Jimmy Carr Doesn’t Think He’s Punching Down | Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend

[@mjr2451]

“Intention and context matter… There’s a big difference between homelessness and camping“. That killed me.

[@dimitrimozhovy230]

*Intention and context

[@INRamos13]

You didn't even understand it.

[@mjr2451]

I use voice dictation on my phone. Damn autocorrect :p

[@BleachDemon99]

⁠@@INRamos13could you enlighten me? I missed the point…..

[@Ou8y2k2]

@@BleachDemon99 I'll bite, assuming you're not joking: Carr didn't say that line in jest but meant that comics aren't usually malicious because of their 'intention and context'. Furthermore, Conan and co. didn't laugh at that point. What was there to laugh about when comparing camping and homelessness? You see, comedy is subjective.

[@treasonabledoubt7251]

If I ever meet Conan, I vow to thank him for the years of laughter from so many things, in so many ways, pause, and say "my wife, though... Not a fan."

[@NSGrendel]

Presumably your wife is a "reader". Conan is offensively stupid. The smartest thing to come out of Conan was his producer's, "preference". Watching Conan is like mining though retardedness to get to the gold of whatever his guest said. He has NOTHING to add. EVER. If you enjoy Conan - read more? I can't help otherwise. I would also ensure that your fiscal holdings are separate to your wife. Because I sense active contempt.

[@-dugair]

I bet he heard that throwaway joke before skin.

[@treasonabledoubt7251]

@@-dugair Are you okay?

[@-dugair]

@@treasonabledoubt7251 ( ･ิ ͜ʖ ･ิ) need coffee.

[@-dugair]

@@treasonabledoubt7251 I'll be okay once I find some coffee. ( ͡• ͜ʖ ͡• )

[@annyrisaponte4161]

"People laugh at the wrong thing because they know what the right thing is."

[@jpa_fasty3997]

Ricky Gervais, that one was originally from

[@bradleydavies335]

Not really!

[@Pumbear]

Sometimes that is why the joke works, but sometimes it's cause it aligns with what they believe is right. One joke can be entirely ironic, while another is funny because it's true.

[@TragicGFuel]

@@BuildinWings it's not

[@nanashi1173]

​@@BuildinWingshuh

[@KevRyanCG]

The funniest thing about Jimmy Carr is the disparity between his eloquent musings on the nature of comedy itself, and his actual jokes.

[@AntonGully]

Yup. He's funny. His comedy is dire. Some people like it. Which is also dire. Akuna matata.

[@thecocktailian2091]

You have to be bright to make dim funny.

[@whateverdope]

​@@AntonGullyit's "Hakuna", it is dire that you do not know this.

[@MrBrock314]

@@whateverdope And people complain about someone correcting their vs. there... ;)

[@whateverdope]

@@MrBrock314 it is a dire situation

[@ronhudson3730]

Carr has to be one of the most articulate people I have ever heard or seen. His ability to convey complex thoughts, at a machine-gun pace, while being comprehensible, is astounding.

[@morbidmanmusic]

it isn't rocket science though...

[@mikebrown8251]

Would you say that if he were a person of color?

[@TheLunarnotes]

agreed. Problem is, he's just not funny. He hasn't made me laugh once in the 20 years he's been on the UK circuit.

[@jesperjee]

@@mikebrown8251 Huh? What does that have to do with anything??

[@outlander234]

@@TheLunarnotes Does your cousin or mom like him?

[@7dwyerm]

I love Conan. Thank you for using your intellect to spread laughter and joy ❤

[@jessi2077]

I saw Jimmy at OHare airport and I admit I didn’t go up to him…I just excitedly texted my family 😆

[@DavidAlvarado-js3qq]

Ironically, your family would have probably gone up to him to take pictures to send to you.

[@littleshopofrandom685]

My brother harassed jerome iginla in an airport line. I just felt so bad for the guy, he's been on a plane for 5 hours. leave the guy alone. haha.

[@otter011]

My dad accidentally bumped into an actor who I had a huge crush on when I was as teenager. He told him that I had a crush on him, bought him a drink, texted me that he’s sitting next to him, and left. I was so embarrassed. Plus mad that he didn’t ask for anything 😄 it hadn’t even occurred to him

[@chelsea-pv3bm]

​@@littleshopofrandom685I love this random reference to Jerome Iginla! The only celebs I've ever met are hockey-related: Iginla and Walter Gretzky, who came over to my family at the airport when we said goodbye to my dad for a NATO tour. The Iginla interaction was also completely unprompted; my family visited a close neighbour in the Stollery Children's Hospital in Edmonton, where one ward was for adult stroke patients at the time. That neighbour who's suffered a stroke was like an uncle to us and it was a difficult visit, but Jerome Iginla was doing rounds visiting kids at the hospital that day! He dropped by our room (my neighbour is a massive hockey fan) and gave my neighbour, my younger brother & I autographed photos of him on the ice, with personalized messages. I've never been a sports fan at all really, but that is a hockey hero right there - just a kind & altruistic person :)

[@todddavis7438]

I could listen to Jimmy Carr all day. Like his comedy, love his engaging conversation.

[@pochatablet5948]

Love Jimmy. Always funny, articulate, and lightening fast.

[@thl205]

Harvard-educated comedian meets Cambridge-educated comedian and we get probably the most articulate and deep dive into the "cancel culture" subject I've seen. I've heard a thousand boring variations of "oh no, people are so sensitive these days" but no one ever explained the controversy -- or really, lack of controversy -- so well.

[@joshuafisher4241]

It's not really a lack though, they just don't realise you can't judge it by what happens to decades established comedians like Gervais and Chappelle. People tried to get them kicked off Netflix. That's cancel culture (the attempt). The real test is would Don Rickles be able to start today? I don't think he would and we're a poorer culture for it

[@jedinxf7]

​@@joshuafisher4241people with no power tried to get multimillionaires off a nearly trillion dollar company's platform, and the result was additional specials in the 10M to 20M range for them. if only we all had such problems.

