Post-Mortem 4: Darth Thanaton

[@austinkersey2445]

I'd say that his lack of ingenuity in his elder years were both due to a lack of opponents able to overpower him through martial might, and because of the fact that he most likely suffered the folly of many Sith in his era. Hubris. He got so arrogant that he felt he no longer needed the skills he acquired in his youth, and in his haste to forget his past and bury it, he made himself vulnerable to the very techniques, ingenuity, and tactical prowess he once employed. Can anyone say irony?

[@SoftisNelaris]

Part of it might also just be a plain focus on academics, indicated by his shift in specialization from Sith operative/assassin to Sith sorcerer. In his youth he was an inexperienced, under-trained apprentice thrown into combat situations above his level and forced to dig deep and pull out unexpected victories. Afterwards though, he clearly spent decades honing his force abilities and expanding the breadth off his knowledge. I would chalk up his ultimate defeat being due to the plethora of powerful Sith spirits wielded by the Inquisitor, who was still constantly developing his own force abilities on top of the immense power afforded by the aforementioned spirits. I wouldn't really fault anyone for failing under those circumstances; Thanaton was probably one of the top force wielders of the era, at a comfortable top of the food chain and the number of force users who could have defeated him in a pure force confrontation could be counted on one hand. He just got himself in over his head and only realized it too late.

[@austinkersey2445]

@@SoftisNelaris This is true. I am merely saying that his arrogance is what spared Lord Kallig, when he could have killed him. This hubris led to Kallig systematically destroying his power base that he built up for decades. Though, I don't disrespect him at all. As a Dark Council Member he rightfully earned his spot through subterfuge and manipulation. And the fact that he had unquestionable power in the Force. It's just I feel like he could have easily been a Tier 1 if he decided to also invest some skill in the One-Handed or Two-Handed Tree instead of just Destruction and Alteration. I also would have preferred he not have been a relatively easy boss fight. But you can't deny he suffered the same fate that many Sith and villains suffer. Monologueing and not killing your potential rivals when theu are weak and right in front of you.

[@austinkersey2445]

@Emperor Vowrawn True, Kallig is ridiculously strong and is easily a Tier 2 Force User naturally and a Tier 1 with all of his Sith ghosts. So Thanaton's loss isn't really that terrible. I feel he would have been much better served as a Rule of Two Sith, as his natural academic acuity and inquisitive nature would serve him well. He would also have to master the blade out of necessity which would improve his skill and technique great (I think Niman would still be his bread and butter, but taken to an Exar Kun level of lethality and sophistication). If this were the case, his Force abilities would likely be even more potent and he would go down as one of the stronger Sith in history. Not top tier, but in the running for top 50. Not to mention his penchant for manipulation on a grand scale and politically-minded nature. But, as is he's definitely strong but nothing totally ludicrous for a Dark Council Master. That said, of the Dark Council members at the time I think he and Marr were of the upper tier at the time, and while I can't confirm this, I think he could take most of the other members with a comfortable edge. Especially Ravage, as those who bark the loudest are often the weakest.

[@zacharycrater2588]

Currently Conor McGregor has also fallen for this. Although not because of arrogance entirely.

[@iceomistar4302]

Id say this is crutch most Jedi Consulars and Sith sorcerers fell on, they funneled all their power into the force rather than keep their options open with lightsaber training and tactical awareness.

[@blackmarketgamingTheLukaski]

Darth Thanaton skills was so powerful that the veteran Dark Council member, Darth Marr (The Dark Council member in accolades wise to have defeated armies of Republic Troopers and Jedi, and the Dark Council member that the Emperor deemed as a threat to his throne) mentioned to Darth Nox/Occlus/Imperius (The 3 titles that Lord Kallig can possibility get upon finishing the SI storyline) on Makeb that he never expected to see Darth Thanaton die in his lifetime. Meaning he must be one of the upper tiers members of the Dark Council as well.

[@FrostByte_06]

Fr hes strongee than Palpatine

[@shifterverse]

One thing you can always say about Jen, he really does do his homework and turns over every stone. Very good analysis :)

[@iceomistar4302]

I use his analysis style write my assignments, high grades every time, he doesn't leave any stone unturned

[@theshadowman0174]

You can tell that he genuinely cares about his craft. He definitely prioritizes quality over quantity, which is a rarity, especially nowadays.

[@canderousordo8271]

While the game SWTOR isn't all that appealing to me, it created a very interesting world and ideas for the force and characters.

[@DarthWill3]

Well, Thanaton was put on the Dark Council for a _reason._ Like Darth Marr said, he was a "better Sith than [Ravage] gives him for." Nice job.

[@TrajGreekFire]

I love Marr

[@blackmarketgamingTheLukaski]

Marr was surprised when Thanaton got Noxed by Darth Nox. He stated to Nox that he didn't expect for him to live to see Thanaton die. A powerful accolodate given the Emperor viewed him as one of the Dark Council members (the other being Mortis) being a threat to his throne. And the fact that he was not only the oldest Dark Council member, but the De-facto leader of the Council.

