Do Programmers Actually ENJOY Being Miserable?

The software industry may be messed up, but I need to be straight with you. You're resisting help! If you really want your job and life to get better, and to achieve better things in your software career - the complaining needs to stop. You need to stop resisting the things you already know you should do - and DO them. You can't solve all these problems alone!
In this episode, I'm going to share some harsh truths with you about your responsibility for why your career may suck. I don't share these to criticize you, but to help you confront the seriousness of your situation - and show you how you are truly more empowered to change it than you may realize.
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CHAPTER MARKERS
0:00 Introduction
4:55 5 Ways We Stay Miserable
6:34 1 Tribalism
10:22 2 Avoiding Responsibility
13:17 3 Giving In To Fear
18:08 4 Escapism
21:21 5 Pride
#programming #mentalhealth #career

[@HealthyDev]

Is it time you confronted your fears to stop identifying with your misery this year - so you can rise above it? What are you going through, and what’s your next step?

[@ryuhaneda]

Watched this and it resonated with me. The fear, the angst of not having moved, the frustration of dealing with difficult, complex code that I need to understand at an ever-increasing pace (feels like it sometimes), all this created a perfect storm in which I just said, "I'm done. I can't keep up this pace. I want to change, and maybe I need to do some really, really scary stuff to get out of where I am. But it's better than staying another year and knowing things won't change (short of me being laid off)." Thank you for the kick in the gas tank that woke me up. God bless you.

[@HealthyDev]

@@ryuhanedahang in there! I sure hope things get better for you this year. I know this stuff is way easier to talk about than do.

Hi Jayme, I decided to write shortly, but I could write my whole story, maybe in an other time. I am also a Christian, a musician (2 Diploms and over 15 years of active playing and teaching) and now from this year I have got my first job at a big company as React Typescript developer. Everything you just told about burnout I just lived through with music, and this change of path is a part of my may out of depression. (By the way, if you guys think the life is sucks as a software developer, try to earn enough money for a family as a musician. You will see, that your life is not as bad.) So I quit music about 4 years ago. I visited a psychologist a year long, I reconciled my relationship with God, with my parents and with my wife, I started working on my food addiction (I lost over 25 Kg), started to learn IT and programming, and worked a lot on myself and my relationships, and I wanted to find a balanced way to live in this unbalanced world to able to protect myself and my family. Now I have got my first tech job, I am super excited about this, and I pray for it, that I can learn on the way to not lost my mind and my motivation even if it is also not a perfect place to work. So this is my short story. I like your channel, please keep doing it! It is very valuable stuff! Have a good one, Gabor

[@monterreymxisfun3627]

As someone on the autism spectrum, I have blown through over 70 employers in 34 years. It's amazing how you never run out of employers. My characteristics seem to be more of a blessing than a curse. Through sheer repetition, I have learned to be loyal to the profession and not an employer. Almost no one gets fired from the profession unless they do something illegal. It pays not to become attached or psychologically invested in a company. Skill set is key to getting a new gig.

[@BittermanAndy]

I'm glad it's working out for you, but I hope you're a contractor, rather than a "permanent" employee who leaves after six months on average. I wouldn't hire such a "permanent" employee, personally, no matter how good they were (it takes 3-6 months for a new employee just to find their way around the codebase, so the recruiter's fee is wasted if someone leaves by then), but of course on a short-term contract it's different.

[@mayurdotca]

Wow.. 70.. thats unreal

[@bluebeard2]

@@BittermanAndy, once you get up to 70 of anything… regardless of why, clearly he's worked out how to pull it off Also, you don't have to trash talk him

[@BittermanAndy]

@@bluebeard2 can you please point at the part where I trash talked him?

[@docopoper]

As a fellow person who used to have my sense of self worth tied to my career and experienced a big break down in my ego. I really appreciate this channel. I'm not sure I would have been open to the message until the time was right, but this channel seems like it would provide excellent guidance to somebody who is at that breaking point or is recovering from it. And I'm really valuing your wisdom here too because I certainly still have weaknesses that come to the forefront in work and this channel is a good way to check in and make sure I don't fall victim to the same fears that originally trapped me. So thanks, the people who are not in a place to receive your wisdom are not the only people watching your videos.

[@HealthyDev]

Thank you for the kind words. I really hope you’re right!

[@Toastymuffin]

Confidence can also be gained by managing your finances in such a way that you don't depend on consistent income to survive. For instance, I made the sacrifices in my life to become debt free, by paying off 33k in 18 months, saved for 3-6 months of expenses, created another fund to allow me to quit/fire any toxic employer. I sleep better, I perform better at work, and I am a better employee, I am not afraid of setting boundaries with my employers etc... When I got laid off recently, there wasn't any money stress, just a bit of a hit to my ego and sad for others who weren't as fortunate as I. Quickly got new and better job.

[@BittermanAndy]

3:14 - "Agile is probably not going to really be done properly at some point" - truth! I found a lot more inner peace when I realised and accepted this.

