Jim & Beverly Harper's Proto 48 model railroad - Southern Pacific and Sacramento Northern Railroad

[@tommachut7167]

I remember Jim back in the 70's when he owned Harper's Hobbies in San Bernardino California. Great guy.

[@johnmalley4355]

It’s always good to see Jim and his railroad, his hobby shop (High Sierra models) was my absolute favorite place to go in Reno some 20 years ago, before he moved to the St George area. I still have one of his business cards somewhere lol. I remember seeing his railroad when he lived in Reno and how awestruck I was. I see the railroads expansion and continued high degree of detail through your show and am grateful you are there documenting, and entertaining us, as well as teaching us things on subject matter. Thank you Dale and Karen, keep up the great shows. Merry Christmas to you, and thank you Jim Harper, for inspiring me, and being a good all around man. Hoping your railroad will be preserved...

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. And thanks! Christmas has us running about a bit! Hum… just as it always does.. anyway what a grand day we had at Jim’s house! What a magnificent layout!!

[@daviemaclean61]

Next week - Dale and Karen's Proto48 Railroad! Absolutely beautiful railroad - it should be in a museum so everyone can still see it. Pretty sure I wouldn't have the skill or patience but I'm sure glad someone else did!

[@ToyManTelevision]

The details…. Oh my. The detailed track and trains. Pure art.

[@frankhellman6879]

I like the idea of selling the house & layout together. A lot less work. If $500k is a real number, that area is less expensive than I would have guessed. Very nice tour.

[@ToyManTelevision]

I think it’s close. Not sure. It’s what he said. But he may have been clowning around

[@ronalddwyer6592]

St.George look like a nice area to retire to. Fantastic proto 48 scale layout. Can't imagine how much time it took to build this layout to real scale size. Just all the tie plate would take alot of time and how many he needed. Thanks for sharing. Be safe and see you on Tuesday.👍🚂🚂🚂🚂🚂

[@bernardc2553]

Lordy an't that great Heck of a Railroad in 48!!

[@trainknut]

I love the fact that such a big, dare I say massive model railroad has been made by such a comparatively little man. You'd expect the guy who made all this to look like a real life giant, but there he is... Little old Jim. Such a _Gorgeous_ model, I love every part of this. That Colfax representation is one of the best I've seen, I love Colfax, and that right there, is definitely Colfax.

[@Mike-tg7dj]

Can't take anything with us when we leave. You my friend have a legacy. I guess as long as you produce or whatever that is the legacy you leave. Everyone does different things for different reasons. I hope you finish your railroad though and remember keep it fun that is something you love doing. When you stop loving your hobby then, it's time to look for a new hobby. I don't think I could ever stop being a railfan. Thank you for your work/channel. Lord willing until next time.

[@ToyManTelevision]

This is a problem that so many people are having. Steve has opted to completely dismantle his railroad and turn it into dioramas so that the dioramas can survive. Other people have tried to set up some sort of trust or something to keep the Railroad alive. So far I know of only one that has succeeded. Sadly most of these railroads end up dismantled and even destroyed.

[@jwrailve3615]

St George is absolutely gorgeous, so is cedar city. I lived in Ogden for a couple of years when I was in middle school and miss it very much it’s going on 12 years since I’ve last even visited

[@kenshores9900]

Notice no sound system, but not necessary. You get the classic clickety clack sound that you would hear. Merry Christmas to you and Karyn.

[@LearnwithJanice]

Hello from Kansas 🇺🇸

[@SleeTheSloth]

What an amazing mode railroad!

[@robertd.shannon9007]

Detail is just awesome! Hope it gets sold to a good buyer who'll see that it's done right.

[@garypearsall1589]

Have a Merry Christmas 🎄!!

[@ToyManTelevision]

You too!