[@james739123]

@@blackmarketgamingTheLukaski Vowrawn was older then Marr

[@GenshinLover283]

I think Ravage just looks down on any sith that ISN'T him

[@sorrowdusk5068]

@@GenshinLover283 Him or Baras

[@zackthezabarak739]

Game of thrones rankings: Tier 1: Arthur Dayne, Barristen Selmy, Jaime Lannister( both hands), and Oberyn Martell. Tier 2: Eddard Stark, Sandor Clegane, Brienne Of Tarth, Syrrio Ferrel. Tier 3: Jon Snow, Asher Forrester, Loras Tyrell, Darrio Nahris. Tier 4: Jorah Mormont, Bronn, Mandon Moore, Yara Greyjoy. Tier 5: Jamie Lannister ( one hand) Theon Greyjoy, Gregor Clegane ( the mountain has above average skill with a swords, but all his victories come from his freak strength) Beric Dondorian. Tier 6: Ramsay Bolton, Tyrion Lannister, Samwell Tarly, Tier 7: Joffrey Baratheon, Cersei Lannister, Brann Stark, little finger.

[@geoffreyedgson7875]

Another fantastic video!!! Showing both Kel/Darth Thanaton at different points in their lives was truly amazing, showing how drastically characters can evolve over time rather than remaining stagnant throughout an entire series. Darth Bane and Obi-Wan Kenobi are two examples of characters whom heavily evolved in their different attributes and capabilities over the course of the character-lives; but looking at them a different stages is very rare, opposed to the heights of their power or as an accumulative whole. Even beyond that, showing Darth Thanaton was brilliant, not only placing his capabilities into perspective among others in the Star Wars franchise, but also featuring a character with a range of different tiers in his individual capacities; Tier 3, 5, and 1 in their respective order; with an accumulative compromise to reflect his overall standing. Much different from others like Kenobi or Darth Vader who have their individual capacities all within the same Tier-league. This was a fantastic video. And I am deeply eager for your collaboration with Evannova to feature Corran Horn against Darth Thanaton. Especially the influence of the Force on that kind of contest. Corran Horn himself is one of the most complex and paradoxical force-wielders in all of Star Wars, shaped by his shortcomings more than his talents. Trying to figure out what would happen between him and someone with Darth Thanaton's complex use of developed power is staggering....

[@dimond360_]

I’ll give you anything that Thanaton’s lightsaber in swtor is the same scavenged lightsaber that killed Exal Kresh because he was too lazy to make a new one

[@muhdaqeel7330]

That would make sense, except the design between the two lightsabers is different: in Blood of the Empire, the lightsaber had a V-shaped emitter guard while his SWTOR lightsaber had four fins surrounding the emitter.

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@muhdaqeel7330 he probably just went through numerous lightsabers through his years as a sith inquisitor, similar to how anakin and luke went through numerous sabers. You could just fix that inconsistency with that

[@muhdaqeel7330]

@@lapplandkun9273 Goog point.

[@darylsdesigns6679]

Thanaton vs Corran Horn? That’s an interesting matchup

[@canderousordo8271]

Corrans big weakness is his inability for telekinesis. I don't see him defeat Thanaton without it.

[@darylsdesigns6679]

Canderous Ordo true, but Horn has ways of compensating for this. He is known to use Tutaminis to absorb electricity, fire, heat and Force attacks and used the energy he gathered to temporarily bolster his telekinetic prowess, so Horn isn’t completely useless in this field. Also, Horn’s abilities with Battlemind and defend against mental intrusion means that he can protect himself against Thanaton’s sorcery for a time. And as martial artists, Horn obviously gets the edge

[@wristofkings]

I feel like Corran's got this one. Despite his weakness to TK, his mastery of Tutiminis to feed his power keeps him in the game against an Old Republic Sith who favors lightning as an offensive power. Moveover, Sith sorcery is unlikely to do much to him thanks to his own knowledge of similar powers along with Battle Mind. He's second tier as a swordsman in the NJO (after people like Luke, the Solo twins, Mara Jade etc) which is honestly a substantial accolade given how OP the NJO was, and he's easily physically and martially superior to Thanaton who's more of a sorcerer than anything else.

[@darylsdesigns6679]

wristofkings I agree

[@robgeorge4581]

@@wristofkings My thoughts are virtually the same. If Thanaton spamed the crap out tk, he curbstomps. Fortunately for Horn, Thanaton prefers lightning and sorcery which Horn is optimized to deal with. Throw in being a superior swordsman and physicality, and it appears Horn has all the tools he needs to win this.

[@josephrousell2818]

Revan, as broken down by @Jensaarai1 (how I imagine it): Physical Capabilities: Tier 2 Martial Arts/Lightsaber Combat: 2 Force Abilities: Tier 1 Overall Rating: Tier 1 (On the basis on his overall combative performance and his Force Abilities. Mid-tier of the god-tier. Higher than Thanaton, Vader and Malgus but lower than Yoda and Palpatine). My 2 cents. Thoughts?

[@iceomistar4302]

Sounds about right, Revan's power was greater than that of Nyriss who nearly killed both the Jedi Exile and Lord Scourge had Revan not employed Tutaminis and turned her lightning back at her they'd both be dead, I would rank the Jedi Exile as either lower tier 3 or upper 4, with Scourge maybe being Tier 4 during Revan, I think Nyriss is definitely upper tier 2.

[@zackthezabarak739]

Xanatos vs Mariss Brood. Two failed Jedi apprentices turned to the dark side and fought admirably against one of the best duelist of their generations ( gui-gin jinn and Galen Marek respectively)

[@wristofkings]

I'd wager Xanatos personally, mostly based on the limitations of Brood's weapons.

