An introduction to using half ropes for trad rock climbing (also known as doubles)

[@JBMountainSkills]

Want to buy me a coffee or the boy a dog treat?! www.buymeacoffee.com/jbmountain

[@MattyDredge]

Definitely my favourite intro of yours 🙂

[@Nachtelfafronese]

Thx so much, jo from Germany

[@JBMountainSkills]

My pleasure!

[@mk5871]

Great content. The information is to the point and well presented. Thank you and keep up the good work!

[@JBMountainSkills]

Much appreciated!

[@lucaaddei2952]

Very good video, very good quality man, well done keep going! I have always wondered how it works with 3 people multi-pitching on half ropes, I’d say it’d be a very interesting video: I cannot find anything on youtube about that! Very well done mate, amazing job💪🏻

[@JBMountainSkills]

Very kind :) I can't remember if I've done a video on climbing as a 3, but if I haven't I'll give it some thought!

[@MilestoneOutdoors]

Thanks for this video mate. Its makes it look so simple and nice to be able to learn how to do this from my home a bit first before having to do it for real. Keep up the great work 🙂

[@JBMountainSkills]

Pleasure! Half ropes become completely second nature in no time at all 💪

[@andrewarnold7006]

I’ve looked and looked for the answer to this question, maybe you can help. Half ropes are obviously not rated for single rope use, but if you clip every other piece of protection and take a fall won’t the top piece of protection take all the load and basically the same as a single lead rope? Thanks in advance, great videos!

[@chrismboyle]

Half ropes will be tested for rated falls, the UIAA says that climbing ropes in general don’t break, their failure is from being severed, typically by a sharper edge or object, or through degradation. A half rope will catch the same fall as a single rope but doesn’t have the cut resistance or durability of a larger single rope, hence the redundancy of the narrower rope. As single rated ropes get smaller they start to become triple rated, as a single, half and twin. But you could always use a single rope in a half or twin configuration.

[@1SyncGames]

The top piece takes the majority of the force and the rope in the lower piece still takes some force

[@AcfLavertyy]

Nice timing Jez! Been thinking about finally investing in a set of half ropes for trad. Very interested to watch the video 😊

[@JBMountainSkills]

Nice one, they’re definitely the way forwards!

[@lukethornton1942]

Epic video. Thank you so much for this video 😀👍

[@Laranth1]

What do you do when you are on a multi pitch and you can't see or hear your partner Just keep letting it slack equally on both or wait for them to tug one colour?

[@MacDaddy1660B]

Hi Jez! I think your videos are great, and quite useful. I really like your hex cam shirt in this video. I'd like to get one, too. Where'd you get it?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad you like 'em. It's a Patagonia one but I don't think they make them anymore.

[@TknJn]

@@JBMountainSkills It's got to be your *LOUDEST!* teeshirt Jez. ;-j

[@AdamFranco]

Do you exclusively belay from the top when climbing with half ropes or sometimes build a gear anchor and then lower down to belay the follower from the bottom and/or do extra laps on top rope? I've recently started leading on halves and really appreciate the advantages on lead. After leading single-pitch routes I often find it nice to build a gear anchor at the top and then lower and do a few laps on top-rope to practice variations of the same route or neighboring routes. When we're climbing with half ropes I've been running into twists when trying to top rope on both strands and haven't been able to find any recommendations for anchor point setups that will minimize twists when top-roping and belaying from the bottom.

[@robertdavies9435]

Another brilliant video. Thank you for sharing! I appreciate that the two half ropes are by the looks of things a preferred method for trad climbing. Is there any reason why a single rope isn't safe?

[@JBMountainSkills]

My pleasure! No reason at all, single is definitely safe, there's just a few advantages in many situations to having halves

[@jeremyballard7461]

Grand Jez. Will you be following this up with a stance management session for multi pitch?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Possibly... there’s a lot on the list, it’ll be a tricky one to do well at home

[@jeremyballard7461]

Hopefully we will be allowed back out on the hill before you can get too far down that list! I’ll have to buy you a coffee soon.

[@sethk18]

Question: for the anchor/belay using the ropes, would you be belaying your second off your harness (belay loop) with a redirect or directly off the anchor? Thanks! Loving these videos!

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad you're liking them! I've done a video about where to belay from. Short answer though is normally the rope loop if I'm in the system: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKHMgXiprrB9Zpo

[@cornishlad97]

How do you clip halves if your climbing a traverse? Or if you Climbing a route that moves diagonally up the rock? That’s always messed with my mind!

[@JBMountainSkills]

Tend to try and keep one rope high, one rope low. Takes a bit of practice for it all to become intuitive!

