Helix Stock Cabs vs. Impulse Responses | RESULTS REVEAL!! Sorry, I Just Had To Do It! :-)

[@stevegardiner8473]

I've commented on this video previously but, there's something I'd like to add. I really wish Line 6 would incorporate a function in the stock cab block that allows you to move the position the mic across the face of the speaker, from cap to cone edge, much like you can with distance from cab option. Maybe an off-axis option too. I think those features would probably make me ditch ir's for good. I know these extra features would have an impact of DSP but, if you're having to use additional eq in your signal path to achieve similar results, then that's using additional DSP anyway. Another great feature would be to be able to have 2 mics on a single cab. If Line 6 could add those features, it would be a game changer.

[@SadieBoxollie]

Thank you for confirming that the impulse response is simply an EQ curve. The amazing part is folks are willing to shell out cash for something that is easily attainable with a 10 band EQ.

[@edm8bit]

Open-mindedness is an attitude that makes great music!

[@BrockDavisson]

I vote for blind test as mentioned at 7:07 mark.... Put those people in check and watch their jaws drop haha.

[@BrockDavisson]

Yeah I disagree with 8:40 mark as well. Stock cabs have been all I've used in helix for 5 yrs and many love my tone and I pretty much do a set and done within seconds and if you wanna take the time to make it "better" that is possible too with the parameters along with it etc.. etc.. but they sound great as is in most cases. I don't even use any EQ block to shape it or my amp in helix and I'm fine with that but certainly there if needed so... and yeah to me going through IR's after IR's is more time consuming.

[@BrockDavisson]

The only "IR" type stuff i like is reverb IR's aka convolutions and will collect those lol, which helix can't do and is a bummer that it can't do it (many units don't)... but those are drastically different then algorithmic reverbs. Sure a algo reverb can give you a sense of a "hall" reverb that is was modelled after but having a real sample / convolution of a real hall is just different and quite lovely....

[@spsanders69]

Half of my presets use the combo Amp/Cab and they aren't separated ;)

[@thef4lsepr0phet]

I got 127 impulses and I mix them with stock cabs, both work good if used right

[@SonnetGomes]

Thank you so much for putting out this video. With Helix 3.5, it becomes so much easier to get the tone you need out of the stock cabs; I dont really feel I am missing out on IRs anymore. IRs are great but I would rather avoid getting into the Rabbit hole. Too many options and choices. It's great, but i sometimes find it as a hindrance to productivity. Thank you once again for all you do. You have such an amazing channel.

[@LaminarSound]

Helix stock cabs are indeed impulse responses themselves. They literally are. They just include extra process in the block that Line 6 added.

[@bjarnedahlberg5361]

NOPE they are what Line6 call hybrid cabs that means they "probably and here we all guess but there is tons of dudes out there who know alot about IR's) are shot with a neutral mic put centered in front of the dust cap after that Line 6 use software calculation to change how it would sound if they change the mic to bla bla and distance to bla bla and they also added the early reflection to that. An IR IS STATIC and cant be changed just read about what IR is and you find out that after you shot the IR you cant change things in athe room like put a bookshelf or a rug in it or indeed change mic and distance on a guitar cab.

[@thibderobAKAfremen]

However, they are 512 samples, where impulses are 1024 or 2048. And, the resolution matters, at least to my ears

[@LaminarSound]

​@@bjarnedahlberg5361 I cant remember where I saw it, but I watched a video of Line 6 explaining this back 3-4 years ago. They are indeed IRs. I'm well aware of what IRs are and how they're captured. For the stock cabs, multiple IRs are captured with the mic in many different locations relative to the speaker. And all of this data is inside a single cab block for a given cab. When you change a setting(different mic/further from cone, etc...) in the cab block, your effectively recalling a different IR. And then of course you have the filters L6 added to the blocks. Point is, theyre IRs man. When you purchase and load IR's into Helix/Stomp, the IR is indeed static. Its ONE IR. So instead of giving you all these mic positions and choices inside the IR block, you have to scroll through different IRs. Same end result, different means of getting it. Point is..... stock cabs are great. IRs are great, but in my opinion take more time to find what suits you. That said, Im using IRs at the moment to free up processing power, as IR blocks use less DSP than stock cabs.