[@kutark]

Thank you. Saved me having to type out the same basic post. It's great to hear 2 guys with 7 or 8 figure bank accounts and 20+ year careers telling everyone else that cancel culture doesn't exist.​@joshuafisher4241

[@thl205]

@@kutark I love people with no experience of comedy pretending like they know the industry better than working comedians.

[@hurrayforanonyms]

​@@joshuafisher4241I love how the argument that comedians are being cancelled is so easily disproven that you have to move to goal posts. So now it's about imagining that unknown comedians are being cancelled. Everyone can name numerous comedians famous for anti-woke comedy, so you have to pretend that it's nobody comedians, ones that people can't immediately name, who are being silenced somehow. At what point do you question your argument instead of making it increasingly niche? Since stand-up began there's been a never-ending string of comedians who court controversy and it helps make them famous. In 5 to 10 years the people you're pretending are suppressed will be famous. But you'll likely just replace '2024' with '2029', '2034', and blindly carry on making the same incorrect argument. Of course Don Rickles could start today. He just mightn't do as well with a few of the hacky racist jokes. Rickles would point at a black audience member and say 'your brother is robbing my hotel room'. He'd pull his eyes while saying 'ching chong' and call it an impression. Which of these jokes do you think is a huge loss to our culture? I'm not even sure how you think this junk has disappeared when Shane Gillis literally got famous by doing the same lazy asian impersonations that Rickles did in the 70s and 80s.

[@mengshun]

TY Team Coco for getting Jimmy Carr on! Great comedian and great convo. PLEASE bring on more British talent like Noel Fielding, Alex Horne, Jennifer Saunders, Jow Lycett and the like. Yes, I'm an American - not British - but they have a great comedy scene there and deserve some love from us. Also, Katherine Ryan and Rich Hall would be great for the "North American comedians in the UK" discussions and perspectives.

[@barbarahoward5080]

Absolutely!! 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown is a masterpiece to me.

[@emersonb.4152]

ahhhh ... two of my favorite personalities talking intelligently and sharing perspective. good stuff. Thanks Team Coco.

[@coreybangs]

(3:40) I can relate to "Comedians, we desperately, desperately, want to be loved; entirely on our own terms". It is enlightening and a burden. 😆

[@Vyzard]

So glad that most of this discussion has been uploaded in video format. Now I wonder if they'll also upload the last bit where Carr thinks he need to do an ad read

[@thoughtgale]

I've really enjoyed the spate of Jimmy Carr appearances on podcasts, the conversations have been interesting and funny!

[@nem447]

While touring in the USA you might as well get more exposure, and do the podcast rounds...smart!

[@tonyjackson4078]

I've watched quite a few Carr clips, never seen him live, but it's obvious no one is safe. He doesn't target any specific type of person, the entire audience is fair game and he strikes like a viper if he sees you and decides you're next.

[@Widdekuu91]

And a good comedian, which Jimmy is hopefully striving to be and stay, is someone that uses 'dosage' in their humor and balances out the venom, based on how much venom the person has already received from the world.

[@kool263]

I love horror for the different real life themes but comedy and comedians can cut through to the emotions and feelings of everyday life. It’s funny and they make it comfortable to talk about things

[@lmac40762]

I agree with his bit about intention and context. It's not hard to tell if you are being laughed with or laughed at.

[@philwill0123]

True, but those laughed at, are told "suck it up, it's comedy", how dare you be offended that the target is you"

[@lmac40762]

Absolutely, and anyone being honest knows that's bullshit there are all sorts of things considered over the line, and certain groups are considered acceptable to be cruel towards. Andrew Dice Clay wasn't being brave or revolutionary when he did homophobic comedy he was just appealing to a common prejudice at the time. It's often just bigotry, but even worse, it's boring and unoriginal.

[@adamcoe]

you'd think so, wouldn't you

[@Widdekuu91]

I would argue a well-written joke about a vulnerable group of people (gays, autistics, deaf, black, etc.) will not make those people the punchline.

[@badacob]

can we please get the whole podcast here on youtube insted of 10 min clips

[@garrettvenn9022]

I first learned about Jimmy Carr like 12 years ago when a friend introduced me to QI, and he stuck in my head as "the guy with the unique laugh". Then later on, KZbin would recommend me clips of 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown, and I've been hooked ever since. Jimmy's stand-up is definitely different from his panel show content, but he's nevertheless sharp. Also, RIP Sean Lock.

[@thegoodgeneral]

“in your hierarchy of humans” changes the context of everything he says leading up to that line. Masterful.

[@Jayk129]

The two funniest people on the planet having a nice little conversation.

[@marcbelisle5685]

I really like what Conan said about so-called “cancel culture.” It’s true that the people who complain the loudest about getting cancelled are not actually being prevented from saying anything.

[@patavinity1262]

Do you not think the threat of losing your livelihood counts as 'prevention'? I'm struggling to understand what you mean.

[@marcbelisle5685]

@@patavinity1262 Not sure what you're confused about, but it is true that the people who complain the loudest about being "cancelled" are some of the people responsible for some of the most toxic, divisive and inflammatory rhetoric in society, and they're well insulated from being fired for it.

[@rickl5596]

No but they lose their platform to say things to the same degree as before.

[@DJPrince2032]

Jimmy Carr has been my favorite stand up for more than a decade now. And it's always nice to hear one of your idols sort of make similar claims to what your own thoughts about issues are. Like seriously cancel culture isn't a real thing. People who do messed up stuff being cancelled is real. A white "comedian" shouting the N-word, not as a punchline, or to make a point, but to use it to be hurtful is offensive, that might get you cancelled. But stuff like that has exsisted for a long time, and only the wrong kind of people defend such acts. I think that's just the consequences that almost all humans would have to live with. Even when comedian's who do a bit that doesn't land, and in fact make people think "I'm not sure if this guy is joking or not". and they then get "cancelled" after... generally do not miss a beat and are right back in the circuit. Tony Hinchcliffe who I never thought was funny, was just "cancelled" for telling a tasteless joke that clearly did not land and was told completely at the wrong time... well since he's been cancelled, he's still doing his show. Heck Matt Rife, who I thought his crowd work was fair, but his actual material was ehhh. He was cancelled because he stupidly went after his demographic... despite being cancelled, he is still running the comedy circuit. Heck Louis C. K. who is pretty dang funny, actually committed a crime, by exposing himself to a woman, he was cancelled... he took a break, but he is 100% back and touring... but yeah, totally cancelled... cancel culture is not real people.

