Intel's weapon against motherboard companies... will it work?

As you can imagine, everyone is pretty concerned about the next generation of Intel CPUs given the way things turned out for 13th and 14th gen CPUs... so what is Intel doing to keep this from happening again?! Let's talk about DLVR...
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[@scott-982]

I dislike the narrative that the motherboard vendors were the only problem. The 13th and 14th gen CPUs have a voltage table and Intel pushed the 1 and 2 core values too high in microcode. All so they could have reviews with improved gaming benchmarks.

[@SianaGearz]

To me "Mainboard vendors problem" is Intel's deflection pure and simple because Supermicro and HP/Dell boards were eating CPUs just the same. That's a bunch of companies that do not chase benchmarks, they follow implementer's guide as exactly as possible, because in their business fields, 5% less performance is fine, but 2% higher field failure rate is a seismic disaster.

[@AntoineFinch]

Intel will never admit fault throw the motherboard vendors under the bus instead! reviewers will tote Intel water on this!

[@josearqco]

​@@AntoineFinch I would like to hear what motherboard sellers/makers have to say about it all!

[@AntoineFinch]

@@josearqco me too

[@AntoineFinch]

amen

[@RadialSeeker113]

You also didnt mention that even at the 125w profile due to microcode errors it caused the voltage to shoot up to over 1.6v . It was not just the board vendors. Intels own voltage curve was borked. Intel reps somehow gaslit you into believing it was the motherboard vendors only.

[@TTM1895]

Those of us who are wise to which channels to follow know that it was the microcode asking for all the power and the motherboard says, okay I'll give it to you.

[@charlestrudel8308]

actually, jayz found the motherboard vendor doing bad stuff like 2 years ago, hence why he mention all of this in this angle, but indeed, intel also did an oopsie here.

[@ChrisM541]

This whole mess was because Intel deliberately unshackled the built-in CPU safety limits, and in doing so, they literally encouraged motherboard vendors to overclock the CPU beyond the safety limits. This was never a motherboard manufacturer problem. Intel gambled and lost.

[@peterwstacey]

Indeed - this was a bug in the microcode where the CPU would request an unhealthy voltage, and the motherboard BIOS would happily give it. Intel have identified *most* of the causes for the microcode bug, but the BIOS should never have allowed it through anyway, and that doorway is firmly closed from now on (as always, never trust what companies say, let's wait for independent testing)

[@peterwstacey]

@@ChrisM541 Yes, they should definitely have tied down the motherboard manufacturers and enforced stock profiles. I agree that it's Intel's fault, but the motherboard manufacturers should also have been better behaved. Everyone was chasing AMD at that point, and Intel should have just acknowledged defeat and not pushed so hard

[@MeatNinja]

Back when I bought my 8700k, I didn't even consider Ryzen. Now I'm getting a 9800x3d and I'm not even considering Intel. Something about turntables.

[@germang.4514]

It is not only the fault of the motherboard manufacturers, I remember a video GN made in conjunction with Level1 Techs where they commented that 50% of Intel CPUs failed in game servers where the CPUs had never been run at high voltage or wattage, in other words CPUs that were never overclocked.

[@ghomerhust]

i saw that same report. many of the boards were supermicro that had no overvolting or overclocking available in the bios at all. they didnt boost or anything, just fixed numbers. and the chips failed WAY more often than the comparable amd setups they were also testing

[@rluker5344]

They did have high voltage. The VRM configuration necessitated it, particularly in single core loads. The more vdroop, the higher the single core load shoots up so long as the all core load is stable. As an example: A CPU is stable running CB at X volts. If there is a lot of vdroop because of the VRM configuration and LLC settings then the default voltage has to run at vdroop+needed volts. If there is less vdroop then less total volts are needed at single core loads. Level 1 Techs motherboards had bad VRMs for 2010 era 84 watt motherboards, much less CPUs that could swalllow 300w for almost no reason. Those mobos had a ton of vdroop and I bet those CPUs were getting over 1.6v all the time in single core uses, but Wendel is not the type of tech to show that data.

[@PREDATEURLT]

If that won't make a difference intel wont bother changing it.

[@zodwraith5745]

@@ghomerhust Not, I'm pretty sure Wendell's initial video said most of those servers were Asus with Supermicro as well. Intel is far from innocent, but when Asus was the main killer of these i9s on both server and consumer side you can't ignore that. I find it really odd that everyone knows how shady Asus is and it's been well documented, but hory sheet do they hate Intel more and they'll defend Asus if they can bash Intel. I hate Intel as much as anyone and this was a major f*ckup, but there's been a solid amount of witch hunt going on with this as well. When you've got clowns claiming 20%, 50%, even one clown claiming 99% failure rate, you _know_ that's bullshit.

[@zodwraith5745]

He never said it was only the motherboard makers' fault.

[@802Garage]

This is all good, but def important to remember motherboard companies were doing whatever for decades and we almost never had these issues. This was still on Intel at the end of the chain of failure. Just want to mention that so the buck doesn't get passed too much.

[@itsprod.472]

This is true, that a Intel failure let all of us know and see how little control Intel had over voltage controls on motherboards

[@JustSomeGuy009]

Microcode controls caused issues, but those issues would have never been seen if motherboards weren't allowed free reign. It's not that difficult too understand.

[@TheRealAncientGamer]

the same thing happened with AMD, remember the AMD CPU's exploding last year... or is that not convenient for your argument?...

[@802Garage]

@@JustSomeGuy009 This is incorrect. The issues happen even on boards which use stock Intel profiles and when people make sure they apply stock Intel values. They were just accelerated by board partners raising limits and the CPU allowing it.

[@802Garage]

@@TheRealAncientGamer The causes there were slightly different, the fix was much easier, and it affected a very select few high performance chips. The Intel issue is far more widespread, was happening regardless of board settings, and was a much more difficult and drawn out fix. Not saying it never happens period, but numbers wise there is no comparison here.

[@Perrajajaja]

I don't agree with your take here Jay. It sounds like the board partners are at fault for Intel's issues. It is actually Intel who basically pushed them to compete in that way. And the board partners ofcourse had to, otherwise the reviews would show the other boards are faster. Intel set this whole thing like this, and they got the profit from it for many years (because the cpus performed better with the board partners settings). They also used benchmarks with board partner settings to showcase how fast the cpus were.

[@zf9903]

Nah, Jay. Mobo venders were A problem, but the real issue is Intel’s own microcode allowed their CPU’s to ask for voltages that excessive to begin with. Corpo spent weeks concocting funny power mode graphs, pointing fingers and covering their faults up, and it worked on you. Everyone is to blame, but it’s MOSTLY Intel here.

