Japanese Immersion Learning 1 Year Update (Refold/MIA/AJATT)

[@user-fr7ye9hi9e]

just doing it is the way to go. doing something wrong and fixing it later is for sure way better than not starting or trying to perfect it.

[@benajatt]

Great video man! Hearing people talk about going through a language learning journey is so wholesome.

[@GaijinGreg96]

I'm glad that you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!

[@PistolPete.r]

Good shit! Very much support the health and wellness goal. I much of my passive listening to podcasts while at the gym. I definitely notice my ability to comprehend Japanese is better when I’m in better shape. Keep it up!

[@JouzuJuls]

What's good king, congrats on hitting the 1 year mark!! 🥳 I really like hearing people's journeys and giving them some pointers in the right direction, so pardon the long comment please! . Hearing that immersion seems less like a task and more like just a thing you do is awesome- that's what true immersion should really be! Interesting to see that you've been using Podcasts but it seems all the podcasts are for Japanese learners instead of Japanese natives, is there any reason in particular you're not going for material meant for natives? (Since everything else you've been reading/watching is meant for natives, this just seems to stand out). . Also I see you briefly brought up doing RTK but in the same sentence mentioned remembering the "meanings and pronunciation". I hope you've already been aware that RTK's out of context approach is not meant to help you remember the meanings and pronunciation of kanji, but instead to quickly blast you with hundreds of kanji and assign them an arbitrary "keyword" that may or may not be the actual meaning. Trying to remember the pronunciation using an out of context approach like RTK is extremely counterintuitive and inefficient! . You've also brought up Tae Kim and how it confuses you. This is not the fault of the learner, it's the fault of Tae Kim as the fundamentals of what he teaches are flawed and don't make sense. With 1 year of experience I seriously recommend watching Cure Dolly starting with understanding the concept of the Øが, this should completely shift your understanding of the language and allow you to suddenly have that eureka moment where everything just makes sense. . Briefly you brought up Refold and their approach to Grammar too. The thing with Refold is that a lot of the stuff is not really based on science, it's based on what Matt thinks. I've made a video talking about this but everybody who uses the immersion/input based approach uses it because of Krashen right- but Krashen never said that study is ineffective, he actually said the opposite. Krashen states that "Anything that helps make input comprehensible, helps language acquisition". So therefore Kanji study and Grammar study, if it helps make the input comprehensible and you ARE getting that input- is in fact, very effective. . On the topic of card creation and sentence mining, don't feel like you MUST finish Core. Personally I only did up to 3K before feeling like the words weren't cutting it for me anymore. I then transitioned slowly into mining by repurposing other decks first. . You state you don't feel ready for the monolingual transition but from my outside viewpoint, you probably are. You just need to know how to go about it. Remember that the transition is not a singular point where you suddenly forget how to read English definitions, but instead a slow process taking several months where you slowly begin to integrate more and more Japanese definitions into the cards you create. To start the process, you can simply use the Japanese definitions where you know every single word, but use English definitions if you don't know 2 or more words. If you don't know a single word, mine that one word into a card and use the English definition for that word (unless you know every single word in the JP definition). If you understand every single word in a JP definition but still can't really understand it, try translating the JP definition using a translator and using the translated definition in Anki. . ^ Doing so will allow you to slowly learn vocab that is frequently used in the dictionary and allow you to do more and more JP definitions. ALSO, use Google's JP dictionary (Oxford JP), it's meant for regular humans more so than linguists. Stuff like 新明解 and 広辞苑 are very reputable but are also filled with high level jargon meant for field specific people or linguists more so than regular people. . About Dogen's course, I feel that's why to advanced for your level. I'm 3 years in with relatively good pitch accent already (to the point where some Japanese people can't tell I'm not Japanese), and I've just started Dogen's course a few months ago- it feels perfect for my current level. . In regards to Pitch Accent, I recommend seriously training your ears now before it's too late, I have a video for this on my channel. Without ear training, you aren't actually inputting properly in the first place because you are simply UNABLE to hear the right pitch in many words. The earlier you train your ears, the more benefit your immersion will do for you. . Furthermore, just to clear something up, Pitch is not something you need a LOT of dedicated time for. Ear training takes a few minutes a day and your daily immersion will serve as practice. You don't have to choose between good pitch and being able to speak. The choice is whether you want to immerse and end up speaking with bad pitch, or immerse and end up speaking with good pitch. . With Subtitles, general consensus is that target lang subtitles are BETTER for language acquisition since more is comprehensible. I feel there is no need to turn OFF the subs if the subs are available because there is plenty of material available out there that don't have subs to begin with. You'll have more problems finding content WITH Japanese subs than not- so treasure the subs! . Again, sorry for giving advice when you never asked for it! Just felt the urge to write a bit of my thoughts on your video too! Hope you'll consider some of my thoughts!