[@Ailieorz]

Jimmy is so right, you can tell when a comic is punching down, a smugness that says "I think I'm better than you". Jimmy doesn't have that

[@fabianhammer2864]

that guy is nothing, if not smug

[@Widdekuu91]

Jimmy has that, certainly, but he has been bettering himself, in dosage for people and not making the vulnerable the punchline. Hecklers get it now, usually.

[@rickl5596]

The whole punching down thing has nothing to do with feeling superior, it has to do with having a bigger platform than those you are striking at. Sort of like fighting from an elevated position.

[@mursuka80]

Yep. Ricky Gervais and Dave.

[@AcEo0]

best combo ever! ❤

[@zane8116]

Spot on about dragging partners to the show! My wife is as intelligent as they come but she's just not very good with puns. I probably missed half of Jimmy's jokes because I was explaining the previous one to her 😂

[@MarkRussell-j5z]

"Your Best Friend is someone you talk to with no filter". So true.

[@BigChiken44]

Seeing Conan and Carr being in the same room is weird ... I mean I knew they exist in the same universe, but still...

[@edwinicq]

carr is so thoughtful and eloquent

[@DavidAlvarado-js3qq]

The Overton Window is indeed shifting. I must admit to getting a little thrill watching Conan go after La Bamba's lifestyle back in the naughties (2000s).

[@guinnessharvey4476]

“My wife. . . .not a fan “:)

[@stormwildthing5321]

Just seen this clip, i saw a clip in which ricky Gervais said, i want people to stop saying something is offensive, i want them to say, they found it offensive, there's a difference a lot of people don't seem to realise,

[@philwill0123]

Maybe, but does Gervais care if someone found it offensive? Probably not. It's a semantic that makes him feel above anyone who criticises. First he tries to "correct" them, then he's going to dismiss them anyway. Gervais can't take criticism. That's why first 40mins of all his recent shows is "responding" to criticism of his trans jokes. At that point, is he trolling to deliberately provoke reactions for content for his shows, or is it he can't stand criticism and he's doubling down for content of his shows?

[@rickl5596]

By that logic nothing is offensive and it is all subjective. Yet I could say a lot of things that only psychotic/demented people would not find offensive...

[@shiryu22]

sona seems like a huge fan!

[@summerrr1]

No she’s just a huge lump

[@Kyle-nm1kh]

Her ears are interested

[@zarazen8110]

LOVE YOU, CONAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@Oohcnap]

I'm not a fan of Jimmy but he has good points about the reality of cancel culture. But the punching down joke at the end was disingenuous to what "punching down" really means and the vid cuts off and doesnt get to him explaining what he thinks about it. The title for the vid can probably be different

[@brucelee4996]

You sound like a whiny, sniveller. 🤫 🚼🍼

[@marcomartinez8608]

That's as deep as he gets into it

[@Oohcnap]

@@marcomartinez8608 thats a shame. The title isnt very good then

[@sqronce]

Yeah, with the cut so quick after the joke, I immediately got curious as to whether/how many people in the comments wouldn't understand that that bit was a joke (especially because of the video title.) I'm not keen to put a number on how many I've seen misunderstand it, because I'd need to mind read to properly categorise anyone, but, maybe 4-ish?

[@mediocrites2]

I respect Jimmy Carr for his comedy chops and he’s an insightful person. Also I think punching down or punching up describes a hierarchy of power and class, among humans equal in their humanity, but unequal in their liberation or empowerment to act, because they are constrained throughout their lives; unequal access to education, employment; entire communities living in multigenerational poverty with higher proximity to pollution and cancer zones and blue collar work with higher injury and death rates, living 20 years less on average from one zip code to the next. Parents under stress and job loss and automation and downsizing and entire job categories disappearing and offshoring and the decoupling of wages from productivity since the 1970’s; punching down is a real thing when politicians and parties scapegoat the least powerful in society with the least agency- blaming homeless people for homelessness, blaming crime or worsening conditions on immigrants.

[@Chimponaut]

Be sure to let me know when you find someone admitting to punching down.

[@NoHandle537]

Jimmy Carr kills me. He's hilarious.

[@thejfg7741]

He definitely punches down but that is what he does. It’s low hanging fruit with Jimmy. He knows what his audience is and he’s not afraid to pander. There is an honesty in the sense that Jimmy Carr doesn’t pretend to be anything he’s not. He’s also smart and he handled his tax scandal well but yes, of course he lunches down. It’s path of least resistance comedy.

[@MMallon425]

Two of the smartest guys in the business, without a doubt.

[@JMPT]

Very Nice 🧡🖤

[@lachauntiswashington231]

This is great 👍 👌 😂😂

[@BreakDownUnder]

That comment at the end was brilliant.

[@mohamed_m_hagag]

Jimmy Carr really looks like a young Nixon, I guess that is the closest Conan will get to his dream of having Nixon on the podcast, he might be subconsciously enjoying this interview just for this

[@pretzelhunt]

Nixon! by Mattel, maybe

[@bradmodd7856]

I think he has a round enough face to nail the Benny Hill biopic...the long awaited Benny Hill biopic

[@somanytakennames]

How refreshing to hear a comedian, who tests the line as regular as Jimmy does, talk about how blown out of proportion cancel culture is.

[@marcomartinez8608]

Right. It's very original. No other comedian does that lol

[@francescaa8331]

💯

[@karlalden2076]

That's all comedians do ever anymore and it's not funny shut up

[@DoomPlague]

@@karlalden2076 Comedians are always claiming that cancel culture isn't real and isn't ruining comedy? Because I still hear many comedians whining about cancel culture.

[@rishabhpb]

​@@marcomartinez8608by blown out of proportion, they mean how it's a bunch of nonsense that isn't really a threat to anybody

[@Major_Lexx]

Very talented men.

