Does the First Castlevania Hold Up? | Ranking the NES, Episode 20

[@DarkLadyMarie]

my weekly dose of "Is this game better than Dynowarz: Destruction of Spondylus"

[@BunnySuicida]

Dynowarz: Destruction of Spondylus is now my benchmark for all things. "Is this coffee better than Dynowarz: Destruction of Spondylus?"

[@octocoq]

It’s no Low G Man: The Low Gravity Man

[@nuclearjones7072]

Minor correction: This is basically the first Castlevania, the MSX version followed close behind the famicom game. The 68k release is a souped up remake released many years later.

[@ice_queen9]

the lack of air control in those first three castlevanias combined with the gigantic knockback is so brutal lol. watching as your character makes a jump that you realize is doomed like a millisecond after you hit the button and there's nothing you can do about it now

[@AuspexAO]

Castlevania 3 does give you Grant and Alucard to help you skip and cheese certain maps, making it a bit easier.

[@MikeyDAngelo]

My Mom was really into Spot: The Video Game. We rented it a bunch of times for her. Easily the best 7up game.

[@francinethagard875]

I played Castlevania 1 for the first time a couple years ago and had a blast with it. Some of the most fun I had with a game that year. I think what I liked about it was how it was less about reflexes and more about slowly figuring out the best path through the game. "I want to grab this item here and then hold onto it until I get to this boss." "I want to wait here for about 3 seconds until this enemy spawns in and then I'll jump." You learn something new that'll help you on each run. Less like Mario, more like an RPG or even (that's right!) Dark Souls. And then I tried to play Simon's Quest and thought it was designed by space aliens.

[@egilland]

Rollergames is a predecessor of Kaizo games. It is pure rote memorisation and muscle memory. I suffered with that game for 3 years until I finally beat it and I fucking love it.

[@VirtuaCat]

There's a reason why that water level of Rollergames is used as a "get fucked" level on Arcade Pit

[@bertplus]

It's always fun to wonder the 'why' behind antagonistic NES game design. Rare knew what they were doing with Battletoads, which somehow I find more annoying.

[@joshlemagne]

Because if they worked like modern games where you could beat everything on the first try they would last fifteen minutes.

[@JazGalaxy]

There is no such thing as “antagonistic game design”. It was called “challenge” and it existed because, as hard as it is for modern gamers to understand, that was the selling point. The original Zelda lists “challenge” in the box at least three times. That used to be a REASON to play a game. Many sequels used to advertise themselves as being more fiendishly difficult than the last. And, no, it’s not just videogames and has nothing to do with how games are made or the perceived value. In the 1800s, crossword puzzles were a national phenomenon that took America by storm. Everyone was doing crossword puzzles all of the time, and they differentiated themselves by advertising how challenging they could be. The New York Times became famous for having the most cleverly difficult puzzles, which is why crosswords are still associated with the NYT today. Challenge and difficulty only started to be prohibitively frustrating when the challenge of games started BLOCKING other things, like a story someone wanted to see progress. As games became/become more of mere vehicles for story, the more frustrating it become when gameplay gets in the way.

[@Renoistic]

I'm sorry but Battletoads is and was a badly designed game. Castlevania is better designed even if I hate the knockback after a hit. Just having infinite continues makes it a lot more bearable without being too easy. Never beat the clock tower though.

[@AmyZonkers]

@@Renoistic Battletoads is considered to be one of the best NES games of all time.

[@JazGalaxy]

@@AmyZonkersI don’t think that’s really true. Do people have find memories of battle toads? Yes. Was it a creative and brilliantly thought out game world? Yes. Was it broken to and nearly unplayable? Yes. To the point where it’s literally impossible to beat the game two player due to a glitch. A game can be a broken mess and be beloved. But I don’t think anyone thinks it’s one of the “best” anything.

[@jonathogm]

I think Castlevania would be my number one from the games that are on the list so far.