[@nekrovulpes]

@@bjarnedahlberg5361 So... They're IRs with some additional marketing guff on top? Gotcha.

[@billw577]

This video exactly proves the point I've been trying to make to a couple of my friends, about IR's in general. Thanks! IR's may be a quicker way to find "your tone" if you don't know how to adjust the tone knobs on your amp and/or guitar to get what you're looking for. But experimenting with a bunch of IR's can sometimes be just as tiring or labor intensive.

[@dale7sail]

Thanks for all your amazing work and information Jason! I use impulse responses simply for ease of use, but stock cabs, as you've demonstrated can sound just as good!

[@K1bogam1]

It'd be nice to be able to visualize how much DSP each takes

[@trentreimer130]

I really enjoyed this series. Very helpful But one point I would like to challenge is the idea that it takes longer to "scroll through hundreds of IRs" rather than to find the right stock cab + mic + distance. Just looking at my HX Stomp I see 33 stock guitar cabs (41 if you include bass), 16 microphones, and 23 distances. So I have 12,144 stock cab options to scroll through, and that's ignoring bass cabs. So even if we max out the word "hundreds" at 999, that is 11,145 fewer options to scroll through than we have in the stock cab blocks. If it takes someone 30 seconds or less to find the right IR for the patch, it's not their first time through the options. And if it take someone 30 seconds or less to select the stock cab, mic and distance plus the right low/high shelf to add the finishing touches, that is most certainly not their very first time either. An experienced stock user already knows which cabs, mics and distances they would never use. Similarly an experienced IR user may only load a handful of IRs to their Helix list. But let's be honest, Helix users are tweakers. I'm happy for the options.

[@LaminarSound]

The comments are hilarious. This is a great video Jason. I ran nothing but stock cabs for two years on HX Stomp. I had my Celestion IRs the entire time. I recently pulled them out for curiosity's sake and i like them. I like stock cabs too. lol Both can sound incredible. Use what you like.

[@TVoltG]

I have a few thousand of IR's and thank God they were given to me. I never have used them once with my Helix. No need. Just haven't gone the rabbit hole and to be honest, 99% of the time, I run my setup with real cabs, and when needed, the stock cabs have been good. Which is a testament on how good the Helix really is..

[@davidforbes72]

I think a lot of people just don't have the experience with micing up a cab and are intiminated to use and work with Helix stock cabs. I was the same first using only IRs, but now I am also using a lot the stock cabs as it is one block you can modify immense without flipping through 100 of IR files...

[@frankfrank7921]

Exactly. I've been home recording demos since the 80s and had no choice but to mic my amps and no internet to get tips so it was a LOT of trial and error so when amp modelers and ultimately my Helix came out I was mostly prepared for virtual amp mic'ing. The only adjustment I had to make was I only had SM57s and with Helix I had many more mic choices so more trial and error. To me, 3rd party IR's are mostly a pied piper affair for most.

[@jeremytabor9556]

Nailed it.

[@petedean4705]

Thanks for another really interesting video Jason. Kinda fascinating to see how people perceive things. A couple of comments from my perspective. - The Helix is a tool. It provides a pretty awesome array of elements and capabilities to enable a guitar player to get tones. (BTW, your videos on "Dialing In" were instrumental in learning how to use the Helix - thanks so much for that). - One of the features Line 6 provides is the opportunity to choose stock cabs or buy and use third party IRs. Pretty neat to have that option!! - While you can get some really sweet IRs (I have an Ownhammer bundle), sifting through dozens of IRs to find the tone you are looking for is a bit painful. And if you find one, better note the name down so you can find it again. - Working with the Helix stock cabs and monkeying around with mics, distance and EQ feels more "natural". You can "dial in" a tone that suits your needs (whether it is a satisfying tone on its own in a bedroom, or tone that sits properly in a mix with other players) with actions that are analogous to what you would do with real amps, cabs and pedals. And for me, that has always been the attraction of the Helix. It models devices you would use to get a sound; amps, pedals, cabs, and mics. When you are looking for a tone you have a "real world" paradigm to get you started. For me, IRs just don't fit into that thinking and workflow. 400billionsuns summed things up really well. You can get the tone you are looking for with the Helix with stock cabs or IRs - it just depends on what workflow works best for you. And if you can't get the tone on your own, you can always buy the Ultimate Preset pack on the Line 6 marketplace. It is pretty awesome!!

