Why Modern Espresso Is So Ugly

It's not really a rant, so much as a chance to talk about water's adhesive properties and portafilter spouts. Or something like that...
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[@tarikljackson]

1. How incredibly specific is this video? 2. How exactly did I end up here?

[@martinaee]

I love coffee... but the more videos and reading I consume on the subject the more I'm starting to understand that not even "coffee people" know what they are talking about when it comes to coffee lol. It all seems super subjective so you shouldn't let people tell you what to like.

[@confusedwhale]

@@martinaee: I think you replied to the wrong person.

[@Runoratsu]

2.-yes! I wonder the same thing. I enjoy coffee-a lot!-but I've never even thought about the change in the look of espresso through the decades, much less about the reasons for it…

[@JohnAzzi430]

I can't tell if this is satire or not

[@knifeyonline]

@@JohnAzzi430 it can't possibly be... how did any of us get her though

[@alanredversangel]

The more I learn about coffee, the less I know.

[@jinagibson6818]

Alan Angel the more I love a coffee, the harder it became to make it. Not all pots are worth buying.

[@JM-fo1te]

Applying the 80/20 principal - this video is kind of useless since he's talking about the 20% of the drinking experience that the majority of people dont care about. Its mental masturbation.

[@hjelliottca]

This goes for any thing worth learning. If a person claims to know everything, they don't know much. Someone who knows a lot knows that there is always more to learn.

[@divadjm]

If it tastes good, you know enough.

[@alanredversangel]

@@divadjm The coffee from my first real machine tasted good years ago. Until the tap water made it taste bad, and I realised the fixed coarseness grinder was essentially useless, and that paper filter was much nicer than gold basket, and the 1-4 cup setting was just dumb when making a bit of extra coffee tastes much better.....

[@keesketsers5866]

I have been into espresso for over 20 years, active on coffee forums and it is exactly like you say. It started out with everyone using the "Italian" rules....you know, 7 to 8 grams, 25 to 30 seconds for 25 to 30 ml. This changed in the US first, they started using massive baskets and massive amounts of coffee and everyone followed. The coffee was impressive looking, lots of crema and lots of slomo video's. I folowed the "new rules". Slowly I moved back to lower amounts of coffee because I started using a lever machine and didn't like the huge doses. I haven't looked on forums for years and so much has changed....gone are the huge doses and thick crema's. Gone is tapping the basket with the tamper. Gone is the polishing twist. Gone are the convex tampers. Gone is stirring the grind. I'm sure it will all change again. What a great hobby this is!

[@rehannoor4961]

ngl i still prefer the classic italian espresso

[@espressomatic]

I've been drinking espresso for over 35 years (since the mid 80's) and I was also serving it commercially at that time. Grinding fresh isn't a new idea or process. The thought that "everything has changed" is preposterous - on a global scale. Go to Italy, Spain, Portugal. Maybe it's changed in the USA, Canada and the UK, but no one in these countries ever knew how to pull an espresso in the first place. And I'll argue that in these countries you still can't get a good espresso in 99% of shops. You know what the biggest difference is from old world to new world? In these European countries "espresso" is not a specialty drink shrouded in mystery. It's just coffee. But in countries where coffee is some vile, bottom of the carafe sitting for hours on a hot plate, it's no wonder people act like they've just discovered the world is round.

[@DanielRBW]

@@espressomatic I wouldn't ever ask for a shot of espresso where I live in the UK. The most recent coffee shop to have sprung up where I live is a shite pun on the name of the town. I will continue to drink the same mediocre cup of coffee the machine makes until I convince the higher-ups to spend 2p a bag more on coffee.

[@stonebear]

I didn't really get into doing my own coffee seriously until 2016 or so but I *remember* watching the baristas *filling* the baskets and twisting the tamper and damn those were some good drinks... but having got into it myself I discovered I really like the nerdery of weighing everything and getting consistently good cuppas _for myself_... What'll be interesting is finding a shop when I get to the Netherlands and seeing how _they_ do it when they're not just running the soulless superautos you see in Albert Heijn...

[@barmalini]

Not everyone has followed it and not everyone will follow it. Just go to Italy and check it yourself, go to Napoli, go to Gambrinus, order a coffee and feel free to cry if you have to, because it is the coffee worthy of the name. Not your usual 20 grams/20 millilitres for a connosaire deprived of test papillae.

[@victorlevivalenciano1755]

This guy looks exactly like someone who would be passionate about coffee

[@blizzbee]

Extremely

[@maximilianfiedler5173]

Thats what the Judges might have thought, while making him the World Barista Champion some time ago.

[@julieguldchristensen5836]

AND sounds like it

[@ryancross7785]

Does he also look like the type to be a self made millionaire with a whole career in it? #judgy

[@brightbluesummer3981]

It’s the glasses I think

[@alboy21]

Thanks for this perspective, James. At least now I can make an argument for why the espresso I make at home looks like crap - if only I could find a compelling argument for why it tastes like crap.

[@noohoozfurra]

Ahahaha. Brilliant... 😂

[@chariotmyth]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@MohamedAhmed-zi1ru]

😂😂😂 u sir made my day

[@novrain62]

Legend!