[@Fr33rad1ca2]

It's both that is what I heard. It's Intel's fault they let it happen and need to fix it sooner than later. If you use to much V you will kill it sooner than later. True for all processors.

[@user-ev8vh3hp6n]

Yeah and then the mobo vendors made biosrd/motherboard that just happily provided it. This shouldn't happen unless you as a user chose so in the bios

[@jabronilifestyle]

That and the ICC/Ringbus for 13/14th gen is the exact same one from 12th gen and per the Designers of 12th gen "ICC/Ringbus is already maxed out". 13/14th gen = 12th gen with extra e-cores and higher voltages/wattages. I wonder why that's a problem??

[@ReynaMirez]

ok, whatever you say, GayMD fanboy

[@jabronilifestyle]

@@ReynaMirez you're being weird.

[@petrescuserban983]

Sounds to me like Intel is trying to shift the blame. How come these issues were not in 12th gen?

[@sathos]

Quite simply because 12th was a different chip series. Although using the same socket and compatible with bios updates etc 12th was a different overall architecture and code setup to 13th and 14th which are both essentially the same chips

[@blackbirdpctech]

It’s funny how Intel never had a problem with motherboard manufacturers increasing the power profiles for years because it helped them sell their CPU’s at unrealistic performance numbers. This is not a motherboard manufacturer issue, it has always been an Intel issue.

[@blackbirdpctech]

@HyperionZero congrats however intel could have mandated those changes but they chose not to, because it helped them sell their faulty product.

[@georgejones5019]

​@HyperionZero Intel purposefully withheld power limit specs, so the motherboard manufacturers had it reference the microcode for power. Which then said use all of it, beyond safety limits.

[@Xirpzy]

Intel problem when amd has the exact same. You amd fanboys are crazy

[@HunterTracks]

​​@@XirpzyAMD had that problem with _one_ CPU model and _one_ motherboard vendor. Intel has this problem with _all_ motherboard vendors and _every CPU model that consumes over 65W._ Sounds like the problems were actually quite different if you ask me.

[@jonathansaraco]

Why is it funny? If it wasn't causing CPUs to degrade quicker in previous gens, why would Intel ever have a problem with manufacturers doing it? It wasn't a problem until now...

[@RetroNook]

Who else watched the screen saver?

[@ernies8828]

Stop drinking.

[@humzahrashid6736]

@@ernies8828 Drinking what?

[@stephanschmidt2334]

ME

[@WillPlaysGames1993]

its a wallpaper from wallpaper engine id love to have it since it looks pretty neat

[@MidnightToker24]

I thought you were talking about the show with Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton.

[@dartimon6941]

Yesterday, the local branch of a chain shop was running a promotion, you could get a 14700KF for $300 (tax included, it's in Europe). I decided to give it a try and see what happens. The first processor was DOA and was replaced under warranty the same day with another one from the same batch. The second one even worked for a while but was so unstable that it still caused BSODs, going to RMA it tomorrow. I can safely say that my credit of trust in Intel has been exhausted, and that for my next upgrade I will buy an AMD processor. Edit: Forgot to mention that all of this happened with an updated BIOS, with Intel's "Performance Mode" enabled by default.

[@MariuszChr]

Interesting. I got deal on 14700k, just made update right after build and its fine. Knock on wood.

[@outsidethepyramid]

@dartimon6941 you went to the shop twice and built a pc and installed two processors and did all that in just one day, and then came to this channel just to write about it? You're lying. you're brainwashed

[@dartimon6941]

​@@outsidethepyramid Saw the video and decided to share my experience. Also I can prove everything because I haven't returned the processor yet and I have all the documents in hand. And also a reminder, I live within the EU, so take into account the time zone difference. And yes, twice, considering that I live almost in the city centre and it only takes me 10 minutes by bus and a few minutes on foot to get to the shop. Once in the morning to get there on time, because it was a limited quantity offer, and only if you came in person. And the second time in the evening to replace it under warranty when I realised I was "beating a dead horse". And I didn't write that I built the PC the same day. I already have a flawlessly working one with an i5 12600K, which I replaced with an i7 14700KF and did some tests.

[@dartimon6941]

​@@MariuszChr Was it bought at X-KOM on 19.10.2024 in Szczecin by any chance? It would be very funny if it was and I was lucky enough to get a bad one twice.

[@MariuszChr]

@@dartimon6941 nope, it was in Microcenter in Michigan in August

[@wasd____]

Don't let Intel gaslight us into thinking this was just a "motherboard vendor problem." Intel owns the engineering of the CPUs and how much power they let them draw. Board vendors wouldn't have been incentivized to compete in ways that led to burning up and destabilizing CPUs if Intel hadn't enabled them to do so in ways that incentivized that kind of dangerous envelope-pushing. "More stringent motherboard oversight" is all well and good, but Intel put board partners in that position in the first place. Don't let them off the hook.

[@jabronilifestyle]

This. Intels own designers admitted their ICC/Ringbus was at limit and could not support any more e-cores or voltage/heat. 13/14th gen literally did that which is how they were able to rush them out so fast.

[@jabronilifestyle]

@@bearde_mut9731 he didn't exactly solidify the opposite either

[@zodwraith5745]

@@bearde_mut9731 Yeah there's like 50 comments of idiots putting words in Jay's mouth he never said. They have such an irrational hatred of Intel that they're defending Asus of all shitty companies. 🤪🤪

[@jabronilifestyle]

@@bearde_mut9731 give me a timestamp of what he said that was so cut and dry pls

[@jabronilifestyle]

@@bearde_mut9731 "He didn't say any such thing in this video, stop gaslighting people." - you All done, or...?

[@intermarer9145]

What's all this talk of motherboard vendors? Intel could just dictate the limits. And in the end it was the CPU's asking for the too-high-voltage anyway, no?

[@bluexeyedxpassion]

@@intermarer9145 lmfao keep thinking its intel. intel TRUSTED AIB's, and they disobeyed. now intel has to fix AIB problems, not intel problems.

[@bzdtemp]

Intel lost me when they started doing "generations" that were more like facelifts and you also needed new motherboards like every other "generation". That and their pricing taking advantage of there being little competition, to me that just showed greed - something illustrated that when AMD was competitive again Intel lowered their prices 40-50% and pushed OEM in all sort of ways to keep AMD out (look up Intel anti-trust fines). The recent quality issues and frankly them doing all sorts to up core count, using extreme amounts of power and so, to try and look good on the boxes rather than really delivering has not made me consider Intel again. Intel is a sick giant gorilla and those should be put to sleep.

[@MrTweetyhack]

every company does that. what do you think the games that are exclusive to Playstation or XBox are?