[@Valelacerte]

My best and most productive period in web development was during the COVID pandemic. The entire day was mobbing. A few of us would pick our tickets of work, which had been properly atomized into manageable chunks. Using MS Code’s live share, each of us would choose to be either host, navigator, or coder. Failing tests would be written first, and commits were small and regular. The general attitude was to deal with problems now and not defer with a ticket. It was pretty intense because I usually like some hours of solo coding. However, the volume of work we achieved was impressive. Another good aspect of it was that some of us were coders, but others were testers and UXAs. So, while the coder navigating the UXA to code was slow at first, it meant that everyone had a deeper understanding of each other’s jobs and the project as a whole. The structure and management style of the project was simple and liberating. It was essentials and nothing more.

[@HealthyDev]

Mob programming really could be the de facto standard some day. I have an interview on the channel with Woody Zuill who discovered it. If you haven’t seen it already he schooled me really well on it!

[@Valelacerte]

@@HealthyDev Thanks, I’ll check out the video. I think there is resistance to mobbing among many developers because it can expose holes in knowledge and the degree to which one knows or Googles solutions. It certainly inspired me to learn more low level patterns. I would say that it was instrumental in the largest acceleration of knowledge growth in my entire career. I came from an artistic background and do not consider myself a natural programmer; I had to work very hard to understand many concepts and practices. I avoided exposing my on-the-spot capabilities for years by only solo programming. Once I risked pair programming and then mobbing, I discovered that, apart from a few freaks with supernatural breadth and depth of knowledge, most had similar skills to me. Anyway, thanks for the comment and content. I’m a new subscriber. BTW, have you ever spoken about implementing hot new technologies versus a more restrained reliance on established tech? I’m thinking of projects I inherited that adopted standards compliant but not widely adopted technologies that may have seemed like they would change the world at the time, but faded without trace.

[@antoniojesussanchezgonzale5319]

Thank you man for being so open and the wise advice. It’s a pleasure to watch every single video you publish 😊 Greetings from Spain!

[@HealthyDev]

My pleasure!

[@LukeAvedon]

I do love complaining

[@ZeonX69]

Thanks for making the hard videos that don’t always do that well on YT but are super important 👍

[@jp-gy3vh]

This was surprisingly inspirational. I’m going to go apply to an Api Architect Designer role now 😊

[@markojozic3944]

The more senior you get the less companies want you to code and the more they want you to manage. I code more in my free time on private projects I have fun on than on my actual job because it is not required for me to implement 10 small features a week. I don't see my self as a Prorgammer or Software Engineer .. i see my self just a regular guy who wants to improve his life. I think I am very happy and it has nothing to do with me being an awesome coder ... I am grateful for having a the opportunities I have but the things which make me happy have more to do with family and friends.

[@igordasunddas3377]

THIS!

[@Karg537]

I can’t deal with jr who thinks they know more than you but consistently churn out code that has endless bugs.

[@milenio4388]

I 100% hear you on this message but I'm personally getting tired of this idea that my shortcomings are the cause for life feeling unsatisfactory and needing to "reinvent" myself over and over, it's like Charlie Brown and the football. I'm all for self accountability but I can't ignore the fact that there is a widespread shift in life where wealth is harder and harder to get and it buys less and less security. We've all heard the talking points about a handful of people owning 50% of the wealth. I don't know, seeing widespread burn out from working people while corporations report "record profits" and seeing all the billionaire worship feels like a bad joke. But somehow 9-5ers are the ones that need to readjust and dig deep(er) as if the carpet is not being pulled out from underneath. Having said that, I appreciate your videos.

[@Vlfkfnejisjejrjtjrie]

@luke5100 you figure out ways to be more independent from the system. Don't expect 100% nomad swuatting but small things. Get out of debt and stay out of debt. Leave the consumerist mindset and be frugal. Learn to McGyver stuff cause the world is heading to 3rd world status and we are all on the train for the ride whether we like it or not. I place my trust in Jesus Christ and it helps subdue all the distractions. I can understand why world governments hate any form of religion except statism.

[@vulpixelful]

Unfortunately, statements like helloagain's is a form of castastrophizing ("the world [I assume the first world] is going third world status") and is often a sign of an impending breakdown as well. What helps me is to think about ways to get involved in my local community. Since, we all need more help from our neighbors nowadays.

[@sbqp3]

Hard agree. Many companies provide very unhealthy work environments, and we are supposed to adjust and go to therapy if we can't hack it? It's terrible. I agree with Jamie in that if you get stuck in a rut like this, you can only get out by standing up for yourself; Confront the gaslighters or people who try to belittle you or otherwise trick you into working overtime. But that does not take away from the fact that the system is rigged against you from the get go, and as a community we should really focus on spreading awareness about these issues and solving the root causes.

[@faridguzman91]

Im 6 yrs into my career hoping i would be somewhere where i would feel stable financially mentally and technologically, but every time there are things happening that have to do with the company and their priorities that make me feel exhausted and disappointed, like getting laid off twice last year because of restructuring. im mentally in a place where i just don't know if i can keep doing software professionally anymore and the only thing keeping me sane is that i gave myself an amount of time where i can say, i going to stop doing software and do a career change and work for myself. Its just the constant jobswitching and requirements in the company that happen so fast that im not mentally in a place where i am proud of being a softweare engineer and feel like i added no value whatsoever. I gave myself another 3 to 4 years in this field where i will find out if will totally change careers and do some design instead, and also stop working for companies (that make me miserable, or not at all anymore).

