Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2 Articulation | Coil vs. Quadralift | Real World Testing

[@mrar4995]

Informative video, Brad. Stock coil vs QL is a no brainer. But I think what the comment really meant is if the QL is better than a proper coil/strut suspension lift on the WK2 (i.e Bilstein 5100 + OME springs).

[@ProdigalOverland]

That maybe. I was hoping to show it’s a negligible difference between the two.

[@IftahBurman]

I was thinking this would be the direction of the comparison, as well. There's really not much gained by comparing the QL off-road abilities, articulation included, to the stock coils. However, a very interesting off-road comparison could be made to the EMU/Bilstein 2" lift kit, which I often come across. In that sense, also comparing the amount of cushioning and rock-climbing ability, between that and the off-raod 2 setting. Unquestionably, the 2" kit takes a hit with the "on-road" capabilities, but I believe it to be superior when going off-road. Great video non the less!

[@donsmith7979]

i Want my 13 mins back, Oh , I didn't get out of my jeep. Dope ! And the family cooler was on the driver side.

[@philbobaggins2183]

I think a good way to compare travel could be measuring hub to fender on wheels that lift off.

[@frankcurulli1244]

Articulation is relevant to live-axle vehicles. In 4x4s with independent suspension like the JGC (and new Landover Defender) its traction control and ground clearance that govern how far offroad you can achieve. Air suspension gives far greater clearance over stock coil setup. And with air you get Quadra Drive II which is again superior to a coil sprung JGC. Its all about clearance and grip that provides traction and takes you further. Thanks.

[@ProdigalOverland]

Well said. And I totally agree!

[@gwaddles]

The major issue for me is what happens when one of those airbags bursts? That’s why I would rather have coils……

[@danwhite9436]

Your science teacher is crying now.

[@jeepgreatstories]

On a scientific level, more air in the airbag, means higher spring rate... so the original comment is of the mindset that the stiffer spring will limit articulation, which could be true, but likely not with the factory system. Also, with more air in the airbag, the corners where the pressure has been removed or lessened the corner will be pushed down because of the additional spring rate. I’d like to see this redone on an actual RTI ramp with sway bars disconnected. I’m curious what those results would be. Fun vid though, really interesting stuff.

[@bradfordkrokosz]

Awesome, any chance you can do a sway bar disconnect comparison?

[@off-roadingexplained8417]

I wonder if the airbag suspension and the spring suspension have the same sway bars. You can look up the part numbers. If that's the limiting factor then with the sway bar connected they're going to behave about the same. Everyone talks about the disadvantages of independent suspension but nobody talks about the advantages. There are many advantages of independent suspension and off-roading and not just in off-roading prerunners. Especially within the suspensions range of travel... Mud, gravel roads , snow, ice , etc... Traction will be better... Contact patch will be better... Especially if it's double wishbone!

[@off-roadingexplained8417]

It's all good man . You got the horsepower for science ;-)

[@off-roadingexplained8417]

Yeah... My corner travel index is like 280 lol... We (regular) Cherokee Trailhawk owners joke that we own 3 wheel drive vehicles. BUT... They make it ! They get it done ! So does yours !

[@jre617]

Interesting idea, but the first guy should just have stayed in the car for the measurement because when is no one driving? Also, you were using the terms "lowest ride height" and "normal ride height" interchangeably which was a bit confusing. Normal height is not the lowest setting; the GC can lower itself below "normal" at highway speeds, in Sport Mode or for entry/exit.

[@ProdigalOverland]

Yep, it would have been better if we were both in the cars. I was able to slow it down and look at the footage frame by frame when we were both in the cars. My OR2 and his normal looked very similar when we were in the cars. And I was referring to the normal ride height. Because sport mode and park mode wouldn't be applicable in this situation. Sorry for the confusion.

[@anthonywarren3656]

Fun video. Appreciate you trying to take a scientific approach to the coil vs QL on the WK2.

[@ProdigalOverland]

Thanks for picking up on the fact that it was a fun video. Not really a super scientific one

[@off-roadingexplained8417]

You should try the diagonal oil change ramp test... It's like a poor man's corner travel index test... If you can put 7 inch rhino ramps diagonal from each other then your CTI is 280 or greater. Front travel plus rear travel ... Times 20... That's it.... Very simple measurement. I think if you pass that with the ramps then you just start sticking sheets of plywood under them or something that are 1 inch thick. And keep going. That's what I'd do. You probably won't get to 10 inches. That might be a record for independent suspension. With the setup that I've got.... I'm like a quarter of an inch off the ground at 36 PSI I'm going to test it again at like 25 psi and I bet I'll pass the test now... Rough Country 2 inch front lift , teraflex 2 inch rear. So it's a 4 corner 2 inch lift. The Teraflex rear, has shock extension brackets. I don't have those on yet. I'm VERY confident I'll pass the "oil change ramp test" when I get the shock extensions on and drop the tire pressure. That would be my other question about this test is if you guys have the same tire pressure. It looks like you have the same tires. Remember that your tires flexibility is part of your articulation also. I think this should be on every off-road vehicle review it's so easy to do... Such a simple question... Can you pass the oil change ramp test... That's basically it...

