Helix Stock Cabs vs. Impulse Responses | REALITY: THIS NEEDS TO BE SAID! (with BLIND TEST!)

[@NickHillMakesMusic]

This debate is so funny. I hear about it so often. I myself jumped right into IR's but have since fallen in love with stock cabs. They can be so versatile. There is no right and wrong here. Wonderful video Jason!

[@JasonSadites]

Thanks Nick :-)

[@howardmerkley2245]

@@JasonSadites There's a stock plugin in Cubase Pro called "Voxengo Curve EQ" that does this same thing [a bit clunkier to use]. I had a heck of a time trying to emulate Leslie West's early Sunn Colosseum PA head tone [Mountain Climbing album] and this method got the overall sound close. I failed miserably with the pick attack response from the amp and the actual playing. Somehow he could get "His" sound out of pretty much any gear. May he rest in peace.

[@MrEcted]

There's so much placebo effect that you really can't trust anyone, and sometimes not even yourself! Here was an eye opener for me: I was convinced that UAD's Pultec EQ plugin was the best Pultec EQ style plugin and I thought I would hear the differences when I would compare against the Waves version as well as Logic's stock Pultec clone. I would use all the same type of phrases you hear everyone else use, like "a bit warmer", "has real analog character", "sounds more vintage", etc etc. That was, until my buddy I collaborate with and I did a little blind test. My buddy ran the same mix through these plugins and tested me, and without actually seeing the plugins it was incredibly hard to tell the difference, especially in a full mix (though we did test individual tracks as well). Suddenly without seeing it, all the nuances with the UAD plugin I thought I heard faded and it was really just blind guessing. I picked the one I thought sounded best and in the end it turned out that overall I picked Logic's stock plugin more than the others! My guesses were still within the realm of just random guesses, so really it could have gone any way. We have done other blind tests since and what it has shown me is that I tend to bullshit myself quite often, so now these days I've completely simplified my mixes and stopped spending a bunch of money on shit that really doesn't make a discernible difference!

[@kidsaloneband]

Game. Set. Match. Once you applied the EQ (make sure you watch that far folks!) they were COMPLETELY indistinguishable. No fuss, no 1,000s of IRs to sort through, and as you demonstrated, more tweaking options available on the stock cabs.

[@ragnadrabinowitz7629]

thank god, you did this video. now i can just make music instead of suffering option paralysis wondering what IR will make my incredible song a hit. also, your information on how to make your guitar sit in a mix is so right on.

[@c.g.vonhagenstein7576]

"Option Paralysis" - the struggle is real. Sometimes we just gotta stop fiddling and play our guitars eh?

[@gilbertduenas6031]

I’ve been using the stock cabs mostly but one big benefit I’ve noticed using irs is that you can change the ir you are using per snapshot. So if you have a clean and dirty sound using two different amps you don’t need two cab blocks. You can use the one impulse response black to change between cab sounds

[@400_billion_suns]

Ah, that's an interesting one that I wasn't aware of. Nice tip.

[@adrianscarlett]

I mostly use the volume pot on my guitar to clean up a preset, maybe add a volume pedal stomp if I need more volume, or a snapshot with lower gain and higher channel volume

[@ac8704]

Your videos have helped me so much to be able to dial in the sound I want. You showing that an IR is just basically a detailed EQ is incredible.

[@stevensrp2music985]

So a year later and after going from a Iridium in the loop of my Stomp and then an ACS1, I’m back to using the HX Stomp for my amps and cabs as well. I love using impulse responses, and after a while of using the same ones through different devices I’ve found what I like. That being said, I’ve found myself with a much better understanding of what to expect out of stock cabs and how to eq them to get what I want. I feel like since we got 8 blocks, it somehow reconfigured the dsp so it would seem like we have more or something. Thanks to your videos I can now get stock cabs so close to my favorite David Hislop IRs. I appreciate all of your hard work. I’ve benefitted greatly from it and I know so many others have as well.

