Jocko Podcast 382: Fighting Che Guevara's Communist Insurgents in the Congo. w/ SEAL Jim Hawes

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"Cold War Navy SEAL."
Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles

[@Rempast]

When the guest calls Jocko a "Young SEAL" you know it's gonna be a GOOD one.

[@justino6595]

This man is over 80 years old and looks and talks like he’s 60

[@buch434]

Thats what I was thinking!

[@ksprh724]

He is a freaking amazing human

[@russellridge8623]

Jujutsu ???? 😂

[@sherrysarpu5647]

People that serve humanity don’t age like people that don’t!

[@kilobravo2373]

Now contrast that to Biden. This week he was asked by a child what the last country he visited was, and after mumbling and fondling the 5 year old that asked him the question for almost a full minute, he had no idea of the answer to such a brain buster. Until faintly, you could hear another child from the crowd yell out"ireland", and Biden thanked him for the assist. That trip to Ireland was a taxpayer funded vacation roughly 2 weeks earlier, which he had already forgotten about. Absolutely astonishing...

[@MegadethTillDeth]

May God look after the men like Jim and Jocko. They are sorely needed in America today.

[@benjaminlewis671]

31:56 Chester was one of the 100 people they base the navy dive table on. This is awesome and isn't talked about enough as to why some people get the bends while others don't. My brother had a diving accident when I was 15 years old and I read the navy dive manual to start understanding what happened. This helped me get my chemical engineering degree years later.

[@BlueWaterSTAX]

These podcasts are Solid gold. Priceless interview. Thanks guys. God bless our veterans 👍

[@havoc391]

There is no better location for education about our hero’s stories of service to America. Public school is horribly woeful in its required subjects To our youth and Jocko attracts because of his reputation the top of the list. All I hope at 68 years old when I am 83-84 yrs old I am as lucid, entertaining, and can speak of my life’s experiences as clearly and completely. What a memory and thank you Jocko.

[@yahillo]

Fr, some people in school don’t even respect the pledge. Millions of soldiers die for their country and freedom and modern kids and people completely ignore it.

[@clongshanks5206]

It’s designed to be woeful. Keep Americans weak and stupid

[@MegadethTillDeth]

Public school is not "woeful" in its teaching. It's exceeding expectations. You just happen to think it's supposed to be used for education, when in fact its been nothing but indoctrination for a communist agenda for at least 30 years. Ask me how I know.

[@CSpad]

​@Yahillo we serve so those kids have the all the freedoms guaranteed to our citizens, even when we may not agree with what they do, say or act. Doesn't matter. We don't serve so that we get Pat's on the back or to indoctrinate people to a song or flag, but rather what it represents.

[@yahillo]

@@CSpad It seems like a lot of modern American society doesn’t recognize the men and women who serve the country and cannot even stand up for the pledge. It’s insane how many people decide to not stay quiet during a moment of silence or go on their phone while the pledge is taking place.

[@fedupamerican6534]

Jocko thank you for bringing these American Hero’s on.

[@deepbludude4697]

Dang great interview! I just pulled trigger on Mr. Hawes book! My Pops is 87 he flew A-1s with 1st SOW out of Hurlburt but prior to his SEA deployment 67-69, He did a TDY (im Assuming) in Congo in 63 training Cuban Pilots flying the T-28's. I followed his footsteps a bit differently 20 years latter but ended up a bit further west in Africa. TIA!

[@Dwendele]

Jocko has great, informational, educational and inspirational podcasts. But there's nothing better than when he has other old warriors on, teaching us history!

[@shannon7206]

Great interview Jocko, I listen to these all the time and I've seen 300 of the 382 so I'm thankful to be able to receive the knowledge & life lessons.

[@danodd8999]

Jocko, Echo can you make a T-shirt with Jim Hawes likeness as a counter to Che Guevara fashion?

[@ttm2362]

Jocko, can you make one with Jim Hawes 1, Che 0? Put their faces side by side and label it Rumble in the Jungle?

[@williamolliges2622]

I’m not necessarily a fan of anyone who would kill thousands of his own countrymen, buuut I’ve harbored fantasies of making Pinochet t-shirt, just to poke at Che Guevara t-shirts.

