love it to bits. Very little retention has it pay for itself in coffee not wasted in a little more than a year pulling 2-3 shots a day on weekdays and 4-6 shots on weekends. we got the version that doses on weight, super convenient. Very easy to set presets and on the fly bump it up or down a couple of the tenths of a gram on the fly depending on where our machine is on its temperature cycle. It’s a little noisy granted, but dosing straight into a portafilter is no worry what so ever. The portafilter has never fallen out. It grinds very fluffy and light, no need to faff about chasing clumps with paperclips or spray the beans with water. We keep the beans in the hopper. Super convenient with regards to our somewhat rushed mornings. Only real downside that really can’t be mitigated without disrupting the convenient workflow is that it is messy (static) We keep it on a tray sitting in its own mess during the busy weekdays :)

[@anttitenhunen4725]

Spraying really helps the static. I had so much static with some crappy beans that they were all over the place but some better beans somehow created less static 😂

[@FlexWheeler88]

Was about to buy one of the other grinders, waited thought about it, heard about Timemore´s new grinders, did some amateur coffee maths and ended up backing Timemore´s 78s. I´m super happy I got it, a real gem. Glad you like the 64s. I uprgaded from a Porlex hand grinder, although I tried several known grinders from friends, I wasn´t completely happy with them. The 78s seemed like the ultimate move🤷‍♂

[@austinbaker9297]

I’d love to see the Niche duo in a similar comparison. While it’s slightly higher in price when you get both burrs, I’d be interested to know if the updates have helped keep it competitive with newer flat burr models

[@jasongans]

Yeah, I was surprised when James didn't mention the Duo (as he was interested in what Niche will do next) 🤔🤷‍♂️

[@patrickd1791]

I have the Barasta sette. I am very happy with it. Yes it's loud. That doesn't bother me. I single dose every time regardless of what kind of coffee I'm making so the UI doesn't really bother me. I always hot start and I always let it run afterwards, so I have the one button program for 22 seconds and that's adequate for every grind setting I use. They offer a second burr for course grinds that makes a big difference with filter and coffee press. The burr is also very easy to change as you demonstrated how quickly the grind chamber is accessed. My singular complaint; the fine adjustment is difficult to see the exact setting and when changing it you have to be careful to hold the course ring so you don't mess up the overall setting. Definitely not a deal breaker though. I do enjoy the shape of the design, but some better build quality with enameled metal or brushed stainless would definitely be nice. I have no regrets about buying this grinder and I would definitely buy it all over again. With the addition of the supplemental burr, I think it is probably the best suited grinder for someone that drinks a wide range of coffee types requiring a grind anywhere from Turkish to coffee press.

[@jsteph54]

I'd love to see a video comparing grinders in the category you suggested for the Lagom Mini. Ones that kind of thread that needle for entry level coffee enthusiasts that want good to great filter coffee and good espresso, with bonus points for under $400 or so. The two that come to mind are the Fellow Opus and Baratza Encore ESP.

[@MattM-24]

FWIW I kinda like the Mini more than the P100 even for espresso. It might be my favorite grinder and I've tried a lot of them. While the Mini is accessible to entry level, imo the performance solid

[@nihallee]

I use a Sette 30. It's basically just missing the fine adjustment wheel from the 270 and it can easily be added later. I am really enjoying it for espresso. I'm having coffee around 9am, 10am and 2pm so I don't mind the noise too much but I do agree it's very loud. I fill the hopper and use the timer. It's not as precise as weighting the grains but it works pretty good for a no fuss and decently repeatable shot. The fact that the ground are falling directly in the porta filter is simply great. There is almost zero retention and no clumps at all. I don't understand why new designs are still coming out with a front chute. Besides the brutal sound, the other downside is its plastic construction as you mentioned. It just does not feel like it will last a long time. However It's been going strong for 3+ years now and I also know Baratza is selling replacements parts (being able to fix things instead of replacing them is a big requirement for me). Thanks for the grinders review. That was a good lineup in my price range. Cheers!!

[@PlanckRelic]

I have a 30 as well, for several years. Adding the fine adjuster from the 270 is a useful improvement for espresso. The click steps can be a little too big sometimes in my experience, and I find the range on the fine adjust is noticeably helpful. I'm sure it depends a bit on your espresso machine as to how big of a difference it makes, but if you're on the fence I would definitely recommend it.

[@nihallee]

⁠@@PlanckRelic, thanks. I’ve been thinking about that upgrade as well. Could also be better with the static on dryer days since the 270 adjustment rings are made of metal as opposed to the 30’s plastic. Maybe I will gift myself on this xmas day ;0) Cheers!

