Jerry Izenberg "OnThe Greatest, Muhammad Ali"

[@tonygoodwin2834]

Ali's Parkinson's Disease and punch drunk life was due to endless BODY punches not head shots. The hits to the vital organs and body have been shown to have a direct effect on the brain every bit as much as the head shots. The body is a kinetic chain and all related.

[@michaeldundee8300]

Maybe chemistry changes trying to protect the brain?

[@siredwardpellew5929]

I would disagree with you because, his brother had later in life and it is believed that it was brought about due to the large amount of pesticides used in his house when growing up

[@vegasgmanshow]

I appreciate your thoughts and thank you for viewing. I salute you sir.

[@rayesposito9642]

These Interviews are priceless as they are depicting history, he lived through it, he experienced it, so to me any comment I post about Ali v liston isn't going to make any difference to the final outcome!!

[@treetrout3987]

So? Different people have different levels of Education. Start there, on your voyage of discovery.

[@redbackshanto5828]

MUHAMMAD ALI is the GREATEST of all time No Matter what

[@michaeltrumph121]

Not even top 10 p4p

[@Jim_Harwood]

If you ever speak with Jerry again can you ask him who the person was that got Muhammad Ali to fight Trevor Berbick in the Bahamas in 1981. Jerry mentions Ali only took that fight as a favor for this un named person. And if you listen to the close of the Ali Berbick fight you can hear Berbick thanking Ali "for putting me over", meaning Ali helped make him a legitimate contender fighting for bigger purses.

[@charleswinokoor6023]

Excellent, and he’s right about Liston.

[@jackroper8829]

Grew up with all those fighters, and what jerry says is truth.

[@michaeldundee8300]

Yep

[@jonathanwilliams8309]

Ali vs Liston 2. When Ali lands the punch that puts Liston down, you see the shock waves go across Ali’s chest, from the impact. Legitimate, Beautifully timed punch. Simple as that.

[@aarondigby9859]

Sonny was so intent on getting Ali out of there, that when he went forward to hit Ali that Liston let his guard down completely and Ali could punch moving backwards and Liston momentarily caught all the impact. Wasn't no dive and the chaos that ensued with Sonny never being knocked flat and Ali's exuberance plus Walcott's surprise everything went bananas.

[@tonylaguna9060]

That was Excellent

[@Akiak7]

great interview

[@michaelamanek8908]

Priceless

[@dspreis]

Fantastic

[@ronaldparladorio2962]

Something rather astonishing about the second Ali Liston fight was that when Liston eventually got to his feet Ali threw 7 or 8 punches at him and they all missed

[@vantheman1234]

Wonderful explanation on Ali v Liston second fight. Never knew there had been a postponement of six months. Plus the knockdown etc. Brilliant.

[@michaeltrumph121]

Liston took Ali for granted and barely trained for the first fight. He also had a shoulder injury. He tried to postpone it but the Boxing Commission wouldn't allow it. Those 2 factors, combined with Ali's incredible reflexes, resulted in an Ali win. After this humiliating loss, Liston trained like never before. However, Ali got a hernia and the rematch had to be postponed. That took it's toll on Liston, who was a lot older than stated. He was in his early 40's at that time. So he never managed to get back in the same shape after 6 months. When they did actually fight, Liston chose to take the dive. There are many theories as to why: that the Black Muslims kidnapped his wife and kids, that the mob told him to do so, that he simply believed he couldn't beat Ali. IMO the actual reason is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that Liston did took a dive.

[@michaeldundee8300]

@@michaeltrumph121 True

[@tlig]

@@michaeltrumph121 Liston had no kids.

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@tlig Yes he did, he had several out of wedlock.

[@tlig]

@@michaeltrumph121 Really? I didn't know that.

[@bruceborges]

This is the perfect explanation of the Phantom Punch, no one did it better. This was a great interview. I cannot accept that Louis was a better boxer than Ali though.

[@truthhitman7473]

Muhammad Ali beat Sonny Liston fair and square. Jerry Izenberg sounds like a bit of a hater. He even said he thought Doug Jones beat Ali. Sounds like he was TOO privileged to be around the legendary Ali. Link- kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3ekZHd8e8aprc0

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@truthhitman7473 Jerry is a very balanced and objective man. Sonny was a lot older than stated. He barely trained for the first fight. He took a clear dive in the second. Ali was a powder puff puncher and didn't have the punching power to KO someone like Liston.