[@carlosirias4474]

Great video. Thank you for your content!

[@gastherr]

This episode was really personal to me. Like face to face talk late at night. Currently I'm struggling to find a new job. I lost my previous one october last year and I'm still looking. This event showed me how little I know about technology I've used. But at the same time it showed me where am I on my career path and how much I've already achived and how much I've already know. Good to hear you confront comments under your videos and it's good that you set boundaries for other people. Greetings from Poland :)

[@HealthyDev]

Thanks! Dealing with feedback online and setting boundaries is a struggle for me. I've made tons of progress in the 6 years I've been doing this, but I've still got a ways to go. Appreciate your encouragement!

[@evgenykopunov5459]

Thank you so much for being there for us and for your honest talk! To me your video gives off the vibes of you being frustrated with your audience, and getting defensive about the pushback on the things you say. This could be a warning bell for getting burned out and/or too stressed out, would hate to see it happen. I do believe you are providing good content, and you've got the numbers to show for it - and haters gonna hate no matter what.

[@HealthyDev]

The good news is the vast majority of my audience are incredibly open and supportive. Unfortunately, some of the people who are suffering the worst are really hard to help. You're absolutely right, those people are very frustrating to deal with. But this is the industry I'm helping (it's all I know) and it just goes with the territory. It's a daily learning process for me about when I should push back, and when I should be more open. Hopefully this one helps a few people by confronting them with a reality check - even if it does risk maybe offending some people who think I may be "biting the hand that feeds". That's definitely not my intention, but it's a risk I sometimes have to take if I'm going to really help people when they resist change. Hope that helps explain the motivation behind this one a bit better!

[@Silentstrike46_]

Very good video. I think the hardest part about hearing this was the fact that it's the same things I've been telling myself for a while now, but never wanted to admit to it. Hearing it from an outside perspective (especially one I respect to give good advice on remaining healthy in this difficult profession) made it all hit home.

[@HealthyDev]

Many people aren't in the place where this one will make sense to them, or that they're even ready to hear it. For those that are, I really hope it helps them. In your case, you sound like you're in the perfect place to get to the next phase of your career! Thanks for the feedback.

[@Jono-B]

Thanks for putting this together and sharing openly and honestly. Really helpful.

[@edrobinson1613]

My rant... I watch your channel and all I can say is "Thank God for small shops." In my over 40 years in software I was never in a company with more than 2 developers - me and one other soul. I was, however, never involved in a "world class project." I've been retired for several years now, the companies I worked with have gone away and so has the mountain of code I developed. That's probably the fate of all software and developers. I still do software for friends and family. Lately I have tried AI tools like Bart. It generates nice, error free code in no time at all! The handwriting is on the wall, to coin a cliche. My wife says I have become a cynic. I'm not so sure.

[@kirkb2665]

Bard?

[@sebbejohansson]

Same thing will happen as with all automated industries. The more its automated, the less personnel count it will take. YOu just gotta stay ahead of the curve and make sure that you are one of those are still there. As long as you still wanna be there.

[@DiogoMudo]

I once read in a blog post, I forgot the author, that "Today we write the obsolete code of tomorrow". All mountain of code all of us produce will suffer the same fate, so just let it go 😊

[@onewizzard]

Funny... I have been on multi-million dollar projects that's been canceled. The sooner you go through that, the more you will realize that your awesome means nothing if no one is paying for it or no longer in whatever crappy corporation you worked for.

[@dearjourneyxokamiahmonique]

Terrific post! Thanks for sharing this perspective. I’m embarking upon my programming career journey, so I appreciate advice on how to make a successful career transition and keep my sanity!

[@damianfarina]

I hear you loud and clear. Thank you.

[@fantasticalforestart]

Finding your videos is a godsend. I've had a crazy time breaking into the industry as a female engineer and have been fighting for my life. Just last year I hit a wall and I'm trying to overcome it. I'm also sober from alcohol 3 years. 💜

[@HealthyDev]

Congratulations on your sobriety! It's been 5 years for me in March. Hang in there, it gets easier! What's the wall you're hitting currently?

[@tecsmith_info]

There is some real gold on this channel, Jamie, thank you for providing us this value from your experience.

[@TheSilverGlow]

Preach it! You speak truth, and I hope many listen...

Valuable thoughts. 💙

[@ohcrap2222]

I really appreciate it!

[@mirzasisic]

From my experience, after life hits you hard, you either crumble or try to become your best self.

[@HealthyDev]

Well said. I guess I vacillate back and forth!

[@shahd7481]

As usual my favourite you tuber ♥️. You blew my mind. You always make me think out of my comfort zone.

[@stufco]

As a breathlessly terrified self-taught solo game dev who's been working mostly in Unity, this video spoke volumes to me. Personally, this year's gotten off to an erratic start, possibly (probably) exacerbated by kicking some addictions, but I'm doing my damnedest to keep my head up. There's a lot I'd like to say, but it's probably just self-indulgent, and I really need to stop procrastinating and opening youtube like an empty fridge. I just want to say that I really appreciate your video. Thank you for your insights and hard truths. Thank you.