[@UseTheSupeRsonic]

I had the same revelation after a/b’ing the stock cabs and IRs. A good dialed in tone with the stock cabs will rival the best IRs, and probably sit in mixes better on top of that. Don’t get me started on loading IRs to the Helix-it’s easy to do, but there’s no organization to it…and anybody who uses IRs will to you that flipping through to find the right one is pretty fatiguing. Going through multiple folders of different mics to load up is just absolute madness if you ask me. No thank you! IRS are (kinda) great, but 90% of my presets are with the stock cabs. Reason being is immediate and near infinite editability. A game changer for me has been in the way I craft a tone to begin with-I start with the feel of the amp/cab I want, but when it comes to EQing the overall sound, I use good, modern drum recordings and VSTs to base my tones. So once I get something that matches the FIDELITY of that, I’m happy. 9.9 times of 10, that tone works on its own as well. Trying to dial in a tone without any reference is an effort into madness. Too much stabbing in the dark and hoping your beloved tone will work in a mix only to find it doesn’t and then you gotta go back and tweak endlessly. Again, no thanks

[@MikeBrayton]

The stock cabs suck, yea, because, you know, Line6 is literally only intellectually capable of creating EVERYTHING ELSE in the Helix to be awesome and magical. Clearly, cabinets are the one thing that is just too hard for them. That forever elusive cabinet sound.

[@peternorthedge1058]

If I was summing-up this video, it would be that you can get pretty much identical results using IR's or stock cabs - it's possible that you'll find an IR that you like but you may need to trawl through hundreds to get there and even then, it may sound great in one situation but be less than optimal in another. You may be very lucky, or get good advice and links, and get your ideal sound first time from one IR but ultimately, you'll probably be better served by putting the effort into mastering EQ as that will give you the same results using stock cabs PLUS giving you greater flexibility and will add to your FX skill-set (which is why I watch Jason's vids in the first place, even ones that don't specifically apply to my particular FX pedal - I certainly wouldn't be that interested if his vids were basically him saying "Use this IR and I'll see you next week".).

[@gregguz88]

So true. I’ve owned my Helix since it first came out. Extensively in the studio as well as live. I’m a very experienced studio engineer as well. And, to be fair, I have used an occasional 3rd party IR when I’m looking for something unique I can’t dial in on the stock cabs (Celestion if you must know). Other than those rare instances the stock cabs are superb. Much more flexibility in tweaking and pretty much work amazingly in all circumstances.

[@CDAW_45]

Do you answer questions regarding the helix?

[@SteveSterlacci]

So needed ! Lol i gave up on IRs once I learned to use the stock cabs

[@TVoltG]

Me too

[@JasonSadites]

Yeah I figured it was about time to talk about this...

[@MonkeyLaughing101]

Yes, totally agree you can create almost any tone with great EQ. However, few people have the ears and the time. The problem is that the Helix cabs don't sound great straight away and you really need either double cabs or EQ to get them sounding great. IRs are quicker and you can get back more playing time.

[@TheDruphis]

Yes. It took a plug-in included in a $499US bundled Ozone package to show you can get anything to sound like anything to say Line 6 cabs are as good as IRs. So you either need to be a wizard at eq to get the Line 6 cabs to sound how you want them or go through a bunch of IRs. Long story short... if you don’t know the sound you are after and how to get it, it will be a long haul finding it. Whether you’re fiddling with EQ mindlessly or flipping a bazillion IRs. The biggest trick to audio isn’t knowing what sound you want but knowing how to GET the sound you want. That takes a lot of experience, which Jason has a lot of and knows how to get it.

[@MonkeyLaughing101]

@@TheDruphis Yeah, I don't know who these people are that test every IR. Normally you know roughly what you want and buy/select from eight at most. You then quickly build a small library of favourites. My ears get confused trying to shape the Helix cabs with mic, distance, dual cab and EQ to think about. Too much. I just want to select from a few good choices. Also, IRs are cheap. I've spent less than $200 on 3 Sigma and Ownhammer IRs. I would never buy Celestion because they sound too similar to the existing Helix cabs. I think some people get turned off because they're buying the wrong IRs.