[@truthhitman7473]

@@michaeltrumph121 That's because you and Jerry are cut from the same cloth LOL

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@truthhitman7473 That is the truth, whether u like it or not. Jerry said he considered Ali as a great friend, he has no hate towards the man whatsoever. It's time for you and all the other brainwashed Ali fans to start looking at things objectively. Ali is the most media hyped boxer in history. If we also take into consideration impact on the sport when assessing greatness, than Ali wins hands down. He's miles in front of everyone else. If we only assess boxing skills, Ali is not even in the top 30 all time, let alone no.1.

[@truthhitman7473]

@@michaeltrumph121 Being a friend and being friendly are two different things. Jerry was no friend of Ali, which is why he talks the way he does.

[@MrCrystalcranium]

TOTALLY agree with Izenberg's assessment of the second Liston fight...it was a flash, off balance legitimate knockdown and when Sonny found himself on the canvas, he found a convenient opportunity to throw the fight. I disagree with him as to the reasons...I don't think it was because he was afraid of Ali or the Muslim's who supposedly were in the arena targeting Ali to avenge the murder of Malcom X...I think he was going to throw the fight for a mob payout at some point and when he found himself on the canvas in the first round he thought why not do it then and there. Unfortunately Walcott blew the count and gave Sonny half the night to get up so the controversy over the punch came out of Sonny doing a horrible impression of a knocked out fighter. The knockdown was legitimate...the knockout was not.

[@TheBatugan77]

I don't think so. I agree with everything you said about Liston being opportunistic and an awful actor. But i still don't think Ali tapped him hard enough to make him blink, let alone put him down.

[@MrCrystalcranium]

Decon...not Raid was the commercial.

[@tomphillips2214]

Very cool!

[@truthhitman7473]

Ali clearly beat Doug Jones. Jerry Izenberg got it twisted. Also no heavyweight 50 plus years later can move as fast as Ali did in his prime. Ali is the greatest heavyweight. And he would have beat Joe Louis.

[@KetchLambier]

The discussion about the phantom punch today is a joke. Watch it in slow motion. Perfect punch at the perfect angle with the opponent moving into the punch. A legit punch with Liston's head clearly being jolted back.

[@yinkaoyesanya8159]

Muhammad Ali was a greater boxer and fighter than Joe Louis. Secondly, no matter how fit Sonny Liston was for a rematch with Ali, Ali would have delivered another beating on Liston.

[@philfrank9226]

so lang man singt ist die Kirche nicht aus.

[@potlimit2002]

I had to stop the VDO when he said that. He lost a credibility with that statement.

[@Mikep487]

Absolutely stupid. Louis was by far Ali's superior. And Liston threw both fights. Liston was far too much man for Ali.

[@treetrout3987]

You got that right Yinka - No one could stop Ali - Imagine if he had not been banned - 3 1/2 years of the best fighter last Century. Lost....

[@treetrout3987]

@@philfrank9226 Schiez kopf. or whatever. you get it Phil franz...

[@DavyDredd14]

I think Muhammad Ali would have beaten Joe Louis 9 times out of 10.

[@klassickingz9094]

Ali beat louis everyday twice on sunday my guy.

[@treetrout3987]

O.K. I don't like him..." stuck in Ali's Shadow!!!?????" The only reason Frazier got the 3rd fight with Ali was that Ali and Frazier after business, were very close and Ferdie Pachencho, Ali's ring doctor said , " It was a goodbye gift to Frazier ." ( the 5 Million he received for the third fight). That's the truth.

[@tlig]

Ali wasn't close to Frazier at that time, in fact, Frazier detested him. They were never very close anyway but at one point they were friends.

[@treetrout3987]

@@tlig See Above.

[@jonathanwilliams8309]

Great though Joe Louis was. I don’t see Muhammad getting dropped by Galento or stopped by Schmelling. Ali = Greatest of all time

[@Akiak7]

Ali had losses too!!

[@firstlast1278]

"Knocking down George Foreman would have been like chopping down a California Redwood in those days" xD

[@jadezee6316]

joe louis was NOT a greater fighter than Ali

[@michaeltrumph121]

Do you really not know what greater means ?! It's all about achievements, not about who'd win prime vs prime.

[@russellcampbell9198]

Agreed. Ali did shape the second half of the 20th Century. Whether or not he was the greatest heavyweight or not is of much less interest to me.

[@heavymeddle28]

Jerry has a wife? Please tell me more 😊

[@gregoryphillips3969]

Joe Louis did not match up well with skilled boxers. He had a very dramatic fight with Billy Conn who was a talented boxer. Conn going late into the fight was looking good with a real chance to win. Then he made the fatal mistake of standing in front of Joe and going toe to toe. Louis proceeded to knock out Billy Conn. lf Billy Conn could come that close with his boxing skills what would Ali have done to Louis? Joe Louis did not match up well with an athletic heavyweight. Ali would have won easily.