[@KineticCode]

Have you worked for a company/on a team before going solo dev? Only reason i ask is cuz i started solo game dev as well, but i learned so much when i got my first job that made me feel like i couldve done so much better doing solo dev AFTER career experience. learning how to organize yourself and using a bunch of new tools and good coding practices help with solo dev so much. im doing game dev again after 4 years working and i'm much more calm and sane with my approaches to most problems rather than thrashing to do as much as possible all the time, wrecking the maintainability of the project

[@stufco]

​@@KineticCode No, and that's certainly part of the problem/fear. A lot of my learning and development has been in a vacuum, I don't feel like I have a frame of reference, and for a long time I was afraid of being a burden to a team because I didn't feel like I knew enough to be otherwise. After finally doing a game jam with a team, I'm not too worried about that part anymore (granted not a big sample size, but it was a confidence boost). I've definitely learned some hard lessons about maintainability, and my approach has matured. That said, I've become acutely aware that my next step needs to be working with a team and in some ecosystem of constructive feedback, because no matter how good I get at working with tools and managing the ambient panic and uncertainty, working for myself alone is not sustainable on many levels.

[@KineticCode]

@@stufco You'll do fine. i was self taught so i get the struggle. chances are you will perform really well in ur first job, but learn some very small nuances thatll round you out well! good luck my friend you'll be fine

[@stufco]

@@KineticCode thank you so much. That's really kind of you to say and just the sort of encouragement I need! Onward and upward. Thank you, my friend

[@ryuhaneda]

"...opening KZbin like an empty fridge." If that isn't one of the most insightful and descriptive quotes I've seen in a long time, I don't know what is. I'm self-taught as well and can confirm I've tried to mine this place for tutorials, ways to stay on the right career path, etc. This video came at the right time. God bless you as you move forward and congrats on taking care of yourself.

[@wendiborden6590]

Thankful to have found your videos recently. So much of this is applicable to me. 40yo mom with 3 kids and been with my company 11y. In 2020 the company sold to my boss and we lost about half the staff and replaced some with his family members. I feel stuck since my skills are so specific to the company and also some loyalty to help them being a small family business.Then 2 years ago one of the devs passed from a rare cancer. I'm one of if 3 devs left (others being the boss and his son). Have been unhappy for so long I've forgotten when I i wasn't. Have had some friends equate it to a bad relationship and it's so true. Have had the b!tch session group chats for years 😜 I needed this 💕

[@JeffCaplan313]

You're a slave to a rich family. Good luck to you. ✌️

[@AlexSuperTramp-]

Your videos hit hard!

[@WinstonCodesOn]

I have been considering a career change lately. This is exactly the video I needed today 😂

[@russellwilliams2898]

Thanks!

[@HealthyDev]

You're very welcome. Thanks for your support! 🙌

[@yiuminghuynh5252]

I've been seriously enjoying watching these videos, because I've had the privilege of going through every single one of the above LOL

[@HealthyDev]

It just means you’re self aware! And human… ❤

[@leftoverture1976]

I would like to get better at programming, testing etc. Thanks for the kind message.

[@cesarlabastida1392]

You have the gift of expressing empathy even through a video.

[@JustLikeBuildingThings]

Thanks for these videos, I quit a high-paying client facing job last year and taken some time out. In that time I've been given an autism diagnosis, and decided to make a career change into development, so seeing these are struggles others have make me feel like there is hope.

[@htbmixbox]

19:20 - my wife said: do it. I did it. best decision ever.

[@HealthyDev]

Good for you! I should have done it much, much earlier...

[@vincentbuscarello1357]

This is really wonderful. The amount of extended bitch sessions that went absolutely nowhere and helped absolutely nobody that I have been a part of is more than I care to admit. Gotta accept what you can and can't control and act accordkingly, whether or not you code.

[@HealthyDev]

I’ve been the originator of an embarrassing number of bitch feats myself. I think it’s a phase we all gotta go through.

[@quintencabo]

I really like your thumbnails

[@HA-it3hf]

Agree with everything here! Just one comment about being brave and confronting the manager, I think it's good advice but unfortunately the chance of success or 0 backlash is very low. I would only do it if I have another role prepared (i.e. another offer with another company) because then there are no consequences :)

[@EstebanGallardo]

I’m no saint but I don’t feel I have to be responsible for non-estimated features. I will gladly be responsible when I’m provided a design specification and there is real hard work in the pre-production, but it’s hard to do when you see people literally playing and fooling around that aren’t doing anything to help to reach the deadline even when you previously asked that you need that information to properly do your job. People who expect from programmers to do non-paid extra hours, nights and holidays to be working for free for people who don’t give AF about burning you out because they will easily find another code monkey to burn. The only good thing of leaving that shitshows is that you know they have an expiration date that you’re not going to suffer. If that people aren’t going to change, yes, it’s either time to create your own business or leave all together programming, because suffering like this isn’t life.