[@davethielet5158]

Spend time sifting through IRs is the same time you’d spend doing the eq. 6 to one, half dozen to another

[@babalaughing]

Agree there is no magic in impulse responses-- that's what the stock cabs are, too. But what I'd like to see is for you to dial the stock cab in by ear to match the Ownhammer using only the EQs and parameters available in the Helix. Your point is well taken, though-- IRs don't guarantee great tone any more than the stock cabs prevent it from happening.

[@jerryreff1857]

Spot ON brother! I would love for Line 6 to be able to add mic placement control to the stock cab adjustments. Actually at the risk of opening up a can of worms, I purport that in reality the "profiling" pedals are actually also modelers. Yes they are capturing the characteristics of a given amplifiers, but it is NOT the actual amp. It is a snapshot of the amp which in theory is also modeling.

[@micuronium]

I use both. I actually got a GB25/T75 mix to sound so close to a Creamback IR I have that I have to look down to tell sometimes. The stock cabs don’t give you good tones, rather they give you the tools to make great tones. Just like the rest of the Helix. I look at the Helix, stock cabs and all, as a musical LEGO set that allows me to build my dream amps, based on amps that are already out there.

[@picksalot1]

No idea on the blind test source. I've avoided using any IR's so I had to learn how to use the stock Amps and Cabs in the HX Stomp. I'm glad I did that. As As I've mentioned in several other posts, I wish there was a "Match EQ" functionality within HX Edit to streamline matching my guitar/gear to a particular guitar sound sample. Thanks

[@JimmyD718]

I agree 100%. Going down the IR rabbit hole isn't where I want to be. I've got enough, and they're still overwhelming. Thanks Jason!

[@love4thetruth]

One feature that IR's have on the Helix that the stock cabs don't have is the Mix option. I really like that feature. With the stock cabs it just has level, which turns everything down. But with the mix you can adjust it and not lower it all.

[@scb1620]

The stock cabs are fine. However, I use IR's because you can switch them using snapshots. It's great being able to use a different IR for your lead tone, to that of your rhythm tone.

[@notmyname4261]

Snapshots work with cabs as well, and the use far less DSP

[@Zedacuequinha]

@@notmyname4261 they use about the same amount ..and to use Different cabs in different snapshots you have to load different instances of the cab block limited to 2 per path. With ir you can do in a single block, saving a lot of dsp and the only limit Being the Number of snapshots.

[@roccanto86]

I hope someday Line 6 make possible to even change the amp model per snapshot, that is the only feature I miss of my Headrush Gigboard, litteraly if I had a 4 scene preset, I was able to use up to 16 different amp models in the same rig (maybe this in unnecessary but it was truly posiblle with the HR)

[@El_Maycol]

they were so close but on the comparison I could hear a little difference maybe it's just me, I've always said it all comes down to settings, you nailed it, ppl are too lazy to go change them and defaulting to IRs for ease of use, just take the time to dial the thing and you can mud the hell out of a fractal or add as much clarity as you need in the helix... as for the blind test i think it is the helix with the Eq applied

[@jonhayesofficial]

insane how indistinguishable they are thanks jason!

[@stonelark]

The stock cabs are easy to select between microphones, distance, high and low cut. With IRs you are usually faced with a manufacturers long, long list of those choices, making it difficult to select and audition between them. Reading through these comments show that the audible differences are minimal. For me, when considering ease of use vs sound, the stock cabs are a clear winner.

[@daydayhungryyy]

You proved your point. And I always believe the mojo always related to EQ, however, there are no eq in the helix offer that kind of tweakability. That’s why people just load IRS

[@SethDStanley]

I dove deep into IRs for a while and drank the koolaid that they were better. One day was tired of not liking my tone, loaded up stock cabs, and found everything I was looking for. Stock cabs are fantastic! Thanks for the great comparison!

[@ericlarkins]

The part is great, played great, tracked great - that's the most important thing. The one that sounds best is the one that sits in the mix best, which could be a different choice than which one is your favorite when isolated.

