SF4 Seth was Very Poorly Balanced

[@17thknight]

Block? Eating ultra Jump? Eating ultra Focus? You're eating ultra. Armored move? You're definitely eating ultra. Unblockable ultra that is specifically anti ultra? Believe it or not, eating ultra

[@FuriousMaximum]

Well, Seth Ultra 1 wasn't unblockable but ...man... you do anything else with anyone else, eat Ultra...

[@joerodriguez5622]

Straight to Ultra

[@randallflagification]

Try and touch Seth’s beard… oh you better believe you’re eating an Ultra

[@FuriousMaximum]

@@joerodriguez5622 Go to Ultra. Do not pass "Go". Do not collect 200 dollars. Go directly to Ultra.

[@v0idvice640]

Let your opponent pick Seth? Just eat the Ultra.

[@micshaz]

good lord i forgot Seth had yoga sniper.... you just unlocked horrible PTSD in me

[@anjoLas]

yoga snipe - LMAO

[@pmf026]

in vanilla GFWL PC version it was a fucking nightmare for real. @@anjoLas

[@sethrice4074]

I actually completely forgot he ever had that. I don’t know anyone that uses Seth and I didn’t play against him enough online so I never really noticed by the end of the games life 😆

[@micshaz]

as soon as i saw that jumping attack animation at that speed i curled up in a damn ball and started crying..... but to be fair the sagat DP FADC combo didn't help either.

[@craigford33]

Bro. I mean this. And with my whole chest. Fuck OG Seth.

[@emperormegaman3856]

9:30 That montage of everyone desperately trying to do something, only to be absorbed is the definition of despair.

[@notimportant3033]

One must imagine Ryu countering Seth's Ultra 1

[@justingoers]

These were the days when capcom was still publicly stating that some characters were supposed to just straight up be better than others. So glad things moved to a more competitive balance.

[@Glickstick]

except they did this with luke two games in a row. "he's the new flagship character he's gotta be top tier". mostly jest but wtf capcom

[@GeneralUile]

I respect it. Enforcing the lore through busted characters

[@GamingCentralTV1]

​@Glickstick luke is not overpowered in sf6. He isnt even the best character in the game. Now SF5 Luke on the other hand.....

[@Glickstick]

@@GamingCentralTV1 top 2 is good enough for my strawman

[@HeirofDacia]

​@@GlickstickLuke ain't top 2.

[@LolaliciousSmiley]

Bad Balance: SF4 Vanilla Seth

[@iam._miah45]

Baf has 24 hours to respond.

[@absynth0]

Does anyone else think this game still looks good? I always remember this game being ugly but whenever I come back and I see it in motion it looks great. Really stylized and artistic

[@pastorofmuppets9346]

Depends on the character

[@innoc4063]

I think this game looks better than SFV. Even though SFIV models are *probably* less polygons than SFV models, the art direction of IV compensates by emphasizing shadows, hence the iconic shaded look. Everything in V looked kinda... raw and flat. On the bright side, I think VI has much better art direction than V.

[@troytheboy1985]

It's the art style

[@tcchip]

@@innoc4063 also in SFIV you could change the art style with an ink, watercolor or poster color look. SFIV is a game that's aged fantastically. The only thing I dislike are the silly flame effects on the Ultra gauge when it's full, and the warmer white balance that leaves a yellowish tint on everything.

[@Jinrai]

A couple things you didn't mention about Vanilla Seth. One, his divekick had much faster startup, almost as oppressive as 2I Akuma. Two, his stomp was active for the whole jump and had a wider hitbox, which made corner stomps after Lightning Kick much easier to connect.

[@fodolocraigo8426]

Whats 2l?😊

[@Jinrai]

@@fodolocraigo8426 Street Fighter 3 Second Impact

[@griffintravis8506]

​@fodolocraigo8426 street fighter 3 second impact

[@GuyrillaBraun]

Seth feels like a boss character from an old fighting game that they allowed to be playable in tournaments

[@billymays313]

I mean... he was a boss character and sf4 is old and he was in tournaments

[@HeraldOfOpera]

To be fair, his playable version has halved health taking him from the tankiest to the least tanky. They changed nothing else.