[@idahofur]

I'm sure I have posted this before. My experience with other brands than Intel processors sucked. Now don't get me wrong. I loved the 486DLC-40. I also ran a Cyrix PR-233 processor at home. After going back and looking the early processors. I was able to get a better understanding of what was going on. Got to love those You tube videos. One example was something I know about. But, not really sure why was having a problem. Saving money on a system build. Save $30.00 on the Super Socket 7 Board and $30.00 on a Non Intel processor. That a good chunk of change. Client would have all sorts of strange issues. Change to a higher end Super Socket 7 with a different chipset and say high quality cpu fan. Problems all go away. Might have been different if large companies like Dell pushed out Amd systems at large scale. Any issues probably would have been resolved asap.

[@FUCKEU78]

Yeah, i stopped buying Intel processors a long time ago, this and the snakeoil was just another nail the coffin.

[@tgdm]

​@@baronvonslambert I believe you mean 8th gen for when they started homogenizing the architectures. PS3 and 360 were 7th gen.

[@funtik0609]

but AMD is doing almost the same thing right now. I'm pretty sure they will sell us 8/16 CPUs for the next 6 years if Intel will wouldn't be able to compete. AMD is just like Intel, another greedy company.

[@kaseyboles30]

The warmer room temps of those e-cafe's may play a role, but humidity only matters if you're using evaporative cooling with water, which I've not seen in the wild, and certainly wouldn't expect in an e-cafe.

[@meeponinthbit3466]

Humid air's thermal capacity is significantly higher than dry air. It's why deserts get cold so quickly at night. A humid cafe may run warmer, but that warm will be a more stable temperature since it takes more energy to move the temp up or down a degree. I doubt it matters for their testing. This would be a concern when testing heatsink coolers

[@mytech6779]

​@@meeponinthbit3466 The thermal capacity of humid air isn't substantially higher. Aside from the effect on cloud formation it has very little to do with deserts getting cold at night, that is a matter of black-body radiation which is mainly controlled by clouds and dust/haze. From extremes of 9% and 90% relative humidity the specific heat capacity increases about 8% (7% at 40⁰c and 11% at 10⁰c, down to 0.5% at 1⁰c) meaning high humidity air will convect away slightly more heat compared to dry air. Water vapor is also somewhat more conductive than dry air due to the higher mean speed of the lower mass gas particles, but this is only significant at extremely warm temperatures or high altitudes due to the low vapor pressure of water relative to standard atmosphere.

[@veraxis9961]

Humidity may not matter for temperature purposes as much as for oxidation/corrosion purposes. The combination of high temperatures/humidity for prolonged periods can wreak havoc on electronics, so it is often used as a proxy for testing how electronics will age long-term at more normal conditions. Is very common to do accelerated life testing in temperature/humidity chambers in a controlled lab setting, and I would assume Intel and everyone else is already doing testing like this. Maybe the e-cafes are just a bit of extra real-world data, but I would not consider that controlled enough on its own for real validation testing.

[@mytech6779]

@@veraxis9961 Humidity is only a factor in storage. In use the electronics are always warmer than the air so there is no condensation or rise in oxidation. Now if they are at the beach the chloride in the air could cause some accelerated corrosion. especially if shutdown overnight allowing even the slightest condensation.

[@joserosa5342]

When a company wont ackknowledge their own mistake, then that company is not trustwhorty.

[@markh4750]

The funny thing is that Intel has already admitted that their microcode is the problem, but of course they still took a swipe at their partners. Jay, however, is too far in the bag to do anything other than gaslight his viewers.

[@JuraIbis]

I was always told that a device "draws" as much power as it needs, it's not "fed" power. If I plug a 240W power cord into my laptop, it will not shoot 240W into the laptop if the laptop doesn't need anything above 60W. CPUs should just shut down when power exceeds safe settings, the same way connectors on motherboards now are not symmetrical so they can be plugged backwards. This is 100% an oversight and almost a manufacturing fault.

[@ChrisM541]

100% correct. Intel unshackled the built-in CPU safety limits, limits that are designed to combat unsafe overclocking/BIOS settings. Intel gambled and lost. Intel now wants to (wrongly) blame MB vendors. In the end, this is Intel's fault...and only Intel.

[@NAMOR5000]

@Juralbis, what about power spikes when the voltage gets over 5% or more fed to your home equipment? Same thing and worse goes for electronics. These would not have been issue if the recommended voltages were followed, but they did open the gates, *pun* and what did happen. To use another analogy, if you feed a CAR what is it called again nitro, it will boost power, you feed it that much for too long you blow up your engine lol. In this care what your threw in here doesn't go as an comparison. know your stuff lol 😎🤛

[@HunterTracks]

​@@NAMOR5000Every part of the system is usually specifically designed to avoid failure due to voltage spikes, not just the mobo. Iirc, GPUs and CPU sockets have built-in capacitors to soak up the extra power if it's coming in way too fast, which will break the current flow when overloaded. Truth is, the voltages given were within the CPU's safety spec.

[@deathventure]

@@NAMOR5000 Voltage is a different beast than current, even if they are directly related to each other. Current is NOT fed, as the OP said, but voltage is. The device uses as much as it uses as far as current is concerned, and voltage is regulated according to several factors. As far as what Intel recommended, they obfuscated it enough that there wasn't a fully understood standard. For instance, when I choose a component part for a circuit I'm designing, I look at the datasheet and it will list directly in a spreadsheet table exactly what the current and voltage limits are (say for a microcontroller it's minimum 3.1v and 250mA while the max is 3.5v and 650mA. I cannot control the current pulled by the microcontroller, and I regulate the voltage because it says I should not go over 3.5v). However, with this being a 2 sided issue, the cpu can request a voltage variable, and the motherboard can give it a variable voltage. Had Intel gave datasheet specs that said MAX INPUT VOLTAGE 1.6V, then the motherboard manufacturers would have put that software defined limit in place. Intel also apparently didn't put that software defined limit into the cpu, thus the issue. It was an issue on both sides, and Intel tried to throw everybody else under the bus, without acknowledging that it was their problem first. Edit: addition, let's put it into similar terms with a vehicle. The engine and ECM would be the processor. The fuel pump and various other systems would be the motherboard and the rest of the pc. The fuel pump (voltage delivery) does have it's own hard limits, but control is by the ECM and calculations it uses based on information it received from the various sensors (like oxygen sensors). If the calculations in the ECM (microcode) are off, or can be thrown into a runaway situation, the ECM will tell the fuel pump to send more or less fuel because the engine needs it, even though it actually doesn't, and cause either running issues, or the engine to self destruct. The fuel pump itself can be specified to only deliver a maximum of so much fuel it can throughput, but again, final control is by the ECM and if the ECM is telling it to give the engine all this fuel or not enough fuel, there's not much the pump can do but listen to the ECM until it's own minimums or maximums are reached.