[@giovannitommasi4140]

Never been satisfied using the stock cabs. Yes you can use eq to make them sound closer to an ir you like, because of course irs are just a static eq curve. But if you don’t have to share the preset, I don’t see the point. That said, i totally agree that stock cabs in the helix are not trash, and do not sound “bad”. It’s a matter of preferences. One thing I’ve noticed though, usually you really need at least to cut some low mids and boost some highs, because they sound to me as if there is no impedance curve going on, neither in the amps nor in the cabs. This is true on most modelers anyway

[@patrickmckiernan2742]

I ditched all my IRs and started using stock cabs before I even saw this video. The reason that I got here was I did a search to see whether or not a Helix cabinet was actually an IR. Anyway, the reason that I like the stock cabs best is because I can visualize replacing a microphone and/or moving that microphone with respect to its position on the speaker. In the end, my result has been brilliant sounds.

[@jdiesel9048]

Excellent video! I went from not knowing what an IR is, to understanding how they work in comparison to a cab! Thank you!

[@dkijc]

that small amount you adjusted around 650 was golden... thanks for that mate!

[@michael.folsom]

I use the stock cabs for elec. guitar tones because I'm lazy and don't want to organize umptysquat IR's into folders and audition them forever. However, I DO use IR's for acoustic patches. For the blind test, I will guess #3 (1x12 IR). That's a complete WAG, no particular reason.

[@Triumphinchrist1]

Much needed discussion. If L6 get into making their own irs it would solve the confusion!

[@trentreimer130]

And thanks for the low / high shelf tip. I'll definitely try that. Have been pleased with how much cabs and IRs can be focused by adjusting their low and high cut parameters.

[@sonidojamon]

14:06 is the key moment in this experiment. Very well matched!. But when playing live is not an option...

[@JasonSadites]

What isn't and option?

[@robertfalconer5054]

Great Jason, I sometimes post Presets sometimes too. You can't upload a Preset to Customtone with IR's attached, As they revert to Stock Cabs. So you can't get the same sound. I make presets in a Worship Scenario. 2 Amps in Stereo , Found the Stocks Cabs - Sterile. I use , David Hislop IR's and Ownhammer IR's and it brought my Patches to life. I am mainly using this in a Edge of Breakup and Clean environment, I make patches for clarity so, i can use Delays , Relays ,etc without Mush.. I agree with attaching EQ in the Studio, i have the IZOTOPE as well, They make Excellent Plug ins..

[@1977JAJJR]

This was the first honest response to IRs. I was contemplating buying some, but not now!!!

[@abo3006]

You could take from this it doesn't matter what cab you take or what IR with the right EQ skills you can get whatever you want . Only reason to pick a more suited cab for your needs is you will just get what you want quicker I guess ?? My guess for the blind test is 3 but that's based on me thinking you would take the least likely option on paper and use it to emphasise your point lol

[@gyorgyg.7780]

I agree, with the right EQ we can mimic any cab or/IR. Why we have as many cabs? One generic cab and a tons of EQ could do the job! I could continue this thoughts; why do we have as many amps, pedals ....

[@Admiral_Bongo]

I was really pleasantly surprised how good the stock impulses in Helix were when I first tried them out. Line 6 showed that they can make more than just crappy Spider combos and the massively outdated Pod floor units. And they priced the plugin fairly.

[@franciscomartin4381]

Jason, You are genius guitarist, sound engineer and communicator, my dear. ENORMOUS VID!! Thank you, so much. 👍😄

[@TonyClarkGuitar]

I have changed all of my patches back to stock cabs and couldn’t be happier.

[@ericcarpenter3263]

That’s crazy, I can not tell a difference at all. And you are totally right on, in a mix, I don’t think anyone could tell. I don’t have an ear like Eric Johnson. That could probably help, in a long, difficult way to match sounds on specific recordings, if you could get an isolated guitar track. That EQ plug-in is super sweet as well. Great, great video.

[@CIPHER7968]

Long time Lurker here, Jason. Excellent point well made.. as usual.

