Japanese Maple Bonsai Fall Cleanup and Is It Okay to Grow Other Plants In Your Bonsai Pots?

[@fabiansaerve]

Great video. Thank you!

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Glad you liked it!

[@SultonBonsai]

Nice bonsai...

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Thank you, it's got flaws but I love it.

[@backbudbonsai]

I (unintentionally) scorch my maple leaves EVERY YEAR, it seems……. It’s a bummer but they always bounce back the yr after.

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

I think I could say the same - I get different degrees of scorching every year. This was one of the worst years for my Mikawa Yatsubusa. But at least we are giving our trees as much light as they need!

[@averyprice9422]

Make a little cloth tent.... or find shade... with a bench like yours I would take some bamboo shoots and get some Grey or White tshirt fabric and build something light and easy to move

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

@@averyprice9422 Thanks for the idea - you're actually my second viewer to suggest something like this. I'm planning to do something early next summer in the hopes of reducing the scorch I got this year.

[@n8tyler]

Excellent looking 'Mikawa Yatsubusa'...Wow, that's a mouthful...How time flies, Neh? What a wonderful silhouette...I use small pebbles or stones against the base as an accent with the benefit of keeping the moss from contacting the trunk which in turn protects the base for rotting...Great points/tips...thanks for sharing...

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Thanks. Ha, yeah, "Mikawa Yatsubusa" is quite a few syllables - I've said it so many times now though that I'm getting pretty good at it (now that I've said that I'm going to fumble saying it in my next video). Neat idea about putting the rocks against the trunk. I'm also a fan of rocks in pots to give that natural "understory" look.

[@alexbrendan7181]

You got a turntable--enjoy! I just used mine to spray some lime-sulphur. That's a nice tree. I've found that Japanese Maples are single flush unless something like defoliation happens. My yard is a half zone warmer than the rest of my region and faces West, so I'm always battling scorched leaves. Personally, I like moss. I think it buffers the sun/evaporation in summer, provides some water filtration, keeps the soil in place, creates a natural habitat for upper-level roots, and looks good. In winter I replace existing moss with a thin top dressing of green moss and sphagnum, a la Ryan Neil, which increases aeration and prevents pests. Yeah, sedums have big enough roots that they compete with the tree, but fertilizing probably offsets that. In the PNW I don't have trouble growing moss, but in the SW sedums might be an alternative. I'll be getting some rose society organic cakes in Spring--my plan is to use that as a baseline and supplement with the blue stuff. We'll see how it goes!

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

The turntable is great - glad I spent the $10. Thanks for the complement - I love this tree despite its flaws. It's good to hear that I'm not the only one with single flush JMs. I get a weak second flush on my standard JM and seemed to get a second flush on my Katsura that was planted in the ground, but I guess my few JMs are pretty much single flush too. Yeah, I really do hold with what I shared in the video about moss and sounds like you agree: it seems to help make that upper stratum of soil more useful for trees, so I think its actually beneficial to have moss in many ways. I hadn't heard of the Ryan Neil "moss refresh" which you describe, but it makes a lot of sense: by fall it can be a pretty dense fluffy mat, which I often reduce back. But a full refresh is probably a good idea. I try to periodically knock my sedums back as well, but might let them go a little too much, they are definitely competing with the trees to some degree.

[@alexbrendan7181]

@@BonsaiNorthwest Yeah totally! I've been looking for the episode where Ryan Neil puts top dressing on a tree but can't find it. It's a large conifer (I think) with a very thick nebari, and he spends a bunch of time scraping the top layer of fert/moss/soil around the edge, then talks about grinding green/sphagnum moss through a screen. I think it's one of the fall/winter prep episodes, but I'm not sure anymore. Anyway, I tried it this year and it creates a really nice, fine layer of new moss after a month or so. Really controllable and aesthetically pleasing. Of course, living in the Portland area, moss is easy.

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

@alexbrendan7181 Thanks for the details about the moss treatment, I might try it out. I remember Milton of Bonsai Heirloom describing a similar process of putting ground up moss on as a top layer.

