Hogan's Alley retrospective: The other light gun game | NES Works

[@AustinofEarth]

This is the first time someone has explained the light gun tech and why it won't work on current televisions in a way that actually satisfied my curiosity. I remember people believed it had something to do with CRTs being curved. You are doing God's work here T-Frog. Appreciate ya!

[@whookidd1979]

I still love this game

[@esmooth919]

Even back when I didn't understand how the light detection technology work, I always appreciated the flash on the screen, because it made me feel like a bullet was coming out of my gun, and actually hitting the targets You know what I mean?

[@CoryTheRaven]

I loved Hogan's Alley! I first saw the arcade version, and still have my NES copy (though I can't play it anymore, of course). It was a fun change from Duck Hunt and I enjoyed the character designs. That black-clad gangster is a classic!

[@TanookiSuit]

This game is hardly forgettable. It was one of the 4 I got Christmas 1985 and I played it until I had no more CRTs. I can't wait for those online projects being baked up right now that rig up a zapper to take on a LCD. I miss this, Duck Hunt, and my decades later pick up on Wild Gunman too.

[@esmooth919]

Tanooki Suit I know right. My older cousin had Hogan's alley, but I had duck hunt and I played the shit out of that

[@rashidisw]

Its more likely to have modified ROMs hacks that handle the extra lags/delays that introduced by modern monitor rather than hardware (Zapper) rigs/hack.

[@LorenHelgeson]

Right? I never played Wild Gunman. Barely played Duck Hunt. Played the hell out of Hogan's Alley.

[@edstar83]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4S1ppeippWHjas

[@rpavlik]

I definitely remember Hogan's Alley, but mostly from ads etc. Never played it myself. I _didn't_ know that the bttf2 Wild Gunman had a NES incarnation.

[@RotundRager]

I actually played a bunch of Hogan's Alley as a kid and I enjoyed it a lot. I had never played Wild Gunmen though, so it may be that I simply didn't know what I was missing if that's the bar most people were setting at the time.

[@shmupshmuppewpew5260]

This is my favorite zapper game, hands down. You're right that it lacks personality when compared with Duck Hunt or Wild Gunman. But it's not trying to be those games. It's a straight-forward gallery shooter with a few flavors, all of which do beautifully what they aim to do.

[@MrPurple3000]

You did an excellent job explaining the Zapper tech in a comprehensible and straightforward manner.

[@JohnSegerclucka]

I loved this game and spent many hours playing it. It's not forgettable. I love light gun games and this one was fun

[@jj48]

Hogan's Alley was my favorite NES light gun game growing up.

[@Konuvis]

Very good video! Hogan's Alley was the only light gun game I had back then (iirc). Just the fact of playing a gun game at home was tons of fun at the time.

[@THEmuteKi]

This is why I follow your stuff. Damn good video.

[@weston407]

I had this game as a kid and played it all the time!

[@unoclay]

This was such a stunningly good overview of lightguns. But I was also excited to watch your coverage of HA because it is among the very first video games I can recall ever seeing in my life. A Pizza Hut near my PA home had one, and i remember it being a rare case of being easy enough (at first) for even me, a kid, to play. I was really young--like maybe 7-8 years old--but i remember being able to at least kill a few bad guys and get a little way into the game, meaning naturally, i was OBSESSED with going to pizza hut every chance i got. It isnt as deep as I wish, but i still have fun dabbling with mode B and C occasionally on my CRT as an adult. Can shooting is especially great.

[@deepx77]

You put a lot of effort and research in your episodes. Respect

[@smpleleo]

this channel is so classy I really enjoy all your videos!

[@Justin-TPG]

Hi, Jeremy. Just to correct a mistake you made in commentary. The TVs are 60Hz, not 60MHz. It's a common mistake but I suspect it was just a slip of the tongue. Enjoying this and Game Boy World hugely. You're doing a great job capturing these games. Thank you.

[@JeremyParish]

+Tinpotgamer I don't know about you, but I refuse to settle for anything less than 6,000 frames per second.

[@chrisnizer1885]

Does anyone remember Hogan's Alley?? Hell yeah! That was an AWESOME game. I pumped a LOT of quarters into that game back in the arcade era. One of the greatest classic games of all time.

[@esmooth919]

And my cousin had a copy on his NES, which is how I found out about it

[@theologamer]

Thanks for the hard work!

[@BlackburnBigdragon]

It's not just zapper games that have a rough time on flat screen TV's. I have an Atari 2600, and I've discovered that games that are designed to use flickering sprites, games like Asteroids and Pac Man, have a lot of problems on a lot of flat screens. I know on every flat screen I own, Asteroids is completely unplayable because you can't see the asteroids. The screens don't handle the flickering properly and make the asteroids invisible when there's a lot of them on the screen.

