Jamil and Kalim Relationship Summary (Twisted Wonderland)

[@antosaurusrex3752]

It still rubs me the wrong way how EN sensors their relationship

[@laitofangirl5805]

I feel the same way. It’s so stupid that EN didn’t want its audience to know that Jamil and his family are basically slaves. Even though the movie Aladdin mentions slavery( the genie is a slave and Jafar calls him a slave; in the animated Aladdin movie, there’s a lyric in the song “Prince Ali” that says that Prince Ali has slaves). This is probably why Diabolik Lovers doesn’t have official English translation. Cause Rejet knows Europeans and Americans would do a lot of censorship cause the games brings up a lot of serious topics.

[@MaryKeehl]

I think Book 4 really perfectly shows how things are never black or white. Jamil is a victim but he can also be a ruthless schemer, while Kalim is a victim of his circumstances but can also be a huge egoist without even realising it. They're both trapped in the roles that life gave them, and will need to find a true middle ground that works for them. In my opinion, this perfectly mirrors Aladdin and Jasmine's story too, because they came from widely different backgrounds, but both of them felt trapped in their life circumstances, much like what is happening here. Jamil cannot truly step away from his 'prison' as Kalim's servant; while Kalim can never step away from his role as heir. He has been hurt and isolated all his life for being the Asim oldest son (having been kidnapped/poisoned numerous times), so he is even now desperately hanging onto his dynamic with Jamil, despite knowing it cannot go on like that, because he just can't accept that even this friendship too, was not an actual friendship. Jamil cannot have anything in life because of his role as servant, while Kalim is coming to realise that everything he has is fake, because he never had to taste defeat, and everything was handed to him, even this 'fake' friendship of theirs.

[@Silly-rvniii]

As much as I love kalim I just can’t when it comes to how his obliviousness to things shows. Like I get it that he wasn’t taught to really be independent on his own. And from someone who has family that went through sort of what Jamil is, my resentment gets over me a bit.

[@laitofangirl5805]

I know Kalim didn’t know what that the Viper family are slaves and not employees to his family cause he’s dumb. But being ignorant doesn’t justify what he has been doing for years. Poor Jamil has been enslaved since he was a kid and that’s so wrong😭 I would have done the same thing that Jamil did in Book 4. Also if I was Jamil position I wouldn’t want to be Kalim’s friend either. Why would someone want to be friends with someone who (accidentally) tormented him for years? Of course he hates him.

[@Lightgirlification]

First comment on any of your videos, and I so, SO appreciate them!

[@pajama_ningen]

I agree with you 🙌🏼 Jamil's overblot was interesting because both Kalim and Jamil were at fault to some degree, but neither were actually to blame. Jamil wouldn't have felt the need to do what he did and Kalim wouldn't have been so oblivious if Kalim's father hadn't caused the circumstances to be that way. At the end of the day, Kalim is a good person and Jamil is justified in how he feels. Hopefully Kalim can slowly learn to be more independent, and he can change things once he inherits the family fortunes. Hopefully by then Jamil also stops resenting Kalim and sees and appreciates his efforts to change things ❤️

[@thatcursedpoet0825]

You are so right 😭💕

[@devaninman8354]

I agree they deserve more than this, and I'm pretty sure is Kalim's father's fault for all this

[@thatcursedpoet0825]

It makes me happy to see that Kalim understands Jamil's struggles after the events of Book 4. He's oblivious, but hes not a bad guy. And he's trying to be better. I say this as someone that can somewhat relate to Jamil- sure, Kalim can be a little oblivious and airheaded, but the fact that he's a good person and tries his best to become better matters so much. Ofc, it's a slow process- someone who's been sheltered his whole life cannot change overnight. It will take a good amount of time to change, and I hope their relationship improves gradually too. 🙏 Basically, what I'm trying to say is: both of them are at fault, but imo the biggest problem here is Kalim's parents. When Kalim saw and understood Jamil's struggles, he decided to change for his sake (albeit said change being slow and difficult). I doubt his father has that sort of kindness in him. Anyway this is just me rambling because I love both Kalim and Jamil so much >< 💕 Thank you so much for this video!! 🙏

[@sahasrak6834]

I feel like in the EN server a lot of people don't like Jamil just because of his betrayal to Kalim, but I feel like this video helps show why Jamil's frustrations are actually quite valid. Kalim isn't as perfect as some people seem to think either and the sad part is that it's neither of their faults really..

