Jiren: The Terrible Antagonist | The Anatomy of Anime

[@TotallyNotMark]

Don't forget to leave a like or dislike on the video! It really does help :) I'm specifically referring to the anime's interpretation of Jiren in this video. And if you enjoyed him, I'm happy :) Im not saying one can't enjoy his character.

[@fitolothegriffin556]

I mostly enjoyed jiren cause he's hot as fuck shirtless UwU

[@sanjin3401]

Jiren needs some hair to go supersayin

[@dath1886]

He was good in the last episode.

[@jimmymelad5300]

Mark thanks because of you and your videos on dragon ball you’ve convinced my Fiance to watch the series and as a result I get to get married with a Dragon Ball themed wedding cake

[@PlayerX-mi3dm]

CONTINUE THOSE VIDEOS WITH OTHER CHARACTERS !!!!

[@kb22swag]

Jiren backstory Jiren- my family and master are DEAD Vegeta- bro I'm working with a man who killed my race

[@espurrseyes42]

Goku- And you. Remember when Frieza killed you, Vegeta? He also killed my best friend. Remember that, Krillin?

[@christopherpoblete8562]

and Vegeta didn't even care

[@luiseduardoperezvilchis3698]

@0ddMonk3y good point

[@OrangeAtomicRugTM]

@0ddMonk3y the person has to have died within a year with normal dragon balls

[@OrangeAtomicRugTM]

@0ddMonk3y I have no idea, but don't you think goku would've brought back grandpa gohan if that were the case?

[@ultrainstinctgoku1926]

Here’s the problem. Jirens story began 5 episodes before the finale of a 54 episode long arc

[@MrTorsation476858]

That and his backstory was a poorly executed carbon copy of a generic shonen backstory

[@communityEsc]

Exactly.

[@ultrainstinctgoku1926]

Pound-For-Pound TOP’s issues were a result of Super’s main overarching issue in a nutshell. *Production* - One of the series directors leaving mid way through the arc to work on the movie - Toei not trying to help the quality of the series - Terrible scheduling and planning per episode It was just a mess I liked most of the TOP but man it could’ve been so much better than what it was.

[@Dalekolt]

@@MrTorsation476858 Like, I wouldn't even mind Jiren having a shitty backstory as much as I do if they had just revealed what it was from the get-go rather than hyping up the source of his big number and wrapping him in mystery the moment he's revealed. They could let Vegeta and Freeza learn about Jiren's past, and Vegeta could get enraged that his planet got blown up and he isn't a Super Saiyan God of Destruction, or maybe Freeza tries getting a rise out of him by promising to wipe out more villages or pretending to be the one who orphaned Jiren.

[@DreamerFromTheDepths]

@@MrTorsation476858 It's not even that, Jiren was beaten in an un-even fight once and that's it...Even carbon copy shonens do that better, how is that at all entertaining or believable? One loss which resulted in no death causes Jiren to be a sociopath? Why? Did he care about power at that point? He never seems to care about anything though so that's kind of out the window... There are other characters like Jiren but every single one of them is better.

[@igg7865]

I kinda find it funny that Goku legit beat Jiren so bad he actually gave him a personality near the end

[@onepiecethegoat4562]

Goku and frieza.

[@igg7865]

Ultra Instinct I was talking about the ui Goku Vs Jiren fight but that too

[@onepiecethegoat4562]

@@igg7865 oh okay.

[@crowns9966]

@@igg7865 True lol Jiren became a really dope character later in the saga

[@igg7865]

Col Friday yeah he was kinda chill lmao

[@joaogomes9405]

The problem with Jiren is that for 99% of his screen time, he's not a character. He's a wall, a block, a gate. He's only there to block progress and because he was told to, nothing else. You can't make a wall engaging.

[@rab1048]

He was just there so goku can get stronger

[@jackgebhardt2932]

Tell that to the classic spiderman villain: The Wall.

[@VenomtheOne]

Tell that to Pink Floyd's "The Wall"

[@theallmightyz4594]

@@NightmareZzK it's not his appearance it's the fact that he does nothing until UI goku shows up then after that nothing again until UI goku shows then nothing again until he has no choice but to fight goku because they're the last 2 teams left then near the end of the arc finally gets a character and after his backstory is revealed starts trash talking and smiling. Jiren didn't give us anything about his character outside of "I'm strong" until the end where BELMOND has to do it for him. And his backstory doesn't match his trust issues at all everyone he knows and cares about is slaughtered in front of him and the few survivors left know they can't win and jiren tries to get them to fight the guy again which is suicide. So he loses trust in people because they rode with him into battle the first time and got absolutely slaughtered so they don't want to fight the dude a week later and that's betrayal? It would've been better if Jiren and the students went back but left Jiren to die while they ran away that causes trauma and leads to major trust issues. That would've made his "power over friendship" more believable.

[@NightmareZzK]

@@theallmightyz4594 idc my comments is old as fuck

[@horaciosi]

"What kind of half-assed backstory is that?" -Vaccine Man

[@Blacknarock]

Good reference )))

[@youdontknowme2913]

Even vaccine man had more personality than jiren

[@MichaelKeaveneyYouTube]

horaciosi I’m sure Piccolo’s is far superior.

[@MichaelKeaveneyYouTube]

horaciosi I’m sure Piccolo’s is far superior.

[@marrowyoutube]

no way.. is that.. a ONE PUNCH MAN REFERENCE!?

[@dylancross1039]

Problem with Jiren is he's literally just a walking power level to give Goku his next asspull.

[@gastonyoutube7279]

who wasn't?

[@psychoticpurse6579]

Then so was Freeza, SSJ. So was Cell when Goku got ridiculously stronger in the Cell Arc (moreso for Gohan in this arc though) So was Buu, Goku got SSJ3. So was Beerus, Super Saiyan God. Hit with SSB Kaio-Ken. So was Jiren

[@theendersmirk5851]

Eh, it wasn't really one with Frieza, though. It was the culmination of the whole story of the form Frieza feared that Vegeta had been mentioning over and over throughout the arc.

[@sonny3265]

Four

[@Step43099]

PsychoticPurse 6 But those characters had personality. They were *villains* with no qualms killing any and everyone around just for fun or for their goals. Yea In hindsight you could say they’re all just a catalyst for Gokus new asspull but at the time they didn’t feel that way. But Jiren is so obviously that and he’s not even fun to watch. He hardly speaks, he does nothing for the longest time, his design compared to the Z villains and even the movie villains is so plain and boring most of the fandom only likes him because “He stronk, he fight Goku real good, he real stronk.”

[@giv3578]

Jiren: This is my fullpower *goku goes mui* Jiren: okay I lied I was holding back again...

[@phantomthief2311]

I get the joke but ocd is making me do this anyway, it was jiren’s current full power. Goku’s personality awakened a new power in jiren equal to mui. The only reason it wasn’t close in the end is cause jiren made goku mad

[@uhhhidk2238]

I think goku should have lost and not gained full mui this fight, Jiren should have definitely won. Then at the end he would reconsider: Revive my master? Or accept the fact that he died, knowing that his master would have been proud of him, thus making the decision of reviving all of the universes. Would have made his character soooooo much more likable. Still my favorite character besides broly because of how badass he is tho lol

[@ZayDeyknow]

@@uhhhidk2238 hell no jiren is just strong for no reason just so goku has a obstacle he was a non needed character I would rather have frieza turn on everyone at the end

[@uhhhidk2238]

GodOfCreation 21 but that would have given Jiren character. They definitely tried by giving build up and giving him a backstory, and then having him respect goku at the end. If you’re just gonna spit nonsense then don’t reply

[@thrillainthemanilla1409]

SSJack23 _ Smells like bullshit to me

[@Masterslam999]

I can't believe that the strongest person in dragonball canon is the "ayy lmao" meme.

[@I.disagree]

*Reality Canon

[@idkchocolate]

He's not the strongest

[@Masterslam999]

I think you get what I'm trying to convey. No need to be technical about it.

[@user-ye6je1dk8x]

idiot

[@NightmareZzK]

SHUT THE FUCK UP AYYY LMAO IS A PIECE OF SHIT IT MAKES JIREN A EVEN WORSER CHARACTER YOU CREAPY BASTARD

[@Jester2415]

The thing is, everything was set up perfectly for this arc. Jiren is a literal superhero in the show. And Goku was scapegoated as a "villain" early in this arc, with the other Universes believing he was responsible for the tournament. Team 7 has a roster of former/currant villains: Piccolo, the androids, Vegeta, and, of course, the infamous Frieza. Sooooo… Jiren should be PISSED and out to punish the evil Universe 7, believing Goku is in league with Frieza and Prince Vegeta (Frieza did historically hire Saiyans). It would be the perfect ironic role reversal... and they did nothing with it. Jiren not caring if everyone died was not in character with his backstory or his actual job(saving people).

[@samueljackson3512]

Yeah that's what we were all expecting when the TOP was starting. Idk why they didn't follow up on it. I like the angle you mentioned of Gokus team being full of villains.

[@CerealExperimentsMizuki]

Yeah mate, fucking hell that wouldve been awesome and with Goku trying to convince him aswell I'd like to have seen him try.