[@sheen4dean71]

Another great video. You know, I don’t get people! We’ve never been so spoilt for choice for good gear. Hx edit is fantastic. For me, the tweaking is the fun part. To know that I’ve shaped my own tone, gives me a sense of pride and ownership and what great fun along the way. I just wish I had more time.

[@nickangus3211]

Great points, well made, I went down the IR rabbit hole and dumped all the stock cabs. Found my way back again and realised all the low gain, fender style amps seem to sound better to my ears with the built in cabs. The only IR I use now is an old Marshall quad that seems to fit with my plexi sounds, but I could easily re-create it with any stock cabs and EQ. I would love some of the time back that I spend scrolling through IR's though.... Like you said though, they are just EQ curves at the end of the day, you might as well sit around and argue about tube screamer brands.

[@DoveSimon]

But, but Jason... I'd rather spend hours and hours searching for and trying out different 3rd-party IRs than a few minutes tweaking the stock CABs ;-) If you need a free match EQ, use Logic's or something like Tokyo Dawn's Nova - both great options. Match EQ is fantastic for tone matching. Even if you simply use a Match EQ as a basic reference to get your Helix EQ moves closer to what you want.

[@robertb8360]

To me, an IR is like a pedal that has no knobs, just a sonic result you like or don’t. The stock cabs are like a pedal with many knobs, so you can spin them to make sounds you like, or make awful sounds. The Helix challenge is choice or setting overload for some. Either work great or not based on what sound you want and how you manage Helix to get there.

[@stevegardiner8473]

I've used Helix (mostly live) for over four years, and spent lots of time experimenting with both stock cabs and 3rd party ir's from the likes of Ownhammer, Celestion, ML-Sound Labs, Redwirez, an 3Sigma. I've managed to get decent results from stock cabs, by using all the options available, such as dual cabs, all the different mic options and choices, additional eq etc, and while they've been ok for recording, I have to say that I've always found them either a bit lifeless, or harsh, in live use, and have never felt quite right for me in a live situation. For this reason I keep going back to using it's. However, having said that, I definitely have some ir's that seem to work well for recording, but I wouldn't use those live either. We're just very lucky that there are so many choices available, and we can all choose to use what suits us best.

[@ludlow555]

I swear that something happened with the stock cabs a few updates ago. I used to hate the stock cabs and invested a small fortune in Celestion IRs. At some point I rediscovered the stock cabs and found a way to make them work for me. I haven’t used an IR in about a year.

[@jeffreymissavage9409]

i use multiple monitoring sources with my helix... its great to be able to quickly swap from a ribbon & some mic distance in my headphones to a dynamic up close using a matrix & a 212 cab loaded with my favorite frfr speakers... stock cabs! just learn the gear people. love the vids jason keep 'em coming!!!

[@bones2532]

Thanks for reminding me how powerful the Hi-/Lowshelf EQ really is for quickly tweaking cab models AND IRs. Maybe it's about time to close this 'Stock cabs vs IRs' topic now, Jason. You cannot convince everyone out there. There'll always be those people who want to believe in 'magic', 'mojo' and unicorns. I think you made your point as clear as it can get. Actually I have my favorite IR that sounds great in most situations but tweaking the greenback 25 4x12" (one of my favorite go-to stock cabs) with an EQ can make it sound even better for me. Just takes a little time.