[@TurboLoveTrain]

It has more to do with the bus clock than the CPU. When you increase the voltage to a timing crystal it outputs a higher frequency (increased timing). The increased power consumption of the CPU is a result of increased operating frequencies resulting from a clock speed increase from increased voltage.

[@Nh_audios]

I don’t think you are seeing the whole story with the voltage, cpus in servers with low limits were dying. There’s also the fact that the microcode is an intel problem and it was calling for extreme voltage because of an Intel error.

[@kayakMike1000]

This iFix it ad is still hilarious... The minnow!

[@Dingbat1967]

*Ding!*

[@DarknessSwordmaster]

EVEN MORE EXPLOSIONS!

[@alkohallick2901]

Is it?

[@bradhaines3142]

reminds me of mr torgue

[@scootersfrog]

other than the inventory line

[@bobbym6130]

To me the issue is just the default. I put a 13700k in a new mobo and noticed a lot of thermal throttling. I thought i did something wrong with my AIO. A long rabbit hole for someone who didn't realize the default unlimited power settings were not good.

[@ventsid5963]

Did you place one of those thermalright or grizzly frames or you used the motherboard frame. I built mine on thermalright frame and b660 tomahawk board and temperatures doesn't reach 40C

[@ZombieLincoln666]

Yeah a lot of motherboards automatically set power to unlimited when you use AIO headers

[@ligerstripe99]

To sum the video up. "intel blaming motherboard manufactures for their own defects."

[@petrescuserban983]

That is exactly what this is!

[@ligerstripe99]

@@petrescuserban983 Yup, and then they go all nvidia and attack their board partners. At a time when they need all the help they can get. I foresee many mb manufacturers pivoting over to amd over intel. Cause this kills one of the 'very' few ways they can differentiate themselves in the market.

[@JS-wl3gi]

Intel had years, decades, massive budgets to know the heat and environment that degrades and crashes silicon. Over voltage to a breaking point should never happen by itself in a game, server, extra. Hope they learn a hard lesson, its hard to develop a system yet you feel the idiot level is still too high with them. They need to slow down and support there products over a longer period and rebuild trust. If your rig and server are running for years on end and you perceive the value then your next build will be what ever served the intended purpose. Intel just does not have that right now.

[@thehavok4258]

This issue is 100% the board partners. Intel has zero control over what voltage went to the CPU's. They took advantage to Intels durability and thermal ability, which is vastly better than AMD's. ps, I own 10 grand worth in AMD equipment. AMD sucks, for anything other than mining. Intel is superior in quality, stability, daily use, gaming, latency, longevity, literally everything else other than mining.

[@HunterTracks]

@@thehavok4258 "Intel has zero control over what voltage went to the CPUs" What do you think a voltage controller in a CPU is for? The CPU voltage controller was requesting excessive voltages which ended up frying the ring bus, and the motherboards provided it because, according to Intel's power spec (or, in many cases, lack thereof), said voltages were perfectly fine and safe. If it was only a mobo issue Intel wouldn't need to release microcode updates and game server CPUs (which are typically run at low power) wouldn't end up failing at nearly the same rate.

[@thehavok4258]

@@HunterTracks The CPU doesn't ask for anything... That's not how electricity or CPU's work. Mobos were overriding Intels safety features. Everyone knew this when 12th gen launched. The fanboys are so desperate for Intel to be wrong here because AMD has been such buggy trash since day 1 ryzen.

[@thehavok4258]

@@HunterTracks Idk where my comment went to you. But day 1 12th gen, everyone pointed out how some of the mobo venders were ignoring and overriding intel's safety measures and pushing way too much power to the CPU's for too long. Every youtuber pointed this out long before it became a problem. Then it became a problem like a year and a half / 2 years later. No one said "the micro code is asking for too much power" lol. This is the fault of the boards. The only fault from Intel is not telling the board vendors to stop shitting the bed. Which should have been done ages ago, all boards are literal trash for top dollar.

[@HunterTracks]

@@thehavok4258 First, 12th gen is not affected by this issue, only 13th and 14th gen are. Second, maybe try addressing what I actually wrote? Why would Intel need to release microcode fixes if the microcode worked correctly? Why would server CPUs that were fed low power be affected if the issue was only about how much power the mobo fed to the CPU? P. S. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and the issue was entirely on the board partners. It sure sucks that, for whatever reason, Intel doesn't perform any certification on partner boards, like, say, AMD does.

[@johnscaramis2515]

3:50 that was not only the MB manufacturers fault. Intel themselves obviously did not know what their own profiles look like and updated the requirements several times. And generally speaking: MB manufacturers had their fair share on the issue and surely made the issue worse, but in the end it was Intel's algorithm that did the damage. Unfortunately again one of Jay's typical videos: much opinion, facts... not so much.

[@OTechnology]

Just to correct you FIVR only existed on desktop for Haswell and Broadwell on Z87/Z97. After that it went back to using voltage regulators on the motherboard. There is no FIVR on LGA1700.

[@Filmmaker809]

Intel are a global corporation and with any massive company they will try to protect their own interests. Its disgusting how they blamed the Motherboard companies for their own mistakes for the 13th and 14th gen CPU's.

[@lostMAYHEM]

Sounds like the partners are being blamed once again.... how are any of us supposed to trust them when they just can not seem to take responsibility? Mui Loco

[@Sgt_SealCluber]

So is Intel making an actual "spec" now and ditching their impossible to follow "guidelines"? (Edit) Nope, sounds like they're making more work for themselves, to not admit fault, by spending resources to control mobo vendors instead of just fixing their convoluted and contradictory "power profiles".

[@sirmonkey1985]

they're basically doing what AMD already does but putting a flashy branding name on it to sell it as a "feature" to consumers.. AMD already hardlocks vendors out of modifying AMD's default settings since day 1 of ryzen. the only way they can adjust it is with the reported voltage at a controller level.

[@cgstever91]

I know there were a lot of problems with intel 14th gen CPUs in the server space that were not running with the same types of power profiles that consumer motherboards used. And I have had my 5950x for at least two years now with all of the limits removed and it’s still running with no issues whatsoever.

[@SpicyEvo]

Same with my 2700x, 5600x, and 5900x. My 5900x just long in the tooth and limiting my 7900xtx. So just waiting on 9800x3d since 7800x3d is unobtainium

[@Good_Gravy]

New office is going up fast! Glad you guys have a new space for bigger and better shenanigans

[@johnt.848]

Intel is stepping up control over motherboard vendors, not because they care about the end user, but because they care about profits and their liability. Their reputation was flushed the moment this degradation issue appeared.