[@JeremyParish]

I wonder if that's an issue with the flatscreen tech itself, or just their cheap built-in upscalers not properly reconciling framerates between different standards. I know when people upload NES games at 30fps to KZbin instead of 60fps, flashing or flickering sprites (e.g. when Mega Man takes damage, or the alternating sprites on the upper bodies of the crabs in Mario Bros.) sometimes appear invisible because only half the frames are being shown.

[@BlackburnBigdragon]

@@JeremyParish I have no clue. I have two flatscreens and have tried my Atari on a friend's flatscreen and all suffered from the same issue. We tried "Asteroids" on all of them and it was almost unplayable when the screen flicker got bad. Everything turned invisible. The funny thing is, when I run an Atari emulator on my PC, which has a flatscreen, there's no problem. But yeah. Most games were okay, but if there was a LOT of flicker, things just.. disappear on the flat screens. "Adventure". If you have all the items on the same screen and get them all flashing.. and you have dead dragons on the screen... also.. were turning invisible. "Superman" suffered the same issue. "Pac Man", we had a really hard time seeing the ghosts. Luckily I still have an old CRT TV from back in the day.

[@gregorypappas766]

I just happened to come across your channel, I must say, I've watched a few vids, and they were all really well done, thanks for the quality videos and keep up the good work!

[@ArcaneAzmadi]

I'd long known that the Zapper wasn't a true lightgun and worked by reading the screen, but I'd never known exactly how it worked before- even though I'd subconscously noticed the flash that happened every time I fired, I never worked out what it was for aside from immersion. It pleases me to finally find out.

[@RetroPowerUp]

Definitely quite the convoluted setup to get a good screen capture!

[@folkenhellfang9468]

I played an arcade cabinet version of Hogan's alley just a few months before I bought an NES and fell in love with it. It was simple, but fun. Hogan's Alley was the first NES game I bought, and it was a game that my video game hating father bonded over. It's funny how high tech it seemed in 1985. Or was it 86? Either way, love that simple little game.

[@retrogamingcommentary4163]

I really enjoy these videos! I remember figuring out that the Zapper was a light sensor because it would register a hit in Duck Hunt if I just pointed it straight at a light bulb and fired while the duck was on screen. I know the video says that shouldn't work, but it did!

[@rootbeer_666]

Oddly enough, I remember Hogan’s Alley better than I do Wild Gunman, and initially thought you were referring to the former in your video on the latter. I’ve played neither, for what it’s worth, which is nothing.

[@bratticuss]

I remember seeing both of these games in the arcade.

[@GreenChillZone]

Wow, I never thought I'd see Evo Moment 37 on this series. Also, CRT is the best way to play old games. That's why I have three of them.

[@JeremyParish]

+Mike Rotch Plays Games No unrelated topic is safe!

[@RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS77]

I think it's not just lag but also the intensity of the light source

[@viskarn8210]

Hi, will you make a video of Gumshoe? I loved that game as a child and would love to see some history behind it :) Love your videos aswell, keep up the good work :)

[@batmandalorian5504]

"mostly forgotten" - except by me, who lived in the only household that had both Gumshoe and Hogan's Alley but did not have Duck Hunt haha

[@ddis29]

i miss my old gaming tv

[@michaelsegal3558]

I used to have this game I used to love this game

[@MaximumRD]

Heh I played this back in the day probably more than I should have.

[@KuraIthys]