[@davidspingler6337]

I frequently use both, and you can get great results from either. The funny thing is, a lot of people who use IRs will STILL throw an eq in their chain anyway that totally changes the original character of the IR they’re using 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@void_snw]

Well, in mixing and mastering you'll see quite some drastic EQ on guitar parts too. All taste first and then fitting in a mix, after all.

[@LaminarSound]

The one caveat Ive found with IRs...... they use LESS processing power than stock cabs. So for someone like me, running Stomp, preserving as much extra DSP as possible is great.

[@davidyelland908]

Loved both videos. I wonder why Line 6 still neglect to offer the option to move mic position in relation to axis. Even the Pod X3 Live had on/off axis option. This gave the option to reduce fizz without adding a block.

[@400_billion_suns]

Hey Jason, thanks much for your kind words and including my comments in your video! I just wanted to expand on one important qualifier I put in my comment, to make sure I'm not misleading anyone. I stated that in most current-generation modelers, the way impulse responses are utilized is just acting as a very detailed EQ filter, which is true. The thing I want to clarify is that impulse responses, *if they're long enough and the hardware/software is designed to deal with it*, can impart both EQ characteristics as well as transient characteristics like reflections/reverb. This is exactly what convolution reverb is, which uses much longer IR files. But, IRs used with amp modelers are limited to very short lengths when they're applied. In the Helix, for example, a 2048-sample IR (the max it will support) is 2048 samples divided by 48,000 samples/sec = 43 milliseconds. That means when the IR is applied to the guitar sound via convolution, anything that takes longer than 43 milliseconds to appear in the original IR file (like room reflections) will be cut off entirely. Also, most IR producers intentionally try to reduce room reflections in their IRs, because the goal is to represent just the characteristics of the speaker, cab, and mic -- not the room it's sitting in. Side note, the accuracy of an IR as an EQ filter is dependent on its length, too. If the IR is too short, the resolution of the resulting filter will be reduced, with it being most perceivable in the bass frequencies. That said, 43 milliseconds is usually more than enough to capture all the detail needed for a typical cab. TL;DR: Impulse responses *can* be used to impart transient (time-varying) information to a signal, such as convolution reverb. However, they intentionally don't do this with guitar cab IRs, because (a) it takes a ton of processing power to do it realtime with low latency; (b) baked-in late reflections are typically not a desirable thing in a cab IR; and (c) a very short IR already has plenty of data to create an accurate frequency filter for a guitar cab. So, even though impulse responses can be used for other purposes, when they're loaded into Helix, they are basically just working as a fixed but highly-detailed EQ filter.

[@JasonSadites]

My pleasure and I truly appreciated your comments :-) And YES, I totally agree with your comment here going further into discussing longer impulse responses. I thought it was best not to go into that side of things in the video so as not to confuse the matter further, rather just keeping the discussion to the way that IRs are implemented in the Helix. Great summary you put forward here and much appreciated :-)

[@400_billion_suns]

@@JasonSadites I agree completely with that logic! It's the same reason I kept my original comments shorter and to-the-point, too. Best to get the basic lesson across before introducing the rabbit holes ;)

[@HotRats73]

the thing is that if I have an IR that sounds right the way I like it, is very practical to store it and recall it when needed. with stock cabs this wasn't possible untill the introduction of favourites/defaults and even now you probably need to use the cab block and an eq block to get the desired sound. I don't find it very practical to use 2 blocks instead of one. with IRs is also possible to mix them outside the helix building personal mixes, something is impossible to achieve with helix stock cabs. I like to mix cabs, speakers and mics into a single IR, is a powerful way to design your personal tone. in my opinion stock cabs with default settings are almost always underwhelming while good IRs with good premixes are usually immediately satisfying. one last thing, is much, much more practical to use IRs whenever you need 2 or more cabs into the same preset for live use, for example a cab for the clean amp and one for the dirt amp.

[@Dunk0The0Punk]

Thanks for having the courage to do a test like that

[@JasonSadites]

My pleasure! I think it is a pretty important topic where there is a lot of misinformation floating around unfortunately.