[@pedestrian655]

ALMOST THIRTY MINUTES OF JAMIL KALIM ANYSIS HOLY SHITTT YUUREI YOU ARE CRAZY

[@RekEStore32]

In a good way!😉

[@its_Katari]

i love it, i think jamil is suck a deep character, he is a survavior of abuse and slavery trying to regain his agency

[@xxfinwazzxx5270]

That’s kinda sad for Jamil

[@user-zx3bs7rm7v]

This video along with analysis' vids of their relationship is exactly why i dont understand people who romantically ship them. Jamil is Kalims literal servant, and Kalim is in a much higher position of power as compared to him. Not only is their power dynamic insanely bad, but their relationship itself is in shambles, even if theyre slowly healing. Jamil is stuck with Kalim as his 'master' until who knows when (perhaps hell be free after he graduates), but theyre just so unhealthy. As grim said, talk about dysfunctional

[@gravityhashira8877]

The way I see it, I feel like the system is messed up. You see, the system is making Kalim think that Jamil is doing the things Kalim wants because in his head, Kalim wholeheartedly believes Jamil has the choice in doing so; He thinks that Jamil is doing the thing because Jamil wants to. What Kalim doesn't realize is that Jamil doesn't really have a choice. The system has destroyed them both, in the sense, it has covered Kalim from the truth, and forced Jamil to follow a destiny that has already been decided for him. It also made Kalim completely oblivious to reality, which may be why he tends to be impulsive and doesn't think about his actions. This idea of the Sultan having to be the best at everything is very traumatizing for Jamil, and I feel like the same is said in a lot of caste systems. I think Kalim and Jamil are both victims of a messed up system that prevented them from making their own choices and being true friends.

[@pajama_ningen]

Lovely watch as always ❤️ I can't begin to imagine how long this would have taken to make. Thank you for everything you do for the fandom, and please make sure to rest up 🙌🏼💕

[@YuuRei20]

Thank you so much!! ^^ I really appreciate you!

[@kalindhiseneviratne8247]

If you take requests; could you please do a video on on Riddle and Malleus? There are several voicelines and one or two vignettes that imply that they might be closer than they seem. But I can't say for sure that there will be a lot of content to go over...

[@YuuRei20]

Certainly! ^^ No problem, I will add to my TODO!

[@kalindhiseneviratne8247]

@@YuuRei20 Thank you!

[@lightofthenightsky6609]

Whoa! Nearly a half hour long video! I guess there is a lot of content to parse through and discussion to be had when it comes to their relationship! Amazing job compiling it into one video! When looking at the comments, yeah, at first I was saying that even if Kalim is not really a fan favorite of mine, I do not dislike him/I am neutral to him/kind of like him, but, over time, there things that really started to bug me about Kalim. I started to realize that I do not like him as much as I thought I did. Man, the English version really does detract from the nature of their relationship/circumstances surrounding it… Kind of random, but seeing some of the footage from Jamil’s dorm uniform personal story/vignette reminded me of how he turned to Vil for help with making the decorations for the banquet Kalim was throwing for Crowley. A video about Vil and Jamil’s relationship would honestly be pretty cool; if you are interested and have the time of course! Thank you so much for your videos!

[@YuuRei20]

Thank you so much for watching!! ^^ I would love to put together a video for Jamil and Vil--thank you very much for the idea!

[@CatherineDorneles]