[@nickmyers9322]

Great video of a great layout. Don’t want to nitpick, but I do have a comment on your history of 0 gauge (at 05:48) because there is always a lot of confusion about scale vs. gauge. The gauges came first, way back in the 19th Century. Of those still in common use are 0 (not actually “O” - 32mm), 1 (45mm - the most common gauge used in outdoor railways in North America) and 3 (2.5” or 63.5mm). HO (“Half 0”) came later. Nobody was thinking about exact scale back then. Locomotives were either live steam or clockwork (wind up) and models were at best just relatively proportionate. Most of the layouts at this time were garden railways, and few people had the money or land to engage in the hobby. It wasn’t until well into the 20th Century that electric motors, transformers, etc became small enough to fit in anything as small as a 1/4” scale loco. More folk had disposable income, leisure time and houses. The (relatively) small size of 1/4” scale meant you could build a layout indoors, where the delicate electronics were protected. People started to worry more about exact scale in their modeling. The NMRA was established in 1935 and created what we now refer to as the “standards” for the common commercial scales. But they continued to use the already established gauges. 1/4” (1/48) scale became the most common on 0 gauge track to represent standard gauge railways.I don’t know why they didn’t choose 1/45 scale, which would make 0 gauge a correct 4’ 8.5”. Maybe 1/4” to the foot just seemed simpler and more logical? Maybe others know a better reason? So it was the scale, not the gauge, that was determined to be “close enough” for most modelers until the Proto 48 folks came along! Thanks for your great video series!

[@scottfw7169]

Yay! Electric traction! That 6 dome wine company car at 4:26 is interesting.

[@larstenpas7462]

I worked for Jim in Riverside California for several years where he had his first hobby shop. I was supposed to be the model airplane guy but I found the HO trains to be fascinating. So much so I went on to Live Steam eventually winding up building several 15" gauge locos for the Live Oak Canyon Railroad which is still in operation today. Please say hello to Jim for me if you would please. I'm sure he remembers Lars Thanks

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. I think he’s reading these.

[@larstenpas7462]

@@ToyManTelevision I hope he does read these. Jim is a master model maker.

[@jamesdandy1777]

I love the bigger scale layouts. Great channel

[@usmcsam4821]

Nice layout. Can only imagine the work involved to keep this cleaned and running properly. Thanks for the video.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. Yup. No idea but these guys are out there several days a week.

[@gilbertosanchez8138]

muchas gracias saludos desde RanchoSanchez California

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hello!! Where is that?

[@lescobrandon3047]

A great video with two of my favorite things; youngsters gaining interest in model railroading and eye level viewing.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Morning! And thanks again

[@unclemarksdiyauto]

This looks like a nice size scale. Amazing detail. Beautiful! Thanks for taking us along for the visit guys!

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks again!

[@luvindemtrains]

What a great model railroad and video. It just gives me goosebumps. Only if I had the space.

[@dtj9923]

I have so much respect for the proto 48 crowd. They're as crazy as fine scale narrow gaugers and we're all better off for it! Beautiful layout.

[@ToyManTelevision]

The On3 people tend to be similar fanatics. But still… Proto 48 really takes the cake. Even Proto 87 is not quite as fanatical

[@dtj9923]

@@ToyManTelevision Now when Proto 48 folks incorporate finescale On3 that's a whole different level of OCD model building! However, let's not forget my beloved and higly respected Sn3 weirdos. PBL has effectively made that modeling tribe a finescale full contact sport!

[@stevemellin5806]

Very cool railroad Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to you and yours

[@ToyManTelevision]

Merry Christmas back to you!

[@Brian_rock_railfan]

Awesome video 🚂👍🚄

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks again

[@robertweldon7909]

This is the kind of model that deserves to be preserved in some sort of museum. Maybe in Sacramento, maybe at :"Sun Coast museum" in Florida, or an addition to the model train museum in Greely, Colorado. Yes, cost is prohibitive, but some sort of "Go Fund Me" set up could be done, to raise funding. Jim and Beverly aren't getting younger. It would be really nice for them to see their efforts preserved for posterity. Just a thought, great video, as always. ;-)

[@ToyManTelevision]

It’s sad that most railroads end up being dismantled, very few of the really great ones are ever preserved. And that’s just incredibly sad! Really hoping that someway can be found to keep this one going forever.

[@trainknut]

La Mesa would probably love this if they could somehow find the space.

