Letby Conviction: Do you have doubts? Feat. Ayesha Hazarika & Carole Malone | Jeremy Vine

A panel of 14 medical experts led by Dr Shoo Lee, along with Letby's lawyers, have outlined what they claim is significant new evidence, and want her case reviewed.
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[@astridjones6327]

Carol does not have a CLUE what she is on about. She can shout and scream about “7 experienced consultants” all she likes, there is SO much more to this than she could even start to get her head around. At the very least, you can’t convict someone of murder based on anyones say so with no other evidence to back it up. She is so far off the mark, it is frightening.

[@ralphstube]

Jayaram's evidence has been disproved.

[@markh69]

Where did she get the number 7 from? Ive only seen 4

[@susansaxon4780]

@@astridjones6327 she has absolutely no concept or understanding of the presented medical evidence by these world renowned neonatologist, she think she knows more than them, Dr Lee has published over 400 medical papers, she has done none, she shouldn’t disrespect by dismissing these professionals, professor and heads of world renowned institutions in the world.

[@KingBee24]

It was originally just two consultants and the rest fell in line ... and they were the accusers !

[@8888Dino8888]

She just nasty

[@FuntieUK32]

Thickest debate i've ever seen. Panel have either not watched or not understood yesterday's press conference. The woman bleating on about believing the consultants is failing to grasp that their own deficiencies were causes of death in some cases. They had an interest in framing Lucy. She's obviously innocent. Maybe get some panelists with more than half a brain cell between them in future.

[@pisgah2715]

I feel your pain.

[@FuntieUK32]

​@pisgah2715 thank you bro 🙏

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

I think that’s a problem with mainstream TV. The bbc reports are terrible probably as they have to do all that impartiality reporting bollocks. The evidence to see this girl is clearly innocent is overwhelming after the press conference yesterday. The problem is you don’t have mainstream TV media championing miscarriages. The bbc hardly did with the post office scandal. Private Eye, Telegraph, talk tv and gb news are all doing a good job.

[@naveediqbal1259]

Could be they found a shoulder to put all the burden

[@christopherhines2718]

I knew she was innocent all along,and was used as a scapegoat.And now the truth is out.She did not murder any babies.

[@Redparrot47]

Prof Lee has written 400 papers on neonatal practices Evans has written zero none of lee’s papers has been challenged.

[@Busflower1]

Up till now I have been convinced Lucy Letby was guilty, until I heard the report yesterday. It was astounding to hear the medical explanations for each case. This report was compiled by top experts who have no personal interest in the case, who have not been paid to write the report, who have produced a medical report for the sake of science and medicine, explaining what happened and which now disputes the case of murder. It does make the hospital and some of the doctors look very incompetent. It’s sounding a lot like the “Horizon system that had no faults”.

[@kevb6313]

Since you are new to the prospect of a cover up/scapegoating, have a look into Dewi Evans as the senior consultant in the case of 10 year old Robbie Powell (I would recommend listening to John Sweeney Podcast) I believe Evans integrity is questionable at best and maybe there needs to be a review of the other 30 cases that he boasts about ’winning’

[@janlinden7685]

I agree and more to the point not working at Chester hospitsl and trying to cover anything up..

[@Raj-ul9my]

If there is no evidence she did this she should not have been charged or convicted it’s as simple as that.

[@patcresswell6736]

Circumstantial evidence at best. Why was she alone; Nurses should refuse to do these types of tasks alone! Do nothing more serious than washing up until the hospitals find another way to protect you.

[@Marielawlor-mz6nf]

Carol malone does not know her arse\ from her elbow thick as 2 short planks

[@StellaHanson-zq6pn]

Carol is extremely limited in her knowledge of how hospitals and doctors work...they DO make mistakes - close ranks and do cover up...and appeal court judges need evidence in full to make decisions. .I had my doubts about this case from day one.

[@hmh2518]

What a complete embarrassment of a panel, Jesus wept.

[@MrGRIZZLYBEAR101]

What ……

[@MargaretBassett-uf1fi]

Panelists have not got a clue, you can tell they just read the headlines.

[@paulgifford2411]

This woman resents the fact that experts have looked at this case and found genuine flaws In treatment and made it clear that no murders occurred. Does she not realise these experts have no interest in this,other than to expose the facts.

[@SuperStella1111]

Carol is on the panel to play the part of reactionary moron. It's her schtick, and probably insincere. It's galling to watch either way.

[@rl774]

Christ almighty, could you get a panel on your show who are anymore dense and who have clearly not taken in the subject they are passing comment on?

[@nicolacox4063]

They downgraded from level 2 to 1 when she was arrested, so they never accepted any more babies that sick. That’s why their stats improved. Silly woman.