[@kennethkernen7031]

@@williamolliges2622 AMEN!! So tired of the Che shirts. He probably would have killed all of those wearing them.

[@californiacombativesclub202]

@@williamolliges2622 oh, boy, that’s a dog whistle for fascism. Yikes

[@williamolliges2622]

@@californiacombativesclub202 Okay, Pinochet was a bit too much. Perhaps "McCarthy was right" t-shirts will be slightly less offensive. 🤔 I don't actually believe this either, but there has to be a counterpoint to the Che t-shirts that depict an absolute monster as a hero.

[@l.martinfletes3566]

84 years old? This guy looks amazing.

[@john_trimble78]

I love hearing the perspective of our elders. The older you get (I'm 52), the more you realize that life is tough and those who have thrived and survived are who we must heed the advice of. They deserve our respect. While wisdom is earned and not learned, we can avoid pitfalls by acting on their advice. One of the primary indicators of a successful society is how it treats it's elderly members. I've been the hard headed know-it-all who thought older people were outdated and antiquated. They wrote the manuals we use today. My dad was part of SAC (Strategic Air Command) in the Air Force during the 50's and 60's. The cold war chess matches that happened were incredible. These guys are top notch and squared away. I have mad respect for those guys who served during the fog of the cold war.

[@skazzwag8]

I agree that our wise elders should be heeded. Do you think the current generation of elders is heed-worthy?

[@ninjanunch2769]

Jocko and Shawn Ryan have the best podcasts for learning about our unsung heros, learning about what happened and learning stuff about what to do whether if your depressed or feel out of the game of life etc these two have the best remedy

[@anthonyryan6716]

Damn right I personally prefer Shawn Ryan

[@ninjanunch2769]

@@anthonyryan6716 i love them both but ya I like Shawn's alot especially because he's had a lot of superstar operators on there in DJ Shipley, Rob O'Neill etc

[@anthonyryan6716]

@@ninjanunch2769 Chris vansaint Cody's Alford and so many good ones jockos is good too. my flavor for sog and the Vietnamese conflicts African and middle east with the 🦍 and man jammie motherfuckers have my jaw dropped always has sense I was a kid. But Shawns the man and will actually talk to you I have

[@3xj704]

As a Singaporean, thank you for your flattering but true analysis of my beloved Homeland

[@Archblood]

Ah, a fellow SG fan of JP. Good to hear Hawe’s rather accurate view of LKY. Western media would have been less charitable.

[@3xj704]

@@Archblood Hear. Hear.

[@Dengwale2]

Respect to you sir only if we have soldiers like you

[@dkkids]

Thank you Sir for posting these stories. Listening to peoples experiences and how they overcome adversity is an inspiration to everyone who gets the chance to hear them! (Retired Army/Air Force 22yrs - enlisted)

[@welltender1795]

Beautiful thank you 👍

[@billclintonrapeskids3602]

Jocko, bring on some Rhodesian vets!!!!!!

[@mariojorge9529]

Thank you very much!

[@Mutwefoo]

Thanks for this. Gold

[@dennisculpepper3630]

I've found the perfect podcast to listen while I'm out on the road. Thanks a million Sir.

[@natejackson4791]

Great topic, thank you

[@NismostuffBlogspot]

Mike Hoare's background sounds a lot like the inspiration for the Smith book "The Dark of the Sun" as well

[@MrRic007]

Wow! What a podcast ! Great history and amazing guest !

[@machriskily8372]

Great story teller! Great man!

[@joshthomason8170]

As always, Thank you! I could not put this book down! What an amazing man!

[@mattmakousky2741]

Another powerful episode, Echo and Jocko. I appreciate you guys very much. I was just rereading some portions of Robert Greene's books. I was thinking he would be an awesome guest on the podcast, given his military history knowledge and overall interesting mind. Thoughts?

[@chris-sc9cv]

The sound of legends.