[@williamalexander7481]

I adore Jimmy Carr so much

[@koho]

Jimmy is incredibly insightful and articulate. Oh - and funny. I'd ask him for a selfie, and I'd tell him that I like him.

[@Where_is_Waldo]

3:24 Great musicians haven't got that either. Sure, there's plenty of broadly popular musicians who think that way and they have many fans and, even if most of their fans just join in the trend, some of those fans truly think they sound awesome or think they're saying something deep and meaningful that needs to be said even if it's been said thousands of times by many different artists but I really think that all of the music I love is music that was created by people who really loved what they were creating even if no one else likes it. You can hear the passion in that music. It doesn't come and go with a trend, the people who love it *really* love it.

[@PrimarchX]

Cancel culture is real for things like your relationships with sponsors, who will drop you like a hot baked potato when challenged. Some comedians are less susceptible to this than others.

[@esspyarrow8772]

That's the definition of selling out, in terms of sponsors.

[@Danetto]

jimmy carr is really funny

[@jalavela]

Jimmy’s laugh makes me laugh

[@samwilliams7192]

@5:02 Preference falsification.

[@DavidRamirez-l1t]

Conan O Brian Is The Worlds Most Funniest Person Alive I Love Him To Death He Is So Funny I’m A Huge Fan Blessings To Him Always From Dee Rico Ramirez

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

If only you loved writing normal sentences as much as you love Conan

[@roosasainio3744]

​@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09English isn't everybody's first language and also some people aren't talented at writing in a way that's found generally "normal". If only you had the same enthusiasm to creating an actual personality that isn't reliant on bashing on other people's grammar as you do for making dumb KZbin comments.

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

@@roosasainio3744 It was a joke lol, and English not being your first language doesn't mean you don't know that you don't Capitalize Every Word.

[@jedinxf7]

my wife though , not a fan

[@lpluva1]

The censorship whiners are usually the less funny comedians who just want to live in a consequence free world. A great comic can spend an hour making cancer jokes to a room full of cancer patients and survivors, and kill. I've seen people kill with Holocaust and rape jokes and manage to not be "cancelled". So many of them need an exterior reason, something out of their control to blame for why they bombed and people are pissed, "I can't be funny because I'm to real!" No bruh, you just can't be funny. You can do a joke about ANYTHING, it just needs to be funny. Don Rickles spent a life time saying the most awful and unimaginably brutal things to people and we loved him for it. Everybody caught his wrath, from a tourist in from Nebraska or the President at his Inauguration they all caught the fury, but nobody believed for a second he meant it. He got away with it only because we all knew he was actually an extraordinarily sweet guy, that's part of the reason it was funny. If people recoil and hate that thing you just said it's partly because they believe you believe it. Jeselnik hasn't been cancelled and he constantly surprises me with the most ruthless and perverted things I have ever heard. How you say a thing is usually more important than what you say.

[@jackprather81]

If I use vocabulary that is currently common on network television at my job on a consistent basis I would not be asked to return. I'm talking about vocabulary that has been treated this way since long before I was born. Censoring yourself to make your own life better has always been a thing. People are just salty that what they need to censor changes over time. Also, I'm betting many religious people wouldn't recognize that they've been exercising the same control of personal expression for centuries. These are the same people whining about "cancel culture."

[@patreekotime4578]

Well, the first example is more like code-switching. Your work personality can be Florence Nightengale while your off-work personality can be a filthy sailor. Code-switching isn't always censorship though... a mild mannered person may take on a "tough" persona when in a scary situation. Self-censoring would be that even the filthy sailor isnt saying things they really want to say because they fear some kind of backlash. And self-censoring is also different than genuine evolution which is when a person grows up a little and decides for themselves they no longer think that way or find thst thing appropriate to say. It's important I think to understand all three as different things. It goes back to intentionality and context as Jimmy said. So no, it isnt all "cancel culture"... that is a specific thing with a specific impact on people.

[@jedinxf7]

​@@patreekotime4578I think an honest look at most code switching would recognize it as a form of (potentially benign ) self censorship. it is "voluntary" (but with perceived or real consequences for not engaging in it) change of expression to accommodate social norms that are externally imposed. sure some of it is simply a form of bilingualism or a species of it, when some welcome personal or social contexts allow or demand use of other language or social register , but when it's about confirming to an employer's norms built around a particular dominant culture? calling it code switching doesn't mean it isn't self censorship; some rhombuses are also squares.

[@patreekotime4578]

@@jedinxf7 That's the thing though: maybe the first time you ever walked into a job interview it was voluntary self censorship. Like meeting your in-laws or attending a church service when you don't normally go. But after you have worked a few decades you don't even realize that you *arn't* using profanity until you accidentally do. It's no longer a voluntary conscious act, it's a persona you strap on without even thinking about it. That's code switching. Not only is it unvoluntary, but sometimes we don't even know when we are doing it, and it isn't until someone else points it out that we even realize it. Ask anyone who has worked in customer service jobs for a long time. It just becomes part of the "auto-pilot" mode we all go into in the day-in day-out of life.

[@MrBrock314]

@@patreekotime4578 Very true - my parents did it as teachers constantly. At home, they had one voice and as soon as the phone would ring and they were talking to a parent or even school related, they sounded different. Tone would switch. Not from "mean" to "nice" but from "casual" to "formal". They had a teacher voice and they had a parent voice and they were not the same.

[@nicholasgeorge4156]

I wouldn’t mind talking to celebrities I don’t know either. Mostly athletes. I don’t know most of them. I’m sure celebrities would like to talk to non fans too. Cause they see each other as humans and not the one main thing the celebrity is known for.

[@almost_harmless]

I agree that cancel culture has a hard time canceling comedians, but it has happened. When you lose your livelihood because you were fired from a job because you said the wrong word - or have the wrong opinion - it is all too real. It shouldn't be like that, but it has been and probably still is, depending on where in the world you live and in what line of work you are.

[@ThomasKameo]

As an autistic person, who has stated openly that I want to get into a job by merit, not simply because I'm autistic, and in saying that have been removed from support groups due to that line of thinking, I must argue that cancel culture is very much a thing, even to those the policies are supposedly advocating for. And good lord, even the single-digit-aged kids in my families are getting into divisive politics now. Manic times.

