Japanese Milk Bread - Shokupan with 20% Whole-Wheat Tangzhong and Honey

[@NovitaListyani]

Errata: Big thanks to @paninobakery The baker's percentage of water in the recipe should be17.3% not 22.7%

[@stefanniemoh]

Haha, love this! The bakery I work in actually uses 20 to 25% yudane in all our whole wheat and multigrain breads, as well as honey for some of them, and our results are similar to this, with breads staying soft for days.

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad to hear confirmational comments, thanks!

[@restugw9804]

Selamat siang kak terimakasih aharing nya

[@arrywibisono6792]

first time i knew honey effect .. thank you miss

[@giselsilva]

Love the bread, love the rooster and all your animals in the background! 😃Thank you, I'm gonna try this bread for sure!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks !

[@teriwise1009]

Very nice video. I enjoyed the explanation at the beginning. Thank you.

[@ARiversEdge]

Love your videos! Great production value

[@profe2762]

Thank you very much for this video! This is what I was looking for…and of course, you came through again and answered my questions!! Very much appreciated 🙏🙏👍

[@ej8240]

Love the presentation, recipe, explanations, and instructions.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for watching and commenting! 🙏

[@drewb.9497]

your videos are super helpful!! Seriously, ty I would never have started using tangzhong in my bread & once Im able to finally make a good baguette using it ill move on to a whole wheat sandwich bread like this!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you 🙏

[@windmeza]

Okay, I made this recipe but adjusted it to be sourdough. DELICIOUS!!! OMG-amazing. The rise on it sucked so I assume my starter wasn't mature enough. I'll keep working on it. But an inspiring beginning.

[@bakeforfun-ii9yw]

I am new to your channel. Love the content and the presentation.

[@eilenepatrick9319]

I planned on trying tangzhong with wheat flour to see if it would work, and you have done the experimenting for me. Thanks.

[@mrprutten]

"Let's not make a butterfly." Hahaha. Seraphine, you are awesome. Thanks for the great recipe and tips. I love whole wheat bread and will be making this tonight, finishing in the morning. 🧡

[@NovitaListyani]

You're gonna love it 😋

[@Gabe-fw2jj]

Fantastic, I've already been playing with whole wheat yudane thanks to your videos and now I can have an even better understanding of them

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks 🙏

[@windmeza]

Looks great! I plan on trying this next week but I’d prefer to use sourdough. Any recommendations on converting instant yeast to sourdough?

[@NovitaListyani]

Check this out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKHGnqikl8ZsraM

[@saramazd]

Love your work~

[@pachin253]

A well-balanced and nutritious bread. Moreover, it is irresistible with honey. I wanna eat!👏

[@NovitaListyani]

Yes you can :)

[@kristofferchandra3215]

Hi Seraphine, firstly, super helpful vid btw, and um may i know why dont u use egg for this recipe? Thanks!

[@rjross100]

Good day Seraphine, you directed me to this post a couple of days ago in regards to me mentioning fresh milled flour. I’m going to try this recipe today as written to its potential but was curious what other steps I would need to take in adjusting this recipe for 100% fresh milled flour as this is my goal to only use 100% fresh milled unsifted flour.

[@geraldfriesen5600]

I second that, hoping Seraphine gets into milling her own wheat :) After milling my own, I find commercial whole wheat flour annoying with it's large bran particles. My Mockmill does a much better job with a smoother, finer consistency even with 100 % extraction flour.

[@Sugarlydeliciousness]

I am glad I found your channel. This is not a 100% Whole Wheat Flour recipe. Why? Because it contains 75% white flour and only 25% whole-wheat.” I would not want to see those who are prediabetic or diabetics using this recipe thinking it is 100% whole wheat bread. I would like to see you make a 100% Wheat Flour recipe. Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge on bread making using Tangzhong method. I subscribed to your channel.

[@khodayehrangekaman315]

Hello Madame bravo 👌🙏 🥰 💖 🌷🌹 You are absolutely amazing Chef , for real . Can we use white flour instead of wheat flour ? Thank you for your responce 🙏

[@paninobakery]

hi Novita , please correct me , could you double check the hydration percentage (Boiling water = 150 g which is 40 % , Milk = 70 g which is 18.7 And Finally water= 65 g which is 17.3 % not 22.7 %) thank you so much .....really it was amazing , fluffy and soft

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you! You are right, it should be 17.3%.

