Is Programming Stealing Your Life Away?

[@HealthyDev]

Can you be a programmer and still have a life? What are you doing to make sure you don't let life slip through your fingers while writing code? ►► Know your options! Access my FREE data hub for the top 25 software industry roles, TechRolepedia → jaymeedwards.com/access-techrolepedia/

[@Unc3]

You're creating an echo chamber of enthusiasts by running this channel. Which is great. But your understanding of how people view code becomes skewed. Most people just view programming as any other 9-5. So the answer is yes. Very easily.

[@vitalyl1327]

Even 9-5 is an exaggeration, nobody works 8 hours a day focused non-stop. The real productive or simply focused hours count is 2-4 a day at most.

[@FreeStyleKid777]

Real question. How can you grow in your career if you are not doing extracurricular work, e.g., personal projects, reading, watching videos related to prpgramming? Especially in this economy where every single inch of advantage can get you the job? I know I am not living the best life, focusing too much on work, but I am genuinely curious, because I do want to improve, I am curious, I worked extremely hard to get where I am, but still, I barely make money and I am on tje shittiest projects the God could put on this planet. I just want to know...how to get an edge without working extra on myself for my career?

[@vitalyl1327]

@@FreeStyleKid777 since your learning benefits your current employer too, you just need to do it in your paid 9-'5 time. Use a better time management and pay attention to your current mental state, and select the right activity for a moment. If you feel productive and able to focus - do your work (tickets from backlog, whatever else), if you're a bit tired and foggy - do some light learning to freshen up, if you're out of executive points for today - do admin and such.

[@flxCat_]

I do sport for my body and yoga/meditation for my spirituality. As best I can without it becoming too much.

[@strathound]

My wife divorced me and one of the reasons she gave was the amount of time I spent playing video games. I was pretty pissed at the time, because she spent an equal amount of time doing mind numbing things like watching "The Kardashians." So I was pretty defensive and didn't listen to her about it. But ... in hindsight ... being plugged in to the digital world all the time is just not very attractive. It may be fun. But to your point, your life is just flying by. I got overweight. I had health issues. I was drinking a lot. Now I live in the mountains and teach skiing. I'm outside all the time. I'm a lot better off both mentally and physically as a result of resetting my life and changing my priorities.

[@HealthyDev]

So sorry to hear about your relationship. That had to have been incredibly hard. I'm envious of your ski instructing move. That sounds awesome!

[@KickAssAndChewBubblegum]

I went nuts being plugged in for years. I played games but not a much as it sounds like you did. However, I was working 12+ hr days and I was usually wiped out after commuting home for 2 hours. And for that, my wife (ex now) started talking to dudes online. Didn't take long before I caught her and ended it but it made me realize I needed balance. Got a motorcycle and spent a lot of time on the road when work shift was done. Got a kayak and spent tons of time exploring the rivers around me. Love being outside every chance I get. Luckily I was able to retire in my 40s so balance is never an issue again but I wish I figured it out in my 20s.

[@marcusaurelius6847]

You should have left her for watching The Kardashians

[@KickAssAndChewBubblegum]

@@marcusaurelius6847 Huge red flag

[@asofotida443]

Believe me, you CANNOT make a woman happy.

[@denisblack9897]

I spent last 1,5 years just laying around in a cabin, burning wood and eating buckwheat. And I don’t think I healed back to 100% after 8 years of non stop coffee + weed induced programming. This is a very dangerous job. It may look like people are just sitting in front of a computer and drinking coffee, but it’s much much harder than being in construction. You sleep like a baby after construction, but after programming - you can’t fall asleep, cause all the solutions pop out exactly the moment you go to bed

[@brajat5538]

Somehow brains starts doing hyperactively good, when you just want to sleep good!

[@MgelikaXevi]

I can`t sleep if I have programmed in the evening. I am like in a loop, with no exit, just looping through some code snippets being half-asleep, as if brain is trying to find something constantly... and then I wake up tired... This is kind of the main reason I avoid overworking completely, because I can`t even keep up with this, when I want to overwork. I had similar issues with some games, that required a lot of planning or difficult adjusting, for example. My brain would be stuck in that "planning" for whole night then, till It just turns-off from exhaustion. I stopped playing difficult comp. games at evenings because of this.

[@MrTimAuld]

@@MgelikaXevi I've found that too. If I work late or play intense games past about 9, I'm not relaxed and have trouble falling asleep and often have night terrors. It's much better to switch off, chill out, and accept you'll have to resume work in the morning. I typically sleep long and deep now. It's better than feeling awful the whole next day. I also gave up coffee years ago, as I have a high sensitivity for caffeine. One cup of decaf first thing in the morning is all I can have. It took me an unreasonably long time to figure these things out, or at least admit to it.

[@SavageHolster]

I've been on paternity leave for the past 1 month, with two more months to go. During this time, I have discovered a whole new side of myself, spending quality time with wife and newborn, learning parenting from my family and friends, and seriously organizing my finances. I'm using this time to detox from programming and video games, and formulate my exit strategy from this programming career. It's uncharted territory for sure, but so worth it.

[@HealthyDev]

Amazing! I'm so happy for you. Sounds like you're making some giant moves towards a more sustainable way of working.

[@TheSilverGlow]

Good advise! I burned out my nerves and eye sight after 45 years of cutting code...I wish I had heard and considered your advise decades ago. I wish I was a better parent, but I allowed my career in coding to get in the way...I was a careerist, job hustler, and a chaser of the dollar. I did well financially, but at a cost that brings me to regret now, at age 64. Still, life is not bad, and I have a wonderful family, grandkids...you provided a good warning to those younger than my 64 years (I'm still working and love it, but I have more balance in my life).

[@HealthyDev]

Thanks for the encouragement! I just try to make the videos I wish someone had made for me. Sorry to hear you have some regrets too. The good thing is, people do forgive when we own our mistakes (at least that's been my experience). It just takes time for them to see us in a different light. I guess we can't guarantee it, but all we can do is try to say we're sorry.

[@TheSilverGlow]

@@HealthyDev, I came clean, and they forgave me. :-). Its such a massive weight to just give up the truth, let it flow out, and the healing feels so good! Keep up the great videos!!