[@Anomaly188]

@@HeraldOfOpera Lowest health is hardly a drawback when you have near infinite pressure and vortex potential.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

​​@@Anomaly188real, just look at Gouki/Akuma

[@HeraldOfOpera]

@@Anomaly188 Sure, but it shows that they made at least a token attempt at balancing him relative to his boss incarnation.

[@Ginsufe]

"i wonder how they balanced the yoga thing" *they removed the move entirely* You know something is broke when the balance change to fix it is to just get rid of it lmao.

[@MuiltiLightRider]

Akuma, Seth and Sagat were the trinity of Vanilla SF4. All of them were absolute menaces and we didn't even discover their true potential before Super came out

[@tiradegrandmarshal]

Vanilla Gen was pretty busted, too.

[@kickasscowell5654]

How was Gief in vanilla? He seemed solid in the other versions

[@MuiltiLightRider]

@@kickasscowell5654 Gief was really good. Especially because EX green hand knocked down. But he got mauled by Sagat, Akuma, Seth and to some extent, Ryu. So it was hard for him to do well in tournament because of those horrendous matchups

[@kickasscowell5654]

@@MuiltiLightRider Ah makes sense. I remember hearing he was really solid ina vacuum, but yeah having 2 zoners being super strong. I wonder what changed between super, AE and ultra for Gief

[@chocobo1]

I love Seth's design so much, some moves he outright steals (e.g. Dhalsim fierce, sonic boom etc) and some moves he has his own twist on e.g. quarter circle back kicks is an improved Chun li kicks, SPD is improved gief pile driver, his shoryuken having to be mashed 3x (I always thought this was because it was combining Ryu/Ken/Akuma). Move clone characters can often feel really generic but I think they did an amazing job with Seth. There is the common "broken" vanilla SF4 stuff (Rufus snake strike, Sagat, vega overhead not working etc) but I think Cammy is really interesting. Usually placed bottom 3 in tier lists, but she has TKCS which is super broken for her, we just didn't realise it at the time.

[@LumaTo]

So I had no idea about the tyranny of Seth because our local Seth player couldn't figure out El Fuerte's 50/50 run game. .... And guess who always matched up with them in locals?

[@Kalulosu]

Gotta love the look of horror on you when you do the DP FADC HK ultra on Seth and literally 80% of his HP disappears into the ether

[@HeraldOfOpera]

To be fair, that's Seth's low HP as much as his high power. He has something like half the health most characters have, not that it helps when they can't hit him.

[@danielwilliams2096]

Yeah Seth had 700 hp while majority of the cast had 1000 hp, hugeeeeee difference

[@Mucmaster]

Its so funny that vanilla street fighter 4 Vega existed in the same game as Seth, Sagat, and Akuma

[@jman2050]

I somehow never realized through the entire life of this game that, after vanilla, Seth can’t ultra at all with a fireball on screen. It was actually shocking seeing all the situations where fireball+Ultra just wins.

[@jjjj8644]

You forgot the detail that his teleportation had 0 frame time recovery. You can use it very quick in sequence, like the final boss version does in the history mode

[@HeraldOfOpera]

They took the final boss, halved his HP, and changed nothing else. Being overpowered was pretty much intentional.

[@BigWillTheMill]

As a Gief main, you opened the video giving my PTSD with both Seth and Sagat. Those MUs were SO BAD in vanilla SF4 - they were like friggin 9-1, all I could do with Gief was hope to land a jumping M headbutt twice for dizzy.

[@zzymyn]

I’d love to see someone make an SF4 tier list with edition select ON. Take the best version of every character and see who’s the most broken.

[@blackyeti5925]

i agree

[@steamyrobotlove]

I remember the god Poongko dominating tournaments with this character back in the 2010s. Those were some crazy good times.