[@IntoTheWeeds71]

Fellow autistic person, here. I can understand wanting to get into a job by merit, but the practical truth is that opportunities are rarely given by merit alone. Opportunities are given by people, and people are flawed - having been on the other side of the desk, I know sometimes it comes down to whoever the hirer likes best or thinks will be a good culture fit. None of that is about merit, but it happens all the time, which is why diversity & inclusion policies exist. It's easy to think about the opportunities one might miss based on a policy, but it's important to also consider how many opportunities other people missed, despite how much merit they had, because such policies didn't yet exist. As a close-to-home example, I'm hyper verbal, but non-verbal autistic folk or those who need far more accommodations will likely miss out on a bunch of opportunities, regardless of their on-paper merit. Apologies if I misunderstood what you said.

[@MrBrock314]

@@IntoTheWeeds71 "I know sometimes it comes down to whoever the hirer likes best or thinks will be a good culture fit. None of that is about merit" That's a common misconception. Merit includes how you will do at that job and in that place. Not being a good fit for a job is being unqualified. It's not necessarily something you can change exactly but it's why researching the company you're applying for is important so that you present in such a way that they DO feel you'll fit the culture (or at least be beneficially positive towards it). If the company is all about the sharing of ideas and collaboration, you better not present as a grunt who just takes orders. And if the company is a "orders come from on high" place, you'd better not act all freedom-loving. It's not that you or your personality are inherently bad but no one hires someone they don't want to work with or who they feel will be disruptive to their community.

[@philwill0123]

​@@MrBrock314problem is, if your culture and fit are the same type of person, you likely to employ the same type of person, or rock the boat and hire someone completely different? It's that mindset which allows the narrow selection field. The most qualified person may be the worst cultural fit. So therefore it's not a meritocracy, it's just personal choice. If all ten candidates all have the same degree, it's hirerboas that comes into play, not meritocracy. Otherwise you wouldn't need an interview, you would be chosen purely on cv

[@jsquared1013]

@@philwill0123 intangibles such as "company culture fit" and professional bearing are part of being qualified or not, it's not just statistics on a resume.

[@jeffpowanda8821]

Jimmy Carr just might be the most intelligent podcast guest I've ever seen. Also very funny.

[@GuidoGrasso]

Preference Falsification

[@krylesangerbeaver]

Carr and Jeselnik are great for "crossing lines" and making it funny

[@Spaghettaboutit]

Cept Jeselnik never would pretend that he didn’t know what punching down was or what that means. He knows to toe the line and deliberately doesn’t punch down. He’s talked a lot about this and talks about wanting the challenge of making good jokes while working around hurting people that don’t deserve it.

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

It's not just punching down that's a problem, it's inclusive humour vs exclusive humour. You've all seen it in action, when someone makes a joke at somebody's expense in a social setting. That makes them the joke and differentiates them from the group. When you do that on stage directed towards a group of people it's the same thing. When you do it to a group that's already marginalised in society, that's punching down and further compounds the problem.

[@Jnoooooo]

Why is it a problem when a comedian does it on stage? You can either watch them, or not. No big deal. PS I'm from one of these so-called marginalised groups, and I love the work of Jimmy Carr.

[@retrospectology]

Exactly. I think he's being a little dishonest when he tries to "turn around" the question and accuse the people criticizing 'punching down' as being the ones with a hierarchy. It shows that he actually doesn't understand what people mean when they talk about punching down. Social injustice creates the hierarchy, acknowledging the existence of that hierarchy and pointing out when a comedian's rhetoric reinforces it isn't advocating for the hierarchy. That's like saying criticizing slavery is admitting you think people should be slaves.

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

​@@retrospectologyWell said. It's worth noting that Jimmy Carr was caught evading taxes for millions of pounds in 2012. When I take that into account, plus his Cambridge school education, plus working in marketing for Shell Oil....I come to the conclusion that this guy doesn't see his privilege and also doesn't have a very good moral compass.

[@Willbassyeah1]

Have you seen Carr performance? He literally insults the paralympics.

[@Banned4Life]

​@@DarkMoonWayfarer Read a bit about the taxes and what happened there.

[@RamblingMcGregor]

Conan and Carr host and narrate a documentary/biography series collab with Ken Burns on comedy and western culture

[@roberthoward9500]

Ricky Gervais is the perfect example of using "cancel culture" to his own ends. When he tells a bad joke that the audience didn't laugh at he screams "your cancelling me" rather than being strong enough to admit to himself the joke sucked. Too easy for comedians these days to cry "cancel culture" whenever people don't laugh at their jokes. I am glad Jimmy Carr is not one of those comedians.

[@somanytakennames]

I always found it ironic that Ricky gets so much praise for his Golden Globe moments considering how important and amazing he sees himself to be.

[@jerekorsumaki437]

What are you on about. Ricky's literally saying 'I don't care, f*ck off!'. Cancel culture truly has gone too far. Actors (and others as well) have been fired for nearly decade old tweets. And Ricky has another motto: just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.

[@DrainYouOut]

@@jerekorsumaki437 people have always been "cancelled" and fired for saying things, its just that said "things" have changed into things you might not agree with

[@DrainYouOut]

while I might not agree with firing someone for something they said 10 years ago when they have since showed they don't believe such things, its still not something new and has been happening forever.

[@danielbeaumont3744]

@@jerekorsumaki437 brace yourselves, the gervais simps have arrived

[@billrosmus6734]

Famous people are not really the people that 'cancel culture' affects. They are rich and it doesn't matter much because of it. It is the average person that cancel culture affects. If the average person loses their job because of cancel culture, and then has a hard time finding another job, THAT is where cancel culture actually applies. So Jimmy Carr is way off base. Of course it doesn't matter for him. He and people at his level need to get a grip and understand that it isn't all about him and people at his level.

[@CaptainCologne]

Comedy doesn’t have to push boundaries. It just has to be funny.

[@Uarehere]

Comedy is funny BECAUSE it plays with boundaries and expectations.