[@vulpixelful]

This is why I think some hiring expectations are toxic. By overindexing on out-of-context recall, they encourage us without perfect memories to be constantly "reviewing" even obscure topics to prepare for interviews. Most positions aren't for work that's too abstract. If it ever is, they should hire for that, but there's no way a person who builds CRUD APIs needs the same technical expertise as someone building a compiler. A lot of prominent tech authors are out of shape or divorced.

[@BillClinton228]

Its just lazy hiring... go to leet code solve a problem... then the website tells the manager who got the highest score.

[@vitalyl1327]

To be fair, most CRUD flows are so badly written, so broken, that you'd wish the more competent engineers had to work on CRUD (obviously, it's very hard to convince them to do so).

[@vulpixelful]

@@vitalyl1327 I'm not implying that CRUD app developers are incompetent. They only have a different skillset that is increasingly not evaluated.

[@vitalyl1327]

@@vulpixelful and I am saying that it would have been much better if they actually had a deep and profound CS knowledge and a mathematical mindset. The current CRUD developers skillset is inadequate.

[@vulpixelful]

@@vitalyl1327 Well in the private sector, things just have to work and be maintainable. Modern products also demand expertise in system design and tooling. Different set of skills. Someone can have both, but one skillset is definitely more applicable than the other in the appropriate situation.

[@oNuKuBo]

Programming, alone, never took my life or my soul away and I'm still having fun doing it. It's the company, bad culture, toxic colleagues and, sometimes, those managers who tell me what to do even if it's not practical thing or a proper way to do. Those are things that drain away my faith and motivation from an IT world.

[@TOn-fx2gr]

Exactly + despite all the hard work I am still constantly trying to figure out a way to start a personal projects to make enough money to be able to at least live normally , or a way to find a job in another country where the wage is little bit higher

[@imqqmi]

This. Not sometimes but always managers/directors/board that mess up their own products and loss of capital because of big egos and poor management skills. Best advice is to stay out of business politics which can be hard since software development and management are so intricately linked to each other. Best thing to have is an exit strategy with all the companies you work for. Once the conditions that give you energy are no longer met for more than 2-4 weeks, have another job lined up and switch. Don't go waiting until conditions become better, it'll never come in time for you not to drop into soul sucking situations. Once you're in the low energy soul sucked situation it's much harder to switch since that also takes a lot of energy, you're stuck. In the end it leads to a bore/burn out and recovery might take years with loss of friends, health, family, houses etc.

[@metal571]

Really thankful that you are continuing to make these videos, Jayme. Many of these habits and patterns, just like software patterns themselves, are so easy to slip into that you almost don't notice it until they're pointed out.

[@HealthyDev]

You're very welcome. I know not everyone will heed and agree with this stuff. I'm not sure how much I'd have listened in my 20s, that's for sure!

[@anupambphoto]

Hey @metal glad to see you !

[@laurentiucristian1]

I'm 25 years old and a lot of people in my age group always talk about job, and promotions, finding new job opportunities, learning that and also that and so on. Over time I lost some of my hobbies, for example I used to play random songs on guitar and make them metal, or I used to go to gym. It started with an internship when I was 2nd year in college, I didn't stop working at all since then, I went for a master degree right after college even if I didn't need it, but everyone has one and "opportunities". Now I find it hard to have a break because I'm no longer living with my parents, I have rent to pay, travelling is expensing, going out with friends and expensive and so on. It's not about the job itself, but the culture, bad habits that are hard to overcome, expectations, you always need to accomplish something for your career (not yourself).

[@Dnserror88]

Yeah.. been a dev for three years now and feeling burnt out. There's so much pressure to know everything (new js frameworks, new styling solutions, new state managers and the list goes on and on). Of course there's no need to learn all that and you should instead focus on what's needed for the job, but the pressure is still there. Oh, and interviewers expect you to breathe code and have these crazy interviewing rounds with coding tests. Like do you expect a plumber to work on hobby plumbing projects in the evening and to perform plumbing demos while applying? Also unfollowed all these tech youtubers like Theo as these kind of videos just induce dread. I try not to think of code after work but it's hard. Especially if you didn't 'finish' your planned work for that day. It's easy to say oh just continue tomorrow. But that feature/bug will still be in my head all evening...

[@christina_cl]

"Like do you expect a plumber to work on hobby plumbing projects in the evening and to perform plumbing demos while applying?" That's something I don't get either. Why are we viewed as lazy or bad programmers if we don't do programming in our free time? I'm sorry but I'm already exhausted from working long hours, I'm not going to spend the little time that is left doing the same work for no money.

[@asofotida443]

What really IS life? I used to code 12-15 hours a day and used to love it. Some of the best music was experienced during this time, being in the "flow" is one of the way to be happy as per Martin Seligman. As for family, after 10 years most couples literally hate each other, dealing with a woman really does not bring much happiness. I do love to spend timeeith my son playing tennis, also enjoy playing guitar but ... I still miss my coding days. Also, because of the many hours spent in programming, I have now had a great career for over 22 years.

[@simoroshka]

I decided to stay in the same company on the same project for many years. This way I'm not pressed to learn everything there's in my field or maintain the interview questions skills, I only focus on stuff directly related to my job. There are some downsides career-wise but at least I have a life. It also helps being in a country and in a company that values healthy work-life balance. It's uncommon to do overtime where I am. I need an exit strategy though, I don't have one and I would hate being a software developer for the next 20 years.

[@TheSilverGlow]

I meant "Being in IT is not the place to stop learning"....

[@simoroshka]

​@@TheSilverGlowin IT pretty much every new task is something you need to learn how to solve

[@couldntfindafreename]

Don't worry, it won't last 20 years. AI will end it in a few years max. Unless you skill up as an "AI wrangler" yourself.

[@otaviodecampos]

I think in a world where living is really difficult and no one has any guarantee of nothing, programming gave me so much. I'm 34 now I agree with most of your points, I just wanted to put another perspective on the table. I struggled with many problems until here but programming saved me. As you said, it won't save me forever. LOL

[@monterreymxisfun3627]

It is only if you let it. You have to push back against a demanding employer. Be willing to walk away from an employer. Let it be a hobby that you get paid for. The paycheck-to-paycheck trap needs to absolutely be avoided. Restoring a junk car is a nice respite from virtual experiences; do most of the work yourself. I have had a NO OVERTIME policy for my entire 30+ year career irrespective of the consequences and never regretted it.

