Jan. 31: Should You Kill the Stump? - Mineral Stumps | Dream Farm w/ Bill Winke

On the second day of our month long TSI project, I discuss the tradeoffs related to killing the stump after you drop a tree. It is not a simple decision as the regrowth from that stump will be high in minerals that deer will browse and consume. The final decision is related to your forestry and land management goals and also to your deer density.

[@markbatzel]

Its always a great habit to put even small notches (Humboldt is my fav) in trees and carry a few plastic wedges to help steer a tree. Keep up the great work and amazing vids for all to learn from

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Mark. I appreciate the input and the support. Have a great day.

[@kenthorsen4558]

I've used both garlon and tordon for stump killing, and over the years I keep a coffee can with a paint brush and brush the tordon on the sap wood. That keeps it right where you need it. TSI is a labor of love!

[@bill-winke]

That is a good comment. Thanks Kent. It is definitely a labor of love. I have used that tool a lot in the past 25 years in many different settings and the result has always been good. The only negative experience I have had was when the area cut had a lot of invasive plants that then took off when they got more sunlight. That is something that has to be managed carefully.

[@Pwrcritter]

I used to hunt a similar property. Deer bed on the points and benches overlooking the valley. They see about everything. Makes it tough..

[@bill-winke]

That's why you gotta make it thick so they can't see as well. I am going to do a few episodes where I show what it looks like from some of the deer beds I run into so we can all see just what they see. Has been interesting for me as I am going through the farm to look at these beds and what the deer see from them.

[@youtubeuserUCVuhjgRB1]

4:00 thank for always teaching us Bill even in mistakes! Enjoying the new content!

[@bill-winke]

Thanks for the comment. I appreciate it. Have a great day.

[@patrickwolf4373]

I know it’s hard work, Bill, but keep up the great work! Always enjoy your videos - Thank you!

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Patrick. I appreciate it. I hope you have a great day.

[@mikemezerewski6024]

Throw a couple of wedges and a 2 lb sledge in your bucket and you shouldn't have to take your saw apart.

[@bill-winke]

Yes, good point Mike. Excellent advice. Have a great day.

[@seanmryncza4968]

Once again you bring to light the reality of what happens . Yes it is hard arduous work. Everything does not go the way you want. Saw stuck shows common daily happenings. I appreciate yours and Jordan’s? “Real World” situations and views, Thank you

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Sean for the support and the comment. After four days I am just barely starting to get my second wind. This TSI work is really hard in this steep country. It has sure been kicking my butt.

[@savagewagon6038]

Very rewarding work. The best saw guys out there get the bar stuck when aren’t paying attention. Great video

[@bill-winke]

Thanks for the comment and the support. Have a great day.

[@robb9433]

Always look forward to your videos! Glad that you are continuing putting content out. There is never enough! If I had to pick one channel to watch for the rest of my life it would be yours.

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Robb. We will keep them coming. I appreciate the support. Have a great day.

[@josephtreadlightly5686]

The year my father died of cancer was a rough one. It was a relief to see him go after 3 years of struggling. But I needed a distraction & that distraction was 2 spring beaver traplines 100 miles apart. The days were long but rewarding. I belonged to a fur auction sale in Canada. I sent 70÷ beavers up there. All were dry pelts that I dropped off @ different locations. I had ten 65 lb. beavers & they sort the pelts into dozens of categories. I won five 1st place lots in 5 categories which added to my $ total. But that spring prepared me for anything that life might throw @ me😮.

[@kylekrzewina1135]

I feel your pain on how much work that is. We did 20 acres of clear cutting cedars in Wisconsin for the same purpose. The 2 of us complete that in 3 years. Now working on controlled burns. The process is never ending but it's fun to see the progress. Keep it up!

[@bill-winke]

Kyle, you definitely know how much work this is. One of the biggest challenges here is the terrain. So steep in spots that you can barely stay on your feet when cutting.

[@kylekrzewina1135]

@bill-winke yep same as here in Buffalo county. Cutting cedars down and they flip end over end 3-5 times before stopping. That terrain will wear a guy down. Good luck on the 52 acres!

[@RS-ms1bz]

Bill, on my West Virginia mountain property, any deer favored trees I take down, I leave the stumps to produce new shoots. Being completely forested, the deer population needs as much extra food as possible to try to keep them anchored on or around my 98 acres. I'm sure it's different for each property. Having no ag or open fields around for miles, leaving the stumps to produce young shoots is the best option for my property.

[@bill-winke]

Good point. That is what I did on the farm in southern Iowa too. The deer ate all the sprouts on everything but ironwood.