[@alasdairgeorge8568]

Thanks for this, Jason. Over time, I've gone back and forth between stock and IRs, having spent a fair amount of money buying IRs from the likes of Celestion, Ownhammer, Vox etc. I figured that, particularly with Celestion, there's no way Line 6 could do things better than a company which has actually been making speakers for decades. But, if I buy an IR, then on just the one cab, I'm faced with choosing which of the 4 to 8 mics / mic combinations to go for, which tone/placement variation to go for; then I need to choose which of those squillions of variants to load into the Helix and then rename the files so I can actually find them when building a preset. The very option paralysis which until recently was putting me off Helix itself was just compounded. Going back to stocks, there's still the same amount of choice, but it's much easier to select the combination you're looking for (whether the combination you're looking for produces the tone your looking for is, of course, a whole different thing). So for now at least, I'm going back to Helix stock cabs to really see what they can do for me. I don't rule out reverting to IRs now and again, but it seems to me to take just too much time to find THE one. On the blind test, I can only assume that you're trying to prove the point that, with the right EQ, Helix stock can sound just the same as a top quality IR - so, I vote Helix stock.

[@DerekMarshall]

agree, zero difference in a full mix! ... I like the IR's to short-cut the process of finding the right sound; so I'm glad the Helix supports them but the stock stuff is great 100%

[@dvscool]

Perhaps I need to have another look at stock cabs. Its not that I hated them, I've just always loved my tones with IR's. But it certainly does make the process easier.

[@christianboddum8783]

Adding an Eq. block after the stock cabinets makes a world of difference to make them compete with IR's ;-) Even after IRs is a great option ;-)

[@emuemu8428]

My helix LT arrives today! Tyvm for all your content!

[@JasonSadites]

Congrats and my pleasure :-)

[@WDeranged]

I was sceptical. But I'm convinced.

[@fisch723]

Totally agree. I’ve used some of the well known IRs and once in a while they’re better but for the most part not worth the bother. The only exception may be the acoustic IRs but I haven’t yet explored the acoustic filter yet.

[@aaronwalakay]

Maybe my pod go is broken but the stock cabs are very quiet and the irs are just as quiet but come -20db and have to turn them to 0

[@waynejames2014]

Thanks for a great video Jason. I have a few favourite IRS that simplify life because I can just apply them to most amps models to achieve the tone I want without messing with EQ. Saying which, I had to buy a lot of IRS to find the unicorn!

[@chefgaryklein7551]

Jason, this was an outstanding video. I use some of the same setting as you and also some of the same cabs. But with different presets, for me, some IR's work well. You are the helix man.

[@mrbas5150]

I use both, the stock cabs are great. And my IR's are awesome.

[@chriswilliams4866]

Another very interesting video. It is my opinion that the answer is to use what works for you. I've struggled to get a sound I like using stock cabs but very quickly got what I needed using IRs. Does that mean stock cabs are useless and IRs are the only answer? No. It's just what worked for me. I'm sure there will be a time when I'll use a stock cab(s) and it will sound fantastic.

[@matthewmuklewicz4348]

Great video as always, As a bass player I really only use IRs to get some more modern sounding cabs since the low end is limited. I just wish there was a way to get or purchase some more modern amps as well. The stock ones sound good for what they are and when it’s the sound I can am going for they are great.

[@miccullen]

I don't even use the Helix stuff, yet here I am - AGAIN - watching yet another video...

[@bluesky2145]

I swapped out to stock cabs for 2 1024 impulse responses and still was not able to even add a compressor so I don't feel like there is CPU usage is different enough to matter

[@TwelveSticks]

My guess is the last one - the Ownhammer 112 Fender Deluxe Reverb IR

[@louaguado995]

Didn't the early speaker cabinets on Digitech, Johnson, and line 6, just change the e.q. curve to simulate cabinets and speakers? I have an old Vox Tonelab pedal with 15 different cabinets, that pedal had no ir's, only speaker sim's, and each setting sounded so different

[@ziggybongwater7915]

helix should definitely have dynamic cab algorhthms by this point like stl and neural

[@chrisparrott5158]

To me the stock cabs sound like they have a blanket over them. Any suggestions?