[@SuperStella1111]

She's a professional moron. I think she does it deliberately. Her role on the panel is to play the part of professional idiot who just can't quite see what's in front of her. Maybe they think it's relatable. It's just insulting.

[@watnamecaniuseforfs]

The unit was downgraded in July 2016.....the same time Lucy was removed from the unit.

[@philipholding]

​@watnamecaniuseforfs the beds were reduced from 20 to 16. Also more consultant ward rounds, also a deep clean of the nicu.

[@christinaknight8241]

@@philipholding Wpw, They are very important points!

[@Jossywossy780]

This is a bizarre video. These panelist’s have so little knowledge of the case it’s just a bizarre 20 minutes

[@Yeldah.]

Don't know the two women featured , but why ask people to pass judgement on issues they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

[@pixiedragon83]

yes, this has been the problem with the entire case and why Lucy is in jail...people not sticking in their lanes and muddying opinion with their moronic ranting...

[@TashaCreatesStuff]

Jeremy, you really need to make sure your speakers are up to date on the topic before ignorantly spouting their mouths off. Carol clearly understands nothing and Ayesha is not much better. It's not a good look for your show. I won't be watching again if this is the standard of conversation.

[@SuperStella1111]

Carol is so embarassing.

[@janlinden7685]

it all went to pot when Matthew Wright left,,

[@AlexanderLintern-z7z]

Dr Shoo Lee alone has over 400 published peer-reviewed articles whilst Dr D Evans has written zero according to journalist JohnSweeney

[@Celticcross688]

exactly!

[@davidfay5683]

Hang on, Evans, the main prosecution expert witness who put himself forward to the police and has been discredited in another trial, was paid a million! Presumably of tax payers money. I find that very troubling.

[@SuperStella1111]

"I've got a theory of murder I can sell you! Pay me!" Exactly.

[@twogitsinacar4811]

Dr Shoo Lee has written 400 peer-reviewed papers, Evens has written none and his evidence has been discredited in the past. The international experts are working on a pro bono basis

[@pixiedragon83]

it was probably more...all we know is it was a 7 figure sum...a million is the least it could be...

[@fonrogers]

“I really feel for the families of those babies who died” of course we do but do we want someone locked up for the rest of their lives for a crime they did not commit? The answer should be NO. Nonsensical arguments.

[@patcresswell6736]

They deserve the truth; not lies and innocent victim.

[@stevenweaver9753]

@@fonrogers don’t forget Lucy family and friends and what they have been going through.

[@icystrangers5482]

This Carole? woman is ranting. What has "7 consultants working with Letby and knowing her better than the Canadian doctor" got to do with whether the skin discolouration can be caused by air injected into a vein as opposed to artery? What has it got to do with whether boluses of glucose can cause insulin highs and lows? What has it got to do with the baby's insulin to peptide level actual being with normal levels for a neonate? You can't get to justice with an emotional, defensive rant.

[@cupofteawithpoetry]

💯%

[@NikkiOwen]

Carol, the Dr whose paper was used, emphasised that it was discussing ARTERIAL injection of air to cause an embolism. It's impossible to do that in a venous line!

[@ianrichardson9950]

Tell Carol she needs to remember that Consultants are not Gods. They were supposed to do ward rounds twice a day, not twice a week.!!!

[@Priority76]

Release Lucy Letby, lock up Carol Malone.

[@harrysherriff7]

Carol can't handle being challenged

[@judithmorganjudyteen]

Every time !

[@shirleyac12]

Narcissist

[@SuperStella1111]

She's the professional moron on the panel; playing her role.

[@markjones5843]

That Carol is so smug , could you imagine if she was a judge !

[@kevb6313]

Imagine being married to that

[@markjones5843]

@@kevb6313 I couldn't think of much worse things than marriage to her. She's horrible

[@anthonyharris2634]

Unfortunately people like her become magistrates!

[@ianrichardson9950]

Would not want your panellist to sit on a jury. They did not clearly listen fully yesterday!!

[@EmmaFlesser]

Carole Malone would never think anyone convicted of a crime might be innocent. It's political with her. She is just so predictable.

[@allancrotch2953]

These 2 women are refusing to listen. Like the appeals court with the guy falsely imprisoned for rape.This country is becoming a sick joke

[@clarec7640]

The Lucy Letby case is positive proof that a large number of British people are stupid, easily deceived and believe everything the British media tells then. They are incapable of independent thinking. They are serfs who worship their masters. Bonhoeffers Theory of Stupidity explains this. You are correct other countries consider Britain to be a sick joke. It takes the top international experts from all over the world to prove Lucy Letby is innocent.