[@tiredjediknight3110]

Most likely Xanatos. Maris has her own advantages but her weapons are as much a hindrance to her as they are a benefit.

[@robgeorge4581]

Xanatos. Not only does Brood's weapons suck balls but Xanatos is extremely manipulative and intelligent. Throw in Brood's psyche and it seems Xanatos has the odds in his favor.

[@theshadowman0174]

@@robgeorge4581 It's not that she sucks, just her weapon choice sucks. If she wielded a standard lightsaber, she might be decent.

[@OfficialRaveBlitz]

God damn! This is why I LOVE LOVE LOVE the EU/Legends. So much amazing and awesome Lore that Disney's Canon NOWHERE comes close to having! Well done Jen', you've outdone yourself on this one! Darth Thanaton is definitely one character I'd love to read about.

[@tuckercoolman5390]

Glad to see some more SWTOR characters getting their due. Great work as always Connor.

[@DarkLOREDash]

Thanaton was a boss in his comic run. Hated how he was portrayed in SWTOR

[@gammamaster1894]

You know, I always kinda liked and agreed with Thanaton, didn’t really wanna kill him, but I had to. A bit like Darth Mortis I guess

[@zackthezabarak739]

You would probably disagree but I would say Kylo ren is a tier two physique ( one of few people to survive Chewbacca ‘s bowcaster, then engages in a duel with both Finn and Rey, dominating both for the majority of the fight) a tier 5 lightsaber duelist ( he’s a great fighter and killed more praetorian guards than Rey, displayed enough dexterity to use dual wielding against the guards in an imitation of jar’kai, easily over powered Finn and dominated Rey in their first fight until Rey started calling on the force. His greatest accolade is killing what apprentices wouldn’t join him after turning to the dark side. How ever he was easily inferior to Luke Skywalker, not even able to land a bit on luke’s Force projection until Luke let him. He also had difficulty against the praetorian guards, though they were trained to fight force users. He uses his natural talent to coast and unless facing highly trained opposition dominated in battle.) I place him as a tier four force weilder( he has enough raw power to bulldoze his way through Luke Skywalker and an untrained Rey, can stop blaster bolts mid air with ease, used the pain from his bowcaster bolt injury to feed his anger and sustain his power, could rip information from the minds of prisoners and most notably attracted the attention of snoke from a young age, who believed ren would one day be the equal of Vader. However his defenses were spotty, as Rey was able to read his mind while he read hers, he was easily overpowered by snoke and was stalemated by a barely trained Rey. His raw power is immense, but he’s just not reached his full potential) all in all I’d say he’s a tier 4.5 . He’s got more skill than a lot of tier fives, but most tier 4’s would cream him. Quinlan Vos and Rham Kota are definitely better , yet Kylo is still leaps ahead of Kanan Jarrus or Mariss Brood. His physicality is top notch, his force talents are prodigious and is competent with a lightsaber, but he’s no Vader. I’d say a characters of similar abilities are K’Kruhk ( clone wars era) Ayala secura, and Darth Wredd.

[@umor9014]

It is just that nobody cares about trash characters from the new movies lmao

[@TrajGreekFire]

@@umor9014 Because it's fun to make breakdowns.

[@zackthezabarak739]

🤩🤩🤩

[@robgeorge4581]

This is a great breakdown. But I only agree this applies to Ren when he is wearing a shirt. Shirtless Kylo Ren is tier Meme. The Swole easily grants Ben Swolo the power to face against Memetic Sidious!

[@papawedge7396]

I agree, that's a well made breakdown.

[@ariesstorm9577]

Darth Thanaton is a tier 3 Sith Loremaster ? How about pitting him against another well known Sith Loremaster like Darth Wyyrlok III?

[@cultofmalgus1310]

will you ever do a Darth Thanaton vs Darth Baras?

[@cultofmalgus1310]

@@blacksun6245 I've been asking him to do it for 3 years now. >.>

[@unbelievablytrash9458]

I think that might be a bit of a mismatch on the back of Baras being so ridiculously overpowered, and among that power, we don't know what comes from his external sources like the Dark Spirit. We only see him without the power of the Dark Spirit in one duel, and if the Dark Spirit is included, then Thanaton simply can't win.

[@dimond360_]

I really want to see Darth Baras in this series though I had the idea of Darth Baras Vs Darth Wyyorlok

[@dimond360_]

Darth wyyrlock ||| to be clear

[@dimond360_]

Baras simply controlled the spirit and stole her visions

[@tylerwood7639]

Just a huge fan saying im glad to hear and see ur videos again man!

[@tonywright9906]

Jen,long time no hear ?! This channel have been missing true research and study. Miss your videos we have.

[@renegade7548]

Ill be honest, young thanaton has the coolest design in the entire series. While Malgus, Revan and Vader have style, the amount of drip Kel had was absolutely amazing

[@adamsamess2163]

PLEASE do a post mortem on Darth Zash.... the other main catalyst of the swtor sith inquisitor story.... extremely interesting character and from what we know, seriously powerful

[@tiredjediknight3110]

Zash is a tough character to analyse, there's some notable and impressive accomplishments but she's an unknown in many areas.