[@ArcaneCowboy]

Chlorine

[@benjaminentertainment5526]

"Espresso is ugly now" *me sipping instant nescafe*

[@EddieGooch]

@K P Nice hiss

[@galliman123]

"Now that's some quality coffee, let me take another bite of this fudge bar, eww"

[@grizzlymanverneteil4443]

Lol same

[@csmaster65]

If we consider effort vs. payoff nescafe gold is probably _the_ best coffee out there

[@MrJack1987]

@K P Spray dried

[@SecretLars]

I can't focus, he looks too much like a mix between Jeff Goldblum and Steve Buscemi!

[@Gallotti]

Now I know why he looked so familiar!

[@jaclynrachellec]

But like.. better looking than them also.

[@nofam]

Definitely some Woody Allen in there too!

[@epicmonkeydrunk]

It's like a hybrid that looks good looking

[@jamesfletcher474]

And Michael Gove

[@AMYxxLYNNxxROCKS]

From watching you and Morgan I have moved from a regular drip coffee machine to spending all my money in coffee products. I regret nothing.

[@rfldss89]

I'd heard how wild coffee aficionados can be, but I never thought it was *this* wild.

[@tskwared667]

I love coffee but I've never bothered to *get into* it and learn about it. I knew there were a lot of variables but holy shit, this sounds more complex than some math courses I've taken.

[@camper1749]

@@tskwared667 nerd

[@DonjiPicudo]

@@camper1749 Thank you hahahaha

[@pipipipi3087]

Coffee, wine and beer are holy beverages from ancient humans. It can go absolutely to the very end of milky way to explain them.

[@willgreen6289]

tskwared667 basically true. So many different variables and ways to experiment with what you are doing.

[@TheHslade3]

Having roasted coffee and brewed espresso for the last 15 yrs, I had a training session with my bar staff yesterday and many of these same details sprang to mind. Our throw doses have diminished over the years and our liquid volumes increased, to my tastes, producing a much tastier drink. While teaching a crew of very young baristas yesterday though, I felt like I was leaving a lot about espresso unexplored with them. I have watched espresso recipes change dramatically over these years and there are aspects of its various iterations that I miss enjoying - the lush viscosity, the wide variety of coloration, mostly. Limited by time, I don’t have the opportunity these days to teach my staff through the last decade plus of espresso transformation and somehow, it feels as if I am shortchanging them in some way for it. I truly enjoyed the mouthfeel of the heavy-dose ristettos of the past, but I do not miss the finicky nature of trying to make them actually taste great. I can teach them to pull great shots of our current roast profile and recipe with so much more ease than 10+ years ago. Good talk, Jim.

[@t3g3b3]

Do you think that the smaller dose/more liquid has a 'better taste' that is unattainable with older style recipes, or is it just more forgiving and tends to a consistently 'better' cup with less effort?

[@TheHslade3]

t3g3b3 I think that is pretty well put. I wish I could achieve the mouthfeel of those old recipes along with the ease of target acquisition for new baristas (along with the more balanced flavors), but I haven’t figured out how without making the target so small that it moves out of reach for most of them. Perhaps we’ll find it - maybe someone already has and has yet to share! The reality of young staff and somewhat regular turnover on my staff (small rural town) necessitates having a very streamlined training regimen that can be attained quickly. I am our full time roaster and I love my work, but I do wish I had more time to spend with the bar staff on training and education. Time for a bigger roaster, I guess.

[@IshtarNike]

Thumbs up for the mouth feel.

[@vandoren156]

@@TheHslade3 Back in the day you were an apprentice, really starting as a kid and learning to work in a bar, now things have changed considerably even in Italy. In Italy many of us think that its because of how things work now that quality is lower... bars, pizzerias, restaurants... they are all suffering the same change.

[@jamesm5192]

But can you state how do make them taste great without losing the viscosity? Especially for a home user...

[@ellenamarshall2820]

Thank you! This explains a lot. I did my barista training 10 years ago and was taught to look for beautiful, thick drops of espresso. I was confused as to why this part of the process had changed so much. Agree that the range and expression in flavours is far more diverse but sometimes doesn’t hit the mark with the intensity.

[@mcbrite]

I was about to ask this: Given that I like it basically as rich, dark and intense as I can get it, might I actually prefer the "old style" to the current style?

[@floorpizza8074]

@@mcbrite Well, shoot. I'm two years too late for this reply, but oh well... In my opinion, the answer to your question is "yes"! As much as I do enjoy all the research that has gone into espresso over the years, and I do enjoy "today's" espresso, I still *love* "old school" espresso; Darkly roasted, rich, strong, "bite your face off" old school espresso the most. And luckily, since my barista training was in the '90's, I'm quite capable of making exactly that. : )

[@garbleduser]

@@mcbrite As a 28g ristretto person, you have my support. But try blending light and dark roasts for your espresso. It can reveal bread like sweetness.

[@BigTrees4ever]

@@garbleduserdo you have any ratio suggestions for that kind of blending?

[@garbleduser]

usually 50/50 or 75% full city 25% dark@@BigTrees4ever

[@sabarox]

I don't drink coffee. I don't like coffee. I drink tea. Why is this on my recommended page? Why did I click on it? Why did I watch the entire thing?

[@vooveks]

'Cos it's good Yootoobz.