[@buttneked3963]

Dang It Man, contacts in the 60’s would’ve been like putting Nickels in your eyes. Late 70’s I TRIED “Soft Lens” contacts. I had an astigmatism and couldn’t “finger” my eyeball. It felt like I was wearing fog light covers on my eyeballs, and I was too vein to wear black or wood color frame glasses. 20/100. To pass physicals I got close to the eye chart and memorized Line 8 DEF POT EC. 45 years later I can’t remember DICK, but I got line 8 with my eyes closed. I Never wore my glasses never got conditioned to them. My father told me “son, the world is passing you by and you don’t know it.” I Got lazy corrective surgery in 2005 to make me a better welder. I could use low powered readers now. 2023

[@PawgSlayer]

Jocko 2024🇺🇸🇺🇸 we need you now

[@Mark.G475]

Great story! Cheer's from Milwaukee Wisconsin 🇺🇲🧀! I have been to Beaver Dam many times. Fred Mc Murray was from Beaver Dam.

[@jamesgunnyreed3792]

I was in Brazzaville, Congo in 1997 for the Non-Combatant Evacuation Operation (NEO) of American Citizens, the Embassy, and the Embassy in Kinsasha, Zaire just across the Congo River. This was the Civil war that resulted in Zaire becoming the "Democratic Republic of Congo"... High adventure for a small town kid from Ohio.... I have always said since, that The Congo is the most beautiful place I have ever been and the most hellish place I have ever been. I have also done some stuff in Sierra Leone (same time Jocko was there). Angola, Gabon, Senegal, and Central African Republic. Africa is an amazing place and I would love to go back. But it is also a very brutal, violent, and ruthless place. Guess thats the way its always been? It was like that before colonization, during colonization, and still that way after...South Africa, Congo, and Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) are the most widely known examples of this..... Great episode!

[@n.h.420]

Nam Frogmen got the best story's..hands down!!

[@johnmeyer8140]

Another outstanding interview Jocko!!

[@vikhyatmundlapudi8755]

Holy shit. Is this actually JSM? If so, do you ever think, what if, you accepted the offer to be one of the founding members of Delta?

[@johnmeyer8140]

@@vikhyatmundlapudi8755 - I had left the service when Delta was formed.🪂🇺🇸

[@TheNorman1169]

Such a great podcast

[@nemesisbreakz]

Imagine being a sniper and losing a contact 😆

[@Mbstr1]

That would be a contactical error

[@connertait5424]

What an extraordinary human being.

[@AlexDiaz-zi9pj]

Great interview, I hope you can interview Felix Rodriguez he was the CIA who caught Che in Bolivia he is still alive.

[@thestonedsailor6072]

Great show 🙏🇺🇲

[@dunderwood4444]

Was listening to Che and Fedel Castro interviews Black and white video, interesting interviews. Got nothing but love for Cuba 🇨🇺 my Cuban brother's and sisters did nothing to me

[@WHODEYFAN25]

I could listen to these guys talk for days haha

[@Malaea1]

you're awesome!

[@buttneked3963]

Regarding Hoare’s ego. I have a saying, “ It Ain’t Braggin If You Can Back It Up”.

[@justinemims2998]

Leadership is working through tough problems by decentralized command as Jocko states. Missionaries in the Congo does not always mean the law abiding as in the United States. Just being in the Congo means a challenge for survival. Fire arms includes M24 Sniper Weapon System and a big switch from M14 to M16 at 1964. Where the M16 has controlled firing power of 60 rounds per minute at fastest before switching to semi automatic at 700-850 rounds per minute with three rounds per trigger. That can get really hot. In the Congo, Snipper training maybe less about vantage points and more about blending in. Command with the Missionaries means knowing the language for fighting the Communist. Not having decentralized command for the Communist is a disadvantage where adaptation is necessary for gorilla warfare. Hawes mentioned finding his way through waivers when his eye sight was questioned. I believe it was more important that Hawes was able to conceal the concern with new technology then to brush off the technicality. As well, it was of no concern when training could go as normal operations and wasn’t really stop because he didn’t have issues with eye sight. It may have been concern just to confirm Jim was good to go. The doctor didn’t need to make a red flag when Jim had already completed previous training and was already proving himself. The Cold War was is somewhere 1962-1979. Year 1968-69 was when things started to cool down with much of the fighting already over and diplomatic talks for negotiations starting for the new decolonized lives from Communism. Business was now over how the African people can go about their lives in a new era. Balance through a more just system of power through sharing by Marines trade in commerce. I drink protein everyday. It has never made me gain weight with two scoops. I’ve fasted with only Jocko protein and never seen fat inducing results. It’s a build up gain with health where I not expecting to see really results without putting the work in. Exercising with the protein is definitely better.