[@Genderkaiser]

Why would they write a faction of the absolute best boy superheroes in the multiverse and then put a bland dragon ball bad guy at the too Why

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

I dont think Jiren is nonchalant about whether people live or die, he was just being pressured so hard by Goku that he was willing to do almost anything to beat him, because to Jiren, losing equated to experiencing his youth again. If a victim of years of torture equated losing to being strapped to a chair and tortured again, they would likely do something similar. He saw the people in the stadium as the source of Goku's strength, so he sought to eliminate them to weaken Goku.

[@thorfaxx6027]

Jiren's "actual job" is not saving people. He literally states that his desire is to seek that which lies beyond strength, not save people. He even treats his own universe with contempt because he has no trust in anyone weaker than him. Which because he's the strongest means he doesn't trust anyone.

[@reyeus5282]

The first time we're introduced to Vegeta, he is seen eating *SOMEONE* he just killed.

[@mirsadajdari]

You would too under harsh conditions

[@virtualinsanity589]

@@mirsadajdari Under harsh conditions? He was born evil not because of frieza

[@Pdalow]

@@Mimhere That's the point dingus.

[@virtualinsanity589]

@Johnny Serrano Barraza 👍

[@Fojabass]

@Johnny Serrano Barraza He works under Frieza, he's by no means desperate for food or shelter and definitely not in "harsh conditions" as many people for some reason (?) seem to make it out to be. The dude's just an asshole, he thinks of the local animals (people?) as a pitstop.

[@sreddi83]

Jiren's story is so generic his enemy didn't even get a name

[@KingChampii]

sreddi83 an evil doer

[@crisisboy5822]

Uh, el hermano

[@archivey-h8e]

He didn't need a tragic back story, his motivation should have been Goku was the villain due to him starting the TOP & Jiren wanted to stop him in the name of justice, The Pride Troopers are Super Heroes, the Z Fighters are not.

[@sreddi83]

@@archivey-h8e Yeah that's why Frieza's interactions with the Pride Troopers were much more enjoyable than any of the Z-fighters. They should have just gone the whole way revived Cell and have a side-plot of him Eating the Troopers 'It's not killing them so it's allowed', then conflict being let Cell reach Jiren's power or put an end to this

[@michaelpowell3204]

I feel like that's a seed for future narrative.

[@MrDumpitout]

Jiren looks less like a villain and resembles more of a basic training character model in a fighting game circa. 1999

[@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக்]

Rise of The Robots and Pepsiman lmao

[@alexanderespana9429]

Ian dilorenzo : You stupid men You shit y You dead

[@gerboog]

Jiren is not a villain. He was only a participant at the tournament.

[@gerboog]

@Moisés Silva lol so true. Pride Troopers are heroes in their galaxy.

[@Player-sz8jk]

@Moisés Silva so if you had to beat someone or everyone you ever loved would die would you see your enemy as a good person? And if yes when you learn he does not care if the other universes die is he still a good person?

[@MrElm0O]

Jiren has no character at all. He's a walking power level.

[@timetravelingoldman6839]

Lol

[@saloz9483]

right here. I cant even call him a character.

[@theonetruefusion8533]

Idiot he’s just a walking steroid

[@MrHwilRRR]

Owari da! :P

[@mikemarks6136]

Literally a walking mass of muscles

[@moonraven6145]

Tbh Toppo made more sense becoming the "villain" of the arc, him having to abandon his sense of Justice that he lived by, and become a God of Destruction, the very thing that he hated to have any hope of his universe surviving, granted I liked how Vegeta was the one to defeat him, he himself given up his pride and becoming Majin Vegeta in the past (although the actual fight with Jiren was pretty cool, he was just pretty weak character wise)

[@kloutgodd8585]

Not a villain he’d be an antagonists

[@moonraven6145]

@@kloutgodd8585 Yeah, my bad.

[@Katana-Kid]

Raging Raving I agree. I also feel like having Goku beat an actual GoD (even though he’s just a candidate) would have been better because DBS started with Beerus as the main antagonist, so it should end (at least for now) with a GoD as the main antagonist and Goku finally surpassing that level.

[@Katana-Kid]

King H I agree. Regardless on whether he’s the main antagonist or the second fiddle, the whole Majin Vegeta thing would of made the fight a lot better imo.

[@whoastairs9636]

He used the move/technique final explosion. Vegeta didnt become maijn again. You need babidis magic.

[@tetsuoumezawa5833]

jiren's character is that he's strong "what do you do" "strong" "what do you want" "strong" "where do you come from" "strong" "is there anything about you that isn't 'strong?'" "strong"

[@GippyHappy]

He atacc, He atacc, But most importantly, He atacc.

[@mikeexits]

Stronk?

[@Hi_Just_Fred]

Hey honey, I was thinking we could go out for dinner tonight! Is there a place that sounds good to you? "Strong." Um, wha-- *"STRONG!"*

[@luigiplayer14]

Tetsuo Umezawa I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive

[@luigiplayer14]

Ian Knight Well, Saitama actually has a personality. All they had to do was give Jiren an interesting personality to make him work.

[@corey2232]

"What people tell about the character," can go a long way. People should remember the first 1/3 of John Wick was literally just everyone shitting their pants over hearing his name, telling stories about him & bringing up past stories of his legend without him doing much of anything. And it worked wonderfully, as it showed you this guy was going to eventually make everyone's life a living hell.

[@Biohazmat21]

I was looking for this, cause it definitely worked. I think it's because we aren't given too much info about him at first, but we see his routine after he experiences the death of a loved one. We instantly understand and see that his world has changed and he's grieving. Then as we hear different people panic and talk about him, we see that he's uncovering something in the basement. There's more to this seemingly quiet and reserved guy than we were shown, and we're drawn in and ready to see how he reacts to the people who hurt him. It's not easy an easy introduction to pull off, but it shouldn't be ruled out so quickly.

[@VulcanicCloud]

The big difference is that there is still a ton of show don't tell in John Wick. Simple things like his car, his home, appearance and lifestyle shows you some hints into his character and how strong he is. We know he's an assassin, and considering how expensive his belongings look, he had to have been a pretty good one. Jiren had nothing besides his incredibly bland design. And when people like mafia leaders gush about how dangerous John Wick is, we're given far better dialogue and suspense than someone just saying "Jiren is soooooooooooooo strong".

[@nattylight512]

That’s something I don’t understand about this video. His introduction was fine and just because it wasn’t conventional or by the books doesn’t mean it’s bad. He wasn’t a conventional villain, his premise was a Hero who was participating out of obligation, he doesn’t need to be evil like a conventional villain. I still do admit that they wasted this perfect groundwork for his character.

[@corey2232]

@@nattylight512 Agreed. The didn't nail the payoffs, but the introduction and setup were perfectly fine. The legend and hype surrounding him doesnt have to come from him or what he's doing whatsoever. I still think the villain was setup to be Goku, but in the end they got cold feet and didn't follow through. They opted to change course, and it threw off the story

[@lordadamz6036]

@@nattylight512 He doesn't need to be evil, but we know NOTHING about him. Why isn't he interested? Is it because he doesn't care about the fate of his own Universe? Is it because he is overconfident that he will win? And even then, how does he feel about fighting knowing that other universes are going to get erased? If he is supposed to be a hero, he should act like one. He should have been given a bit of Toppo's personality, hating on Goku and even on the gods. Saying something like he hates them. He shouldn't be meditating calmly. He should have been furious. The exposition was weak. We should have seen him do something even before the tournament. Just 1 thing. Like save a cat, eat ramen, take a shower, let a kid get run over by a bus and do nothing to save them, getting lectured by Toppo, cosplay, look at a picture of his dead master and ripping it apart, fail at his duty as a Pride Trooper because "now that the multiverse is in peril, the Gods have shown is that the pursuit of Justice is overrated, only strength matters, I quit the Pride Troopers, see you losers at the tournament. And Toppo, even as a subsitute God of Destruction, you are WEAK!", kill a villain because he doesn't believe in justice, seeing a guy that the other Troopers had trouble catching shit his pants when hearing "Jiren is coming"... Anything would have been better really.

[@ultimatewaybig10]

Also his design looks like a template character wearing an Adidas tracksuit

[@anse1774]

🤣🤣

[@jayceallen6530]

ultimatewaybig10 lol

[@markkoetsier6475]

Think he likes hard bass?

[@usaccdecks8363]

Slavs are the most powerful fighters in the universe. Their power goes beyond your mortal understanding

[@ldobehardcore]

@@usaccdecks8363 it comes from squatting. Squatting Cuts off all circulation to legs, giving slav 2 legs worth of extra blood to use for punching with arms.

[@DonaldFromKingdomHearts]

-So, what are your character traits? -Strong -Oh.. Well, so what's your character arc like? -Fighting -Ummm that's not a...Well alright. Uh, what's your backstory? -Death -Jesus do you at least have some kind of motif in this story?? -Power

[@sanchosalipio7894]

@c that was the same thought I was actually thinking about.

[@HoughStone]

You described Dragonball Z onward.

[@nicholas3141]

Dbz characters arent complicated what i hate is how he lost he should have destroyed goku and been better written

[@NutterButter774]

In a sense that is literally Goku's backstory

[@brawlterminator]

Vergil

[@Luigi-194]

Well, the god of destruction that cheers for Jiren is literally a clown.

[@venturatheace1]

Just like his fangirls

[@NothingHere68]

Makes sense

[@Morimoto-v2l]

Who remembers the day when pilaf was actually a challenge for goku

[@Garfewloid]

I don't think he was ever a physical threat, but yeah.