[@BobPaulGuitar]

The hundreds of IRs I own will remain in it's original and unopened folder for another looooong time. Just use some acoustic guitar IRs sometimes. Great video, thanks Jason!

[@peterharvin2775]

I'll say that it was the 1-12, but I'm also going to say it's pure guesswork. And I'll also say that I agree with you in every respect.

[@jimamsden]

Very interesting and informative video. I wonder if in the reveal video you could possibly cover looking at what the match EQ did, and trying to reproduce it with 1) Helix cab block hi and low cut and/or 2) the high and low shelf EQ? I wonder how close that would make the two tracks?

[@musicmanlfp890]

Excellent comparison. EQ is so useful.

[@BlindBaileyOfficial]

wonderful test. thank you!

[@Cymbaline713]

IRs to me are a total pain in the ass. Why wade through 160 different versions of the same cab with different mics, different distances and different mixes just to find one I want when I could just throw up a stock cab?

[@nikospsarrakis]

My guess is Helix... no worries If got It wrong... :)

[@artytoney2057]

I'm confused about something on the 2 settings for irs the 1024 and 1048 I think it is How do you use those with the IRs I see them in my 1st 2 slots but I'm not sure what to do with those

[@JasonSadites]

I covered that in this video :-) kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5fbgGZrmaqIY9E

[@TheBbtlegit]

Yes indeed you are correct. The helix has plenty of stock cabs. No need for IR.

[@softspace2949]

Hi Jason, wondering if you could do a comparison with the cabinet mics, how the models and distances change the tones?

[@400_billion_suns]

Here's a short tip: for the dynamic mics, making the distance closer will add more meat, more bass, and more 'thump'. Making the distance further away will make the sound thinner, and more reminiscent of what you might expect from a room mic. A combination of a far away mic distance and a bit of early reflections can get you in the ballpark of a room mic, especially if you follow it with one of the stereo reverbs. As for the mics, they all sound a bit different, but in general, condensor mics tend to be more transparent (less mic coloration) while dynamic mics tend to color the sound more, especially from the proximity effect at close distances.

[@softspace2949]

400billionsuns great I tried it and spot on 👍😀

[@BipityBopity93]

I closed my eyes during the EQ was added and you were switching and I was waiting for the switches as they were happening. 😂 pretty crazy. Just bought a stomp and I’m trying to figure it out. I’m getting a ton of muddy low end I can’t seem to get rid of in the high gain amps.

[@michaelmilburn3094]

There's kindof a chicken/egg problem here also though - at least for many of us - we needed the ownhammer ir to generate the eq curves that were then applied to the other 2 cabs. If the ownhammer is the preferred sound, would we have ever arrived at that sound via eq alone? Some probably can, but some probably can't. just my $0.02. Nice video, thanks.

[@ThomasEmain]

Yeah, you basically are creating the same IR response in the end, but this way you can just use what's in the Go.

[@400_billion_suns]

I think the larger point Jason was trying to make here, was that there is no magic in IRs. They way they function is just as a detailed EQ curve, which is the same way the Helix stock cabs function too. Some people would rather flip through a selection of IRs to find one they prefer; some people find it just as useful to adjust the stock Helix cabs with mic distance and mic type to do the same.

[@israelr6636]

Thank you so much for this video and the information.

[@TheSavage1969]

I have no dog in this fight but the other side of the coin is that this is not much different than throwing "subpar" vocals into AutoTune. In that case would you prefer a "above par" vocal to begin with or suffice with the "subpar" vocal processed with AutoTune? This is the question to ask yourself imho. Sound is subjective, I get that. Like I said I have no dog in this fight, just pointing it out. Regards.

[@HaShemMetal]

Using a plug-in exclusive matching EQ (that you can’t use on a hardware helix product live) kinda makes the comparison clips a wasted comparison for anyone using a hardware helix family product. That said, I found stock cabs sound more “real” live than most IR’s I’ve used. like you said, IR’s are a static representation of the speaker/power amp tone and I don’t think they translate as well in a live setting. Generally they have way more low end and dipped mids than you’d get with a physical amp/mic setup live. I find IR’s more useful with the helix only in the high gain realm and more often than not in a recording/studio setting.