[@dom8400]

HERO 🇺🇸🦅

[@good6894]

Echo clicking his pen during this recording was very annoying! But a wonderful episode with an extremely interesting guest, besides the pen lol

[@TropicalBones]

I was wondering where that sound came from lol was bugging me hardcore. If they could find that frequency and dip it out, it would do wonders. That said, amazing interview!

[@good6894]

@Tropical Bones @Tropical Bones Yes. I was actually listening to the audio only version and came to KZbin to find the video just to figure out what thenl hell that sound was! Lol

[@vitigaymer1053]

Hero

[@s.k.mcduffie6475]

God bless your mother.

[@DieWellTomorrow]

Thank You. LiveRightToday

[@andycandal5934]

Available in spanish : "La Otra Cara del Che, Un Sepulcro Blanqueado" written by Marcos Bravo. Deep and comprehensive study about the infamous La Cabana murderer and sorry guerrilla monger. Don't know if any english version is available.

[@Adirondack13]

That beginning interjection about vietnam is fucking crazy if you understand how to dissect it. He's basically saying his contingency is burning documents and watching multiple agitators inspiring protests after multiple changes of governments. There is no deeper meaning of being in the shit than that small playthrough.

[@Essentials1]

Straight Positions. Bottom up - or top down - shaping, shaping, shaping.

[@sherrysarpu5647]

Hello I’m grateful!

[@TheCooksTV]

Do you have to get permission to read books on the podcast Jocko?

[@BassSniper209]

Jocko 2024

[@jackettjake]

Shout out to Beaver Dam!

[@gorestar216]

Hey jocko, i keep hearing at the end of the podcasts that your at wawas, but i havent seen an rtd molk in months. Same with my local vitamin shops. They hardly ever have jocko supps, out here in Florida. Also why is time war so expensive??? I want to try it but its out of my budget

[@chadindhaka]

Does anyone have a link for the book?

[@josephkuser3998]

I'm trying to find the damn thing myself! Wth Also he said Hoar wrote books too. Trying to figure out how to get them

[@fhlostonparaphrase]

Search for authors name, you'll find it.

[@coletrain6545]

The fact that ches last few years were absolute failures are just the best

[@ProletarianVanguard]

hating a man who wanted to save poor and innocent tells a lot about you what you wish to those people

[@roberthubbard5008]

Damn! Good old days of mercs

[@sasquatch6829]

Wasn’t the gulf of Tonkin incident completely faked? Isn’t that admitted completely now?

[@waverider689]

Gulf of tonkin incident did involve navy attack boats hitting targets i north vietnam a few days before the “incident” or lack there of

[@sasquatch6829]

@@waverider689 okay so his portion happened, but the larger assault on our vessels did not?

[@dwightchaos9449]

@@waverider689 😊ńt😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@Krim707]

Ah yes the struggle of contact lenses

[@benc-j4942]

Hi Jocko, I am going to start taking BJJ and I see a lot of conversation around sport BJJ vs BJJ for self defence and I don't know what BJJ club to join because of it. There are 2 different BJJ schools next too each other, a Gracie Barra and a GRACIE JIU-JITSU ACADEMY and I am not really interested in the sporting side of BJJ. The instructor at GRACIE JIU-JITSU ACADEMY Marcos Nevel was awarded his blackbelt by the Gracie family in Brazil. And the instructors at Gracie Barra are both IFBBJ champions, I want to learn BJJ for self defence and not sport and I don't know what the differences really are or what the right choice is. Thanks!

[@bernardgo2225]

With a laughter like Jim's I'll follow him to hell😊 Respect and Gratitude sir.

[@macd557]

I loved reading about how we sent a Cuban National to put the bullet through Che’s brain in the book Surprise, Kill, Vanish. He was a genocidal maniac. My grandfather was a political prisoner of his for 3 years after he and Fidel confiscated my family’s hotel, farm and restaurant. Too bad we didn’t finish Fidel Castro in similar fashion.