[@KenjiAsakura09]

Poongko the Shirtless

[@Batman1084CK]

Better than SF6... :)

[@RancorousSea]

Angry Now

[@kingbreaker19]

Being able to OS the FADC was nuts. You could do jab, short, or any chain into delay uppercut to catch people teching, cr. teching,....doing anything. And it was safe.

[@absynth0]

Seth in sf4 is maybe my all time favorite fighting game character. He was extremely fun to watch (poongko) and just by picking him you could feel the fear of your opponent. I never got the hate for the characters design either. Love the glitchy jank animations he has - the unnatural, robotic looking ex dp and the invisible lightning legs are so cool. Not to mention the fact he is a giant naked buff man for comedic relief.

[@kingstaze9696]

He looks absolutely sick! Can't imagine hating his design.

[@LungDrago]

I think he looks cool and is fun to watch as well, but the problem is that he is not fun to play against, to be honest. There's very little counter play to him apart from just guessing better. And then some characters really lack the tools to fight him, so they just have to take his bullshit and hope the Seth does a huge mistake.

[@yayo4478]

There was no fear from seth thats why nobody really picked him…how many seth players do you see in tournaments…you named the only one

[@k3rr3k]

His jumping heavy kick and jumping light kick both can cross up and were both extremely ambiguous. Some characters you could tell which side pretty easily but not with Seth. Also, you could toe tap someone in the corner and still wall jump to escape if blocked so he had even more mixups than covered in the video. Jumping medium punch was a great air to air that allowed a juggle combo too. I guess this is about SF4 Seth specifically but even with all the nerfs up to AE the addition of Ultra 2 gave even more anti-air/fireball and chip options.

[@JakeTheJay]

This is literally the final boss character unlocked without any nerfs. It's truly terrifying and I have many memories of getting my ass handed to me by Seth as a kid

[@HeraldOfOpera]

I'd argue that having half the health of the average character when the boss version matched the highest qualifies as "any nerfs". It's not ENOUGH nerfs, but it's there.

[@aaronusher9944]

It's your videos that made me sink 200+ hours into the street fighter 30th anniversary edition:) worth it tho in all honesty

[@legreedysqueegee]

