Jeep Liberty Crank No Start - Part 1

This 2003 Jeep Liberty just had an engine replaced, and now it won't start!
A lot of variables to sort through here...so sit back, relax, grab some popcorn,and enjoy the show!

[@SouthMainAuto]

Oh man ... poor Big Al... errrrr I mean "Chuck". Some days ya get the bear and some days the bear gets you. Fantastic case study here, I wanna say more but I won't spoil any surprises :) Great investigation Ivan!

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

+South Main Auto Repair Ivan & you posting the same name video...thought I was seeing double

[@SouthMainAuto]

Hayward's Automotive Crazy camera trickery!

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Yours starts at least, his is going to need some parts swapping before that happens but both are going to get interesting!.

[@ahill007ny]

+Hayward's Automotive Yea me too!!!! I was like wait a minute... Did Ivan have the car towed to SMA :) These Jeep Liberty are dejavu for me I just did a water pump and thermostat on this same year. All was well until the thermostat screw snapped off -_- #BadDay

[@zoidberg444]

+Hayward's Automotive Illuminati confirmed.

[@18888888888888888886]

been there a longtime ago...the camshaft tone wheel is different and the reluctor wheel of the 03 has 16 teeth while a 04 has 32... they are both 3.7 the are the same engine BUT with few design differences.

[@todayintheshopbanksy5904]

'There's your problem lady' lol

[@Cavalier_Steve]

Big Al sound like fun to speak to. Nice video as always Iven can't wait for part 2.

[@wysetech2000]

I never relax when I watch your video's and I'm outta popcorn. I guess I will have to eat something else. One thing I have learned with Chrysler is to be very careful that you swap an engine from the exact year and model or the shit will hit the fan.

[@joelmccoin9727]

WOW, Jeeps are bustin all over the east coast, well I bet everywhere.

[@zensterful]

Well O Well O Well!!!!!! this is a perfect example how you can get slid on an engine swap with a just one year apart. Hope part 2 will show some Ivans ingenuity for Chuck to climb out of a hole.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Zenmaister11 S I'll do my best! But yeah, someone forgot to do their homework before getting the toolbox out lol

[@Docoski]

You and Eric are tag teaming us!!! Lol

[@motorcyclesandridingfree2899]

I have seen wrong gears on chryslers often with engine swaps usually it's the 3.8 v6 where you get either wrong Cam gear or Wrong flywheel or broken. That's where the scope really saves the day.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Techman 48917 Yup can't do too much here without a scope, that's for sure.

[@dyizhere]

Nice find!

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Homemade pressure transducer impressive

[@deepsquat600]

between you and Eric you smashed on Jeep today

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Nice find Yep Definitely a Timing Issue Way Off From top dead Center makes me wonder if the crank sensor is reading Wrong 🤔🤔

[@billymccagh5800]

Hi Ivan saw you with Eric O thought I would tune in and see what your up to nice work so far

[@TheDisgruntledMechanic]

FYI-careful with background music. They flagged me for it in videos! another great video Ivan.

[@koffibanan3099]

+The Disgruntled Mechanic 25 or 6 to four our our!!!

[@fieldsofomagh]

That scope is burning some mean rubber !!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Tom OConnor Had one channel left on reserve haha

[@wtbm123]

Good video

[@schwartzenheimer1]

Goobers in the background, very nice...

[@sixpacksandsrts9122]

Tell big al. I mean chuck that he's the man ;)

[@Mikeywil0003]

They changed computer systems around that time on the 3.7 and 4.7. There is a 3 plug (JTEC) and a 4 plug (NGC) computer. The tone wheel on the crank has an early style that has 16 teeth that only works with the JTEC, and the later has 32 teeth that only works with the NGC. The bottom end of the engine needs to be disassembled to change the tone wheel, the crankshaft has to be removed. The tone wheel on the cam is different, but that is easier to change. If your not against ghetto rigging it, take the 16 tooth tone wheel off the junk motor, and bolt/weld it to the balancer, and rig up the crank sensor to work, you also need to change the cam gear for that to work. The only other options would be, take apart the motor, get another motor, or swap the computer and wiring harness.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Michael Williams Dang you guys sure did your homework! Everything will become very clear in Part 2 :)

[@Starcrunch72]

+motoYam82 hmmm....I smell Chrysler Factory Service techs in the above comment thread...lol

[@leebarnes655]

This sort of underhanded dealing is gonna make Chuck quit trying to do these kinds of engine swaps lightly. By the time you jury-rig two sensors to make it all work, it's almost not worth going there to start with just to squeeze another 50,000 out of one vehicle. Shoulda overhauled the other engine? As always, eager for part two.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Michael Williams Damn engineers!

[@carslover3509]

+Michael Williams that exactly what im saying friend

[@medievil1]

as soon as you said an 04 engine, I knew the issue, have to change the hardware cause 04 does a different sequence than 03

[@wyattoneable]

That's a great find! Part two...but who will be first!

[@humidbeing]

Only a few minutes in but I'm guessing they changed the reluctor wheel configuration between the years.

