Google Levels

Google Levels
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/ jeffhsipe
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0:00 - Intro
0:28 - What are Levels
1:06 - Years of Experience
3:40 - Recruiter Conversation
5:58 - Level Assessment
8:27 - Down-Leveling vs. Up-Leveling
10:37 - Internal Items
12:21 - Ego
Additional Videos that might help:
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Google Sample GCA Question - • Google GCA Question an...
Google's Random GCA Questions - • Google GCA Interview -...
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Google's GCP Interview - • Google Cloud Interview
Google Leadership Interview - • Google's Leadership In...
Google Googleyness Interview - • Interviewing for Googl...
Google RRK Interview - • Google's RRK Interview...
Why Google - • Why Google
Team Match - • Google Team Match
Hiring Committee - • Google's Hiring Committee
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THANK YOU!

[@jeffhsipepi]

Hi everyone! I think this is the most comprehensive information you can find about leveling at Google online. I hope it helps!

[@fleur257]

Jeff - What about non technical positions like Business Development leads, Corporate Development, Strategy & Operations leads. Where do they fall and what can we compare their compensation levels to ?

[@amylovescoffee4759]

Another awesome video. Thank you for sharing.

[@jeffhsipepi]

@@amylovescoffee4759, thank you so much!

[@jeffhsipepi]

@@fleur257, Lead roles typically start externally at the L5 level and go up from there, the roles you mention are likely L5 or L6 roles. These are non-tech roles, so the compensation is still strong, but will not pay as high as technical roles.

[@fleur257]

@@jeffhsipepi Thanks for taking the time to reply. Really helps !

[@beatalert123]

This content was very helpful Jeff. Thank you for summerizing this well..!!

[@jeffhsipepi]

@beatalert123, thank you for watching, I know this subject area can be really confusing!

[@jocalvo]

The years of experience was key for me to understand! Thanks heaps Jeff!

[@jeffhsipepi]

John, thanks! Glad this provided a little clarity 😬

[@cinedanmatrix]

Hey jeff! I just want to say that I really appreciate your content and I found it super helpful while I was interviewing for Google last year, and I am still finding your content helpful even after joining Google! Thank you!

[@jeffhsipepi]

Danny, thank you so much for the positive feedback, I hope things are going well at Google!

[@CharisCh]

Your content is so helpful! Thanks Jeff!!

[@jeffhsipepi]

Charis, happy to help!

[@sumzero5857]

Thank you, super helpful!

[@jeffhsipepi]

SS777, thanks for watching!

[@jocalvo]

I can't believe what you said at the end! I am a NLP Engineer myself and I would have chosen Google over FB 100 times in that scenario!

[@jeffhsipepi]

John, I was surprised too!

[@agmos01]

I asked my recruiter and she said she had no clue. She said level depends upon my performance on the interviews, etc. I definitely see your point in regards to panelists though. It makes absolute sense.

[@jeffhsipepi]

Alex, if your Recruiter used this specific terminology, I just have no words, this is just awful. They know, and if they don't they shouldn't have their job. Ugh, keep us posted!!

[@jonzyzsquad]

Awesome video thank you so much I am in the offer stage right now with Google I have my interview with the hiring manager tomorrow fingers crossed!!!

[@jeffhsipepi]

JonzyzSquad, awesome, good luck!!!

[@ishaanagrawal2763]

Hey Jeff, This was super helpful. My interview process took over 4 months (Jun-Oct). And finally last Monday I got approved. I interviewed for the position of Technical Writer, GCP (India) and carry over 6 years of experience with Tier1 companies. I was offered a pay package that seemed pretty entry level. It was L3. I inquired about this with my recruiter and was told this is the level we're hiring experienced technical writers at. Looks like I was down-leveled and thus offered a relative salary that's lower than what I'm making now. Never imagined Google could be such a difficult decision.