[@MrBrock314]

@@Uarehere That's not true all the time. There are a lot of good jokes that people know very well (ie. well within boundaries and expectations). Classic knock knock jokes for example.

[@susandrakenviller3683]

Thanks Jimmy Carr for your realistic take on ‘cancel culture’ instead of the usual whining.

[@Mutterschwein]

Yeah, other comedians strangely lack self-awareness and think that them getting criticized or disliked is "cancel culture" even though they're wealthier than ever and has another Netflix Special lined up 😆😆

[@chinkasuyaro8983]

I believe they call it 'whinging'.

[@TrophyGuide101]

​@@MutterschweinMost of the comedians I've seen complain about it have been the target of a cancellation attempt. Luckily they are already so big and have an established fanbase so whatever platform is being pressured into removing their content or cancelling their partnership can freely ignore it. If you were in charge of Netflix and millions of people wanted to watch the Dave Chapelle special on your platform while a few thousand people who were offended by it wanted you to remove it so those millions couldn't access it the choice is pretty easy.

[@Mutterschwein]

​@@TrophyGuide101 Yet it never actually happens to anyone but they keep whining about it. They just wanna put up a "rebel" image so bad as if more than half of the population don't actually support them and agree with them.

[@TrophyGuide101]

@@Mutterschwein It occasionally works if the person isn't already established and hasn't got a huge fanbase. Shane Gillis got fired from SNL after the cancel culture mob demanded it. Luckily he didn't let that come to define him and since then he grew in popularity and now has deals with Netflix etc. showing that even if you cancel someone from one platform there are other platforms they can go to making the entire cancellation attempt futile.

[@theobrominator]

Speaking of conflation… the term “punching down” doesn’t refer to thinking people have relative worth, rather it’s an acknowledgment that there’s a power hierarchy in society based on numerous factors - whether you actively participate in it or not. I think he’s too smart to misunderstand that.

[@IAmebAdger]

If you work in education you realise that nobody is ever too smart to misunderstand something. Every person, no matter how smart, has stupid moments, or ignorant moments. It's the human condition.

[@theoriginaltommysteward]

He completely understands it and thinks it's irrelevant to comedy. As do most people.

[@RobertSaxy]

7:47 I think this is were he acknowledges what you’re saying and were he found the joke in this part of the conversation

[@chocolatechimichanga]

​@@theoriginaltommystewardand he's right

[@theoriginaltommysteward]

@@chocolatechimichanga I figured that would be implied in what I said but apparently not...

[@davidrawlins8187]

Sadly cancel culture is real, but fortunately is not impacting comedians. In the UK we do have people being taken to court over bad taste jokes posted to social media or for quoting rap songs.

[@TheMichaeljmanzelda]

i miss the string dance

[@brianalbert8077]

Comedians who push the boundaries like Jimmy Carr owe a huge debt of gratitude to the immortal Lenny Bruce

[@ellan.124]

No, Jimmy Carr is a bigot while Lenny Bruce was an actual comedian.

[@guitarmatricide4834]

Practically every comedian since the 60s owes a tremendous debt to Lenny Bruce. Also, what the American justice system did to Lenny Bruce is a seriously unforgivable blemish on our résumé.

[@artemislogic5252]

why is that

[@brianalbert8077]

@@artemislogic5252 Lenny Bruce was the first stand up comedian to challenge obscenity laws that existed in the 50s and 60a. He was arrested multiple times for things he said but ultimately prevailed. He did more for freedom of speech than any human in the history of our planet. a true American Hero

[@DeadeyeJim327]

Punching down simply means making cruel jokes at the expense of people who society oppresses, for the delight of the oppressors.

[@bendover7841]

If you can't take a joke, that's a you problem. You can't laugh at jokes at the expense of some and get mad when they're about others. If you think you can't take jokes, don't watch comedy. Watch something else. The "punching down" argument is delusional.

[@Gino565]

Which society? Go all around the world and you’ll find oppression everywhere. And to the delight of oppressors? Right so it’s only punching down if a comedian has an all white audience (I’m guessing that’s who you mean by oppressors) and if there’s a member of the oppressed group who finds the joke funny then what? The hint is in the word ‘joke’. Not to be taken seriously.

[@darthgon146]

"Can't take a joke" argument is completely delusional. Even Conan said it in this clip. Some comedians make jokes with malicious intentions. Some even have hatred toward humanity. Intention and context matter. Sometimes jokes are funny. Sometimes they are made purely to spread hate.

[@KanesTheName]

​@@bendover7841 the argument of the oppressor

[@bendover7841]

@@KanesTheName go explain to the people in Palestine how you are oppressed because a comedian made jokes. I'm sure they'd empathize.

[@idde4345]

"Who is below me?" Come on Jimmy, you're an intelligent guy. I'm sure there are quite a few people you can think of who are having to deal with more crap in day to day life just by virtue of their skin color, religion or sexual orientation that you don't because you are a white, cissexual, straight guy. Who, as a most conservative estimate, is worth 15 million dollars. Other personal difficulties you or they may have not withstanding. And who are easy targets because of skincolor/sexual preference etc.. Surely you can grasp your place in a societal hierarchy, and how there are people 'below' you, and how punching down works. I don't believe for one second you actually think you're at the bottom of the totem pole in life.

[@davideberhardt6150]

I think the point he tried to bring across is that people talking about "punching down" project this social hierarchy onto other people and put these folks below "the comedian", which he rejects. In a way he's right, in actual society (what with him being a famous, well-heeled comedian) that's a bit of a moot point though.

[@MrBrock314]

This is a r/whoosh moment. You missed his point that the idea of punching down assumes a hierarchical structure to the world which he rejects as someone who believes in equality.

[@idde4345]

@@MrBrock314 I don't think I did. Nowhere in the video does he say he believes all people are equal, and therefore noone is 'below him'. He even says he's aware he's a white straight guy, indicating he's aware he has privileges others don't. So your read he doesn't believe in punching down because of equality? Nah, not my take away. He repeats that he doesn't think anyone is *below* him, clearly indicating that hierarchy exists. Nowhere does he say it doesn't, he just places himself at the bottom. Which is either a bit of self deprecating humor (which is fine). Or some sort of justification to keep making the jokes he likes to make at others he himself also deems to be vulnerable, but still wants to keep making jokes about. In which case: disingenuous and a bit less fine. And perhaps it's both.