[@quinnlb4412]

You recently were looking for new glasses and KZbin was suggesting his rad red style would look stellar on you ;)

[@dsego84]

come to the dark side ;)

[@Ancyker]

I didn't like coffee either. Was a 100% tea drinker... and then I started playing with specialty coffees. And then the obvious dawned on me. I don't really like Lipton tea or any bagged tea. Can I drink them? Sure. But do I enjoy them? Not really. So why was I comparing high-end loose tea to grocery store preground coffee? So, I started playing with different roasts of coffee, different beans, and different extraction methods. People half-ass coffee just as much as they half-ass tea. But I find half-assed coffee undrinkable, it's bitter, it's awful. Meanwhile, half-assed tea is alright. It's not great, I may not enjoy it, but I'd drink it if nothing else I wanted was available. So, now, I still drink tea, but now it's a 50/50 split between the two. It might not apply to you, but I think it's worth thinking about.

[@ballagh]

This is completely understandable for mystery try Steve1989MREInfo. The number of hours I've spent watching ration pack reviews in a peaceful trance is inexplicable. kzbin.info/door/2I6Et1JkidnnbWgJFiMeHA

[@eNeRatti]

As someone who never worked in the coffee industry I always get fascinated by the depth of an art of making coffee. Makes me appreciate every cup of coffee that I get in my favorite coffee shops so much more.

[@robthewaywardwoodworker9956]

That's how I feel about scotch.

[@notcarlie1710]

I don't even have an espresso machine, why am I here?

[@iphone202020220]

Do you like Coffee? I did not youtube search or google this. It was in my recommended.

[@__-fm5qv]

I don't even like coffee... not really anyway, I like mochas but thats it xD

[@ZNotFound]

I don't drink coffee, but KZbin has been recommending this video to me for days.

[@worawatli8952]

You should look into ROK Presso, budget espresso machine that really worth it. You can explore a lots on espresso without spending on expensive machine, get the similar result but on quite a learning curve.

[@grimecritic6511]

I don’t even like coffee 😂🤷🏽‍♂️😬

[@TheCloudhopper]

This is the most specific pretentious load of bollox that KZbin has recommended me in MONTHS. Love it, left a like.

[@Artimesify]

I completely agree😂. Better than the usual weird far left and right propaganda I usually get

[@Templarfreak]

I don't think this is so pretentious, I think the dude just has a deep love for coffee and loves these little details. You tend to find yourself obsessing over every tiny little detail about something you love dearly.

[@themisterier]

How can you justify your claim? We coffee people got research publication as our base, bollox

[@infn]

Pretentious, no. Incredibly nerdy, yes.

[@evenflowcss]

Being pretentious means talking big without knowing what you talk about or what it means. Given how much James Hoffman knows about coffee (check out his channel), I wouldn't call this pretentious.

[@Darieee]

Watched some stuff of yours before Now I'm certain you're crazy Subscribed.

[@adamcravets5408]

I just subscribed because of this comment.

[@scouthanamura2380]

@@adamcravets5408 I just subscribed because of this reply.

[@maciej_ma]

I love this scientific approach to coffee. It is nice to know how espresso was made, how it changed and why. More videos like this please. As always great material James 😁

[@olbananachips8387]

I don’t know why this was in my recommendations, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[@nosedive44]

Same

[@DavidRichardsDC]

I learned to make espresso at a tiny coffee shop in Ladue, near St Louis. It was called Laduzzi. That was 1997 I believe. The owner had a secret source of coffee beans that she would never disclose. I remember they were super oily. The coffee we made was unbelievably great. To this day I think it's the best coffee I've ever had. Maybe it's because it was my first espresso drinks. I just came back from Italy last week and I'm not so sure that it was better there. So, I do miss the old coffee from the '90s! Lol.

[@VineetKumar-js1do]

Wow. 🔥🔥👍👍

[@sl5536]

Hey James, I have been a coffee professional for a number of years now, and I am incredibly interested in your thoughts on a few things. For starters, I think epsresso now IS beautiful. I have worked in shops that still operate the 'old' way. Heavy baskets (22-25g), thick shots and plenty of tiger striping. In fact, this was my first ever cafe job. The beans we got were over-roasted, I theorize that the roaster used the "once it stops popping it must be done" method- way past second crack. I have also worked in cafes that are certainly more modern, where everything is a science. I felt so much more accomplished and proud of my shots at the more modern place, knowing how to bring out sugars and acidity in my spro, being able to adjust to each orgin and blend and finding the best representation of the beans I am using. One major difference though, is that we used exclusively open-bottom filters in the more modern cafe, while the first used the split design you feature in your video. Seeing espresso extracted from one of these open bottom filters is incredible, and beautiful. Far more so, I think, than the split design.

[@Killadey]

@S p I think they mean the sugars which naturally occur in coffee fruit/seeds.