[@88porpoise]

That is literally how a free market is supposed to work. No company cares about the end user beyond the potential profits from that end user and their impact on other potential customers.

[@chunk3875]

Nobody should be blamed for this besides Intel.

[@liveyourdreammedia]

So because of Intel's incompetence, they will be punishing board manufacturers, and with that the end user. Isn't that some low level market manipulation? If o was a board manufacturer i would ditch intel. They never take responsibility for their own f ups.

[@audiodemos2579]

All good except this wasn't really a mother board problem but a microcode defect.

[@ole7736]

As if it wasn't Intel's fault that this whole instability issue arose. If a chip maker isn't enforcing their specs, or even defining them in a stringent and concise way, this is what you get. Plus, the actual core of the issue was those CPUs requesting more voltage than healthy in various situations including low load and high temps.

[@VarriskKhanaar]

At least 2-3 generations before I even look at Intel again.. Luckily, I have the 7800X3D and really don't need more for the foreseeable future.

[@SpicyEvo]

Lucky I missed out by getting the motherboard first instead of the cpu before they stopped production

[@Montisaquadeis]

I have a 5800x3d and don't plan on upgrading away from it for like 10 years or so unless something like Citiews Skylines 3 or another simulator forces me to

[@XXxBRSAxXX]

@@Montisaquadeis I have the same cpu now and I'm not planning on changing it for at least 7 years. My old i5 3570k lasted 11 years up until a couple of months so yeah

[@Montisaquadeis]

@@XXxBRSAxXX DUDE are we the same person? I upgraded from the i5 3570k to Ryzen at about 10 years myself lol

[@heezflash]

O had 4770k and now 5800x3d ita very good for most games 😊

[@peterstainburn2871]

This was all a big intel problem. 1. Intel wasn’t bothered what motherboard vendors did until the issues made news. On the other hand, motherboard vendors actually said that AMD oversaw everything that the AM4/5 boards could do. That’s why when the 7700x3D issue happened, AMD immediately held their hands up and took the blame and issued replacements. Intel blamed the motherboard vendors first. 2. When Intel forced Intel profiles on all boards it took so long because Intel’s guidance on its different profiles was so hard to interpret leading to massive differences between boards.

[@Punisher9419]

10-15 year old systems. Still running my 5820k at 4.2Ghz at 1.255v.

[@thestig007]

Up until about 2 years ago, I had an i7 930 running with a slight overclock still. That CPU came out in 2010... I bet it would still work if I fired it up today.

[@Xenoray1]

god damn you must have hard bottleneck

[@peterwstacey]

Still running my Pentium 4 with a whole 512MB RAM and a GeForce 6200 AGP on Windows 98, it plays GTA 3 and Civilization II perfectly 😀

[@ChrisM541]

@@Xenoray1 Not as much as you think! Too many folk upgrade every on release...needlessly.

[@NAMOR5000]

@@ChrisM541 That is to each its own. For normal users, yes, but for DIY and enthusiasts and hobbyist and sponges looking for input and can afford it, it is fun to learn new things and see boundaries become broken, or not lol. 🤛

[@Sup_D]

Have to also see how the lack of Hyper-threading is going to affect the overall performance of Arrow Lake.

[@TurboLoveTrain]

Hyper threading was always a meme. It's a marketing term for something the CPU/OS always did and a jenkey workaround for shit program optimization.

[@rgracon]

The fourth fix for my board’s BIOS is still in beta, and I’m really struggling with whether to trust a beta version of the bios, or not to update and leave the vulnerability.

[@LoonyToon69]

yeah no, the motherboard companies were a small part of the problem but the largest part of the problem with the whole 13/14th gen lands on Intel's feet plain and simple. The fact that intel is now controlling what the board vendors can do on their own products just goes to show how bad intel is laying this on the boards vendors feet when they only played a small part of a much larger issue.

[@Bluelagoonstudios]

Intel has to proove themselfs to regain trust, before we build systems again with these SKUs. Although a lot of clients asking for Intel, but we cannot recommend Intel at this time. We has RMAs elevated end 2023. And we had to replace motherboards and CPUs. And all our systems are high end all with custom loops. So in manhours that's a lot of money. And no one can garantee we get our extra money back.

[@GregM]

What also pissed me off was the corrosion issue which Intel knew about for almost a year and never alerted the general public because it would hurt their bottom line. No doubt class action lawsuits will be filed for that issue.

[@bavelbenjamin]

Jay, why do I feel like this is the exact same video style as that with NVIDIA and their average priced GPU?

[@Vipppala]

oh ffs dont just throw the vendors under the bus, its as much intel fault and responsibility as the vendors, they were perfectly fine with it when it helped them sell for of their CPUs.

[@kraazed]

A reason for testing in not only just a hot environment but humid environments is to determine the high heat and load potential for corrosion of things like the CPU pins and contact pads. Humidity increses corrosion potential when combined with high currents and high heats.

[@grumpyoldwizard]

I always stuck with Intel. I am very disappointed with their reaction to this issue. It makes me doubt them. I will wait to purchase anything until they have handled this problem.

[@TurboLoveTrain]

There is no real difference between AMD and Intel beyond manufacturing methods and how they deal with the memory controllers. x86 is x86 is x86.

[@nexuqk]

@@TurboLoveTrain and the fact that amd can support 8+ years a single socket

[@SpicyEvo]

Amd isn’t any better with the quitting production of the 7800x3d to purposely increase 9000 sales and make it only available for 700 bucks.

[@TurboLoveTrain]

@@nexuqk That has more to do with market strategy than anything else. Ironically the most stable systems are usually the ones they aren't pushing updates to anymore.

[@devilzuser0050]

@@nexuqk But release for all generations a new "chipset" aka new mobo..

[@paulkendall6069]

The reports of problems started 3-6months after 13gen launch, Intel are just as much to blame as the board partners they failed to check what they were doing and have protections if the board is set up wrong and they had errors in the cpu control codes. Some of this can be blamed on competition from AMD as Intel couldn't just be close Intel wanted to be a long way in front.

[@S_Karthik]

Been with this channel since 2015 the iFixit ad has more explosion 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@408civettethreat]

Intel never does anything wrong. Always passing the buck off to other hardware vendors They just finished the final nail in the coffin for us OC’s . I refuse to update my microcode of my 13&14gen cpus . But hey I’m already an AMD graphics card so might as well go with there cpus too

[@shadytcg]

the ifixit ad had no business going this HARD🔥

[@leonidas14775]

They could do like motorola does when unlocking a bootloader on a phone. To disable DLVR, they could log the serial number of your CPU and void the warranty to get an unlock code.

[@AlekzDK]

Intel pushed too hard on core clocks and wattage to remaiin competitive

[@Quatrawinner]

So glad I'm sticking with AMD on my next build. Intel is just straight up shifting blame for their screw up.

