Jesus in Babylonia: Eastern Gnosticism between Judaism and Christianity

Speaker: Matthew Morgenstern, Department of Hebrew Culture Studies, TAU
"Jesus and Judaism in the First Centuries CE",
Tel Aviv University,
6.1.15

[@nsrzz]

Okay so instead of guessing why don't you just ask us the Mandaeans about our religion?

[@tbishop4961]

Share! There are many interested people But if it's true that mandaeans don't accept converts, it doesn't make sense to bother

[@nsrzz]

@@tbishop4961 there is no such a thing in Mandaean books talking about not accepting converts, in fact there are many stories about how people convert into Mandaeanism such as in Ginza Raba a girl called Maryay the daughter of a Babylonian cruel king who used to sneak out the palace to get baptized in the river with other Mandaeans. However ur right it doesn't make sense when Mandaeans officially don't accept converts. The story goes back to around 1300 years ago when a Muslim leader called Khalid bin Waleed took over Mesopotamia "modern Iraq" he proceeded in asking for jezia (Muslim word for land tax) from everyone. Whoever cant pay has to convert to Islam or die. Mandaeans are known in living undercover between Jewish and Christian people. Therefore he also asked Mandaeans to not accept the return of the Mandaeans that converted to Islam. Lots of us didn't listen to his rules and many got killed in Shoshter and Haran valley. It was then we were forced to sign an agreement to follow his command.

[@nsrzz]

Lots of us now talk about bringing back our religion and accept converts but the situation in middle east with the US invasion and what followed after with ISS have given us another catastrophe and our numbers now less then 3000 people in Iraq.

[@tbishop4961]

@@nsrzz thanks for the reply✌

[@gnosis_5]

Wich are you origin? Chaldeans maybe?

[@jeremylittlefield]

This is amazing.

[@elchasai]

they are definitely older than the 4th/5th centuries. Buckley has shown that the colophon dates extend at least to the 3rd century if not older. The nature of the writings themselves clearly shows older origins, Nazirutha would seem to arrive from heterodox classical judaism and Helllenic and Babylonian syncretism.

[@shahinkia8448]

I'm mandaian from Iran 🇮🇷

[@gnosis_5]

Wish is your origin?

[@hermanhale9258]

The Mandaians should give their own lectures on their religion.

[@naomidoner9803]

I'm an open mind from the USA eager to hear all perspectives.... I hope the leaders of our countries don't make war 😢

[@L-XVIII]

Root of christianity

[@divinedevilldivinedevill3577]

Plz give the subtitiles

[@abdulahoop6643]

Thank you professor, we Mandaeans and Jews used to live together in Iraq before

[@gnosis_5]

And the caldéans?

[@abdulahoop6643]

@@gnosis_5 Of course, with Christians too

[@gnosis_5]

@@abdulahoop6643 the caldeans are the ancestors of mandaeans ?

[@abdulahoop6643]

@@gnosis_5 No, because we Mandaeans before the Jews.

[@gnosis_5]

@@abdulahoop6643 I’m interested here come mandeans from ? Origin ?

[@TechWizard28]

Naruto was a blonde hair blue eyed character cloaked in flames... ;)

[@jtvreviews588]

Did he really pronounce it gah-nostic? smh

[@nadashamikh2462]

The explination about Hebilziwa is not correct

[@cresenciohernandez8310]

Paz Inverencial.

[@aliceneely2647]

I tried listening but when I heard him pronounce the G in Gnostic I edited.

[@beyondtimeandspace105]

Just to add a bit of context, gnostics is a word that derives from the Greek word γνωσις which means knowledge. γ is the equivalent letter of g and indeed γνωσις is being pronounces as is in in a similar fashion as you do pronounce g in gnosis. Gnostics means those who posses knowledge, in modern Greek it is being written as γνωστες.

[@seizuresalad91]

@@beyondtimeandspace105 insightful

[@AWikkedMoon]

"The Gnostic Truth, X-Spell the Spell put on You". kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGbIl2iCltGJqpo&ab_channel=AWikkedMoon

[@nicolepauline7595]

​@@beyondtimeandspace105point?