A few notes about Seth. 1. Seth is still very overpowered in Ultra Street Fighter 4. He was better in Vanilla because of Yoga Sniper and U1 out of Sonic Boom, but that is all he lost; everything mentioned in the video he can still do. Even Elena has her bad matchups but not Seth. 2. Ultra 1 is still the best Ultra in the entire game. The damage is higher than most ultras for what it can do, once Seth has U1 you cannot zone AT ALL. Mostly because U1 is full screen and SAFE on block because of pushback, the only practical punish I could find for it is Rolling Thunder (Dudley U1) and Jaguar Revolver (Adon U1). There are probably like 4 more moves that can punish this thing from far mid screen... but it's limited. Some situtations Seth can still move depending on which character he's against because some characters really can't even come close to punishing this Ultra. And even then it can combo off almost anything if you want to use this ultra incorrectly. 3. Seth has an Ultra 2! Is it overpowered? Absolutely not, it is inferior the U1 and is one of the WORST Ultras in the game. It's an anti-air that doesn't work. You can combo into it, but the damage is identical to the U1. Super Street Fighter 4 introduced U2 so that's why it's not in the video. 4. Mr. Crofts, you forgot the main reason Seth was so overpowered with stomps, and still is overpowered. You looked at the corner stomp for one second, but it needs to be addressed more. An average non meter Seth combo in the corner is around 400 damage. That is A LOT, the reason Ultra combos are irrelevant for him is because his basic combos deal more damage. And not only do his stomp combos in the corner deal 400, but he can move after the divekick... he has a cross up that guarantee leads to stun and he literally took the round after a total of 2 combos. 5. It doesn't matter that Seth is a glass canon, he deals more damage than everyone else. At least with Akuma, there are times where he has good damage; but there are lots of situations where you would rather play Ryu than Akuma. Not the case with Seth. He can focus attack out of sonic boom and the damage is off the rails, you've addressed what he can do on block but he has ridiculous scenarios on hit as well. His only real weakness is a lack of a 3 frame poke, which is negated by a 3 frame SPD and his 4 frame poke is actually pretty long. 6. His jump is too fast, he stole Blankas jump (which is apart of his amazing mix up game). Infact, it's so fast if you play Seth online; his divekick will out right beat anti-airs. Obviously online shouldn't count when putting into a characters strengths, but if you're one of the 300 playing this game and want a big PP score fast; pick this guy. Not to mention he has no doubt the best dash in the game, it's not long recovery like Makotos but it reaches the same distance at the same time 7. He wins against everyone, he doesn't have a bad matchup because he has an answer to everything. The only characters that have an average matchup are; M.Bison, C. Viper, El Fuerte, and Dudley. These characters are all designed to annoy characters with reads and have good enough pressure, but don't rely on it. So there is nothing to worry about if Seth leaves. Seth has more 7-3/8-2 matchups than 5-5. 8. Street Fighter 4 is known for being hard with execution, but Seth is actually one of the easiest characters to play. His timing is not strict at all, literally ANYONE can pick up Seth and win. The Seth player has to put nothing into wins while the person going against Seth has to be on their A Game. EDIT Note: You go into detail about his SPD, which isn't even his best move. It is by far Sonic Boom. Sonic Boom is an overpowered move, Guile has the most busted projectile in the game... there is a catch. This and flash kick are his ONLY specials, and he has to hold back to release this projectile; Guile has an overpowered move, but he has to crouch still or move back into the corner to use it, that is how you make a strong move. Seth's sonic boom is a QUARTER CIRCLE, NO CHARGE NEEDED. It's not only faster than sonic boom but it can come out faster, the only drawback is 1 MORE FRAME on startup and 2 MORE RECOVERY FRAMES. That's it, for all of SF5 players, this is why Luke's sand blast was so busted, the flaws were so miniscule for a major buff. Do you know why Dhalsim has Yoga Fire? It's so he can throw his limbs out without worrying about other projectiles, it's designed to clash and nothing else. Yoga Fire is a TERRIBLE projectile, worst one in the game easily; it has more recovery frames than Seths Sonic Boom, Yoga Fire doesn't travel full screen either, and it's REALLY SLOW. Yoga Fire is bad because Dhalsim has stretchy limbs, he needs a projectile; but a bad projectile works for him. If Dhalsim isn't careful, he dies. Not Seth because he can zone just like Guile AND Dhalsim. To make this all worse, his health was buffed since vanilla. : ( it makes me very sad.

[@mgc9965]

How come there wasn't that many Seth players competitively? I think I only remember Poongko during when SF4 was on tourneys.

[@legreedysqueegee]

@@mgc9965 maybe it was because not everything was discovered with the character, but I don't think that's the reason. Almost everyone was viable so competitive was very diverse. And most players stick to one playstyle and usually main a character that defines how they like to play. So picking an everything character that constantly changed how you play felt pointless and complicated, Seth really does have too many options. Why didn't literally everyone play Evil Ryu? There was a time when his health was very close to what normal Ryu had; You got an overclocked shoto and you really couldn't say he had a flaw. The reason Yun had so much playtime when he came out was mostly because he had exploitable plus frames. Seth usually has to end his strings early with a mix up; most players just like it when they get to pressure. Do you remember what Cammy was like when SFV? 5 medium punches before she has to close back in? I usually don't like the term "scrub" but literally anyone could use Cammy and peak. You had to block and guess correctly for 10 seconds on average. Yun was the same, there was no point in picking anyone else when there was this brain dead atrocity. You couldn't eye pros at the time with less experience because they blended in with any other Yun. Seth is super easy, but he isn't unga bunga braindead like Yun was. Ultra comes along, Yun is in a perfect position.... And a new team comes in and adds 5 characters that were intentionally the best at their trade. 1. Poison - best zoning 2. Hugo - Makes T.Hawk pointless, but it was still hard to get in compared to Zangief so he was forgotten. He is also a tank hybrid 3. Decapre - best mixups, used to be top tier; but people figured out exploits to her 4. Rolento - best rush down 5. Elena - best neutral Note: Elena and Rolento are also amazing with mixups. but Decapre could it anytime. The new 5 characters were meant to highlight one playstyle and do everything else just fine ,why play someone with several changing playstyles and no true playstyle when you could pick a character with an almost overpowered trait that can do everything else decently, Seth is the only better zoner than Poison, Poison had a better projectile than Guile and had better frametraps with her projectile... she could zone and pressure with one move, I am talking about -3 to +7 on block. And yeah, the new Ultra characters are also very easy; there was drama at the time on how overpowered Rolento Roll was. LowTierGod was a high rank player because of this busted move.

