JBugs - Timing a 009 Distributor

[@VolksStokes]

What will we do without Sam?! Thank you for making our liVWes easier

[@aecii_3d]

Thanks! Finally a timing video that explains it in a way I can understand . Thank you.

[@Sam_Mebane]

You're welcome, glad it helped!

[@jemcnair76]

When I bought my 73 Super over 10 years ago I didn't know much about aircooled VWs. My 73 had a 009 on it and it was a nightmare. The more I read the further I went down some horrific rabbit hole of "try this/try that", and it was all nonsense. I finally after some months ran into a blog where some mechanic said 009s are for aircraft and stationary engines... and the best thing to do with it is trash it and install an SVDA. I did that and 98% of my problems were gone. The other 2% of my problems were jetting the carb back to stock, and cleaning out the heat riser.

[@Sam_Mebane]

One of the best way to describe too 009 is uh-oh nine!

[@GTE_Channel]

Yeah 009 is great for dragracing, but for streetuse it's terrible. SVDA runs super smooth.

[@timmytheimpaler1750]

Finally Thanks for this

[@Antarath]

I have a slick 1968 with an original super beetle 1600cc engine, an aftermarket EMPI carb (hpmx with NO CHOKE) and a horrible 009. What were they thinking when the previous owner upgraded the car? I got myself an SVDA 034 distributor, but I'm watching video after video to make sure I know what I'm doing before I install it. At least I'm sort of forced to learn how to do things myself on this car (still not confident though). On SAMBA many people claim they are bad vacuum ports. Some even claim they are manifold vacuums. I have measured and the port is slightly above the butterfly valves on the hpmx.

[@VolksStokes]

My '71 Ghia oil temp over-heats within 5-10 minutes before hitting the road. I just adjusted valves and hesitation stopped but oil still overheats. I adjusted carbs but no diff. Now I'm gonna re-time it and hopefully that solves the issue.

[@Sam_Mebane]

Timing can certainly help with ever heating but normally it only affects the oil temp during driving. If the oil is over heating while the car is just idling, I would be suspect of oil pressure or possibly some other internal engine problem.

[@xfontix39]

Hello Jbugs, Nice Tutorial about ignition timing :D i would like to know what type of exhaust / tail pipe are you using on your 71?

[@Sam_Mebane]

This 71 isn't mine, but it's running a www.jbugs.com/product/3417.html - 2 Tip GT Exhaust.

[@DeeJayEll]

SO helpful. Thank you. 👍

[@geostorm9351]

So you adjusted your timing at idle and then got your advance at 3k rpm automatically? You didn’t have to adjust the distributor while at 3k rpm? If I’m correct is so much easier when you only have two hands.

[@Sam_Mebane]

As you rev the engine, the timing will advance automatically, yes. This distributor advanced 23-25 degrees depending on the initial timing. If you have another set of hands, it would be helpful certainly, but as I showed in this video, they aren't a necessity.

[@geostorm9351]

@ yeah I don’t know why I didn’t think about it. Set a couple of degrees at a time at idle and check at 3k rpm to see what it advances to instead of trying to move the dist, pull the throttle, and hold the timing light all at once at 3k rpm. Makes sense. Great video man. Learn something new everyday

[@roystonsimon311]

I’m keen on your timing plate. Have you considered making a few of them and selling them to us ? Roysters 😎

[@nlnl4523]

Ya gotta find the sweet spot. Every engine can be different

[@SanDiego_VDubLife]

Do performance engines benefit from non vacuum advance distributors? Aka mechanical advance. Aka 009? Also what did you say after you set the timing? You adjusted the carburetor but I couldn’t hear or understand what you said. Something about the idle and how it was affected by the advance timing. Lastly can I do what you did with a basic timing light or do I need to buy one of those fancy expensive ones like the one you used???

[@Sam_Mebane]

For street driven cars, no. For a drag racing application, sure since you go from idle essentially to full throttle and a smooth advance curve across the rpm range doesn't really matter. I had to readjust the idle speed since it increased with the advanced timing. Most timing lights will have an advance dial and will do the job just fine. I like my light as the tach readout makes dialing the carb in much easier.