[@patcresswell6736]

Just a little defensive, scared to hear the alternative view, just shout. Just like those in that hospital at the time who kept quiet; did not question, because of the power of the Doctors over nurses.

[@S.Trades]

It's the ccrc that's a joke. They only appeal 3% of cases put to them.

[@lenkapenka6976]

Ayesha and Carol are quite frankly off the wall... clueless and easily led

[@mcfcaguerooo5697]

Nice to have these 3 celebrities sorting the whole thing out so they didn’t need any expert opinions in this “debate”

[@AnnaP-uh3mc]

Yep. The world is going to be screwed by people who think they know everything, despite having no expertise & no access to detailed information. I have no idea if she’s innocent or guilty, I haven’t heard all the evidence & I’m not a medical professional. Sounds like there needs to be an appeal, but this court of public opinion, led by a bunch of media personalities is just stupid.

[@mcfcaguerooo5697]

@ yep - the debate reminded me of the MMR vaccine scandal which was brought to national attention by none other than Anne Diamond - a panellist on Good morning TV. Vanessa Felz did her bit too - priceless - ps I too have no idea about her innocence or guilt but I see highly irresponsible stuff like this and I despair

[@Kurt-f2x]

These 2 women don't listen and don't want to listen

[@patcresswell6736]

What are they afraid of?

[@marksimpson7883]

Yes idiots get them off

[@missyks]

They have no brain

[@Kurt-f2x]

​@@patcresswell6736 Looking stupid

[@BlueEyes499]

We all care about the parents, that goes without saying. I’m sure they would want to know the truth! He isn’t just some professor from Canada, it was his work that was used by the prosecution, which he himself says is outdated and doesn’t support what the prosecution were saying. Clearly these idiots haven’t watched the press conference yesterday where this professor clearly explained why the alarm didn’t go off on the monitor! Go and watch it, listen and try to understand, although after watching this ‘debate’ I don’t hold out much hope 🙄

[@scottaznavourian3720]

Unreal what a bunch of sheep wil defend this prosecution. Jayraam has been proven to be lying

[@jackieemslie]

Carol they thought she was the best nurse. That consultant didn’t remember until a year later that he saw a nurse doing nothing an he is an attention seeker big time

[@twogitsinacar4811]

I think I'm right in saying that when a baby is in distress, the nurse should observe and do nothing for the first few minutes, several professionals have said this to me. The reason is you want to establish whether the distress is temporary, so you watch, observe and don't do anything initially.

[@kevb6313]

Spot on that’s one of the points I have just made - she conveniently forgot that when she was screaming at the caller

[@neilsmith9799]

@kevb6313 She can't forget what she didn't have a clue about in the first place. Disgraceful.

[@pavlaorm-n6192]

Did those two women actually listen to what was said at the press conference? These two beggar belief!

[@Plur-v4b-c2b]

Carole Malone watched enough of the press conference to note that Dr. Lee is one of those foreign types. How dare he comment on our NHS? And doesn't he understand how terrified that poor consultant must have been catching Lucy Letby "virtually red-handed". IIRC, he was so scared, it took him a year to mention the incident to anyone.

[@deedee46x]

@@Plur-v4b-c2babsolutely

[@deedee46x]

Get better people on your penal…these 2 are terrible.

[@pixiedragon83]

they clearly did not...tbf it was hard to understand due to the complex nature of the information and the strong accent of the Dr...even as a health care professional I struggled to follow all of what he said...so I do not believe for one second that either of these women watched it and fully absorbed the information presented...

[@lissyadams6497]

Very few channels have reported this correctly. Prof Lee did not say the hospital should be shut down, he said if this had happened in Canada the hospital would be shut down. It's like none of you actually listen.

[@dommarston23]

It's you who hasn't listened. At 1:33, Jeremy says exactly that. So Jeremy, on this channel HAS reported it correctly. "It's like none of you 🫵🏻 actually listen".

[@KingBee24]

@@dommarston23 It was the guest who said the hospital should be shut down.

[@christopherhines2718]

Thats basicly the same thing!

[@dommarston23]

@KingBee24 the criticism isn't valid when the very clip shows it IS reported correctly, by Jeremy.

[@judithmorganjudyteen]

Ayesha said that the doctor had said it practically her first statement

[@janlinden7685]

Carole needs to stop telling people to listen when she doesn't herself. the evidence they were using a research paper from the actual Dr who did this latest investigation at the trial who surely should have been used in the first trial rather than bringing him in now and yes the Drs did have an issue with Letby but that is no reason to use her as a scape goat when they didn;t know what they were doing which they obviously tried to cover up.