[@robertforss8881]

I really enjoy seeing the progress of your farm. The habitat work is hard but I think it's just as fun as hunting. That must mean I'm getting old.

[@bill-winke]

Robert, I agree with you. I really enjoy that part, but I have talked to younger guys that seem to really like it too, I think it is just being outside on the land that we are all so addicted to.

[@MollyDogg1234]

It's a labor of love for those of us who enjoy whitetails!!

[@bill-winke]

Agree. I enjoy the management stuff at least as much as the hunting now.

[@michaelwinter4759]

I'm getting natural TSI on my place. The number of green ash that has been wiped out by the Emerald Ash Borer has been incredible. I've got trees lying everywhere. I only hope that other invasives do not flourish like that miserable multiflora rose.

[@bill-winke]

I am no lover of ash trees, but the ash borer is a huge problem. I don't have any ash to speak of on this place, so it is not a factor, but in some areas the ash bore is killing off big areas. Multiforal rose is not the worst, unfortunately. You can kind of half way manage that if you want to. The worst is bush honeysuckle. Once it gets started it is really hard to get rid of. Good luck.

[@brianshively9628]

I do a ton of tsi work primarily for the health and value of the woods not so much for deer. Plus I just like being in the woods and running a chain saw! Mostly ironwood, locust, buckeye, maybe a hackberry here and there plus any invasives. I find the elms will die anyway, so why spend my time cutting. I always treat stumps with 50/50 generic roundup and rv antifreeze plus a little food coloring to tell where I have been. I also use spray bottles to apply as I feel the tordon type bottles are slower and maybe more wasteful. Fun stuff unless you get a saw stuck! I have found winch on 4 wheeler great for getting stuff freed up!

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Brian. It is definitely exercise and I do enjoy felling trees. There is something satisfying about the task. Have a great day and thanks for the support.

[@ddz2049]

I get just as excited for "Management Season" as I do for deer season...

[@bill-winke]

Me too. I really enjoy making the changes and seeing what we can do with the land. It is like a big massive landscaping project.

[@StevenSmith-7t391]

Bill you’re getting older. Even small jobs get a little tougher. Hang in there. You’ll get it done. Really enjoy your videos.

[@bill-winke]

Don't I know it. I have decided that you have to be old to afford a farm and you have to be young to manage it well!

[@davidfleer5307]

I always take 2-3 saws in case one gets stuck and a couple felling wedges helps also ✌🏻👍🇺🇸

[@bill-winke]

We have been able to get by without the wedges, but we have had to use the second saw more than once to get a stuck saw freed.

[@johnhanzlik4754]

Hi Bill, new follower really enjoy the content super interesting and helpful. Thanks

[@bill-winke]

Thanks John and welcome. We appreciate the support.

[@jerryandkendramullet1939]

Hope this helps you. I usually girdle and spray anything bigger than 10" diameter. You can work alot faster.

[@bill-winke]

I just want them on the ground. It creates instant cover and the top provides a place for new growth to get a start without being browsed by deer. Plus, I just don't like the looks of all those dead trees in the forest. It is just me, I suppose, but I want them on the ground. Thanks for the comment.

[@lisaannaallen6283]

a 1 gal. hudson sprayer works well saves on brush killer.

[@bill-winke]

I do need to carry a small sprayer so it is more convenient to kill the stumps. Have a great day and thanks for the support.

[@kokadjooutdoors620]

Been felling trees around my white oaks. Thinking may make some primitive blinds with the logs for next season. Put where can sneak in and hide easily

[@bill-winke]

Sounds like a great plan to me. Good luck.

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

In Michigan especially Northern lower and upper. They love maple sprouts, aspens, ash, oak, ect. I cut pockets of aspen and maple every winter in like a 25 35 yard sq area. The browse it hard.

[@bill-winke]

The deer population is not super high here but I do think they will browse the stumps and new growth. This farm will have so much food that these deer will be the fattest on the planet. In the end, they will be healthy and the bucks will grow big antlers. Will be fun to see it play out.

[@travissmith-wz5nc]

@@bill-winke you ever try plot rock or azomite to add trace minerals to plots? Seems like it works

[@homeinthewhiteoaks]

I just bought (from Amazon) a paint touch up roller bottle for applying herbicide. To apply after a chainsaw gives me a stump, but have not tried it yet. Tests with water showed promise? The older I get the more I like Hack and Squirt method, a couple days with a chainsaw is about all my joints can take, but I can Hack and Squirt trees all week.

[@bill-winke]

That is a very good idea. I will look into trying one. Thanks for the support and the comment. Have a great day.