[@adamsamess2163]

A Sarcastic Avatar well, similar to thanaton we dont have much in lightsaber combat except for the occasional lightsaber strike within in game combat, she also shows basic use of lightsaber combat in other areas of the game. Force powers are alot more juicy. Master of illusions, able to kill people in mere seconds using her force lightning, able to perform essence transfer, able to use tutaminis , force storms, force drain, whirlwinds and death fields. Stated as one of the few sith to be able to use tulak hords legendary rituals without losing her mind we know from in game she’s equipped with a curved bladed purple lightsaber which has blade emitter guards.

[@tiredjediknight3110]

@@adamsamess2163 don't get me wrong zash can be examined well enough in certain areas, like you've said in the realm of force abilities we have a lot to work with (though we must consider the idea a lot of her knowledge base is ritualistic in nature) but she is a relative unknown in the realm of lightsaber combat beside a few moves we've seen her perform. For a fair full analysis we need to be able to properly examine all areas of a characters skillsets and in my view there isn't enough presented for us to work with to make a solid enough analysis in that area. However having said that Zash would make a good versus character if we restricted it to a force abilities duel and pitted her against a character that also only uses their lightsaber as a supplement to the power in the force. She's definitely an interesting character that needs more attention though. I would like to see her in some project and I'll put some further research into her myself and see if I missed things the first time around.

[@adamsamess2163]

A Sarcastic Avatar good analysis you put forward there Id say its genuinely just due to her time period of when she was sith. She was born in an area where unless you were a sith warrior, you were a sith sorcerer, and given her force talents she put all her eggs in one basket. IMO it would be far less interesting to pit her against a pure lightsaber combatant, simply because if they can simply leap at her, they will win. Id much rather see a pure force duel between her and the likes of Zannah.King Omen, Naga Sadow... other reputable sorcerers, heck i wouldve loved to see a pure force battle between zash and thanaton, she was devious enough to lure him into thinking she was some weakling in the force when in reality she was anything but

[@warlorddavid8290]

Yes thank you! I have been asking for a Darth Thanaton video. now Darth Thanaton vs Darth Baras?:)

[@dragonballtalk8527]

Not my boy maggot in there

[@zackthezabarak739]

Quinlan Vos and Lucien Draay vs Darth Azard and xanatos ( the Jedi radicals vs the darkside murderers) both teams have a three and a four, both teams are highly capable .... I just really want a match with Lucien Draay and Quinlan Vos in the same video, be it as allies or enemies. They are both Jedi who lost their way and had their stories end with them finding inner peace after undergoing lives of violence and turmoil.

[@sonofluke3172]

Very good analysis. Darth Thanaton is on the Dark Council for a reason. I only wish the other members got fleshed out as much as he did.

[@jamesmoreno5282]

Good to have you back

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I'd love to see a versus video with Corran Horn! I'm going to read I, Jedi soon so I'll get to know more about his character.

[@robgeorge4581]

Im looking forward to Darth Thanaton vs Corran Horn though I find the post mortem coming out now to be quite odd. This should be called pre-mortem 4 then rather than Post Mortem 4. With that out of the way, I love me some Darth Thanaton so Im interested in your breakdown of him. Physicality: Uhh given Thanaton's endurance/constitution, I feel more confident in calling him tier 2.5/tier 2-. At first glance he is a jack of all stats. In reality, he is diet Darth Wredd with high dexterity. Btw, didn't his armored robes have chemical stimulants giving him a boosted performance level? 5:04 Ohh, this makes sense. We are doing a post mortem of both Teneb Kell and Darth Thanaton. Ehh, I would consider calling Thanaton a tier 3. He is below average in everything but 1 trait to carry him through. In his case, being an indestructible old man. lol at that description btw. Also, if Kota is made of concrete, Kenobi is made of Highground, what the hell is Thanaton made of? Sith Alchemy? Dueling skills: Totally agree with calling Teneb Kell a tier 5. He is in a similar boat as Darth Wredd. A jack of all trades master of none who relies on grit, experience, and adaptability to make up for skill difference. 8:50 Ehh he isn't archetypal niman. That honor goes to Othone. Basically, ass. Though maybe Thanaton is a tad better than you give him credit? idk because as you said, lack of feats. 12:47 Yeah I agree with this rating. That fact that Kreesh can kick his ass and actual feats amount to him being better than average and extremely cunning, but that's about it. Why are you calling mid level tactical enforcer though? If Kell is mid level tactically, what is top level? 15:13 Damn. We are considering Thanaton tier 1? 15:22 What is this? A +/- system in post Mortem? Yes! My prayers have been answered! Though I feel Thanaton in tier 1- is for a very diff reason than Vader. Vader has tier 1 skill, and tier 1-bottom tier 1+ force power (depends on how great powercreep from ROTS to ROTJ Sidious had) but was lacking in ancient sith lore and limitations as a force wielder. Thanaton has the knowledge and the capacity that Vader does not, but lacks Vader's skill and developed power (unless Thanaton has a ritual to pull out). 16:35 Had a feeling this comparison was coming and I love it. I greatly agree that Teneb Kell is in the same boat as Darth Wredd and would love a matchup between the 2. 2 jack of all trade master of none Sith's who rely on their endurance and tactical finesse to overcome adepts of greater power and skill then themselves. 17:05 In Thanaton's defense, he is a ridic powerhouse with a crap ton of Sith Sorcery hax. A shame he doesn't balance out his skillset like he did in his youth though and relied on his godly force power+hax to win. Really interesting looking at the same 2 character at the beginning of the beginning and end of their developments. Surprised you basically got 2 pre-mortems done in under 20 minutes. Looking forward to Thanaton vs Corran Horn a lot. As for who wins, my money is on Horn. Horn wrecks Thanaton as a swordsman. While Thanaton can curbstomp Horn in a heartbeat if he spams tk, Thanaton instead relies on lightning and sorcery to kill people, which Horn is perfectly optimized to deal with. Feed on lightning to amp himself and skill with battlemind+force illusions deals with most of Thanaton's sorcery. Still interested in that crossover video and who knows. Maybe your verdict will surprise me. Edit: Thanks so much for the love Jensarrai1!