[@kevb6313]

Imagine having to work with her - worse still imagine being married to it

[@Raj-ul9my]

She never did anything to them….no cctv or any evidence of murder…….they had to convict someone as an escape goat so then the hospital and doctors would not be liable for the poor level of care. They made a case against her stating she injected air 😂😂😂 using a 1989 paper which was indeed misrepresented……she will be free. The women in the pink jacket can’t accept the facts cus she thinks about what it will do to the babies families but not what it’s done to Lucy’s family

[@patcresswell6736]

Lucy in prison and doubtless not a favorite pal for many women in that prison or guards.

[@ianrichardson9950]

Absolutely have doubts and always have. They did not let other nurses who worked with her give witness statements in her favour.

[@twogitsinacar4811]

Yes the threatened their careers if they spoke out. Thankfully Lucy's friends are sticking with her

[@wildandbarefoot]

Theres serious doubts. Release her pending appeal.

[@tashaax1993xanimalloverx]

Yet there was enough to prosecute? Y would it have happened...bit late now isnt it? Don't get this tbh...

[@susanferrie7233]

Keep Carol off your show Jeremy

[@thestratophile]

Shocking from Carol. I have worked with Consultants for over 30 years and they are not infallible. And NHS medical and management structures frequently close ranks when threatened - The Hospital and it's senior staff could potentially be 'covering there arses' here - if this is the case it is vital this is explored.

[@EcoSailor]

The bar for criminal prosecution in England is 'beyond reasonable doubt', which means 99.9% certainty of guilt. A panel of 14 if the most senior neonatal and other specialists from around the globe have volunteered their time and independently reviewed the medical notes for all 17 cases for which Lucy Letby was indicted and they have found causes for their collapses and/or deaths that were NOT murder. That's reasonable doubt right there. There was never a shred of evidence that Lucy ever harmed a single baby but the hospital and senior consultants had every reason to find a scapegoat and cover up their own failings, not least to avoid the medical negligence compensation claims that would have had to be settled had a dedicated nurse not been, conveniently, found guilty of murder. The entire case stinks and Lucy Letby should not spend another day behind bars. Her life has been ruined and the families of the babies have been unnecessarily dragged through this horror for years. No rational person would want to keep an innocent person in prison to protect the NHS from culpability. It's insane.

[@icystrangers5482]

You are contradiction yourself. If there is a "shred of evidence" for a coverup, there is also a "shred of evidence" for Letby's guilt. The question is whether it is beyond reasonable doubt.

[@EcoSailor]

@icystrangers5482 that's the whole point of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. There can be no conviction based on a 'shred of evidence' of guilt.

[@icystrangers5482]

@@EcoSailor You said there is no shred of evidence of guilt. Equally, one could argue that there is no shred of evidence of a coverup.

[@EcoSailor]

@icystrangers5482 I said the hospital and consultants had reasons to cover up medical malpractice and negligence. Do not twist my words to fit your preferred narrative. A nurse is in prison for crimes that almost certainly never occurred. The bar of 'reasonable doubt' has been shattered by the findings of some of the most qualified neonatologists in the world. What part of that is so difficult for you to understand?

[@icystrangers5482]

@@EcoSailor I am not twisting your words. I am saying that if there is, as you claim, "no shred of evidence" that Letby is guilty, then there is "no shred of evidence" that the consultants covered anything up. Go and read your post and ask yourself why you inserted "but" in the sentence and compared "shred of evidence of guilt" with "every reason to engage in a coverup". I am simply pointing out your bias.

[@TalentpraxisGroup-cr6hz]

Confirmatory bias from the panel and the perceptions of the Consultants. The facts were laid out clearly yesterday - I'm not saying she is guilty or not guilty - personally, and objectively, I don't think the evidence was sufficient to convict her. We seem to be in the realms of perceived Consultant incompetence and organisational failings.

[@susansaxon4780]

Evan’s is NOT a neonatologist he was a paediatrician and when he did the case he wasn’t licensed by the GMC so his so called evidence is invalid

[@martinwright4612]

Correct 👊🏻

[@samsung63]

It isn't invalid unfortunately, twits like this are allowed to become experts. The law needs to have a higher standard in qualifying people like Evans.

[@susansaxon4780]

@ exactly, he had nor has not any qualifications in neonatology , he’s not practiced for 15 yrs and l well know as a specialist nurse and have been nursing for over 43yrs that science, medicine and evidence based practice changes so fast. Neither was DE licensed by the GMC to practice while he so called indicated himself as an expert. The GMC says that an expert medical/surgical witness has to be licensed in the field…. Which he was definitely not. He had a narcissistic view of grandiose and was pushed himself forward and took the money. He should never have been called an expert wi

[@twogitsinacar4811]

He also did not have a licence to practice, having been retired. Doesn't that make his court testimony null and void. Doesn't it make him appearing as an expert witness an offence ?