[@jeffhsipepi]

Ishaan, I really hope you had the opportunity to negotiate!! Long term it will be a great decision financially, good luck!

[@ishaanagrawal2763]

@@jeffhsipepi Hey Jeff. Thank you for responding. As it seems, I'll be taking a 25% hit on my paycheck if I accept Google's offer. As much as it hurts me, I think I'll have to pass on it. I expected Google to at least match my current salary but they couldn't. Unfortunately, maybe this isn't my time for Google. Sigh!

[@jeffhsipepi]

@@ishaanagrawal2763 you will definitely have another opportunity in the near future!

[@CSneedInc]

Hey Jeff, I had my recruiter interview today. She shared all the pertinent info like levels, interview process, rounds, expectations, etc. The role that I applied for is a Level 4 seeking 5 years experience. After an overview of my resume, the recruiter mentioned that I can use my WB studio ecommerce operations background as experience. This was great news because it allows for me to get closer to those 5 years. So, I will have to remember to bring that up with the HM. Even though they are looking for Level 4, we can actually decrease a level or increase a level. This was also mentioned in the TVC chat. This all depends on our interview performance, knowledge, and communication. What else does it depend on? What separates an L3, L4, L5 from each other than years of experience? What are some other factors? How can I demonstrate that I am qualified to be an L4? I definitely do not want to decrease to an L3. I applied for the Product Operations Manager, Google Play Apps role. I am a TVC on the GTV (Google TV) team and we work in partnership with the Play Store to display their apps on the GTV Chromecast device or Android TV devices like the Nvidia Shield. So, I am familiar with their processes, some of their team members, and goals. Thanks for your assistance and response.

[@jeffhsipepi]

CSneedInc - addressing all the items, you do not need to bring up YOE with the HM or validate why you are in that interview, interviews can increase or decrease level, it depends on overall performance, your level is determined by performance, the best way to show you are an L4 is prep and practice, good luck!

[@CSneedInc]

Thanks Jeff. I appreciate the prompt responses.

[@davidkatusa3577]

Hi Jeff, this video definitely helped me understand the different pay levels at google, thanks! One question regarding interview process. Ive completed my virtual on site day and was put on a ~6 month cool off period, with 6 months already upcoming in November. I was told by the HR recruiter that she was not able to give very specific advice at that time, but she did tell me that I was "great on navigating ambiguity, strong on GCA, and had no big negatives, but they wanted to see a better articulation my my PM fundamentals in how I identify a problem and progress towards a solution." This sounds like its part of the RRK interview (which was my 4th of that day), but I wanted to see if you agreed that this was most likely the RRK portion, rather than makes assumptions and be wrong. I was told that I will get more specific feedback at some point, which I may book an appt for some time with you after that since I will have a more specific idea of what to cover. thanks!

[@jeffhsipepi]

David, it sounds that way, but I would be guessing. I would not expect more specific feedback in the future, but I would expect that you get any chance. Good luck!

[@ml-techn]

Hi Jeff, thanks for all the content you are putting to help us. I would like to have your opinion for my situation. I am working in big company (not tech but aerospace). I had did my ML PhD and then joined the company just after finishing my PhD. I was hired as MLE but ending working as mix of TPM-MLE as we subcontract a lot and also after one year I was charged to build a roadmap and setup a vision for ML for the company. I would say that I work as cross functions and organisations to launch and build the right projects (3$ Million projects). So, for the past 4 years, I work with people from different organisation and with junior and senior MLE but my role was to be sure that everything is good and follow my roadmap. So, I only coded for the first year then transition to more managing and leading the projects. Now, recruiter are approaching me and offering to interview for L5 or L6 (Google, Meta and Amazon) when I describe my experience. But, actually, I am scared as the rounds included system designs but actually my work and projects did involved any build high scalable systems or in production (I am working at airbus), it is a not a tech company. So, I don't know how to explain that to the recruiter. and also I am scared as I have never worked in big tech so I don't have any idea if my skills are good enough. I would be happy even if I get L4 and I am sure I can ram-up quickly. What are your thoughts and how I can explain that to the recruiter. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[@jeffhsipepi]

NOA, I think your experience sounds great, system design can be learned, as long as you have a technical background!