[@Budaniel]

I'm not a shoot 'em up fan, but I was instantly charmed by Dragon Spirit. The intro story, the music, the increased firepower being shown by an increased number of dragon heads... it looked really slick. Also, at 10:06 that blind jump in Roller Games sending Jeff into almost 30 seconds of head shaking silence was relatable as hell 😄 EDIT: That droning motor hum and repetitive tire skid squeaks in Micro Machines was almost too much to handle lol

[@greenmkyd]

I love Dragon Spirit, I had the NES version, one of the few NES games I actually owned as a poor kid. I still go back to it from time to time, and put arcade and NES versions on my modded A1up cab. Jeff says it is too easy, lol, I don't think I've ever even seen the Glacier level, despite all the playtime. He is awfully good at shmups. I probably like it so much because I'm not that great at shmups and it is playable for me.

[@jgrocket]

There's a Basiscape interview translated over on Shmuplations that had both Manabu Namiki (just about every game by Cave, designer of GG Aleste 3, etc.) and Hitoshi Sakimoto (FF12, FF Tactics, Radiant Silvergun, etc.) naming the soundtrack to Dragon Spirit as a huge influence on their work. It's a wild inflection point for the future of game soundtracks. (They probably mean the arcade version, though.)

[@xahpookx]

I got Castlevania along with my NES for Christmas back in the day and my brothers and I played it so much... None of us ever got past the Death fight. Game is hard as hell. It's probably the single game I'm the most nostalgic for on the platform though.

[@daneofurexistence]

Kinda fun seeing how high Dragon Spirit got! I had that game as a kid and always enjoyed it 🙂

[@CielBlanche]

Castlevania is absolutely the most cerebral platformer in the way that everything about it is designed to encourage forethought. The whip and enemy movements demand good spacing and timing. The recovery frames on attacks and jumps demand anticipation of what will happen in the next few moments after you press a button, not just the immediate need. Sometimes this is misconstrued as accidental or unintentionally clumsy, like it's product of underdeveloped craft that you can't change directions midair or that you can't cancel out of an attack animation -- but that's underestimating the intelligence behind the game. It's an incredible, methodical experience that isn't just about reflexes, it's about carefully considering your character's place in space and time, which is ever-shifting by the frame. Learning to play Castlevania 1 well can even instill good fundamentals for something like fighting games. Modern action games would do well to have even a fraction of the understanding of action that Castlevania did; startup frames, active hitbox frames, recovery frames, enemy placement, level construction, and the way that the limitations on character capabilities can define the thought process demanded of the player. There are too many shapeless games now, where you can cancel from any action into any other action, sacrificing any potential for satisfying foresight and committal to serve a childish need to have everything on-demand. The abundance of modern dodge rolls and dashes with invincibility frames eliminate most interesting positional considerations, reducing defensive gameplay to rhythm button-pressing minigames. It's fucked up that Castlevania in 1986 was so much farther ahead in so many ways than a lot of the stuff we play now

[@jquarles87]

Brilliant comment that articulates so much of what I've felt going back to these classics in 2024.

[@therealbluedragon]

As a longtime fan of the Micro Machines games, I agree we are all extremely bad people.

[@ice_queen9]

i'm pretty sure i remember ninja gaiden giving you air control, but the way enemies infinitely respawn if you take a step backwards makes that probably an even more brutal platformer. that should be interesting to watch too

[@Zuhzuhzombie]

Castlevania zombies always remind of Black Sabbath Volume 4.

[@hikaruk.981]

Let's go even deeper down the rabbit hole. Who else worked on Rollergames? Masato freaking Maegawa and Norio freaking Hanzawa. Two of the driving forces behind Treasure.

[@scottcorso9247]

😮

[@jgrocket]

The subcontractor NES to Treasure pipeline runs deep, and it culminates in Bucky O' Hare!

