Joel Baden: The Bible Doesn't Say What You Think it Does

Joel Baden (Professor of Hebrew Bible Yale University) spoke at the 2013 Nantucket Project.
Nearly 80 percent of all Americans think the Bible is either literally true or is the inspired word of God. And yet, most Americans have no idea what is actually in the Bible. So we have the paradoxical situation in which we as a culture "have invested the words of this book with amazing authority even when we don't know what these words are and what they mean."
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[@jackwilmoresongs]

I agree that the Bible has strange effect on some people. The less they read it the more they consider themselves experts on it.

[@YouKnowWhereYouWentWrong]

^^^ THIS ^^^ And The Library is Closed.

[@ummmOk]

So true.

[@mikeharrison1868]

Typical Dunning-Kreuger...

[@E.K.2003]

@@SNORKYMEDIA How do you know this? If you're a non-believer, you don't understand it . If you are a believer, then I"m sure you can explain your statement.

[@sunesnigel]

@@E.K.2003 Was your comment meant as a joke?

[@jackmason9550]

The real problem here is the problem of the "institution". It's a problem that seems difficult to avoid and it happens rather commonly. In the beginning, someone has a truly great idea. Often this is a fundamental truth or a noble idea, a virtue or ideal that if followed carefully would make humanity as a whole better off. Take the idea of universities for example. The university is supposed to be a bastion of reason and scholarship, a place of enlightenment established on the free exchange of ideas. The IDEA of universities is a truly great idea. The problem is that everyone forgot what a university is really supposed to be. Today, universities don't exist for the sake of the free exchange of ideas, scholarship or reason. Today, the university is a business and it exists to make money and to perpetuate itself. It isn't treated as a place where the highest priority is the pursuit of knowledge or the free exchange of ideas. The original idea of the university has been lost, consumed by a system designed to maximize profits. The same thing has happened to the Bible and to Christianity. In the beginning, the IDEA of the church as it was during the time of Jesus was a pure idea. It was meant to be a place where true believers in Jesus and the lessons he taught could gather and remind one another of those lessons and teach their children those lessons and improve the soul of anyone who came to their doors seeking the wisdom of Jesus Christ. But in time, the church no longer existed to teach these lessons. In time the church existed only to continue perpetuating it's own existence for its own sake, not the sake of Jesus or his teachings. The church became an institution that forgot where and why it came to exist in the first place.

[@jaymcgann6637]

I'm a 20 percenter. I was religious at one time. My church asked me to conduct an adult Bible study on the OT. When I started to read it critically it immediately became apparent it had the validity of King Arthur.

[@k9crazy974]

"Sometimes the Bible is used as a prop." And sometimes it's used as a club.

[@joeinterrante7873]

And sometimes it used to explain God's plan for mankind

[@gorequillnachovidal]

and sometimes it is used as a suppository

[@jimmyross4352]

But it is always used to inform us we were created to enjoy God.

[@the11382]

And sometimes its used as a shield.

[@Mcfreddo]

@@jimmyross4352 And yet so many of things (100%) show us that we're just another animal. We're 99%related to chimpanzees yanno? The Earth is 4.5 billion year old. The crude oil that your gasoline comes from, is 180 million years old.. and so on.

[@Artman1]

"The Bible doesn't say what you think it does." Says every Christian to everyone else.

[@letsomethingshine]

Every Christian DENOMINATION about every Bible VERSION, edition, and translation.

[@joshuasiefring5810]

And if either of you read the Bible or listened to this, you’d have gathered the crux of the dialogue, therein. Re: dia-logue. I’ve assumed you’ve not based upon your criticism. My apologies if that is an incorrect assumption. I only veer into getting contentious because what you’ve gathered from not reading it immediately renders your opinion regarding it as...well...ignorance, not to mention arrogant. The Beauty of the design of the Bible, one of its many IMHO, is quite eloquently shared here. If of any worthy assertion ascribing it to a higher power can possibly be imparted it’s easily not going to be from any opposition to reading it. Haha. Ask those guys who didn’t read it. Ironically, the message in the gospels is that it’s written for those who’ve no merit in following some prescribed Law as spiritually divined or of some sacred merit or doctrine adhered to faithfully. “What you said”...says every know it all fool ever to criticize a Bible. You’re not one-up on “believers,” right or wrong, because you can’t know what you don’t know...Just in case you don’t know in addition to not knowing. It really is as profound as what this guy says. It’s also as good as any historical text of the Times. Criticizing things w/o knowing the things isn’t what you think it is.