[@charlesdiaz6974]

I don't like this guy talking and breathing on your neck you're so polite I don't know what school you went to learn all this are you had a good teacher thank you for the video you need you need to be on your own so you can concentrate on your computer did learn a few things from you you know a lot thank you once again

[@eleazarrodriguez6467]

the cam and crank reluctor wheel are diferent between engines

[@upallnight888]

You need to beep out all the expletives. LOL

[@Adam-bw4lw]

No no for stupid beep sound ...... Ivan do not beep that out. it ruins the atmosphere LOL :))

[@SteveRobReviews]

I watching and learning, ha I haven't a clue. Nice one buddy....

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+STEVE ROB As ScannerDanner would say, "It's an input problem!" :)

[@Blazer02LS]

+motoYam82 Yep, Very common one as well. It's a popular topic on the Jeep forum I frequent. There are also a couple changes if the engine comes out of a Dodge Vs Jeep.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Blazer02LS My question is why are so many people doing engine swaps in these things? They're not even that old!! Replace junk with more junk lol?

[@Blazer02LS]

+motoYam82 So far mine has gone 200,643 miles without a lot of trouble. One thing a lot of folks don't pay attention to with the 3.7 or the 4.7 is these want 92 octane fuel or they have issues. It's in the owners manual but you know how often those are read. Run 87 or worse 85 and they heat up enough to cause problems. Dropped valve seats and heat causing the valve springs to sag are common. Mercedes didn't take the average US buyer into account when they put this engine on the market.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I bet your Blazer will outlast these things by a long shot with the hardy Vortec 4.3 under the hood :)

[@johnc4352]

Hi Ivan, can you give us an explanation of the patterns and the functions of those cam windows? Did you ever do a video on them? Thanks.

[@carslover3509]

change the engine change the ecu if you not you got wrong because the programing to the timing case is different friend ,,,,, great work

[@philh9238]

on the verus how do you turn the volts/division setting on in the scope?? just picked one up

[@ozzstars_cars]

A wtf moment, we have all been down that road!..... sucks when manufacturers make those small changes from year to year.

[@MaicSalazarDiagnostics]

Hope the crank signal pattern is the same! You should consider that as well!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Maic Salazar Will be covered in Part 2 :)

[@mph5896]

Wonder if that old engine was usable with a head job? They drop the valve seats then the roller rockers fall out.

[@embreesmith7613]

freakin' awesum job, Ivan .. :) lucky to have the old motor soooo ... what exactly did the Hollender Interchange say about the engine compatibility ..? my guess is this never entered into the used engine purchase , eh ..??

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

cam sprocket notches are different between Years Will definitely cause no start

[@Mebob2001]

ouch....that sucks...... being a fellow tech that one stings a little. time to swap cam gears or cam's :) hoping the lobes are the exact same

[@chungaleta1234]

I thought you and Eric had posted the same video on both channels.... I thought the Dynamechanic Duo was up for another battle against evil Dr Engine.

[@ponyhorse127]

Hi Ivan!!!!....those two engines have different timing sprokets right??? and I guess the two engines are VVT´s!!!! Swap them will mean tons of work!!!! and still may not run at all....what about swaping PCM´s and engine wiring harness only???....Check wiring compatibility first (sort of speak) or reprogram or complete reflash PCM from zero!!!...because taking the camshafts out in both engines, I dont know, its better work in overhaull the old engine and keep the new one complete and untouched....I guess!!!! Today nothing is like the old days when you could swap engines in half hour and keep racing!!!!! Those days are gone!!!!

[@MaicSalazarDiagnostics]

Ivan the pattern on the crank for the 03 to 04 are different! Check the video on Eric channel! He is working on a Jeep 03!

[@mariaevans7622]

The whole timing com set rods mains

[@calholli]

It looks to be 180 degrees out.. I wonder if they accidentally swapped sides/ banks with their harness.

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

It's a race to see who can post the Jeep Liberty Crank No Start Part II first!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Hayward's Automotive Or a conspiracy... ;)

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

+motoYam82 You're getting good at engine changes with non-interchangeable harnesses and cam/crank signals not synched! Camshaft tone wheel & reluctor wheel change & it'll run.

[@acarl-lo5tg]

I think Part 2 is going to be REAL interesting! Last words at the end of part 1 was for Chuck to swap the camshaft sprocket from the 2003 engine and put it on the 2004 engine in the Jeep. I hope Ivan thought about this some more and stopped Chuck from doing this sprocket swap. If he does the sprocket swap the 2004 engine will have the 32 tooth crank reluctor sprocket mated to a 2003 cam shaft sprocket and 2003 engine controller software. The 2003 engine used a 16 tooth sprocket. This is a mismatch and the engine still may not start or if it starts it might not run properly. I am thinking that the only way "out of this hole" is to replace the broken valve train components on the 2003 engine with like parts from the 2004 engine. Then remove the 2004 engine and reinstall the 2003 engine in its original home. Wait and see.

[@hxc7273]

I would love to see how you put that homemade transducer together and what parts you used. I'm in the market for a transducer.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Nick Johnson Hey Nick, I'm actually selling them at $250 a pop. PM me if interested!