[@TKGZONE]

The more i found about how to get into tech the more i dont want go into it. The hustle culture, the tech bro, positive toxicity, the over analytical people/judgey people trying to optimize everything, being result oriented at any cost was just was such a turn off. These people need a chill pill. They make work their life which ruins it for everyone.

[@stewartdahamman]

First comment ! Computers, Electronics, Programming , business and jobs have all stolen my life and mind-share away, I enjoy most of these thing but I know I will regret the effects and honestly don't think I will ever be able to overcome it. I know my other-half and family feel neglected.

[@kassios]

Undertake family activities and house work and schedule it is as unavoidable work. Fulfill those tasks with pride. Schedule time slots for yourself as well. It may be working out, reading, or learning a musical instrument. Then you can appreciate programming while being a whole person.

[@smilebot484]

programming is so addictive. i could relate to the spending of money piece. i think the endless requirement to learn new stuff weighs on me. i love learning but it's just endless. i went from academia into coding. so this seems like a cakewalk compared to academia.

[@radioxerox7698]

Man, hearing you describe your family relationship hit so close to home, it's like hearing my dad admitting his problems. I'm the oldest of three moving out soon and its so hard to see someone genuinely believe that he's doing the right thing by hustling for the family, working overtime, but the result is that we barely know him as a person. Maybe eventually he will realise the same things you have

[@toby9999]

I've been doing software development as a professional for 25 years. Before that, I worked in factories. I found working in factories to be way more draining, demoralising, and depressing than coding. And not just psychologically... standing all day in overheated buildings takes a physical toll. I'm talking heat stress on a daily basis for 6 months out of 12. I now have the luxury of working from home.

[@adaptivedeveloper]

Amazing video. My children forced me to take perspective on the balance. I use house chores as the end of day signal. They are manual and allow you to switch off before value time with them. When it comes to career I have hit the sealing in my path a few times and each time it forced me to reinvent myself and was each time one step further from coding.

[@shakes268]

This is why I did not get married until my 40s. Work always took priority then I'd switch over to gaming immediately. I had two full time jobs - coding and gaming. I paid with my soul. Originally I broke this with RC airplanes as a hobby. I backslid. I started going to the gym and then finally met someone. I still game some, I code but its not an obsession any more and I am VERY active in church.

[@DiogoMudo]

I went through a "brainwashing culture" job for 3 years, and it messed me up pretty hard, as suddenly I was burning myself out for a chain of narcisistic bosses without realizing it. Now I am into a part time flex remote job that is not "prestigious" as other full time offers I got, but life is much more balanced, specially on spending quality time with the kids. I already decided that I will become a workaholic as a retirement project, when they become adults😅 The other thing I'd like to point out is that now I realize how much having good sleep, exercise and nutrition are important on the life-work balance, to keep a high level of general functionally (energy, mood, creativity, etc) I really regret being sedentary and having a late sleep pattern for almost 20 years.

[@DagarCoH]

As a company founder in Germany, next to all the administrative and bureaucratic stuff to do I like the times when I can "just" code.

[@sreebalajisree]

What you said is really correct, as people put unnecessary pressure on themselves as they don't have a career exit plan with them. Also I would like to add one more, which is people must have a skill set outside the technology which can help them to earn money..

[@AJSquirrel53]

A lot of this hits hard, and I haven't heard many people talk about this stuff before. Thanks for the insight!

[@IanGratton]

Everything in moderation... Jayme - really enjoy your channel and the way you are prepared to tell it like it is. Its impotant for people to know about this stuff. There is no long term study on what impact software engineering has on a person over a sustained period of time. I started coding when I was 11 in 1984 - as a child it was just astounding we could harness the power of computers and do all kinds of interesting things with them. Right place, right time - I wanted to be a software engineer - university a year early at 17 and post computer science degree straight into industry. I'm now 50 and I've been a Senior Dev/Tech Lead consultant for over 2 decades. Getting a 'toy' that Christmas set the trajectory of my life (so far) - I'm not complaining one bit - I consider myself very lucky to have a career doing something I love. I am still hugely passionate about the technology - I really feel building elegant code is an art form - BUT - you absolutely have to keep on top of whats your work/career and what is everything outside of that. I still sometimes get sucked into coding for fun - but - nowhere near as much as I used to and this is healthy. Solving a technical problem can be instantly gratifying - but - it can also serve as a handy distraction from something else you really should be thinking about - the coding comfort blanket. Keep these coming sir.

[@GnomeEU]

If I compare my coding job to all the other "careers" out there then I'm pretty happy with what I do and that it pays well. If I see other freelancers that have several stores and can hardly pay themselves a salary of 4000 bucks then I'm happy I just sit in front of a computer all day. The key to happiness is not to always compare yourself to the 1% that has it better than you. Compare yourself to the avg Joe.

[@Moonwavey]

And you didn't even mention the chronic back and neck pain!

[@SufianBabri]

And surprisingly some of these posture issues are very easy to avoid. I appreciate the work of channels like "The Posture Guy" who helped me overcome these troubling issues.

[@HealthyDev]

Oh boy I feel you there. I switched to a standing station about 15 years in. It was a rough adjustment. I plan to make a video about this at some point. I had to so a lot of stretching and physical therapy on myself to fix my posture.

[@VFansss]

Would love to see a video about this topic. IT is not taxing only on our mind, but also on the body. Having some feedback about someone that improved the situation is invaluable

[@SufianBabri]

I have noticed that by using a split keyboard I find it easier to maintain my posture. But it doesn't mean I don't need to take breaks or stretch or move every 10 to 20 minutes.

[@Moonwavey]

Great tip on the split keyboard. I work in pomodoros and take a 3-5 minute movement break after each one.