[@unjordi]

0:48 I suddenly feel the need for iFixIt surgical equipment 😏

[@FloridaDave-i6j]

9800x3d , then at least 1 more gen before looking at intel again. both work and personal

[@xxJudgmentalxx]

This problem sits solely on intel's shoulders. I recently tried updating to the latest stable bios for my MSI Z790 Tomahawk Wi-Fi and was not happy at all with it. I am on the 11-6 bios on my 14-900k and stay around 1.33v on the Vcore on intel's 250 watt setting, but when I updated to the newest stable version, I was consistently staying at 1.45-1.49v on the Vcore with either Intel 250 watt setting or MSI settings in bios and running considerably hotter. When are they going to actually fix this, so I can RMA and get a chip that will last? My guess is, after all our warranties expire. lol

[@yumri4]

I am happy to hear him talking about undervolting overclocking again as overvolting is what most talk about. Mostly to undervolt overclock you need a better than the median chip quality chip to be able to do while not having it crash under a 100% load on all cores CPU, GPU and NPU.

[@Tiki832]

Were board partners one problem factor? Sure. Were they the primary problem factor? No. That was Intel. Intel tried to spin it as "Those pesky board partners doing their new fangled things!" early on before any larger scale investigation took place, but it soon became clear the problem was significantly much further reaching and rooted within Intel themselves. What Intel weren't banking on was for a large investigative effort to take place over the whole thing and for very big influential and disgruntled partners to break the silence wall and actually talk to hardware outlets about the situation and Intels part of trying to circle jerk not just their general customers but also larger financial partners. So please, whilst it's great to draw attention to the problem of board partner behaviour, don't do so at the expense of shifting accountability for specific events away from where it should lie.

[@MiniDevilDF]

Degradation isn't usually a thing to worry about, agreed... even overclocked, I've never had an issue. I built my 4670k box in 2014, and just replaced it this past August, ran it ten years. The entire time, it was pushed to 4.4ghz, 1.345v. Sometimes it even ran a bit toasty at 89C during cinebench... but man that thing was a champ for a whole decade. Still had some life in it... sold the whole rig to someone looking to get into entry level games and building their first PC for $50 for them to scavenge and have fun with.

[@six0bros]

I think intel is every bit to blame for this mess. From realizing issues in manufacturing, ignoring those issues, intel loved when their cpu were hitting crazy scores at the time. Now they want to blame board vendors. I think both have a part to blame in this. Even the fixed microcode my cpu now runs hotter with lower scores. Now that is compared to an undervolt profile i did.

[@mornnb]

Overvolting at 6ghz wasn't entirely motherboard fault. There is within spec configuration of the loadlines that was allowing transient spikes above 1.6v which is what the microcode addressed. What the board makers were doing is LLC undervolting which was crashing UE5 and unlimited power and current limits. Which intel said can also cause degradation.

[@KillaGorilla-l7z]

They will lie about motherboard vendors destroying there CPU’s again?

[@lostcontentgames4171]

Intel's just deflecting blame, simple as that.

[@Sysiu]

guess how much can you make for these video when everyone knows its a lie

[@kai_121-y6k]

At this point if I was a motherboard manufacturer, I wouldn't even do business with intel at this point because their CPUs are a damn headache to optimize for, it's just ridiculous how much you have to go through just for the shit to work. I remember their was a time where you didn't have to worry about all this bullshit and you just turned on XMP change one or two settings and you where done, the shit worked.

[@johnphamlore8073]

I wonder when it will be allowed for the mainstream press, or any press, to report the real reason Intel is going under -- Intel's stack ranking method of evaluating and then disposing of employees makes it impossible for the company to retain people willing and able to retrain to new technologies, such as say ASML's EUV lithography machines. Anyone taking time to retrain will be stack ranked out of the company, because it's all about what one is doing right now, this year. All of Intel's problems are due to their not being able to get these machines working for now approaching a decade.

[@TurboLoveTrain]

They'll probably report that when they report that Israel became heavily involved in Intel in the 90s.. so never.

[@DanielBull]

Intel started using Stack Ranking? Ooooooh now everything is clear.....

[@Kiraeden]

can speak to the humidity in the carolinas in august lol, came back from a short trip to my room being at 90% humidity and there being visible moisture on my PC case glass. Thankfully PC is still working fine.

[@techluvin7691]

I’m having a difficult time believing it is the motherboards fault. As an Agronomist I can tell you that regardless of my nutrient inputs, the plant will only utilize what it requires for growth and sustainability. Huge oversight on Intel’s part if they DID NOT have protections in place to stop over-volting from occurring. I’m gonna have to call BS on this one. Intel allowed over-voltage in order to keep up with AMD. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what occurred. And now……….they attempt to save face by blaming motherboard manufacturers for what is clearly their fault. I just don’t buy it.

[@Cylonknight]

Agreed, specially to keep up with AMD, they were sacrificing thermals and eventually their CPUs for a bit of extra performance.

[@Theopheus]

That's because you're making dumb assumptions. They didn't say it was ALL the vendor's fault. They said they were part of the equation. Jay has shown this before on the channel. They worked on their end of things by sending down all the recent microcode updates.

[@techluvin7691]

@@Theopheus Easy with the insults there princess.

[@Argent3333]

@@Theopheuscan not an assumption be reasonable based on by not having all the information. Being an assumption does not make it “dumb” you owe an apology

[@Theopheus]

@@Argent3333 Don't give me your apology crap. Just another uninformed person who thinks they know everything because they have the internet. When people start bringing back nuance, and stop taking sides, I'll consider being polite again.

[@celcius_87]

The new background is looking great Jay

[@dom3810]

Gigabyte just announced X3D Turbo the other day. Thankfully it’s a part of the AGESA bios update but I’m super tempted to lean that way with 9000 series

[@Anders357]

Intel pooped on 12th, 13th and 14th gen and this core ultra does nothing for me on 14th so why bother. 9800x3d or 7800x3d is where its at now, nothing intel related. Unless they make a Core Ultra revision with +30% gaming performance. Which i seriously doubt.

[@Alex-zi1nb]

intel blaming 3rd party and jay carrying their water LOL

[@farminglol]

The board vendors pushing it were not what killed them. It was the microcode from Intel themselves. Intel took several updates to come up with a profile that didn't kill their own cpus. Not to reign in the vendors.

[@supernova1163]

WHO SPONSOR BLOCKED THE IFIXIT AD

[@VndNvwYvvSvv]

Ads? I haven't seen one for over a decade

[@paulbbryan]

Intel getting more oversight over vendors is a *bad* thing.