[@Lees_Trees]

The original reason the Japanese would moss they're bonsai is that it covered the dirt in the pot when bringing inside, they don't want to "bring dirt into the house". That carried over into the shows.

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Interesting! Thanks for the bonsai history. And now it's carried over to many hobbyists like me, who don't show their trees, but like the moss aesthetic, maybe because it can give trees a greater sense of age or being established.

[@Bonsai_Noob]

The carpet of moss, creates the perfect environment for that moss to grow and for pests to breed. I does look pretty. Personally I don't let weeds grow in my pots if I can help it. Anything else growing in there steals nutrients.

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Yes, I've heard the same about moss providing habitat for pests - any other info on what kinds of pests these are? Thanks for your comment.

[@cmdrvitsurugi8960]

Moss is completely fine, it actually promotes the formation of roots in the top 3rd of soil, because the top third would dry out too fast if bare, and moss will not leech nutrients the same way other ground covers do, also if you have bark you want to keep, paint with vinegar to kill moss on the trunk, otherwise the added moisture will promote rotting in the bark. about the vigor, think it's due a repotting. btw irish moss is not a true moss and will leech nutrients. nice maple!

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Thanks for the complement and thanks for your comment. Yep, I agree, moss is good for maintaining the moisture/temp in that upper soil stratum. So I did remember correctly - it is vinegar that folks use - thanks for the confirmation. I just repotted this JM in the spring of 2024 into this somewhat oversized and deep pot, so I don't think a repot is needed yet. But who knows. My theory is that a decade in a bonsai pot has reduced it's vigor; I'm considering putting it in an even larger oversized pot for the next repotting cycle (maybe in a couple years), so it is less restricted. Yep, I can confirm firsthand that Irish moss is far from being a tree moss - it's got some pretty aggressive roots and can form a really dense impenetrable mat if not controlled. I'm not surprised that I've heard so many warnings about it in bonsai pots.

[@cmdrvitsurugi8960]

​ @BonsaiNorthwest if you repotted and did not see an immediate return to vigor, something else is going on. I have never worked with mikawa yatsabusa, I'm purely going off of your observation that it is not as vigorous as what you experienced earlier from the tree. I don't know if an even larger pot would make a difference...do you use bark in your soil mix? I know bark leeches nitrogen in it's process of composting/breaking down, or Might just be a quirk of the variety(it is a dwarf variety), maybe someone else with solid experience with this variety can help you find out what is going on. the picture you showed of it earlier with the tips burnt, does not make me think it is unhealthy at all, despite the burnt tips. I know some dwarfs genetically slow down after they reach a certain size(shojo hime comes to mind). all the best!

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

@@cmdrvitsurugi8960 Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I use undecomposed bark in my mix, which is likely taking up some of that nitrogen. It hasn't reduced too much in vigor since I first got it a decade ago, and it still puts out a good 6-8 sets of leaves each spring. So I'd consider it in fine/decent health, but wonder if I might do more for it's health...I'm not overly concerned. I suspect that it's just entered 'middle age' as a bonsai; I've read that older bonsai start to slow down with age. But I don't know, I really don't have an personal experience with trees that have been in training >10 years.

[@cmdrvitsurugi8960]

@@BonsaiNorthwest sounds like dwarf behavior to me. 6-8 sets per branch means it's quite healthy. I have learnt to take development slow on my slower growing varieties. I have maples that has been in bonsai cultivation for 15+ years, my experience is that if you treat it like a tree in development i.e. repot it every 2 years and work the roots really hard, fertilize from the onset of spring and leave them to grow quite a bit before you cut back in hard...they keep behaving like a young vigorous tree. If you treat them like a refined tree i.e. less frequent repottings, only fertilize from late summer/early autumn and only do very light autumn pruning to thin forks to two and remove unwanted downward and inward growing twigs they slow down a lot. but this is for stock standard acer palmatum. Varieties can act completely different, with varieties it's really about assessing it's quirks and treating it accordingly. I do not defoliate or pinch my dwarfs, just because I feel like they already have small leaves and tight internodes. No need to. I'm jealous of the weather zone you are in though, I'm from South Africa and because I love all the temperate weather species used for bonsai, I really have to be on top of my care. I cannot place a maple in full sun, they will be baked to a crisp fairly quickly(have lost quite a bit of maples when I started out and kept away from them for a long time), I have to use heavy shade netting and cool them down twice a day to get them healthy and vigorous enough to be able to apply bonsai techniques to them. Enjoy the ride man! Bonsai is such a wonderful hobby