[@Hoppitot]

What are the best ways to start learning and hearing pitch accent

[@GaijinGreg96]

Holy moly this was an incredible comment with so much insight! I appreciate it all. With regards to RRTK, I do understand the point is to just have the "keyword" of what the character is. The fact that it doesn't really serve any other purpose is why i feel like I'm ready to throw it out. I will take your advice regarding sentence mining and the monolingual transition to heart. I probably am being a little too much of a wimp and staying in my comfort zone just a little too much with those. I will definitely be dipping my toes and exploring those in the upcoming months. With regards to pitch accent. I have trained my ears a little bit with some videos and a very small Anki deck, but definitely want to look into it a little more to make sure that I'm correctly hearing the pitch. I feel like I am often times but this could really be a case of I don't even know what I don't know. I was under the impression that Dogen's course may be beneficial for this but maybe not? I didn't hit on everything here but seriously thank you for taking the time to give your advice. It is ALWAYS appreciated!

[@maddiewilhelmy4731]

It has been amazing to watch you grow on this journey, I can’t believe it has been a whole year already! Your dedication is inspiring

[@renanpereira5487]

Great vid, bud. Congratulations on your journey. I'm 2 months in and enjoying the process.

[@GaijinGreg96]

You got this!

[@aislynncarpenter701]

Thanks for the specifics recommendations on podcasts and shows 😁

[@gabetweedie774]

You have an incredibly likable personality! Very chill but enthusiastic

[@GaijinGreg96]

Thank you!

[@barganon1321]

I started learning on May 1st 2023, and watching your journey is extremely wholesome. Contrary to you I started with mainly reading and, while it is very difficult, it became more natrual for me. I think the same as you in terms of reading with kanji is easier than hiragana, even though if you don't know the kanji you can't understand the sentence. Looking forward to the future of your journey. Cheers

[@GaijinGreg96]

You're almost to the one year mark, congrats!!

[@Mehhlone]

woahhh i got that same exact naruto shirt i wear it all the time😂 i just looked down and im wearing it right now lmaoo. cant wait to watch it without subtitles too. great vid, great recommendations.

[@GaijinGreg96]

It's such a fire shirt!!!

[@maxmckellar9027]

Great video! Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and learning journey with us. I've been I learning Japanese about 2 and half years and have been actively immersing the past year and a half. A few thoughts related to what you brought up: I totally agree that spending some time studying grammar regularly is very helpful. Like you said, the language is structured so differently from English that acquiring all the nuances of Japanese grammar through immersion alone could take thousands of hours and still not guarantee you would have a clear understanding. I never did grammar drills but I basically spend about 10 minutes a day reading through grammar books, and this very comfortable and helpful. The good thing about Japanese grammar is, it's extremely flexible with regard to word order. As long you as you use the appropriate particles and verb conjugations, you will be understood by natives. I think it's also useful to point out, in spoken Japanese people often don't speak in complete sentences. Particles and subjects are omitted all the time. This makes it seem confusing, but it's actually simpler than how grammar guides describe. With regard to pitch accent: I went through Dogen's course and found it was very insightful. That being said, I don't think it's necessary. If you understand the four pitch patterns (Atamadaka, Nakadaka, Odaka, Heiban), that's all you need really. I found the best exercise to develop pitch accent awareness is to find a word in immersion, guess what the pitch accent is, look up the pitch accent of the word, and compare to your initial guess. This will really train you to notice the details of pitch accents and how they map onto words. The trickiest I think is Heiban (the "flat" pitch accent) because Heiban words actually do have a slight change a pitch and vary depending on the consonant/vowel structure of the word. Because pitch accent is a fundamental feature of the language, I think it is necessary and should be learned early on. That being said, I think people blow out of proportion the importance of speaking with perfect pitch accent. Japanese people will almost always understand you regardless if your pitch accent is correct. Some people compare pitch accent to tones (such as in Chinese), I think this is a poor comparison. If you speak Chinese with the wrong tones, it will be incomprehensible to native Chinese speakers. The same is not true for Japanese. Sorry for sharing so much of my personal thoughts and feelings, as you can guess I'm pretty passionate about Japanese 😂 I think your approach is great and you seem to have a really good attitude and mindset for learning the language. Keep it up and can't wait to see your future content!