[@devmas]

In arcade games ported to the NES, I often notice when the developers try to translate every cool effect the arcade game does to the NES, and it doesn't quite work or appears a bit janky due to NES limitations. Dragon Spirit is a very good example of this. TMNT 2 does this in parts as well, and it's one reason why I prefer TMNT3, which was specifically made for the NES, not an arcade port.

[@Goblin_Hunter87]

Good Castlevania rank! Awesome game!

[@ChrisLT]

Time to track down Here Comes the Snow. I assume comes might be spelled differently.

[@TechnoSyndro]

There's actually a Japanese revision of Castlevania 1 with an easy mode that gets rid of the knockback, it's included in that collection Konami put out. It makes all of the platforming completely trivial, but that can make for a chill time.

[@josephbustamante4774]

Seeing Spot for the first time jogged back mid-90s memories of the microscope puzzle in The 7th Guest where you had to position blood cells to infect adjacent cells.

[@pointblank0020]

This game is the reason why the bones move on their own! They love those jams!!

[@MarkAltosaar]

I saw a Castlevania VS machine at an arcade bar in Providence once. That is my inspirational and extremely useful comment.

[@pwnskies]

The boss music on Dragon Spirit was awesome! I wish the bosses lived for longer than 3 seconds so I could hear it longer.

[@vincentlee8787]

I literally said "what the fuck" the same time you did during Rollergames. Imagine being that pilot, flying a whole-ass attack helicopter armed with rockets, unable to kill a lone roller skater. That is the kind of thing you do not mentally recover from.

[@IgnatiusAlpha]

Man, Rollergames sure is something. Straight outta the school of pattern memorization like Battletoads. Dragon Spirit seems neat, but Micro Machines is not. The grievances you brought up with Micro Machines could be applied to RC Pro Am, but RC Pro Am is still more fun to play. Camerica made one fun game that I'm not sure you've played yet: I loved Fire Hawk as a kid and still do. I thought Spot was going to be an 8-bit version of Cool Spot, but boy was I wrong. I can relate the most to Castlevania though. I never beat it since I didn't take the time to get the boss encounters down exactly with the correct subweapons for each fight. A legendary game with a fair ranking on the list, though. I personally liked the sequels better. Simon's Quest was a cool, ambitious game, but the awful translation kneecaps it. Castlevania III is more difficult at times, but more fun to play, in my opinion, and the series peaked with Symphony of the Night...but that's another console for another time. Onto #21!

[@heathe3529]

The Dragons Dogma references just make me excited for Jeff to check out the sequel

[@averyy_1]

The jumping flea guys, that cause most gamers to punch the closest drywall, are part of Castlevania's charm, Jeff.

[@BDreGameplay]

I've been in a Castlevania mood recently. I got a Blu-ray set of seasons 1 through 4 of The Animated series. And I've been playing a ton of Blasphemous 2, hopefully you've played that!

[@octocoq]

Yet one more video closer to Metal Storm

[@Mrster]

Rollergames, memorized the first few levels, knew which character to use per level. Box art was dope. 9:48 once you figured out that you are safe if you stick to the edge it's a cakewalk

[@gameboi8417]

The fun part of micro machines is being the kid who owns it and then playing it during the sleepover because you know all the tracks already. I never knew roller games was based on a show, but the NES game has vibes for days, love that bad game.

[@AndrewMione]

I don't get Geoff's utter disdain for dig dug 2. It's not cheap or broken in any way. The music is okay. It's just a totally average game, but he really seems to hate it. 🤷

[@houdin654jeff]

“Sir, lady in jumpsuit is proceeding along the broken highway… on roller skates!” “Summon the skate punks, get in touch with the motorcycle hoods and fuel the attack chopper.”