[@TravisHi_YT]

Thanks for Sharing Jayme. I quit coffee a several months ago do to issues it caused, it was a good decision. I sleep way better & don't get so anxious during the day now. I work with guys that use things that you mentioned, its scary the amount they do. I try to keep work thoughts to work hours but it's hard sometimes, thinking about a work solution outside of work is technically unpaid work. I have hobbies outside of screens, Gunpla & painting minis are great ways to do something creative that exists in reality; not the digital ether (so many digital projects I've worked on, no longer exist). I try to stay off the computer at home, but it is hard to maintain that discipline. Anyone reading this far, at least look into making your workstation ergonomic, get a split ortho keyboard, learn anything other than qwerty, stretch and pay attention to your posture.

[@butchdean]

Great video and firstly, thank you for calling what we do "programming" and not "coding"! :) I have to make a confession in that I was actually programming just a little while watching the video and a lot of what you said rang true to me. I'm only a little older than you, work a great job as a senior systems software engineer, but that learning addiction thing has me. Every single day I am tinkering with code, working on personal projects, or reading thick technical books. Now, right now I'm not seeing it as a problem per se because I go on vacation and pay attention to family, but it is a little insane the drive I have to constantly be working on something.

[@manishm9478]

I really appreciate your 4th suggestion. I love writing code, designing elegant systems, collaborating with other devs, understanding what customers need. But most of that is out of my hands at my current company and it is lonely, miserable work. Changing roles is def a good idea for me - I've been fixated on my ideal of being a programmer, rather than the daily reality.

[@drescherjm]

My answer to the question is most definitely yes. Spending 80+ hours a week for years did steal part of my life away that I can not get back. With that said at 26+ years on the same job I don't work those hours anymore.

[@TON-vz3pe]

And there are idiots like Narayana Murthy the founder of Infosys who is fooling young kids to spend 70+ hours a week at work.

[@marcs8325]

I'm 43 years old, 20 years of developer experience. But I'm very introverted as well. Going into programming was great, because it allowed me to have a career without much social interaction 😅 As I get older I realize I'm stuck, because the value proposition you talk about is indeed an issue. I'm not better than the developer I was 10 years ago. So where do I go now? That's a really tough question. I don't like people that much, I don't want to be a manager. At this point I even regret going into software... maybe I should have done the same as my father, mechanical engineering. He had work until he died. And most importantly, the job didn't change as much. The constant learning wasn't that big of an issue. Anyways... I still don't know. Meanwhile I have a family to support, so I just soldier on and hope for the best. I drink 3 coffees a day btw. I should get it back to one. That would be a lot healthier. I don't use anything else though. I'm so tired that I don't need to "wind down". I just friggin' crash at the end of the day and fall asleep.

[@flxCat_]

I´m glad to found your channel, Jayme. I have gone through many ups and downs and at the age of 40 I decided to do something new and become a tools engineer in the gaming industry. So far so good. Your approaches help me and also reflect my subconscious views. It's easy for me to only identify with my work and not feel my own boundaries.

[@HealthyDev]

Sounds like a great new path! Hope it works out. I've never worked in gaming personally, it seems like tools could possibly be a interesting niche.

[@vangedal]

Hey Jayme, thanks for the video and the insights, it really struck a note with where I am my self currently. Also, thanks for being open about your weed abuse (hope its ok I call it that), as someone with a similar experience, I really respect and appreciate you sharing that. I myself am also not smoking anymore, but recognise vividly the pattern of smoking to "come down" from programming. For me one thing that I find difficult is that programming tends to become an obsession and, in a way, a search for perfection, and we all know that there is no perfect, for sure also not in programming. That doesn't stop us though, for trying. Emotionally it can become really draining, these constant highs and lows, when things work out as you planned or fail to do so and you despair. For sure, also a sign that programming is stealing away your life :) Something I am currently working on, thanks for the inspiration.

[@HealthyDev]

Glad to hear you're in a healthier place now. Yeah, it was definitely abuse in my case.

[@computerfan1079]

I am on the brink of going into a programming career so videos like this are very insightful. Thank you so much for your honesty and openness, i truly respect that!

[@gabromanato]

Your standpoint is absolutely correct, though is missing a crucial point: getting a life is much harder for people who struggle with mental illness of other kinds of impairments. In this case, having a life as a successful programmers is already an outstanding result for them, considering how a society based on insanely high-level standards treat them in most cases. A nice aspect of the WWW in general is that you can always find other persons who recognize your talents and appreciate your values without being blinded by the social stigma that is often related to certain conditions. Here respect comes into play, not just pity. Sure, change is always possible for everyone, but in some cases is really hard and it takes more time and efforts. :-) Thanks for your work!

[@HealthyDev]

Totally agree. Holding a job with mental illness (or trauma) is incredibly hard for anyone! The companies I've worked for often had mental health benefits. The problem is it's ultimately up to the person to use them to get help.

[@gabromanato]

The interesting part of many US tech companies websites, at least the most influent, is that they recognize several impairments when filling out a job form. Local laws and regulations apart, this is actually something that is missing here in Italy. 😊@@HealthyDev

[@LukeAvedon]

Not being able to handle a programming job without massive, massive amounts of caffeine is a huge huge huge problem for me.

[@Jarek.]

What an eye opener 👍 All the best to you and all other digital slaves (including myself!). I'm not sure if I'm ready yet to do anything about this but at least your video gave me something to think about.

[@MrDmitrylukas]

I'm doing workouts during lunch breaks (walking/jogging, gym, boxing) and this helps a lot. Also trying to stay away from any type of gadgets during weekends, but not very much succeeded in that yet.

[@HealthyDev]

Nice. Sounds like you are on the right track!

[@GoryWory]

This channel is pure gold, literally EVERY word is straight forward truth. I plan to do programing for 8 more years, get basic condition for retirement (I am from Eastern Europe), sell some small inheritance and live like a human being with the money I earned.

[@dishcleaner2]

Thanks for sharing this. I’m 27 and going through some of the same stuff. I thought at least I have my band, then you started talking about your how work started encroaching on your band and songwriting. Hit really close to home. I also realized I was spending way too much just to stimulate myself.

[@HealthyDev]

It's only natural to have less energy for music once we get a job it seems. I just gave way, way too much of that energy into work and all but lost my ability to be creative. It's been a hard process tapping back into that in my 40s after so much neglect!

[@omarcrosby]

I totally relate to everything you've said here. Thanks for sharing.