[@GaijinGreg96]

This is really good insight! I always love hearing from people who are willing to share!! I've been working with the migaku pitch accent training tool and been finding that helpful. I think the biggest issue I have right now is that I can hear the pitches and can "imitate" them in my head (at least I think I can properly), but I can't really correctly identify which pitch it is by name or pattern. Definitely will be trying to consciously pay more attention to it while immersing but trying not to overdo it. Probably will take a look at Dogen's videos at some point since so many people have recommended it.

[@maxmckellar9027]

If you are interesting in pitch accent and Japanese pronunciation, Dogen's Patreon series is excellent. Very in-depth with lot's of information.　頑張ってね！@@GaijinGreg96

[@jojos3685]

Glad you are staying consistent man! I had watched your 6 month update video back when I was about a month into my own journey, and now I'm 7 months in. Seeing your dedication for sure inspires me man. I also wanted to say, my approach to grammar isn't as intensive as anything else I do, but I agree that you need to familiarize yourself with grammar just like anything else in the language. I started using coto-academy videos for grammar. I'd watch a video on a grammar point, and summarize it into an anki card with form/meaning/examples, and found it probably my favorite method to learning grammar in general. Also for sure going to be checking out allice and borderland again, completely forgot I can use it for immersion. Your point on preferring kanji to hirigana is literally the same way I see it haha. I find myself getting more confused on a sentence's generally meaning when the hiragana contents far outweighs the kanji.

[@GaijinGreg96]

I've heard some things about coto academy so maybe I'll take a look at their videos. Keep on the grind!

[@CowboyBGM]

cheers from the 3 year mark. Keep going like this it's worth it

[@eigojiyouzu]

Well done dude! Keep it up. Keep doing what you enjoy, stay consistent and the rest will fall into place as you have already witnessed. I'm 1 year and 2 months in (gettting to around lower N2 now although i don't study for the JLPT) and have been living in Tokyo going on half a year. It's soo much fun using the language, making friends and just engaging with the people here that may not even be japanese but they don't know english. I would just encourage everyone learning japanese to visit japan and use their language ability asap because that is where the fun is at. You will get zero additional enjoyment from having perfect pronunciation or perfect grammar, those things will improve along the way. Don't delay the enjoyment of engaging with the language and it's people irl for longer than you have to. Although my pronunciation is not bad it is certainly not amazing and i have not had a single person misunderstand me. See you back here in a year?

[@GaijinGreg96]

So jealous of your experiences in Japan! I will get there someday, soon!!

[@PatChatGC]

Awesome update, looking forward to seeing more in the future!

[@GaijinGreg96]

Thanks for watching!

[@jordendarrett1725]

Love to see this update!

[@silverblade43]

Awesome to see man. Happy to see someone enjoy the process and personalize their study methodology to fit them. I am only about 3 weeks in to my japanese journey (with similar hour goals 2 hrs or so) and it has been great. I tried to learn japanese last year too and I just tried to do way too much. Burned myself out and I wanted nothing to do with Japanese for a while. But now I just look forward to simple progress. Having a new world really stick or being able to pick out another word in a sentence that I did not know before. As long as I make it fun I think it really will not be that hard to stay consistent. Also I totally agree with learning kanji with vocab. It just sticks so much better. Learning it in isolation is just useless for me lol

[@GaijinGreg96]

One day at a time!

[@Djax111]

I was hoping your latest post was coming! I stumbled upon your first post right before you released your 6 month and I am right behind you with how much Ive learned. These videos help me feel less alone in trying to conquer the beast that is a 2nd language acquisition. I'm stoked that you are pushing through and learning your own way. I think you really hit the nail on the head that sometimes we get bogged down with trying to have the perfect method off rip, but it aint like that at all lol. It does just take getting in there and doing the dang thing. And you almosy learn yourself more than the language 😂 Also I agree with RTK. I loved it at first, but Anki truly is carrying me, especially since the 2k-6k deck covers essentially all of it. Super pumped for your 18 month update, and I hope you post other helpful tips related to Japanese too!

[@GaijinGreg96]

Thanks for watching, Stay tuned!!

[@Djax111]

@@GaijinGreg96 awesome man! Will do!

[@laserkeyboardpro4239]

So proud of you being able to watch Naruto with no subs! While I haven’t seen it myself , seeing the light in your eyes of excitement made me so happy! You are so handsome ! Good luck on your journey ! I’m only two months in hah

[@GaijinGreg96]

2 months > 0 months, keep up the good work!!

[@nickm3694]

I subscribed to dogen's patreon, and although his 'pitch accent' series does go over pitch accent a lot, it's actually more broadly a pronunciation series. I say that since there are a good few videos in there that he spends not going over pitch accent and instead going over the pronunciation of each phoneme of Japanese, and certain phonomenon specific to Japanese pronunciation. It's a really great resource, and though he sets up some of it like a thing to be studied or memorized, I still find it valuable just to watch through and get a sense of how things work, even if I don't remember every detail.