[@OrinLinwe]

...I can concede that Rollergames isn't good. However, I have really good memories of it, and I think it's partly because I liked rollerskates as a kid but very rarely got to skate (grew up in the country, with dirt-roads and coarse asphalt; neither which works with soft-plastic child-quality rollerskates). As "modes of locomotion" for your character, it's pretty unique, and the game coincided with some roller-skate-heavy tv-series I liked as a kid, on top of being one of the first instances of getting to pick a gender to play, and feeling it was pretty c-word to cruise around as a high-femme girl, beating up enemies (something I would also appreciate with the Streets of Rage series; so many hours playing as Blaze and backwards-handstand-kicking thugs). The endless continues absolutely did help, and I'm pretty sure I ended up eventually beating it by just hacking at it. Pretty alright music too.

[@Alucard-A-La-Carte]

It is FASCINATING to hear that Castlevania was originally an arcade game, because it ALWAYS felt like a game that was trying to steal quarters from me.

[@KRMedley]

Also made a Rollergames Pinball Machine

[@OneDollarWilliam]

I imagine Evil Walrus having one of those incomprehensible metal band logos, but instead of a dead bush it looks like a pile of tusks.

[@hankkingsley2792]

Issac Rankem DDS

[@MissAshley42]

YEAH!

[@threeo8314]

Jesus that helicopter section in Rollergames is just damn near 40 seconds of that shit.

[@BDreGameplay]

Another reason you need to do a turbografx 16 ranking series. So we can see the good version of dragon spirit.

[@constitution51]

I haven't laughed that hard by watching this rollergames science project in a long time

[@JobbyFraggle]

Snow Bros made me physically ill just watching it

[@johnwestendorf]

I wish Gremlins 2 got more time. I was interested to see if it changed over the game. Rollergames and scrolling shooters are pretty rote.

[@beatchef]

Gremlins 2 is pretty decent. The levels are quite varied and the bosses are great

[@thewrathofconn]

gigantic shouts to bearfoot

[@AnimatedAF]

I once played 4-player micro machines 96 on a SINGLE stage involving a kitchen sink and a sponge floating on the water for almost TEN hours (and lots of booze) straight. If you tried to drive around the sink rather than ride the sponge the game wouldn't know what to do and throw the camera everywhere and give the points to a seemingly random player. Yes, all four of us are monsters. Playing Micro Machines single player can be a pretty miserable experience for sure.

[@OrinLinwe]

...According to wikipedia, t-shirt prints of Fido "became very popular in New York, and featured the character's official mantra: "Fido is for Fido. Fido is against no one. Fido is youth. Fido has no age. Fido sees everything. Fido judges nothing. Fido is innocent. Fido is powerful. Fido comes from the past. Fido is the future." I'm not saying the advertisement-departments in NY was run entirely by cocaine at the time, but I think it's prudent to say that it was at least a factor. I don't think a sugar-water cartoon necessarily needs a manifesto, but what do I know. I wasn't there.

[@Polyh3dron]

Would love to get your take on the fan-translated Lagrange Point, if you're doing import games at all.

[@Kingwilmetalhead]

Jeff: (Whilst having a miserable time with Micro Machines) "Circuit Breakers for the PlayStation 1" Me: "I love Circuit Breakers Jeff: "Only true monsters would like a game like that" I guess I am a monster. In my defense, I'm English. I also like Spectrum games with a certain egg in them and isometric puzzle exploration games such as Head Over Heels or that Batman game. Every time Jeff hates on them and talks about Brits being weirdly obsessed with them he's not wrong! 😂

[@chappymcchapster6130]

In the year 2150, when Mr Gerstmann is comparing the totality of human existence. The goal posts will still be Low G Man: The Low Gravity Man and Dinowarz: Destruction of Spondlyus

[@johnnada6855]

JEFF, never forget to say "And also videogames ?"

[@weirdsoupcartoonsyeah]

wow, this is the best game since tetris!

[@DenkyManner]

without checking the credits, I think it's obvious Roller Games had the same composer(s) as Castlevania 3 and the tmnt games

[@dyscostic]

dynowars spondylus is the fun/mediocre boundary. battletoads is the soft bad threshold. robocop is the hard bad bad threshold.