Also, OP's videos are an invaluable, painstakingly researched source of canon information, but 5:06 can lead to a misunderstanding of Kalim's character. He isn't ordering Jamil because he secretly still thinks they're not equals. He's ordering him because he's a spoiled kid, used to doing what he wants & to others agreeing to it. Playful Land exemplifies it well: Kalim got Leona, a PRINCE, to essentially taste test for poison for him, & he was also the only one to want to hear Fellow, who as a human trafficker is scum of the scum, out first, instead of attacking him, AND he wanted Ace and Ortho to do all the hard work of preparing a feast where he'd hear Fellow out. Kalim doesn't think that he's better than others. He's just really, REALLY used to ordering others regardless of who they are, and breaking out of this habit is very difficult for him, in a realistic way. As opposed to what the fandom wants from Kalim, which is essentially to take Correct Human Behaviour out of his ass, and to magically and with no outside help become a model citizen because he had an epiphany after Jamil yelled at him. 🤦 EDIT: 22:56 is also a misunderstanding, because Kalim never stopped being supportive. Yuu&Grim (and the players by extension), only know of Kalim's true frustration because they followed him outside of the dorm, and after this scene is over Kalim's frustration is never once brought up again - because Kalim knows that in order to truly support Jamil, he for once can't show his true feelings & must instead accept that he isn't number 1. Jamil witnessing Kalim's confession is also important, because it means that Jamil KNOWS that Kalim is actually disgruntled at not being chosen for main vocals... and didn't say anything to the others, thus effectively proving that he's willing to support Jamil, even when it hurts. Thought crimes, after all, don't exist.

[@YuuRei20]

Thank you very much for your kind corrections!! I agree that Kalim is a very complex character--I hope I have not done him a disservice through this video, and I really appreciate your insight! ^^ I sincerely look forward to seeing more of Kalim in the game and learning more about him, and I would love to redo an evaluation of Kalim's relationships with those around him as soon as there is more information to be had! ♡ So exciting! Thank you again!

[@CatherineDorneles]

@YuuRei20 You're welcome, and thank you for creating your videos! Regarding Kalim, I think that an interesting video to be made in the future could be in the context of the Playful Land event, in which the duality of his kind, good heart vs his thoughtless and arguably entitled actions was laid bare. Also, his relationship with Fellow, because by reasoning that Fellow must have had his motives for doing what he did and wanting to hear him out, symbolically Kalim was like... the only student that didn't otherize Fellow as an irredeemable monster who had to be beaten up, and instead believed in his humanity (Kalim was vindicated in the end too). And that's very interesting, considering that the master-servant system set in place by his Asim ancestors in relation to the Vipers means that Kalim is constantly, unknowingly dehumanizing and exploiting Jamil. The good heart of Kalim the individual vs the inherent abuse of Kalim the master-within-the-system.

[@yukishiro3287]

When Kalim asks if Yuu could lend a ear to Kalim's sentiments, he immediately shuts himself, saying he's had a great life can be because everyone around him has talked about how privileged he is, resulting in him not wanting to speak about his personal issues and likely trying to change for the better of others

[@RekEStore32]

This is one relationship that would definitely improve from A WIDE BERTH OF SPACE!

[@aphonetically]

This is a petty imbalanced reading of their relationship. It's not wrong, per se, but you're a lot more willing to provide context and reasoning for Jamil's actions in a light that favors him rather than Kalim. Also, I think you should reference the anthologies and what we've seen in the novels so far? Like, for instance, in the anthology, Jamil admits he can't understand how Kalim thinks and maybe he was foolish to assume he did. Jamil also, willingly, teaches Deuce how to dance for starsending with Kalim and Ortho's help. And at one point, grabs Kalim without thinking to show how to do ballroom dancing-- and when the finish, he collapses and curses his dancing soul. Like, there is genuine affection there and familiarity between Kalim and Jamil that isn't strictly one-sided. The other thing is, if people are coming away from this video thinking Kalim is 1) Egotistical, 2) Lazy, and 3) A secret villain, I think that means you did the analysis on Kalim wrong. The novels that have been translated so far make very clear that Kalim's welcoming and friendly personality is not an act. He sincerely wants people to feel welcome and trusts everyone, though it's harmful to both him and Jamil. Plus, bringing up how Kalim wronged Jamil somehow in Fairy Gala, but not bringing up how Kalim's insistence on helping the fairy in the same event, against Jamil's wishes basically saves their entire plan? On top of that, the game goes out of its way to make sure we would not know how Jamil would react to Kalim betraying him in Book 6. It's a key point that Leona realizes before "Ruggie" and "Kalim" can betray them, foiling that experiment. And it stands out, given the way the first group was shown how they reacted to being betrayed. (Also, I guess this means we don't know how Leona would react to Ruggie betraying him, which is also a key point that lines up with Leona's background.) I don't know, I like how this frames some of the stuff that is harder for western audiences to grasp, but if I wasn't familiar with the canon, I would legitimately come out of this video thinking that Jamil sincerely hates Kalim and Kalim has zero redeeming features that balance Jamil at all.