[@theskieshavefallen8408]

Pepperidge Farm remembers!

[@thsam5623]

He never was

[@molotovovickow]

his castle was more like a treat than pilaf

[@Magic8ball976]

He needed piccolo’s help to beat him he would’ve lost if he wasn’t there

[@MercuryAlphaInc]

You don't like or dislike Jiren? So... You could say your feelings about him are in a... Grey area? I'll see myself out.

[@athifarif9724]

Damn, that puns almost as bad as jiren character

[@athifarif9724]

Wow, that puns almost as bad as jiren personality.

[@amberslahlize7961]

@@athifarif9724 I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive.

[@luigiplayer14]

Amber Slahlize what

[@luigiplayer14]

Amber Slahlize Imma copy & paste this everywhere.

[@jonatanp.1976]

And we can't forget that Jiren is Low Tier in Dragon Ball FighterZ.

[@Sorrelhas]

HAHA! His moveset is so dull Season 3 is fixing him with frame data and damage balancing, which is the bitch's way of staying relevant

[@nguyenthe7968]

@@Sorrelhas he's mid tier now in my opinion

[@TaroMikami]

Not anymore tho. Mid tier

[@TaroMikami]

What a fighterz character NEEDS. Ariel launcher. Multiple supers. A special skill that's an overhead. A level 5 Maybe a level 7?

[@mugen11120]

Jonatan Pedroso and on xenoverse has the worst back hit In the game

[@jessycruz2465]

Jiren is like a boss of 8bit/16bit videogames where he's just strong for the heck of it and not really explained how he got that strong.

[@donimmortal7692]

100 pushups, 100 squats, 100 situps, and a 10km run. Why they need to explain something that simple?

[@ashburch4779]

@@donimmortal7692 and plenty of juice

[@cypher838]

He is like an rpg boss that the main antagonist sicks on you in a dungeon

[@arthurdias6860]

@@ashburch4779 just ONE BANANA for food

[@zombieguy4444]

Jiren looks like if you took Freiza's buff form, removed the textures, gave it bug eyes, and stuck it in an X-men uniform that Deadpool vandalized

[@mooganify]

so... by doing a lot to it

[@zombieguy4444]

@@mooganify I thought he looked like a weird Frieza

[@ballisticsgamingcdu379]

Underrated comment

[@xtintoxm9925]

Please we don't do that here cause Jiren better if we talk about differentiation, Every Dragon ball character is like copy and past tien gohan piccolo goku all look the same

[@powerowl2120]

His design is Infuriating for me to look at. So uninteresting

[@Vitor20XX]

Jiren is just strong, only thing that he is.

[@theliedetector2199]

Personality, motivation, ideals and more. That's what makes a good character.

[@jon5310]

He has might. Might controls... Everything

[@Fishofmanyhonor]

He created great tension but his character and back story was just awful.

[@lordbiscuitthetossable5352]

Ginsai issue is even the story didn’t really respond to the tension. He destroyed a major warrior pretty easily and... well everyone hoped he would just sit down and meditate until everything was over. That didn’t seem believable to me and is pretty much as anti-climatic as it comes, in that he had pretty much zero presence unless he was slapping Goku around like a used teenagers sock. Yeah, I wouldn’t have minded the fairly bland backstory as much, if he did more then posture and occasionally blink at something. One good thing about the manga was that he didn’t spend so much time just loading around.

[@123hattan]

The story Belmond told about Jiren felt very forced. We had tens of episodes of fighting and then out of the sudden the Anime was like ''STORY TIME''. It is like Toei realised in between the episodes that they messed up and then used an emergency plan.

[@Draylin41]

It may not have really done anything that would have changed people's minds about the guy but I feel it would have been better if he just didn't have his backstory explained at all. Leave it a mystery for people to speculate over. Maybe elude to what he's about at the end when Goku has his back to a wall but never really go in depth so we'll be teased until his next appearance. Assuming we ever see him again when they get back to producing weekly episodes that is.

[@jp3813]

It wouldn't have felt forced if he actually displayed personality that intrigued the audience prior to the revelation of his past. Like some of the Juppongatana in Rurouni Kenshin.

[@psykos233]

One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.

[@MrDioXIII]

Then they had him decide to fire off at the crowd for no reason, just to make him look villainous. You can be an arrogant antisocial asshole without needing to do anything villainous.

[@KossolaxtheForesworn]

@@Draylin41 with a character as boring as jiren, it would not have really created any sort of mystery. it would have merely amplified how little he actually matters and how little they thought him out.

[@yetiornot5726]

I just realized, Jiren is Plank from Ed Edd & Eddy. He's an unmoving hunk of wood whose personality is literally what other people imposed on him. Then he started moving; that was his only difference as far as I care.

[@JonDoe-fo3kl]

Jiren is buddha no attachments whatsoever

[@sketchydude8431]

No, Plank actually has more personality than jiren.

[@yetiornot5726]

@@sketchydude8431 True; at least Plank smiled.

[@devendavis6906]

That’s a serious stretch

[@popstarchamp]

How dare you insult Plank like that.😤 But seriously, that's a perfect comparison.

[@isaiahdeleon2508]

What would’ve made Jiren more interesting, is if instead of his “friends” failing him, the Gods failed him. He prayed to them to save his family, but didn’t answer, so he went on a journey to become stronger than the very Gods he once worshipped.

[@isaiahdeleon2508]

@Majin Vegeta. We answer the call when needed.

[@Xero_Kaiser]

@Majin Vegeta Because Jiren is the blankest blank slate ever created and almost *anything* would be an improvement.

[@dabuff1319]

Jiren is a lot better in the manga who's actually a heroic and sympathetic figure. But that does not excuse toeis decision to make jiren a thicc personality lacking power wall.

[@299-x7b]

Better yet have him become a God killer to seek those who had wronged him

[@liquidsandwich1052]

@@299-x7b and he was added to his Universe's roster in the hopes that someone would actually kill him so the gods weren't facing a threat?

[@bluemew22]

"Did you enjoy Jiren's character?" What character?

[@brolysama6671]

Jirentards are going to attack you soon I bet.

[@litteshelton4812]

All I saw was a power level

[@sesereddead465]

Broly sama don’t have to be disrespectful to Jiren fans though...

[@BusinessOfFear]

@@brolysama6671 Let's not pretend there are "Jirentards". You're just hating on people who like the character.

[@wolfgod6443]

TNM says it best. Jiren has a character arc, but it only lasts two episodes. So he has a character to enjoy, and I do...but that's two episodes. Besides that, he had a plain backstory, desire to get stronger, and we know what wish he wants before the finale. Literally the bare minimum before his real character broke out for the climax.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

*_Jiren is the worst antagonist? I thought Prince Charming from Shrek 3 was the worst antagonist in anime history._*

[@Survivor-cp7gc]

His cherry flavored chapstick is a planet buster

[@damnthatsrough970]

Friendship oh please at least he had a character despite being stupid and easily manipulated

[@tang484]

@@kiranbharadia He was in both 2 and 3. The dude was literally the main villain of 3

[@pikapi2738]

Friendship I c someone watches schrafrillas productions

[@schmittfamily5045]

*BLASPHEMY!!!!!* But seriously, he should have stayed a minor antagonist.

[@witchBoi_Connor]

Uninteresting story, character, design, and abilities. He’s just “stronger than everyone else”, and is “the last of his race, and a person important to him died”. Jiren is if you sanded down all the qualities of a main character to big muscled, bald, gray character-shaped mold.

[@_Tzer]

we need af to be canon in some form cuz.... i want that bad taste out of my mouth from jiren... at least as a possible timeline in xenoverse

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@_Tzer No thanks. Dragon ball AF was just another fanfiction writing. I didn't like it anymore than Super

[@etam8099]

@@lapplandkun9273 lol Super was already pretty much a fan-fiction, a terrible one, AF was way better than Super, also just so you know not every fan-fiction is bad, apart from Super of course

[@etam8099]

@@_Tzer indeed but you need first GT to be canon in order to get AF

[@JamezP]

@@etam8099 there is a way to make GT canon but you'd need to delay AF so you can reintroduce beerus and god ki, bring piccolo back and tell some backstories so it feels organic

[@pablodarosa8429]

TOEI, Toriyama, or whoever might be the responsible for DBS missed a great opportunity in the tournament of power arc. And the saddest thing about that was that, at the begining of the arc, they stablished a very interest concept: Goku as the antagonist of the arc, or in other words, the villain of the saga. Goku was the responsible for getting every one in danger of being erased of the existance with his proposal of the tournament. Everyone was enjoying their life at their best in home with their families and friends, than suddenly, a crazy man comes up with a competition that is going to kill all of the losers, just because that crazy one likes to fight too much. That was interest and was sad that TOEI just didn't care to explore how this change of dynamic would work with Goku facing the fact that 70 fighters of 7 universes, and their gods, see him as a VILLAIN. They just didn't have the guts to do it, right after stablishing this concept, they changed their minds and set up that the idea of erasing all the universes was already made by Zeno or the father of the angels (forgot his name) and at the end of the arc, told us about the selfish nature of Jiren, to come up with a dislikeble antagonist at the very final moments. That's lazy, sad and coward. Tournament of Power could have been memorable and was just... ok... what was at least much more than the whole previous portion of the show.