[@picksalot1]

I wasn't sure if IR's were able to do something that Helix EQ's could not. Good to know that they can't. 👍 I use the Stock Cabs exclusively. It may be that users have a psychological reticence to change the stock Can mics and distances, Cab configurations, etc. because it makes some sense that Helix would have tried to make good Amp, Cab, Mic, settings, and blocks. Personally, I have to fight with myself sometimes when making those changes because I'm always wondering if I'm making a mistake elsewhere, and the Cab is not the location of the problem. As I get more experienced using my HX Stomp, that has become less of an issue, but it still in the back of my mind second guessing my choices. Thanks

[@benhodges9287]

Trust your ears

[@fen3184]

Nice! You sneaky sod. I couldn't notice the difference... 🤣

[@tylerdodmusic423]

Both can sound good. I do have a preference for the Celestion Greenback IR's for my Plexi tones! Love the stock cabs for the Fender clean tones though!

[@winter12ca]

I totally got what you’re saying and I agree. I use both, I even use my old PodXT. The only thing that matter to me is getting the tone I want. My only “problem” is that the way you say it give me the impression that you try to push towards the stock cabs. I think you prefer the stock cabs and, to me, you sound a little bit against IR and I can get why that can trigger some people. Sometimes passion can polarize more than we realize. We use what we like and we want others to like what we use…. Human nature.

[@JasonSadites]

The way I say what exactly? I am very open about my preference for using stock cabs and also very open to the reasons why. I have also been very clear that it is not because I think they sound better or worse as they are simply static eq curves in the same way an IR is, as they are implemented in the Helix. If somebody is "triggered" by reality and facts, there really is nothing I can do about that and that is not my problem unfortunately. What I am saying here, when people actually hear what I am saying and don't try to twist my words, is not polarizing in anyway, I am just keeping things factual. I do not "want others to like what we (I) use" I truly do not care what anybody uses. I made these videos as a response to the myth that somehow "stock cabs suck" as a blanket statement. As I said many times throughout these videos, people should use what works best for them, period. If that is an IR then that is what they should use. Hope that clears it up :-)

[@LDBecker]

Just getting back into Helix (floor)/JT Variax and now with a Line 6 Powercab 212+ (yay instant sale!). Would you load IRs in the Helix? Or in the Powercab 212+? If you ran them in the Helix, then run FRFR on the 212+? I'm just an acoustic player trying to make sense of this - fun, but confusing.

[@bbehrens6906]

Awesome. I use a James Tyler Variax and will, on rare occasion, change guitar models for certain sections of a song in order to get just the right tone (or as close as I can get to it) that I am looking for. But you have piqued my interest on using EQ to change the tone of the guitar. I have used Acoustic IR's and have found that they work better on my Taylor Acoustic Guitar than on any of the modelled acoustics on the JTV. Interesting. Everything impacts the tone that you hear, including new bright strings OR bronze OR flat wound, effects in the FX chain, placement of the amp in the FX chain, etc., etc. Unfortunately, there are too many variables and my ears can get tired. It's kind of like smelling different smells. After the third variation of a lavender bath scent, they all start to smell the same. This happens to me with trying to tweak the EQ to get a tone that I am searching for. Something similar happens when I absolutely nail a tone and I am extremely happy with it... and then I can't stand how it sounds a month later and I am not sure what mix context it was supposed to fit! Keep on Rockin' Jason! Nice analysis!

[@lillone0]

with a t-shirt like this, you MUST be right, Jason! :-)

[@dannyharris5300]

Is it possible that audio engineering companies have made IRs to be money traps? Also who is to say that these companies did not take a stock cab setting and an EQ block from the helix mix them together and then resell it in an impulse response?

[@micuronium]

From my understanding, IR’s aren’t static. That’s why they have different times of length (eg 200 vs 500 ms) in them representing the capture response time of the environment in which they were captured. Helix attempts to duplicate this with close reflections. Is this accurate?