[@arahnaet3277]

I love how you worded the problem! But i also think that this analysis looked rather from the point of "What's even Jamil's problem?", which isn't invalid, if noticing how some players tend to react. Kalim, surly, not a bad person at all, but he IS legitimately ignorant (we know why, and yet); while talking about people, not being familiar with the game, there are a lot of EN community, who can't grasp the problem due to censorship. This is slavery, and what Jamil has is actually a generational trauma. I absolutely get it, there are also people that will get a wrong idea from it. That thing also makes the whole conflict more difficult: like Jamil, a lot of those, who come from those types of families (i would know), likly to project, - to see Kalim as the constat reminder and, even if unwilling, a part of the system; and conversaly, Kalim is as well still a child, so many will be angry at Jamil for placing all the blame on Kalim (while, yes, having some warm feelings for him, but all drowned and unrecognized in negativity and pressure). They actually both right and wrong, those're huge consequences of their upbringing. The point here is also that many do not understand why Jamil is so angry that he hurt Kalim over a minor inconvenience (I quote) and all the blame lies with him. I'm actually very grateful for this view on their relationship, it is a part of them in canon, some parts are very disturbing. I think, if we tried to cover ALL of them, it would take a few more hours😂 But I get your point entirely, I still hope someone wouldn't take it wrongly🫡 And I usually don't like to think about how someone unfamiliar with the canon would perceive it. I could also look at something about a book that I don’t know anything about and jump to conclusions, but I don’t think that means it’s the fault of the book or the person who spoke about it. God knows, a lot of people who play Twisted tend to change and misinterpret characters, which, of course, is normal, but still (*looks at Cater, nervously*)

[@CatherineDorneles]

Not the comment section mad that the heir socialized his entire life to believe that having his every need tended to and that having servants is normal and not harmful to anyone behaves like a heir socialized his entire life to believe that having his every need tended to and that having servants is normal and not harmful to anyone 💀 Bonus that a lot of Kalim haters are also Leona fans, who is... a spoiled prince who tried to murder a slum kid because his parents didn't love him enough 💀💀

[@shahadchii7615]

They both suck and annoying, happy?

[@yesthatmousyiris4887]

I feel weird because I like both Kalim and Leona but I also acknowledge they both have problems that led to certain things happening especially Leona as he made a choice to do bad things.

[@Scarlet.Moon.Prince83]

And then people don't understand why I don't like Kalim. 🙄

[@Silly-rvniii]

Girl believe me I understand why even though I don’t hate him… like people who have been sort of in Jamil’s place just know how it can mess you up for life and gain MAJOR trust issues that make you not have any friends or people you love and that’s just horrible

[@Scarlet.Moon.Prince83]

@Reni_Sugar-skull The one thing that makes me go 🤬 at Kalim is that Jamil is always doing EVERYTHING, but it's always Kalim (as housewarden) who ends up getting the credit. It's even worse when we know for a fact that Kalim would have ruined things if Jamil hadn't interfered/taken control of everything. Tbh, I'm amazed Jamil didn't overblot sooner. 👀

[@Silly-rvniii]

@@Scarlet.Moon.Prince83 no fr and how kalim doesn’t step up and gives him credit just makes him look so ignorant and selfish

[@Scarlet.Moon.Prince83]

@Reni_Sugar-skull Tbh, I'm not even sure he's all that oblivious as he seems to be. People sell Kalim to be this little ball of sunshine, but they forget that it's a magic school; I think the mirror would have sent him scurrying to RSA if he didn't have something villainous about him. I feel he hides under that look-at-me- I'm-happy-all-the-time-even-though-I-have-been-kidnapped-so-many-times facade to keep people from noticing he's a bit of a lazy coward. I mean, he can be cute sometimes, but most of it, he just grates on my nerves. 😮‍💨 As I keep telling people, I'm amazed Jamil hasn't overblotted earlier. 👀

[@ilu-icey]

​@@Scarlet.Moon.Prince83Actually, it's a canon fact Kalim was transferred to NRC, hence why he entered two weeks later. It's also hinted in Jamil's post-OB flashback that the reason that transfer got accepted was because Crowley was bribed (with a generous donation) by the Asims. So no Dark Mirror there, at least