[@vincentlee8787]

What games are the soft good threshold and the good good threshold?

[@furrymessiah]

SPONDEELOOS

[@curleypewbs6809]

Rollergames feels like a game that was developed without a theme. If the TV show was on the outs, Konami could have gotten the license for cheap and then slapped it on the game?

[@bigdavet99]

The thing I find frustrating about Roller Games is that it seems like it has the bones of a good game. It could be remade into a fun unique beat em up.

[@Achoohorsey]

Rollergames sounds like a promotion that has Vince McMahon's carny vibes a la the WBF

[@airbagged_]

The Seanbaby reference.... now when will you be on 1-900-HOTDOG

[@Retro64_]

I like Micro Machines and Circuit Breakers, I'm a bad person :( That said no so much the NES version, the 16 bit versions and V3 on PS1 is where it's at.

[@Spirit0f]

I have a nagging feeling that I'm going to pay $20 to suggest 'Conquest of the Crystal Palace', 'Nightshade' and 'Krazy Kreatures' for the show.... EDIT: My memory of Castlevania was that it was the first game I ever pulled an all-nighter to try and beat. I can remember my Dad sticking his head into my room the next morning, asking if I got up early just to play a video game, I was embarrassed by the truth and just told him, "Yup". I also totally thought 'Dragon Spirit' was 'DragonStrike' going in and was pleasantly surprised by Spirit. Better than Dynowarz: Destruction of Spondylus.

[@kevinkuenn5733]

I owned Spot: The Video Game. I was never able to successfully spot the video game.

[@digitaldemigod]

I loved Castlevania as a kid but boy did I suck at it. I could usually beat the mummies. Never made it to Mr Dracula at the end. Those fucking hunchbacks had me inventing all kinds of new curse words. At least they were good for that.

[@esmerylan]

Never got far enough into Dragon Spirit to fight that plant boss with no sound effects, weird to see an officially licensed Namco game give off such strong unlicensed game vibes.

[@bluechew69]

The first question Jeff should ask after playing each game is "It it better or worse than Master Blu and the Drunkard Chu?".

[@jonathogm]

That and Dynowarz: Destruction of Spondulus

[@bobjames1933]

can You please rank skate or die 2, and ski or die?

[@rygar8bit2]

I like that the leader of one of the heel teams in Roller games is just an old lady, and you get to beat the shit out of her in this game.

[@Jaspertine]

1:09:00 Sounds like someone deasn't want to go to Barkerville.

[@nelson-haha89]

Pour one out for slamball

[@Ewzzy]

spot is red

[@jjjpppmmm111]

Let's go

[@TreesPlease42]

1:26:12 MONSTERS OF DARKNESS

[@vizionblind]

What is he playing with that he gets achievements in these games?

[@Leinad44]

...I kinda like Castlevania 64

[@StanleyFlinn]

Do you think it's more experientially disorienting to be transformed by a magical sword from a human into a blue dragon or to be transformed from a one headed dragon into a two headed dragon?

[@steve43ful]

Get Ranked! ™️

[@xtlm]

I read Rollergames was not canceled. Instead, the company making the show went bankrupt.

[@bertplus]

Eighth or ninth!

[@RetroDrew]

I'm afraid you can't fight the amen break. The snare is too powerful! It's no use

[@ToTheNines87368]

You can say what you want about Rollergames, but I feel like the developers had fun making that thing. It’s so dumb.

[@blandmanager]

Hi!

[@Goblin_Hunter87]

Where’s Rad Racer? 😢

[@davey.craney]

Burst!

[@MissAshley42]

I like Snow Bros. more than Bubble Bobble, too. I really wish the base speed, jump animation, and jump inertia were better, though. (Also, it's a dang shame the Snow Bros. remake looks so ugly.)

[@Behardy24]

Shirt!