[@RicardoSilvaTripcall]

This really resonated with me. I'll be 43 this year and I've been in the IT world for half of that time. I've neglected quality time with my family and friends, as well as my hobbies. Although I enjoy playing the guitar, by the end of the day, I was so worn out that I couldn't think about anything else. I have made some money during this time, but just realized it isn't enough for retirement. I'm also tired, I don't have the will or energy anymore to keep up with the new tech trends, leetcode, frameworks, certifications, clouds, new programming languages etc ... I'm now trying to focus on a few sets of skills, that doesn't rely that much on programming, and so be it. After all those years, I know now if I want to have a retirement or at least a better financial life, I have to go the entrepreneurial way.

[@General_Aladeen]

I think you can do part time work as software engineer or, whatever your tech expertise is, but anyways its still related to programming. 🙂

[@CaioCodes]

I lost my relationship over obsessing with work and falling again for depression when hard times hit me. Still in grief, and trying to bounce back. The problem when you hit the lowest, it that it seems that you have to give 2x the effort; but… when I was at the top, I was already giving more than 100%… it feels so hopeless and fatigue inducing

[@kirkb2665]

I couldn't careless about learning a skill, platform, framework or programming language that I'm never going to use. I'm more interested in being told what people want me to know than wasting my time guessing what I'm supposed to know and waste time and effort on stuff that I have no use for.

[@Supermitsuba]

How do you stay relevant in an industry having massive layoffs and your employer has been leading you to learn the wrong things? Now you have no skills. I would argue you need to push for the right tech at times. But I wouldnt change/learn tech because others like it. Just a double edge sword…

[@kirkb2665]

@@Supermitsuba You're always going to have to reinforce and learn new skills, but I have no interest in learning something just because I could possibly use it. I'm perfectly fine with learning things I'm going to be using or improving my existing skills. However, I don't want to learn something like Rust, if I'm never going to do the system programming that requires the use of Rust.

[@Meritumas]

@@kirkb2665yup, once you know CS fundamentals, 1-2 languages like C, Python then learning sth new is more or less the same stuff. But you do it only when you have to! Picking up new tech at work is the way to go. Learning stuff you don't use it's a waste of time.

[@thefourbytes]

It feels like you made this video specifically for me

[@thefourbytes]

What I have realized since the last time I spoke to you (in comments) is that I will start distancing myself a little bit more from programming in a very specific way. I have made a decision to pick up one language - Python (as I do lot of Machine Learning) and focus completely on becoming a good leader where my experience in programming can help others to do better, and become more of a theorist than a coder myself. Become a problem solver instead of working my ass off and coding day in and day out. Python will get most of the things done, even from a simple program to an advanced raytracing game (obviously a bad choice but who cares if I am doing this for fun and running my game at 10 fps). That way I will get myself out of the "I have to keep coding all day everyday" No I don't want to, I want to solve a problem at hand and have fun with the art. And as for the employment, I think I have come to a realization that everybody does job to get monetary benefits in the job and then literally "divorce" themselves from the job everyday and then work on something that is fun for 4-5 hours in a week just to learn new things. I want to become that guy and be happy moving forward in my life and to know that there are more things more important than programming.

[@maksimbolyavin8]

Totally applicable for my case. I'm trying to get my life back by reading and doing sports, but I don't have any need in social interaction even though I am usually the most talkative person. Perfect point about digital vs physical world experiences, this could be a key point for me. Huge thank you for the videos! 🎉

[@HealthyDev]

You're very welcome. I am constantly battling not getting sucked into digital experiences too much. It will probably always be a problem for me, but I'm not giving up!

[@KickAssAndChewBubblegum]

I know it's dangerous, but get a motorcycle if you don't live in a city with bad traffic. The motorcycle completely freed me. Been riding 25 years and never been happier with any other hobby.

[@Irina-pi1cy]

Thank you so much for your videos. They truly inspire me and boost my confidence. I used to think I was the only one with these thoughts and ideas, and I saw them as a weakness. But now I realize that many people face the same challenges, and it’s completely natural. There’s nothing to be ashamed of-it doesn’t mean I’m any less professional.

[@therealdecross]

Jayme, this video resonates so much. Thank you.

[@HealthyDev]

You are so welcome. 🙏

[@rogerssampaio652]

I am 47, tech leading at the moment, but lately I can not brush off the idea the soon I will be unemployed with no retirement. I am not very optimistic.

[@adnandzindosoda]

When I started with programming one guy said me if you want to be programmer be careful. First path is to program until max 35 and go to menagment, second to never get married and be programmer, third path is to build own company and quit programming. Now I know what he told me long time ago

[@Silb0tic]

I really need to say this. Your words sound so good. It's like something you really need to hear to change something or to improve yourself. Thank you for that. Looking forward for the freelancer video :)

[@despahotaru]

I have been lately trying to get into Warhammer 40k miniature painting. Still is related to gaming but it is something more creative and you're not glued to a screen. Oh and have been doing more power lifting and yoga. Its been good for my back

[@ianhamilton7908]

Thank you for this video. It's so easy to get sucked into the hustle culture. I once worked for a company that had a core value "indefatigable" - do what it takes to get the job done. It's was so hard to know the difference between doing too much and not living up to the value.

[@HealthyDev]

I learned a new word today! WOW that's incredible to make that a core value. Talk about not understanding human needs... Glad you got out of there Ian.

[@ShaunMcCready]

This talk totally resonates with me! I find that one of big reasons why people do this (and definitely one of mine) is because of the pressure that people in the industry put on each other to know X, Y, and Z language as well as the many tools/frameworks/libraries that are associated with it. Each job description online isn't the same. They all require different combinations of languages, tools and frameworks and we assume that we need to be experts in everything. I also am gaming daily whereas it used to be a once a week thing. Most if not all of my hobbies are in front of a computer or screen. I recently started trying to push my adolescent dreams of doing carpentry and home renovations. Thats something that I can use my hands and get away from being at home all the time. I'm hoping to maybe make it a semi-full time career in the future but as I get older that becomes harder to do. Physical jobs require good healthy bodies.