[@samsung63]

@ It should do. However you will be surprised how easy it is, to become an expert witness, there are 1000’s of types ie; Photography (Prince Andrew!), Blood Splatter, Computers, Phones e.t.c This is one of the issues they are addressing in this trial, the qualification of these experts. Some of them are very expensive to hire, often people buy their innocence this way or others fall under the way side, as they can’t afford it.

[@framptow]

Carol “The medical evidence being wrong doesn’t change anything”. Sorry that’s just wrong If someone was on a murder charge and the corner couldn’t find cause of foul play it wouldn’t get even get passed onto the CPS

[@NikkiOwen]

7 consultants who majoritively were not experienced in emergency neonatal medicine at the time and were implicated by the actual evidence of the contemporaneous medical notes. A consultant attempting to do inflation breaths using a neopuff is ridiculous! Every midwife knows that!

[@scottaznavourian3720]

Stop using the famlies as a shield!

[@kevb6313]

Indeed, as though they wouldn’t want to know after trying to come to terms with their initial loss, they have then been put through the trauma of being told their babies were murdered only to find there is a prospect that in fact they were not but some of the deaths may have been preventable but for medical negligence by the finger pointers If there was one reason to carry this on it is for the families

[@nickdandel5314]

One of the journalists asked Dr Lee how many papers he has authored. His answer was over 400 peer reviewed papers. Then the journalist asked Dr Lee how many papers he thinks Dr Evans has authored. Dr Lee said he didn't know and the journalist intervened to say that according to pubmed Dr Evans has authored ZERO papers.

[@EmmaSouthby]

Really these commentators have no idea. This panel was independent and stated before looking at any material that they would publish their findings whatever they were i.e if they found for or against Letby. The doctor that talks about the baby whose tube was displaced and watched Letby standing looking and doing nothing told no one at the time of his concerns, made no notes about it - which is very strange considering that by the time of the trial he was convinced that Letby had deliberately displaced the tube and was watching the baby die - why wouldn't you tell anyone or record those thoughts anywhere?! He has decided this thing he is certain of in retrospect. This was actually commented on by the court of appeal and they felt his evidence was unsound due to this. By the way, a "displaced" tube does NOT mean that the tube is out, it is just displaced from where it needs to be. Which in a premature baby could be a matter of couple of millimetres. You cannot tell this by looking. Also, as a paediatric nurse i know that alarms go off on babies repeatedly during a shift. This is due to oxygen saturation machines finding it harder to get a good signal on a prem baby than on an older child or adult. If you started resuscitating a baby every time an alarm goes off you would be trying to resuscitate several babies a shift, several times a shift! This could actually cause great harm to a baby. Therefore it is normal practice to take a moment to observe a baby to decide if the alarm is a true reflection of a problem or not. Finally these 7 consultants all had a vested interest in blaming Letby as in the absence of a serial killer these babies were dying due to their incompetence and mismanagement.

[@happycatyoutube]

The panel arent even asking the right question.....Jeremy is saying "the question is, is the evidence enough to convict lucy?" No, the actual question, and the whole point of the press conference yesterday is......was there even a crime comitted in the first place, if all the babies have been proven to die from natural or mishandling?

[@icystrangers5482]

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

[@martinwright4612]

The evidence was totally flawed, this poor girl has had a crap life for at least eight years I hope she gets £50 million for a Netflix Blockbuster, she deserves to spend the last of her life in a comfortable position 👍🇬🇧

[@christopherhines2718]

yes but she has been robbed of her passion.Nursing.she will never work as a nurse again,her dreams and career is destroyed.And there are many biggots in a multi media jury ,who will never admit they were wrong.so the stigma will always be there.She has been wronged by the lies,as have the parents that have lost their babies.Can you imagine when she is released,going shopping down the high street.Not everybody will be friendly to her.Some will still believe she killed the babies.Because they are stupid!

[@blue1984]

The inaccuracies in this report/chat is shocking. Clearly haven't watched the full press conference. What an EMBARASSMENT.

[@ougal84]

Oh my word what absolute nonsense from those two. The very fact is that if specialists in the field cannot agree (and I believe those who spoke yesterday are the more qualified but that’s by the by) on what exactly happened to these poor children then we cannot be in the realm of beyond reasonable doubt. Not to mention the leaked police notes that showed 10 other suspicious events as Dr Evans put it that were miraculously no longer suspicious once he realised Letby wasn’t there. I feel for the parents, I really do. I can see how it might be easier to believe that a malevolent event took their child away rather than it was just a failing hospital that if it had been better run babies might have lived but that’s not Letby’s fault and reason must prevail.