[@neauxway]

In the market for Joel's iconic YUCK! shirt hmu

[@tempatempo3805]

Rygar is better than Castlevania?! Preposterous ! Seriously, am i missing something about the appeal of Rygar?

[@escapee909909]

Rygar really nailed a lot about action-adv rpg and was played slightly sooner than Zelda2 or Simon's Quest by most of my demographic back then, I suspect (I was 11 in 1987, NA.) Very do-able game for a kid too, grinding wasn't a term yet and you felt like you got one over on the game when you stumbled into it (knowing you could finish a game was a huge deal.) It also had stuff to think about, take notes on, crude maps to scribble etc. Just really sticks out, and damn if it doesn't deserve its spot.

[@FalcotheLegend]

Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon really captures "how you THINK Castlevania was" while making some gameplay tweaks to make things a little more manageable.

[@furrymessiah]

SPONDEELOOS

[@luminish8845]

putting kickle cubicle above kung fu episode was a mistake that's just grown more and more rediculous as the list expanded. Like the initial suprise of how modern it feels does give the appearence of a great game but as that suprise fades all thats left is a kinda slow, shallow, and annoying action puzzler. Its the one game im sure if jeff had more time with, it'd change it'd move at least a dozen spots on the list. I wonder if anything will ever be considered "better than kung fu but worse than kickle cubicle".

[@EmptyTelevision]

Durst!

[@doccatface6868]

Looking forward to "Audits", where the panel votes to challenge placements of games. Cobra Triangle has had it too good for too damn long.

[@Livingeidolon]

I keep trying to put an H in your name.

[@KeiMel6]

I’ve never seen a guy who has spent his life playing video games suck at video games more than you.

[@JazGalaxy]

I get so annoyed by the phrase “aged poorly”. There is no such thing. Games don’t change, people do. And every game has a fan base the goes from “liked it” to “loved every second of it”. As people and styles change, the “liked it” people may find other things that they like more, and that retroactively influence their opinion on the game. But the “loved every second of it” people are going to feel that way forever.

[@bobbarker1984]

Would you prefer the term “doesn’t hold up”?

[@Renoistic]

Tetris has aged well because it's a well designed game that still feels playable even when compared to modern iterations. Battletoads is basically an unplayable mess compared to modern action platformers, and I say that as someone who was obsessed with it as a kid. Castlevania fares a lot better.

[@JazGalaxy]

@@vizuzyou’re suggesting “of course people understand”, I do not feel that they do at all. When people make blanket statements about the idea that a game “does or doesn’t hold up”, they are putting the point of action on the GAME. They do NOT say, “I have a job now and I don’t have time for x” or “I’ve grown lazy and don’t like to think/ read anymore”, they say the GAME doesn’t “hold up” which is pure bullshit. Games don’t change. If a game was ever good, it’s still good. YOU may not like it anymore, in which case the phrase would be “I don’t like this anymore”. NOT “the game doesn’t hold up”.

[@JazGalaxy]

@@RenoisticI challenge your premise. Battletoads is still the same game it always was. It was extremely controversial when it was brand new. A lot of people hated it. It has NOTHING to do with “modern platformers”.

[@Rocketmanrun]

First!

[@mattyomi1549]

cool

[@beatchef]

I've always wondered why the first Castlevania has some of the exact same sound effects as Zelda 2, including the "uhhn" when you get hit, and the destroying objects noise

[@beatchef]

When I was a kid I got Probotector 2 (Super C?) for the cool robots on the cover, and then hated the game so much I returned it... for Rollergames. I was disappointed in that also but you couldn't exchange a second time. Now Probo 2 is worth a whole ton more than Rollergames too

[@beatchef]

Gremlins 2 is a decent game, you just need to spend a bit of time to get used to its weird pace. It's actual problem at the time was that it's not that hard and you could finish it quickly and it was very expensive. So the "Strider problem".

[@beatchef]

Nobody likes Micro Machines playing it single player though, they love the multiplayer. Especially the genesis version and with the controller ports in the csrtridge