The light gun really is an interesting, if strange bit of tech. The Super Scope is also interesting, but ironically is far more conventional. Basic principles are similar, btu the Super Scope is, on a technical level, a light pen. Light pens have been around a long time, and many 8 bit systems had them, including the c64, Atari 8 bit systems, and a bunch of others. A light pen ALSO doesn't work on a modern television, but the reason for this is because of the CRT scan pattern and persistence of vision. A CRT is physically scanning a beam across the surface of the display from left to right, and when it gets to the end of a row, it moves back to the left, and down a bit, and keeps going. The key point that makes a light pen possible is that while to human eyes this appears to create an image of uniform brightness, to a fast enough optical sensor, this really does resemble a bright dot moving quickly across the screen. Thus, given decent contrast (some screen patterns can confuse light pens), the light pen will detect the moment that this bright dot passes the sensor's field of view on the light pen. The difference between most light pens and the super scope, is that a light pen is designed to be held directly against the screen, while the super scope works at a distance. The operating principle is otherwise identical though. Anyway, so how do you determine screen coordinates from this? Well, the light pen sends a signal to the computer the moment the CRT's scanning dot passes it's sensor. The computer has been using a high accuracy timer that it starts at the beginning of each frame. When it gets that signal from the light pen sensor, it stops the timer, and calculates how much time has elapsed since the beginning of the frame. From this, the x and y screen coordinates the light pen was located at can be determined. So why doesn't this work on a modern display? Quite simply, where a CRT is a fast-moving dot that looks uniformly bright to a human, it isn't. LCD displays however, for historical reasons update their pixels in the same pattern as a CRT... But, and here's the crucial difference, a LCD never goes blank or dark; Each pixel is always lit, and the signal causes it to update pixel by pixel in a fixed pattern, with a smooth transition from one pixel value to the other. So while the screen transitions one pixel at a time from the first frame to the second, at no point is the screen getting darker. the entire screen is always lit up, with only the specified brightness of individual pixels varying as they're instructed to. Leave the screen powered on, but stop sending it information, and the LCD would effectively just keep showing the same thing indefinitely (except it's programmed to detect not getting any data) The CRT screen however is always in the process of fading. Stop sending it information, and it would quickly fade to black of it's own accord. So, the CRT naturally creates an uneven brightness, with the brightest point always being the exact point that is currently being updated. an LCD has uniform brightness all over, all the time, with only the values sent from the computer altering those brightness values for any reason. Therefore, while there IS an identifiable update location on an LCD, it cannot be identified as a consistent variation in brightness, it's always as bright as any other part of the screen with the same pixel value. Thus, light pens no longer work on an LCD, because the brightness variation they depend on no longer exists.

Since almost all of the multi-game cartridges that came with NES clones included Hogan's Alley, I'm pretty sure everybody who had one in the less developed parts of the World remembers it.

[@MoeMoeJoeJoe]

Is it possible to make a traditional light gun game for modern Television set if you take lag into account?

[@JeremyParish]

Someone-I think Retro-Bit?-was working on a solution and had a Duck Hunt demo up and running at PAX East a couple of years ago. But it was game-specific, not a one-size-fits-all approach.

[@angrytheclown801]

I thought Wild Gunman was the Chekov's Gun in Back to the Future since we see Marty play it in 2.

[@esmooth919]

7:02 This line made me laugh so hard! Wait for it...

[@JonGee420]

This and gumshoe were great games

[@MaxW-er1hm]

I always loved Hogan's alley, to childhood me it seemed like a police training simulator LOL.... "so realistic" 😮

[@kevinbowyer7205]

Enjoyable as always

[@86twin]

I got this game when my great uncle moved in with us back in ‘98 and I still have it to this day.

[@ThrivingInLife]

Great video!

[@Gadzooki]

"Does anybody remember Hogan's Alley?" I DO!!! This was the other game my Dad purchased when he brought home our first Nintendo. I cannot tell you how many hours were spent playing this game with my father. Now my 8 year old plays this game with me, same cartridge even! It's the only reason I've kept my CRT around (well that and Duck Hunt). You're right Jeremy, not much for character, but a great deal of fun. The tin can section was always my favorite of the three. By chance, do you know who wrote the short musical pieces in the game? Thanks Jeremy!

[@theobserver4214]

N. Middlebrook Keep that CRT for more. If it’s a good one, it may have S-Video or RGB. Maybe even Component!

[@KuraIthys]

@@theobserver4214 Maybe. But in my experience, most don't. ... Except in Europe where RGB Scart input is almost a given on any television made in the 90's or later. Everywhere else though... Good luck getting much beyond composite inputs. Of course, modding a television for RGB isn't as hard as it sounds, so there is that...

[@tuberic]

Yes, it was Hip Tanaka - www.hirokazutanaka.com/works/nintendo/video-games/

[@mindcrome]

What about Gumshoe

[@AleisterMeowley]

It’s essentially the original Big Buck Hunter.

[@MapleMilk]

Love the video But the last part about the nature of mortality in technological terms got me a bit down :-(

[@siskavard]

I still don't understand how the light gun knows WHERE you're shooting on the screen for judging accuracy if it can only read light coming in?

[@salpingite]

The "eye" within the gun acknowledges the luminous white of the target when the shot is fired. If the gun detects no light, no hit is registered. If it picks up the light of white, a hit is registered. This eye was pretty accurate but crude.

[@michaelsegal3558]

I would play the C-mode the most on Hogan’s Ally

[@rickdavis32]

Loved it!!!