[@GaijinGreg96]

Interesting, this is very good to know. I honestly didn't really have an idea of how he had things set up so this gives me a little bit better of an idea of what I'd be getting into.

[@BusterBossJR]

I can definitely relate to a lot of the things you said as someone who's around the same stage as you. Especially the part about the language feeling more and more natural to spend time with which is a really cool feeling. For my favorite kind of input material honestly it's been food/cooking videos for me lol. Idk what it is but I feel like having something obvious that the video is about both helps keep my interest but also drastically increases comprehension since I can see what they're talking about on screen. This works for other stuff too where they're showing what's going on but food vids have been my go-to. I usually do a mix of freeflow/active immersion since I do look words up but I sometimes just sit back and immerse as well. The favorite thing I've consumed in Japanese so far has to be Terrace House tho and there I had to do a lot more active immersion since the range of vocabulary used is broader. Good luck going forward with your Japanese journey! Seems like you got the process figured out so I can't imagine it's not gonna go well. And thanks for the recommendations, I'll definitely check a few of the shows out!

[@GaijinGreg96]

I loved Terrace House and can't wait to go back in a year or so to compare how much I can comprehend. I will have to check out cooking videos because I love food. Just gotta hope it doesn't ruin my diet haha

[@BusterBossJR]

@@GaijinGreg96 Haha yeah that's the tough part about cooking vids. But luckily Japanese food is generally quite healthy so you can get some good inspiration sometimes

[@kiiturii]

I definitely agree with what you said at the end, people fall into the trap of only watching "how to learn japanese" videos and end up constantly switching things up because it's supposedly going to be more efficient, I fell into this trap around 2 years ago when I first tried learning Japanese. I wasted so much time watching how to videos instead of just putting on an anime with japanese subs or something lol.. It ended up really burning me out just constantly watching videos of different methods and optimizations to the learning process that I eventually just felt so frustrated that I ended up stopping entirely I've now come to the realization that learning a language doesn't have to be so hard, in fact it's quite easy, it just takes a shit ton of time. English is my 3rd language and I realized that I don't even remember when I picked it up, or how long it took, I just remember a time when I barely knew any english, and then a time when I was completely fine communicating online. It's all just immersion, if you have a reason to want to use the language you will learn it, you just have to trust your brain and not overthink the process

[@GaijinGreg96]

I always love hearing other people's experiences when it comes to "optimization". Thanks for sharing!

[@HypotheticalTiger]

let's gooooo 🔥🔥🔥

[@ozziepaul]

dogens course is deffinetly amazing bro! it helped me become much much aware of pitch !

[@marcosoliveira4607]

looking like a 100% based samurai already, congratulations on the 1 year mark!

[@GaijinGreg96]

Thank you!

[@ah_dan6572]

Hey Greg, I'm very new but I'm really appreciating/enjoying your videos so far. Only one week in and struggling to "immerse" because it's just noise and half a dozen words per anime episode (if that), the rest is just noise. I'm not sure how useful it is yet, but I've also been doing passive podcasts with the same feeling. I'm sticking with it for now, looking forward to getting to a point where I feel like i can read, even basic level 0 stuff. I think the immerion/refold guys have a great point, but also a lot of the people in those communities are just students with all the time in the world and little patience for those who can't drop everything and commit. Glad to hear your wife is doing Spanish too, hope she's stuck with it and your both having fun with it. All the best from England 😁

[@GaijinGreg96]

The beginning of learning any new skill is definitely the most hard part so stick with it! It will certainly be rough for awhile but as you learn more of the common vocabulary words and get used to things I think you'll find enjoyment in the content even when you don't understand everything.

[@CooldownCentral]

great job btw!!! this is a long journey but you are not alone!

[@GaijinGreg96]

Thanks for the support!

[@languagewhorder]

For listening I love Nihongo con Teppei and Japanese Ammo with Missa but another one I've been enjoying is Japanese with Shun here on KZbin. It's really great for beginners at the N5-N4 level and I listen to it while I work most days along with Nihongo con Teppei.

[@GaijinGreg96]

Missed this comment some how 5 months ago but I love Shun's channel and podcast! He has good stuff!