[@igordasunddas3377]

I agree, though quitting programming is not an option for me, I created my first programs when I was 11 years old. I love code, problem solving and such. I dislike clients / customers, I generally don't like people (except for those I know). What helps me is trying to address stuff that creates the PITA. It doesn't always work and sometimes people have already done that, but setting boundaries is an absolute necessity - I'd never work for free, I often refuse to do IT support for my family (except wife and daughter and both know stuff already). I certainly don't dare suggesting what you should do, but quitting your profession (not your job) will make you feel like you ran away - it did for me. So I started learning and addressed it to my managers etc. and got the time and budget to become better and possibly be able to work on the specification if need be or become able to understand it enough to suggest fixes before implementing an erroneous piece of software.

[@-Jason-L]

Dont be a feature factory. Accept that you will need to elicit requirements from people. Any docs given to you are likely incomplete, and took far too long to create. Juniors are told what build. Seniors figure out what to build.

[@TheJoYo]

> You get the courage after you get though it. The tricky part with that is, as a programmer is I will always be working on something I haven't "got through". If I already got through it then I don't need to work on it.

[@chrisnuk]

I've got a rubberduck, I talk to him, a wise old bird and he sees through all my BS.

[@HealthyDev]

🤣🤣🤣

[@yumz]

For a long time, I thought my identity was a programmer. I enjoy doing it, but it's just something I do and not "who" I am!

[@aslkdjfzxcv9779]

old tech guy, here. jayme's gotchu.

[@tanglesites]

This was a very uncomfortable talk, not because I feel I needed to hear it, but just because it is a uncomfortable topic. I wonder if it was uncomfortable for you? I think when making choices in life, we don't always consider any factors other than those that are imediate to us. I do not think most people naturally have any forethought, looking down the road and anticipating what could be and making contingencies, this is just not natural for some, and most younger people, there brains are not even fully developed yet. Thinking with emotions is another mistake some make. You make feeling a foundation for anything, because they are to fikle. You have to make a choice, that despite how you feel, what is right or wrong will not change. This type of infrastructure is often not in place. This was a really good talk, and I hope some listen, and at least consider it. And discount somethings HSD said, because you disagreed one or two things. People need to learn how to chew up the meat and spit out the bones.

[@HealthyDev]

It was uncomfortable for me, but I feel a lot better getting it off my chest. Hopefully it's more constructive than damaging, lol ;)

[@furious2563]

Great video. Personally I don't feel overwhelmed in my current senior dev position. In fact, I enjoy my position. However any change such as a promotion to architect triggers extreme anxiety, to the point that I am not sure I want to put myself into a higher position that causes such added anxiety. The anxiety responses all seem to have really ramped up with a big migration project I had to do almost single-handedly in 2019. Not quite been the same since. So I'm not sure if I actually should take a promotion on.

[@viniciusgarcia3452]

About taking the blame for yourself: I think that blaming others is giving away the opportunity of doing something about it. So I try to always keep at least a small portion of the blame to myself.

[@CosasCotidianas]

19:00 Man I've been struggling with that feeling during the last year. I want to change, probably try something related to selling food, but when I think of the income and the fact I'm building our house, I lower my head and move on. And things are getting weird in the company lately. I bring up this topic with my therapist on every session and he's like " week you have to evaluate benefits and risks"; he's right but I'm not able to do it, because don't want to fall into silent resignation.

[@thetruth5717]

One of the issues I'm facing in my software job is handling more administrative responsibilities while I'm also expected to get my user stories done in a sprint. I get it, we have a small software team so someonehas to do it...but I have deployment lists, roadmapping, idea generation, research and other tasks I'm evaluated on in addition to cranking out features..it's becoming a bit too much...I really enjoy programming, but the admin tasks are eating up a valuable chunk of my time and I really dont enjoy doing it. I have to spend a lot of time outside my work hours having to complete them. I don't know how much more I can sustain this...

[@DiogoMudo]

It is usual for bosses to not calibrate well the workload they ask of us. They usually ask everything they want, and it is our responsibility to say "Hey that's enough". Your stakeholders won't know unless you tell them, and explain the effort and time it takes to generate a well structured backlog.

[@andrewbrown8463]

User stories are a complete waste of time. Invented by people who don’t realise how much work is evolved in doing the actual work and think adding more burden to the developer somehow makes them happy and produce more output when the reverse is true. Don’t doubt yourself. Most of the worlds working software was able to be created without a single user story being created

[@jjsdf7sdfhj-xy1lg]

@@andrewbrown8463 You nailed it. User stories are always something ridiculous like “As a user i would like to search all the databases in the world” - completely unhinged from practical reality

[@TheJoYo]

I'm not worried about what other SWEs are gonna say, I'm worried im gonna burnout when I have to do a day job AND the thing I really want to do. I'm on week 2 of accidentally working until 4 am because I just don't have the time to do what I want to do.

[@masterchief5437]

Divorce themselves from the Dev identity, a better word would be Decouple themselves ;) I'm also a Christian brother! - P.S I could tell or had a sense that you had that belief in your other videos without you mentioning it Have a good one and thanks for the advice/counselling

[@HealthyDev]

Thanks! Welcome to the channel.