[@christopherwilson9140]

Next thing you want are sway bar disconnects 😉

[@ProdigalOverland]

I would like to know exactly how much that adds in the wk2

[@wilwynddoesnotcomply7436]

Jeep's/Chrysler's ride height is intended to make a hybrid on/off road vehicle that can do decent road performance and decent off-road performance. I got it so I can do a little of it all. That's the whole point. Manual disconnecting sway bar end links will help further articulation.

[@ProdigalOverland]

Agreed, Jack of all trades kind of thing.

[@jorgearias8023]

Where did the white Jeep get its side rails ?? I have a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit and have been looking with no luck

[@stephensmith3921]

I suspect that the articulation is more limited by the sway bar (same on these two?) than the springs. Might have been able to be more scientific on some loading ramps in an industrial park than in the dirt.

[@ProdigalOverland]

We work with what we have. 😁

[@GottaGoOutside]

Brad said "contralateral" - Yes he did!

[@ProdigalOverland]

😂

[@anthonyb755]

Really informative video. You explained this really well, thank you!

[@jaradderosa3252]

Best ever Brad. Thanks for the comparison. I like my air suspension for everything except off road. Though I appreciate the clearance, the ride and noise are just terrible. Granted I have an Overland package so it really isn’t the best for off-roading to begin with.

[@ProdigalOverland]

I'm glad it helped! Thanks for the feedback!

[@MsSpicynipples]

YEP the clunk noise when going over holes is awful and the higher you raise it the stiffer it gets. My parents have a wk2

[@MsSpicynipples]

great cars though as an all rounder

[@patrick5407]

@@MsSpicynipples I just took my WK2 Ecodiesel with QL off road for the first time last weekend.. and MAN was I annoyed by the constant clunking on all four corners of the air suspension. I tried every setting available. What the hell is the point of being 'trail rated' when the damn thing sounds like its not meant to be anywhere near a trail anything less than perfectly smooth?? Haha goodness i'm both relieved and bummed that there is nothing I can fix to improve this otherwise I would spend the coin.

[@MsSpicynipples]

@@patrick5407 my dads trick was to leave the car in the lower settings and only raise it all the wait up when necessary. He also got an alpha obd programmer to make custom height profiles, and mostly stays at the off road 1 height but he customized it to have a taller front end so like a leveling kit. You will hear the clunk the most in the tallest settings. The real solution is to swap to coil suspension with a lift but then you lose the benefit of adjustable right height and you’d be spending some thousands on it.

[@805gregg]

I saw a video where the Quadra Lift owner had installed a 2" lift kit so he could gain 4" of lift at off road 2, I would love to find a 1" lift kit to augment the air lift, giving a total of 3" at offroad 2

[@DjLoc]

Can't find it can you link it

[@eda7875]

Who cares. it is a GC not a Wrangler. Itll lift a tire no matter what.

[@isaiaspena8328]

But that limited looks like it’s stock height. I have a limited with the 2.5” lift strut and springs.. and it made a big difference. Maybe try same test with a lifted limited so that when your air suspension is maxed it would be more comparable

[@ironman142440]

Hi Isaias Pena. I am interested to hear more about the lift that you have and your impression of it. I have a limited with the rocky road outfitters spacer lift front and rear that gets me ~2.5" of ground clearance but not sure about articulation. Do you have a full on spring/shock lift kit with longer travel? Any thoughts on your articulation before/after your lift? And if you are super happy with it would you mind providing information on what lift you have? Thanks!

[@isaiaspena8328]

@@ironman142440 I have rough country’s spring and strut that also levels the jeep. I’m still running 31” Ko2s on stock wheels. They say I could run 33” tires but I might switch to a different tire. The set up I Have def helps with clearance even when I air down to 18-20psi. I think articulation hasn’t changed much, IMO

[@isaiaspena8328]

@@ironman142440 I am happy with the ride quality. Pretty much feels stock but tires hum a little. Both fronts and rears run about $600. Easy to install just need alignment after

[@dugdug007]

Aren't we really discussing suspension travel here ? The limit of the travel impacted by the air suspension in the Trail Hawk against other models ? If so why would they be different ?

[@xmo552]

We're splitting hairs here

[@ProdigalOverland]

We sure are!