[@DoctorFurioso]

I agree with Carr here and think he has a strong ethical stance about "dark" or "edgy" humour, but "punching down" clearly has everything to do with power and nothing to do with self-image. I've noticed comedians like Carr or Frankie Boyle reject this idea outright, but clearly they are, in a social sense, powerful figures on a stage, commanding an audience. Whether it's a fair accusation to say they're "punching down" is another story, but it's a term that exists for a good reason.

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

Frankie Boyle does not punch down, in fact he's roasted Ricky Gervais for doing exactly that.

[@raidwipe]

It has been a while but doesn't Boyle punch up? He makes edgy jokes but I only remember them being about figures like the queen

[@lolz1317]

I think that's the point he's making. I'm gonna exagarate your point a bit, i know that it's not what you mean. But let's say you mean he is punching down because he's in command of an audience, it says more about your point of view then his. It is offcourse a discussion with multiple point of views, opinions and a lot of examples far left and right.

[@MrBrock314]

Does it exist for a good reason?

[@Stinkbug_Ab]

EXACTLY

[@byrne1916]

Jimmy punches down on Irish travellers alot

[@dikoo6506]

When's Season 2 coming out?

[@stonehenges5722]

Watching Jimmy makes me think how awesome Flula is🤔

[@lonelyone]

It's not punching down when you're an equal opportunity offender. It would be worse if some groups got preferential treatment for "not being able to take a joke."

[@TrophyGuide101]

Exactly, punch up, down, sideways whatever you want. There are no sacred cows, if you want equality then you get the pros and the cons too.

[@philwill0123]

But if you are a group who constantly got attacked, aren't you allowed to ask, why consistently us being targeted?

[@lonelyone]

Because you're human, just like everyone else.

[@NilaniPlays]

"It's not a hierarchy of humans, it's a hierarchy of privilege" I replied after a chuckle. He's smart and funny, but not unassailable.

[@bucyrus5000]

Jimmy has so much to teach other comedians.

[@patavinity1262]

Anyone who compares telling jokes to 'punching' is automatically not worth listening to.

[@rickl5596]

thing is, a lot of people think they can get away with insulting people by just adding at the end...it was just a joke!! Which is absurd.

[@DolphinsAreBetterThanHumans]

Cancel culture is an easy hack for unfunny/untalented comedians who cant do anything else. Go talk to clubs & talk to real funny comics & you will 100% get a majority of them calling it BS. People in the past saying wildest things that were also unfunny, got the heat from the public & rightfully so. Jimmy, gervais have been doing comedy on most sensitive like religion,race etc & are still here today and not 'cancelled'.

[@TrophyGuide101]

Getting heat from the public isn't the issue, it's when they take it a step further and try to stop anyone from seeing it. Look at the Chapelle cancellation attempt for example. People were literally saying 'This offends me, therefore, nobody should be allowed to watch it'. I can't imagine how big of an ego these people must have to think they should get to personally approve of all media other people are allowed to consume. Just little authoritarians puritans who are enraged that people can enjoy things they don't.

[@aolson1111]

@@TrophyGuide101 Who was prevented from seeing Chapelle?

[@TrophyGuide101]

@@aolson1111 They weren't prevented because Netflix didn't side with the people who wanted to prevent them. When you have millions lined up to watch something and a few thousand demanding nobody be allowed to watch it then the choice is easy.

[@darinsingleton3553]

I really like Jimmy .. and Conan; but the suggestion that "I'm not affected by cancel culture, ergo cancel culture doesn't exist," is rather myopic & self-serving. Further stating that part of the allure of comedy clubs, is as an arena where people can say or hear whatever they want .. the fact that there is a designated area for such freedom also belies that convenient dismissal of social / economic pressure.

[@TrophyGuide101]

Similar to the people who demanded Netflix remove the Chapelle special and when Netflix ignored them they used that as evidence that nobody tried to cancel Chapelle.

[@chrisdierking5108]

Am I the only person who thinks that Jimmy Carr is sort of like a British Jimmy Pardo?

[@deckenneth]

Two fo my absolute faves all-time.

[@jamesp5408]

3:46 This. Cancel culture is just a recycled version of people whining about criticism that they receive. I'm hot and cold on Jimmy's comedy, but he really nailed that part of modern culture.

[@TrophyGuide101]

I doubt many would agree with this take. Cancel culture is just the latest iteration of conservative Christian moms against rock music only this time it's mainly progressives who are against offensive jokes. They think if they get offended by a comedian their specials should be pulled from Netflix so nobody can watch them. They think if they get offended by a podcast that Spotify should cancel their partnership with said podcast host so nobody can listen to it. I can't imagine how far these people's heads are up their asses to think all media needs to be personally approved by them before anyone else can watch it. It's just progressive puritanism.

[@jamesp5408]

@@TrophyGuide101 you've done a great job of rounding up the strawmen.

[@TrophyGuide101]

@@jamesp5408 A strawman implies I made up the stance of someone. Did people not demand Spotify cancel their partnership with Joe Rogan? Did people not demand Netflix cancel their partnership with Dave Chapelle? Surely you aren't denying these events which took place never actually took place? What is the strawman argument I made?

[@JamesSmith-sw3nk]

Cancel culture doesn't exist once you get famous enough, average people still get cancelled from school or work opportunities because of 10yr+ social media posts.

[@TrophyGuide101]

It still exists, it just isn't as effective. A failed cancellation attempt (JK Rowling, Joe Rogan, Ricky Gervais, Dave Chapelle etc.) is still a part of cancel culture because it shows us that there are huge swaths of people who want to censor others and make it harder for people to access the content they find offensive. People who deny it exists can't deny people tried to cancel these celebrities unless they want to deny reality itself.