[@TexasGit]

I have been programming since basic in the 80s and VB in the 90s, and I have 10 years on you. I have mostly programmed as a hobby and I can tell you that it can take over your life even as a hobby. Really, anything you do to excess over anything else can be a problem.

[@TriInfinity]

What really annoyed me with the developer role is really how many meetings you have to take through the day and then after you are exhausted only then start the real work with programming. It is one thing doing a little coding excercise with clear requirements compared to doing all of it at the same time after an exhausting day of bla bla... Also I feel the part about, no other creative stuff is possible after you spend the whole day doing creative stuff. For me it was also hording guitars and bands.

[@TriInfinity]

Now I am a product owner with enough technical background to clearly communicate with the dev team and I can have my evening to me again, hard lesson learned and also no active choice (former PO left)

[@HealthyDev]

@@TriInfinitygood move. Product management is a natural progression for many devs!

[@shrunkensimon]

Same in other industries in the corporate world. Self aggrandizing middle managers, trying to tick off their own boxes and make themselves appear worthwhile, bogart all your time and energy with meetings. Thinking of the microsoft teams/skype incoming call tone makes me shudder and immediately envision a giant "F OFF" in my imagination

[@timamet]

This video is underrated,.thank you

[@HealthyDev]

You're very welcome.

[@patrykx4577]

Im so thankfull for your content. I recover from massive burnout about 2 yeras ago. But to start healing you first has sit down and see current situation. Im glad that i learnt this thing 2 years ago

[@View619]

For gaming in particular, I think being able to get up and take breaks makes a huge difference. When you're just sucked in and ignoring everything, it can become a problem. But when you're constantly getting up to deal with life, it's much easier to remain balanced. Even as someone who essentially has no social life and games predominantly in my free time, that helps a lot. In particular because I used to be very unbalanced in my younger years.

[@HealthyDev]

I had a similar experience. Good thoughts, thanks for sharing!

[@esparda07]

Your employer having control of your life is an excellent take I never really thought about before. It makes complete sense.

[@scvscades]

that part about the career exit plan really hit me granted I’m only 37 but I am totally burnt out on programming and I think moving into something like a BA or PM roll might suit me a lot better. Plus pretty soon I’d like to start my own side hustle/business be consulting or something.

[@comosaycomosah]

dude its so hard to get into now if you arent already working for a good company....worse part is when your learning and not even making no money and constantly being reminded ai will take your job...currently at a point where im comfortable with what i know but know i prolly wont be able to get a job bc my background, no actual experience at a tech company yada yada...lol life

[@rameeziqbal8711]

Try Data Analytics

[@sergeyshevtsov5125]

Thanks for Your talk once again, Jamie. That's really good advises. I will try to apply them to my life, because often i feel that programming really steals life away. It's not a joke or metaphor, literally it steals and i need something to do with it. Nice g&l tele by the way :)

[@HealthyDev]

Thanks! I love this thing! Got it for $275 off craigslist. After I set it up properly, it's one of my favorites for sure.

[@not6793]

Thanks for the video, my experience in my programming career is not as dire as the picture you draw, for me it is mostly my hobby programming and gaming that eats away my life. Honestly I don't see myself quitting programming as a job I don't overwork myself there at all or are pressured to work harder. But I want to exchange hobby programming and gaming with more social hobbies around real people.

[@HealthyDev]

Sounds like a healthy move!

[@EvanLivingstone]

Thank you. This advice is also helpful for the legal profession, which has similar dynamics with high billable hour requirements to succeed. Lawyers are staring at a computer all day long, too.

[@Jono-B]

A very helpful and timely video. Thanks.

[@nuvotion-live]

Programming definitely took over my life in 2023 😬

[@gregroyclark]

Goodness. Thank you so much for this.

[@HealthyDev]

You're so welcome! Glad it helped.

[@watcher1326]

Great content. Lots to think about. Only part I didn't like was the significant amount of terror it brought that I've reached a point of both burnout and poverty. But even that seems like something important to consider.

[@ever.silva7]

I am 40 years old and I reached a time in my life where I felt I was stuck programming with the symptoms you mentioned in the video, some time ago I experienced a psychological breakdown because if this I realized that I was using work as a vice and escape, and in particular I am passionate about creativity and companies exploit this from us. Programming is beautiful don not get me wrong... , bu a great error is that we allow ourselves to be used for money or we fall into it as a vice, we are used frequently as an object, in general this is a cultural problem of any field I believe. It is an imbalance in society, we frequently see it in our surroundings I took a break and now I do things that return me less money as a freelance developer, but I don't miss the tyranny of the vice of the old life at all.

[@jacquesdesmarais3794]

Thank you so much for all the content that you are sharing through this channel. It is helping me tremendously.

[@HealthyDev]

You're so welcome! Awesome to hear.

[@chrishan9138]

Making a lot of money but spending a lot on stuff almost to compensate yourself for the work... yeeeaah, you got me. Not really heard anyone else point that one out.

[@Nunoflashy]

I live paycheck to paycheck and really don't buy anything for myself or have any frivolous expenses...gotta love living and working in Portugal earning 1200€ as a Software Engineer and paying 800€ rent... Still despite that, I do believe it is taking over my life, as I feel like I changed my mindset to prioritize it (and in the process, inform myself that is the only important thing) knowing it's my only way to survive.

[@HealthyDev]

Are you originally from Portugal or did you relocate there from somewhere else? I know several people from the Austin area that moved there recently.

[@Nunoflashy]

​@@HealthyDev Yeah, originally from Portugal. Been working for the better part of 4 years now, and while I like software development (CS in general, really), it is severely underpaid here to the point that it really does demotivate you, the lack of career growth also does not help. For foreigners whose country economy is decent, it can be a great place to live, for working natives, not so much.

[@HealthyDev]

@@Nunoflashyman I'm sorry to hear that. Have you considered trying to get a remote gig?

[@Nunoflashy]

@@HealthyDev Well, my goal was not to make anyone feel sorry for me, it is a bad situation, but I owe it to myself to move to another country, as it is impossible to change the situation of the country, but not impossible to change my situation. I appreciate the understanding though. Yeah, if by remote gig you mean taking on freelance work, I have many times. However, not only are you gonna get punished heavily tax-wise for working a full time job along with something on the side, the clients are also poor, most of them, which means I wouldn't be able to charge much per project (certainly not enough to make it worthwhile). So I dropped that idea. If you meant another full time job but remotely, kind of the same thing applies here: punished heavily tax-wise for working multiple jobs and having income bigger than X (for example if I were to take another 1200€ position, which is probably around 2200€ gross, I would probably only see half of that net since I already have the income from the other job, making it essentially a 600€/mo 9-6 job).