[@TrajGreekFire]

For me Vader is 1.5

[@robgeorge4581]

@@TrajGreekFire Personally consider Vader a tier 1-. For a frame of reference the diff between a tier 1.5 and a tier 1- is that a tier 1.5 is diet tier 1 while tier 1- is a tier 1 with notable shortcomings. Vader is a tier 1- in my eyes because of his impaired mobility +dexterity, his dueling style leans heavily on his strength and as a force wielder, lack of a solid knowledge of the arcane aspects of Sith Lore and lack of faculty with a couple of force abilities really weigh him down in my eyes. But that's how I look at things at least.

[@TrajGreekFire]

@@robgeorge4581 every 1.5 is already top tier, so 1.5 compared to tier 1 is not a bad thing. Malgus, Kun, Malak, Kyle Katarn, Dooku, Kyp Durron are all comparable to tier 1 characters, I mean look at Vader vs Yoda match up.

[@robgeorge4581]

@@TrajGreekFire I agree. There is nothing wrong with being a tier 1.5 and they are already generally considered to be top tier. I just have a slightly diff system that's all.

[@jake4599]

@@robgeorge4581 Vader a tier 1? Yikes.

[@_Nilrem_]

Nice to see Thanaton in a matchup. Would like to see Darth Baras in a matchup as well.

[@banethesithari]

How can you think Thanaton curbstomps vader with force abilities but Yoda cant ? a guy who is orders a magnitude more powerful than thanaton. Thanatons lightening whirlwind looked good but did no damage to the area around the inquisitor and wasn't even noticeably effecting any of the other council members in the room. Yet yoda throws around thousands of droidika and multiple massive droid transport ships and even knocks back darth sidious with his telekinesis

[@crimansizers5840]

Are you talking about legends or new canon? Cuz the feat I think you are talking about was an unprepared Sidious from canon. Swtor is Legends and Legends Vader is less Impressive

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@crimansizers5840 Jen has admitted that Canon Vader is consistent with his Legends continuity version and Disney actually "gets him right" but uses Legends because he has more duels against high level threats while Disney Canon Vader seems to stomp every jedi because most of Disney Canon has him stomp everyone. That being said, Thanaton still wins or stomps for the fact that Vader's suit literally has a weakness to lightning and if starkiller's lightning was enough to disable vader's suit, then thanaton, who's leagues above him, would one shot Vader. Vader absorbs the first bolts with his lightsaber, then he gets fucked over once Thanaton amplifies it

[@chiefttr]

Very in-depth analysis, though I must say one thing. There was much repeated information, which at times made it a tad frustrating as a viewer. Note I'm not saying to not repeat information at all, just maybe a little less? Keep up the great work.

[@ariesstorm9577]

Hmmm could Thanaton have been a user of Form III? As an Inquisitor he obviously focuses on his ability to use the Force and his lightsaber is used as a final means of defence. You mentioned that in-game in gets in the occasional hit with his lightsaber, which to me sounds a little bit like Ben Kenobi in ANH. I never got round to playing SWTOR but I love the lore and characters it produced, it baffled me why the Inquisitors or Consulars were never assigned a lightsaber Form. Makashi, Soresu and Niman surely would have suited those classes. Anywho this was a great pre-post-mortem video, did we get a post mortem for your previous vs match? 🤔

[@edwaiwood2416]

I thought Darth Thanaton's force level was a sure tier 2 (same for overall) the most that can be achieved with pure dedication but not absolute, rivaling Darth Jadus "we cant fight him on our own his power is second only to the emperor's (Watcher Two)" and beneath Emperor Vitiate, a Tier 1. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWa7Z55mas58mrs (4:28.) If bold claims can be accepted as doctrine. It works for Sidious despite ruling in a time with only fledgling Jedi who have lost their way and one broken Sith Lord to threaten him.

[@zackthezabarak739]

Excellent video as always

[@Soriichi]

I love these vids. Rico posted a vid yesterday. Any hints as to what's your next video about?

[@JojoushiPWI]

I'm a simple boy. I see new Jensaarai video, I click like and watch ^_^

[@josephrousell2818]

Great minds think alike!

[@JojoushiPWI]

@@josephrousell2818 indeed!

[@watchface6836]

Personally I’d rate Teneb Kel just a little bit higher. While I agree on the individual ratings of his attributes I think his tactical ingenuity would put him a bit above Tier 5, but not quite Tier 4.

