Jim Cornette Looks At Houston Wrestling Payoffs

From Episode 387 of the Jim Cornette Experience
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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[@john_blues]

"We made so much money, we paid the SCAFFOLD $500 bucks". That's hilarious!

[@Raze_DJ2]

As a younger wrestling fan at 17 years old, this is absolutely fascinating information. This is one of the main reasons why I listen to the podcast, I hope a lot of other younger fans feel the same way.

[@phildodson6141]

Good for you young man! Im 46 ....been a fan since early 1985. I wrestled myself from 97-2012 various places on indies and international. Wrestling history is sacred....but too many nerd kids have ruined it. Paul boedch was rumored to be gino Hernandez's dad but he was a stepdad or similar really.boesch was regarded as the top 3 US promoter pay off guys. Vince Sr and don Owen in Portland. Giant baba in japan was really good and honest with payoffs! Keep learning .....older wrestling was an art form . it's been abused and misused by today's comedy nerds!

[@phildodson6141]

Watch heroes of world class doc on KZbin ....onr of the best about von erichs in Texas . you'll leran more on Texas wrestling .

[@Chozin1]

Jim has his biases , but like he says , he’s more entertaining then the wrestling business. What’s funny is that’s yes we know it’s fake and social media expose the business more then ever, it’s lies though. You can still get legit heat these days if play the character in and outside the business and people can still have great matches and it not be a spot fest.

[@phildodson6141]

@@Chozin1 the smart ass nerd fans are tough to crack....so cynical. Different fans than I was growing up. I wrestled for 15 years from 97- 2012. I worked them .....the fans didn't work or dictate me. I was old school heel that got heat....no fancy acrobatic spots.

[@rudyrusso711]

Keep it up Kid!! Mr. Cornette will never steer you wrong!

[@jamesmcv]

Corny is 100 percent correct. Paul Boesch was an institution in the Houston area. Even if you didn't watch wrestling, you knew who he was and I can't think of any negative publicity around him. I've got fond memories of my Dad taking me & my brothers to the Sam Houston Colosseum. Most memorable was a certain scaffold match featuring a young heel manager who we all hated :)

[@yoholmes273]

George Bush went to Paul Boesch's funeral. Boesch was Mr. Houston.

[@dingdong5212]

@@yoholmes273 thats an awesome tid bit of wrestling info. Thanks for sharing that

[@jamesteegardner2273]

​@@yoholmes273Was that W. Bush? Or H.W. Bush (the dad)? Or both?

[@yoholmes273]

@James Teegardner H.W. Bush ..Mr. CIA.

[@HyperFlame64V1]

I wonder if that same manager broke his Ankle that night.....

[@MilMaska]

"It aint Mil Mascaras. It aint El Santo. It aint even Mr. Wrestling 2 ... Its Excalibur" - Jim Cornette

[@getschwifty9531]

😂

[@WSK9002]

Ah, I understand why Bret Hart always enjoyed Houston because Paul Boesch introduced his parents to each other. I don't think either needed much convincing, Stu and Helen Hart were very attractive people in their twenties.

[@jacksonnami]

I’m from Houston n my dad used to go to the Houston Colosseum, I usually hate when people say this but DAMN was I born in the wrong generation, we were a wrestling Mecca from the sounds of it

[@marka.graffakasnakebitenat3736]

We sure were.

[@RodneyBailey247]

Great job guys! This was incredible! The history is appreciated. The biggest Jim Cornette fan since circa 1984.

[@andrewbowyer5043]

Don't tell Roided Up Jeremy Ballbag and Rodney Este that

[@greyjedi6430]

That's a very bold statement lol

[@Mister_Phafanapolis]

I have never watched Houston wrestling and I might never BUT I am _all in_ on Corny talking for ninety minutes about this promotion.

[@TheGreatestPlayerInTheWorld]

Took the words out of my mouth exactly what I was going to say!

[@maitreyas.4902]

I had Dallas wrestling. And Memphis at my Granny's house. Never saw Houston.

[@PeteUnsigned]

@@maitreyas.4902 all I had was "American Wrestling Stars" VHS's (pirate videos of RANDOM wrestling matches from the states) at the local video rental shop.