[@paninobakery]

@@NovitaListyani ...thank you so much for replying & your clearance i'm focusing now to make excel sheet with your wonderful recipe i hope you can help me to sharing information

[@NovitaListyani]

Sure, happy to help :)

[@regieryanto2183]

Hi, thanks for the recipe! I wanna know if the milk can be substitute by water And the amount is the same with the milk? Thank you

[@NovitaListyani]

Yes, you can substitute the milk with water, but the amount would be different. Milk is 87% water, so to get the same total hydration for the dough, you should multiply the amount of milk by 87% to get the amount of water you need to add.

[@saramazd]

Thanks!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you!

[@Shelby-48]

🤩🤩🤩 trop beau ce pain 🙏🙏 J ai le même moule mais il a le double de longueur, dois je tout simplement doubler toutes les quantités que vous avez utilisé dans cette recette ci ???

[@nathanchan219]

Do you think there would be any benefits to adding a polish preferment to wholewheat?

[@agnesbabalola3757]

Thank you so much for your videos. Please I need your help with using yudane/ tangzhong method for commercial bread baking.

[@JeffO-]

I like to use 2/3 whole wheat (from hard white wheat flour) and 1/3 white. The Yudane is all whole wheat. Works great. I've been experimenting with oil, butter, egg and will do honey next. Oil made it somewhat spongy, so I like butter. Egg made it rise a little more which is good with whole wheat. I hear the chickens. Do you ever use an egg in bread?

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the info. We do use eggs from time to time, here is one for example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5WyeaCaibmmaJY

[@sjc9832]

Thanks for the recipe! I was really happy with my first attempt. The only downside was that the loaf lost height after coming out of the oven, leaving a band of dense crumb at the top. Any ideas why this might have happened?

[@NovitaListyani]

It may have to do overproofing.

[@chopsddy3]

Thanks! Whole wheat tangzhong.? Wow! My new covered loaf pans are on the way. Looking forward to trying this. 🕊🌹🕊 BTW….. who is working the camera? Give them 👍 for me. If it’s your mom, here is another🕊🌹🕊. These videos are wonderfully informative and useful.

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the comment. Happy baking. Camera works on home baking can be quite challenging, glad you like, we take turn taking footages.

[@kuriputful]

Thanks for the recipe, Lishe. Curious what size of pan you used. I have a 13x4x4 and I suspect I have to make 150% of the recipe. Any advice is appreciated!

[@NovitaListyani]

At 2:50, there is information at the top about the pan we used: ext. 21x11x12 cm3 or int. 19.5x10x10.8 cm3. If you are using 13x4x4 in3 ( 33x10x10), you may need 160-170% of the recipe.

[@kuriputful]

@@NovitaListyani Thank you!

[@kuriputful]

@@NovitaListyani Would you suggest changing the bake temp and time?

[@NovitaListyani]

The difference between the loaf pan you use and ours is in the length, so, I don't think there's a need to change the temperature but then again each oven is different, you may need to adjust the oven's settings a bit to get the optimal results.

[@user-jo7xx1lu1e]

Would any part of this be helped/harmed by a long ferment in the fridge as well? I’m interested in combining tangzhong/yudane with long ferment but not sure whether to leave the gelatinized starch separate for it or combine all (once cooled) and then let it sit in the fridge for 1-2 days… any help is much appreciated!

[@NovitaListyani]

Long fermentation can work with Tangzhong/Yudane. Besides the damaged starch being broken down into smaller sugars for the yeast to feed on, heating the flour in excess water also produces denatured protein with peptides and amino acids. So over all you have more foods for the enzymes in the flour and the yeast to work with.

[@cw4544]

Hi, Thank you for this recipie. I have a question while i'm making right now. I don't know why my thanzhong is very fluid, it doesn't even close to yours that look sticky. I hope it's not water 75 g and wholewheat 150 g. So, i tried water 75 g (add more) and wholewheat 150 it came out like yours. tangzhong

[@NovitaListyani]

You need to make sure you are using boiling hot water. If the water is not hot enough, not much gelatinization takes place, the mixture can not absorb that much water, it might turn into more of a slurry instead.

[@cw4544]

@@NovitaListyani i really use boiling hot water.