[@Waihekeguy]

Carol is the worst where did you find such crazy

[@jhoneyb]

It's not one guy Carol, it was lots of similar guys.

[@Lorraine-p4r]

All men ? Only her ? Why?

[@janlinden7685]

There have always been concerns that this was an unsafe conviction. It appeatrred to be a cover up from the word go, initially I thought it was a Dr who was responsible ! Everyone listened to the Drs who just wanted to pass the buck and did so succuesfully towards a nurse that they had issues with. The ward was said to have plumbing / bacteria concerns and the training of staff was not up to standard. It appeared Lucy Letby was convicted on the basis that she was an easy target and everyone wanted something / someone to blame.

[@Bling_Crosby]

These 2 professional talking heads still dont get it. Dont even sound like they watched yesterdays press conference.

[@jerrymcsharry]

Carol u talk bloody rubbish

[@marie-francoiserama7052]

Great debate by professional researchers Doctors. Raise our hats to Dr. S.Lee. A man of honour and integrity. The truth will prevail. Royal College, so to speak, is Carnage, where UK doctors are concerned.

[@oliverwhawell]

I saw this coming - before she was found guilty the hospital was saying that they had been rotating staff once the babies started dying, and that babies continued to die after Lucy had been rotated off the ward! This fact vanished from the news when the verdict was given! Shocking.

[@vikingfrog7204]

Point is if theres a shred of doubt it needs reexamine and a retrial. We cant have situations where people go to prison for life terms on a maybe.

[@Bickle121]

How can Carol and others say the Canadian doctor can be trusted? THEY USED HIS RESEARCH. And he's saying they used his research in the wrong way......... I don't know if she is guilty or not but so many pieces of the evidence used are highly disputed by experts

[@vikingfrog7204]

Because he's now back tracking and carol doesn't like the outcome.

[@Bickle121]

@ he's not even back tracking, he was never approached they used his research and he says it was used in wrong way.

[@christopherhines2718]

Yes the wrong way, they interpreted it wrong! what part of that dont you understand.?As you see if you watched the entire thing.they had embolies seen as diliberatly injected air,when it was thrombosis.None of the deaths were murder failings by the consultants to give treatment on time.There is no evidence of murder or attempted murder in any of the cases.Therefore lucy is not guilty of murder or attempted murder. the medical expert dewi evans should never have been allowed to be a witness,for one he had not had a medical license for more than a decade.And he was a paediatrician,not a neo natologist. where as this panel are world renowned neo natal experts.All with one or more scientific papers published on the subject.dewi evans had none.because he was never a neo natologist.Dont forget the consultants are the ones that set out what the nurses must do.They follow the instructions of the consultant doctors.

[@twogitsinacar4811]

The prosecution also used Dr. Shoo Lee's research paper without his knowledge, that's why he has come over to set the record straight hopefully. The prosecution don't understand how to read a scientific peer reviewed paper.

[@Bickle121]

@@twogitsinacar4811 yeah that's what I'm saying, you can't really dismiss him now when they used his research as evidence to convict........

[@jackieemslie]

Oh Carol

[@pangamano]

You are but a fool.

[@Redparrot47]

Carole Malone should check facts

[@Priority76]

She has no interest in facts.

[@Swansong321]

She's spot on

[@Redparrot47]

I don’t think so she quoted dr jayram saw Letby by the incubator doing nothing, it was nurse Oakley that was standing there letby was in another station.

[@anthonyharris2634]

@@Redparrot47 Jayarams own words from the Thirwall Enqiry : “There has been a lot of speculation but I didn’t walk in and see anything," he said. Basically he felt uncomfortable seeing her in the room with the baby - but this was after accusations had been doing the rounds.

[@anthonyharris2634]

So Carol thinks the 'experts' who worked with her were in no way trying to protect their own interest in throwing her under the bus.

[@JamesR5]

Lucy is coming on to one of David Vines future shows, keep her seat warm & champagne cold Carol lol😂

[@twogitsinacar4811]

When Lucy is exonerated I hope she does come on the show say her bit and call out the people that destroyed her life

[@kevb6313]

I nearly made the same mistake and had to correct myself but it’s actually Jeremy 😂 (David passed away years ago)

[@patrickdocherty2456]

They should have investigated the Expert Witness before using him they is a lot out THER Dewi Evan's is a conman

[@kevb6313]

Look up the case of death of 10 year old Robbie Powell when he was senior consultant

[@watnamecaniuseforfs]

And uk column news ....on yt.