[@danielwilson9724]

@@PeteUnsigned that's awesome!! Gotta love bootlegs sometimes for reasons like this..lol

[@LTKK]

Same. Way before my time, but very interesting!

[@pooddescrewch8718]

Valentine was a heel in much the same way the Road Warriors were heels .He never cheated nor retreated , he just kicked babyface ass .

[@DenkyManner]

The referee replying to the leapfrog question was funny.

[@billyjbreedlove3672]

I love when y’all talk about Houston wrestling. It takes me back as a boy with my family.

[@Dagger-Deep]

I've visited many great wrestling cities, but Houston is on a different level.

[@marka.graffakasnakebitenat3736]

Houston has some homegrown talents: Stevie Ray, Booker T, The Undertaker, Nidia, Dr. Tom Prichard, and Brother Love (Bruce Prichard)

[@ManuelLopez-nu7sb]

My dad and brothers watched Houston Wrestling on Channel 39, now the WB 39 every Saturday night or Sunday morning. Mr. Boesch spoke at our high school in the late 80s and everyone listened and gave him a standing ovation. Will never be a time like growing up in the 80s as a kid to teenager.

[@TheMagnificentMongoSlade]

Paul Boesch once famously called VK McMahon "the man who killed the handshake" meaning unless you had a literal contract, Vince didn't take people at their word and convinced others to break theirs. #threecountcommentaries

[@maxfrost5016]

In other words McMahon can't be trusted.

[@sh3tpostsgamertime204]

Smart man.

[@mikelopez2585]

I don't if its VKM's fault exactly, but on a older podcast, Jim Cornette has talked about VKM being too gullible during a time period and trusting too many guys who ended up burning him on those handshake deals. The last case was Kevin Nash, shaking hands with VKM and telling him he wasn't gonna leave...

[@TheMagnificentMongoSlade]

@@mikelopez2585 Yes. Lex Luger did the same thing.

[@Connor-ki8zv]

In 84 though, Vince broke his father's word, by competing in other territories, and killing them off. Even when he tried to get Minnesota (AWA), Vince sat down with Verne and Greg Gange and when whatever deal they made with Vince, they drove him to the airport and Vince said these exact words "I don't negotiate".

[@targetthyself]

In the 70s and 80s air-travel was still in the hangover era of the premium travel age. It was the yuppies who saw that there was a mass-market of middle class people who wanted to fly. This was when they added the 3rd seat, fired the chefs and replaced the pretty blondes with minimum wage slaves and successfully froze pilot salaries and created "surge" pricing models. Why air travel is misery incarnate, but cheaper.

[@michaelinhouston9086]

For all the people complaining about the length of this video, I wish it was longer and I am going to watch it a second time for another stroll down memory lane.

[@tigerbug69]

Definitely warrants a second listen.👍

[@David.M._1979]

Imagine if a wrestler asked for the gate of Raw or Smackdown. Vince and Bruce would probably release him the next day.

[@jdubz360]

One of the best heels in the business is ole Corny!! You were a huge part of my childhood and listening to all these stories takes me back to when wrestling was great!! Wish you could run another promotion Jim.. It would be the best in business

[@larryjones4096]

It's sweet to hear the inner workings of what was essentially my second home growing here in houston,God bless Mr.Boesch and 1919 Caroline/TV39.

[@ccie12933]

I'm here to find out how Jim worked Mighty Mouse in and I was not disappointed

[@paulk6399]

i like to study the thumbnail for a few seconds before watching and guess how the odd things in there get worked into the show

[@kevingomez4747]

"The History of Professional Wrestling" as told by Jim Cornette illustrated by Travis Heckel Please make it happen. I need that book. Please. 🙏🏼

[@shanefrederick7731]

I'd buy it

[@ronmichaels9206]

That's a great idea!

[@FlashFirePrime]

I second this idea. Someone else on another video said they should make a book showing off all the previous Travis Heckel art with transcripts of what was said in the clip the art was in. I think that is also a great idea

[@kevingomez4747]

@@FlashFirePrime For sure. That would be awesome too. I'd get it.

[@danielwilson9724]

Hell yes!! Great idea

[@michaelmarino7391]

I grew up in Northeast, watching the WWF in the 80's as well as WCCW & UWF (Bill Watts) on channel U68. As time goes on & listen to Cornette's stories, I yearn for the territories & variety of styles wrestling.