[@HealthyDev]

@@Nunoflashyjust to clarify. What I mean is taking a remote job as your only job. Being an employee for, say an American or British company, but working out of Portugal.

[@iolss]

I think today my problem is more of be working on something I really don't care rather than programming stealing away my life, tbh I'm not even a programmer today, I think I'm in one point of my career and finances that I cannot quit/FIRE but I surely could try to work on something meaningful for me, since I have some investments/emergency fund and I own my home, I think I'm facing 2 problems today: I can't seem to find that meaningful thing working for corpo and keeping a stable paycheck, and second, even if I find it, I'm scared of, yes, programming starting to steal away my life, because in the past it sure did it!

[@Meritumas]

I feel you... I think I have become a YAML farmer and slowly forgot all interesting parts of solving problems using software and hardware...

[@sithishellsing9432]

I cut back to a 4 day work week and I feel so much better every day now that I have enough time to recover from work, I can strongly recommend it

[@HealthyDev]

Nice. Are you still working 8 hour days, or do you do, say 10 per day?

[@henson2k]

Yes, that is real issue

[@MitkoMapping]

If you have to fill out a timesheet anyway, make a daily timesheet app for the work week & fill in actual start & stop time for the week. Then when you hit 40 for the week more or less stop. Go to the gym everyday if possble. Lift weights, run, then do yoga / stretching because like programming you will be super stiff if you dont.

[@blackcitadel37]

i'm considering to change career path to electrical engineering.Programming used to be just a cool hobby i had before i started working as a developer. I have like zero motivation to learn new technologies, frameworks, etc. People use to talk a lot about these new things, video games, etc (especially the trainees) while all i want is just to go home and do my own stuff, reading, music, etc. That and i'm not even an senior dev, just a 2y junior Java dev.

[@petropzqi]

D*mnit I can relate to all of this. I'm 37 years old. I'm well paid and in a future safe industry. My body feels like 60 and from times to times I can't get anything done due to fatigue.

[@HealthyDev]

I'm sorry man...I'm 47 and am recovering. Might as well start now.

[@paulbrown5839]

This is a great video , I for one can vouch that this guy is speaking a lot of truth

[@masterchief5437]

Thanks for sharing this. It reminds me of the Hobbit - "Thorin Oakenshield : [to Bilbo] Farewell, Master Burglar. Go back to your books... and your armchair... plant your trees, watch them grow. If more people... valued home above gold... this world would be a merrier... place.."

[@HealthyDev]

Haha! Awesome quote! Nice.

[@jochemcode4570]

Thank you a lot ❤

[@redguard128]

I've been in a relationship for more than 10 years, have a kid and if I could go back to programming and playing games all day I would do it in a heartbeat. The thing is I always coded and played video games ever since I was 5 years old. And have to interacted with people? All they do is talk about shows on TV or who said something or did some random thing. There is no new information, no progress, no curiosity about anything, just hours and hours of words with no value. And my kid, just plays dress-up with dolls. When I was her age I was begging for someone to teach me about electronics, TVs, cassettes, pick-ups/vinyl, radio communication or computers. But every adult around me either didn't know or they were busy with their non-technical (and inefficient) way of life.

[@HealthyDev]

Considering your background, I guess I can see this. It sounds like you never learned how to enjoy social time with people that isn't tied to technology. If your kid plays dress-up with dolls, I'm guessing they are a girl? If so, you may have heard women are more interested in people, men are more interested in things. That's a bit of a generalization, and it's not that they aren't both interested in people and things - just which statistically is their primary focus. I'd say I've found that to be fairly true in my experience. If you do have a daughter, I can tell you from experience, she needs you to spend time with her. Otherwise she won't learn how to form a healthy relationship with a man someday. She'll only go for men who can't relate to her, be miserable, and possibly have some mental or addictive challenges. Something to think about, even if you don't find value in non-technical interactions.

[@monad_tcp]

I started programming when I was 15, now 20 years later, I quit my last job by the end of 2018 and went into a sabbatical, then that 2019 thing happened, then I went into consulting (this channel helped me a lot). I used to have gaming as an intermittent hobby over those years. Maybe I should start a family and put that as priority. I kind of regret only doing programming and not doing the other things in life, even gaming. So much to catch up. Maybe striking a balance of the things is the way.

[@raccoons_stole_my_account]

>And my kid, just plays dress-up with dolls what do you want them to do, talk about compilers? jesus man

[@scsft]

The first thing I tell people when they want to start their own company is that they should read two books. The first is Rolf Dobelli's "The Art of Thinking Clearly" and they should read it from cover to cover before they make any decision (even the one like quitting their current terrible job). I also tell them that they could listen to the audiobook version, but that the actual "reading" part is important, because if you start out on your own, there's a lot of reading you'll have to do. The second book I refer them to, is a 600 page book in my native language of which the title translates to: "Business administration the basics". If you can't make it through those two books you should not start your own business, because those two books are sobering and will show you the most common pitfalls and how hard it is to actually pull it off.

[@diego0ji]

Are you still working as SW? I left this role for what you said, I started to forget how life really is and get bad with my girlfriend and health. Now I do a normal job, back in hospitality and I get better. I'm still coding but for my stuff. Thanks for your videos

[@HealthyDev]

I'm doing software part time, and career coaching part time.

[@SynthAir]

I'm a programmer but I want to run a business. I know that can be harder than programming, but that's fine--I know it's what I want to do. That being said, working full time as a programmer, and trying to build a business after work, is difficult, and trying to have any social life, in addition to healthy habits like going to the gym or walking my dog, become extremely difficult to maintain while making meaningful progress and not burning myself out. I do wonder if anyone else has any advice for walking this path.