[@aarondigby9859]

Ali would've beat Joe Louis' head like a drum.be for real.

[@treetrout3987]

I don't know who this Man is. Liston said ...LISTON SAID, " I was sick of all the politics around Ali. I was afraid of the muslims, not gonna beat Ali.. so I took the short ..." his words.

[@michaeldundee8300]

I think he took at least one dive

[@JahleelX-xx9wd]

What's the excuse for the first fight?

[@JahleelX-xx9wd]

If Ali fought him 10 times. He would beat him 10 times.

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@JahleelX-xx9wd Ali fought a version of Liston that was around 40 years old, that didn't prepare properly and had a shoulder injury. Prime vs prime, it's a bit different. Due to the styles they used and due to Ali's speed, he is still favorite, but the fights would pan out very differently.

[@truthhitman7473]

@@michaeltrumph121 Ali would have always been too quick for any version of Sonny Liston.

[@aprilaries1223]

I disagree with u sir that joe louis is the greatest..joe louis got into drugs after he retired from boxing..NOBODY IS NOBODY IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME..IT IS ONLY AND ONLY MUHAMMAD ALI..he was the complete package of a boxer in and out of the ring

[@michaeltrumph121]

Ali did not dominate for a decade like Louis. And what he did outside the ring is irrelevant.

[@truthhitman7473]

@@michaeltrumph121 Ali didn't dominate because he was robbed 4 years of his prime.

[@matthewellis8626]

First of all Liston was close to 50years old (In Reality) when he fought Ali. The account of the fight is very accurate , accept Sonny was scared of Ali ( He thought was Nuts ) and didn't go to a neutral corner. Sonny Testified to this under oath

[@michaeltrumph121]

Sonny was around 45 in the first Ali fight. And Jerry did admit that Liston was a lot older than stated. I agree with you though, Liston was not afraid of Ali at all, he thought Ali was nuts. Before their first fight, Liston was in a casino gambling and losing big sums. Ali came in clowning like always did back then. Liston slapped him silly and then shot a gun with blanks at him. Ali shit his pants and ran for his life.

[@kcash6359]

​@@michaeltrumph121 Liston was not 45 or 50 for either fight. I did research on it a while back. I tried to find it before I posted, but I don't know where I put it offhand. I used reports from court records, Census records, the DOB his mother stated (05/08/1932) and a report from research a writer did years ago (07/22/1930). The earliest (and craziest) year listed, for his birth year, is 1919. The first fight was February 25, 1964. Even if, by the biggest stretch, he was born in 1919, that would make him 45, if he was born in January or February of that year. If he were born after 02/25/1919, he would only be 44 on the night of the fight. So that would basically eliminate the 50 year old theory. His family was listed on the 1930 census, but Charles L. Liston was not on the census that year. The census usually gets delivered near the beginning of the year each decade. In 1930, if he was born after his family sent the census form back, probably sent January - March of 1930, he, of course, wouldn't be on it. He was included on the 1940 census and his age was listed as 10 years old. If his birth date fell in March -May, it's conceivable his mother may have listed his age as 10 because he had just turned 10, or was about to turn 10, within a short period of time of her returning the census form. If he was born in 1919, there is no way his mother would've listed him as 10. No one would be that far off and no one would mistake a 21 year old as only being 10. Especially his mother. Especially about someone the size of Liston. Liston was arrested in 1950. Liston gave his age as 20 (St Louis Dispatch listed him as 22). That would mean he considered his birth year as 1930. If he was born in 1919, or even 1924, that would make him between the ages of 25-32, depending what month he was born. While it's possible a 25 yr old could pass himself off as being only 20 y/o, why would Liston bother to do that? And if he were really 31 or 32 years old (b.1919), wouldn't someone assume he wasn't being truthful and called him on it? While there are few records (by today's standards) of his age at various times throughout his life, there are certainly enough to verify he was not 50, or even 45. It is logical to strongly assume he was between the age of 32 - 34, depending on the month he was born. I am guessing he was 33 on the night of the first fight with Ali and about to turn 34 within the next few months. Most of those who claimed he was in his 40s were sportswriters and they only claimed it after Liston was beaten by Clay/Ali. Almost all the writers had Liston as a huge favorite. Sportswriters have huge egos. They were made to eat their words. To save face, they needed an excuse for why they were so wrong. After the fight, Liston did look old because of the battering his face took from Ali (so did Joe Frazier after the Thriller in Manila). That's when the speculation of Liston being much older started to appear. In order for the great, all-knowing sportswriters to be that wrong, they just had to have been fooled. Fooled by the lying Liston about his age. It gave the writers an out for being so wrong. It's usually the losing fighter who reasons with phony excuses, except this time, the sportswriters needed an excuse. Liston being beaten so bad was a blow to their sensibility and credibility. Yet, there is no credible evidence of Liston being born before 1930.