[@tomsgrinderlab]

Great comparison thanks! Having had most of these grinders but I would have included the Varia VS3 Gen 2 but I do appreciate they are currently hard to get hold off.

[@DrewCommins]

I recently got the DF64 Gen 2 and use it for filter and espresso to replace a Fellow Opus. It originally came with the stock stainless steel burrs and can confirm that they make it LOUD. One point that I don't think people realize is when adjusting the setting from course to fine, you should do it with the motor running. Sometimes, coffee particles get caught between the upper and lower burrs making it almost impossible to adjust down. When making filter coffee with it, I typically use an Aeropress and find that the shoot is the perfect height to just grind directly into the Aeropress. I recently replaced the stock burrs with a set of SSP MP burrs and there is a noticeable reduction in volume plus I like the coffee (filter and espresso) that they produce much better. Overall, I'm extremely happy with it.

[@Yirgamalabar]

The issue with adjusting to a finer grind is also common to some other flat burr grinders. With the DF64V it can be quite difficult to do even if the motor *is* running.

[@stuartb2493]

Would love an explanation of why the niche’s cold start only is a problem. What makes grinding through a running grinder better?

[@haig4977]

I assume it has to do with a motor's time to reach max RPM. A standing start will grind the first beans at a lower rpm than the rest of the beans. What difference this translates to in the cup I don't know... I don't think I personally would notice.

[@deafeningsilence5121]

As someone who has owned the Lagom Mini for over a year now, I really like it! I go back and forth a lot between espresso for lattes, pour over, and french press, and I can confidently say it does all of them decently, though espresso a little less so as you mentioned, but I needed one grinder, preferably travel-able, that could do it all and this one does! I will say though that for french press especially, the almost hard limit of around 35-40g of coffee that will fit in its single-dose chamber is a little frustrating, but my girlfriend doesn't drink coffee so it is usually a one cup operation for me anyways! The aluminum or whatever material the top is made of does dent fairly easily if dropped or bumped with something hard like steel, so watch out for that!

[@gilbycoyote]

I have a Sette for a couple of years now, and there’s a thing i’d like to add for people interrested in it. After one year a tab holding the cutoff switch underneath the hopper broke and i had to 3dprint something to fix it(would probably have been covered by warranty) After two years of usage, (2 shots/day) the worm gear of the motor ate through the ring gear of the burrs and the whole motor assembly had to be replaced. As i could do the work myself, the motor unit was sent to me free of charge from barratza even after the warranty period. I fully expect this problem to reoccur in a year or two which will be a good excuse to move to flat burrs.

[@kamengamer7320]

I just bought a Lagom Mini to gift my girlfriend this christmas! And after watching your review, I think I made the right choice.

[@JohnWilmotAfrica]

It would be great to see a filter coffee first grinder review. You have several (excellent) videos on grinders at various price points, with some secondary focus on filter coffee, but primarily focused on espresso. Would be great to see the range of grinders chosen for the test based on filter coffee needs only (or primarily). Including end-game filter coffee grinders to work towards - some coffee drinkers simply prefer filter to espresso, but still take the hobby very seriously. Thanks for an amazing channel and the wealth of entertainment and knowledge you share!

[@cutelittlemoose]

“If you like bellows, it’s okay, we can be friends” made me laugh so much my eyes teared up, and I typically have quite dry eyes, so thanks for the single origin, natural washed cornea treatment you’ve gifted to me as you evaluate bean grinders. I also DEEPLY appreciate the sound comparison because some are just so awful I felt, even turning the volume down, I would go nuts. A few were quite gentle, probably as much a matter of hefty build materials for some “similar but very unequal” models.

[@sanatsrivastava2814]

I think the best part about James and his reviews is just how unbiased he is. I love how he cuts through the bullshit, we ought to call him chainsaw. For instance when James talks about the bellows and how it is an additional payment for a manufacturer's laziness, I love how accountable he makes the manufacturer instead of selling it like some coffee paraphernalia.

[@joshhodges3252]

I like that this was one part workflow, 1 part science, and 1 part "details that make me angry".

[@marzvrover]

Having owned a Niche Zero for over 2 years now, one point I feel like you missed is related to it’s market upset. It feels like owning piece of home coffee history. Any time i’ve ever considered selling it I’ve quickly decided against it. I’ll keep using it until I get my endgame weber one day far in the future 😆

[@Finance-Food-and-Freetime]

This is so hilariously technical. Great work!