[@usernamehere6061]

Garlon 3a is weak at targeting those Bitternut hickories, Bill. Cambium layer fyi. Its where the Xylem and Phloem are located. Edit: Why were you not recommended to hack-n-squirt more? If your goal is not woody browse, thats what I would recommend. Especially if you do not plan to follow up with fire, snags would not be an issue?

[@bill-winke]

I will be coming back with fire. I had only limited success with hack and squirt on my other farm. A percentage of the trees didn't die. Maybe it the timing of when it was done, or the species. Plus, I like having the tops on the ground. Creates instant cover and structure in which other trees/undergrowth can find sanctuary until it is big enough to withstand browsing damage. May not be as big a deal here on this farm with moderate deer density, but a difference maker on the southern Iowa farm with lots of deer.

[@stephenmcatee2104]

i mix my tordon with glyphosate and put it in a spray bottle it works perfect,

[@bill-winke]

Good tip. Thanks Stephen. I appreciate it.

[@edwardclark5211]

Dream Big brother 🙏

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Edward. Same to you.

[@craigzie2594]

If you have Amish in your neighborhood. Hire them . Two guys cutting they get alot done

[@robertfmccarthy2360]

Labor of love

[@bill-winke]

This is a lot of work Robert, but I should toughen up in a few days.

[@lawrencedonna8240]

Sir Bill...Great episode. Have an unrelated question. Since the weather in WI is like mid March and forecasted to remain like that for a couple weeks, can I think about frost seeding clover or should I contain my excitement and wait until typical "frost seeding time of year". Thanks, Larry

[@bill-winke]

Larry, I think it depends on the specific plants you are seeding. Some of the clover blends will struggle and maybe even die if you germinate the seed and then get really hard freezes. It is probably better, to be safe, to wait until the normal frost seeding time. Good luck.

[@davidbaker5701]

The vascular cambium, just under the bark

[@bill-winke]

Yes, that's it. Thanks for the clarification.

[@gsquared2394]

I get bars stuck every year, happens to us amateurs. Always have a 2nd saw

[@bill-winke]

Trees sometimes have a mind of their own. We got two saws stuck in one tree today because it defied physics and seemed to tip in the opposite direction from the overhanging branches. Have a great day.

[@stevebostic9812]

Bill, my question is about deer travel corridors in relation the trees you dropped. Im getting started this weekend doing some TSI and have been thinking about that aspect. Do you consider corridors on your TSI?

[@bill-winke]

Steve, I don't. Just finding enough pockets to open up enough to get adequate sunlight to the ground is my number one priority. I may come back and cut trails through the downed trees, but I also think the deer will figure it out. If you have places you want them go to and others you want them to avoid, I am sure that cutting trails later would really pay off. Good luck.

[@coldsteel1648]

I own property and hunt in northwestern Wisconsin. I've read, and you've stated in the past, that you have to kill 25%-30% of does in an area to just maintain the current population. I agree with that, but I feel that we have a couple more factors to add into the mix where I'm at...e.g., typically harsh winters and an abundance of predators (bears, wolves, coyotes, bobcats), and these impacts are probably variable and hard to quantify. If you were in my situation, how would this influence your decision on the number of does to kill each year?

[@bill-winke]

Coldsteel, I would definitely kill less in your situation. I would be at 0 to 10% at first and then see where that leads. Those other factors are much harder to adjust for than just normal mortality and hunting pressure. Good luck.

[@TheMws1]

On the bright side you have lots of firewood .

[@bill-winke]

That is definitely for sure.

[@mikemcblain5812]

Will you go through and cut/ clear any walking paths for the deer? Potential to funnel them to where you want them to walk?

[@bill-winke]

Mike, that is a great idea. At the very least we should go back through and open back up the trails we clogged by dropping trees across them.

[@tommyhunter1817]

My deer here in north Georgia love mineral stumps. We have a lot of deer so they can stay ahead of them. I’ve been wondering if any of the species I have on my Kansas farm would produce sprouts deer would eat. I doubt they’d eat locust or Osage.

[@bill-winke]

Tommy, I am not 100 percent sure on that. I know they eat most of the species I have here in this part of the Midwest, except ironwood. Not sure about locust and hedge. If I had to guess, I would say they will eat the sprouts, but I am not 100% sure. Good luck.

[@tommyhunter1817]

@@bill-winke if I do it, I will let you know so we can both learn something. I’ve always been to scared to cut a locust and not kill it!!

[@alexpinnow6509]

Bill do you have any areas on the farm that are due for logging or is the timber too young/not the desired tree species?