[@flashgordon6510]

I've been studying daily for a little over 2 years, and it does actually get easier! Well, parts do. Just when some things get easier, there's a whole new mountain of grammar and vocab to conquer. I have a teacher on iTalki who is wonderful, and that keeps me motivated. If you're hesitant to start outputting, there's a great group convo class on iTalki on Mondays that I can recommend. Your experience is so similar to mine, it makes me smile. I also have to be careful not to drive people crazy by talking about language learning all the time. To me, output is the hardest. It's frustrating to want to say something and realize there's just one word you don't know yet, so you can't make your sentence. But I keep trying! I also use Chat for practicing. Regarding kanji, do you use WaniKani at all? I've been grinding on that for two years now too. It really helps for learning kanji as well as acquiring vocabulary. I recommend it. I'm glad KZbin showed me your channel. I subscribed! Looking forward to hearing more about your Japanese journey! 頑張ってね！

[@GaijinGreg96]

I haven't used WaniKani but I've heard a lot of people mention it. At this point I've really got my sentence mining workflow down so I think I'm going to keep learning vocab in that way for the time being. As far as outputting I'm going to keep holding off on that I think. My plan was to probably wait until around the 3 year mark and then start really practicing output diligently. Not sure if I will still feel that way in the following months but we shall see! Thanks for watching the video!!

[@私-r9p]

If you want a great deck that explains Tae Kim's grammar guide with examples from anime and series, you should take a look at the JLab's beginner course. It's not finished yet, but it gives you all the grammar up to about N4 level, and it really sticks after. I'm making a similar deck for myself (and maybe some day I will publish it) using anime and Game Gengo channel, and this process feels to be giving me a great boost.

[@GaijinGreg96]

I'll take a look at that deck for sure.

[@DonAnimegaOriginal]

Hey, congratulations on making it to a year! I’m glad you were able to make some more progress, it’s very motivating. I watched your 6 month update when it came out and now that you’ve hit a year I’m definitely motivated to try picking this back up. You spoke in your video about having days where you’re not particularly motivated to do Japanese and how sometimes you questioned if it’s even worth it. How do you keep pushing through when you have those thoughts? Much love and keep up the good work! がんばって！

[@GaijinGreg96]

As crazy as it seems... on the days where I don't want to do anything I usually "just do it" regardless of how I am feeling. I know logically that if I want to reach my goals I have to put in the work day in and day out. I will say that this doesn't work for everybody. I have a background in athletics and in general have a pretty hardcore personality so I'm used to pushing through some periods of low motivation or monotony. Have some grace for yourself and breaks are totally okay if that's what it takes for you! I've seen many people get derailed in life endeavors because they get so frustrated at themselves. Goals that are worth achieving take time and sometimes life happens and our priorities shift. Ride the high motivation periods as best you can and don't burn yourself out through the periods of low motivation. Not sure if that was helpful but best of luck to you on your journey! Thank you for the support!

[@TimBrownYoutube]

I use Wanikani & Bunpro & watch youtube vids. I keep one spreadsheet for kanji, vocab, grammar. It's enough to keep anyone busy and incredible progress in 13 months. Vocab and grammar all starts to synergize when you acquire enough.

[@DFlaminberry]

Bunpro + wanikani with the integration for removing furigana is awesome. It's really reinforced the vocab from wanikani simultaneously with the grammar learning.

[@dennismcquoid9751]

According to the US Embassy, Japanese is the most difficult language. They train ambassadors to be fluent before they send them to the target countries. Training is 40 hours per week from 6 months (probably Spanish) to 2 years. Japanese, Korean, and Chinese are the longest at 2 years.

[@GaijinGreg96]

Yeah I've seen their categories of language "difficulty" before. I kind of have an opinion on this... I feel like no language is really inherently more "difficult" than another. Some just require more time to learn than others depending on what one's native language is. In the Japanese learning community I think people can get intimidated and discouraged from all the discussion regarding "difficulty" which I think is unfortunate. But maybe this is an immersion learner's perspective. It's very possible that when trying to learn a language by traditional methods, Japanese would be just straight up more difficult.

[@johncusatis5015]

I started in July, on and off doing duolingo for 5 min, then I got anki and did 20 cards a day, now I do 10. I’m 1k cards in and hope to keep going! I watch a lot of shows with English subtitles since I’m concerned that my understanding of the content won’t be enough. I also downloaded lingq, it costs money to use but the mini stories and other reading material could be helpful with your lack of reading! Would you recommend me just starting to go into shows without subtitles? I half/half pay attention to the Japanese audio but sometimes the subtitles help me figure out the meanings of words. See you at 18 months🤙🏻🔥

[@GaijinGreg96]

Personally, I think you should just rip the band-aid off and let go of the English subtitles immediately. It WILL be difficult at first, but it gets better over time. Using Japanese subtitles will help out a TON still and your brain will start to acquire new bits of the language very quickly.

