Jeff Foster - how would you know if you are enlightened?

This is an excerpt from the interview with Jeff Foster at the Science and Nonduality Conference 2010 featured in the 3DVD set "Science and Nonduality Anthology Vol.2". In this clip Jeff talks about if we can ever know if we are enlightened. www.scienceandn... & www.lifewithout...

[@leaholiviacooper5309]

I understand what he's pointing to here. He emphasizes *you* in "you will never know." He's saying that in enlightenment, who we think we are, the *you* dies, and something else that was covered up by the idea of self is unveiled. That's why *you* will never know.. because you will no longer be there...

[@scienceandnonduality]

The temple bell stops. But the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. ~ Basho

[@feriwarlock]

You should check out Stephen Batchelor's "Buddhism Without Beliefs." He essentially distills Buddhism down to those aspects that comport with science and reason, such as the notion of sunyata or emptiness. Things are empty because they are dependently originated (pratityasamutpada). He discards the ideas of karma and rebirth and the mythology that surrounds them.

[@tinabrown1397]

You know if your enlightened, when your enlightened. It is hard to explain. There are moments when I feel it! Your brain wakes up! And see the world as its true self!

[@magisimon4873]

He is teaching people to accept life as it is without any meditation practice. Actually only when our focus is deep within , we can be in the presence fully and respond to life well. Without any inner evolution, people would be more distracted and not capable of accepting life as it is. This inner evolution happens through meditation.

[@tinabrown1397]

You'll hear the birds, feel the moon, if you stay still long enough youll beable to fill the earth!

[@SaraK_69]

I watched this both stoned and sober yet still I have learned nothing. Unfortunately, Jeff is not a spiritual leader, but he is enlightened indeed.

[@scienceandnonduality]

I would actually say: "if you believe/think you are enlightened you are not enlightened"... :-)

[@Adymus]

A light bulb's illumination is bright relative to a candle, and dim relative to a star. No one said anything about the journey ending, enlightenment is just the beginning.

[@GregoryWonderwheel]

Saying "you have no way of knowing" is a sticky tray of glue. What does he mean by "you"? If he means "you" is equal to "delusion", then "delusion has no way of knowing" makes sense. But if by "you" he means "wisdom" or "knowing" or "awareness" then "awareness has no way of knowing" is a statement asserted by delusion. And what is meant by "way". If "way" means fixed formula then "you have no fixed formula of knowing." If "way" means the mind, then n truth "you have the mind of knowing."

[@hydrogenroar]

Jeff has neither added to nor subtracted from my understanding.

[@scienceandnonduality]

:-) "Reason" has nothing to do with the topic of enlightenment... getting into basics here... I leave you with your belief which is as valid as mine (which is not even a believe). Have you read "I Am That"? It worked for me... :-)

[@Sebastiaan75]

There is so much emphasis on the phenomenon 'knowing' that we tent to think there is still something to do to get there, while you can only be it...

[@toddboothbee1361]

That there is a limit to how far down you can peel the onion of reflection is profound because often overlooked.

[@scienceandnonduality]

My apologies, maybe I did not get it at first... Are you saying you are enlightened? :-)

[@Flashback_Jack]

@dancingwithcalvin "Of course you would know." Knowledge only occurs when there's consciousness. Enlightenment is neither conscious nor unconscious, but a completely different paradigm, so truthfully there's no knowing in the conventional sense but a direct perception that is unfiltered and not apart from what you consider yourself to be at that stage.

[@Basilfilmer]

I am more enlightened than yesterday and less enlightened than tomorrow. Hopefully.

[@3rdeyeshine94]

Enlightenment is a path not a destination you just learn how to stay in that path... it's not the path to Enlightenment is the path of enlightenment

[@CureCode1]

Why practice for 40 years, if who you are is already perfect? Who is practicing and for what really?

[@dason5408]

You can never know because when you are enlightened there is no you. After you reemerge from enlightenment however there is a memory of enlightenment. So ofcourse you would know.

[@xPhreaky]

why does it seem to me that you expect some complicated answer for something so inherently simple to us?

[@Adymus]

You don't have a single reason to believe you might be right? Why would you claim something if you have no reason to believe it's true?

[@zatoichiable]

Never learn certainty and englightenment from those who doubt.

[@atgunchev]

By this "you will never know" answer Jeff affirms a meaningless question. This is bullshit. You can't answer correctly a wrong question. There is neither "you", nor "enlightenment" in the first place. That's the whole point. He is easily drawn into the duality realm of the question. It's like asking "how would you know there are no flying pink unicorns" and answering "well, you will never know". It's a stupid meaningless question, not worthy of reply. It's obvious there aren't..