[@naomidoner9803]

I ❤ ALL the theologians in the comments....Each of you should come together and make a video correcting this one...

[@revolta269]

"I'm not a historian of religions" gives a speech about history of religions. Anyway, messiest speech i've ever heard so far, he surely doesn't know how to keep the audience interested.

[@watermelonlalala]

He kept me interested.

[@tudorpearce]

Awful car crash of a lecture.

[@AWikkedMoon]

"The Gnostic Truth, X-Spell the Spell put on You". kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGbIl2iCltGJqpo&ab_channel=AWikkedMoon

[@Evanrholloway]

For what it’s worth at 12:21 - “Shekhinah” means a dwelling or settling. Typically used in reference to the divine or spirits. For example, the “Shekhinah” of YHWH rested in the Temple Mount, or for Christians “wherever there are two or three gathered” - all of these would be similar concepts.

[@hermanhale9258]

Christians don't have a Shekhinah or a dwelling or setting for a shekhinah.

[@rodionromanovich449]

Mani

[@adamyitzhak9907]

t

[@juststtuff]

"I'm not a historian of religions" gives a bs speech about history of religions. the video is trying to look down Mandeans More than half of what you said is wrong the wording on the other hand was full of hate and disrespect between the lines Be honest with history coz You trying to make a religious manscript as a funny comic book This is not an honest act I recommend that you learn some ethics when you teach you should study psychology and sociology. And last but not least Aramaic Mandean Is the language of southern mesopotamia but it's not the only language that Mandian have spoken through the history and. by the way babylon fall was 539 bc And Christianity was written by the Politicians of the west After 800 years to control the world with a religion because it's the only way you can control people through all times and nowadays

[@bruceburns332]

Did he just say "Guh-nostic". He's well read on Gnosticism it seems, but he's never heard the word pronounced. @3:00 and I'm ready to move on. 5182 views, 87 likes, 12 dislikes. It would be great if there was a third category like "boring" or "slow" or something - I don't dislike the topic, but @3:00 you should have already HOOKED the audience - basic rules of public speaking. Perhaps I'll download the auto-subs if there are any and skim through the material that way. Good luck next time.

[@bruceburns332]

@Kynan Krugel Thanks for the share. I appreciate your sarcasm, though that isn't my approach to learning. Wisdom is a really high bar, even knowledge is a high bar considering those that have not acquired knowledge about any particular or general topic are only left with "beliefs" about said topic. When you know, you don't have to believe, but until you know, then you either accept you don't know and continue to explore or you pretend to know by buying into or self-creating a belief.

[@bruceburns332]

@grace 73 Interesting perspective. Assigning a guess to the "attitude preferences" of Holy God seems very anthropomorphic. Any choice with your (our) mundane mind to try to please a/the Divine Mind seem absurd. I don't think we can virtue signal our way to heaven. There is a great deal of canonical and non-canonical evidence that attitude really didn't matter. King Solomon would be a fine example of that.

[@bruceburns332]

@Kynan Krugel Lolipop Radio. For me it is more about quality and relevance of signal. There are probably medals for humans who choose to pour over every book ever written about the general and specific topics regarding this content. At some point once anyone who studies this material and groks the enormity of the available and potentially available sources, deciding to filter out as much noise as possible helps laser in on that which is not yet learned, that which is not yet discovered. Learning is means to an end, but not in and of itself meaningful. Much of what most of us has learned is either erroneous or misinformation. Awakening to Spirit isn't defined/limited by being Pet of the Book of the Month Club. If you discover that your learning is "fun", it is possible that there is heart in the tradition/signal you are receiving and you gnosis this in your bones, through your heart. Discounting the wholeness and fullness of the your higher awareness, empathy, intuition and other gifts that help the poorly programmed mind awaken to anything, let alone the Indivisible/Invisible Spirit might be an error in perception. Thanks for your reply.