[@Kmudaify]

I don't think there was a difference in articulation in ride height, rather your testing was not high enough for the difference in values between the different ride heights to prevent the difference in ride height from influencing the results. I.E. you will need to get the back wheel at least 3" off the ground at the lowest setting before testing to see the difference at the highest setting. You need to get the wheel high enough so that it's off the ground in all three settings to eliminate the natural difference in ride height.

[@abazdarhon]

If the air suspension is so bad on some one opinion why all new lorry, buses use it? Why most of Dakar cars and all lorry use it? If it will be so dangerous and bad They will not be use in Dakar. I found myself that my wk2 on road is amazing but if I take it off-road and rise suspension is awful, noisy and hard as rock. I use to have Nissan patrol on road it was crap off road it was pleasure to drive. It depend of application and if off road 1 on wk2 will be first position it will be amazing off road. But it is suv not build by design to do what we do lol

[@ProdigalOverland]

Yes Off road two is stiff

[@iechiefcherokee3807]

Would you ever consider trimming the fenders off the wk2 like the concept

[@savvaseleutheriades4688]

Hi Brad .. great videos! One question on this one though. Does your GC and Dennis' have the same tire sizes? I recall in a previous video of yours that you have gone with a taller profile for some extra clearance. I might be wrong but it looked to me that Dennis' rig might be running the standard 265/60R18? There might be a bit of a difference in sidewall heights which can influence the measurements when the wheel is in the air.

[@ProdigalOverland]

Yep we have one size larger 265 65 18. I believe it would be a wash as far as a comparison. What I mean by that is my wheel center to ground was taller up front that his was. ( he was closer the the ground up on the front wheel) So yes my back wheel would be taller in the back (advantage) but higher in front (disadvantage). When they actually do an official Ramp Travel Index score (RTI) score. They don't even look at the tore size. Its the wheel base that would effect this. which would have been the same for both vehicles. The official RTI test is not a test of ground clearance but articulation. Hope that helps some. Here is a link for more details if you are interested. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_travel_index

[@MrKozanitis]

Great comparison, Brad! I learned so much. Thanks.I assume you were both aired down to the same psi and had similar tires and wheels?

[@ProdigalOverland]

Glad it was helpful!

[@MrKozanitis]

Prodigal Overland as always!

[@fauziawaluyo]

I heard familiar engine noise from the Limited’s, is it a sign of one of the valve lifter start going bad?

[@jster91]

UGH. He didn't get out. Comparison is invalid.

[@anthonywarren3656]

Brad have you guys ever experienced any problem with wheel rubbing with those 275 tires (I think that is the size you mentioned you run) you are running while you are in Sport mode or Aerodynamic mode?

[@ProdigalOverland]

we run 265 65 18 tires

[@jre617]

In terms of on-road handling, I would not choose the air suspension (off-road pack). I find it too wallowy on curvy roads with bumps (of course, the GC was not designed to be a sports car). Also, the air suspension on my TH makes a weird groaning noise (compressor?) when starting or turning off the vehicle, leading me to worry about reliability.

[@ProdigalOverland]

I get the same sound as well with the compressor.

[@fahdabdulaziz5067]

Yeah that's normal. The car is leveling itself.

[@stefanoc4284]

Which size are the wheels ? Should be 265/50 20 but seem different...

[@ProdigalOverland]

They are 18 inch wheels

[@jbandt]

Wouldnt there also be a difference in ride height between the limited and the trail hawk? Even with the air ride down.

[@ProdigalOverland]

They should be pretty much the same with equal wheel and tires

[@keithhambek7464]

Do you change tire pressures? If so, what do you run at off road?

[@ProdigalOverland]

Usually the low 20’s. We have a while video on tires here somewhere ...

[@sean9267]

Thanks a bunch for the video. It showcased that the air suspension actually articulates slightly more than the stock coil suspension. You did a great job explaining the reasoning of your findings. My previous comment was more so pointing to aftermarket coil suspensions but I really thought stock coils would articulate more than Quadralift. It also answered another question I have not tested yet: articulation difference between the stock ride setting and OR2. The outcome there also made sense due to the airbags being more inflated, i.e. requiring more force to compress. Cheers, and happy wheeling.

[@ProdigalOverland]

I was happy to check this out. Like I said it wasn’t something I had thought much about. Not the most scientific testing but some fun and a bit of good info. Thanks for contributing!

[@rosssheasby2172]

We’re both WK2s Hemis? Wondering how much a weight difference up front might change suspension behavior.

[@rosssheasby2172]

And also, we’re tires the same size? As someone else mentioned, a hub to fender measurement would be more accurate. But I still think you showed that there isn’t really a difference. Which makes since as the engineers would be working to the same goal for any WK2 for performance and safety.