[@cupofteawithpoetry]

My goodness, Carole Malone hasn't done much research! It's now been proven Lucy Letby wasnt alone when Dr Jayaram walked in - and also a nurse testified to hearing the alarm going off. Also Jayaram said he caught her 'virtually' red handed - he either did or he didn't - there's no such thing as 'virtually' red handed!

[@andrewstokes4026]

That Stephen is a prize pillock, what has some bloke 30 years ago mixing with other prisoners got to do with Lucy Letby!

[@kevb6313]

One of those that that served in a prison and therefore thinks he is the authority on all things judicial- That eminent neonatal specialist who wrote 400 prestigious papers it talking out of his arse I worked on a wing for 10 years so I know - what a bell, clearly he didn’t work on the wing of Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Andrew Malchinson any of the convicted sub postmasters or any other inmates that had their wrongful convictions overturned (especially after initially being denied appeals )

[@nickdandel5314]

The panel is trying to gaslight us by asking what is so special about this young woman and dhe has so much sympathy. Have you heard of the postmaster scandal where more than 900 innocent people were convicted of crimes they never committed. Ever heard of Sally Clarke? Lucia de Berg?

[@jettser17UK]

Cos they had evidence supporting their innocence yet LL didn't! Big difference! 😏

[@nickdandel5314]

@@jettser17UK nobody needs to prove their innocence. It's the prosecution that needs to prove the defendant is guilty. The only reason LL is in prison is because assertions and speculations were sold to a gullible jury as facts by Dewi Evans.

[@jettser17UK]

@@nickdandel5314 Not necessarily, in court cases, there's always been a defence team against the prosecution! That's how it's always been unless the defendant wants to represent themselves in court! Letby case was unusual cos the evidence against her was clearcut! Sure her defence got neglected and maybe unfair. But it still doesn't mean she was innocent. And Letby tried to be smarter than the court and failed too. So that's guilt!

[@nickdandel5314]

@jettser17UK are you living in another dimension? There was no evidence of guilt and no evidence that someone from the unit murdered babies. The 'evidence' was nothing more than the unsubstantiated claims and assertions of Dewi Evans who sold them as facts to a gullible jury.

[@nickdandel5314]

@jettser17UK you have missed the press conference where Dr Shoo Lee dismantled all the unsubstantiated claims by the prosecution. In a few words, he and another 13 world renowned experts found no evidence of murder. They debunked the claims by Dewi Evans who has already been discredited as he isn't an expert in anything. Dr Shoo is a research scientist with over 400 research publication in his name. Dr Evans has NONE!

[@ianrichardson9950]

Those women are like Keir "holier than thou".

[@stephendavies6905]

They don’t have a clue. I]

[@fantastischfish]

What reason have you got to be suspicious of 14 professionals who would be committing professional suicide by standing up in front of their entire community of peers, and the world, and defending a 'baby murderer'? Who on earth would voluntarily (they were not paid by the defence team) put their heads above the parapet like this and put their names to the words "There were no murders" without good reason?

[@cupofteawithpoetry]

Bloomin' well said!

[@icystrangers5482]

It's not something about "this particular INDIVIDUAL". It's the SHODDY case and the mess that is being made of the judicial system that is attracting attention!

[@Raj-ul9my]

The last caller put the nail in the coffin 🎉

[@theevildrjelly4626]

Jeremy is so rude he cuts the caller off

[@lucius4556]

Especially when he doesn't agree, why even have a phone in show when there's not enough time to talk !

[@cassbrookes9331]

As a mum to a micro preemie born at the Countess and who went back there from Arrow Park I can categorically say she is innocent. It was a terrible experience and I was not happy with her care there at all.

[@truth-hurts3089]

I assume Carole had access to the original trial prosecution evidence?

[@patcresswell6736]

I refuse to call a panel with a woman and shouts and insists on her point of view is the only view! If she interrupted me I should be equally rude! Seven consultants did not see anything; if they had done the would asked what she was doing.

[@Colin-p7p]

It's not about 'think' What a stupid show! These are experts well above our thinking.

[@clarec7640]

All three must be immediately sacked. They are too thick and stupid to be employed. A bunch of failures.

[@icystrangers5482]

Speak for yourself, and pray that you never face a jury of folk who think as you do.

[@chrisjackson9204]

Silly people

[@Toomy2805]

She is innocent bigtime

[@m39403]

My god, I'm not sure what to say about Carol. I'm assuming this is all part of an attempt to make headline TV, right? Maybe get some panellists who actually no what they are talking about next time!