[@sadboisibit]

Haven't watched the video yet but I think it's an interesting topic of discussion. From a psychological standpoint *some* people do enjoy being miserable or at least the benefits of being miserable. They get to complain and rant to their friends and family. The attention can be addictive and hard to give up but it can be dangerous and counterproductive towards your long term success.

[@paulbrown5839]

This guy speaks a lot of wisdom

[@vulpixelful]

Despite the misery, there are undeniable benefits to being a software developer, even if you're tired of it. The money may not make you "happy" emotionally, but it certainly makes taking care of real world issues have less friction. Buying homes, renting homes, buying a car, even insurance rates -- all easier if you have high proof of income and/or a record of having a stable, high status job. I have 5-figure student debt that I will be paying off fast because of this unfulfilling position, for example. There is social status as well, but something I think gets glossed over is the social status it conveys to underrepresented minorities in this field who can be otherwise looked down on in society. Since in the US you are what you do, in a lot of important situations we have to be particularly high status somehow to get basic respect. As a woman, pivoting even to a less technical role would be fulfilling a negative stereotype. "Entrepreneur" doesn't ring in some people's ears the same when it's us, unless it's already demonstrably successful. So when folks propose a pivot or risk giving up a simple job status descriptor, there's a lot on the line.

[@Valelacerte]

I am reminded of a colleague who threatened to resign almost every day.

[@ddktst]

I went to the therapist and she told me that I already knew but refused to admit, I need to quit my job where I spent 10 years and learned everything , because it does not satisfy me anymore in terms of personal growth. I don't feel like I have enough space there anymore, I'm bored, I'm tired and I don't see any opportunities there anymore. that affects my family relationships because this frustration leads to anxiety, and this suppressed anxiety makes me nervous, angry and bitchy. my 2 years old daughter yields at me in the mornings forcing me to leave, cuz she got used to me grumbling, my wife got on zoloft because of my behavior. that is totally not okay.

[@marcusaurelius6847]

From someone who doesn't know you, leave that place man

[@theplaymakerno1]

I tried my best to understand the point of this video. The only thing that I understood is that programmers should think about becoming managers.

[@genechristiansomoza4931]

Just accept the fact that software devs are just "construction workers" in virtual world with a better pay compared to our counter part in reality.

[@marcusaurelius6847]

At least construction workers have clear plans

[@paulbrown5839]

Digital plumbers

[@hawksvk1711]

I don't like the message implying that staying a developer for a long time will eventually lead to being miserable and the solution should be to become a manager. However, I agree that in order to advance, one must step out of their comfort zone.

[@dipereira0123]

this situation has a much deeper root that it seens: IT back in the days Used to be "Nerds" subject. some of those guys had to endure a hard education path without the glory that comes with medicine or engeneering. In short, They were used to get bullyed, so their confidence and self steen was always low. another thing, IT is HUGE! if you are a programmer you may be a specialist in a field or technology, but for most people when they talk about the IT guy(s) they put the specialized backend engineer on the same bucket of the printer guy etc... they also expect that the Developer knows all the tech stacks and technologies and these been changing every day. Even today, the tech guys are not the ones receiving the praise in startups, its the commercial team that sells the Ideia or the product. the "IT guys" are just the ones to be called to make it happen behind the scenes To solve this issue We just need to tell people to go F*ck thenselves. People been acting japanese, thinking they can wear overwork and burnout as a badge. celebration of the misery my As*

[@igordasunddas3377]

Definitely. I never work overtime if it's not paid and even if it is, I decide whether I want to. I have a family and hobbies and I work to live, not live to work. I definitely tell people to go eff themselves if something is just wrong, though I usually package that in a somewhat more professional wording.

[@train_xc]

Millennial here, agreed 100%

[@InconspicuousChap]

Talking to other people, making collegial decisions is not a manager's skill, that's a normal property of a human being. The problem with being specifically a manager is an attitude totally inappropriate for solving engineering tasks. An aircraift either flies or it does not, a brige either stands or it falls, and a software either works or it does not. Managers live in reality of blurred concepts: "accepted risks" which they have no idea about, problems swept under the rug, screwing over each other (it's tempting to take an immediate profit this way rather than going a long and hard way of producing something), inefficient sloppy bug-ridden implementations "to hit the deadline" (Where do all those "deadlines" even come from? Managers' personal ambitions?). And when such attitude is accepted by a software developer, it makes them produce crap, and here goes burnout. So the first step to preserve a sane mind is to avoid managers' leaven in engineering.

[@HealthyDev]

Totally get where you’re coming from. However…the role of management is not supposed to be so out of touch with reality. That’s just what many of us have experienced. If you become a manager it’s not a given that you work the same way as bad management you’ve had to deal with in the past. I think sometimes we’re afraid of the role not because of what it’s supposed to do (empower and oversee people working together better), but we’re afraid we’ll become the tyrants we’ve experienced. Totally reasonable, but still not a reason in itself to avoid stepping up. When the time is right of course - different for all of us.