[@Humungojerry]

good point about the open bottom filters, i love seeing that. there’s probably someone somewhere who thinks that affects the taste! ultimately it’s all quite subjective

[@laZOETje]

Tastes change too. People learn more, discover new ways. This is new to me. I bought an Expobar Leva in 2005 and did all the things with passion. 15 years later, I got lazy with roasting and espressos. I loved my flat whites. But now i feel tired of so much milky drinks and would love to drink espressos. I need to do some tasting. Just doing very lazy pourovers every morning. One thing that always irked me bout my split fliter is one side ALWAYS flows freely and the other takes 5 seconds to flow. Probably late in the game but i recently bought a Hario Syphon and for the first time my daughter and I were like “fruity,… berries!” It makes a very bright, fresh cup.

[@HiddenExp]

Lovely!

[@razpootis5802]

Welcome back to "Why is this in my recommended?" I don't even know why I watched this, but for some reason this video made me happy. I don't know why this is, but I don't care. I'm warm with happiness now.

[@JanStrojil]

Same here. Random choice by youtube to recommend this but I am happy it did. :)

[@nid4u]

It's probably the coffee

[@stephenwells9671]

It is his voice.

[@thebirofunk]

I miss pouring espresso into shot glasses and watching the crema settle like a pint of Guinness.

[@alksjda]

nobody is stopping you from doing it :/

[@duplessis2006]

get a nespresso...original one...love mine

[@M-O-Z]

I do that everyday haha did some modifications 2 my machine and with my grinder right ive got it 2 make amazing espresso...took some time tho

[@aoiahiru670]

Does that not happen for you anymore? That happens every time I pull a shot.

[@coolworx]

Same here... I used to own a small coffee shop where I roasted my own blend. Ohh how I miss my Monsooned Malabar!

[@simonsecher2648]

I honestly think high viscosity tastes better. I've been fortunate to come across it on occasions, but it's rare (nowadays I guess)! In some italian restaurants I've found the espresso to be almost sirupy. I love that.

[@piage84]

Never order espresso from Italian restaurants. Usually it's the most vile espresso you'll ever had. I know, it's convenient and fun to keep sitting and getting a coffee at the end of the meal (and i do that too) but it's always a great disappointment

[@johanamilano]

@@piage84 what restaurants are you going to?😂 Bc wherever I eat, the coffee (yes coffee bc here we only drink espresso) is at least ok. Of course you have to like dark roasts with a high percentage of robusta beans…

[@7tevoffun568]

This is a good video - however, just a quick, pedantic correction: water is electrically charged (not magnetically-at this level they are different interactions) via it's covalent bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms which results from a disparate sharing of the electrons in the outer energy levels.

[@noneavailable760]

Oh, I actually understood the phrase "magnetism to itself" not as a technical word, but as a metaphoric depiction of something atracted to something, which is a lot more visual using the word "magnetism" (like "magnetism between people", for example)

[@eliadbu]

@@noneavailable760 if you want to explain a scientific aspect of any subject you want to be accurate and precise and not mix up wrong information.

[@Kimberly-bk8vx]

@@eliadbu haha, well, if you want to get really pedantic, electricity and magnetism are just different manifestations of the same phenomena. And in physics, we refer to electromagnetic forces as responsible for chemical bonds.

[@lostathenian1836]

Welp.... you know, I'm of the opinion that electromagnetics and the corresponding atomic inhibitors actually do contribute to the nostalgiac attraction of virtual particles bonding over shared experiences and thermal incubators. Eh? Edit: of course, this does depend upon the oxygen's taste in hydrogen particles. Sometimes they go for other types, ya know? Not to be cantankerous.

[@Lolwutdesu9000]

@@Kimberly-bk8vx and if you want to get really REALLY pedantic, then magnetism is actually just the electric fields effect on its surroundings when taking into account special relativity.

[@yupp9393]

"the color of coffee itself come from what are called melanoidins" I had no idea that coffee got it's color from Jedi powers.

[@marcosreal11]

Really good coffee will give you Jedi powers.

[@IshtarNike]

It is known.

[@costa_konstantinou_dp]

Lot of force you need to extract coffee!

[@AGoldSoldier]

ungratefulmetalpansy How come your question doesn’t end with a question mark? For that matter, where did the capitalization go? As far as grammar rules go, “It’s vs Its” shouldn’t bother you too much since most words in the possessive use the apostrophe + s; it’s a very easy mistake to make and for some “its” can be confusing because it looks plural. Also, I’m anticipating you going after me for using a run-on sentence, but I’d like to remind you that there is nothing grammatically wrong with run-ons. If I misused the semicolon, however, feel free to call me out.

[@AGoldSoldier]

@ungratefulmetalpansy Eh, you're right. I wasn't disagreeing with that, just that it's a bit hypocritical to correct grammar mistake while also making mistakes as well. My apologies if I sound insensitive, I know more people that dislike pity than I do that like it.

[@RegstarRogstar]

Psh! I know, right! Espresso these days sheesh. * goes back to sipping the instant 3in1 sachet i dissolve in room temperature water *

[@ethanwilliams1176]

I'm impressed that coffee is the #2 traded commodity and the top addictive substance on earth and we're still figuring out how to optimize it's brewing. A friend of mine can talk the science of coffee for hours. It's fun. Great video!

[@charleslopezbischel]

I worked for David Schomer as a barista and roaster for a couple of years, and he's still pulling the same style of shots, but without the robusta now haha. Instead of changing with the times to the new modern style of espresso (which he refers to as lemon juice), he has slowly refined his own recipe. I'm glad he hasn't changed, as Vivace is now the outlier and I appreciate the variety. While pulling those shots is finicky and takes a lot of practice to get them consistent, when done right they are rich, sweet, and complex.