[@scottaznavourian3720]

Those 7 consulltanrs were covering their own butts

[@anthonyharris2634]

The callers and panel can't even get the basics right - her 2 appeals were denied before they got to court. She hasn't had an appeal!

[@julesm9498]

"Dr Shoo Lee doesn't know any details of the case" What a numpty.

[@twogitsinacar4811]

He doesn't need to, he is examining the medical side of it. This is a panel of the top 14 neonatalologists you are calling numpties and that you know better than they do. Hmmmmm I doubt that but still ....

[@julesm9498]

@@twogitsinacar4811 Hmmmmmm.....I was talking about Carole. See the quote marks?

[@neilsmith9799]

@julesm9498 I think people are seeing so many unbelievable comments from the other dark side that they do not notice things like quote marks.

[@jacquelinetilly8300]

Oh dear , this was embarrassing to watch These women have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about I had to stop watching when the blonde said “I’d much rather have the Drs. that worked alongside Lucy testify “ What an absolute joke - for those Drs. are the very ones that framed her This panel is shameful

[@Anarchers]

Venous blood passes through lung capillary beds before passing through the heart into the arterial circulation which supplies the capillaries of the skin. Air emboli from a vein would be trapped in the lung capillaries, while emboli from arterial blood would get caught in the capillaries of the skin. Letby was accused of causing venous emboli which would not cause a skin rash. The consultant Shoo Lee was clear and consistent in his analysis of how his scientific paper was misused. Your panel did not understand the issue which is not acceptable. .

[@twogitsinacar4811]

No the reason the deaths went down when Lucy was not on duty was because the unit was downgraded from level 2 to level 1. Get your facts right.

[@jettser17UK]

Pffff BS! You conspiracy guys are nuts!

[@christinaknight8241]

@@jettser17UK The fact that the unit was downgraded + the number of patients was reduced to 16 is highly significant in the quality of care being affected. Also, the unit was thoroughly cleaned, which is significant given the fact that sewage had been found in a sink during LL's time on the unit. Not conspiracy, facts.❤

[@stephenbrewer2541]

I will be putting a complaint against this for many reasons

[@DanCaute]

The level of debate is so low. Depressing.

[@TiptoeingTulip]

The irony of Carole M saying "people like Jackie" believe the headlines......

[@cupofteawithpoetry]

Yes!

[@christinaknight8241]

Exactly !!

[@turquoiseblue228]

'Plus he doesn't live in this country'. Say no more.

[@kevb6313]

Surprised she didn’t comment on his appearance

[@barryshimmon1129]

Carole Malone thinks she knows it all. She has a closed mind on this case, I find her offensive.

[@danieledmunds7678]

Evans misinterpreted lee’s paper which he used to convict her. Lee had now come out and said his paper has been used wrongly

[@truth-hurts3089]

Notice they only annotated the board and wrote "evil" on the board yet Jeremy only both (evil or innocent). What on earth is going on here?

[@TCheers-xy7yr]

Arguments about the case based on the parents' distress are flawed. If somebody's arguments are guided by such emotions, I wonder how rational they can be. It's like someone has to pay for their distress in losing fragile babies by suffering for the rest of their life in jail. And Carole seemed to be shouting that the 7 accusing consultants must be right and Dr. Shoo Lee should be doubted because he's from Canada. She has ignored the fact that only 2 consultants are the major players and the rest join them, and those 2 might have doubtful motives. She may be used to using such tactics because they would work among staff within the U.K. Fair or not, people have to accept. But applying this to a court case and a life sentence sends shivers down the spine. Much emphasis was made about Dr Lee saying that the hospital would be shut down were it in Canada, so much so that assisted dying in Canada was cited, which was totally irrelevant. The whole thing is not about comparing the two places. Dr. Lee made that remark only after being pressed repeatedly for an answer. Dr. Lee made it very clear in the press conference why he got involved. The ladies should have watched that.

[@cupofteawithpoetry]

Carole obviously doesn't know the 7 doctors on the unit include 'The Gang of Four' who were accused of bullying Lucy Letby and made to apologise to her shortly before the police were called in. It's even alleged one of them removed a column of doctors names from the staff rota before it was shown to the police. How could anyone be sure they'd tell the truth!

[@raz1980.]

If these babies were murdered, what about the other little ones that were lost, who's to blame for that.

[@pixiedragon83]

they werent murdered...the babies all died from either natural causes, or substandard medical care...

[@susanferrie7233]

Carol your trouble

[@mackenziefalls7748]

Jeremy - your guests are as thick as mince - you should be ashamed to have them on this show debating this topic.