[@mazzorcca5491]

Great video. Blind test: I think you're using the three amps while the riff sounds but honestly I can't identify wich is wich.

[@alainakustyktak865]

Hi, What about the electroclassical guitars? better to use IRs or AMP+CAB? If so, which AMP+CAB in Helix? thanks Alain

[@JacobChoiGuitarBunker]

tooo000000oo many IRs to choose from.. and time consuming to choose the best one for my own taste. I'd rather use the stock cabs that experts chose and just play more..

[@JasonSadites]

Yes, I totally agree :-)

[@mymama12314]

Great comparison video. Could barely tell the difference with the EQs on. Surprised a DVRB 1x12 could sound so good with high gain haha. That being said, I don't you can't actually make the same EQ moves on the helix/stomp itself without multiple EQ blocks. Izotope's match EQ function generates too many EQ moves. So technically, it would be incredibly hard to make a stock cab sound this close to an IR without any 3rd party plugins (which are really expensive). Not to say stock cabs sound bad in any way. They just sound different, which might be what people like too.

[@JasonSadites]

Thanks :-) I agree as I said in this series of videos, there is no way to duplicate what Match EQ is doing within in the Helix. That was not the point, but rather that even with the eq moves that are possible in the Helix you can pretty much get anything you need from a stock cab in comparison to a 3rd party IR (which are nothing magical), not that it is necessarily even needed in most cases.

[@crsantin]

I went down the IR rabbit hole. It’s just too much. Too many to go through to find one or two that suit your patch. 10 minutes of that and ear fatigue becomes a real problem. The stock cabs sound great. I like them a lot. No more IR for me.

[@duartefaria7134]

3 usable sounds, in the context of a mix it does not matter since all will be tweacked to balance all things. The clean and clarity of the IR's are better to mix overall in my opinion, the cab is dull, need a lot more enhancement to bring it more alive. Just my opinion. But is clear how the IR of fender turn the sound fenderish, and that's why i like IR's better, for me that's technology serving the user and not the contrary. Average people do not care about tone, and their ears are limited.

[@ThePolymath1]

Is there any benefit in regards to DSP allocation to using an IR vs a Helix Cab + EQ on the Helix Floor or LT ?

[@christophersabatini]

i find the stock cabs better on my headrush than any IR i have purchased. I think IRs sound thick and buried.

[@palmfred]

Hi Jason, thanks for this video (and all the others also), very interesting and really "fact based". What do you think about putting in parallel a stock CAB and an IR (best of both world) ? I tried this on a few preset and worked quite well I think.

[@GiordanoCirillo]

Great points on the IRs and amazing channel! glad I found it 👍🏻

[@JasonSadites]

Thanks much and glad you enjoy the content :-)

[@p1verme]

It was easy in the blind test to hear it was definitely one of the three...

[@JasonSadites]

🤣 you are correct!

[@AxelTegnered]

Ok… so why would I go through the hassle of using a match eq and stock cab instead of just using an IR? Seems ridiculous.

[@JasonSadites]

Nobody said you should, it was to illustrate a point. Please watch and try to understand the video before making ignorant comments.

[@uktmaxx]

have my helix full of regularly used IR's... but will use a stock cab if i don't have anything close to what i am after.... why is it a big thing that people "admit" they can do it with a stock cab by tweaking?

[@uktmaxx]

ps i bought the Helix with stock cabs, and am happy with them generally, just tried IRs to see what the fuss was about. i do think that when i throw one on such as the latter series Ownhammer ones they do sound a little better, but not better enough that i will spend anymore money on new IR packs.

[@besprenpuds]

nice informative video jason! kudos!

[@harperj72]

Too close to call,but if I had to guess ownhammer fender 1+ 12

[@trentreimer130]

Without re-listening to each example I'll guess that's the 1x12 + eq.

[@jvlaine96]

Q.E.D Thanks Jason! As to the blind test: no idea , sorry.