[@thecookiejoe]

He is playing the punching down part right? he does know how societies work, right? That's just a joke right? So while all humans are equal in "value" if you want to use that word, of course not all humans are equal in power. This is where satire and humor thrives and was born. The jester at court making fun of the all powerful king - and the audience saw the king not being untouchable and the king knew that he could just have the jesters head if he went too far. That is punching up. Punching down is making a joke about homeless people. Because they do not have the power to return to their home. Making a joke about campers is punching to the side, because like Jimmy, they have the power to go back to a home but they still have to pay rent. Punching to the side has problems as well because it often can turn into pushing people down for things they do not do the "right" way. People not mowing their lawn often enough, not having the new car or having a relative in a care facility. Jimmy does a lot of good jokes in what I would call good faith. There is no problem making a joke with homeless people involved, if you do not touch their dignity. And the backlash on jokes usually doesn't come from the topics but from the dignity that has been hurt. And in the long history of jokes there are just some jokes that have never really landed for people that care about dignity. But they would land with say a right wing audience or a "you can't censor me you woke liberals" type of people that think being nasty in society is just their thing. Of course there is a hierarchy in society. Some people have more power than others. Jimmy might get confused with a butch lesbian but in the end he will get hired as a man and will be paid as a man would be paid. A butch lesbian would not get hired because there already is a woman on the show and she would not get paid. Social hierarchy isn't a law, it's a practice. We all do it all the time Jimmy. It's fun to make jokes about it but it also is petty if you pretend like it doesn't exist when you made a joke in bad faith. The next defensive line is blame the audience btw. The audience is just too stupid to understand your satire on social hierarchies. The ones that do not exist.

[@aaronarcee]

Comedy has been making fun of itself for like 30 years, with Letterman, Conan, etc to where it has become the "thing" and if it does not hit and is really funny in this" immortalized "way its just comes off as really bad and that is when people jump on it and say you cant say that blah blah

[@thecocktailian2091]

30 Years? Try 100. You ever seen some of Joey Bishops sets? Don Rickles? Dangerfield? Read any interviews or anecdotes with Larry Fine( three stooges)?

[@aaronarcee]

@@thecocktailian2091 Yeah, like 4 of em. and they were outliers it was not part of the culture like it is now

[@silverwing4153]

I find an interesting idea behind it. Jimmy's jokes never come off as his serious opinion. I don't believe that his jokes about women are serious. I don't think his jokes about LGBTQ are serious. Nor about Africa, the middle east, or asia are serious. It's all the kinds of jokes you tell your friends at a party, but out loud and in public. They know you are joking. You aren't hiding your opinion behind a joke. And on top of that while he is throwing punches left and right up and down he also punches himself in the face just as offten.

[@mrrd4444]

The title sure is misleading and should probably be changed - all that being said, they're both right. People reward jokes that are intelligent, empathetic, and understand what they're talking about, and punish jokes that are ignorant and lazy. A lot of people make really smart trans jokes, for example, with obvious knowledge of the trans community and riffing on that, whereas others are just lazy, disconnected rehashes of often harmful stereotypes, or complaining about cancel culture or whatever. And definitely the worst version of this is when a comedian is super rich and joking to an audience that isn't that, because then what's to laugh about?

[@Oohcnap]

i feel the same, the title is misleading and could have better talked about their points and not the shallow joke at the end

[@DanUnderwood-v7m]

The issue is, I don’t think human beings are a hive mind collective. We have different tastes as to what is “smart” or “intelligent” or “harmful” which is why some people love Bill Burr and some people want to…cancel him.

[@TroubledTrooper]

I remembered listening to Don Rickles being asked by Larry King in the 90s if he could still do his act because people were "more sensitive now". Literally nothing has changed, do your jokes & ignore the people who don't like them.

[@wrenbo4816]

Yeah, it's a hierarchy of who has the power in society, not a hierarchy of worth as a person, that's a bit of an intentional look the other way, Jimmy. In general love and respect him. Really like how poetic he is in his points, even when he's missing the point.

[@jedinxf7]

and the answer to that question that the Twitter mob refuses to acknowledge, is that the mob has the power. it always has.

[@wrenbo4816]

@@jedinxf7 did i ask a question? if your argument is something about how the proles can cause revolution and thus have the ultimate power then I agree but that is so far away from this conversation that I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

[@personalsigh]

"If Jim Davidson can steal your material then perhaps it's time to rethink it" Stewart Lee on Jimmy Carr

[@RMS101]

I think we will get sick of comedies telling us why they are funny. Cancel Coulter is twodel, people will watch what they find funny, there's room for everyone.

[@sharkh20]

Cancel culture definitely exists, but it doesn't effect comedians too much. They have an out.

[@TrophyGuide101]

It effects up-and-coming comedians. I knew a guy who was just getting started in his career. Got invited to perform at the student union and a bunch of nutjobs who never intended on going to watch him found a clip of him making a joke they found offensive. Deep down they are little authoritarians so they decided that nobody, even those who want to go watch the show, shouldn't be allowed to. They got the gig canceled because of security concerns. It was the guy's biggest gig to date and it was taken away from him. He started making fun of the people who got the gig canceled on social media and they hated that so they started to spam all the comedy clubs in the area and basically got him blacklisted.

[@noahdoss1967]

Trust the experts extends to comedians too. If a comedian says “cancel culture is a self-made illusion” and a bunch of schmucks in youtube comments say it’s a real, problematic thing, I’ll trust the experts, dummies.

[@thecocktailian2091]

What exactly makes one an expert in cancel culture?

[@MrBrock314]

@@thecocktailian2091 The ones that got canceled, if they exist.

[@TrophyGuide101]

By your own logic cancel culture exists because Chapelle and Gervais, two of the biggest comedians say it does. Just out of curiosity what did you call the people protesting to get their specials removed and partnerships with Netflix cancelled?

[@TrophyGuide101]

@@thecocktailian2091 If they believe what I believe. According to this guy you have to trust the experts like Conan and Jimmy Carr but not the bigger comedians Gervais and Chapelle lol. Typical case of someone who says 'Trust the experts *that agree with me*'

[@scharaboosh]

It's really stupid to complain about journalists taking jokes out of context and then willfully misunderstanding what punching down means