[@Meritumas]

Doing the same. I have started last year. It's extremely hard meaning you have to plan every single minute of your day. Setting up priorities is key. What helps me is the book "13 weeks year" and few others about priorities. Rest is a part of hard work!

[@eightsprites]

Tried to create software on the side. Its hard. I didn’t manage it.. just not enough time. My solution was to grind and invest.. until I had enough to take a break from working.

[@manishm9478]

I'm planning something similar. Currently looking for a non programming job, even if it comes with a pay cut, so that i don't mind sitting behind a computer in the evenings.

[@jameslay6505]

Use your technical expertise to delegate.

[@zaakzaakk3280]

I really recognised a lot from this video. But I don't even have a programming job

[@df-hh7yd]

Thanks for spreading your knowledge and experience

[@f4bglv]

If you‘r thinking about switching career, consider the movie industry. Seriously man, ur voice has a very special sound

[@HealthyDev]

Ha! Thanks, I guess? I've never heard that before.

[@JunYamog]

Thanks for this, just like you I am trying to figure things out. I also decided to put more time and effort on my personal life an about a decade ago. That got it a lot better and pretty happy where my personal life is. However I didn’t realize that I didn’t have an exit strategy, I am fairly ok in my career but there is no what’s next other than what’s next in terms of tech. I am not getting younger and I have worked a lot made my managers/business owners successful… but I am still working I need to figure out how use my skills for myself or a small group of business partners.

[@dadlord689]

It feela like it would make sence if programming let you own some product after a year of work that would now become your stable passive income and was truly a program and not a thing that needs more work everyday - then it would make sense to push. And your subconscious mind knows it, that's why you feel lazy. And so maybe good salary is pushing you well enough to catch on the stimulators train hacking yourself well enough. But now we getting in a real gray zone where code just equals money and not self realization (fully, partially or even at all). And so programming is a perfect way to actually waste your life silently without disturbing subconscious mind (with all those billions of it's cells and centuries of ancestors legacy). At some point I just stopped even hoping to feel that feeling of true calmness and wellness. But! It has a clear, sharp and well textured flavor of worry that comes with different flavors of doom. My favorite one is the one that has an aftertaste of high ambitious - together with stress they are truly taking it to the next level, making you realize "yep, this is the madness area". But the shame of thinking that it's just me has never let me down! It even helped me to walk the rode of hell almost for free (like 300$ a month). But, as always, it breaks or makes you stronger. The only catch is that you'll never know until it is probably too late.

[@jloiterer]

I find one thing people don't realize about being a programmer is that there will be pressure and deadlines, and sometimes the ways in which people try to cope with it (alcohol, drugs, etc...) is deleterious to their lives. This is true for most programming jobs I've had and I've never worked for any FAANG companies. On top of the deadlines and pressure if you stay somewhere 10 years and don't spend your little free time (after work and lots of unpaid overtime) studying and trying to skill up you can end up obsolete. So yeah.... it's great money... but it isn't anywhere close to easy money....

[@genericdeveloper3966]

Personally I blame the covid era. It felt like falling into a time warp. But programming is part of that.

[@Laughbankrip]

Totally agree, naturally, SWEs became more productive and efficient.

[@jaaguitar]

Family Time seems to be everyone on their individual phones. Dont think it's very easy to get away these days.

[@HealthyDev]

We've been fighting this for a decade. We do really well for a while, then slip back up. Do really well for a while, then slip up. In general though I think we're all learning how damaging too much screen time is. The tough thing is that our jobs are tied to it. So we need to use them to work, but we try to find things off the computer for more of the rest of our life. I got into gardening, cycling, woodworking (and of course I do music) as enjoyable activities coming out of my latest burnout 6 years ago. Definitely helped a ton with my peace of mind.

[@aaronvancuren7946]

I would actually love it if you dove deeper into what you do for personal budgeting. I’m currently using excel.

[@nikolaybilov9539]

My obsession in my carrier at least last seven years is doing something for my personal everyday usage. I like to do something to reduce many routine operations especially when they have lagging. I almost every time do it such way that not only me but everyone can use them even in the same time with me. But nobody except me is interested in that. Often i end up spending on such kind improvement absolutely disproportionate amount time and efforts, maybe more than the function i have improved could consume without any improvement in sum for ten years. When our bosses decided to change something for infrastructure which conflicts with some of my this stuff it became a personal grudge for me, and it probably exceed a rational level. Probably this made a major contribution to me being fired from my last work, and my heavy burn out for last at least two years.

[@nikolaybilov9539]

When I was going to find a new work i made a promise to myself that on on new place I will work with in their constraints and will not treat my work place as my private space. But I am afraid I gradually turned on that path again. Just before new year i did a lot for program entering my password for opening main project. My justification was that it is anyway a waste time before holidays and I am only making use of it and improving my emotional filling against an outbreak of all their weird and irrational customs in this last day. I hope i will set this development on a deep pause after beginning of a work and will only use it's result

[@devinersoy]

Thank you for the video. Just one question: don't you need to work really hard in your 20s to be in the position to be able to relax later on? I say this in the context of the job market, which has been brutal to enter right now, along with the AI improvements knocking out entry level jobs.

[@HealthyDev]

I think a 40 hour a week job provides enough opportunities for growth to be successful. You don't need to burn yourself out learning stuff outside the job. Especially when you're young - there's so much new during the day that tutorials and side projects can't teach you! YMMV

[@vitalyl1327]

Working hard is the sure way to be less productive than those who work chill. And it is your productivity that determines your career, not your perceived effort or hours wasted.

[@TON-vz3pe]

You won't become rich through hard work. If hard work is all that is needed then I believe there are billions of people who work so hard but never climb the ladder. What you really need is luck and smart

[@SudipBhattacharyya]

I am programming for 32 years and I am 10 years older than you. Now, I am feeling burnt out. Do you have any suggestion for me? BTW, once I had photography as a hobby, but now I can't take good photos any more ;-)

[@Zutraxi]

It's just hard to find the magical balance. You need to know everything to get there. At the same time if you practice balance then others will just steam ahead. The luxury of having experience often clouds these types arguments for me. So the tech industry in general needs to evolve and become more blue collar if you ask me. You don't expect people who take care of the elderly to go home and learn the latest about how you help them go to bed. No the employeer have to pay for that.