[@LungDrago]

@@mgc9965 Well, I personally don't think Seth is an easy character to play, contrary to what the essay above says. Execution is not everything that makes a character easy. Seth has every tool one could possibly need apart from a 3 frame jab, but as a player you need to make the correct decisions and make the best use out of those tool, while remaining unpredictable. To make matters worse, Seth doesn't make it easy to learn since he is very much a glass cannon and any single mistake can cost you the round. Seth is very good, but he takes dedication to play, makes for a poor 'pocket' character and it's true that there is no shortage of competitively viable characters in SF4, so I think most players just didn't bother with Seth because they could afford to.

[@anjoLas]

You sir, just made my day with this video. I play USF EVERY SINGLE DAY and for me, to see, SF4 mentioned on your channel is pure gold. Hats off to you.

[@HumbleHurricane]

You are a man after my own heart💯 SF4 us all I've played since during the entire SF5 era....granted I haven't played in over a year 😅 but still. SF4 is and will always be my $hit🙌🏿💯🔥

[@DanNguyen-ey5tw]

Poongko's Gamble Seth was one of the best things i have ever seen in SF4.

[@uberculex]

One thing he didn't mention that HEAVILY skewed the gamble in Seth's favor is Seth's EX DP had much more invincibility than other DPs on block you could FADC after the second blocked hit but on hit you couldn't FADC after the second hit. This led to EX DP option selecting FADC only on block meaning three meters was a 100% free mixup where anything besides block and backdash was EX DP punished and block was FADC'd into huge frame advantage.

[@bigbangbot-SuperSqank]

Akuma was also a nasty character in vanilla SF4 who could be argued as the best. Dude did so much stun and damage on everything. I think crouching HK even caused a hard knockdown. I don’t remember all the specifics but I know that he was quite deadly. There were also a couple more things to note about Seth’s ultra. The first thing is that less characters in Vanilla had anti fireball ultras. There was only one ultra for each character in vanilla and numerous characters just didn’t have an anti fireball ultra. Because of this, this meant that there were characters who basically had zero good anti fireball options and that made zoning more powerful. Sagat became worse after vanilla not just because they reduced his damage/stun but also because the cast just had better tools to deal with his fireballs. So with all of this in mind, that only made Seth’s incredible anti fireball ultra (and his strong anti fireball tools in general) even more overtuned relative to the cast. Another thing is that in Vanilla SF4, I believe there was an unblockable ultra trap. Basically, you would knock the opponent down and then you would throw a fireball and do an ultra. This would make the ultra unblockable which is as fun as it sounds. This was a mechanic in vanilla multiple characters could take advantage of (if they had a fireball) and you can’t do it in Ultra with edition select. Seth could indeed do this so that was another very nasty ultra trap he had.

[@merkyofaycemfx2944]

Every character with a fireball had access to the glitch. Basically put the fireball hits meaty when the ultra flash happens. for some reason this made the ultra unguardable

[@eatass7746]

It's... It's Akuma... He's supposed to be a ridiculous character... How dumb can "fans" of street fighter be lmao

[@bigbangbot-SuperSqank]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t criticising Akuma for being bonkers. I just thought it was worth noting.

[@lordlightskin4200]

@@eatass7746🤓

[@benjaminjameskreger]

Crouching HK was a hard knockdown, and it was a common combo ender after LK tatsu. Then came the vortex.