[@400_billion_suns]

Hi, I added another comment in the replies to this video to explain this. Yes, IRs *in principle* do capture dynamic effects like reflections. "Impulse Response" is actually a physics/engineering concept that has long been used for many applications prior to cab modeling. In audio, they are also used for convolution reverb, which is entirely a dynamic application, using much longer IRs. But, the way IRs are used for *cab modeling* in devices like Helix uses only the very beginning of an impulse response, where the core frequency response info is contained, and it chops off the rest, no matter how long the original IR was. You get 43 msec of dynamic behavior from a 2048 sample IR and 21 msec for a 1024 sample IR. You are correct that Helix's Early Reflections parameter for the stock cabs adds this back in, but with a 1024 or 2048 sample IR, you're not getting much more than just the basic frequency response information and maybe a tiny bit of internal reflections from the cab. In practice, the difference probably isn't audible, and Jason's blind comparison of IR vs. frequency-matched-stock-cab shows this to be the case. So, in theory, IRs capture dynamic behavior. In practical application, as they are used in Helix and most other hardware-based modelers, the IR is truncated (regardless of original length) to 41msec or less, and that length is just enough to get the frequency content from the IR and little else. If you're using an IR-loader plugin in your DAW which actually supports 500msec IRs *without truncation* (this is an important gotcha, because many will import an IR of any length, but internally it chops it off much shorter), then you will be hearing frequency characteristics and some room information. But this is a different comparison than an IR inside Helix vs. Helix stock cabs. Lastly, IR captures intentionally try to exclude room reflection information using large and/or treated spaces, because it can make things sound muddy. Adding reflections/ambiance with a block/plugin afterward is the favored approach because it offers more control.

[@micuronium]

@@400_billion_suns Wow, great explanation! It basically re-enforces what I thought was the case. I use the "Space Designer" reverb in Logic X when I'm jamming with headphones to use the room reverb IR's they have preloaded to give me some space to play in. But you're right, I actually prefer the shorter IR's and stock cabs in the Helix because they do give me more control over ambience with reverbs or early reflections after the fact. I have also tended to frequency split my signal with 760 Hx going to an SM57 or 409 and having 20-30% close reflections on the highs and 0-5% (inversely proportional) on the lows to keep it focused. I essentially create my own custom IR doing this. Especially using different cabs (I like the GB25 up top and T75 below, which sounds like a Creamback65-loaded 4x12 to me). I've

[@400_billion_suns]

@@micuronium Nice! Sounds like you've got a great approach and solid understanding of how to get the most from all the available options. Splitting by frequency and routing to different cabs to get the best from each is a great idea, as well as using the brighter one to add reflections. I do something kinda similar with dual amps, where I use one for the bright/chimey treble, and another for darker meat/bass thump. Using a subtle, barely-there stereo chorus before the split gives it a really nice spaciousness, like the signals colliding and mixing in a room.

[@Timrobrus]

My only reason for using an IR is to try and mimic a model which isn’t included in the stock cabs such as 1x15, 2x10 and 4x10 ceramic Jensens and the Suhr Hedgehog (ported 2xG12-65)

[@shanecgriffo]

I’ve used both ir’s and stock cabs and always just tended towards the stock cabs in most my patches but i just the other day bought the mikko classified plugin that is a cab vst with some amazing ways to use and create ir’s on your computer .. the bonus being that it is fun and simple to use and you can save your results and then use it in helix.. options! :)

[@dookieeater]

Tbh it’s hard to beat a lot of the cleaner amps in the helix paired with the stock cabs...that being said I personally as far as my high gain tone preference I always love greenbacks and v30s and I use IRs straight from celection and I have a hard time finding stock cabs in the helix that tickle my fancy like that’s IRs do but then again lol I have a bias

[@brianmeade6037]

Hi Jason quick question, can I use the helix to channel switch my amp with midi AND run my favorite distortion pedal externally via another send return. Is this possible to have 2 send/return in the chain?

[@uktmaxx]

if i am trying to replicate a specific sound, then i go stock cabs 100% of the time... but if i am going for MY TONE, i go 2 x IR one with a 121 Ribbon and one with a 414 Condenser, either a 2x12" or 4x12" Boogie by Ownhammer... me, my tone, not trying to recreate a specific rig.