[@KonEl-BlackZero]

Well yes and no, in the manga is stablished that Zeno Sama was planning to destroy most of the 12 Universes because he consider them weak, the Tournament of Power give them a chance to survive. In fact... all of them survived. But again, yes. DBS is just fanservices and powerups mashed togheter, and sadly at least to me, nostalgia is the main reason this series continues.

[@pablodarosa8429]

@@KonEl-BlackZero so in the anime they say Zeno was already planning tô Destroy the weak universes and bla bla bla. Bullshit, as I sair, they Just didnd have the guts to do a not so infatile story.

[@prometheus5218]

@@pablodarosa8429 Atleast the fights and animations were on God level. I'm satisfied with that. If I want Story I'll go watch another Anime, and not something like dragonball tbh

[@mikechrist9699]

@@prometheus5218 why cant we have good fights and story ffs?

[@combinecommando001]

@@KonEl-BlackZero Say what you will about GT, but at least it tried to be something new and unique compared to this bullshit.

[@alakae5913]

Jiren would give a way better moral dilemma to goku if they had a very similar character arc throughout their lives. It would make goku contemplate if he was really the good guy in the situation

[@cherrycoyote55]

Goku was never a good guy, is had been stated that he is more like a bad person that does good things often for selfish reasons

[@alakae5913]

Stick Nicks well if anything it would be better if jiren was just goku but with a better sense of good. And goku is kinda a selfish hero he does good things only if they would benefit himself and protect his friends

[@ryukishi07thecreator70]

@@cherrycoyote55 He's not a bad person, its been stated that he's pure hearted, he's just a bit selfish for his goal, just like every successful human being.

[@ryukishi07thecreator70]

@JJC Naruto and HxH are complex stories while DB is just fantasy, fighting and comedy like Gintama, you are asking to change a show's genre, which is stupid, you should watch other series of your preferred genre instead of trying to change others.

[@alakae5913]

Powerless Man he almost gave up his life by letting Frieza get to 100% so he puts having a good fight a little bit above everything

[@Debonairactive]

jiren was a great mystery character and then his backstory was told lol

[@psykos233]

One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.

[@SilenceStabber]

This so much... Jiren was the embodiment of a unrivaled super Alien warrior. Then Belmond had to explain Jiren is just a poor guy who can't get over the dead of his mentor and parents.

[@Debonairactive]

SilenceStabber and his followers didn’t want to follow him into battle so then betrayal made him really strong

[@lamarpray5324]

i remember when jiren through that punch at goku and demonstrated 1% of his power and shook goku out of his blue form...but they nerfed the shit out of him lol

[@Debonairactive]

Lamar Pray his betrayal strength level went down

[@genericweeb7300]

Jiren is so stronk he was able to destroy my neighbor's 40 years of happy marriage

[@Reggie_bringit]

I still like the theory that akira toriyama hated the goku vs superman deathbattle so he created his own superman and kicked his ass

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

Well, it didn't fix Deathbattle's understanding of the scaling for either character.

[@23jakesmith23]

Toriyama being mad that his own characterization traits for Goku were used against him for the Superman Death Battle is very Toriyama

[@dom2752]

If by kicked his ass you mean couldnt beat him in a 1v1

[@etam8099]

@@dom2752 pretty much

[@tragossoboy6700]

@@23jakesmith23I mean, not saying that he maybe did not made him a little bit like that, but the award for making him look even more like superman goes to the english dub

[@nativeronin1268]

Jiren isn’t an antagonist, he’s just a tournament participant

[@Paulkotsu]

This, you guys are judging him as something he's not

[@mutsuhanma7807]

Antagonists don't have to be evil, antagonists are anyone that opposes the main character. He is an antagonist.

[@INEED2GOHOMENOW]

What Mutsu said. Jiren fights against Goku, the main character, and is therefore an antagonist.

[@NM-ev7pu]

You know, Goku, the protagonist, fights Jiren, the antagonist.

[@Mr-Orange-X]

@@NM-ev7pu preach.

[@eliluscesforo2120]

Jiren shined brighter when he was being humilitied by Freeza. It made Freeza more menacing, and put more weight in Jirens conviction, seeing his entire reason to live not only shattered, but mocked

[@LegendInThaMakin]

Really? I didn’t feel that way at all. Maybe because I didn’t respect or care for friezas threats because it was ultimately extremely cowardly. He knows he could never in a million years speak to jiren that way if he was actually at full power and wasn’t taken on u7’s best fighters all at once all by himself. All I could think was, yeah you talking pretty tough after 17 and everyone else’s pretty much did all the dirty work, lol Jiren sent you into hiding for like 15 episodes.

[@brandonlyon730]

Personally I’m sick to death of Frieza at this point, the fact this the second time he was brought back is just making less and less special and is just being overused now. I don’t want to any more arcs with him, and I hope he is just erased from existence after whatever new arc they use him for.

[@eliluscesforo2120]

@@LegendInThaMakin I mean yeah, but you need to take in account the tournament is pretty much "DBZ fights and powerups" without really any kind of argument, it's pretty much just aesthetic. It's not really rememerable, but storywise it's kind of different, so there's that

[@LegendInThaMakin]

Elí Luscesforo I’m just talking about the scene specifically. All I could do was roll my eyes at it. It’s like a lion living it’s full life being king of the jungle, feared and revered by absolutely everyone and everything and near the end of its life where it’s no longer as strong or as fast, defeated after fighting 7 lions at once to protect is pride..... then frieza, some baby mouse comes out of no where starts nipping at the lions paws as he’s drawing it’s last breaths trying to act tough like he brought down the lion himself. Lmao it’s laughably pathetic. Frieza is a weak loser compared to Jiren so his threats came across as lame because we all know he would never do that to a full powered Jiren. Either way he got up and sent frieza running anyway.

[@eliluscesforo2120]

@@LegendInThaMakin oh no, I totally agree to that. It was utherly pathethic, I just have a Knack for prideful characters who get slapped in the face, and I was already fed up with Jiren, so I made what I could of that scene. It's by no means comparable to other villains or similar scenes, but in terms of character progression and sentimental change, it was better than icequeen McNoexpression

[@kratos1017]

El Hermano is a better antagonist.

[@futuf2265]

Nobody beats El Hermano except Gohan Blanco

[@kratos1017]

@@futuf2265 It's actually Gohan Calvo Blanco who can beat El Hermano.

[@futuf2265]

@@kratos1017 Oh true I forgot the new power up that El Grande Padre gave to him

[@RedRhythm_1]

@Maverick Hunter Zero that's actually true

[@STEPHxCA]

ESTO ES EL FIN

[@VanguardJester]

jiren? meet infinite. Welcome to the "I'm NoT wEaK" squad.

[@EdnaKonrad4MVS]

*Jiren's Backstory:* My family and master died, that's why I'm evil. *Infinite's Backstory:* I was always evil, but I was defeated and insulted once, that's why I'm extra evil.

[@infinite6560]

*yo*

[@kripticxtj6499]

@@EdnaKonrad4MVS shadow was created to be evil but the fact that he was created evil and not born evil really has room for character growth. It’s nice to see an evil bot turn into a semi nice guy when he needs to.

[@Breakaway-ic5gj]

@@kripticxtj6499 By Sonic 06, he is a nice guy

[@renoud4093]

Yamcha video when, the man needs it.

[@oreox1000]

I second this.

[@brandonlyon730]

Yamcha at least still exist Launch has basically been erased from existence.

[@greentoonlink]

Yamcha: The Forgotten Rival

[@florianrd9507]

That will be nice I agree

[@kaylubproductions4517]

But like... He's Yamaha, it'll just be talking about how much he sucks lol

[@SpidermanandhisAmazingFriends]

Jiren the Grey is a perfect name for the most boring character in anime let alone DBZ.

[@mugenn56]

DBS

[@SpidermanandhisAmazingFriends]

@@mugenn56 Oops, how embarrassing

[@grosslyDese2060]

Spider-Man and his amazing friends! I thought your pfp was a super sayian rage trunks lol

[@mugenn56]

@@grosslyDese2060 lmaooo

[@aquacyanide]

not really, its a really cool name for a swordsman but ok

[@EchoTheWorld03]

Yeah ok, but why does almost every Dragon Ball character has gigantic holes in their ears?

[@KidArkx]

Cause we have ear holes ...?

[@theopulentone1650]

Db seems to have 3 primary ear types. The ear holes (usually reserved for villains and aliens) Human-like, and elf ears. I use to wonder if aliens with those ear types were related, but I just chalk it up to Toriyama recycling ideas.

[@matti.8465]

@@theopulentone1650 My favourite Toriyama character design trope is the giant gem on the forehead, only Frieza, Cell and a handful of villains have it, but i always liked it.

[@mjangelvortex]

@@matti.8465 I love the gem foreheads too.