[@bill-winke]

There are some really big oaks and some good walnuts in some areas, but I have not scheduled any commercial timber cuts here. I need to do that sometime in the next five years, or so, to open up a few more areas and create a bit of working capital. It is always good to do a balanced harvest on a property. Best to employ a good forester to help you determine what to take and when. Good luck.

[@mitchellgenz1373]

I call that chainsaw therapy. It’s very rewarding work, but hard.

[@bill-winke]

Definitely wears me out after each day.

[@Inglewood510]

Shouldn't be cutting trees down without have any wedges in your cutting box. They come in handy more then one would think

[@dawrangla1986]

Is it best to just leave the trees on the ground or do you cut them up?

[@bill-winke]

I leave them on the ground to create protected areas for regrowth of other plants and to rot and increase fertility of the soil. If you have a market for them that's another story but most of what we are cutting has no market value in this area.

[@jeffamckee]

Why not hinge the tree so it stays alive and puts all of that food on the forest floor? 70% of the whitetail's diet is woody browse.

[@bill-winke]

I am doing another episode about that probably tomorrow. I want to remove these trees from the cover and replace them with undergrowth that is more attractive. I have never been a fan of hinge cutting. I have done it some but don't do it any longer.

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

I cut couple locust bout size of my leg to try the mineral stump , they didnt sprout back ?

[@lonniechartrand]

That surprises me greatly as ANY locust trees, be they honey or black, will sprout like crazy unless stump treated! If I cut down one locust, and don't treat it, I will have ten or more popping up as they are root sprouters.

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

@@lonniechartrand thats what i was told but as of yet nothing,cut them 2 summers ago , check them last spring nothing

[@steveallison7940]

What computer program do you use to draw out your areas?

[@bill-winke]

Photoshop. I also do some of it right in the HuntStand app.

[@WChrisHodges]

I have cut many small cedars in my CRP, but haven’t used a chemical killer on the stump. Do you know if cedars regenerate from the stump. Seems like there are so many to cut every year, so just wondering if I need to treat them the next go around.

[@raprock5000]

ChrisHodges I'm not 💯% sure but I don't believe pines and cedars normally do come back from the stumps. I believe they die from being cut unlike other trees.

[@raprock5000]

Bill does that herbicide you're using just stick to the stump until it's actively growing again ? Because right now they aren't actively growing.

[@raprock5000]

ChrisHodges Google says as long as you cut the cedars off below the bottom branch you shouldn't have any regrowth the stump will die.

[@WChrisHodges]

@@raprock5000 Thank you. I appreciate the response.

[@bill-winke]

As long as you cut below the lowest live branch the cedar will die. Good luck.

[@dwbowhunterable]

Get some wedges. Cheap.

[@bill-winke]

Yes, but then you have to carry something to drive them in with. We carry a lot into those hills already. That was just a novice mistake. We should be OK as long as we pay attention to what we are doing and notch the trees correctly.

[@kylehenk983]

Really respect everything you guys do on your show, great to see you doing Timber stand improvement. Just make sure to cut a wedge in the face of the tree. It’s cheap insurance to fell it the right way. as for the wedge(plastic) just put it in your back cut to keep the tree going in the right direction. I always just use a piece of log if I have to hit the wedge too, no hammer needed. Be careful too. I’ve been logging and chainsaw carving along time, I’ve seen a lot of people get hurt

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

Yeah the chainsaw is work ,

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

Carsons expression is priceless lol

[@bill-winke]

Almost too much for an old guy. I have decided that you have to be old to afford a farm and young in order to manage it well!

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

@@bill-winke yes sadly so

[@adamgreden1682]

Id watch bill winke read a book

[@bill-winke]

I appreciate it. Hopefully, this /TSI stuff is a bit more interesting than that! Have a great day.

[@adamgreden1682]

@@bill-winke I love it! We are doing this on our farm also.

[@ST-xx9rt]

Another method to remove unwanted trees is the hack and squirt method. Bill i sent you an email w/link. It'll save your back and legs

[@bill-winke]

I appreciate it and I did look that over. Personally, I like the trees on the ground. We aren't cutting very many really big trees (over 10 to 12 inches and we are getting more efficient at getting them on the ground), so it is not like we are going to save tons of time. I just don't like looking at the forest with a lot of dead trees in it. I guess it is just me. There is also a practical reason for dropping them: you get the benefit of the instant cover from the top and you also get the longer term benefit of the top creating a sanctuary for regrowth free from deer browsing. I know there is a tradeoff here, but that is why I don't do it.