[@ganzee6928]

Great depth, Jeff - at a L7 for KZbin content! ;) One comment on levels being about egos - don't levels largely determine the scope of the work and the org size (for EMs)? Seem pretty important from that perspective.

[@jeffhsipepi]

Ganzee, thank you so much for this perspective! Yes, level could technically determine scope, so it is a very valid point. Would an L6 vs L7 EM have a different scope, probably not, but thank you for this comment!

[@dapyx256]

Hi Jeff - first of all thank you for all your efforts of creating and sharing these very educative videos for consumption - you are one of a kind. I want to ask a few questions about levels and job expectations. Are Program Managers considered higher or lower on the totem pole than TPMs? Is a Program Manager Level 6 same as a TPM Level 6? Is it harder to get Program Manager Level 6 or TPM Level 6? What about differences when it comes to compensation? Lastly - there is no video about the growing demand in roles at satellite locations like Seattle and New York - could you give an idea on salary negotiations/expectations for these locations vs Silicon Valley? Thank you

[@jeffhsipepi]

dapyx256, TPM roles are harder to land and pay about 10% per level than Program Managers. NYC and the Bay Area pay the same. Seattle pays about 10% less.

[@maquiloman]

@@jeffhsipepi Hi Jeff, what about the level? Is a TPM more typically a level 6 compared tp PM?

[@smonkl]

Hello, and thank you! Why is compensation weights more then level, in your opinion? Higher level means more space for own decisions, more meaning tasks, more opportunities, more value. Not an ego, but impact possibility, as for me

[@jeffhsipepi]

Vehsamrak, especially at Google, you will be given what you can handle, so you can have a lot of responsibilities at the lower levels. And, I would rather be an L3 at Google than a VP at another company if it paid more, as long as the work was interesting and exciting to me.

[@lilysCH12]

Hi Jeff, thank you very much for those amazing videos. The tips you give are very insightful and helpful. I am at offer stage, and i was curious to know more about 1) whether disclosing expected compensation from my end is a must and 2) with a lack of data points for Google's pay ranges in the middle east (GCC in particular), what should I be referencing as my comparable region for an L6 position?

[@jeffhsipepi]

@lilysCH12, not always a must, if you simply don't provide any expectations they will need to present the first offer. And to figure out an appropriate pay range, use the system I created in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ2tdISoerRggLs, good luck!!

[@bigbigdog]

I don't know, I think Google vs FB is a tough choice. I don't think you can go wrong either way. IMHO.

[@jeffhsipepi]

@bigbigdog, both are good companies, the brand will do wonders for your career and you will make good money. I recommend both companies!

[@simone-uc5so]

It's comprehensive and aligns with my experience, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because I've seen a similar arrogant demeanor in 4 or 5 recruiters I've spoken with. They will look at your years of experience and apply a one-size-fits-all judgement on you, even if you've held very senior roles in other large companies. I mean this comment says it all: 33% chance you get down-leveled, but 1% chance to be up-leveled? Is that joke? I don't regret turning down their lowball offer down a couple of years ago. It is unreasonable to expect everyone should bow down and accept lowballing disguised as "setting up for success" just because their name is Google. If I was a hiring exec there I'd change my outlook if I wanted to keep up with the industry. With the job market the way it is, people are starting to realize what they're worth.

[@jeffhsipepi]

sim one, thank you for this comment. I obviously can't speak to the demeanor of your Recruiters, but they are really just following the overall messaging given how Google works. Your level is determined by your years of experience, but the interviews play a large factor in where you end up. And lastly, if you ever decide to go back and interview with any of the big tech firms, the first offer usually is low, but most offers at the L5+ level can be negotiated up by 50K or more per year. I hope this data helps.