[@TheWickedCreator]

What's the song at the beginning? It's so touching!

[@Adymus]

We were not talking the topic of enlightenment, we were talking about the topic of qualification, which reason has everything to do with. If you claim something, you should have a reason that you believe it to be true. What I am asking you is, why do you believe you are qualified to teach what is and is not enlightenment, if you are not enlightened yourself?

[@toddboothbee1361]

I thought that one symptom of a moment of enlightenment is that I stop talking to my imaginary friends, stop talking and arguing with my self, which is imaginary and unstable.

[@Flashback_Jack]

@m1ss3f0rtun3 Knowing is a subject-object affair. So actually he's correct. Enlightenment is the elimination of the conscious -- the destruction of the knower-known pair. If anyone claims to know they're enlightened, they essentially state that they aren't.

[@Adymus]

Is that what you would say? And what makes you think you are qualified to make that call?

[@feriwarlock]

Even the Dalai Lama has said that he is not enlightened. And really, who cares one way or the other? The path is the destination. That is, if you need a designated destination.

[@vegetablepolice1]

I know that I don't know that is how I know I see it

[@Adymus]

That is the implication, yes.

[@Adymus]

If you don't know if you are enlightened, you are not enlightened.

[@CureCode1]

Les, what you are is not an experience, so how can you experience that which is not an experience? Why do you judge jeffs answer, when you dont know yourself?

[@scienceandnonduality]

...nothing... :-) The same nothing that is qualifying every word coming out of every mouth... :-)

[@dancingwithcalvin]

Of course you would know. But their are different levels, see. Read up on Dr. Hawkin's scale of consciousness.

[@dancingwithcalvin]

@FBJ416 Very true, actually. thank you. Are you familiar with Doctor David Hawkings?

[@toddboothbee1361]

In a sense, ordinary mentation/consciousness is madness.

[@jonsmith4669]

When the you as a person is no more but there will be a personality the "you" recorded in the brain for a while ,but that's all it is,a recording of an worn out old disc labelled "I me " and like an old disc, one day it becomes unplayable . Something knows this and that is Brahman, Self, no one ever existed accept as an idea ,there is only Existence itself It is so close yet everywhere in this ,that ,and everything.

[@RawLoveRaw]

Classic 'talking school'. We could put Polly the Parrot sitting there with a week or two of training and she could repeat those words. In fact she might be more convincing. :) What I would like to see is this guy and all the other talkers in a real situation like a large hornet buzzing around their faces or some other equally harmless yet scary situation. I don't imagine there would be much enlightenment then. McDonalds/Burger king spirituality.

[@auea3446]

It sounds to me like he's saying awareness doesn't know itself as pure awareness. That consciousness is in fact not self knowing. Maybe you should find another teacher if this one is yours. Awareness have in fact never known anything other than itself. Rupert Spira for president! :)

[@ivogody]

auea he has 2 votes already

[@skedi33]

auea the problem is here, that you try to understand what he says with your mind

[@Junker-kr4sd]

Well that was anti climatic...

[@sarahkoh1904]

slight.crush. he's so cute!

[@m1ss3f0rtun3]

You would never know? that's his answer? well, it looks like he doesn't even know what he's talking about,, he made that up. I've seen about 4 videos of 4 different people talking about spirituality and the self and all these metaphysical concepts, but none of them sounded convincing at all... This video in particular seems like the worst question from the interview was the one chosen, pity for Mr. Foster XD

[@shunyam56]

So forget about enlightenment, forget about everything! What I am asking you is: What's in your fridge, Adymus? (Btw, in mine fridge there is only spoiled ketchup, damn!) PS However it seems that the best way to learn is to teach, so no problem!

[@Adymus]

The Dalai Lama is not Enlightened for the same reason the Pope is not the all Knowing second in command to God. Climbing up the ladder of a religious hierarchy will not lead anyone to Spiritual Enlightenment. I'm sure that's what the Religions want you to assume, but it's not the reality. If Buddhism was the sure-fire path to Enlightenment, then the Buddhists would be Enlightened. Perhaps it's time we stop assuming the old-world religions are the authorities on such matters.

[@claytonmoss1]

Fake

[@XavierLAC]

I don't know who this guy is but when I am enlightened I feel like my fingers are in the electrical socket. Of course you would know.