[@tomas5376]

Looking forward to Christmas show! Have lots of memories of the SP. When I was 8 I started selling newspapers for 10 cents at the Burlingame station. Lots of customers from Hillsborough gave me a dollar and said keep the change! Needless to say I was thrilled!🚂🚂🚂

[@1Nanerz]

I think this is my favorite model railroad in existence. Thanks for showing it again.

[@robertcooney4139]

Merry Christmas 🎅 and Happy New Year 🎅 😊

[@jonheller2307]

Great coverage of a great modeler.

[@alexpiper9475]

thank you for a great year of videos.merry christmass to all . jims proto 48 is world class.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks

[@kenshores9900]

The buildings are awesome. Liked the music editing and mixing you did.

[@ToyManTelevision]

It’s a really great layout Really. Thanks

[@robertemmons2260]

Another awesome episode! These layouts are amazing! Some of the details are spectacular. Thanks for that little bit of rail history of California. Thanks again for another great video!

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi and as always THANKS!!!

[@Wilett614]

That Overhead Wire you mentioned ..... is called CATENARY ! I am from Philly Pa Area .We have it ALL over the place Out Here !! lol Electric Trolleys STILL Roam Around in lots of places in Philly !!

[@rogerstrate5727]

Jim's Proto 48 is definitely beautiful. Merry Christmas to you and Karen Dale - I love you guys and your videos.

[@iannarita9816]

Thx again.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks back

[@tomklock568]

Fantastic!

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. Thanks again!!

[@Santafefrank]

Thanks for the video

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks

[@N-Scale]

What a beautiful layout !!!!

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yup!

[@robertrussell2166]

Amazing railroad. I look forward to your weekly videos.

[@kenshores9900]

Dale: Another great adventure. No home in California costs $250M. If it does it is a bargain. No I can’t afford. It. Besides I am thinking along the same lines. Very interesting and very detailed. Thanks for the trip.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi Ken. I think a home in New York sold for 100,000,000. Anything over 300,000 all sort of sounds the same to me. How much? Oh, too much.

[@kenshores9900]

@@ToyManTelevision Speaking of homes. People leaving California are taking their over inflated homes that they sold in California ands buying homes in Texas. Homes are in short supply and costs are going up. Lie the song says; “ The rich get richer and the poor have children!”

[@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951]

Super video!!!

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi! And thanks again

[@caseyvillemodelrailroad3877]

Thats a great looking layout...

[@prt2v]

Would love to have the Sacramento Northern interchange but it gave me many ideas

[@ToyManTelevision]

I love electric railroads.

[@TonyLasagna]

Wow. Speechless

[@ToyManTelevision]

Amazing right?

[@TonyLasagna]

@@ToyManTelevision i say you two buy it - Garagemal Mark II Or jr! haha. you guys also have some beautiful pieces i’d love to see running.

[@charlesmcclure5994]

That is such an amazing layout I really hope that he find someone who appreciates all his hard work he's put in over the years in making this layout it definitely needs to go to a good home 👍👍

[@ToyManTelevision]

Let’s hope

[@edwardgh57]

Wow, the track work looks smooth as butter, not like SP prototype that I remember. Lol

[@krissfemmpaws1029]

That was an outstanding layout! You can see a lot of care and love went into it. Oh hey, the Oregon Coast Scenic Railway in Garibaldi is getting some new rolling stock from a gentleman's collection in Oregon. I'm guessing it will keep their shop busy for a while restoring them.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Cool!!!!! Love that place. Hum. Need to get back

[@shadenphoenix]

a museum, especially a train museum, that has anything on the strange gauge history and would like something to show off to talk about it. even the Smithsonian with all their trains might want it, and could certainly afford to buy and transport it. might even get his biography up on the creation of this specific model and all the work he put into it. how cool would that be? :)

[@thavvolf9157]

Wow 0:27 look at all that uplift…

[@ToyManTelevision]

Red mountain. And in the center, hell hole canyon. I’ve hiked it. Aptly named. A huge hole carved by waterfalls from 900 feet above

[@caseyvillemodelrailroad3877]

On my layout iv started to make modual s out of the garden railroad so it is now very movable , least the kids can move or sell it if need be .