[@trevparry1995]

Would it be safe to use one single rope doubled tied into each end? For example a single pitch with gear placement spread out wide, brilliant videos keep them coming👍

[@JBMountainSkills]

Yeah it's ok to do, just ends up a bit bulky :)

[@DeeKayBrewery]

What about tying onto the middle of a rope to try double ropes? If so which knot is best?

[@JBMountainSkills]

I must admit I don't do this very often as I find it a bit of a pain not to twist the ropes, but.... If I do, personally I tie in with a rethreaded overhand and clip the tail back to the tie in loops.

[@DeeKayBrewery]

@@JBMountainSkills cheers

[@bluejuice7229]

I've used two 60m single ropes as half ropes once, mainly because we didn't have anything better with us. What's your 'go to' half rope brand and which thickness do you use when guiding?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Something like this if using halves: www.alpinetrek.co.uk/petzl-tango-85-half-rope/?#Q0C16294 Good brand, 8.5mm wears well too.

[@bluejuice7229]

Wow! Thank you!!

[@Gamemanagement101]

Just a quick question - if you are belaying your buddy using this no sling, double rope only anchor technique, how would you quickly make him safe once he reaches you, given the anchor looks very tailored to just you? Great content, thanks! Chris

[@JBMountainSkills]

Yeah, that's a potential "problem", it isn't so slick. Full belt and braces - they use your gear placements and copy the rope setup. The more normal things are more like tying off the belay plate, or them clipping in to a solid part of the belay, perhaps a bomber nut for example, or both those things.

[@tjb8841]

If the leader clove hitched directly to the pieces, the second can just use the “backside” of those strands, and clove into a carabiner clipped to their harness. Same as a single rope.

[@joemaxwell3213]

Another great video. Just one question regarding half ropes as climbing as a 3. Is it ‘okay’ practise to lead on half ropes and then each of the second comes up on 1 half ropes each, or is best to use 2 singles for this?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Cheers! Two singles or triple rated ropes would be better :)

[@LukeHunterClimbing]

What are your thoughts on clipping half and twin ropes through the same krab? and as a controversial topic.. using half and twins at an indoor wall because that's all you have brought with you. cheers 🤙

[@JBMountainSkills]

Good question that! I’d rather not clip half ropes to the same krab but it’s quite a complicated issue... Twins are different, id clip both into every krab. It’d be down to the wall about using halves there, it’d be perfectly safe of course.

[@beardeddude2910]

I need a sound bite of you saying "it's just disgusting" so I can play it when I see a bad knot.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Haha, can be arranged 😂

[@beardeddude2910]

Potentially the same sound bite for poor gear placement 😂🤣

[@sebgentile7497]

Hi, great video. What thickness of half ropes would you recommend for a first pair?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Cheers! I'd go around 8.5. Skinny enough to be nice, but fat enough to be pretty durable and confidence inspiring :)

[@cyrillel-g2595]

thks for the great video JB! one question about clipping, should i always alternate rope and never clip both at the same time? and is the answer the same if im doing a multi pitch with bolts in place? my understanding is that when trad i should never clip both cause of the force it can put on gear but it is fine when clipping bolts, is that correct?

[@JBMountainSkills]

There's different ways of doing this but... If I was on bolts, I'd alternate on halves. If I was trad climbing in a straight line, I'd alternate. If I was trad climbing normally, I'd save one for the left, one for the right. I wouldn't normally clip both to one piece, but there's exceptions to every rule...

[@ianmcnulty4251]

Belaying off only one rope loop (the harness tie-in; 9:35 and 13:50) seems like it would ask a lot of a half rope in the event of a climber fall, especially lead belaying. Wouldn't using both rope loops or the belay loop be smarter?

[@JBMountainSkills]

A half rope is absolutely more than strong enough 💪

[@ianmcnulty4251]

@@JBMountainSkills Thanks!

[@bennettstone656]

*3 seconds in* ITS CHEWSDAY

[@xcp4518]

Oy mate its chewsday innit?

[@wildgav]

Could you clip the belay plate into the belay loop on the harness? Even if it was a single rope?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Yep, perfectly safe. Just makes it a little less comfortable if belaying a climber from above and they fall off, and a bit for of a faff if escaping the system in an "emergency".

[@wildgav]

@@JBMountainSkills thanks I understand what you mean with getting out the system in emergency

[@Nick-B78]

Another interesting one as I’ve not done trad yet let alone twin ropes. One question I did want to ask though was about the use of slings to extend draws as you did at the start. I’m always hearing about how slings shouldn’t be shock-loaded however surely if you extend a draw with a sling and then fall shortly after clipping the extended draw but before you get to the next clip, you’re going to do exactly that, right? Have I missed something here? I guess it wouldn’t necessarily be a complete shock to it as the belayer would be able to give a degree of ‘softness’ to the fall but surely its still going to be quite an impact?