[@robgeorge4581]

Like a tier 4.5?

[@JynxedKoma]

How Darth Fannyton (Darth Runaway) ever got on the Dark Council will always be beyond me...

[@ronaldritchie1301]

I brought this up once but I don't remember if it was to you but what do you think of Teneb Kel and Darth Thanaton versus Padawan Obi Wan Kenobi and Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi.

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

Happy New year!

[@TBAL83-Social]

This is good work and assessment. Appreciated (Credit where due).

[@ironinquisitor3656]

When I get editing software I want to start doing versus videos too. I want to do a two on two team battle. The first team will consist of Gorc and Pic from Jedi Knight but I'm having difficulty figuring out who I want to use against them. I've though of Toki Tollivar as someone to use against Gorc and Pic but I can't think of another person to team up with Tollivar.

[@zackthezabarak739]

Agen Kolar vs Quigon Jinn.

[@Rewwgh]

Ah excellent. He was a cool villain and he had style.

[@alexanderestes9680]

Hey Jen! Can u do a post Mortem special on Ahsoka Tano as a padawan in TCW and as an adult in Rebels, plus give your opinion on the character and finally do two matchups with her, one called padawan Ahsoka vs Nadarr Vabb and adult Ahsoka vs Rahm Kota.

[@lapplandkun9273]

she's likely a tier 6/7 in lightsaber and force abilities and a high tier 7, just reaching low to mid low tier 6 overall. She was stated to have a natural talent, affinity with the force, and stood off from the average padawans in the jedi temple. She fought against TCW grievous, ventress and though she didn't win any of her duels, she did give them a good fight. (Even as I myself who is a fan of the series admit the powerscaling in TCW is all over the place). Both anakin and obi wan are inferred to have trained her as the seasons of TCW progressed, and likely she grew slowly in the tiers as the show progressed, developing her skills. As she gained a second blade and learned jar kai up until she left the jedi order, she likely capped out at a mid-tier 6. In Rebels, she fought against vader, even contending for a brief time against his superhuman strength. From one of the versus content creators (can't remember who), they stated that ahsoka's growth from TCW season 7 to rebels was more spiritual than actually growing stronger in combat and this was also stated by dave filoni. So ahsoka likely had a stronger connection with the force in rebels. She participated in battles against the inquisitors and was vastly superior to them in strength. And again, matched the cybernetic monstrous strength of darth vader, though only for a brief time, and blindsided him as he was distracted with kanan and ezra. I'd place her at tier 4. She's a mid jedi master level who can hold her own against one of the greatest in galactic history.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

@@lapplandkun9273 Tier 6 ? I'd say TCW Ahsoka is more of a Tier 5, maybe 4.5 by Season 7. She mastered her Ataru/Shien mix Jar'Kai, she was able to defeat Trandoshans unarmed. Yes, TCW is heavily bogged down by PIS, plot convenience and just wonky feats, but the fights she put up against Grievous, Ventress and Maul do show she is capable. And yeah, her raising to Tier 4 in Rebels seems right. Heck, by the time of The Mandalorian, she FINALLY seems to realize how pointless the reverse grip is, and keep it only for close quarters with her shoto only. One could say she slowly shifted from just Ataru/Shien hybrid, to Niman layered upon them, as she uses the Force more fluidly in Rebels and Mando. Basically, she's Starkiller clone lite, more measured and restrained, and certainly less powerful.

[@Daldi564]

Would it be inaccurate to compare Darth Thanaton to Joruus C'Baoth?

[@robgeorge4581]

C'Baoth has nothing short of a fabulous wizard beard. Thanaton does not.

[@Daldi564]

@@robgeorge4581 I think you mean he had an insane beard. ;) I'm also saying that since both were primarily combative Force Wielders, there is a comparison

[@robgeorge4581]

@@Daldi564 Your right his beard is insane. Seriously, look how long it is. It is an interesting matchup btw.

[@tiredjediknight3110]

They would make good opponents for each other. I'd personally back Thanaton though myself.

[@tenebkel5821]

That would be a wonderful comparison.

[@TheCongaFury]

Nice video!

[@aaronmiller4811]

Great video as always so are you going to put one out for Corran as well?

[@emmanuelmorris7653]

Can you do Adi Gallia?

[@SpaceMonke99]

He’s more like tier 100 everything after the downscaling mechanic was added.

[@ghareebcolt3954]

My money's on Corran. Can't wait for the video.

[@mrrobovter4535]

You should really play SWTOR dude, I'm sure, somone like you would like the story and lore focus👍

[@zackthezabarak739]

Can I talk you into a commission? There’s two or three match ups I’ve really wanted to see in strikezone/ post mortem and I’d be happy to donate a little towards your efforts if you made it . Even if the answer is no a response is appreciated.

[@zackthezabarak739]

Darth Marr vs Darth Jadus. Two gods of the old republic sith, they were masters of the lightsaber and the force and were almost unrivaled by others in the dark council or Jedi.Except for vitiate, they were the top dogs of the sith order. Only Thanatos or Malgus had a snow balls chance in hell against them and the odds weren’t good then. These two in a watch match would be like Apollo Creed vs Rocky. Agen Kolar vs Wolff Sazen. Both are zabarak Jedi masters who lived during times of war and were capable duelist sand force unsers. I admit that agen would be the better swordsman, if a bit less experienced. ( only two duels yo his name Quinlan Vos and Sidious and sidious was more of an execution)but Sazen has gone toe to toe with the greatest siths of his era( minus krayt, Wrrlock or havok) and while he didn’t always win he performed well. I think it would be fun because it’s natural talent vs experience. If I had to rank them I’d say agen is a tier 3 while Sazen is a tier 4.