[@scottfw7169]

At 6:25, "This exactness is making me tired, I gotta lie down a bit." ;D

[@ToyManTelevision]

Flawless

[@struck2soon]

Lovely layout. Shame none of those gorgeous steam locos were in action!

[@troyb1733]

Dale or Karen do you know who painted the backdrop on Mr.Harpers Railroad?? It is so perfect it is its own work of art.

[@jamesharper4797]

I'll admit that I painted the backdrops, twice, once when I started the layout in 1986-2002 and in Santa Clara 2005 to present after moving to Utah. I don't claim to be an artist but they are fairly easy to do. Jim

[@Texas_and_Pacific]

You could possibly turn it into a museum and gather other pieces to display along side the layout

[@ToyManTelevision]

I think the only way to keep it in its current location would be if somebody buys the house and just adopts it. If a club formed it would take perhaps 30 members in order to rase that much money? Perhaps? But it’s not really a 30 person space. It’s a home railroad and in a perfect world it will stay that.

[@316railfan]

I think the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento would make a good home for it. Tons of SP stuff over there, it would be fitting.

[@ToyManTelevision]

If they would. But they get many offers. And other than some dioramas made from famous layouts upstairs.. nothing

[@scottfw7169]

Hmm, after 9:25 "everything" follows prototype practice? Do the palm fronds have the correct parasites? Oh, I see, you mean everything about the track. ;)

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hum.. scale bugs… I think we will pass

[@sammisworkshops3762]

Maybe a deal to set it up in a Museum like Harry Brunk's Narrow Gauge HO layout was done? California State RR Museum? I know they already have a couple of layouts

[@jimschneider5193]

It's definitely a gorgeous layout. I model in 2 rail O Scale and there's no way I'd go P48 unless I won a lottery. Those couple millimeters aren't bothering me.

[@ToyManTelevision]

More than the gauge I think is the wheel profile. It’s so amazing to see a train actually running with accurately scaled wheel profiles. By all means no mean feat!

[@jimschneider5193]

@@ToyManTelevision it is incredible. Lot of guys tried talking me into it initially but I had acquired 3 N&W Y and A class engines I didn't want to convert. But it is definitely cool looking. Love your channel.

[@jimkammerer8028]

LOVE YOUR VIDEO'S VERY COOL AND INTEREST AS WELL I THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS WITH YOUR SUBSCRIBERS I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH JIM KAMMERER OF PHILADELPHIA PA NORFOLK SOUTHERN RULES MY RAILS

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi again Jim! Thanks again for watching. Always more coming. See ya.

[@leifjenkinson4039]

Grew up with Chicago's Museum of Science & Industry, 75 years ago. We left when I was 11. Their train layout could keep my on the balcony above it for an hour, as a 5-6 year old. I returned about 40 years later and it was essentially gone. Was it HO? I think the Harper's layout could keep me enthralled for 2 hours, right now. Got my own toy train at about 5 - American Flyer. Was it because it was my first that I preferred it to Lionel? AF seemed more realistic: no 3rd rail, turns not way too tight. I admit, if I got back into model trains, it would be HO. But if I had the talent & the room (hey, Alaska does not work well for outdoor RRs and out house is small), I see Proto 48 is the way to go! This layout may be even more "real" than the old MOS&I. As a side note. I had no idea, until a couple of years ago, that AF had been bought by Lionel and "revived". Nor any idea how unrealistic the new rolling stock is, and how sparse the choice - S or O gauge. Between the military (8 years) and Merchant Marine (over 30 years), never settled down long enough to have a layout. Well, now I'm forcibly retired since 09 - and still find more to do than there are hours in the day. Somebody by this layout! Keep going, Toy Man TV!

[@ToyManTelevision]

That old O scale in Chicago was amazing but the “new” HO is great too. Proto is HARD. Almost nothing available. And now less. But other scales are good too. On3. On30. Ho. So Much good stuff

[@garyacker7388]

I've never even heard of this gage and he's done an excellent job. The details are simply excellent 👌 👏. Sadly this is a part of our lives, what to do with our "stuff ".