[@NovitaListyani]

Gelatinization will not happen without excess water, for white flour it needs at least a 1:1 flour to water ratio. For wholewheat, a 1:2 flour to water is better. To put it simply, prepare flour to boiling water, in 1:2. Make sure the water temperature doesn't drop drastically when you use it, drop the flour into the boiling water (not the other way around), and then mix immediately. Gelatinization should take place practically immediately, it should look sticky and be difficult to mix. After a few minutes, you should have what we had in the video. As an explaination, if starch gelatinization doesn't happen, you have a more liquid like mixture because the starch is still intact. If you are not familiar with tangzhong/yudane, you may want to watch our other videos on the subject.

[@cw4544]

@@NovitaListyani Can i boil it all again?

[@NovitaListyani]

I recommend making a fresh batch for best results.

[@saramazd]

What is the name of the music in the beginning?

[@EmadFayek16]

@Novita Listyani ..hope all is well. I noticed you used 20% yudane and around 17% poolish . If I will use both of them to make our culture specific bread (which consist of flour, water and yeast only) do you recommend to follow this %s of each ? Or if I use 20% yudane I should consider 20% poolish ?

[@NovitaListyani]

Every bread is different, without knowing the specifics of the bread you are going to bake, it's hard to answer your question.

[@EmadFayek16]

@@NovitaListyani in our culture we make bread consist of flour, water and yeast only … should be rounded 6,7,8 or even 10 inches wide. fluffy from inside and no crust from outside but soft easy to cut into pieces . I am using mix of yudane 20% in addition to 10% only poolish … I was wondering if I should consider 20% of both of them ?

[@NovitaListyani]

I think you should. It seems like you are making a lean bread. Poolish will give you lots of flavor.

[@EmadFayek16]

@@NovitaListyani thx a lot …

[@pooch3289]

You’ve mentioned in an older video that you found no difference in using the tangzhong same day vs overnight up to week. Why is it highly recommended to rest overnight for this one?

[@NovitaListyani]

That video was made two years ago, and it was tested with tangzhong 1:5, if you made a tangzhong with 1:5 ratio, flour to water ratio, there's a chance you may inactivate much of the beta-amylase, with beta-amylase gone, there's no difference between using the tangzhong immediately or letting it ages overnight in the fridge. For more information on why, you may want watch our latest videos on tangzhong/yudane: The Ultimate Guide to Tangzhong: kzbin.info/www/bejne/epu0aHiqq99-ldk also our previous video on why the 1:5 Flour-Water Ratio of Tangzhong for Bread Baking is a Bad Idea: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ6pipifgd9_ptE

[@rufinalia9380]

Hello, Have you ever made youtiao/cakwe? I'm currently trying to make cakwe, but it's not turning out perfectly. Maybe I'll try something similar to your beignet recipe. Maybe its going to work

[@NovitaListyani]

Youtiao has always been an interesting subject to talk about, we did one with fruit yeast water a long time ago, thinking of doing another video on YouTiao. Beignets recipe for Youtiao may not be the right one although they're pretty similar.

[@letsdancefish2081]

Hello 👋🏻 I have a question... I don’t know if this is too obvious but... why not using bread flour for yudane and whole wheat flour for the rest of the flour?

[@NovitaListyani]

One of the reasons to make tangzhong/yudane with whole wheat is to achieve two objectives, the first is to get the gelatinized starch we find so useful and the other is to soak the whole wheat overnight to lower the phytic acid content. Additionally, by using the whole wheat for the tangzhong instead of bread flour, we can get a slightly fluffier bread because we're denaturing less of the effective gluten proteins.

[@letsdancefish2081]

@@NovitaListyani one more question, please tell me, do you think is possible to achieve shokupan bread texture using only whole wheat flour or using more % of it?

[@NovitaListyani]

We find that 20% of whole wheat already significantly alters the texture, it is significantly coarser than a regular shokupan, albeit being still very acceptable. To add more might make the bread a lot denser and harder in texture, which is why we stuck to 20% in this recipe.

[@letsdancefish2081]

@@NovitaListyani thank you so much for taking the time to answer me 🙇🏻‍♀️

[@vz3333]

Can you make a regular loaf or a boule out of this bread?

[@twnori]

Curious, how come we didn't incorporate poolish in this recipe?

[@NovitaListyani]

This video was made based on our previous video on Shoukupan. In that video, the focus is on the ideal amount of each ingredient used in the recipe; to simplify thing, we did not use poolish. Of course you can adjust the recipe with poolish from our video on the ultimate asian bread to make this one.

[@compartilhandocomhermanohe5756]

como é difícil quando não sabe nada de matemática .