[@MrSpeed-lt8gr]

I totally agree. My first promotion was Gentlemen Ed Francis’s 50th State Big Time wrestling growing up in Hawaii. And I remember getting to sometimes see the WWWF on old WOR tv. And it was such a treat to see wrestlers I had never seen before. And then of course getting to watch Georgia Championship Wrestling on WTBS.

[@maxxdahl6062]

Back then you could always find a style of wrestling that you liked. Now it's only Vince, and generally a bunch of vince imitators.

[@Chozin1]

@@MrSpeed-lt8gr wish I was alive for it , born in 91 and people surprised when I tell them macho king is my favorite wrestler. Some say the wars were good for wrestling some say it was bad, I’m happy that at least they still worked during this time . Now it’s like what killed nwa in the 80s. A bunch of people who don’t know shit about the business are running the business .

[@maxxdahl6062]

@@Chozin1 " Now it’s like what killed nwa in the 80s. A bunch of people who don’t know shit about the business are running the business." That wasn't what killed the NWA, it was the same thing that killed the AWA, Vinces shitty "business" tactics and no one quite knowing how to fight them.

[@glace5620]

..is there ANYTHING that Jim Cornette does NOT know about professional wrestling?...he lives it.

[@Connor-ki8zv]

The only territories Jim never got a chance to work in were Florida, Japan, Puerto Rico, or Detroit. I'll betcha Jim would have loved to get somewhat of a chance to work in those territories, but I believe by the time Jim got into the business, Detroit, Kansas City and LA were pretty much on their asses and on their way out.

[@marka.graffakasnakebitenat3736]

Don Serrano's son, Hector, lives in the Pasadena area. My family knows him personally.

[@victorl6121]

As a kid I remember going to these shows at the Coliseum and watch on Channel 39! Jim use to call Paul : Big Ear Paul Boesch during shoots! The best times 🤣😂🤣

[@sugartbube]

These are the great episodes the inside story

[@Souleman561]

"There was a all night gas station up.." lol what a dig

[@lalomontoyajr.9282]

I'm from Houston Texas and Paul Boesch was cool! I remember watching wrestling here in Houston on channel 39. Channel 39 carried Houston wrestling then WWF Superstars and if I'm correct Fox carried WCW Pro. Houston is a big wrestling city. Still is. But not me, I stopped watching in 2008 when that computer became General Manager.

[@marka.graffakasnakebitenat3736]

The WWF was introduced to Houston on The new Fox 26 on Saturday mornings.

[@marka.graffakasnakebitenat3736]

WCW was featured on KTXH CHANNEL 20

[@johnfranklin7960]

I concur with James, my Uncle in Friendswood, who was a respected grain commodities broker and a mild fan of wrestling respected Paul Bosch and spoke of him with great admiration. I grew up on Mid-South rasslin and this piece brings me back to my youth.

[@bulldogbrower6732]

If you received this from the Texas Athletic Commission, you should probably be able to get the same documents from New York State and Pennsylvania because they also required wrestling to be sanctioned and supervised. My assumption is that these are public documents because these are official state entities.

[@Crusader7077]

Hearing Cornette complain about his payoff at the "Last Stampede" in Houston that drew $100,000 makes Michael Hayes sound justified about his poor payoff working with JYD in the Louisiana Superdome back in 1980.

[@gothard5]

This was absolutely fascinating. I enjoyed this segment very much.

[@JuliusC1973]

Yes, I wish they would do this for other Wrestling Territories.

[@gammasmash1924]

It's fun to hear Corny run down the modern product, but I love when he does these historical deep dives. My favorite thing though, is when he fantasy books an angle on the fly . He sells the hell out of it, and makes me wish I could see it play out irl.

[@robwallace5490]

Just curious, aside from bringing in champions from the NWA and the AWA did Houston ever have their own regional champion's? Forgive me And asking but I always wondered

[@jumboincredible]

Vince's enabler Bruce now has most of Paul Boesch Houston Wrestling documents, books and ECT

[@z2ei]

The Houston Wrestling episode is the only one of Bruce's podcast worth listening to. There's a minimum of BS because Vince isn't really involved, and Conrad doesn't desperately try and put himself over like he usually does.