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@kcash6359 First of all, Liston had no idea when he was born, and he made up his birthdate cause it suited his boxing career. Second of all, his mother was old and illiterate, as was Liston's entire family. She gave contradicting accounts. Third, Gallender did a lot of research for his book, so he might be on to something. Forth, paperwork was very sketchy back then. The guys who compiled the Census, all they did was to show up to a family's door, ask questions and take their word for it, without any documentation. Documentation wasn't even possible back then since Arkansas didn't have mandatory birth certificates back then. Sonny's sister said he was born the year right after the great war, 1919, which would make him 45 around the time of the first fight. This rough estimate of his birthdate has been confirmed by a lot of people close to Liston. I can't say exactly that he was born that year, but IMO he was probably in his early 40s in the first Ali fight, if not older. But even if he was around 34 for the first fight, that's still old for that era, given that they did not have the juices they have now. Ali beating Liston the first time it not that big of a deal, since Liston barely trained for that fight, and had a shoulder injury. Their second fight was a clear dive. The example you gave is not good, cause: - Williams was way past his best. One year before his fight with Ali, he was shot with a .357 magnum by a cop. The bullet hit Williams in the stomach and lodged in his right hip. Williams had to undergo four operations in the next seven months for colon damage and an injured right kidney. The right kidney had to be removed in June 1965. Doctors could not extract the bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis of some of the hip's muscles, he also lost over 10 feet (3 m) of his small intestine, and sustained nerve damage which affected his left leg above the knee and caused it to atrophy as a result. - Ali TKOd Williams after countless head punches that he threw while going forward, not backwards. In the Liston rematch, Ali threw a short punch while going backwards. Liston simply fell cause he was off balance. The way he fell also clearly shows he took a dive.

[@kcash6359]

@@michaeltrumph121 I saw a family website that states he was born in 1932. So, I guess there is no actual documents by Gallender in his book? As for the Williams fight, I only stated the punch he first knocked down Williams with was about the same one he hit Liston with in Maine. I know the whole history of Cleveland Williams. The reason I haven't read Gallender's book is because I didn't find him credible in his interviews when he touring around for it. I read some of your posts, it appears you really don't care for Ali. Do you even have him in your Top-50 heavyweights?

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@kcash6359 The family website is worthless. I repeat, Sonny did not have a birth certificate. He simply chose that birthdate cause it suited his career. As for Ali, I rate him top 2 (with Joe Louis) in terms of greatness, and around no.6-7 all time in terms of peak form.

[@ronwilsontringue6574]

ALI (CLAY) HAD ALL OF HIS FIGHTS FIXED

[@guiitarfreak_]

Who asked?

[@gregoryphillips3969]

Billy Conn was a pretty good boxer who through using great footwork and athleticism was beating Joe Louis for 12 rounds. Then in the 13th round he tried to go toe to toe with Louis and got knocked out. If Billy Conn could frustrate Louis for 12 rounds what would a young prime Ali would have to Joe Louis. It would have been ugly. With all apologies to the man being interviewed Joe Louis would have had no chance none against Ali.

[@michaeltrumph121]

You do not understand what he is talking about. This isn't about who would win, that does not matter. Greatness isn't about who is better, it's about one's achievements in his own era. It's only logical than in almost all sports, sportsmen evolve and are better then their predecessors, that does not make their predecessors less great.

[@gregoryphillips3969]

@@michaeltrumph121 Wait a minute. I do understand. And if sportsman evolve a man from the 30's and 40's Joe Louis although great wouldn't be able to stay with a next level phenomenal athlete like Ali from the 60's and 70's. Secondly, the Billy Conn fight for anyone who watches and understands boxing is a great example. Billy Conn was a pretty good boxer who had Joe Louis frustrated for 12 rounds. Then in the 13th he tried to go toe to toe with Louis and got knocked out. Both Louis and Conn admitted that Conn was winning the fight after the first 12 rounds. And many analysts have said if Billy Conn could outbox Louis for 12 rounds what would a prime ALI have done to Joe Louis.? It would not have been pretty. This point has been made many times. As for social impact and greatness outside of the ring Joe Louis was big but most would give Ali the nod there too. Ali was so brave in so many ways. As they say you won't see his like again.