[@SanDiego_VDubLife]

ok good to know. I might have to invest in a vacuum advance distributor. But I also have dual carbs, does that matter? @@Sam_Mebane

[@Sam_Mebane]

@@SanDiego_VDubLife some performance carburetors do have vacuum ports, some don't. Most 40/44 IDF/HPMX carbs have one - www.jbugs.com/store/graphics/00000001/23/EMPI-40-44-HPMX-Carburetor-Tuning-Adjustment-Components_540x540.gif - but it is usually overlooked. Dual Kadrons don't typically but can be drilled for one, I sent my last set to AJ Sims to be drilled out.

[@SanDiego_VDubLife]

@@Sam_Mebane ok good to know. Thanks for the reply. I have dual empi carbs. They might have a vacuum port. I haven’t looked for it.

[@VolksStokes]

Mine is happy at 26*. At 28* i start to hear misfiring when i accelerate a bit

[@JonathanHopkins-kx1ld]

Is the timing mark at 0tdc or 7.5 ?

[@Sam_Mebane]

That depends on your pulley, I prefer to use TDC and advance the timing light from there.

[@tduncan2746]

In the last video you said you were going to look at the timing, I was wondering what your opinion was on the 009. I tend to agree, but I have no horse in this race. My 71 Super has been gone for decades now. So, Pertronix next upgrade?

[@Sam_Mebane]

Yep, we're installing a Pertronix SVDA distributor in next Friday's video!

[@Ljblossom]

Wish I could understand it but I do not understand what you are looking at on the pulley with the light.

[@Sam_Mebane]

The timing light shows the moment when the spark plug at #1 cylinder fires. Since this timing light has an adjustable flash, we set it to shine on the TDC notch in the pulley. So, whenever the plug is firing, we look for the notch on the pulley as the light flashes.

[@abs656]

you are looking at a vibrating line on the edge of the pulley that moves to the left or right as you increased the rpm .

[@nlnl4523]

Yes when different cams and when different deck hight and different compression ratios will cause timing too not be like the book standered.

[@benkanobe7500]

If you are having trouble seeing your timing marks, move the pick up from cylinder #1 to the coil wire and you should be able to see very clearly.

[@Sam_Mebane]

I'll give that a shot next time.

[@dennisnelson7777]

So what are you recommending to replace the 009?...

[@Sam_Mebane]

That depends on the carburetor but whenever possible I use the SVDA which I install here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/noDVlpuDeZ12mZI

[@nlnl4523]

Sounds like alot of clatter... possibly valve train clatter? Valve lash.

[@Sam_Mebane]

It was actually the fan rubbing on the shroud a bit!

[@GaryEckersley-h4k]

Top pulley seems to have a lot of run-out.

[@demotors070161]

I can't believe this BS. I used a 009 on my beetle 45 years ago. I set it up on a Sun distributor machine at school. If I remember correctly the advance was all in before 3000 rpm. It had great throttle response. I was eventually 8:00 running a Holley bug spray carb. Then dual port heads. Then a 1641 setup and a different cam. Always good fuel mileage. In My opinion if you don't set up any distributor correctly to give you the desired advance curve you are nothing but a parts changer. Did the same type of mods on a 79 Chevy El Camino. Went from 16 mpg highway to 21+. Despite having a 241 rear acceleration was much improved. With the original exhaust sitting home on the garage floor it went right through state emissions inspection (they didn't look underneath for the lack of a cat converter) probably because it ran so clean. The inspector complimented me on having the cleanest running car they had tested all week. It's all about tuning the carb and distributor.

[@Sam_Mebane]

Cause everyone has access to a distributor machine!

[@rupe53]

@@Sam_Mebane there was a time when every serious shop and all dealers had a distributor machine. This was especially true in the mid 70s when some had dual points for emissions. (Datsun / Nissan was famous for that)

[@dennisnelson7777]

I used a 009 on my '57 Ghia i owned for 40 years, did just fine...but please...Kick me in the Ass for selling it 10 years ago 😢...i bought my brother's '73 Bug last year, which is appropriate because i still have my '73 Sportster i owned 47 years, second owner, and i graduated in '73...so i guess i'll just buy all '73's now...but the point is...if you have a beloved vehicle, and it's not eating anything...KEEP IT!!!

[@andrebotas7756]

does this process works in the same way with a vaccum distributor?

[@Sam_Mebane]

Essentially, yes. The vacuum hose needs to be disconnected (and the port on the carburetor plugged) when setting the timing so that process is the same. We do have a timing video on a vacuum advance distributor here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/noDVlpuDeZ12mZI