[@jumboincredible]

@@z2ei STR died a long time ago IMO. As you know Bruce is a liar

[@markabboud8564]

@@z2ei I hate Conrad.

[@RLSmith-uo9zs]

Bruce owe you money?

[@manuelper]

@@z2ei A lot of the episodes before Bruce went back to the Fed were damn good. The Ted Dibiase episode comes to mind as well. Now, it totally sucks and Brucie is just mailing it in.

[@josephnewberry9290]

I have definitely seen footage from Southwest of Greg Valentine being managed by his dad around 1980. Johnny didn't look very mobile as I recall. I think he was having to use a cane to stand.

[@prestonfields6695]

Houston wrestling was legendary I remember those Bosh commercials with the diamond earring lol

[@Marcus-gd7hw]

I grew up in the 70's .. Friday nights in the Sam Houston Colosseum was the Best

[@skillet7805]

Reed never went "baby face" like that it's just the 2 Hacksaws Reed and Duggan would team up and were undefeated as a tag team Ps thats the story we were told

[@marka.graffakasnakebitenat3736]

They did face off against one another a few times.

[@Collinzmusic]

Half an hour in and hearing the detail of the payoffs is super interesting. Thought Wrestlers were struggling then too. Maybe jobbers or underneath talent would have found it harder to survive in such climates but yeah this is hitting the nail on head so far.

[@cgphone9911]

I only knew who Paul boesch because my brother and uncle always talked about how so many WWF talent in late 80s used to be on Paul boesch wrestling.

[@cgphone9911]

What's even more crazy, I didn't know who Paul boesch was, but I had been to the colleseum several times to see some of the shows when I was a toddler.

[@richardconwayy259]

Cornette deserves a few statues in his local town as a tribute of his greatness. Such as historian , we truly appreciate you guys.

[@john_blues]

Mike, the Biggun. 🤣What a name!

[@tomr3422]

Good ole Percy Cornette an unsung hero of wrestling.

[@woady_one]

🤘HOUSTON TEXAS REPRESENT🤘

[@pooddescrewch8718]

I saw Jose Lothario have a great match with Black Gordman . Two weeks later I saw them have the exact same match .

[@ajjjay9583]

I wonder what a gas station sandwich back then tasted like.

[@Fausto_4841]

Probably better than what we get now.

[@thundertyrant]

They weren't mass produced at a factory like they are now in the plastic casings. Most of the gas station sandwiches were made on site by some of the relatives that worked at the place and wrapped with Saran wrap or wrapped in paper and priced with a marks a lot on top of it. Now if it's here in New Orleans it's going to be a badass poboy our gas stations are famous for them.

[@ajjjay9583]

@@thundertyrant I remember that scene in National lampoons vacation when Chevy chase says” I’m so hungry I could eat a gas station sandwich”

[@michaelangel36]

Would love to hear more classic wrestling and less about the current product

[@joshuaDstarks]

Mil was about a bill.

[@kevinkelly1529]

Allie Recks had a very good debut on Ring of Honor. Check it out.

[@Davila713281]

Houston Wrestling created Wrestling legends!

[@pooddescrewch8718]

Troy Graham was in shape when he and Pork Chop were Bruise Brothers . It was the only time I have ever seen him in shape .

[@DMS-pq8]

Even tho I grew up in Texas I never saw or heard much about Houston wrestling, Even the magazines like Pro Wrestling Illustrated didn't give it much coverage

[@madbrowniac7871]

If it was ever mentioned it was the backdrop for an Aptermag story about how Junkyard Dog missed his chance to dethrone Nick Bockwinkel for The AWA Championship. And considering the insanely stacked Roster of Houston Pro Wrestling at any given time this comes off as an egregious omission. Theirs was the TV Show studied very closely by a young man named Steve Williams. Who of course went on to become Stone Cold Steve Austin...😏🎤🤼‍♂️B.W.

[@madbrowniac7871]

And there was even an ironic undertone to that as seemingly every two weeks Bill Apter himself would interview Paul Boesch at PWI Headquarters during a JCP Broadcast.🤔😏🎤🤼‍♂️B.W.