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

@cmdrvitsurugi8960 Thanks for the sharing your knowledge and the detailed explanation! I'll keep that in mind about repotting frequency/pruning/fertilizer, very interesting. Yeah, there's absolutely no need to do any pinching on this dwarf variety. Wow, growing JM in South Africa! I of course understand the fascination with the species and why you go through the trouble. Thanks again for the comment and happy growing.

[@dkstott29]

I have trouble keeping moss alive,, so I use sedum and some small succulents on the soil.

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

You aren't the only one, I hear that a lot and have had the same problem. Much of my moss goes semi-dormant and brownish during the hottest parts of summer. But it perks right up quickly as weather cools. When I made the switch to rainwater from my city water, I feel like it helped my moss do better - now it stays at least semi green even during extreme hot/dormancy. But my climate is pretty conducive to moss. For folks in hotter/drier climates than mine, keeping moss looking good might be a continual battle.

[@dkstott29]

@BonsaiNorthwest I've recently learned about preserved reindeer moss. It comes in a lot of weird colors. But green is great, it doesn't need watering, pruning because it's preserved. I kinda like it.

[@thelazybonsai]

How much fert are you feeding it?

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

I fertilize using the unsophicated Dan Robinson/Nigel Saunders method (as I understand it): I put a low dose of Miracle-Gro in my watering can about every other day that I water, from maybe May-Oct. Next growing season I'm considering supplementing this with some kind of organic fertilizer for trees that I want to put a lot of growth on. For this JM, I don't know - I consider it too be in the refinement stage and don't want to encourage long internodes, so I might just keep going with my basic fertilizing method - I'm not trying for lots of growth. But I do of course want the tree to be healthy.

[@thelazybonsai]

We’re on the same page. I’ve been afraid of using too much dissolvable syn fert. I used organic fert this year, not sure i know that it did anything. We’re using soilless mixes, I don’t think organic fert is really geared for that. I think I’m going to try a little more syn fert dosing next year…

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

@@thelazybonsai Thanks for the info, maybe I won't bother with organic. I know the pros use organic, hence why I'm considering it. But as with bonsai soil, I think there a likely a lot of good fertilization "recipes" that can work.

[@thelazybonsai]

I think there are a lot of “age old” processes that can be updated for modern applications. How much nitro is immediately available in the organic fert would be my question. But also, if it aint broke, dont fix it, :) you’ve got 10yrs on that maple, your process is obviously working

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

@@thelazybonsai Amen, I am a follower of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. It has admittedly been a rocky ten years for this maple, including the scorched leaves this summer. So I definitely don't have everything figured out. But this maple remains, despite my ineptitude, another reason I love it. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@percyacutt3110]

Your tree is already being starved from nutrients etc when planted in a ceramic pot anything else left to grow in the same environment will further deprive the tree, decide for yourself,if you want to garden then make a bed in the ground your bonsai pot is not the place for it, keep up your good channel

[@BonsaiNorthwest]

Yes, I agree that other plants (not moss so much) compete with the bonsai. So if one wants the best, optimal growth on their bonsai, best to keep it free of competing plants. At the same time, I've been inspired by work of Walter Pall, Dan Robinson, penjing in general, where I see other plants (often succulents) planted with bonsai. I like the aesthetic. As with many things, moderation is good - you certainly want to ensure your bonsai is getting sufficient water and nutrients. So an overabundance of other plants/weeds in your pots isn't great (a couple of my pots fit in this category), but an additional nonagressive plant isn't going to cause great harm IMO (especially if your bonsai is in an oversized pot like many of mine are). Watching the bonsai is maybe the best indicator - if one isn't getting the kind of growth they want/expect and there are are lot of weeds/other plants, then certianly get rid of those weeds.