[@VegitoBlackk]

@@matti.8465 GemDomes

[@shade08538]

I once heard this interesting headcanon that, Jiren was actually the one who unknowingly killed his family and master, thanks to his own immense uncontrollable power. That *would* explain why everyone just left him and even MORE explain why in the flashback, he’s completely unharmed when his master was killed and even MORE MORE explain why the monster didn’t just kill Jiren when Jiren walked in on him in his house with his dead family lying on the floor What do you all think about it? 🤔

[@heitorzincleiton5071]

Would also explain why he hate making friends and trusting other so much, he basically kills everyone close to him

[@oscar3153]

Does his immense power also make him schitzophrenic? With his (former) friends as well who also fought this “immense power”? I guess it works if you ignore the backstory

[@callofdutychile]

How to fix Jiren: - Give him a hero treatment - Make the audience wish Jiren to win the ToP - A redemption moment for Jiren - Give Jiren a more mature reason to not Trust in anyone

[@lavemochaves6500]

and a more reasonable reason for why he is so strong

[@MentaAzul]

Yeah, but audience love Goku, so it don't matter.

[@callofdutychile]

@@MentaAzul With Broly, you didnt want him to die U6, you didnt want em to get erase

[@Ekaroth]

@@callofdutychile i wanted broly to die and U6 to get erased.

[@callofdutychile]

@@Ekaroth you are pure evil A necessary evil

[@LeBearr]

Jiren is more of an obstacle then an antagonist

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

That's literally the same thing

[@rustle495]

But they are not? In terms of stories, antagonists are characters, whose different goals and motivations make them collide with protagonists and change eachother a bit. Now, while techincally it's what has happened in Super, it has no substance. Between Jiren having no character, whole Tournament having stakes that viewers don't care about, and Goku pulling powerups out of his ass, Jiren and Goku colliding has as much weight as you crushing a beetle accidentally while walking down the street and feeling guilt for one second before carrying on. Sure, you changed eachother, but there is no meaning or substance behind it. Remember Goku vs Vegeta or Cell vs Gohan? Actual characters you cared about, with their own personalities and motivations, with arcs developed well enough for us to care and be afraid Z Fighters actually lose?

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

@@rustle495 Don't get me wrong he's a pretty shit one, but still just going of the pure dictionary definition, he is still an antagonist.

[@zeezoldyck1924]

plant Are you serious? Of course Jiren is "technically" an antagonist no one is denying that, you somehow have completely misunderstood something so simple. Jiren exists solely as something to be overcome, as he has little character. A good antagonist has actual substance and depth, and therefore doesn't exist solely just to get defeated and overcome. Jiren is just there to be a strong opponent for Goku, which is why the commenter said he is more of an obstacle than an antagonist

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

@@zeezoldyck1924 ok I misunderstood what he was saying. It seemed to me like he was saying Jiren is an obstacle and NOT an antagonist, which is what I took issue with. By no means am I defending Jiren or anything.

[@Gaming_Hub_UK]

Area 51 is not a base. It's Jiren's home and America Protects it

[@Coldcheetah]

Does that make us universe 11?

[@Gaming_Hub_UK]

@@Coldcheetah yes

[@A2Z2]

Gaming Hub wait that means we went out of existence once and was brought back

[@Gaming_Hub_UK]

@@A2Z2 now dragonball's calendar is kinda not specific like us. If u take the real the earth is 700years old so this happened around 1,300 years ago

[@bered4894]

Why does America protect it it‘s Jiren dog

[@whitworth5s248]

"Few characters in modern dragonball evoke more debate and division" Few? Oh, he means the Universe 6 Saiyans.

[@deet917]

Jiren was a plot wall plain and simple. And staring at a wall is never fun.

[@saloz9483]

@Plot made Sasuke not copy 1000 jutsu like Kakashi yea would have been nice if at least his design was good to have something memorable.

[@fatty1040]

Watching that wall beat Vegeta and Goku was the best of the tournament of power tho 🤔🤔🤔

[@jamesm2198]

@@saloz9483 I liked his design

[@SauceMcgee]

@@fatty1040 exactly my point. Then again i don't really like dbz anyways so just seeing a badass like jiren literally drag everyones ass was cool

[@moonlightgunvolt8132]

Toppo had more character with that dab son

[@amberslahlize7961]

JUSTICE! Who are you? JUSTICE! Where did you come from? JUSTICE! What do you want? JUSTICE! ...And you think I don't? YOU ARE EVIL!! ... ... So, you like fighting?? THIS ISN'T ABOUT JUSTICE ANYMORE!!!

[@ncala]

@@amberslahlize7961 Hilariously, even this incredibly abridged description has more character than Jiren. Also, Toppo has a sweet 'stache.

[@adrianisalright]

Although Jiren character is up for debate, he did bring in some of the best episodes DBS ever had.

[@L-eye-t]

Eh...Maybe animation wise.

[@maxalain9948]

From a visual standpoint? Abso-fucking-lutely.

[@jhzwwe123]

From a story point as well, imo.

[@Zerefas0]

Adrian Ellis true

[@bigcas78]

Which would have been that much better with literally any other antagonist

[@rud5101]

Jiren's design is automatically improved every time they give definition and shading to his muscles... Just look at how much better he looks in the final fight with no top. But 90% of the time they just draw him as a red and black blob. He looks like a Ben 10 character. Also, what would have been a more interesting conflict, is if during the last fight between Goku and Jiren, they both wanted to win, but were also conflicted about eliminating the other fighter, as it would result in their universe getting erased. Perhaps Frieza would have earlier been the first Universe 7 fighter to eliminate another universe. Frieza's ruthless enough to do it without a second thought. But Goku and Jiren are both supposedly heroic, and I think them having reservations about eliminating the other, but at the same time wanting to save their own universe, would've made the ending MUCH more dramatic.

[@alfa01spotivo]

nah ben 10 had great designs

[@rud5101]

@@alfa01spotivo Yeah but they look awkward if you drop them in DBZ

[@steveweast475]

@@rud5101 irrelevant, what you meant to say was that he looked like a deviant art OC from Ben 10

[@jackorton2707]

Genius

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

@@steveweast475 he looks like the fan alians that are just "Buff Guy with x color"

[@Livingroomset799Dep]

I like the idea more that he’s a symbol of absolute overwhelming strength, an unclimbable wall- the idea that Whis keeps telling Goku that there will always be someone out there stronger than you They just fucked up his backstory is all

[@Mewstafa]

I agree. He was best used as a representation of being absolute strength. His background should have remained ambiguous.

[@TactlessC]

"he's a symbol" yes a symbol of why having a character be a power level on legs is inane.

[@jacobmcneer609]

But that's not a lesson Goku needed to learn. He has known that ever since his 1st tournament in which he lost to Jackie Chun.

[@jacobmcneer609]

​@@MatthewBrown-il3ct Himself, Goku's drive comes from a need for self-betterment. Unlike Vegeta who trains as hard as he does in order to become #1, or Gohan who trains solely in order to protect Earth, Goku trains to become better than he already is. His fights are merely ways for him to test himself rather than prove himself. There's a reason why during the same 7 years of peace between Cell and Buu, Goku achieved a whole new form while Vegeta remained relatively stable and Gohan became weaker. He has never once shown a need for a reminder.

[@leongarcia4041]

You right, they done messed up his story mate ;-;

[@SnappySanad]

The only Jiren I kinda enjoyed was shirtless (losing his shit) Jiren

[@eibarman-5750]

@Samuel Coco lol IKR

[@darkwi90]

When you realise that el harmano is better antagonist than jiren.

[@itsybitsyusitka2170]

And that Gohan Blanco would've been a better protagonist than Goku.

[@mofessaduke7675]

It’s been a long time, my dimwit brother

[@psykos233]

One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.

[@a.liguria2698]

His introduction in the Cell VS fan videos was gold compared to Jiren's

[@Brando216]

Itachi 2.0

[@-Ryu]

There's nothing wrong with a character who's a large brick wall the hero must overcome. But when the character is literally a brick wall, that barely reacts in any way, they are no longer a character, they are an object.

[@leultrainstinct406]

I don’t understand. there’s so many moments that show jirens character even without him saying anything and y’all just ignore everything💀

[@F0rev3r.B0red]

​@@leultrainstinct406what moments? you're not giving examples and I've seen the Super with Jiren and this video has everything problematic with him.

[@F0rev3r.B0red]

​​@@leultrainstinct406Not to mention Hit had more screentime than Jiren and everybody forgot about him after the Tournament arc in the anime. We moved onto the Broly and Super Hero movie. And if we went back to the manga we still would've forgotten to involve him cause he's not in the recent chapter release

[@x-figure2037]

Mahito is a great example of this

[@SparkShadow212]

​@@leultrainstinct406 Moments? What moments? He put on his silent, tough guy persona right up until his fight with Goku. Even then, he was BORING. AS. SHIT. He's a brick wall with the personality to match, and any "moments" that you see are just delusions of a fanboy.

[@Khan-_-Art1st]

I actually hated Jiren when he was revealed. His design is just a lazy way to animate someone really easily. It's awful.

[@MrScaryowl]

Brow Ming wat

[@jacinto1477]

Agreed, his design is so dumb and redundant

[@Aaronthegreatest]

buu ripoff but with as few details as possible

[@Sorrelhas]

I like the idea of having the stereotypical alien as a design, but other takes on stereotypes (Buu, Dabura, Piccolo) turned out much better. Jiren is so awful

[@alucardakathebombasticbach2057]

Mighty Commander even frieza has similar but better design, I personally like Jiren but I can agree he is one of the weaker of dragon ball villains

[@MoarCheeseBirb]

Also he doesn't have a gimmick fighting style like Hit.

[@yetiornot5726]

His gimmick is: "He punches better and takes punches better than anyone". Bully for him; he's a sentient(?) fighting robot.