[@ZacharyPinder]

Very curious to hear more about this coffee and shot style. Do you have any resources you can share?

[@MostTornBrain]

@@ZacharyPinder David Schomer published a book about his style, called Espresso Perfection. It's available from the Espresso Vivace store web site. I thought it was an interesting read. If you are ever in Seattle, you can taste it first-hand at his café and make your own judgement about how good it is.

[@totoroben]

When I first saw one of your videos I thought you'd be very pretentious, but now I just think you're very good at explaining things. Really glad you made this channel to help people make better coffee.

[@BigTrees4ever]

He’s definitely got a small pinch or a dash of pretension, but it’s the perfect amount.

[@DylanBFishkeeper]

Thank you for the very informative video, James! I've never been big on coffee or espresso, but your passion and knowledge is infectious. Great job with the editing and highly educational script: as someone with little background knowledge, your opinions were compelling and the information presented for each point was easily digestible.

[@mjams231]

I really appreciate that this video was conceived from a nostalgic memory. These moments throughout my day tend to be my favorite. There are interesting discussions and I applaud James for bringing them forward.

[@doug5853]

Three years too late to the party but it would be great if you could do a 'How to' on these old school espressos. Useful for posterity!

[@zaggernut5054]

I learnt what an espresso (modern or old-school or whatever) is from this video Never knew someone could feel this strongly about how a beverage looks like as it is poured

[@paint4pain]

@@TheGroundedCoffee To each his own, don't knock it 'till you try it.

[@darrianweathington1923]

You want strong opinions about pours, go look at people gove their opinions about how you pour the perfect glass of beer... its literally crazy talk

[@hazelchief-rabbit5903]

@@darrianweathington1923 oh wow, there are different ways of pouring beer? I don't drink alcohol but that sort of discussion seems kinda interesting.

[@colehartel7206]

Coffee is a drug, and drug addicts often feel very strongly about their substance of choice.

[@itsameandrea]

100% agree with you, James. Also re-educating is something that is worth talking about. Bare with me now. I'm Italian (from the deep south) and as you may know, I grew up drinking that beautiful thick, rich, possibly-not-so-flavorful espresso. Then, once I started digging deeper into the world of coffee and started experimenting with what you're calling "modern espresso" I was blown away by the flavors in the cup. I now live abroad and every time I go back to my hometown I bring some lovely coffee to my parents/friends. Last time, for instance, I brought a really tasty Ethiopia. Of course, when I pulled the shots, they didn't look as pretty as they do with Italian roasted beans, and the people there were put off just for that alone. For so many years the standard of espresso has been all about the way it looked more than the way it tasted and it's going to take some time before the average person will accept it.

[@utubit22]

correct me if Im wrong in assuming this but was the Ethiopian coffee you brought back Arabica? and did you brew using a Moka or an actual espresso machine?

[@itsameandrea]

@@utubit22 100% arabica indeed and I've used the same espresso machine I have here at home. Point being, the espresso doesn't look as good while pouring as well as in the cup, mostly because of the crema (or lack there of).

[@usafan96soren20]

Yes I'm Italian too, I've the same problems you have. When I invite people to have a coffee at my place the answer is almost the same hahahahah PS le persone non sono molto propense al cambiamento, concordo sul fatto dell'aspetto...ma è difficile cambiare l'abitudine. Immagina già che cambiamento sarebbe non usare lo zucchero...

[@edwickson]

Hi, I want to know, or exactly, really want to validate my information about italian espresso. Is people there enjoy their espresso with 20gr ground : 30gr liquid or less? And when you show them your Ethiopian coffee, are you pull the same recipes their used to enjoy?

[@usafan96soren20]

@@edwickson usually in Italy it's 7g of coffee to 25g of liquid. The recipe is the same, but single origin coffee, I use to roast it light. Light roasted beans in my opinion aren't what people use to see in an espresso.

[@tutelarius]

I love the way this guy talks - well-enunciated, eloquent, great accent.

[@danneuhaus]

Thanks James! I've been extracting professionally now for about 4 years, and I am often insecure about the look of my pours and the crema in the cup. But it most often tastes damn fine! Nice to know why! Cheers!

[@moshezuchter]

Great video. Lots of nostalgia with the tiger stripes old maple-syrupy pours. Thanks!

[@DanniEfraim]

Oh, this was such a good video! Great opinions, lots of information, perfect length. I have been thinking about this topic too, actually. Too much, probably. I use mainly a medium roast 100% arabica and I can mourn the look of them, with a pale golden thin crema. But in the end, the flavour is more important and wins out.

[@ExtremeMetal]

I don't drink coffee and don't want to, I just enjoy watching someone talk about something they know a lot about.

[@sO_RoNerY]

Uh why don't you drink coffee and want to?

[@jeffersonderrickson5371]

This was a fantastic look into something I really hadn't thought about...when I had my first espresso at 15 and what I had the last time at the exact same coffee shop were night and day from one another 15 years apart. Thanks for making me look in the cup a little differently.