[@surplus_kato]

This character gave me anger issues 😂 I remember furiously destroying him in story mode with Fei Long, such a good feeling

[@uberculex]

I remember in Vanilla SF4 I would just take his ultra 1 and deal with the mix up because his keep away was just too strong otherwise.

[@bulletcola7890]

There was no Ultra variants in vanilla 4.

[@dizzygunner]

​@@bulletcola7890he means you just throw a fire ball and let him hit his ultra.

[@nexus6100]

​@@bulletcola7890By take it, they make take the ultra in the face or on the chin or something like that. Not select it.

[@originalscreenname44]

I'm just here for my daily allowance of "FOLKS!"

[@striderzer0]

ON-LINE-TO-NY

[@Lots-Of-People-are-Saying]

It's so refreshing watching someone talking about this stuff that can actually do it. I watch so much DSP in sf6 for lulz I forget there's people that actually do things instead of get bodied and make excuses.

[@Midekai]

Because so few people played Seth perfectly, I had very little problem with Seth's high level play... I've learned a lot since those days of vanilla.. lol

[@layarteBdnAevoL]

For sure, people were really focused on his long arm keep away because I guess they were afraid to pilot his low HP so you could get one good trade punish on limbs and he kinda shattered. Didn't see too much actual rushdown in vanilla where he was very privileged, was just a bunch of yoga sniper.

[@Rox_R]

IIRC another thing about Seth was that he was only playable as a console character when the game originally came out in arcades first. Sagat, Akuma, and the other original characters got a lot more development than Seth in SF4 Vanilla's lifespan just because they had more time in the players' hands. Same with Cammy, who was discovered to have insane divekick pressure much later into subsequent versions of SF4, but she always had it since she was released in console vanilla. Meanwhile you can win Evo by playing Ryu and doing fireball traps and DP FADC for half the opponent's life.

[@ScoopsMayCry]

I got jumpscared by him walk kicking off the air mid screen

[@PepinoTheGreat]

One of the most if not the most entertaining videos so far, full of humor and a dint of melancholy for our loved Street Fighter revival catalyst. Ono sincerely wasn't full aware of what he was doing.

[@ActionJacksonForever]

Poongko’s Seth is the reason I started watching tournaments

[@Brokout]

More SF4 please! So much to talk about in this game

[@Ivan_Santos-Perez]

I can't wait for Bafeal to make the SF4 Seth Zangief matchup

[@ejilraegayola2648]

That’s amazing lol you should do more like this for SF4

[@jennyinutil2018]

Balrog's jab looks ridiculous

[@RancorousSea]

Seth is awesome for the same reason Cell was awesome. He steals your shit but he has this smug swag like actually he's the rightful owner.

[@IWearTimepants]

I remember hearing that Gen was a secret menace in Vanilla, but nobody knew about it until after Capcom had released Super.

[@ManoloRibera070]

i remember poongko doing mvc3 combos in SF4. it was nuts.

[@plutoburn]

Sagat had a good run, top tier in ST, CvS2, and SF4.

[@HeraldOfOpera]

He was the final boss of the original game hardly anyone remembers (doesn't hurt that his iconic scar was canonically obtained in the aftermath of that boss fight).

[@tomspag]

great video jmcrofts!! would love to see more videos like this 🙏

[@Akiga_games]

Awesome episode! This was a cool video!

[@lilhorsechoka]

You forgot to mention seth had an original unblockable with his U1. In vanilla if a fireball and U1 connected on the same frame, on hit or block they’d get hit by U1 so seth was able to put you in checkmate situations where no matter what you did you lose cause even if you escaped with a wake up DP, he could just punish the recovery.

[@WuMingTV]

He also had an unblockable setup to at least the ultra against almost all chars which was also removed in super. I also remember some other unblockables for some matchups.

[@darkfeeels]

I didnt even know all of this. Once again thank you for sharing sacred SF4 knowledge with us JM

[@user-mj2eq4se2x]

Great video, very entertaining, not that it's a big deal but the height your sit in the chair & your chair logo makes it look like your right ear is goblin like lol

[@slimballs9650]

14:10 OMEGA Mode has a bunch of those 2-bar EX Specials.