[@ProdigalOverland]

They were both the Hemi's

[@ProdigalOverland]

As far as the tire size Dennis I believe still has the 265 60 18 and we are running a slightly larger 265 65 18. Im not too sure that that would make much of a difference because it's not like there is a difference in tire size from front tires to rear tires. But regardless I think the main thing to see from this is that your aren't going to notice a significant difference out on the trails. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@rosssheasby2172]

@@ProdigalOverland Agreed! And thanks for putting this together. It was fascinating and eye opening.

[@chaseblacketer6724]

All that work and he didn’t get out of the car lol

[@john-okc450]

Home mechanics car ramps can allow repeatable results for cross axle testing of different settings and vehicles. One under front right, one under rear right. Regular ramps are a good starting point (6-7 inches). I then tried to use ramps that use bottle jacks to lift the top platform up to 14", but the the min height was 9" and that was already too much. The ones i bought are no longer made but check these out www.amazon.com/BestEquip-Hydraulic-11000lbs-Vertical-Profile/dp/B088GTCW9V/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=Car+Ramps&qid=1611146701&sr=8-6.

[@Golden_Teacher7]

failed test as you were in your jeep. not the same conditions.

[@PhatboyHD88]

Buddy come on that was the worst test i ever seen lol, you should have used a ramp on asphalt and got out of the jeep like he did .. that was seriously like a completely useless test .. and so ya know coils do flex more than air bags , and that is why every single jeep ever made to rock crawl uses coils lol.. entertaining yes thanks for the video scientific not in any way lol.. heck ya could have simply jacked up a wheel and measured center hub to fender..

[@ProdigalOverland]

So, As stated in the beginning of the video, the idea for this one came from a comment that the quadralift system was a dangerous choice as compared to the stock coil suspension because of the increased pitch and roll on the trails. I have never seen that difference with any of the folks we go out with and was hoping to show that fact out on the trail. I think we did show that the two stock suspensions are not wildly different in terms of the articulation they allow. And it was definitely meant to be more entertaining than a true controlled science experiment. As far as could vs airbags, yes of course a different aftermarket coil system could show more travel. But again that wasn't really what we were trying to prove. Thanks for engaging buddy.

[@jamesclark4]

Keyboard warriors 😂 he probably drives a honda civic

[@DefMusic79]

I think for 1 part you are kinda fos on they "don't flex" For something that only... Weighs almost as much as a big truck does. I think they do pretty darn good! Mine only weighs over 7K now due to heavier tires. I don't understand why the snow and sport mode? I've yet to notice any difference. Last thing is option 3 for "off-road" Lmao, I'd like to see it really used off-road. It's so beeping choppy. Hell, it could probably do a damn wheelie 🤣

[@DefMusic79]

I noticed the white Jeep looked like it was on stock ride, yours looked like off-road 2.

[@ProdigalOverland]

We tested mine in or2 and normal ride height to compare. His was stock height. Thanks for watching!

[@DefMusic79]

@@ProdigalOverland I believe I said that. Lol, so you really can't compare the 2.

[@rockabillyrebel9207]

Nice try but really a ramp would be best for a few reasons not least due to getting the right repeatable line each time as a slight angle changes matters a lot in your type of testing., Sadly you basically invalidated the QL results by sitting in it, looking at the video his jeep jumps at at least 2inch+ by getting out

[@ProdigalOverland]

For sure a ramp would have been more accurate but not available at the off road area we were at. For this video and really most of the videos we do, I'm trying to show that yes there are differences between engines, tires, suspensions however often those differences are not really a significant difference. In other words who cares if there is 1-2 inch difference in articulation when your back end is a couple feet off the ground ( as it was in the video the original comment came from). These small differences in articulation between the two stock suspensions may be fun to find but won't make one or the other more dangerous to have.

[@JC-zm1qe]

Air suspension is the best way to go

[@xmo552]

1st. Pop 🍒

[@shiftintohigh5564]

😮😮😎😡

[@macmurfy2jka]

Yeah, this test between the two vehicles wasn’t the greatest. Thanks for trying. Way too many variables not controlled for. Different tires Different pressures Different vehicles loads Driver error And no repeatability. More useful was the lift vs no air lift comparison. Now we know that if wheel lift is an issue on trail but clearance isn’t, don’t jack the Jeep up.

[@ProdigalOverland]

Yes there were lots of differences to make this a true controlled test. I was being a but sarcastic on all of the pure science stuff. However, I do think the video shows that neither of the two stock suspensions are so wildly different in terms of the articulation you get so as to be significant on the trails or make one more dangerous to have than the other. Which was the original comment that spawned the idea for this video. Thanks for watching and engaging in the conversations!!