[@guitarjediwarrior]

To me that was really interesting and also satisfying to listen to. :) The way to discover such neat little detail in how things work, is just precious by itself. Thank you!

[@whynotanyting]

I'll be in my corner with my teas. ᴴᵉˡˡᵒ

[@sean3533]

How'd you make the small words?

[@hazelchief-rabbit5903]

@Nincadalop mind if I join you?

[@JohnDennery]

I really appreciate the depth of knowledge and clarity of presentation in this video. I'm personally torn between the two styles because my best-looking shots are never as delicious and yet when I make a really tasty shot without that super thick look, I feel like I've just missed the mark slightly. I roast all of my own coffee and it's amazing how much the look and flavor can change from batch to batch with only slight variances in roasting time. Part of the fun is chasing the perfect shot which tastes and looks great, even if only for the sake of experimentation itself. Thanks for the great video. Cheers!

[@aerialphoto]

i like how you zoom in on important parts. thats when i scream at the family to shut up.

[@DJMcIver]

Loved this video! I started making coffee in 2006 when everything was visual. I don't think I ever stopped to ask why coffee doesn't look as good, or why I was so obsessed with making "good looking" espresso until now. I have a lot to think about, hahah

[@kennethrkuhn]

Excellent video, I appreciate your incredible specificity going so far as to the molecular structure of coffee and water. I look forward to more wonderful explanations of the coffee world.

[@JazzedJohnson]

As a somewhat older, non-professional coffee lover, your presentation of your ideas almost always entertains me and IMPROVES my own shots. This video made me nostalgic for the barista finger sweeping a full basket. Keep speculating, drawing us ever deeper into coffee land.

[@beatbasher]

I thought I loved coffee but this chap is on another level!

[@jarlaxel]

You put into words what I've been feeling/searching for. I love the dark, rich, velvety look of espresso, but no matter what shop I visit, I don't see it. You and probably most other people (and maybe even me too) would argue that the lighter, thinner espresso tastes better. But I like the look of what you're calling an over-dosed, under-extracted shot so much that if I found an espresso shop that served it that way, I'd be a regular. The look of the shot is so important to me that I'm happy to settle for a slightly lower quality shot for something that looks beautiful. But since nobody I know of is pulling shots that way, I must be the minority.

[@noemivela9524]

I know nothing about making espresso first hand, I just enjoy drinking it immensely. And my homemade Italian espresso (with a moka pot) is a far cry from an espresso but listening to rants like this about coffee in general have greatly improved the taste of my finished product at home. Keep it coming! 🙌🏼

[@JohannesNielsen]

Very interesting what you have to share and I love your descriptions of the visuals of the differences, keep it up

[@3duckit]

I love the love you have for this art/science. It’s truly a wonderful passion.

[@nateisnotemo]

I’m not a barista but I love coffee and I love this type of video. I just learned a shitload.

[@gordonkirkland6092]

I dont even drink coffee, but this showed up in my recommendations and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

[@MrShrekky]

Great explanation of the physical phenomenons, with water being a polar molecule and wanting to latch on to things… except - it’s not magnetism. what you’re describing fall under electrostatic interactions.

[@dcuccia]

Had the same reaction. Think it was more of a metaphor of attraction, but yes, definitely electric not magnetic. H2O is quite special in that it has a very strong attraction to itself via hydrogen bonds, which are not lattice or covalent bonds, but closer to that than most electrostatic forces.

[@anothertav]

Hey, I would just like to thank you for caring about your aesthetic as well your audio + video quality and lighting. it makes your videos a pleasure to watch and learn from.

[@billinrio]

Thanks, James. Highly informative and inimitably expressed, as always. And here I was, still trying to prepare espressos in ways that until now, I didn't know were "outdated".

[@steampour]

I thought so too; he makes it easy to understand. If you like similar analysis-based perspectives on brewed beverages like tea and coffee, you may like my channel, SteamPour. I like to mix in the occasional scientific explanation along with some slow, meditative thoughts to ponder over. Why don't you go give SteamPour a look?

[@crysis1091987]

Really good way of explaining everything. I recently started learning about the basics of coffee. Got a course on SCA done. I have a question. All the research I have done on the internet has showed the perfect ratio of coffee for espresso is 13 grams for a single shot. My trainer taught me that its 20 grams and 40 grams extraction. There is not single or double espresso anymore. How right is it?

[@globanxiety]

Thank you so much for your videos. Please keep up this amazing work, James. Immense respect.

[@jonathanfischer5292]

Thanks for geeking out on this topic, James. Love this stuff! I got nostalgic about old-school myself recently, and have been making morning joe for wifey and me the same way we had in Italy years ago (Rocket Giotto owner): Darker roast, more crema, more chocolate and bourbon notes as oppossed to the nuts and fruit so prevalent in today's espresso . . . Iove both styles but it's nice to revisit sometimes

[@keixsy]

Every time a picture pops up, i feel like im in school and the professor is showing something on a powerpoint. p.s. i really hope i can try make more old fashioned coffee just to try it ^w^

[@reyzartsist]

OMG, I see a Timemore Chestnut grinder in the background!