[@michaelsegal3558]

I wonder why he said there were only 3 zapper games when there were actually 5 the fourth being Gumshoe and the fifth being Gotcha The Sport

[@toughmanrandysavage3077]

Wario ware touched. That's why most people know this game.

[@esmooth919]

I actually didn't learn about Wild Gunman until WarioWare: Mega Microgames, but I owned Duck Hunt, and my older cousin had a copy of Hogan's Alley.

[@michaelsegal3558]

But my favourite zapper game was Hogan’s Ally then second Wild Gunman then Duck Hunt then Gumshoe

[@comicdagamer190]

This game used to be fun asl when I was a kid

[@michaelsegal3558]

There was another zapper game called Gumshoe

[@LuckyHit]

Wow and here was us thinking the game footage you captured was via emulation. That's an amazing set up, what kind of CRT is that? :O

[@JeremyParish]

+Lucky Hit Sony PVM 1953, I think? Most PVMs starting at about 14" offered RGB passthrough.

[@KuraIthys]

@@JeremyParish I would've thought a splitter would be less convoluted. For composite I've seen passthrough cables such that multiple leads can plug into a single source. Splitting an analogue signal generally isn't that difficult...

[@GamingDelight]

KuraIthys Plus, is it possible to still record light gun gameplay like this?: Connect the system to a CRT via RF Connect the system to an upscaler (be it the Framemeister, RetroTINK, or OSSC) via composite (or RGB, if the NES is modded) Connect the upscaler to the capture card and TV via HDMI splitter

[@pavelyankouski4913]

Robocop shooting range

[@pflynn12]

I always wondered why games such as: duck hunt & yoshi's safari wasn't available on the Wii through virtual console, to me these were wasted opportunities since the technology was there

[@86twin]

The reason I remember it is because my great uncle left it with us when he moved to Oregon in ‘99. Still have it to this day.

[@soterioncoil2163]

My first three NES titles were Super Mario/Duck Hunt, Spy Hunter and Hogan's Alley. I liked Hogan's Alley better than Duck Hunt.

[@CactusJack]

Ended on a poignant note

[@the-NightStar]

It's funny because here in 2017, not only are the three men with the guns obviously a danger, but now, the lady, the professor and the cop could all technically be bad guys as well. In a society like ours now, would kids today see this and be confused why they shouldn't defend themselves from ALL of them, since there's no way to know for sure what kinds of people all 6 cutouts could be?

[@gimmedat5541]

Whats the problem with getting an CRT Television? Here in Germany people just put them on the sidewalk when they dont want them anymore. Just yesterday i saw like five CRT´s on the sidewalk.

[@ChristopherSobieniak]

That also happens here in the states as well.

[@krich451]

its not snobbish to want games to run at a framerate that doesnt suck.

[@JeremyParish]

+krich451 Did you get to the part where I'm going to idiotic lengths to capture NES light gun games at 720p/60fps?

[@krich451]

Jeremy Parish yes i did, but the comment was about the "after all the nes was running at the same standard 60fps standard that modern game tech snobs demand" statement. just wanna point out it doesnt make anybody a snob to want their games to run at a proper frame rate.

[@JeremyParish]

krich451 Sure, and I'm just pointing out that it was a comment drenched in humorous irony... or so I intended, anyway.

[@AustinofEarth]

+krich451 Sure, but there is quite a difference between a "sucky" frame rate that breaks the game, and a completely playable frame rate that people still seem to complain about and most wouldn't notice.

[@KuraIthys]

@@krich451 Except 'proper' framerate is extremely subjective once you get past about 15 fps, and because it's so subjective, it leads to endless, ENDLESS arguments. On top of which, I find most people that complain about framerates actually don't know what their underlying complaint even is. Very few people legitimately care about framerates. What they care about is latency. And that's not the same thing.

[@jamesmoss3424]

I will play Hogan's alley. 😀👍🎮

[@DrCorndog1]

Well, I was going to ask if anyone is still manufacturing CRT TVs, but you answered that in the video. Shame.

[@flippyjhomes4255]

Toco in 300 in 1 game i dont know is it

[@davidmckean955]

I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that by the time the world has run out of CRTs to emulate these games, we'll have display technology that will be capable of emulating CRT behavior.

[@BIayne]

If Hogan's Alley, Wild Gunman and Gumshoe were all in a single game, it would be considered a classic. But separately.. meh?

[@katie2940]

Or you could just emulate the game.

[@KesorodaBlk]

It would be funny to see those characters from Hogan's alley in another game!

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

They're technically part of the Duck Hunt Duo's Final Smash, if that helps.