[@umk3mafioso]

Badass looking character. blend of T100, T1000 and robocop , fast paced, greatly animated, classic villain voiceover, 10/10

[@EXFrost]

Yknow the art of the character on the select screen. The shadow of his hand on his face looks really cool. I think his face is really boring so just putting that as like a hand print scar on his face would make him a 10/10 for me

[@umk3mafioso]

@@EXFrost yes, i like the art of him staring at his hand or through it, so menacing, so tastefully done. Some would think he is more of an MK or KI charachter, so unStreetfighter

[@ttt22tt33]

that set up after ultra gave me a good chuckles this character is insane 😂😂😂

[@KidBoodha]

11:32 ah the good ol on line toe knee

[@Yeahv]

I feel like this gives perspective for ken in sf6

[@HELLRAISER02]

I knew seth was like ogre in stealing all the good moves but dang, also im glad you covering vanilla seth, now i wanna see why vanilla ryu n gief were so strong, hmm

[@hori83]

Great breakdown! A few weeks ago a guy mauled my Ryu with every single option you talked about. Tried to adapt, but it's hard when you have to guess.

[@Zachary_Sweis]

I was hoping Bafael would do a video about vanilla SF4 Seth but you beat him to it! I'm still waiting for his Second Impact Ibuki video.

[@migrations]

I told myself I wouldn't watch the whole video but here I am..... Great content. I really like this deep dive stuff, it's so good.

[@arkalberto]

even though it is true seth was high tier in sf4 and has probably the best tools, i think you underestimate his low health. comparing him to zero from mvc3 is really unfair. i mean in that game health isnt such a big issue when you basicly can kill any character if you are able to convert your hits, so even healthy chars can die from a combo. that doesnt happen to seth in sf4. it is true his mix up potential and vortex game is top notch but you need to land multiple stuff. and if he gets hit his life goes away so fast. as you said in sf4 you got dp fadc as a safe option, one correct guess for 2 bars and half your health is gone.

[@aos-archive]

Wow it's been a hot minute since I've heard OnlineTony's name.

[@famicom89]

I think vanilla Akuma was the best character in the game, at the time people wasn't really aware of his vortex potential and would've ended Sagat dominion if it was discovered earlier

[@philipbrackett443]

Love content like this, thanks JM

[@eltniumgg974]

They said yeah let’s just take it out all together 😂😂😂

[@fodolocraigo8426]

Appreciate your videos!

[@khdaniely]

If Rainbow Street Fighter had a child.

[@ShidoKarasu]

I remember when a friend of mine was starting using seth, that zang headbutt save me a lot of matches

[@arrownoir]

He has the coolest lighting kicks though.

[@GinkgoPete]

I love love love that you bring up how Sagat kind of overshadows much more broken character. Vanilla Sagat was only so OP bc he was also super easy to pick up. Ultra David once said on commentary during a version select show case that Seth could probably take that crown had people figured him out the way that people like Poongko and online tony later had and that Sagat wasnt even Top 3 most broken characters.

[@orlof507]

Didn't even watch the video yet, but I have to comment how I just loved watching Poongko play as him, he was so aggressive as Seth, it was beautiful to watch. Usually Seth low health is what made him lose the more difficult matches.

[@Jamie-rg1tl]

I have never played SF4 nor even seen a ton of gameplay of this. Will enjoy regardless

[@lolopunzel4130]

Man.....miss this "boss" fight in street when the boss make you cry😢 because was dificult as hell but when you beat it was so important and let you see the ending of your fighter that was so hard to fight....good days

[@FuriousMaximum]

I still think Sagat has a small slight edge. That raw damage on a character with good tools, pressure, zoning, ability to close distance, and normal health to bully on trades is awesome. I miss using him in the new days when I could get win rates over 75% ...no more... I'm lucky to crack 50% now EDIT: Also yes please to more Ultra and Omega SFIV content.