[@slateslavens]

yep - this is why Nvidia graphics cards are now just basically clones of each other. Yeah there might me a model or two that have an average performance above the rest of the crowd, but it's mostly just 'grab the one you think looks best'. (Silly 'same mode, different chip/memory type/amount/etc aside)

[@JomeFromWork]

The intro was just perfect for someone like me who is new and still learning on the PC space. This type of vid from Jay and Team really inform even the noob like me.

[@zf9903]

@@JomeFromWork except that he’s blaming the wrong people. Most of us in the comments are in agreement. The problem is that the CPU was allowed to ask for infinite power to begin with, all the motherboard vendors were doing is giving intel what they wanted. A motherboard manufacturer should not be responsible for keeping Intel in check. Intel spent a long time trying to trick people into blaming motherboard manufacturers, and clearly it has worked on Jay. If you want honest tech discussions, watch Gamers’ Nexus. Jay can be good, but he is often just a regular casual tech-tuber, and this is one of those cases.

[@JomeFromWork]

@zf9903 as far as I understand from whole content. Jay mentioned that MoBo manufacturers put more wattage in the chip AND intel microcode also allows it to be the case. He is saying both are at fault but of course mainly Intel. There is a section too on the resolution in place where he explain it. But I see your point that he's somehow blaming the wrong people but it's just the format where he first talk about MoBo manufactures then at the mid section talks about Intel where it should be the other way around.

[@brianprince2588]

Jay I know you most likely won't see this comment. But I wanted to say thank you for these talking head videos. Unlike Steve, Ltt, and other content witch I enjoy. Unlike those content creators you make computer, and pc subjects more approachable, and easily understandable to the regular people who know little about the pc I just built for them. I use your talking head videos to explain subjects in the mainstream, and or talked about situations regarding pc. This was also entertaining for those that know more.🤓 Keep doing you sir. We will keep watching it 👍

[@zinxderobo]

i feel like you're deflecting, we need Intel to stick around but that doesn't absolve them of blatantly lying. thru should be held accountable.

[@saman5986]

Never been happier since switching to AMD's 7950X3D! After dealing with a degraded 13900K and a defective Z690 motherboard, I’m done with Intel for now. This move has been a game-changer for me. Thanks for covering Intel's approach, but it’s AMD all the way for me at the moment!

[@glharlor]

Wait, so Intel is still blaming board partners.... Awesome. 🙄

[@elchancho8432]

They were part of the problem yes but Intel was the main problem

[@Theopheus]

What part of the microcode updates did you not hear about? They know there was a problem. They've done things on their end to fix it. The vendors are absolutely still part of the problem. Jay's shown it before on the channel.

[@Met1900]

Its 100 percent boardpartner. On my 11700k i can go as high as i want with vcore. So if the motherboard manufacturer decides to put some high voltage in, he can do it. Thats what they will stop with arrow lake.

[@jabronilifestyle]

@@Met1900 It's 100% Intel's fault for taking the 12th gen chip, adding more e-cores/voltage/wattage and rushing it out when their own designers said it would fail.

[@Met1900]

@@jabronilifestyle what are you talking about? You can kill any CPU if you give to mutch voltage.

[@Happy_Broom]

Even with the latest Gigabyte Z790M bios with 0x12B microcode, had to manually, as with 0x129 microcode, set the CPU Core PLL Overvoltage, Ring PLL Overvoltage, the SA PLL Overvoltage and the CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration to eliminate app glitches, soft crashes, hard crashes and BSOD's with a 14900KS. Probably adds up how to make a buggy CPU stable if not indicating a need for an improved microcode from Intel.

[@MajinOthinus]

Blaming the board partners for Intel's failures at this point in time is actually crazy. What is this? UserBenchmark?

[@Phil-D83]

The 12th gen did not have an issue, so this was not the mobo makers fault. I recall having to solder resistors for get voltages stable on the core2 gen to overclock. I do not want to have to do that again

[@TheAmmoniacal]

Bullshit, this is all on Intel and not the board partners.

[@user-ev8vh3hp6n]

The MBs should not have provided that power. Not unless the user chose so in the BIOS.

[@spentcasing3990]

Exactly. The cpu's having oxyidization issues is totally on Intel. Not telling the motherboard companies the proper voltages......that they couldn't even figure out is on Intel. It all comes back to Intel shitting the bed

[@z0phi3l]

Both are equally responsible, both sides knew what they were doing and were not ready for the fallout

[@AbrahamLeanin]

Source?

[@spentcasing3990]

@@AbrahamLeanin Google

[@Obyss682]

Everything announced sounds like Intel is against PC enthusiasts. To get the best performance you have to buy a pre built? That's insanity. Why can't they just run a board partner model like AMD.

[@JayC133]

The screensaver not being HDR or the correct resolution for the monitor is triggering me 😂😂

[@Ben-f6u6l]

Intel already admitted that the root cause is an issue with the 13/14th gen architecture. All the bios changes were attempted mitigations for their faulty hardware.

[@sladesurfer]

This is more like intel advertisement. Also, blaming motherboards manufacturers?While ur at it. Blame the user for overclocking it

[@Koyote2033]

I legit asked how much Intel paid him to make this video in another comment. No response yet

[@damiensadventure]

The issue is that the motherboards will auto boost your cpu without end user knowledge in many cases. I'm some cases, giving the CPU more voltage than the most high end cpus would need. Blowing certain parts of the CPU and this degrading it until instability.

[@EmDzei]

I think we have same problems with 12th series too, but we hear only 13th and 14th gen CPU's. My motherboard had the similer 4096W etc. there. And at early days, with first motherboard BIOS, so many games crashed.

[@TheGrassyDirtBlock]

Hey um. I like my cpu going fast? Its called overclocking? I like that with one press im on the bleeding edge with no need for hours of resetting and tweaking? I feel alone in this whats going on with the pc oc community

[@sirmonkey1985]

with the improvements and consistency in wafer yields it was inevitable that overclocking would disappear. but they're not stopping YOU from overclocking, they're stopping the board vendors from overclocking the cpu's out of the box. it's the same thing AMD does, no matter what board you buy that you put an AMD cpu in you'll get the same performance +-1-2% out of the box and it's been that way since zen 1 and there's nothing the board vendors can do about it unless the user modifies the default settings.

[@MarioCRO]

OMG, are we haering Jay blaming MBO vendors for Intel 13/14th gen degradation?? Looks like Jay is getting new Intel lineup before anyone else ;)

[@FatheredPuma81]

This year's CPU launches are certainly shaping up to be the worst in the past 8 years. If only I didn't "need" to upgrade. Guess it'll be 9800X3D now that Intel has truly dropped the ball.

[@SpicyEvo]

And I’m thinking just going with arrow lake as amd is being shady as well by stopping 7800x3d production to increase 9000 sales.