[@AWikkedMoon]

"The Gnostic Truth, X-Spell the Spell put on You". kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGbIl2iCltGJqpo&ab_channel=AWikkedMoon

[@vhawk1951kl]

It is a little queer to sound the G, but no pronunciation is written in the sky; it occurs to me that he supposes others not to be familiar with how gnosticism is spelt and pronounced by different groupings which may include some that pronounce research as reee search, but then everything degenerates according to law and pure English is no exception. Perhaps all men have their shibboleths by which to detect their own and not their own, and not just one of the tribes or classes of the English with all their what-they-regard as solecisms and secret ahibboleths, which may include sounding the G in gnosticism or zabaglione. Not all of what may appear to be rules are prescriptive rather than descriptive; Joe Bloggs may see in his mind Nosticism if he is not familiar with the G being silent in gnosticism and zabalione, and ....... Gnu - see also gnewspaper, boom boom

[@elchasai]

skinta, shekinah, dwelling

[@adam_explosion]

Mandaean is first religion way before jewish, lol

[@zwaic2352]

Ikr

[@josyjos6179]

Truth becouse they scripts goes way back to Adams teachings

[@jeremylittlefield]

five stars

[@Tiget2000]

So now mandeans are thread to Jews to put them down. Beside hate and criticism there is nothing here

[@TorahisLifeandLight]

Gnosticism is similar to the Trinity Doctrine from Christianity with a SMALL difference: 1) Trinity Doctrine is considered secret knowledge commonly being the Trinity Doctrine as a "Mystery" nobody knows who God really is and who Jesus really is or who the Holy Spirit really ...2) Church's conclusion is: The 3 entities are called "persons" representing the material sense and is called 3 in 1 gods substance or the immaterial sense. 3) Trinitarians believe that the father doesn't exist as a spiritual spirit being but it was materialized in the flesh and still exists in heavens using two bodies, one body in Jesus incarnate and the body in spiritual body in heavens but only being one spirit being. So for Trinitarians believe that the father doesn't exist in his own existence as separate spirit being than his Son Jesus who was sent to earth by the father. The Bible doesn't say God came to earth , the Bible says that Jesus was sent by his God. Trinitarians believe that the father is the same as Jesus who came as God in the flesh and the Holy Spirit considered 3 gods in One substance as co-equal deities. GNOSTICS DID NOT BELIEVE IN THE PRE EXISTENCE OF JESUS AS A SPIRIT BEING. NO WONDER WHY THE TRINITY DOCTRINE FITS IN. The trinity doctrine contradicts the Bible because it is a Gnostic belief philosophical system. GNOSTICS followed the Neo-platonic philosophy in their beliefs...the trinity doctrine was formulated based on the Neo-platonic philosophy incorporated in their doctrine. No wonder "their christian pastors" needless to day "their members" can't understand it or explain it. It was created based on neo-platonic philosophical ideas.

[@ejfunny]

Nokoomkkkkoko

[@albusai]

Who talked to Moses at the burning bush? In the name of who did Jacob blessed Joseph’s sons ? Genesis 48

[@AWikkedMoon]

"The Gnostic Truth, X-Spell the Spell put on You". kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGbIl2iCltGJqpo&ab_channel=AWikkedMoon

[@Iknowknow112]

Which "gnostics" ? You write as if there were some gnostic dogma which is absurd. Very few, very very few, Christians often called gnostics ever called themselves such. So to say "gnostics believed x" is just sloppy and lazy thinking.

[@robbienl8176]

But what than means: Before Abraham was I AM. Who have seen Me have seen the Father.

[@patrickjohnson7592]

Judaism, is a False concept, created, by False Jews, of Europe.The original, expression, in the language, of the black Jews of the Bible, is YakaOdakah, His mother said , I will praise the Lord, when she was giving birth to him.This Patriarch, was a black man. The people, who descended from him, were black people. The Real, Messiah, was a black person, who originated, in Heaven. He had a dual nature.He changed, from physical, to Spirit, and went back to Heaven.

[@fortunatomartino9797]

You worship a black god