[@Fulcron13]

Next Time, do Darth Maul vs Darth Wyyrlok III, Darth Vader vs Darth Vitiate, and/or Exar Kun vs Darth Krayt. Or perhaps Exar Kun reborn spirit vs Krayt reborn.

[@TrajGreekFire]

Have you read Legacy? Wyyrlok was #2 in the order after Krayt. How Maul is able to defeat him?

[@wristofkings]

Wyyrlok. Vitiate. Still waiting on that inevitable Kun/Krayt matchup.

[@TrajGreekFire]

Arca Jeth vs Joruus C'baoth

[@kadindarklord]

@3:34 A major typo there, assassination.

[@Jensaarai1]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iprQZqGLaKmqf6c

[@johndiaz4480]

Always a pleasure to like your vids first

[@redjirachi1]

Darth Thanaton? If that isn't an edgelord name, I don't know what is

[@Wright805]

It's from the Greek word "Thanatos." It means "death."

[@dianabarnett6886]

I think Corran Horn is going to destroy this guy. He's got the perfect set of skills to completely ruin the day of a Sith Inquisitor.

[@patrykrogala447]

Just saying the Sith Inquisitor character is NOT Kallig. Kallig is his/her ancestor.

[@zackthezabarak739]

Colman treber vs ninth brother inquistitor.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

You mean Eighth Brother ?

[@zackthezabarak739]

Yeah sorry I meant eighth.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

@@zackthezabarak739 That would be a funny Aprils Fool video lol

[@dar-nakkallig]

Thanaton spams his lightning hehehe

[@jonathancampbell5231]

Thanaton was a disappointing antagonist, but that might be more due to who he was up against and how that story played out than his own failings. The Inquisitor storyline is a three-act structure where the main villain is shown to be out-of-his-league in the second act, and further he's more reactive than proactive- he only opposes you because he's a traditionalist and not because he's got a vision or anything special. Basically, he might have been a better villain either if the Sith Inquisitor was not so OP so quickly, or if he was simply the villain of a different story and protagonist entirely. As it happens I guess he's basically a weaker version of Plagueis in terms of capabilities, and just run-of-the-mill in terms of ambitions, or lack thereof.

[@DarthCuddlefluff]

I know that guy!

[@QoQabai658]

I truly love the imperial sith (the true sith) Thanaton could've gave 'any' of the modern day (Bane Era) sith a run for their money and he wasn't even the strongest of the imperials. All hail Darth Nox though! The lord that defeated the legendary Thanaton. He definitely earned that praise.

[@geoffreyedgson7875]

I agree and disagree with your statement, depending on the context. The Imperial Sith were very overt, and able to practice and use the Dark Side of the Force openly and consistently. This did allow them to develop more than the Bane Era or Rule-of-Two Sith due to the limitations of their status in hiding. However, The Rule of Two was able consolidating all of the Darkside within only two Sith Lords, all of the knowledge, power, rituals, philosophy, and options in two vessels, with them choosing on their own configuration of different skills. Only the top-tier from the Imperial Sith would be able to fight even the base-line Banite Sith. Even those with Acolyte status under the Rule of Two, Darth Maul, Asajj Ventress, Executor Severus, or Mara Jade (pre-skywalker), were leagues above base-line Imperial Sith. While the top-tier's such as Count Dooku, Darth Zannah, Darth Vader, and Darth Sidious would outclass all but the 1-5% god-tier league of the Imperial Sith.

[@QoQabai658]

@@geoffreyedgson7875 You're somewhat right but you said it yourself....the Imperials practiced openly in the Darkside. It's like a Harvard kid going debate for debate with a community college kid (Banes sith) the education is far from equal, although, Banes sith were far less predictable. Still though, because of the Imperial's 'blood' connection to the original sith people. They clearly had a greater access to the more obscure and volatile secrets of the Darkside. Secrets that were long lost by Bane's time. And it was 'that' which made them greater. As Darth Andeddu so finely put it, "Knowledge is power." And the Imperials had plenty of it.

[@geoffreyedgson7875]

@@QoQabai658 Actually, the context I had in-mind is reversed in your description here. The community college students often apply their skills or disciplines elsewhere in the world or the work-force or can go on to higher institutions. The Harvard students would be from an institution with more resources, archives and possibilities open to them immediately and often invest all of their lives into higher occupations or become scholars who publish within closed academic circles. I disagree over how many Force secrets were "lost" during Bane's time, as Bane himself always sought-out more holocrons and become so great though the archives that the Brotherhood of Darkness gathered but largely ignored. Also, the Banite Sith were always looking to acquire more and more knowledge and power, and did so across 1,000 years. They were also evidently successful, if Darth Sidious' repositories of knowledge on Byss, Coruscant and elsewhere or Lumayia's personal collection is any indication. Also, by their nature the Imperial Sith were also highly competitive, and turned their knowledge and secrets on each other. This would have allowed them to experiment or uncover more skills, powers, methods, and more, as Darth Nox did. But also meant that anything they uncovered was often lost when a rival died, hidden from each other, or destroyed out of spite. As Darth Nox's darkside-choice after ascending to the Dark Council indicates, or Emperor Vitiate did inside the Dark Temple on Domund Kas. The Rule-of-Two left everything available to the true Sith Lords, and many of them advanced their own experiments or research according to their own ideologies and goals, as Emperor Sidious, Darth Plageuis, and Darth Tenebrous did. As Bane himself used as a metaphor, the Darkside was like poison that the Sith drew from. But whereas the older Sith would produce additional cups and spread the poison thin across multiple beings, the Rule-of-Two concentrated the Darksdie within two vessels (and occasionally more) leaving them with fewer numbers but far greater potency and lethality.