[@luisssssfrl]

Hi Jeff, thanks for your videos. One quick question, how do the internal references work? I'm thinking I have a couple of person that could give me one.

[@jeffhsipepi]

Luiss, internal references can help a little bit, but they can also hurt you, so make sure that the people providing a reference know you well and will say positive things about you.

[@ivy3420]

hi, thanks for the information. I am mostly interviewing for L3 swe, with < 1 yeo, and with positive onsite feedback. Say if I pass HC, could I wait for several months then reconnect with the recruiter for some extra interviews to get L4 position? would it be too late to bring up the targeting-level conversation with the recruiter? what would be the best and worst outcomes? also -- if I quit a full time job at a faang for 3 months, should I add this to my resume? I did have experience with owning a product and leading product development and talked about it in my behavioral interview tho. I want larger scope and career growth. thxxx

[@jeffhsipepi]

Erin, 1 YOE without a PhD sounds like an L3 SWE. If you pass HC as an L3, I would recommend taking the job, passing HC and asking to interview as an L4 months down the road is not a strategy I would recommend. I always add jobs to my resume that add value, if you took this path and you felt it did not add value, I would not add it. I hope this helps!

[@CSneedInc]

Thanks Jeff for this video. How do promotions work exactly? I know you stated the following: 1) contact our lead, 2) have great performance for 2 consecutive quarters, 3) go before a hiring committee Does this mean I literally have to tell my lead I am interested in a promotion at year two? Are they not evaluating me and my performance over a course of time? Do I bring this up during the evaluation process explaining how I met goals, exceeded benchmarks, etc? Does this mean there is another interview process with my lead and the hiring committee? I am curious. Thanks in advance.

[@jeffhsipepi]

CSneedInc, career progression and promotion conversations are common, but I want you to take ownership of the process. Ultimately, a promotion committee will determine whether or not you get promoted, but you do not need to re-interview.

[@CSneedInc]

@@jeffhsipepi ​ Hey Jeff, Thanks the clarity. Also, thanks for the prompt responses on all of my questions. I definitely appreciate it.

[@amylovescoffee4759]

Hi Jeff. Thank you for this awesome video. One question, would Google consider YOE oversea same as in the US?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Amy, in my opinion years of experience are years of experience no matter where the work was done!

[@amylovescoffee4759]

@@jeffhsipepi wonderful. Thank you Jeff ☺️

[@CannonballCircuit]

Jeff, thanks so much for your videos. I'm curious to get your thoughts on this--if I already had my onsite and am about to have my packet submitted for HC, should I ask my recruiter to emphasize L5 instead of L4? He told me the job is looking for L4/L5 If i had to guess, based on recruiter, i had possibly 2 SH and 2 H, but he didnt mention ar what level Btw, my interviewers were all L6 & L7

[@jeffhsipepi]

@CannonballCircuit, ultimately it is up to the Recruiter/Hiring Manager/Interviewers to determine level, but you can always send a very gracious and kind email to the Recruiter saying, I am excited for my HC results, can you please let me know what level we are targeting, I am aiming for an L5! At this point your Recruiter will know the level they are targeting even though it is ultimately up to HC. Good luck!!

[@fabianocampos5838]

Hey Jeff, how about sales position? I have about 14 years of experience in several companies, but how can they “measure” the relevance of my past experience to determine what level I will fit in?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Fabiano, the measurements are really tough and that is why the year range is so big per level, the only thing you can control is crushing your interviews!

[@brianjuhyuklee]

Hi Jeff, thank you for your videos, they've been super helpful! I had a quick question: I'm currently in the offer stage with Google. When I applied, the job description was Program Manager. But when they sent me the offer, it reads Program Associate. The job description called for 4 years of experience, and I currently have a little over 3 years. How can I negotiate for the previous title of Program Manager? My current role right now is also Program Manager at a different company. I think they lowered the compensation because of this, but I'm already negotiating on that part. Thank you!!!