[@Brando-Lee3725]

I LOVE this stuff right here ! This is the second time listening after the first time it aired !

[@kidray7818]

I luv hearing about the different gates from the past. It was genius for Cornette to keep some of this information💯

[@Souleman561]

It was also for tax purposes too as a way to verify payment between promoter and contractor to the government as the independent contractor have a lot of write offs to make if they want to max their after tax income

[@Connor-ki8zv]

@1:00:25 Brian is right about how there's not many scaffold matches anymore. Once you've seen one scaffold match, you've seen them all.

[@MasGood]

This one was a goody. Wish we can get a bit more on Mil Mascaras and his time with some of the top guys here in America

[@pooddescrewch8718]

In 1978 Jose Lothario would draw houses in Misdsouth . By 1983 he was past it .

[@A_real_Ha_So]

1:00:20 Well New Jack "tried" to kill Grimes if that counts

[@tf692]

More of this, less AEW/WWE/NXT etc.

[@greyjedi6430]

Correct

[@fraggledrunkjr7751]

Lmao September 9 1984 i was 2!!! Lol

[@Mechanicoid]

Me and my old man would watch Houston wrestling back when I was a kid. Those were some good memories and one of the few overlaps in interest that me and my dad had. Paul Boesch was a classic and those I.W. Marks commercials are burned in my memory.

[@zombiesixx6226]

I hope the next video they do is about how much the wrestlers use to spend on food on the road.

[@jcc3333]

🤣🤣🤣

[@813South]

Back when wrestling was great. Now they get major money to do dives that almost kill them and does nothing for us true wrestling fans

[@Xurts]

Listened on Spotify, and this was fascinating!

[@tartsonawire]

Man, I wish I could've gone to see Houston wrestling in person. My Dad was a big fan and always talked about it.

[@UnlimitedProduction1]

Same, my dad used to love to tell me about him seeing Andre the Giant when I guess he passed through Houston

[@michaelconnors7668]

Did Boesch have to get a permit for each wrestling show at the Sam Houston Coliseum? Did he have a permit to run exhibitions or competitions?

[@tomr3422]

I believe that he got a permit once a year to run a show weekly (or Bi-weekly) at SHC. It would have been like a "parade type permit" in the 70's. They were more interested in collecting Tax's then fees at the time.

[@michaelconnors7668]

@@tomr3422 Thank you. Most interesting. Looks like the shows were run as events rather than as athletic meets or competitions.

[@kevinkelly1529]

@@tomr3422 *than

[@kevinkelly1529]

@@michaelconnors7668 *than

[@Andysnyc]

Plus i'm sure any events like that would also have to be sanctioned by the Texas State Athletic Commission

[@themeanhornet1070]

Purple Haze Mark Lewin????

[@chrischar9428]

Yah

[@AngelSanchez-zp7uj]

also known as the maniac Mark Lewin

[@seanabbins5481]

By comparison, I have been listening to a lot of Ron Fuller's podcasts where he talks about his attendance at his shows. In 1979, Ron Fuller ran four cities weekly---- Knoxville, Mobile, Montgomery and Doltham. He would have been very disappointed if any of those cities had an attendance below 3000 fans, and moderately disappointed with anything below 3500 with the possible exception of Doltham. I find it a little surprising that during the same year of 1979, a big market like Houston was also drawing below 3000 fans. Houston was probably bigger than Knoxville, Montgomery and Mobile combined. For them to be drawing that low must have been a really bad month for them.

[@madbrowniac7871]

As I am now finding out Houston pretty much had everyone. Back to The 1920s.B.W.

[@thundertyrant]

This is so great!! I've been listening to this nightly for months!! I grew on Mid South during it's hey day 1980-84 getting to see matches both in New Orleans and in Chalmette. To hear these pays outs and the stories as y'all pull the curtain back on how Paul brought in JYD and the rest of mid south to Houston is great!!

[@sh3tpostsgamertime204]

52:38 great blues song

[@paintingjanet1429]

Jim and Brian are the best

[@OmegaRedFan]

Drive Thru Boys

[@pooddescrewch8718]

Scaffold matches are desperation matches . Same as barbed wire matches that The Fantastics and The Sheepherders had in UWF . You may as well drink nitro and light a match . Its great but only once .