[@JBMountainSkills]

It’s a good question! All quickdraws are basically slings, they’re all static, so aren’t great for shock loads, so the sling draw is essentially no different to a normal draw. But, and it’s a big but, your rope is dynamic. This means there’s always a dynamic element to the fall, pull belayer moving, and slip etc. This means there’s no shock loading going on 👊

[@Nick-B78]

JB Mountain Skills Gotcha, thanks for that 👍

[@jacksondeeney7678]

Mr. Rodgers of Climbing

[@larryshredmonkey]

Great video as always JB. In your opinion, what are the real-life consequences of falling on a single half rope? Let's say you've only had gear on the left for a while and then you fall so the right-hand rope doesn't take any weight.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Good question! I think in most falls one rope will take the vast majority, if not all of the force, and they are tested on their own. I'm happy falling on one strength wise.

[@larryshredmonkey]

@@JBMountainSkills Thankyou! On a similar theme, do you generally tend to use single or half ropes on meander-y crack climbs (where it looks like a stretched out 's' shape from the bottom)? Assuming there'll only be gear placements inside the crack (no left or right options)...

[@federiconoris1938]

Hi! Do you use gloves while belaying? Here in Italy🇮🇹 it's common practice to use them, since some tests made by our alpine club show that falling while ropes are clipped separately usually means one rope to get most of the force, hence being really difficult to hold bare hand. We also get told to eventually start clipping ropes indipendently just after the third piece of protection, even if the common way is to always clip both ropes to every piece. I find the alternate clipping technique very useful, and don't understand why it's so uncommon and avoided here. It would be very interesting to know your thoughts about these differences :) (it's likely that I've written something badly wrong, hope you understand anyway 😅 just ignore my bad knowledge of the language ahah) Great video anyway 👏

[@JBMountainSkills]

Hey! We don't tend to wear gloves by default in the UK, not sure why really, probably just a cultural thing, some people do. I've never had an issue holding a fall on half ropes - but Im only one person! Because we use halves mostly, we normally clip independently, one piece of gear, one rope, we would only occasionally clip both ropes in to the same quickdraw. Other countries use Twin ropes more often, slightly confusing language I know! These are supposed to both be normally clipped in to each quickdraw. So that means we have single ropes, half ropes (also known as doubles), and twin ropes, then to confuse matters many ropes these days are triple rated so you can use them as all 3! Each rope type is tested to different UIAA. Traditionally it's considered bad to mix up how we use the ropes on a climb, ie. swapping from independently clipping, to clipping both, but there is some chat now around that being ok in some circumstances. It's a complicated subject hey?! Your use of language seemed spot on to me!

[@federiconoris1938]

@@JBMountainSkills thanks for the well articulated answer! I know about the different omologation between half and twin ropes, actually my doubts come from the fact that most of the ropes now have double omologation (twin and half), hence they could be used both ways. On adventure terrain I think the advantages of half ropes (low force trasmission to Gear) are massive, but here is common practice to always use them as twins, even on gear (and I'm quite perplexed about It). Definitely a complicate subject! Ahahah maybe as you said is just a cultural thing. Thanks for this positive exchange of views! Really interesying 👍

[@ButYesButNoButYesButMaybe]

So when the person falls... He's held by a 1/2 rope on the last gear... So when rope combo designed (with redundancy) for my 250lb 115kg weight no problem, then this single thin half rope is taking double weight than it is planned for isn't it? More risk and probably seriously reducing rope life. Sorry but I simply still don't get a point in using 2x0.5 instead of one double thick rope. A little easier to climb non straight path and little easier to clip the rope WITH sacrifice in headache of two ropes, damaging their safe life span and doubling intended safe load? Before I thought it's safety related because two ropes redundancy, before realising they're half thick and you're not clipping both to the same carbine. Even after this video I still cant see why anybody would use this. (thinkingface) :(

[@tjb8841]

I think the key is that you say: “one strand of half rope, takes double the weight it is planned for” , which is incorrect. Half ropes ARE designed to take full body weight falls. That’s the difference with a twin rope. Also, they are NOT “half as thick” as you write. It’s closer to 80% as thick. But, The rest of your statement is still true: you are using thinner ropes (usually), so they have a thinner sheath, so probably they are less durable ropes. And heavier than a single rope, and more awkward to belay and build anchors. The trade off is less rope rope drag, shorter falls if you fall,while clipping above you, redundancy if your rope gets damaged, and easier set up for full length rappels (than using a single rope and tag line). Like anything in climbing, there are pros and cons, and the optimum depends on the situation. No one is saying they are best for everywhere. If you want one system, just stick with single ropes.