[@jeffhsipepi]

Brian, it is really important to confirm the job title and make sure you are anchoring high when negotiating. Check out our videos on negotiation. Good luck!

[@brianjuhyuklee]

@@jeffhsipepi Thank you Jeff! Hope you had a great Thanksgiving holiday! They have indeed changed the title from Program Manager to Program Associate and the level from L4 to L3. As a result, this has changed the compensation significantly from what they initially offered by ~30K. I've tried to negotiate on comp, but have only succeeded in going up by ~5K. I know you say to negotiate on comp not level, but how can I increase the comp without negotiating the level? The down-leveling has significantly decreased the comp, and the only way I see to significantly increase it is by asking for a higher level, which will change the title and pay bands. Thank you so much!

[@suyashjain07]

Hi Jeff, Does interview performance(extremely good vs average) matters during compensation decision?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Suyash, nope! Comp does not see this info, they are focused on level, role, and location.

[@akalrove4834]

So having too many years of experience relative to the job requirement can also hurt your chances if you aren’t able to demonstrate L5/L6 level of performance in interviews.

[@jeffhsipepi]

Akal Rove, yes, this does not happen that often, but I saw it happen in some of the HC's that I was in.

[@saitejap6116]

Hi Jeff, I recently went through the onsite for a PgM (L3/L4) and recruiter told that the overall feedback is good but there is a confusion on the level fitment. What does it mean?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Sai, it is likely that some interviewers saw you as a 3 and others saw you as a 4, but I am guessing, I would asking this specific question to your Recruiter, good luck!!

[@oykuso.6466]

Hi Jeff, how is applying to two positions at the same time interpreted from the recruiter perspective?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Öykü Sorgun, this is totally fine! Oftentimes at a big company there are multiple roles that match our background, good luck!

[@oykuso.6466]

@@jeffhsipepi Thank you :) Love your content

[@-mle566]

Surprised to see that the compensation of Google L5 can even compete Meta L6🤣

[@jeffhsipepi]

@-mle566, it is important to remember that an L5 at Google = an L6 at Meta, same with Amazon, Google is going to be one level below for the same amount of experience. And typically, at one level lower, Google will pay more!

[@wrem0510]

Hi! Where can we find your weekly Lives that you mentioned?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Will, all past live sessions can be found on our YT page, thanks!

[@venumaj112]

you mentioned while interviewing google you dont even what leveling you are interviewing for. But during system design interviews, I was told my interviewer that I was interviewing for l7 level.....

[@jeffhsipepi]

@venumaj112, you are 100% correct! Some candidates definitely know their target level before and during the interviews. Oftentimes Recruiters do not want to commit to providing candidates with their target level because ultimately the interviewers and finally HC will be the ultimate decision makers. They do this to not disappoint candidates who get down-leveled at the end of the interview process, but still make it to the offer stage. I hope this provides a little clarity.

[@venumaj112]

Thanks for the clarity

[@Adam-iy2on]

Hi! Does having a MBA help you come in at a higher level?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Steven, I typically don't see an MBA adding to level.

[@slipperyeel9206]

At what point does experience vs ability measure pay level?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Slippery eel, it's a great question and in truth, there really is no magic formula, experience is important, but your ability to perform the job is more important. So, basically, I don't think I can give you a good answer, all I can say is, always try to level up and have a strong negotiation plan!

[@iamnuts20]

What level does Program Manager at Google fall under, I am interviewing for it with 18 years of experience.

[@jeffhsipepi]

Vara, Google hires Program Managers from L3 to L7. Your level will be reflected by years of experience in a like or similar role.

[@vinays2496]

Why would it motivate google to proactively up level a candidate even if there are eligible.. i mean from the finance part of it , they can just give them lower level(not up level i mean) and get the same work done as if they were higher level and later promote them if needed..