[@yetiornot5726]

He couldn't even do something unique like energy vines, or something special like moving faster than speed (like his allies). He is LITERALLY Superman, with all the bullshit attached. .... HOLY SHIT, IS THIS THE WRITERS' RESPONSE TO SUPERMAN VS GOKU????

[@jayesper4390]

@@yetiornot5726 So Dyspo's the Flash then? And maybe Toppo is Martian Manhunter. They're a regular Justice League almost, aren't they?

[@TormentedAngel8]

@@jayesper4390 Toppo did constantly talk about justice so you're probably right. XD

[@kookurikapooh]

He IS the gimmick

[@colereed6435]

Mark: jiren sucks, the only thing worse is broly Toei: I’ll ignore that

[@KCCTNT]

Which broly?

[@colereed6435]

@@KCCTNT yes

[@CarlJohnson-mi2zo]

I like jiren's personality, he is realistic. Dbs broly is such an autistic weirdo.

[@drankmanpls]

@@CarlJohnson-mi2zo i actually somewhat like dbs brolys character

[@kripticxtj6499]

@@drankmanpls I do to but not the original non canon one

[@andresmarrero8666]

To me Jiren was a lot more interesting when he was silent. He was ominous, mysterious, and his lack of interest in what was going on around him as well as his emotionless face made him quite scary in a primal way. A monster of power you could say, but the moment he started speaking in earnest, he just devolved into buff power obsessed baddie number 1021 and thus ceased being interesting at all.

[@xx_glo6697]

I agree with everything would u prefer him changing into a positive good guy or just stick to being a silent stoic kind of guy

[@polarisscale7030]

He still wasn't interesting when he was slient

[@spoonsrattling]

Even if it wasn't original that was slightly intimidating. But he should have been more ruthless, sacrificing his teammates so he can be in the spotlight. That kinda thing

[@greenman394]

@@spoonsrattling No, he should have been a foil to Goku. Someone who very much doesn't like fighting but does because "With great power comes responsibility" etc. A contrast to Goku, who very much lives to fight. The tournament itself should not have played into the bad vs. good guy trope, it's a fight for survival, you should expect people to do any and everything to survive.

[@spoonsrattling]

@@greenman394 thats not a bad idea. But since they seemed set on making him the villain they could have tried to make him ruthless ya know?

[@lavarball1237]

Jiren fact 101 when jiren got his driver license he taught his car how to drive

[@oceanicking8988]

No his Driver Licenses got Jiren

[@lavarball1237]

God Serena on the contrary jiren is the driver license 😭💀

[@jamelhaynes549]

Lmao

[@Ghost7065]

Jiren Facts 101; Jiren didn't drive the car, he stared it down till it move.

[@tristanfuentes5068]

@@Ghost7065 😂

[@goblined]

Jiren is the embodiment of those Brazilian character edits from salty bet.

[@ravaniphoenix5431]

If you are talking about El Hermano and Gohan Blanco, they are from Mexico

[@loosetube5417]

I hate Jiren. He's so boring. Like, Hit's whole character is "I'm a strong assassin," but he at least looks cool and has cool powers. Jiren has LESS personality, looks lame, and has no cool powers other than "I'm so tough nothing works on me."

[@mikechrist9699]

Seriously, idk how they make the MAIN "villain" looked like that. I mean if you cant make a good backstory for him just makes him look like a total badass (DBZ broly is the best example for this)

[@kripticxtj6499]

@@mikechrist9699 dbz broly was just a walking power house but looked cool and his voice for the second movie was cool. Jiren looks like a guy u see on the side walk taking a walk with a skin tight track suit on. There’s nothing intimidating about him

[@LastGenRichtofenn]

@@kripticxtj6499 Cmon man they definitely gave broly some personality. My man was evil and sadistic. Some of the things he did and said just made him all the more likable. Like remember when he said, "Is that another word for coffin?" He definitely is a walking power house but power house with at least SOME personality.

[@chair3319]

@@LastGenRichtofenn he has no personality hes just evil lmao

[@emmanuelojurongbe758]

@@chair3319 he ain't evil fool he just lost trusting in people. People like you need to watch the anime

[@ncala]

Remember when the newest movie made Broly a more compelling character in a few minutes? I do, it was great.

[@shadesnfades1246]

So you're saying if Jiren had a WHOLE MOVIE to himself it wouldn't have been the same? Stop...

[@ncala]

@@shadesnfades1246 Even a whole movie would not make Jiren more interesting. He is boring even aesthetically.

[@night-seeker666]

@@shadesnfades1246 They didn’t say *in a whole movie,* they said *in a few minutes.*

[@xtremekirby07]

you could say his nickname "The Gray" fits perfectly with him for how poorly potrayed he was.

[@peynnep6483]

did Oda plan Toriama to do that?

[@Elohist2009]

In the new season of Super, “Jiren the Gray” will return as “Jiren the White”

[@thamonito]

😂

[@dangamer8884]

Jiren and Goku are like those guys who get over pushed in wrestling and everyone hates them

[@DBZMacky]

Jiren's entire character is that he lost his character in his pursuit of power. He's _supposed_ to have a terrible personality. People give him too much flak.

[@SocraticMayhem]

DBZMacky I think you’re taking terrible as in quality instead of morally. A character with a terrible personality can be interesting when they’re compelling. I mean Frieza himself has a terrible personality morally, but many people adore him. From what this video is saying, they’re saying his personality is terrible because of quality. It’s not done well and instead comes off cheap. I myself do like Jiren but he doesn’t feel like an antagonist to me.

[@N.N01]

That's not the point at all. He didn't even lose his character. I have no clue what you're even trying to say here

[@bonbon8899]

i understood nothing that you said

[@_Seru_]

Creating a trash character on purpose is an even greater crime than creating it on accident.

[@xblade149]

No that's just shitty writing

[@Zaxizoid]

Totally not mark: The Best Dragon Ball KZbinr

[@mony6847]

True

[@Zaxizoid]

ShowTime I agree

[@1tz_dev]

Geekdom101 wants to know your location

[@jarlbalgruuf2415]

That's not saying much lol

[@MN_2003]

Discovered him under a TFS video . Such as life 😂

[@CombatFan134]

Creators: Okay, so we made Goku a god and fought gods. What's next? *Makes DBZ's One Punch Man*

[@logan6034]

CombatFan134 except he’s stronger than One Punch Man so...

[@kush7138]

@@logan6034 A cartoon is not stronger than anime story logic. And why you're ending you sentence with so? What are you some edgy teenager girl? Learn proper sentence structure.

[@shoto7948]

@@logan6034 not the point

[@logan6034]

Gatorade 1. They’re both anime, smh 🤦🏻‍♂️ 2. Because I can, so... 3. So what if I am?

[@animeamazee]

@@kush7138 your name is gatorade, you're the edgy teenager lol

[@onionboi8744]

I thought that much of Jiren's appeal was in suspense. To me, Jiren was the bomb under the table. You watch Universe 7 go through all of these fights, battle a bunch of characters and win, but you know that at the end, they are going to be fighting Jiren. Jiren's purpose was to be the explosive event that you know is going to happen, but not exactly when, or how. You know that Jiren is strong, but not how strong, only that he is stronger than any of the Universe 7 fighters. For me at least, this led to a feeling of great suspense, as you know that Jiren is going to be the final hurdle, but you have no idea how high that hurdle is going to be. You also don't know how the squad is going to interact with Jiren, the unstoppable powerhouse. I just feel as though Jiren's weakness as a character was filled in by his power as a suspense creating plot device.

[@surbhimehta526]

But as an antagonist,people like to see how the person is.Every person tells a story.Every character exhibits his/her personalities.That void husk what makes Jiren crap.Take Kira Yoshikage from JJBA for example.He is also like the bomb under the table.His identity is also creates suspense and plot device.But you know how his personality is.He is just this chill dude who wants a silent life.Check out super eyepatch wolf's video on what makes a great antagonist.

[@slickchick5811]

I thot he was boring, standing around being arrogant and saving his energy.

[@steveweast475]

you just described a brick wall

[@onionboi8744]

@@steveweast475 Exactly. He was a wall which I was unsure Universe 7 could get over :P

[@RacingSnails64]

Agreed! He offered BOATLOADS of tension and uncertainty.

[@ChasehaWing]

Jiren could have been interesting if he did something truly scary: Kick Goku out early. Goku did this so he could test his limits. He thought it would be fun. A tournament where the strongest fighters in the universe fight? Fun! Everyone stressed that this could destroy everything they love and cherish and their entire existence being erased? Whatever. So long as I get a good fight. So imagine if he does this. He fights Jiren he think he'll have a good battle and he just...loses. imagine if its even before Krillen, that GOKU was the first one of universe 7 out. Maybe Team 7 has been doing well. Goku's been in fights before this- good fights so its not disappointing, and they all knocked out universe 9 together already. So they know how serious this is. And Goku, the strong heroic Goku went all in, gave his everything...and lost. And he has to sit by the sides. Watching everyone who is WEAKER than him try and save the universe. Have him introspect. Realise he brought this on his oldest son. That he was the one so gung ho about fighting that he is the one who lead to all this universes destruction. That HE after saving the world so many times, would end up destroying it just for a good fight. And there is nothing he can do. No powering up 50000 times after "reaching his limit." No second chances. No more fun. He got his 3 or 4 good fights and now... his team has to win...or they'll lose everything. For once in his life...why not make Goku feel fear. Fear for his universe. fear for his friends. Fear for his family. Fear for them to face such odds without him. And he has no one to blame but himself.