[@sjsphotog]

Haters will be haters Jason. Just ignore and continue making great music. A much better use of your time ;) can't please everyone all the time. As pros know, using eq in the studio is common place. Use the right tool for the right job. Stock cans are great if they weren't like 6 wouldn't have sold so many units and all be the most popular in the music community. IR seekers want you to believe you need to buy their IRs but they don't solve all the issues people think they solve and might cause more issues and frustration with TOO MANY choices. Find one or two and use those but don't throw loads of money at IRs, learn to use your hardware. Plenty of free irs out there as well to try it out first. Keep up all your great work. Don't worry be happy. ;) rock on.

[@MrCgar18]

I have ir and the stock cans and I have switched back and fourth a few times.I played with one then tried the other then went back to other,and a few times I went with ir other times with stock,see plenty of choices!!!!

[@michael.folsom]

Not first. Tricksy hobbitses! I picked only one cab choice in good faith, and you LIED to meee! Seriously, though, good blind test. Thank you for setting up this practical exercise showing how the stock cabs are perfectly usable. A lot of grumbling exists out there about lack of lateral positioning/perpendicularity (ala QC's cabinet controls) on the Helix stock cabs. I think you mentioned briefly in the first video about using EQ blocks to simulate those parameters. Any chance you might do a more focused video on that topic to give some rules of thumb on how/where to apply EQ to simulate lateral mic positioning and/or mic perpendicularity changes? I apologize if you've already done that and I just missed it somewhere else in your library.

[@Bobby_Digital37]

I would venture to say this method works for other software amp cabs outside of helix too! 👍🏾👍🏾

[@DerekMarshall]

I think what you might be showing is that line6 could do better in the product by providing “presets” of just the stock cabs … with so many options for mics, etc. it might help to provide more startling points for players ie not more full presets but presets for the heads/cabs/mics … stock cabs are “super ir’s” :)

[@TechyTimM]

Perhaps part of the debate has to do with those of us insecure about our own ears who would rather place trust in an IR that someone we know says "it sounds great" than stepping out into EQ Land and taking a risk revealing what we prefer. It kind of leads to the Emperor Has No Clothes syndrome.

[@HotRats73]

Jason, you proved a point but if you take the output of the amp block without any cab and do the same thing with ozone, you can make it sound like a cab. You basically proved that a cab or ir is an EQ which is true, but we can't therefore say the direct output of the amp sounds good because we can make it sound good eqing it.

[@JasonSadites]

Sorry, I am not sure I understand what you are stating here. Just for clarification, are you saying that the Match EQ plugin could not EQ the sound of the direct output of the amp block to sound like an IR or stock cab? Just want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying and not putting words in your mouth :-)

[@HotRats73]

@@JasonSadites hi! I'm saying that you can make the raw output of an amp (with no irs or stock cabs applied) sound like a cab using an EQ. And if you use a match eq like you did in your video, you can make it sound very close to your reference.

[@JasonSadites]

Ok cool, then we agree! Just didn't fully understand your first comment, thanks for clarifying 😀

[@HotRats73]

@@JasonSadites sorry, I'm italian and my English is not perfect.

[@JasonSadites]

@@HotRats73 absolutely no need to apologize, just wanted to make sure I was understanding correctly :-)

[@djffe8597]

I think this concept goes beyond I R’s you can watch KZbin videos on overdrive pedals, compressors delays pick ups whatever it is but nothing helps more than to work with the equipment that you already have and learn how to get the most out of it before you go buy something else and I’ve been way guilty of that way guilty of buying stuff that really I already had that sound I just didn’t know it.