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yup… some just don’t care. But for many it’s a matter of legacy.

[@garyacker7388]

@@ToyManTelevision oh definitely!!

[@tomkibbe835]

I understand the gauges, etc., but what is their scale of things such as buildings and people?

[@ToyManTelevision]

It’s all 1:48. No compression. No cheats.

[@thomasharroun8068]

A salute to Minton Cronkhite, who designed the original Chicago's Magnificent Museum of Science and Industry Santa Fe layout in proto 48, which opened in 1941 and operated until 2002 when the museum built the current layout in HO scale

[@ToyManTelevision]

That was a GREAT LAYOUT. The HO is great too.

[@timothyboles6457]

Gorgeous railroad! Having alot of O scale 22-rail and traction equipment I really appreciated this layout. I hope it doesn't get broken up. Some people are saying it should go to a museum..which I personally have mixed feelings about. Unless it is going to a group that can properly maintain and operate the entire layout. It's going to be wasted. Also moving a large layout like this isn't easy or good for the layout

[@ToyManTelevision]

The best thing would be for it to stay right here and have someone take it over I will love it the same way that Jim has. I guess that’s quite a longshot. But that would be the best I think.

[@timothyboles6457]

@@ToyManTelevision i thoroughly agree 100%! i wish I could do it, I like both of those railroads, and have run on the restored section of the Sacramento Northern. and have run most of the existing SN electric equipment at Rio Vista.

[@TristanMorrow]

How do you even put a price on something like that? (...also, is seller financing available?!) Seeing this so makes me want to get into P:48 :-)

[@Wilett614]

Where is this Railroad currently located ? What Are the DIMENSIONS of the railroad ? What Does the Locomotives and Freight cars consist of ? Quantities etc? how is this Railroad operated ? and is it DCC ? Just Curious : )) Thanks

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. It’s in St George Utah. More specifically Santa Clara- Ivins. It’s in a two car garage but an extra large garage. I’d guess the total footprint to be about 25’x20’? Rough guess. Yes DCC. Runs better than a Swiss watch.

[@jacobramsey7624]

Compared to lionel or o gage, is the provo 48 bigger or smaller?

[@flywelder]

Since viewing this video which I enjoyed and I can sympathize with. But I've been giving it much thought. As it relates to concerns I have for my own railroad. What I'm considering of trying to do for my own I want to pass on to others it also is here from others what they think of this idea. I'm aware of some of the obstacles that are wood present themselves but I'm sure there's others that I haven't thought of I'd like to know about this. My idea is for myself for bath and even Dale anyone actually this is start a model train club right at your location or in your town. Opening it up to the public and memberships got paid membership even lifetime memberships, beginning a group of follow enthusiasts and if a location isn't available that would suit having or converting into a club say like even a house the rooms could be converted to expand the layout perhaps. There could be a kitchen already there to use by staff while working at her on the railroad. Perhaps there's ground outside that can be used to have guard railroad or a 7-in scale ride on railroad and parking or nearby parking in a park and have a shuttle bring people up to the trains and back to their cars.? If that's not available perhaps there would be once membership started to grow people would know of places locally that could be utilized for a club to set up their model train display. Perhaps someone would know of some company that would give a 50 or 100 year lease on a building to a club because they were maybe perhaps enthusiastic about the idea of a train club in their town. I'm thinking it could have events that correlated with train swap meets and other train related festivities or town festivities holiday celebrations, and charge $1 or two admission to come see the train clubs train layout ask questions right on the outdoor 7-in train etc perhaps have local food trucks at the event or the and that could help entice people to come? I heard of a model train club in Hagerstown Maryland did I understand has a similar arrangements.

[@flywelder]

So the Hagerstown Maryland group leases a building on the local railroads railroad yard and members build and expand layout inside the building! And visits are open to the public. So I was just thinking if it would work out this would be a great possibility for our railroad to have a legacy and even perhaps children or grandchildren would carry on with the membership and care and his grandparents we could pay for their membership ahead of time! So I realize my proposal has many ends that would have to have answers and tied up but I think it has potential and perhaps could be served as the basis to actually LeapFrog to something that would work that only for Beverly and Dale but for anybody in the country. I've actually started a Facebook group recently, to see if there's any interest in my area, for such a club. Hoping for a great turnout!