[@tone5959]

I dont use IRs i have real 1972 Marshall cab with green backs in it 😊😊😊

[@ClaudioGiraud]

Can anyone tell me...What stock cabs are? IRs? a kind of "Lo-Fi IRs? or what?

[@400_billion_suns]

Only the folks at Line 6 know for sure, but the stock cabs seem to be IRs themselves (maybe a different one for each mic distance setting), while the different mics seem to just be filters (eq curves) applied on top.

[@Elassar72]

I've tried the same techniqe a lot (I really want to use stock cab to replicate a tone, not necessary an IR) but I always failed to replicate the same EQ results on the helix (fabfilter2 or izotope). It would deserve a separate video 😅

[@400_billion_suns]

Oh man. I've been involved in so many debates about this exact thing, and have repeated over and over that IRs and stock cabs are both just linear filters, with no inherent magic in IRs. I think this is one of those things where people don't exactly understand how it works (convolution isn't exactly an intuitive concept to the layperson), so they are susceptible to biased reasoning based on magical beliefs. Hilariously, I've done the exact same thing as you recently: matched stock cabs to York Audio IRs with Izotope Ozone, and they were completely indistinguishable. Thanks for cutting through the BS and opinions over and over again!

[@TheDruphis]

This is a great video to show that you can eq anything to sound like something else if you have a great plug-in to do so. Ultimately it’s subjective but I don’t think it’s an accident that it is widely thought that IRs sound better than the stock cabs. I do feel that the cab section of the Helix is a neglected area of the Helix. The cab probably the biggest influence on your tone and it’s the least paid attention to part of the Helix by Line 6. I often wonder if it is because of the existence of IRs and how many more options and better they are than the stock cabs that they choose to spend their time making other parts of the firmware second to none. Just a thought, but it is weird how neglected that part of the Helix is when there is such a huge area for innovation in this part of modelling waiting to be unearthed.

[@400_billion_suns]

@@TheDruphis I'm not disagreeing with you, but just want to clarify what I meant: some people seem to think that IRs somehow create this magical sonic transformation that works differently than the stock cabs... but nope. At the end of the day, with the way IRs are implemented in Helix and most current modelers, they essentially just become a really detailed EQ curve. There's no dynamic stuff happening at all, based on time or pick attack, etc. It's just an EQ curve. And that's all the stock cabs are at the end of the day, too, except that they let you adjust things in a way that allows me to tune in a specific sound I want. I can get a stock Helix cab sounding quite close to an IR of the same cab -- I've tried this very thing against OwnHammer and York Audio IRs, without using any matching EQs like Ozone. So, to summarize: I don't really agree that "IRs are better than stock cabs" because if you know how to adjust the stock cabs with the mic selection and mic distance, you can get them to sound many different ways and tweak them toward the sound in your head. With IRs, you have to flip through a bunch til you find one you like. It's just a different method of homing in on the sound you want, but they are *all* just detailed EQ curves, and nothing more.

[@TheDruphis]

@@400_billion_suns You could argue that moving selecting mic’s, moving them and eqing is somewhat the equivalent of going through IRs. At the end of the day, if you know the sound you want and know how to get it, you’ll get it. Pick your tool and roll with it. For me, IRs get you there quicker. An OS Mesa 4x12 with a 57 from York IR sounds better to me right away. So it’s the subjective part here that is more at play. I get the argument that Jason is trying to flatten about Helix cabs don’t suck... you can make them like any IRs... which he proved. But as I mentioned, I think in general... and some of it is parroting by people hearing this, but the Helix cabs are seen to be a bit lack luster in general. Which is fine. That also said, there are more IRs out that are way worse sounding than the Helix cab, and the immediate idea that some have that IRs, like any IR, is better than as stock cab is making a silly generalization.

[@dantredogborsa7048]

@@TheDruphis what make them lack luster?

[@atomic2012a]

The eq matching with Ozone sold me. NOW how about a tutorial to take what you learned from the match and apply it within the helix, because the Shelf EQ is not gettng me results by itself.

[@JasonSadites]

Unfortunately, that is not possible.

[@Goontone13]

The 1x12 eq'd