[@biggpoppa6190]

06 jeep liberty doing th same exact thing just today turning over but won't start. Almost starts up sometimes b won't start. Please help.

[@BlazerGuy1983]

How many miles did the old engine have and what happened to it that made him change it ?

[@dc5723]

Could it be that Chrysler changed the crank window pattern between different years or the crank position sensor is bad?

[@bobmoy3406]

Check Eric O video. He have a good Cam/Crank signal waveform for a 2003 Jeep Liberty. Your crank signal and cam waveform doesn't match Eric's waveform. The cam is 1 2 3 1 3 2. The crank waveform shows 4 notches then a space. Best to replace an engine with the same year. Maybe getting a 2004 PCM, if all the pins match is the easy way to get this engine running.

[@killerclown1740]

How much did your home made pressure transducer cost you ? I was thinking of building one my self.

[@volvo09]

Awesome diagnosis. this is where not doing homework before an engine swap really bites ya. I feel bad for the guy, he's gotta f'n hate electronics!!

[@mergeform]

Both engines are vin K, to avoid the mistake you might call an auto recycler they have a Hollander interchange manual.

[@honestdaves]

+Michael Mirro a quick check on part interchange is to look it up on car-part.com, and see what years the junk yards are listing for the part or engine you need.

[@ericparent7794]

Hi Ivan, I'm just at the start of the video, but I immediately noticed that you just said that the old motor had the intake air temp sensor in the intake, and the new one has it in the air supply tube, but it shouldn't make a difference. I'm not a mechanic, I just like working on cars as a hobby, so keep in mind that I may be way off here... The air temp sensor's purpose is to allow the computer to determine the air density, from what I understand... If it's still the original computer, and it expects the air temp sensor to be in the intake, wouldn't the readings be completely skewed due to the vast pressure difference (and thus vast density difference) between the vacuum pressure air in the intake and the atm pressure air in the supply tube?? I realize it's pretty obvious so you probably picked that up immediately also and ruled it out, but I'm just curious about that. Cheers, Eric P.

[@upallnight888]

Perhaps you should swap a 04 PCM so that it will recognize the 04 cam position windows.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Upallnight That thought crossed my mind, until I looked at the PCMs...completely different connectors and pinouts. Not an option here unfortunately...

[@Greenskycity]

wonder if the crank wheel is gonna be different, what do you do then?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Jason Beattie Great question.

[@robertreyes8662]

how did you make the pressure transducer

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

F'n magic!

[@jdean399]

Hi Ivan, when you see a code sensor voltage high, what do you think, short to ground?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Jonathan Dean I would think a short to ground would set a "Voltage Low" code...

[@jsohn18436572]

code sensor high normally means an open circuit somewhere be it a broken wire, open sensor, or missing ground.

[@dyizhere]

When I saw those cam windows were different, I questioned if the crank reluctor wheels were the same. I guess part 2 will tell the rest of the story.

[@user-fk6jx1gy2i]

привет. очень интересный случай, и очень интересно узнать про датчик давления, он что самодельный? можно подробнее.

[@adampoconnor]

I have to say I was awfully confused when I saw two Jeep Liberties with crank no-start, one from you and the other from Eric. The inconvenience of Chrysler spreads out from just the vehicles themselves

[@troutjunkie7330]

Can you please make a video about that home made transducer. They cost a fortune.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Astro Camper Better yet I can send you one for the low price of $250! Comes with an autographed business card :)

[@troutjunkie7330]

For $250 I will just stick my finger in the plug hole and hope for the best. Maybe I can time the bones breaking with my scope.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

haha that will work too in a pinch!

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Intriguing Issues

[@randygudeahn7304]

2 Jeeps with problems separated by 3 hours....there's your problem lady!

[@theoldwizard998]

I want to see your electronic compression tester !

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+theoldwizard998 It's just a little black box with a switch on it...not much to see there lol

[@theoldwizard998]

+motoYam82 Did you buy it or make it ?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

made it from scratch :)

[@theoldwizard998]

+motoYam82 Time to do a Dave Jones Teardown Tuesday ! Maybe even a little DaveCAD !!

[@rockynix7731]

Do you know what your doing ? Might wanna let Paul show you how it's done ... LoL

[@brianmacmac1000]

This should be a good lesson,,this is way i quite swappen engines,,and retired from this nightmare." fix it with your iphone"

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+BrianMac Mac I think Big Al was ready to retire after this nightmare. He said: "Ivan, I'm gonna sell my tools and drive a school bus" HAHA

[@KRTube75]

perhaps he should pop the rocker back in and reinstall the old engine.

[@mariaevans7622]

I will say wrong crank reluctor wheel swap them been there done that

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

+Maria Evans Does that involve removing the crankshaft?

[@sixpacksandsrts9122]

Do you and sma doing same minute uploads with same titles now. Yea buddy

[@shawnrobinson5156]

Wrong tone wheel on crankshaft

[@philh9238]

nm found pdf manual on google

[@EJ22bakadesu]

Not starting: it's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't get it.

[@ozzstars_cars]

+lhutton lol