[@jeffhsipepi]

@vinays2496, I think the misconception is that Google wants the level to be appropriate from the beginning. I 100% understand your logic and up levels are pretty uncommon, but they definitely happen!

[@binterizvi1094]

Hi Jeff, would you know the pay range of L5 Regional Team Manager role in Singapore? (Managing a team of bd/ac mgrs in 2 countries

[@jeffhsipepi]

Binte, watch this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ2tdISoerRggLs

[@binterizvi1094]

I already watched this. So the same ranges are applicable worldwide? It won't be less in Singapore?

[@jeffhsipepi]

@@binterizvi1094 The ranges you see in Singapore are the only ones that are applicable. Singapore is one of the better paying markets in the world.

[@binterizvi1094]

Thank you so much!

[@jayparikh6525]

Hi Jeff, I have just given all the rounds but neither recruiter told me nor have i asked for the level. I have 10 years of experience. Recruiter said she is sending my file to HC. I am not sure for which level i am being hired. Can we negotiate on level after Yes from HC ?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Jay, yah, at this point you will find out level soon enough, but you cannot negotiate level.

[@jeffhsipepi]

And good luck!!

[@jayparikh6525]

@@jeffhsipepi Thanks !

[@deborshikashyap6745]

What's level for one who has no experience

[@jeffhsipepi]

@deborshikashyap6745, L3 for external hires coming into entry level roles.

[@aadityaoza]

Will a person with say 15 YOE not be considered for an L4 position bcoz they are perceived as being too old for the same?

[@jeffhsipepi]

@aadityaoza, great question and it depends! So let's say you are going after a Product Manager role and you have 15 years of experience in product management, then yes, 15 YOE would simply be too much experience to go after an L4 role. But if you have 15 YOE, but only 5 in a Product Management role, then an L4 would be appropriate. I hope this helps!

[@aadityaoza]

@@jeffhsipepi thank you. How about SWE roles? If it’s true that L4 is a terminal level for SWE, why would they consider 15 years as SWE too much? Is this something to do with ageism in tech?

[@jeffhsipepi]

@@aadityaoza I do not see L4 as a terminal level, but with 15 YOE I would think you would be at least an L5, maybe an L6. Please let me know if this answers your question!

[@mohamedrasvi9341]

Hi Jeff how hard is to get hired L7 as a staff software engineer at Google ?

[@jeffhsipepi]

Mohamed, at each level it gets tougher! Google does not hire a lot of L7 SWEs, but they do hire them. All I can recommend is prepare and practice as much as you can!

[@mohamedrasvi9341]

@@jeffhsipepi so example if they hire someone at level 5 can be promoted to L6 quickly if he/she performs L6 level ?

[@jeffhsipepi]

@@mohamedrasvi9341 Yes, you will hear many comments that say it is hard to get promoted, but in order to get promoted you simply need to perform at the level above you for 6 months.

[@pranithb5047]

FROM L2 TO L7 you are working in L4 with external experience. Can your level increase to L6 for working some more years in google.! Or is L4 your permanent job with no promotion and same salary?

[@pranithb5047]

I mean to say if I join as L2 in Google will I be promoted to L6 showing experience in google itself . Or I will be at L2 forever ??????

[@jeffhsipepi]

Pranith, yes, you can increase your level over time with strong performance. Google looks for you to be performing at the next level for two quarters before promoting you. Your promotion will be evaluated and confirmed by a promotion committee.

[@jeffhsipepi]

Pranith, yes, you can move up levels with strong performance 😬

[@pranithb5047]

@@jeffhsipepi okay I understood. Its all about how will we work on a project being in team and bringing new innovations and ideas to the company

[@jeffhsipepi]

@@pranithb5047 It's all about working hard and smart, do both and you will do great!

[@pinyichang4680]

ＨＩ

[@jeffhsipepi]

Pinyi, HI, hope you are enjoying the channel!