[@johncusatis5015]

@@GaijinGreg96 ok I’ll start trying that, thank you! Also for speaking/texting in Japanese if there’s not many people around you the app “hello talk” is great for that! I use it often, but I still mainly prioritize vocal and input over speaking for now

[@Mira-qx9ke]

Everyone has different goals obviously but ive heard reading alot in the beginning stages can negatively effect your pronunciation in the long run since your "outputing" in you're head while you read basically. Despite this ive started reading a bit myself just because its been too fun lol but maybe something to keep in mind. Great video as always.

[@GaijinGreg96]

Yeah I have heard that form people as well. But on the other hand I have also heard that reading is the fastes way to boost language comprehension/acquisition... I've been trying to find a good balance... Mostly listening and audio based activities for me but defs mixing in some reading when I feel like it!

[@Drakeneo]

Why's it matter if you have an accent? Accents are more about in-group status than anything else.

[@paulwalther5237]

It sounds like your immersion journey is going smoother than mine did. For European languages I think jumping straight into immersion is great and I DID try with Japanese (and now Korean) but man it’s a slog. I did get a good intermediate with Japanese but I had to move to Japan for two years 😂.

[@GaijinGreg96]

I'm curious what you felt like the biggest differences (in your experiences) were between the European languages and the East Asian ones?

[@paulwalther5237]

Besides everything? lol. The Japanese writing system was the immediate road block. Some people say to start speaking from day one. My approach to foreign languages was start reading from day one. That failed horribly for Japanese.@@GaijinGreg96

[@GaijinGreg96]

Yeah Kanji definitely are a HUGE barrier to reading early on!@@paulwalther5237

[@Tyranitar41]

Looking good man! Regarding the monolingual transition, I'm in a very similar spot to you in my japanese language journey and I've recently added a monolingual dictionary to my yomichan, but I keep both dictionaries. I mainly use the english one but on some words that I feel a bit weird about the translation I will check the monolingual one. Also it helps that you can yomichan WITHIN yomichan. TBH I'm not sure if I'll ever fully transition to monolingual or at least it's very far in the future, since I really don't see much benefit compared to the method I'm using.

[@GaijinGreg96]

Yeah a lot of people have let me know that yomichan/yomitan is the wave. I gotta try it out and see how it compares to migaku.

[@paulwalther5237]

I think studying grammar is great unless you hate it. I could understand Spanish and French texts really easily and I think it’s because the languages and the culture is close to English. It’s kind of surprising how easy it clicks. But producing is another thing. I haven’t gotten fluent in either of those languages and I think I would need to study the grammar more. Or maybe do 10 hours of immersion everyday for several years…

[@gregeaster3335]

honestly not a big fan of refold. i didnt like their anki deck philosophy nor do i think its particularly effective to watch content far above your current level which they suggest is a good approach because its more "fun" despite research showing graded readers being way more beneficial. also, a textbook at first is ridiculously useful. personally i dont really watch or listen to content, which is probably not a good thing, but I read a lot. My theory is that eventually id be able to read the subs well enough that immersion learning will be easy down the road when I get to that point. Also a lot of things like video games I'd probably enjoy doing, require a lot of reading ability.

[@soggyfan123]

While I just started immersing in a new language, I do have experience with my mother tongue that’s unfortunately not the best, but it’s still something. I’ve noticed that reading can be easier than listening, it might just be a personal thing, but I think when accounting for accents, dialects, speed, and other variables that are only very apparent in listening, I’d say having isolated dialogue without all of the nuances of speaking makes it easier to comprehend than listening. I think it can be easier to immerse in reading, at least over listening, and if you’ve been doing it for a while you’re definitely really good at reading. However, I imagine there’s going to be a gap once you delve into listening. Outputting in my mother tongue is the hardest, I know how to read, I know how to comprehend what others are saying, but I can’t put any of that knowledge to use unfortunately. As for my new target language, I’ve mostly been listening and I started reading recently, it’s been very fun. I’m not a refolder but I do take a mass immersion approach because I can. I think refold isn’t the biggest advocate for reading early on; personally I don’t care, I read cause it’s fun and that’s supposedly the mantra for their company lol. Sorry for the long comment, my experience isn’t everything and I’m sure it varies greatly from person to person, but I thought it might be interesting to note.

[@gregeaster3335]

@@soggyfan123 yeah I admit not listening isn't the best. I had a bad experience where I tried to intensely analyze anime line by line while watching it and it just was not fun at all. But I also want to understand it so...

[@GaijinGreg96]

Interesting perspective! I always have found textbooks to be incredibly dull and boring. Don't think I would be able to keep going if I used them a lot. Everybody has got to find what works best for them!