[@Mrrtchbrrx]

A new sub for you! That was very informative, concise and entertaining. I'll be doing some recalibrating at the shop tomorrow morning :)

[@maximus1234ification]

I just bought your book on amazon, I can't wait for it to arrive! Are there other books you would recommend on espresso brewing/coffee.

[@JUSJAK]

Learnt a fair few things in this, thanks James top stuff mate

[@AaronPennable]

How do you feel about Rocket Espresso machines? I'd love to see you review the R58, R60V or the R Nine one

[@ninaforsythx3]

I love that you asked, "Have I totally lost my mind?" hahaha I love the way you talk about coffee

[@georgeioannou7911]

As a person who entered the coffee world in the 2000s and have originally learned from alt.coffee, coffeegeek and coffeekid, what you are saying makes perfect sense. In fact it took me a while to adapt to todays SO specialty espresso on all aspects (roasting lighter, reducing my dose and increasing the volume). Now there is no turning back!

[@pedroc4387]

Hey James, I don't know if you will see this, but, I wanted to share my experience in regards to old school vs. modern espresso. The Los Angeles market has seen a huge boom in terms of expansion and accessibility to quality coffee, there is a coffee shop nearly everywhere. The vast majority tend to push very fruit forward and citrus espresso, which I also enjoy, but, the roaster I work for sticks to the old school espresso. Our barista training involved learning to manual dose by filling the basket and then softly removing the extra grounds with your fingers, exactly as in the cutaway videos you used here. We are then taught to look for tiger stripes when the shot is pulling, and, stop the shot right before it blondes, a very strict 1:1 ratio, 20g in and 20g out. The thing is though, the coffee blends so well with the milk, it stands out nicely and cuts through alternative milks too. I have learned to appreciate this espresso and now enjoy it, just as much, if not more than modern espresso.

[@brian1264]

Great video! The improvements in measurement, roasting, and extraction may produce a sweeter and more balanced shot. But that shift in focus has lost sight of not only the beauty of espresso, but also the tactile sensation of sipping a fluffy, velvet ristretto. The coffee industry has lost sight of that experience since the 2007-2009 golden age of espresso. Modern commercial espresso shots are fashionable and tasty, but leave me unsatisfied.

[@alexm4541]

This is amazing on so many levels. James keep this discussion for us who can appreciate you on KZbin, pull this out at a dinner party and you might just get distant nods and excuses why they need to help the host wash the dishes

[@timf4015]

I totally dig physics (even though I'm an artist), so I really appreciate your chemistry-based molecular approach to describing why things happen during the process. Thank you!

[@allenbercero3661]

Mmmm I like espresso the way it is currently, I'm a flavor guy

[@B33Ra8it]

Allen #teamFlavor Teaching to ONLY look for certain things in pulls is painful to hear about. Tasting/smelling needs to be forefront in training and honing!

[@Darcy81soccer]

I think I like your rants most of all. Also, those glasses are extremely stylish

[@md.nafeesurrahman6704]

Thank you for taking your time and sharing the knowledge. I am very new to brewing my own coffee and I am loving it. Although i have so much more to understand.... Thanks again!

[@atavax311]

this is my favorite coffee rant ever and why I started following your channel

[@lavigipsy]

I've been working on a specialty coffee farm and training some basic baristas skills and even though I know the appareace doest relate to taste, taking a gorgeous espresso, full of beautiful tiger stripes just feels good

[@bendman336]

Great video. If you want a good hybrid of the old school and new school, get a shot of Hairbender.

[@connorjackson-sevy1807]

My friend who I only talk to on occasion reached out today to ask me about a home brew set up. Told me he got turned on to good coffee from Hoffmann videos and I was so hyped! a tough part of specialty coffee is just getting people to try it and these videos are doing that work for the industry. Thank you James!

[@schonistdermai3600]

A true enthusiast! His fascination with good coffee is contagious. Wonderful!

[@ashwilkinson889]

"There's better there's worse, this is not the time" ahaha Your manner, fantastic as always

[@cjaysparks6756]

Now we need you, Binging With Babish and Cocktail Chemistry to collab for the ultimate cross-over episode

[@mouth4war880]

And brad from bon appetite

[@kawonnowak]

Subscribed. Loved your World Atlas - one of my favourite birthday gifts ever. This video goes straight to the heart of a struggle I'm currently having with a Brazilian single origin bean recommended by a young up and coming roastery. The beans arrived with a strongly recommended 1:2 ratio from a 17g dose. I'd been using 1:1.5 off a 20g dose with my old beans and there is absolutely nothing positive I can find to say about the bowl of thin Windsor Soup that I find myself looking at every morning, even if I have to admit that the complexities of the flavour have something to offer. Give me unctuous any day. And the visuals are important! Thanks.

[@idontknownothing547]

Just try 21g dial in 38g yield out for 24-25secs. 91°c water

[@LizzyBennet85]

I'm so excited to see answers to some of my questions on espresso! I've only gotten into making it for the past year, so I can't speak to 22 oz., but I agree that what you're showing looks much more beautiful than the 16 oz. shots I've been making. I actually think that watching the crema turn to coffee and change consistency is a lot more fun to watch in the 16 oz., but as I said before, I'm new to this and didn't know that 22 oz. used to be a thing.

[@doc8125]

You mean grams right?