[@QoQabai658]

@@geoffreyedgson7875 It's so nice to meet someone whose knowledge of the sith rivals my own. And in a way the Imperials and the Rule of Twos were nearly equal from a certain point of view.....R.O.T.S had Darths Plagueis and Sidious while the I.S. had Malgus, Marr, and Jadus. Those are some huge powers i just named and i doubt Vitiate himself could've made any larger difference. You seem to greatly admire the ROT sith but it's just something about the ancients that will always draw me. From Remulus Dreypa to Aloysius Kallig (my favorite ancient as Tulak Horde feared him.) I hold the ancients very high. But thanks for your extensive sith knowledge and articulate description of sith history. This has been fun.

[@maxmustermann9058]

@Darth Thanaton Sorry but nothing Thanaton has done comes close to Legends Sidious. Sidious was stronger in the force than a Yoda who smashed giant ships together, was stated to be the strongest, blitzed multiple council masters and so forth. Bane has better feats then Thanaton.

[@williamsullivan7818]

Teneb Kel vs Zayne carrick.

[@darren01ify]

Anakin Skywalker vs Darth Malgus

[@MarkLeel]

Darth Malgus wins that easily.

[@darren01ify]

@@MarkLeel I'm not so sure about that.

[@SGK1206]

Anakin

[@wristofkings]

False Emperor Malgus edges out ROTS Anakin but in the toughest fight of his entire career. Anakin has the better dueling and speed feats in his corner on paper and if we're taking Knightfall Vader Malgus will have a terrible time, but Malgus' command of combative Force powers, extensive battlefield experience, heavy armor and Dark Rage keeps him viable. I don't see either tiring out easily, so it'll just be an all-out slugging match until one finally makes a mistake and goes down.

[@robgeorge4581]

Malgus as long as this isn't Sand Amped Skywalker or Knightfall Skywalker. Im sure base ROTS Anakin puts up a solid fight against the False Emperor though.

[@joshuaaustin-rivers1996]

Lucien Draay VS Qui Gon JInn

[@tiredjediknight3110]

Probably Jinn but good fight.

[@erieperry8241]

while i admit Thanaton was powerful Sith I found him to be rather dull as a character. his thinking always limited by his devotion to tradition. ironically becoming chained himself to a tradition that teaches to break free from the chains of limitations

[@Matli1804]

I see your point but I think he’s the perfect rival to darth nox because there origins are so similar both were slaves before becoming sith both betrayed their masters both used a double bladed lightsaber at one point or another both killed their predecessors in the dark council it’s not made clear that thanaton killed his superior on the dark council but I think it’s pretty obvious they say he died of mysterious circumstances given how discrete thanaton likes to be I think we can safely say it was him

[@Anthony-jo7up]

I really liked Thanaton’s character because of that actually. A sith who focuses on tradition and order above all else. The thing that annoyed me was that at the end he never accepted his fate and the results of his own sith traditions. It would have been a perfect ending in my opinion if he went out like Darth Tenebrous, applauding the attributes the inquisitor utilized to defeat him, understanding that the sith would grow stronger as a result. Instead at the end he rejected his traditions and beliefs which seemed to break character or at the very least damage it by showing that he never cared and was just a hypocrite the entire time. A sith “academic” type is a great idea and I wish it were fully realized.

[@The1Floyd]

He respec'd to Sith Sorcerer? That's not even possible in game... unsubscribe

[@XellDincht]

he was such a boring villain in the Sith Inquisitor campaign that i wished that overseer Harkun was the final boss...

[@dragonballtalk8527]

I love your vids .team up with joseph scrimshaw and ken napzack on force center

[@dragonballtalk8527]

Thumbnail fucked up

[@umor9014]

Man I really like the fights from blood of the Empire they are freaking raw Antares Draco vs Aurra Sing, the most heroic non-jedi vs the most depraved non-sith Shaak Ti and Maris Brood vs Quinlan Vos and Aayla Secura

[@TrajGreekFire]

Draco beats Sing

[@umor9014]

@@TrajGreekFire probably, but it would be a good fight, Aurra gave Qui-Gon and Kenobi a very good fight in a 2v1

[@wristofkings]

Probably Aurra after a good fight. Shaak solos.

[@tiredjediknight3110]

Good fight but I lean Draco. Shaak and Maris.

[@robgeorge4581]

Draco is an ass but he would probably win. Maris sucks but Shaak Ti more than pulls her weight for a win. Pretty sure Shaak could take both Vos and Aayla on at the same time and come out on top.