[@InconspicuousChap]

​@@HealthyDevIt's not about a tyrany vs freedom dilemma. I've seen literally hundreds of managers through decades. I've been a manager myself for 12 years or so. I know how difficult is it to manage stuff being an engineer and how persistent most of the managers are to introduce alien concepts into engineering. They are not doing it out of tyrany, it's more like Midas touch, only Midas was converting material things into gold, and managers convert activities within their area of influence into guessing, politics, playing with expectations, etc. Of course, it does depend on their free will, like every other human actions do, but why even care? Only when the problem is stated like "do it right or die", they start to appreciate the engineer's view of things. And frankly, there are not a lot of mission critial projects today. People go to jobs, get salary raises and promotions, but hardly do anything useful at all, that's why shoddy "management-style" engineering has become acceptable in the first place. So what do the jobs become? Doing some rubbish to get some money?

[@igordasunddas3377]

​@@InconspicuousChapif managers wouldn't keep considering themselves as the main character, but as A character like everyone else, they wouldn't think of introducing things against all suggestions from people, who actually know how the software is built. This is my number one reason why I refuse to work with particular managers and love working with those, who don't "top-down" things onto the team(s) or me in particular. I'm allergic to people, who think they can force me into doing things just because they decide they want it while it doesn't make sense. Perhaps I've got a problem with authority, because in fact I don't accept any, but I don't mind going with ideas, designs and processes I consider useful. I am a software engineer with around 13 years of experience and I dare say I'm quite good at the technical part, not so much at consulting. So I don't know all the bells and whistles there, but I've literally changed employers over stupid managers, who refuse to learn to care about the opinions of other team members. Also there's a difference between accepting particular risks, because they're highly unlikely or because e.g. level 3 support is expected to make it work until the second damn half of the feature is live. Frankly my ability to show teeth brought me into a position I dislike - that of a line manager (level 3 support lead). What they don't see, is, that me thinking up appropriate wordings for the EfUs I'd much rather shout in the customer's faces, does cost me time, energy and effort. Then again they seem fine with me working like 4-6 hours instead of 8 hours a day, because I get the job done, blocking things graciously and turning things into additional work packages, that my employer can bill the customer for later on.

[@InconspicuousChap]

@luke5100it would be a real fun to read comments about inappropriate generalization from people who don't even read the message, if only I haven't seen thousands of such comments already.

[@DF-wl8nj]

@@InconspicuousChapCounterpoint: the engineering viewpoint can be summarized as “Work is a series of defined tasks which are solved by either implementing a defined strategy, or determining a strategy experimentally and then implementing it.” And yes, that is the definition of engineering work in a vacuum. However, in a business individuals have to deal with a much more complex system of others’ perceptions about a project, its value and how it fits into a larger strategy, and what its impact means for other areas of the business. The reality of the work we do is that engineering is not in a vacuum, it’s part of a larger strategy, and the job of the manager, which seems to be your concern here, is that the manager sometimes needs to make decisions about projects or how projects are done, which seem contradictory to achieving the project work but which are necessary to keep the broader ecosystem of the business functioning correctly. For example when I (not a manager) started working at my first full time job I was often frustrated by real, significant gaps in documentation and places where we had business processes that made my job as an engineer harder. For about a year I would occasionally needle people about making fixes and updates to some of these procedures. Eventually I got what I wanted: a big project to implement new enterprise tools that made our work much easier for sustaining products. However, for a variety of reasons related to the industry we work in, it took over a year to really get it implemented at full capacity, even with me working full time on it. What I realized quickly during this process was that regardless of how I as an engineer approached the project, people did have perceptions about the project that needed to be managed, and luckily I had a good manager who was able to keep people sold on its progress, so that it was carried through to completion. Beyond that though, I realized the scope of many of the improvements I talked about before would be months of work to implement well, and the reason we had avoided doing these things was to manage available resources for the highest value activities So yes, looking in management seems like politicking and inefficient control of resources, but the reality is that management is the interface between a mechanical engineering system, and a human business system, and human-centric systems are messy and complicated. This obviously is going to result in managers who have to control perception of the projects and direct engineering efforts towards specific goals as needed to keep the broader system functioning. That is simply good management. It’s not tyranny or inefficiency.

[@Mel-mu8ox]

The suffering you've learnt to live with, is often more preferable than the suffering you will have, learning to live without it :/ Takes a lot of effort to change how you live and think

[@TheSilverGlow]

The BEST programmers are not lazy!

[@jeremy_carver]

"A lazy programmer is a good programmer" is an unfortunate phrase based on good intent; Investing in automation absolutely pays dividends. You should almost always prioritize tooling when building something, even for yourself.

[@robotredkitten817]

It's weird. For me a programmer is a code monkey. I call myself a developer cause I know architecture and user experience development. I think that's way more interesting then just implementing.

[@thyagobrod]

After I found out that the problem is not Software Development, it's Capitalism, things got easier to handle.