[@mytech6779]

@@SpicyEvo Not really shady when 9000 is equal to [or better than] 7000 in every aspect including price.

[@thetheoryguy5544]

Wtf are you talking about?

[@FatheredPuma81]

@@thetheoryguy5544 AMD releasing chips that have the smallest increase in performance since the FX 8350, 9800X3D going to be 10% faster than 7800X3D according to rumors, and Intel is doing another joke launch with an insane 0% performance gain according to rumors.

[@FatheredPuma81]

@@mytech6779 7700X and 7700 is literally cheaper than 9700X...

[@Thirdhero]

everyone shit on Nvidia for locking down their bios and forcing partners to adhere to strict power limits now we are hopeful that intel does the same for the longevity of their product

[@ernies8828]

I would not trust any CPU past 12th gen at this point. I still use Intel 6 core, Core i5, 10th gen, and it works great with the RTX 3060 graphics card. And if there is ANY artificial intelligence embedded, hardware or software, including the NPU chips on the new motherboards and cell phones, I refuse to buy it. Consumers should have a choice.

[@luminatrixfanfiction]

I wouldn't trust 15th Gen because it was likely in production when the first reports of degradation on 13th and 14th gen came out, but after that, it's so far down the road in the future that Intel would be using new wafers that haven't been affected by whatever manufacturing flaw occurred. So reasonable to assume 16th Gen might be safe.

[@ernies8828]

@@luminatrixfanfiction - i disagree. And because of AI, I am done with technology past a certain stage

[@bradhaines3142]

@@luminatrixfanfiction nope. most designs are done 2-3 years before production, which starts 8-9months ahead of announcement not counting engineering samples. so theres a good 4-5 year gap between with things are put in and people actually get them

[@organicinsanity2534]

10th gen has been listed by techyescity as the last one before real issues with the snappiness. And then 11th had some increased failures, 12 gen seemed okay but was of course now loaded with the e cores and stuff if I’m not wrong so weather you want to go that route or not of course is personal preference. It’s sad too cause if intel took the hit and handled the customer service route like they should have this would have blown over when they finally change their design much like with the ground up refresh that ryzen brought. I’m sure there is stuff in the works that will put them back on top again. Just a hard sell now to regain trust. I don’t fanboy for anyone I just went with a ryzen am4 cuz it was efficient enough and cost effective for my needs. And as much as I thought long and hard about matching it with an amd gpu I just gimped my vram with a 3080 10gb instead cuz of nvidias better resale down the line and just higher market share which I really do believe leads to less problems and quicker fixes for issues from devs. And I don’t even like using dlss or raytracing.

[@ernies8828]

@@organicinsanity2534 - i agree. It is called post covid socialism via the commie democrats. I already know.

[@vensroofcat6415]

I would think high humidity is only relevant for open evaporating cooling solutions. Like human skin. Because the air just can't take in any more liquid. While for tech high humidity air should provide higher heat capacity due to having higher percentage of water molecules? It could speed up solder deterioration though, oxidation rates in general or something like that.

[@YouHaventSeenMeRight]

Jay, please stop posting the Intel propaganda that the primary offenders were the board partners. The CPU is in control of what it demands, the motherboard just responds to that demand. The issue wasn't overly aggressive power supply settings on the motherboard side, it was Intel's own internal voltage control firmware that would push the voltage over the safe levels. Plenty of failed 13th and 14th gen CPU were used in systems where the motherboard didn't operate outside the recommended settings from Intel, so that duck won't fly. The fact that board vendors were letting their boards supply more power than the recommended spec is something that Intel has used to their own marketing advantage for the longest time, because it allowed them to use the enthusiast web and KZbin tech reviewers to show that their product was the best for gaming. So Intel initially throwing their board partners under the bus, is so disingenuous that, if I were a board partner, I would seriously consider never exceeding their recommended settings ever again and have them fight AMD on their own without the added benefit that they had because of the "exceeding" power settings.

[@cessna917]

There may be dozens of us, but for the EVGA z690 Dark Kingpin, we're never getting bios updates for new microcode. So that's a bummer

[@AnnoyinglyCharming77]

I bought my 14700K in 2023 and first boot up I saw ASUS ai oc running 1.55v. I was like no no no. I manually set everything and its running faster then cooler then ever! maxed out 77C running benchmarks. Undervolted and OVERCLOCKED! 1.22-1.35v its a crazy fast chip I love it.

[@charlestrudel8308]

that sounds like a great idea you had.

[@charlestrudel8308]

also sounds like the motherboard did do something bad there.

[@bradhaines3142]

@@charlestrudel8308 its an ASUS thing. they may have a good physical design and maybe a good interface but asus bios are generally bad

[@Slappi2]

But it had the magic ACRONYM 'AI'!!!!! How could it lead you astray with the 'AI'!!!!!!

[@brucepreston3927]

This is why I have always used a static voltage for my Overclocks...It may draw 2-5 watts more at idle, but that is not enough to make any kind of real difference...I also disable C-states and intel speedshift/speedstep...When I get a new CPU I usually see how far I can push the frequency with stock voltage...I then manually set that all core frequency and voltage and then slowly start working the voltage down until it is no longer stable...After that I will add 15-20mv and run a bunch of stress tests...I don't let the cpu downclock or lower the voltage at idle and it has never caused me any issues...I did this with my 13700k and I have never had a single crash because of the CPU...

[@mikefrachel8292]

The physical fails I've seen are due to poor basic design - lack of redundancy in via chains, assuming due to electromigration, probably worsened due to voltage issues. I haven't seen any basic transistor failures yet no blown gates no vt drift no gidl. Eliminating design problems takes mask revs and new production. Testing them in a cafe in China is garbage and is something the marketing department comes up with. They need proper HTOL testing at those higher voltage conditions to prove out the design fix. Im not touching intel for at least a generation.

[@Hugh_I]

Good that Intel is trying to prevent such thing from happening again. It's the least we could expect. But this framing is off the mark and you seem to blindly repeat talking points you were told during your briefings by Intel. Mobo vendors try to get away with things, true, but Intel does not need technical solutions to stop them. Their so called "specs" were intentionally broad to allow this kind of thing and Intel didn't tell vendors to stop cranking up the power or voltages. They themselves wanted it this way. Anything to get even with Ryzen performance. Only after their chips turned into crisps did they start acting like their partners were running wild against their intent. And they seem to still trying to deflect blame. They weren't, and Intel themselves even told them this was all "in spec". Besides all that, the main culprit for the failures, as we all know by now, is their own microcode that pushed the voltage too high, regardless of any overclocking or profiles. This was the main issue and that is on Intel, nothing their partners could've even done anything about.