[@a.liguria2698]

Sadly, Toriyama can't think to a decent story beyond putting Goku in the frontlines and make him ALWAYS the hero... Hopefully, if db will STILL be around after his passing (which I hope not) we'll have better writers

[@shaneyy__]

Victory for Vegeta?

[@ultrafrost-2774]

ChasehaWing that’s a very stupid idea.

[@yungmuney5903]

@@ultrafrost-2774 why?

[@ultrafrost-2774]

yung muney Because it makes no sense story-wise. The entire theme of this arc revolves around 2 things. The power of trust, and breaking your limits. His story fulfills nothing of the such. In fact, would would Goku being the first to be out achieve? How would Jiren get the well needed character development? Goku having fear is nothing new, and it has happened many times before. This wouldn’t change Goku’s character one bit, it may change his morals but that’s how far things can get. TL;DR, this comment is non-sensical because the ONLY thing that makes this comment worth reading, can be achieved through other means, or it has already happened before, which doesn’t make it special. It may seem intuitive at first, but once you read it thoroughly, the idea is very stupid. Don’t be impressed about how long this comment is. It’s just him stating a point and repeating himself over and over again. There are many other, sensible ways where you can take Goku out of the story for some time.

[@XProSuper]

EVEN TFS took a hot swing at him on their finale EP LOL

[@TheKs1387]

TFS takes a shot at everything DB tho my dude haha

[@mariofan1ish]

@@TheKs1387 They do, but it was consecutive shots. The first being during the DBcember countdown, and the second just a few days later in the cell saga epilogue. I also think they mentioned something about straight just not liking Jiren as well.

[@sirtacomaster5978]

"Oh man that's way better than the name I came up with I was thinking Jiren, yea see I thought it was boring to".

[@smt1296]

Sir Taco Master I was thinking...Jiren.

[@jpool115]

@@sirtacomaster5978 wait fuk what episode was that

[@TheNickaTv]

Jiren was great until they started doing his background work. Beforehand he was just a dude that literally didn’t talk just beat your ass with his death stare. Nobody was gonna run his fade and he didn’t show any emotion just kept a straight face mean mug. Then he started having his story told, he started communicating, and started showing emotion and it lead to his defeat.

[@psykos233]

One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.

[@a.liguria2698]

How terrible must it be if a Jiren who stayed stoic and emotionless the entire arc would've been a better character than the one we got in the last episodes ?

[@jimmyg8100]

It would still be meaningless to have him be unexplained, which is that really better?

[@ToiaSX]

No that’s basically hit I liked how they showed his story however his story was basic and shit

[@johny.echevers]

"to tell means to force characters to halt their pursuits and talk instead and at length about their...thoughts and feelings" -My hero aca has entered the chat

[@vandalic8566]

what

[@johnsoapmactavish9921]

Especially Season 5, I honestly don’t get how MHA is even considered good when it’s recent episodes are mostly flashbacks and generic shounen dialogue

[@rayhanakram9912]

Just caught up with the Super manga yesterday. That old ass magic donkey guy is so much more intriguing that Jirin.

[@gokuformanvsfood]

"That old ass magic donkey guy" man what a time to be alive I never thought I'd read a description of a DragonBall villain like that lol

[@rayhanakram9912]

@0ddMonk3y perhaps you should've just scrolled passed without replying.

[@rayhanakram9912]

@0ddMonk3y you really make it your business to ruin jokes don't you

[@lilskwid4432]

Jiren would've been 100 times better if he had won the tournament of power but Goku changed Jiren's mind and Goku's influence on Jiren made him use the wish to bring all of the universes back

[@bakedturkeys2132]

Yeah, and it would've been good world building to experience being erased from existence through the Universe 7 character's perspective.

[@ZambonieDude]

+Nathan Cannon Fuck.. That's actually pretty good.

[@xcorism1113]

this would work great for a plot twist..

[@shane_vq]

Dude that's what I been think the whole time

[@abusivepucho748]

@@shane_vq me tooooo! i just never commented it

[@Godzilla00X]

One thing I will always love about Jiren is that he doesn't transform or have some giga hidden full power form, he's strong as is

[@Manfromthenorth0551]

I still don't hate Jiren. And I see his heel turn at the end as him at his breaking point. For so long he must have thought that nothing could best him, that no one could threaten him. Then Goku comes along and shatters that. It breaks him and in that moment he is fueled by rage that his perception of himself is gone. So he attempts to kill Goku's friends to reaffirm his belief in himself. Everyone has a breaking point, everyone flies into a rage at some point in our lives. Even if that rage is far beyond our normal demeanor. And we do or say things we don't mean.

[@jhzwwe123]

Beautifully said and that's exactly what made me disregard jirens one dimensional back story. The heel turn was needed and imo, done right

[@Katana-Kid]

Matthew Hilliker I think his character wasn’t the problem, but how his character was executed.

[@minimonkeymasher8888]

If he's stronger than Belmont, why did he even participate? Goku wasn't stronger than Belmont, and he wouldn't have been if Jiren didn't fight him. Toppo wouldve been able to steamroll most of the competition, anyway. Base Form or not.

[@Chrono_Mitsurugi]

Wonderfully said. That would be amazing, IF Jiren was an interesting character.

[@naturalbiggie]

@@minimonkeymasher8888 you do realize that's the dumbest thing i've heard yet right? "why would you put your strongest fighter on the team?" BECAUSE HE THE STRONGEST lmao not putting him on the team would've been a dumber mistake

[@mechajay3358]

It comes down to us learning everything about him in the _last few episodes of the TOP Arc_ At that point it was too late to get invested in his character and his motivations, Plus his backstory was so underwhelming that you don't care. Say what you want about the Super Manga's verison of the TOP and how it turned out, but at least they took the time to show us Jiren actually doing something, showing some of his personality, and making his motivations clear and understandable.

[@saiyanscaris6530]

i feel liek the tournament of power just wasnt a good arc no matter which version you went with. the anime was too long and boring while the manga was too short and everyone gets sent out easily by kale of all things

[@xSilentZeroXx]

​@KingOne Oh yeah, he's the perfect final antagonist for Dragon Ball because he is a boring, characterless power level with legs. What a wonderful thing to say about this series you supposedly love. A good villain in ANYTHING, Dragon Ball included, needs to, AT THE BARE MINIMUM, give you a reason to want to see them be defeated. If there is no drive to actually defeat them, then there is really no palpable tension or conflict, and the fight scenes are as lifeless and forgettable as they were in the Goku Black arc, where whoever won every fight was very noticeably decided by the plot and nothing that the viewer could actually follow. But damn, at least there was actually some kind of general conflict going on there. How about this. Let's make a new show, called Dragon Ball Hyper. The entire show is just Goku and Vegeta fighting each other in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber indefinitely. According to you, that show would be WONDERFUL, because it's just two really strong guys with no real motivation to fight each other beating the shit out of each other for no reason whatsoever, which is what Dragon Ball is APPARENTLY all about and the show is at its best when it does exactly that. Yeah, you're fucking stupid. I'm not even sorry.

[@saiyan_og9678]

saiyan scaris I have to disagree. I prefer the anime version cuz while it was real long there were a lot of moments I thought were awesome like the Roshi episode, Top beating on Frieza, the Vegeta scenes, Jiren vs Goku, etc

[@mechajay3358]

@@saiyan_og9678 Agree to Disagree

[@WildWombats]

I liked the idea where Jiren saw his parents and mentor die, and not only that, but Zeno erased his universe and by some stroke of luck or misfortune, however you view it, he was in another universe and survived or escaped. He bore resentment and grew cold and began to think friends didn't matter after everyone he once knew disappeared. He became resolute in believing ultimate strength was the only way to make things happen. Now that is a much deeper story with more meaning....

[@myevili]

I like to think of Jiren as Goku if Goku's never had the dragon balls. What would Goku's personality be like if the death of his friends were permanent?

[@tristanfuentes5068]

He would be dead since nobody could bring him back

[@MillenniumEarl014]

Don't use logic because the average DBS fan doesn't have enough brain cells to process that.

[@chazprower16]

The tournament of power reminded me of a kid smashing his action figures together going bang pow pew pew

[@jaikthesnake6285]

I personally liked having a non-villain antagonist for once

[@cherryb0ng]

but we don't get what his motivation is.

[@GippyHappy]

Yeah too bad he isn't a character

[@Vojou345]

But that's the problem. It's the lack of character devolpment. Nothing wrong with having an anti hero but without any development then said hero is boring.

[@glacierfruits5350]

Me too man, I even liked how he didn't do anything for ages. Made me feel like he didn't see anyone else as worthy, which I'd say reveals arrogance which is character. Plus he was the ace in the hole for a whole universe, the PRIDE troopers kept saying how they want to save jiren for last so it makes some sense. I won't deny his backstory was absolute dogshit and he didn't fulfill some standard roles for antagonists. But I felt that was actually one of the strengths of the arc, there were so many characters that anything lacked by one was made up by others; which allowed us to have characters that break from cliche. We had toppo to abandon his beliefs, frost/frieza and half the gods of destruction for shady dealings, ribrianne for... well, far too long and 17 for the underdog becoming the straight MVP. Sorry for the paragraph but I liked most of the arc :')

[@milboxr9772]

Except he basically was a villain near the end trying to even kill gokus friends, so idk wtf your talking about

[@Arbal3st]

I can only describe Jiren as "Pro Wrestling Booking - The Character". He's the end game, the main event. But this is only established because other characters we are familiar with are given huge power creep (the rub) only to be immediately jobbed to Jiren.