[@mdelim3128]

IM A PROFESSIONAL CHEF FOR 20 YEARS AND IM MISERABLE AT HOW IM NOT GAINING ENOUGH MONEY LIKE THE SOFTWARE ENGINEERS IF YOU BASED YOU WORK AS SOFTWARE ENGINEER TO BLUE COLLAR JOBS LIKE GARBAGE COLLECTORS ,JANITORS ,HOSPITALITY LIKE CHEFS LIKE ME AND OTHE LOW LEVEL JOBS YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY YOUR A SOFTWARE DEVELOPER AND NOT SOMEONE PICKING UP TRASH OR COOKING EVERYDAY , TRY TO WORK IN OTHER JOBS AND LET ME KNOW WHAT MISERABLE MEANS ALL JOBS ARE THE SAME ITS ALWAYS STRESS BUT OTHER JOBS HAVE MORE MONEY INCENTIVE AND THATS MORE IMPORTANT IN THE REAL WORLD

[@sbqp3]

Money can be nice in software development, but it's useless if your work leaves you as a useless blob at the end of the day. And that's exactly what happens from all the mental abuse you're getting from people trying to make a career from cramming more work out of you, i.e middle management. I can imaging that working in a kitchen can be similar. But I've worked at fast food joints, and although stressful, you can get good at it and just do repetitive physical tasks while keeping your mind free. Programming is literally problem solving, and so there's no escape. It's subjectively a lot worse to get pressured to do mental problem solving under time pressure than physical labor. And sadly, programming is becoming a sweatshop like job, it's not all fun and games anymore. It's not that far from becoming a blue collar industry.

[@mdelim3128]

Stress is everywhere I any jobs but I rather be stressed if I gain good money than be stressed and gaining a miserable amount of money

[@Robfnord]

Yeah that sucks working in a kitchen especially when you have to debug random dishes from a year ago

[@Robfnord]

@@sbqp3haha yes! Tbh now I basically tell my managers it’ll be done when it’s done, trying to pressure me to solve problems faster is basically asking me not to solve them properly , not happening, I don’t get paid enough for this shit as it is let alone to be even more stressed about it than I am anyway

[@jsong8282]

I wonder if you happened to do Re:Gen, that’s a program I’m in.

[@HealthyDev]

Hey there. It was specific to the church I go to here in Austin. Pretty closely based on the 12 step AA method, but instead of "a higher power", being more specifically driven by faith in Christ. Any program that has at least a bit of its roots in AA is probably going to make a major positive impact on your life. I hope it does for you!

[@jsong8282]

@@HealthyDevthanks for the reply! Yes Re:Gen is a Christian based 12 step program and a ministry of Watermark in Dallas but has chapters all over. We are finished in 2 weeks, it’s been great. Thanks for what you’re doing with this channel! God bless

[@TheJoYo]

Kurt Cobain being a slacker is a weird take. The guy was in tremendous pain 24/7 and talked about it constantly.

[@HealthyDev]

I said "slacker persona". It's a way of projecting yourself. Not that you don't do things.

[@SajadJalilian]

❤❤❤

[@BEMEiTY]

Less fluff, more stuff.

[@vishtrinity]

fk software industry...i has given me maximum issue physically and mentally...

[@sebbejohansson]

Are you okay?

[@HealthyDev]

That's a hard question to answer without more info. Why do you ask?

[@wolfman5740]

Without watching this video, an unfortunate number of programmers prefer misery to any sort of change.

[@davenone8516]

Your channel has immense overlap with the ofsec community.

[@zedzedder4947]

Victim mindset is a bitch.

[@HealthyDev]

It sure is. I'll admit I was stuck in it for a long time...

[@TheJacrespo]

Sorry, tech bros, but this software development industry is dead in 2024. We will never return to the golden age of the last years. The massive tech layoffs will continue until the software development population is reduced to 80% of its current size. Just look for another profession and keep coding as a hobby or an auxiliary tool.

[@anyalei]

Eh sorry, but the whole patriarchal framing of "providing for your family" and all that nonsense made you have one less woman watching. 98.5, indeed.

[@xevious4142]

I'd lose the AI art thumbnails man. I love the channel but I think this stuff is at least ethically controversial.

[@HealthyDev]

What's in the thumbnail, or just using AI thumbnails in general you have an issue with?

[@HealthyDev]

@luke5100he's entitled to his opinion, but yeah I appreciate you reminding us it's our choice. I am curious what he doesn't like though. If it's just the principle of AI art or the ridiculousness of this one ;).

[@mckenn68]

@@HealthyDevactually love the thumbnails dude 👍

[@Vlfkfnejisjejrjtjrie]

@@mckenn68 I like the thumbnails too. Until he starts putting his titles in all caps with, the likes of " TECH INDUSTRY IN MELTDOWN, HERE'S WHAT'S NEXT"...I have no problems with his thumbnails. Oh..and no baguette face while pointing either.

[@HealthyDev]

@@Vlfkfnejisjejrjtjriebaguette face - gonna have to look that one up! 😉

[@unknownkingdom]

Stopped listening when he mentioned religion

[@View619]

I've never heard him force his beliefs onto anyone though? Religion is just the method he's found to help him move forward, that doesn't mean it needs to be everyone's. Personally, I'll probably never be interested in following any religion but I can still appreciate that it works for others.