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@gregoryphillips3969 Like I said, I agree Ali would probably out-box Louis and I also agree that Ali had a bigger impact outside the ring. But greatness means different things to different people. Jerry probably sees Louis's achievements of being champ for over a decade as being more important than Ali's.

[@gregoryphillips3969]

@@michaeltrumph121 Thanks for your feedback. My question would always be here, if Ali could outbox Louis and he also had a bigger impact outside the ring then on what other metric is Louis's greatness in comparison to Ali's measured? Joe Louis held the title for many years but historians often refer to his bum of the month club when it comes to opponents. Whereas Ali had to go through Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Quarry, Lyle, Shavers, Chuvalo, and Bonavena. It's fun to discuss boxing thanks for taking the time to respond. In my humble opinion Muhammad Ali and Jackie Robinson are the 2 most important sports figures of the 20th century. I realize that people can argue against this point all day.

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@gregoryphillips3969 Like I said, Jerry probably has a different view. I think that you have to look at how well someone did for his era, and from that perspective Louis's achievements might be more impressive for Jerry. In all, Louis made 25 defenses of his heavyweight title from 1937 to 1948, and was a world champion for 11 years and 10 months. Both are still records in the heavyweight division. He also KOd 23 opponents in 27 title fights, including five world champions. He has some nice names on his resume, like Baer, Schmelling, Walcott. My favorite is Tyson cause he was the most exciting to watch and I think he is the best ever when he was focused and trained properly. But that certainly does not make him the greatest. IMO the greatest boxer of all time is Sugar Ray Robinson.

[@philfrank9226]

With Liston he is wrong. He took a dive, cause of the black muslims. They also threatened Joe Frazier and other strong opponents.

[@midnighttrucker19]

frank philipp He hit Liston hard. Liston could've continued but choose not to. But he did get hit hard

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@midnighttrucker19 Are u that stupid ?!? That punch could barely crush a grape. And Ali was a powder puff puncher. He never KO'd anyone in the first round before or after Liston. Liston took a dive. Anyone who believes otherwise at this point in time needs to get his head examined.

[@rotichawal6697]

@@michaeltrumph121 Ali was the speediest heavyweight around maybe other than Patterson and hes throwing one of the hardest punches you can throw to Listons temple at a super speed while Liston is coming in towards it while being off balance .... if he didn't go down it would have been a miracle . "Are you that stupid ! ?!"

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@rotichawal6697 "one of the hardest punches un ca throw" That made me laugh so hard I can barely stand up. Ali was a powderpuff puncher and he threw that punch while going slightly backwards. That punch wasn't strong enough to crush a grape, let alone hurt someone like Liston.

[@rotichawal6697]

@@michaeltrumph121 "that made me laugh so hard i can barely stand up" hahah obviously you would say that youve never put on a set of gloves or threw a proper punch in your life you wouldn't know anything about boxing so how the fuck can you speak on this? Ali wasn't a hard puncher for a heavyweight, but speed kills and when you combine one of the hardest punches you can throw also the fact that Liston is completely off balance and got hit in the temple or jaw . Obviously it didn't hurt liston, kid knocked him down though. Stick to things you know about son

[@nobbytang]

You guys are falling for the Ali myth ....was he a great man ?...yeah sure ..giving up so much for principle is admirable but lm pretty sure he was being manipulated by Malcolm X and Elijah Mohammed but no way was he the greatest ever heavyweight ...no way ...Ali was never the same fighter after Zaire and Manila and in that time frame Joe Frazier and Ken Norton had beaten him ...all the 3 Frazier and Norton fights were way too close to of declared Ali dominant .....Earnie shavers beat him ...Jimmy young beat him and even evangelista a crap European champ went the distance with him ...Leon slinks was shite and yet had two close fights with him and Ali wasn't that old ...particularly when seeing how big George performed when nearly 50 ..or evander Holyfield or Larry Holmes ....speaking of Larry Holmes he used to be employed in 1973 and 74 as a sparring partner at deer lake but he used to out jab Ali right from the start ...Ali would never of beaten Larry Holmes left jab ..never !

[@black_beautiful]

Ali wasn't in his prime in those fights honestly

[@Jaffar540]

Ali and his charisma are not myths. He is a wonderful piece of colourful history. His accomplishments as a boxer are not about how many boxers he has knocked out but how many people's heart he has impacted.

[@michaeldundee8300]

I try to focus on his charismatic boxing and social skills