[@thorn_lekoh]

It was a shame to see how poorly they told Jiren's story, because they actually had some elements that would've made him a great character. It was never developed beyond one or two lines, but he was imagined as a mirror to Goku, Jiren IS the Goku of Universe 10 (was it 10?), he's the savior figure, the strongest fighter and the one the other characters look up to. The difference is that Jiren eventually lost everything and became convinced that when he cares for people, those people can be in danger, and that makes him weak, so in order to protect people, he has to become strong by himself. It draws a parallel with Goku, because we can ask ourselves "Would've Goku turned out the same if he didn't have the Dragon Balls to resurrect all the friends he lost along the way?" Krillin died to King Piccolo, Yamcha and Ten Shin Han to the Saiyans, Vegeta to Frieza, at the end of the day Goku would've been just as alone as Jiren if he didn't have Shenron.

[@thundergod9696]

Goku wouldn't even exist without shenron after the raditz fight

[@minhvu3116]

Jiren is Universe 11's god of destruction's candidate. Universe 2 and Universe 11 are twin so no, Jiren is NOT the Goku of Universe 11

[@minhvu3116]

@Legendary Goku oh right i forgot. he's stronger than toppo but don't wanna be god

[@Origami84]

"Your antagonist must be able at striking your character's main weakness" - i like this advice. I'll try to apply it in my story....

[@HellecticMojo]

Things are a mess when Sherlock is portrayed as a positive character study.

[@RebornLegacy]

Way to miss the point. He was showing a single example of good character development: not praising the series as a whole.

[@HellecticMojo]

@@RebornLegacy But Sherlock has no good character development, it's one of many reason why that show is garbage. Sherlock isn't even smart, he just waves hands and clues and answers come to him off screen. Moriarty keeps on flipping back and forth between a psychopath gay stalker to a man who can coordinate events after his death. Watson spends the entire series contributing nothing and getting told that Sherlock is smart while not being part of any actual investigations

[@HellecticMojo]

@NightHawk92 There are better adaptations worth following, better series worth defending. A show that has an episode dedicated to making fun of it's confused audience while sowing the seeds of confusion in the first place with no answers is a badly written show with extra degree of pettiness behind it as well. It fails as a crime procedural, going into an ever increasingly ridiculous scenarios where suspension of disbelief is stretched after every season finale. It fails as a character study, reducing the entire cast revolving around Sherlock with an obsession where Watson contributes nothing but is exposition dumped. It fails as a mystery as it blatantly refuses to show clues that would be relevant in a mystery while piling more and more unanswered question each episode and season instead of resolving them.

[@HellecticMojo]

@NightHawk92 Do cardio, invest wisely, eat well, not defend Sherlock. You know, good stuff in life.

[@dercrysisbz2049]

@@HellecticMojo how about you stfu

[@superbobcat612]

OK so now we've covered Goku, Vegeta, Broly, Gohan, Frieza, and EVEN JIREN. But where's... YAMCHA?!

[@superbobcat612]

Honestly though, one of these videos on Gero would be really cool since he is probably the most human villain in Dragon Ball with relatable motives. MasakoX made a great video explaining why this is titled "Why Doctor Gero Is So Weird".

[@blksmagma]

@@superbobcat612 We need someone to acknowledge the fact that a human scientist created an INFINITE KI BATTERY just to kill one man. And it gets no use for anything other than modifying some delinquents.

[@MacenW]

The Underrated Protagonist

[@dorreview3336]

You mean ex-Bulma?

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@superbobcat612 I like Dr. Gero because he subverts the Shonen formula of constantly introducing most powerful villains. It made the villain more human since he wasn't just a raw power obstacle and it made Super Saiyan and the entire arc leading up to it more special it wasn't made obsolete after just one arc like so many other Shonen power-ups. It really felt like our characters had grown.

[@Maeno34]

I mean they did deliver on that him being strong part.

[@yaqbulyakkerbat4190]

Know what would have been a good ending to that arc? universe 7 losing to Jirin at the very end. Yet the fighters and fight itself having had such an impact on him that he makes 17's wish on the balls after learning there is some appreciation for life. THAT'S character development and a comfortable plot twist.

[@bitchycow9733]

Lol jiren did disappointed me i expected more from him as a character...good video btw

[@Microsoft-Excel-2010]

Honestly I expected nothing from Jiren and still I was disappointed.

[@97EDUB]

Vilma Veliz Like what? A better background story.

[@bitchycow9733]

@@97EDUB yea bit also just his overall character i guess :p

[@bitchycow9733]

@@Microsoft-Excel-2010 lol

[@saiyan_og9678]

Vilma Veliz I highly recommend u read the manga. I think you would like him more as a character

[@linesangus9069]

I never watched it. But it seems that the issue with the arc itself is the need for an Antagonist. To be honest, Jiren having the SAME ideals as Goku would be the most compelling. A character who is fighting tooth and nail for his own Universe, his own family, perhaps one of his underlings could be a son or brother. Dragonball would finally have an Arc that CANT be solved by achieving another power level and continuing the trope. It's what Goku needs: An antagonist that isn't evil. Both Jiren and Goku, with all their might and strength, would have to come to the conclusion that to save some, others must die for them to win, that to be the hero they would also have to be the villain; and that would test their morality. It could even be part of a huge action sequence. Jiren, and Goku, showing off all of their tricks, one upping eachother, until as the battle reaches it's most desperate, with them tearing and depleting each other, they realize they are both fighting for the same thing, and they realize that the true antagonist is a pair of cruel gods who have manipulated them into threatening to destroy another indivdual's universe, simply for enjoyment. They could either have a gotcha and have the gods say that was the whole point and that it was to teach Goku and Jiren that not all battles can be one by reaching a new level of power, or they could just have Jiren and Goku both achieve their pinnacle, and turrn it on the gods in an act 4 where both universes team up against them. But Jiren hating life and being a generic villain with no motivation is, like you indicated, pretty weak. Jiren NEEDED to be a family man. Honestly, he needed to be a character the audience rooted for. A likable character who was funny and charismatic. The best villains usually end up as one of Goku's friends. Goku takes the adage of "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" and misunderstands it as "forcibly make friends with your enemies".

[@djbubblegum9975]

Wow, now I really wish this is how Jiren was written. You've made an excellent concept in this comment, I hope a future antagonist is like this someday

[@omnipotiscience7251]

You could also add to the fact that while Goku had the luxury of Dragon Balls while Jiren did not.

[@markmorales7958]

At least the Manga had SOMETHING for Jirens “Character” to be a bit more “engaging” than how the Devs at Toei did for him, yet they’ve screwed it up at the very last second of the “Arc”.

[@ImInLoveWithBulla]

The first time we’re introduced to Kahseral, he’s saying he can’t save the universe because he’s busy saving a cat. He should have had a bigger role. Not overwhelmingly strong, but the smartest and most crafty of the PTs. He should have been the 17 of their universe.

[@elijahblast7548]

Jiren really isn’t a character he’s basically a machine than can make noises and punches really good and has the *literal* most basic classic stereotypical anime backstories in history

[@Thecolorgreen]

Nice meme but no

[@succubastard1019]

​ volcanosumit Except it kind of did because Goku partially achieved Mastered UI by thinking about his friends.

[@brandonlyon730]

Wouldn’t that also describe Cell, minus the basic backstory?

[@elijahblast7548]

Brandon Lyon Cell at least had somewhat of a personality

[@brandonlyon730]

Yeah, even though I’m not a fan of the cell arc, Cells snarky personality at least allowed me to make it through it. Jiren definitely need something. What I will give credit to the Manga version, it gave him somewhat of a personality, he’s a lot more heroic and has since of honor and justice in a very Superman way. He might act like a bit of a cliche hero yeah but it’s at least something compare to being just a static loner. It’s about the only thing good in TOP arc in the manga, the rest was rushed garbage.

[@borticus101]

They should have combined jiren and Toppo. A super strong but quiet warrior motivated by justice, until he realizes he might lose and abandons everything he valued to become the next God of Destruction.

[@sswagbio3937]

Jiren is ET on steroids.

[@infinityhand6569]

He got big as fuck just in case the FBI tries pulling another raid on him

[@johnanimelord]

@@infinityhand6569 Bro, XD

[@yurikuki]

LMAO

[@krush333]

He's more of a "grey" alien you see in UFO cliches

[@MegamanK284]

LMFAO

[@yeahitsscott]

This video basically explains why I dislike the Universe Survival Arc as a whole.

[@JohnHill]

Very interesting. Oddly enough when you explained the flaws in the plot, I enjoy the idea of writing that’s different for the sake of it. They’ve clearly written plot lines that were inspired by the story writing themes you pointed out, so I think this awkward story line was intentional, which to me, is exciting.

[@Half4Harfi]

Of all places i did not expect to see John Hill in the comment section of a dragon ball video... .....and just when I thought he couldnt get any cooler.