[@johnroat9135]

My Classmate, a REAL DEAL Frogman!🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸

[@chickenbroski99]

Colonel Mad Mike was my great, great uncle. It would be nice if you could review his book Mercernary. I appreciate Jim Hawes perspective and can understand it, Colonel Mike was a man who believed in an Africa for Africans. I don't believe he wanted the soviets in Africa any more than he did the Americans.

[@MegadethTillDeth]

What about fighting communist insurgencies on American soil?

[@chris-sc9cv]

Roger Dodger, you old Codgers!

[@academicmailbox7798]

Hour and forty minutes, probably word was a buccaneer. Pirates, maurauding buccaneers who terrorized coastlines in the Carribean ocean. In the old days. British, Australian, South African, Irish 'club' or low level rugby teams. Or alliances between smaller rugby clubs who join together to play for trophies. Tended to call their clubs buccaneers 'this or that'. For example, a Navy Seal rugby club would be San Diego buccaneers. Which yes, is proudly just about as dodgy and as wreckless, and as thrill seeking as it sounds.

[@mrh8562]

Awesome! The legend of the "cocaine pirate" makes it to jocko! Hahaha🇺🇸 great interview

[@Hittman8499]

Every time Jim laughs it scares the hell out of me and I have to turn the volume down

[@mariaviggiano7136]

Oooooooo I can’t wIt to hear it

[@supervortex8363]

only 5 mile swim,,,we had to do 20 mile at school

[@michaelboyd7508]

Any man who runs off Che Guevara and his scumbag commies his a hero in my book. Thank you gentlemen for your heroic srevice for our country. You have my eternal gratitude and respect.

[@ProletarianVanguard]

Che quit because he was surrounded by idiots. Idiots who don't know what it takes for true revolution.

[@jacobglauser4390]

I may need to start a book club where we only read books by guests on this podcast :) With so much white-washed media in the world today, these first hand accounts of what went down in history are awesome.

[@mustanglenn]

This guy loves his own jokes 😂😂😂

[@dionthomas5418]

My salute to the Navy Seal Warrior, patriot and badass legend in fighting against the Che Guevara communist insurgents in the jungle destroying the enemies of freedom and America like them by any means necessary to protect freedom and the American people, dream and way of life at all times and all costs

[@zachmoeller8609]

Im surprised he had nothing to say about working with South africans and Rhodesians.

[@brandonlang9322]

The Congo was a strange place the last 40 years or more. OTRAG west Germanys rocket program hidden in a 270,000 Sq mile portion of the Congo. Their aim? Make cheap reusable rockets. Elons from south Africa as well. Thanks to Gorbachev for telling us this.

[@jamajnasoares5702]

(To fight against a killer of gays, despiser of blacks and persecutor of rockers?) GOOD morning AmericAM

[@newarsene]

Echo you have to stop playing with your pen Click click click in the background is annoying Put that thing down

[@planes3333]

I watched a movie called Che. I thought it seemed like Che did better for cuba but its hollywood and they so often bend stories and outright lie but apparently Batista was terrible. THough I dont think cuba is free either. Hard to say. I sure love Jocko but sometimes I wonder if he is fighting battles for some politicians who are into some nefarious clandestine missions like I love the idea of Iraq and stopping the Isis and all that, I love it. But then where was america stopping rawanda. Its seems sometimes like it was the oil that the reason being over there. I dont know much about it I really dont I am canadian so .......... anyone have some points to make about my question

[@DeathByGelato]

Banana 🍌

[@shannon7206]

Love it that's my nickname !!😂😅

[@CommunistCommando1]

Guevara was a Revolutionary but he wasn't a Communist. Only after the Cuban Revolution did he and Castro take on a Stalinist type of Socialism, which was hardly real freedom. Guevara tried to export his type of revolution to Colonial and Neo-Colonial countries, which is hardly serious Marxism.

[@daveharringbone8512]

Commies

[@user-ul5mh2vl5i]

Mean while give ife to obama mr president and scrip of nelson Mandela by parvez 007

[@batjackjohnson252]

First

[@phillipwombacher9635]

Che was fighting for the working class and was a principled comrade my great uncle met Che in Guatemala and was part of his “radicalization” to Marxism Leninism my great uncle went on to help form the gorilla army of the poor or the EGP

[@people_over_profit]

Fighting for corporations and killing poor people ! Thank you for your service sir

[@dioptre731]

Che❤