[@ToyManTelevision]

We’ve been around to a lot of clubs. The big fear is that you can do a lot of work and spend a lot of money setting up a club, and then lose the building! In fact that almost always happens. You might be able to keep it for 10 years but eventually somebody’s gonna have some other plan for it and then you’re out. It’s surprisingly there are several clubs that we have visited the own their own building. The Pasadena model railroad club got kicked out of their building in Pasadena many many years ago. They purchased an industrial building and started setting up the railroad in there perhaps 30 years ago? Anyways we never have to worry about losing that unless it falls down in an earthquake or something. And with hundreds of members it’s actually quite affordable.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. Same size. 1:48 scale. It’s the wheels and track gauge that’s different. The goal with Proto is set the scale and then stick to it 100%. No cheats.

[@jacobramsey7624]

@@ToyManTelevision thanks for the explanation!!! Hope you guys have a happy new year!! Question, did you guys get to see my comment on the T1? I am curious as to what your thoughts are on the subject.

[@centralpacificrailroad2910]

It has southern pacific narrow gauge number 9

[@dfhepner]

Like real railroads there should be the friends of the Harper’s proto 48 that could raise money and buy it and run it long term.

[@shedbythetracks]

My railroad isn't huge and certainly not on par with this layout. I'm not worried about it continuing, what I think about is, will it become a burden to my kids when I'm gone. (no, I'm not in a hurry to go!) I have decided to dis mantle it and maybe just have a test track to play around with. As we age, we tend to bury ourselves.

[@ToyManTelevision]

It’s always a challenge, worrying about what will happen to your stuff. Best thing to do is talk to your family about it. But coming back to some sort of decision is always difficult.

[@jimkammerer8028]

NEEDS TO BE PRESERVED TO SOME TYPE OF TRANSPORTATION THATS THE TICKET FOR SURE.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. Thanks.

[@everettthepetractionguy4222]

Proto:48!!! That's the scale and gauge I prefer over the "regular" 'O' scale. But, proto:48 is NOT very popular. You have to be a skilled modeler because you have to build mostly everything yourself - just like your friend Steve does. I wish ptoto:48, the "perfect" 'O' scale, was the popular scale/gauge where you can easily find RTR engines, rolling stock and all sorts of accessories instead of the regular 'O' scale. Another not-so-popular scale I really like is S scale. S scale needs to be promoted more often. I never understood why S scale takes a backseat to the more popular HO scale. Don't me wrong, I love HO scale. I just wish S scale was right up there (with HO) selling lots of RTR engines, rolling stock and accessories. S scale stuff are NOT readily available. And neither is proto:48! Those are two scales I'd love to see get more attention from the model railroading community and market. Hey, I totally enjoyed your video on proto:48 trains and layouts - its was GREAT. This is the most attention I've ever seen given to proto:48. And you did a wonderful job of bringing this almost obscured scale to our attention. That's what proto:48 needs...more publicity! Thanks for doing this show...I love every minute of it! 🤗

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks! There are so few Proto 48 railroads out there. This is the only one that we have ever seen, although we are aware of many more. Yet I would be willing to bet that the number of model railroads as a percentage is well below 1/100 of 1%. It’s just not something that you see very often if ever! But my gosh it’s magnificent!

[@jrowe9301]

1001 likes

[@asbmp]

Do you know if he would take checks from the bank of Heaven? I want the railroad. I'll send you my shipping label with return address so you can mail it to me "FREE MATTER FOR THE BLIND"

[@ToyManTelevision]

Does Ups ship to heaven?

[@asbmp]

@@ToyManTelevision Free matter for the blind is through the USPS. not ups. unfortunately you can't ship stuff to heaven. however you'll need to make sure that your banks will accept checks from the bank of heaven otherwise you'll need to wait until you get to heaven to cash it

[@joshuatoro8977]

move to the Taj mahal