[@Zedacuequinha]

For me it’s basically a matter of having all in the box VS being able to switch cabs with snapshots Soundwise they are obviously different... and they are expected to be It is not exclusive of helix cabs... no 2 different IR (even with same cab and mic model) sound the same. I Never got all the hassle

[@mybackyardtale]

I've heard that IR are simply detailed EQ, but never found a proof(or I think never wanted to admit that it could as simple as that). Thank you Jason a lot for video and explanation! P.S It's funny how guitar world is fully packed with myths and magic which in reality are simple marketing... or people just want to believe :)

[@bjarnedahlberg5361]

Stock cabs ribbon is OK for most sounds except real high gain chord riffing The rest of the mics in stock cabs not so much in my experince and thats why most (easely over 99%) metal players go for IR instead of stock cabs if they choose Helix or they simply choose to switch from Helix to Fractal or Kemper or now to QC thats a fact noone can deny. The very common mic SM57 just dont sound as good on stock cab compared to a good IR captured with the same mic same cab at approximaty the same distance (IR makers dont reveal where they put the mic on the cab except Redwirez and Kaltenhallen Kaltenhallen even had you photos of the miced up cab. Stock cab dont capture off axis sound multiple mic sounds etc I really hope next generation of Helix copy what Neural has done on their QC But that will never happens as Eric dont like to borrow ideas from the comepetition. Dont mention Line6 boorowed snapshot from Fractals scenes if you answer as "scenes was on the M-series pedal long before Fractal started to use it) and snapshot has been on digital mixers for a very long time so its nothing Fractal invented. QC has made use of the very powerful DSP chip they have in their unit and they have "zillions" of IR's stored in it and a software that mimics how it looks when we mic up a cab I.R.L (But no grillcloth) and it choose an IR that was shoot for just that spot when you "land" on the same spot in the GUI. Very similar to the IR loader plugin Mikko from ML soundlab which they of course got the idea from in the first place as both Mikko and Neural are from Finland altough that GUI isnt new at all it has been around before those came on to the scene but that has always with software calculations of how it would sound like now we can use IR instead as the technology let us do that nowadays. Sooo maybe we can see this idea in a future Helix model? In the future i bet we can simulate "the amp in the room sound" maybe i wont be here to experience it as i am almost 60 years old now and they just find out to mimic how a recorded cab sounds so you barely can tell which is which.

[@loopie007]

Can someone explain to me how I can give this video 10 thumbs up?

[@StratsRUs]

But.......these go to 11

[@TVoltG]

😂

[@alicejanecole2800]

As a studio/live sound guy if guitarist learn that guitars actually sound like crap when solo because YOUR SETTINGS ARE NOT ALWAYS GOING TO TRANSLATE. Yes the irs are just eq and i would much rather use stock because you can create you and not copying sone one els. But i do tell tube sobs this. "Wow, i am so glad that the average person that dose not even know anything about guitar, can tell that is a mesa tube amp" Same thing with irs. We are playing for people that dont know or even care.

[@iresentdoingthis1550]

Helix Stock Cabs are great! Stock Helix users suck as they're a;; wishing they had a Axe FX / Neural DSP / Kemper / whatever 'New' Toy comes out....by the way....get Helix Native turn off the Compatibilty Mode and you've got a 32 Core Helix that's 28 ( twenty eight!!!) more cores than the Quad DSP if that impresses you.

[@MikeBrayton]

You're literally taking on the, like, fervent religious belief of some guitarists here. And there's limited brain activity in this crowd. For us, it's never been about what's technically correct, it's always been about feel, and belief. If it feels good, it IS good, and CORRECT.... So yeah, you're going to get push back even from this video. But I admire your courage and persistence. If guitarists are willing to spend $2,500 on a guitar, and own multiple guitars in search of the perfect tone, I don't think they're going to easily let go of their dogma about IRs. $3000 on a distortion pedal? Come on man. Now that all said, IRs can give you a different flavor from what's available in Helix, and you may find it better. That doesn't mean the stock cabs suck. But IRs are all recordings using a mic. None of this is "amp-in-the-room", which may really be what folks are longing for by going down the IR rabbit hole.

[@ragnadrabinowitz7629]

I think people like to spend money on things they do not need due to magical thinking.

[@eddiecarrizales]

First!