[@pelegmoyal]

I am selling coffee for a big company in LA for years now - they are trying to push the “new wave” style while I offer my customers the old school option we have and I can see how every time the majority gravitate towards the old school style dark(Italian)roast or medium to dark, the brighter notes are harder for the old generation to adjust too and personally I feel that with the espresso machine extraction a darker roast yields more delicious notes that are understandable for most palettes.

[@sindicta5757]

I thought I hated black coffee because it always tastes acidic and sour, turns out I just hate light roasts.

[@ClearEmOut]

So interesting, thank you sir.

[@blackeagle9774]

Nice video! Love those eye glassware. Where did you buy them?

[@Truth.Keeper]

Very good points. I've ran across most of these scenarios. I found that roasting your own single origin beans and getting a really good filtered water is the key. Side note- you eat with your eyes, well most of us do...

[@marcbonneville7548]

I definitely love your glasses, so much better than 12 years ago! 🔍🔎

[@gxamor]

This explains why I experience espresso very differently from when I first started drinking it. I miss the dense, syrupy consistency from pre “modern” days. Most espresso these days is thinner or more liquidy. I won’t argue with your assertion that it tastes better. I wonder if the reduced visual attractiveness of espresso shots has in some small part helped feed the craze for latte art.

[@healthesick39804]

I love the analysis, it appears I've learned a lot, especially for such a short time as 10 minutes may be, and I see little to no reason to apologize for such observations. Thanks again for the great content!

[@nathonwhite]

Love this approach to the idea of a good cup of coffee. I think we now get confused in what is a great cup and loose sight of what we want to drink.

[@atugruls]

I love James always acts like he is walking in a mine field every time he puts a contraversial tag to a video. I think he knows much about the coffee community as he knows about the coffee itself and trying to focus people to talk about the main topic and not some side argument he slipped randomly. Coffee community or coffee snobs are some of the most nit-picking, whiney people i have ever met and James my friend you are just a breath of fresh air among them. Keep up the work for not indulging them to some meaningless arguments that most of them would LOVE to engage

[@SIRCHEEKSA]

I do agree James. However I must admit to getting a tad annoyed when people say “that crema doesn’t look very good” ...

[@chrisrosenquest]

Great video for those of us who are in the industry and are always looking to make better espresso (and espresso drinks). I'm always looking for different espresso blends or how to better blend my espresso for that beautiful and tasty shot. However, I don't use a spouted portafilter. For several reasons, I use a bottomless portafilter and tiger striping is what I generally am looking for in terms of a "nice looking" shot coming out of the filter. What's your take on bottomless portafilters? I've heard some baristas call it a fad while others swear by them. Do you think the produce the same quality shot? Thanks for all of the great coffee videos.

[@trevormelville3633]

This sort of detail is wonderful because it helps us understand the complexities. Helps me on my journey with my new la pavoni lever to try and achieve that beautiful cup of coffee. I am determined to get there somehow! This sort of analysis gives me the approach and inspiration! And you put is across in such an engaging way!!!!

[@Juangomez9186]

“Looks very pretty.” Shows a picture that looks like my reheated coffee that I microwaved for the 3rd time.

[@Locomaid]

Thank you for this. I have a coffee-trauma from my youth. At my first position after uni (very early 90s), I was tasked with making and serving coffee for the board of the huge international company I worked for (yes, young women made coffee and young men had real jobs...). My then boss decided to to put me on the spot in front of his all male chronies. He said looking at the cups of coffee I was carrying (no trolley), some of which had bubbles on top (no crema...) : Which of these is the best cup of coffee? Give it to the CEO. I gave the cup closest to me to the CEO. My then boss said aloud to the management team: She doesn’t know coffee. She gave me the one with the most foam. They all laughed at me, stupid little girl (early 20s). So I stepped toward the CEO and said loudly that I gave him the hottest cup of coffee. That what they had in their cups is automatic drip-filter coffee and the foam on top of any of the cups was likely leftover dishwashing liquid from poorly washed cups. Then-boss looked down at his foamy cup of brew and went red, then purple. One week later, I had a new job. With the CEO (hottest cup) as an executive assistant. My new assistant also got a dishwasher and espresso machine. I could have gone in a completely different direction... Side note: I worked in that company for more than a decade, until the year we were downsizing his division. He was called into my office and I was about to tell him how it was going to be done. I offered him coffee and my male assistant brought him a beautiful cup of hot espresso with a light, creamy head of foam. I caught the look in his eye but I didn’t react. Gave him the difficult news he came for and got on with it. When he left my office an hour later, I closed the doors and did a three minute victory dance. Sometimes bitter is also sweet. Thanks for all your great videos!

[@dfeuer]

I need to know the rest of the story! How did you go from underling to boss in a week?

[@iztimetwo9887]

I kept losing track and needing to rewind. How great is KZbin and James Hoffman!! Thank you for the great video. This is how passionate I am about coffee. I just lack the knowledge and experience yet.

[@nicoh848]

I rarely subscribe to new channels, nor do I drink coffee (in part because of doctors orders and in part due to preference) but I love making it, both for friends and family, and when I worked in a local cafe back home in Norway, either way I’m about to be the best coffee maker that don’t drink coffee.😂 Subscribed! Loving the in-depth perspective and great video quality!