[@pooddescrewch8718]

I loved Barry Darsow too but he did not draw one ass in those seats .

[@jhayhow1]

Great segment .

[@mattlacroix7597]

Lol, great thumbnail.

[@brettfoster9675]

Jim makes everything interesting to listen to

[@Connor-zl8gi]

I think I remember seeing a scaffold match on bonus feature of an ECW DVD I think, and from what I saw, it was Tommy Dreamer and "Prime Time" Brian Lee and let me tell ya, that scaffold wasn't structured well AT ALL. I mean that thing was rocking back and forth. As the saying goes, once you've seen one scaffold match or one hair vs hair, mask vs hair, mask vs mask, you've seen all of them.

[@anonymousbo0318]

Managers making "main event" money is absurd 😂

[@rockydrago4181]

Donny OWENS WAS A GREAT 2ND STORY GUY-- BILLY WATTS COULD BYPASS ANY ELECTRONIC DEVICE STUART HART WAS A GREAT WHEELMAN

[@pooddescrewch8718]

I was in Louisiana so I did not want to see Midsouth wrestling in Houston nor on TBS ....I was getting less diversity . I liked when Boesch used Texas talent from San Antonio and Dallas with AWA and wWA talent coming in for shots

[@pooddescrewch8718]

I had a 40 ft antenna rig just to get the Channel 39 signal .

[@jakewheeler1581]

I'm from Virginia and have seen a lil Houston wrestling,I'd like to know more about when Boesh decided to have their own world champion and Adrian Adonis won the tournament.

[@ronnironn2986]

Love this

[@FozzQuaker]

If you like this, you should look for the Kayfabe Commentaries Back to the Territories Documentary where Corny is chats to Bruce Prichard about Houston Wrestling

[@moopert86]

Amazing concept... wrestlers get paid based on the amount of money paid at the gate. Make people have an interest financially in drawing a big house.

[@tjswan4628]

Every Saturday night and Sunday morning... Me and my grandma watching wrestling

[@cowboy9275]

The Territory Days were the best hands down

[@malicant123]

The figures don't really translate into modern money even with the inflation calculator. 12k in the 70s is about 40k now, but that 12k would buy a house back then.

[@timtrozzo2990]

I spent many a Friday night at the Sam Houston Coliseum watching Houston Wrestling.

[@Collinzmusic]

And then they went back up right. Good to hear the bookers were pretty fair with the payoffs.

[@markabboud8564]

I love episodes like this. Listening to info like this gives you a better understanding of the business

[@c0uchsl0uch]

Houston rasslin' ran by Paul Boesch had many top names come thru. Freebirds, Jake Roberts, Kamala, Ric Flair, JYD, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Andre the Giant, Bruiser Brody list goes on & on

[@kevinkelly1529]

*run Not ran

[@marka.graffakasnakebitenat3736]

Well, let's keep the list going. Sean Michaels, Hacksaw Butch Reed, Ted Dibase, Skandor Akabar, The Missing Link, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Dick Slater, Dick Murdock, Dr. Death Steve Williams, The Rock and Roll Express, Jim Cornette

[@darylbeard6696]

Von Erichs.

[@madbrowniac7871]

Dusty Rhodes, Ernie Ladd, Tommy Rich, Nick Bockwinkel, Tully Blanchard, Marty Lunde who of course became Arn Anderson, Jerry Lawler, Terry Taylor, Gino Hernandez, Chavo Guerrero Senior, Debbie Combs, and Donna Day.🤔🎤🤼‍♀️🤼‍♂️B.W.

[@Makedippinggreatagain1ky]

Tiger Conway Twitty jr 😮lol

[@chainsawbarbarian]

I need a badass Tiger Mask action figure

[@pooddescrewch8718]

Didn't Frank Dalton get beaten so badly by The HellsAngels that he had to get his lower leg amputated ? Didn't he and Don Fargo work as The Hells Angels ?

[@troublesomewestsideoutlaw5754]

I FEEL YOU JIM

[@Collinzmusic]

1:18:52 🤣🤣

[@theghostofgonzo8607]

More of this. I'm tired of wrestling podcasts being about current wrestling or 90's wrestling.

[@NLaBar]

Mike the Biggun’ ??? Have to look that guy up