[@HeraldOfOpera]

The OG final boss beating the upstart. Sounds about rght.

[@Zetact_]

When they're trying to balance the boss character for the main roster and they just lower his HP and call it a day.

[@justicetaylor3050]

“Re standing the opponent is very dangerous in any fighting game” I remember when Spider Man punched the green goblin down, grabbed him, and stood him back up to whale on him again. If I could design my own character’s finisher attack, I feel like I’d want to include a similar beat down followed by picking up the opponent just to beat them back down. It just feels like such a brutal animation of refusing to let an opponent stay down.

[@BigMujK]

Well he is the boss character

[@watchingclub]

Never been this early. Have a great week everyone. Tekken 8 hype!!!

[@thathandleistakentrythisone]

You can never nerf the beauty of that bald head

[@SmokeyAmp]

Seth's DP, whilst more invincible than any other DP in the game, was still 4 frame startup. So you could safe jump it and OS a teleport punish.

[@astolfostrikesback4073]

I've also heard that SF4 akuma was very good, is it true?

[@jmcrofts]

yep! maybe i'll cover him next

[@famicom89]

yeah do it, IMHO he was stronger than both Sagat and Seth@@jmcrofts

[@renegoyco226]

SF4 Seth is the greatest glass Canon

[@ajshiro3957]

These nerfs didn't erase the nightmare. The boss fight was still crazy. The 7 hit SRK though. 😅

[@trevor_r]

I forgot how ugly SF4 Gief was lmao they did him right in 6

[@Rick-eh1qn]

intressting character would be intressting if they put him in 6 would love to see what his moves would look like there (also on your question yes you are crazy but we all are way to many hours in those games)

[@paleposter]

He needs it bro

[@blehblah766]

All seth fans remember the name poongko ❤

[@rensten4893]

All Seth haters remember him too. 😂

[@blehblah766]

@@rensten4893 😭 tru

[@Hemestal]

Vanilla Seth is what a lv100 avatar feels like fighting against in sf6.

[@MitoRequiem]

Not sure if it was this game where on release people thought he was the worst character in the game lol, absolutely insane maybe I'm thinking of Vergil in MvC3 but coulda swore people thought vanilla Seth was ass too

[@ShadyHitchhiker]

It wasn't this game The rated low tiers of console vanilla was Dan, Sakura and Vega Seth was tied for 9th with Bison, which on reflection is arguably too low, but nobody ever thought he was bad

[@WolfTheImmortal]

I wanna see you fight people with Seth

[@WhiteDragonTC]

as a new FG and SF gamer is there a encyclopedia for all terms used in SF? like i know now what a SPD is, but there are alot of things i still dont know

[@iceypumpkinhead]

What do you think seth's tanden engine would be like if it were a computer os?

[@carlintaylor3229]

Remember getting this in mid 2009 for the xbox 360 me and my dad stayed up late unlocking characters was a lot of fun the ultra edition is still my favorite version of this game before street fighter 6 witch is pretty awesome in it's own right 😊😊

[@Yous0147]

My favourite Seth player is this up and coming fighting game youtuber called JMCrofts. I also think Brian F is a good Seth player and technically that counts.

[@RitzScythe]

THE WALL JUMP WHAT THE HOLY HELL??

[@GRossatti]

When AE 2012 came out Kazunoko dropped Yun for a moment and picked up Seth. I remember people debated if he was a better Seth player than Poongko for a short period 'cause he wouldn't play rushdown 100% of the time as Poongko used to do until then.

[@bulb9970]

The glass cannon design is so stupid. “Let’s give this character all the best options in the game, but he’ll have a bit less HP than the rest” Well, he’ll just keep dominating neutral all the time. And lower HP isn’t a weakness at all since he already does so much damage to the opponent.

[@Toomnyusernae]

His Ultra donated quite a bit of meter but it was fairly easy to combo into and flexible. Focus back dash well timed should be able to dodge his Ultra but that will depend on timing and the character's back dash. Ryu can air ex tatsu to stay in the air to avoid Seth Ultra.