[@gregeaster3335]

@@GaijinGreg96 I actually dont use textbooks per say (don't own any). I just use Tokini Andy who has videos based on Genki chapters and makes it a pretty entertaining watch and he often explains it way better than the textbook. Then I read a lot of content on his site and others that is around that level. So in my case the textbook is just a logical way to go about digesting the grammar and building that up. Have you started Cure Dolly? She has videos on figuring out Kansai Ben btw. Curious on how you find her as she's very divisive, mostly because some hate her voice. Personally found her first 3-6 videos in her grammar course especially essential.

[@GaijinGreg96]

I haven't fully dived into cure dolly yet but I've watched a couple of videos and her voice doesn't annoy me at all. I could definitely see how it would bother many though XD@@gregeaster3335

[@kealist]

Generally with grammar issues when I've come across things I don't understand, if there is a translation I just sit on it until I come across it again and after a few times and it just makes sense after seeing the sentence structure after a few times. With Chinese, I've just been trying to focus on listening with anki sentences (trying not to look at the text unless I can't understand it) Definitely a lot hard. Every chinese video seems to have hard subs on it so it's hard to avoid the subs on everything ,but i think it's worth covering them up to some extent so my "listening" isn't actually reading.

[@GaijinGreg96]

I am very curious why it seems almost all of East Asian videos have hard subs on them. The concept seems almost non-existent in english.

[@coast97]

Greg - good stuff! Btw are you watching with Japanese subs or without anything? Welp, all I had to do was wait a bit longer in the video. Haha

[@chaseleck]

Hi Greg! Congrats on 1 year. I am also at just about 1 year as well! My question is do you log your passive hours as well as active?

[@GaijinGreg96]

I have a complicated back and forth in my head regarding what is passive and what isn't passive. If its like pure passive and I'm working while listening (very rare), I don't log that. If I am doing something on very hard autopilot like doing dishes, just walking, or driving I will typically log that time. While most people probably would consider that passive it those three activities in particular "feel" like something more than passive listening to me. However I don't commute to work super often currently so car time is very low. And I usually only have to do dishes once or twice a week so its not super common. most of my "passive listening" time comes on walk where all of my attention besides putting one foot in front of the other is on the content. So there's your not so short answer 😂

[@CowboyBGM]

my Anki stats under the calendar tab look like a boxers mouth. Don't beat yourself up for missing some days of anki just pick back up where you left off. MY NUMBER ONE WORD OF ADVICE: SET REALISTIC CARD LIMITS FRIENDS if you take one or two days off (as you inevitably will) it's far more likely for you to throw in the towel if you need to pick up 1000 anki card reps vs 250 5 words per deck is very manageable 10 is pushing it depending on the amount of decks you have if you set your card limits to 20 I would go ahead and just not, the exponential increase will kill your journey. you will not learn japanese faster by increasing the number of cards you see each day. aquiring the basics is your priority in the beginning. Once you have acquired the basics you don't even need anki to learn new words in daily immersion

[@GaijinGreg96]

10 new cards a day has been my "set it and forget it" amount for my main anki deck. been very manageable and can get Anki done in less than 30 minutes most days!

[@johncusatis5015]

What do you recommend for learning kanji? I study vocabulary with anki but kanji seems out of reach. How have you mainly learned it

[@GaijinGreg96]

I think if you are studying vocabulary with Anki you should be good. I don't feel like there's much benefit to studying individual Kanji characters at this point. Unless you are practicing handwriting the Kanji. However, I am not so I cannot speak to the best resources for that.

[@ben12405]

Thanks for the update! Can you read manga on a kindle ?

[@GaijinGreg96]

You can read manga on the kindle! I actually have a few downloaded on mine that I just haven't read yet. The only downside is that the popup dictionary that works for the regular books won't work for manga.

[@ben12405]

@@GaijinGreg96 aww that's too bad, it would have been perfect for me I'm still not comfortable enough to read regular books (I'm about 6 months in :D) But i'll definetely look into kindle when I feel ready. Thanks for the tip ! And good luck on the journey! 頑張りましょう～！

[@user-yv8gm5uw7x]

Do you find it frustrating how long it takes to watch/play/read things you love when you're studying content? Like having to pause so often to look up everything to fully understand it?

[@GaijinGreg96]

When I am doing intensive immersion sometimes it does get frustrating especially if I'm stuck on a particular sentence that just won't make sense. But for me personally when I am in that intensive immersion mode I think the amount of time it takes doesn't really bother me. I just kind of have accepted that I during that activity I would rather take the time to fully understand everything than get frustrated that I am missing out on the juicy story nitty gritty details. If I am in a mood where stopping and starting a ton just isn't in the cards then I will usually just do free flow immersion. Obviously the comprehension will be lower that way but still definitely important to build those real time instincts with the target language!

[@DFlaminberry]

If you like Japanese comedians and don't mind INCREDIBLY raunchy content i highly recommend Hitoshi Matsumoto's Documental. I've been watching it for a month and have really enjoyed it.

[@ozziepaul]

yo this is dope bro, does the kindle have audio books? like can it read the shi to me?

[@GaijinGreg96]

The kindle does not have audio books. The audible app (also an amazon product) could probably help out there. Though I'm not sure what the selection looks like for japanese content on the audible store, I'm sure plenty exists out there.

[@ozziepaul]

@@GaijinGreg96 ありがとう！good idea. its cool watching this video because i feel like i am at such a simalar level as you so i cant wait to see your progress in future a video! 頑張ってください！

[@MediaSafeLotus]

what would you say your listening level of comprehension(Refold) is when freeflow and watching with subs anime, drama, youtube videos?

[@GaijinGreg96]

I'm not super familiar with the refold comprehension levels but after looking into a little bit I would say that I'm at Level 3 "Gist". With subs its probably a little higher than level 3 but not really close to level 4 comprehension. However I will say that this MASSIVELY varies based on what I am watching. If I'm watching a clip from the news it often feels like I understand nothing. But when I'm watching like a travel vlog on youtube I feel like I am very close to level 4.

[@wamu5204]

18 month progress report soon?

[@GaijinGreg96]

Yup! 30 days until the 18 month update. Definitely some big stuff to share!!

[@MultiKashi1234]

ayeeee my guy how you been

[@GaijinGreg96]

I've been great, hope you are doing good as well!

[@entiretwix1480]

Refold does recommend grammar study in Stage 1, no?

[@GaijinGreg96]

I have a link in the description to refold's website. It's probably best to read their detailed roadmap to get an idea for what they recommend for grammar at stage 1 rather than having me incorrectly summarizing it in this reply. Buttttttt.... Refold tends to lean more towards grammar "priming" in the early stages of the process. Keeping one's grammar study to the very basics. Immersion will take care of the rest later on. While I don't think this is necessarily wrong. I just think more grammar study (for the purpose of making more content comprehensible and therefore accessible) would prevent a lot of the frustrations early on in the process. I'm sure many give up in frustration around this point in the process. The further the langauge gets away from one's native language the more valuable this extra grammar study probably gets (in my opinion).

[@donkeyhota.dontflamingo9294]

But Greg, how many words do you know?

[@GaijinGreg96]

I've learned 10 new Anki Vocab a day. So that puts me at about 3740 words as of today. However, I do know some more words that I've acquired from immersion that aren't in Anki. I'm probably in the ballpark of around 4000 words.

[@donkeyhota.dontflamingo9294]

@@GaijinGreg96 and are you able to understand anime with just 4000 words?!? On average, how many new words do you come across in an episode of Naruto (usually 20 minutes length)?

[@GaijinGreg96]

Yes I am able to get the main idea of what is going on through what I have currently in vocab and through context. Honestly I don't even think you need to many words to get the general idea as long as you don't select super complex/advanced immersion material. Since most of the words that I've learned so far are fairly high frequency, they really go a long way when it goes to comprehension. Don't get me wrong... Without pausing, there is still a lot I don't understand from just listening/reading the subtitles alone. But it feels like the more time I put in slowly but surely I am getting better.

[@donkeyhota.dontflamingo9294]

@@GaijinGreg96 thanks for your explanation. By the way, when you add new 'words' do you mean every single word or just root words (aka word families)? For example, let's say you come across the word 'stink' and add it to your anki deck. If later on you come across words like 'stinkS', 'stinky', 'stinking', 'stank', 'stunk', 'stinkingly' aswell, do you add them all too or just pick one of them as the representative of its word family because the rest of them can be figured out through grammar knowledge?

[@GaijinGreg96]

ummm for the most part they are all different "root" words with a few exceptions. Essentially, It doesn't include multiple conjugations of the same "word".@@donkeyhota.dontflamingo9294

[@かわかど]

Dang man good stuff, I'm starting today and this motivated me a lot (especially seeing another black person doing it lol) so keep up the gains and I cant wait to see the next update! do u use discord or anything by chance?

[@GaijinGreg96]

ayeee ✊🏽! I do have discord but it's really just my private one I use for gaming. This channel is the only presence I have tbh I don't even have a twitter or anything else for this channel either.