[@jursamaj]

@@joshuasiefring5810 Why do you assume people who criticize your bible haven't read it? Ask around atheists, and you'll find that the quickest path to atheism is to actually read the bible…

[@joshuasiefring5810]

@@jursamaj Why do you assume it’s my Bible? To answer your question I was addressing the the comment we are replying to specifically because it heavily alludes to it and that the comment takes that side of the argument w/o overtly stating it. I’ve read it twice and didn’t use reductivism to determine there’s no God. Actually atheists probably believe what I do and do many others who in God. It’s about effectively discerning each word and then effectively communicating we each are on the same page with our def’n of each word. Case in point: I was specifically addressing those who judge before reading it anyway.

[@joshuasiefring5810]

@XICODECOPA That’s great. The point is that you’re describing the literal perspective of the Bible. You may not realize what you just stated is also referring to a spiritually correlated message at the sane time. Jesus was attempting to share a universal teaching. You just have to be at the awareness level required to grasp the implications of his transformation. Realizing the spiritual implications of the archetypes as we evolve consciously one becomes aware of the progression from The Satan > Lucifer > Jesus > on into the next levels of growth are key.

[@dmimcg]

I thank God every day for the bible. Without it, how would I know how to treat my slaves.

[@L5player]

Slavery was common in the ancient world in all nations, and it's still around today. Doesn't make it "right", but it's just a reality and the Bible acknowledged that--as it did for other practices of the period. God didn't change Israel's traditions on that matter before using them for His purposes. A few years ago, you wouldn't ever have said that a "man" could become a "woman." It's now the "received truth." The point is, no one lives in the future, so what was accepted as normal in times past, and isn't now, has to be evaluated in light of that. Fifty years ago, the husband was the breadwinner and the wife the homemaker. Today, to insist on that is considered sexist. Times change, and what's considered "acceptable" also changes--which is why taking down statues of past figures because they owned slaves is ridiculous. Doing so is tantamount to saying people living 200 years ago should have held today's standards. Do you still hold every belief that you held even 20 years ago?

[@dmimcg]

@@L5player So what you're saying is God didn't have enough power to change things, so he let slavery go on???? You mean God couldn't have had a commandment like Thou shall not own other people???? By your logic (more like lack of) God should have let murder go on too because people are just going to do it. Then why did GOD say, Thou Shall not murder? Yeah, time for you to get your GED.

[@RealAugustusAutumn]

@@dmimcg God understands the human heart, and part of the gift of free will is choosing what to accept and what not to accept. The largest empire the world had seen until then was based on cheap labor through slaves, and no one would accept the suicide of the state, even if God had commanded it

[@dmimcg]

@@RealAugustusAutumn According to youR logic then there should not be 10 commandments because, "People have free will anyway". ROFL. I think God could have said, THOU SHALL NOT OWN OTHER PEOPLE instead of don't covet your neighbors wife- but I guess, a wife is more important than a slave. PRAISE THE LORD!@ ROFL.

[@danielhilburn]

@@L5player That's actually the point. The idea that a law given by God at that time would not prohibit slavery makes sense under a naturalistic view in which the law's human authors would have no ability to conceive how immoral owning humans is. It doesn't make sense for a perfectly moral being to give these instructions to his chosen people.

[@HeatherSpoonheim]

I've read the bible from Genesis to Revelation in 3 languages. In point of fact, it is my go to source for learning a new language. What is most frustrating to me is the number of Christians I meet who, when confronted with this declaration, tell me, without shame, that they have never read the bible but subscribe only to its 'truth'.

[@haroldz2323]

They go to church.....take Bible quotes out of context.

[@HeatherSpoonheim]

@@haroldz2323 Most of them don't even understand the relationship between Christianity and Judaism - it's like in nomine Patris et Filii is nothing more than eenie meenie miney moe.

[@judyhickman5831]

Heather Spoonheim - You look uninformed by wearing that mask. Re. Bible- it's pretty well known these days about how much was distorted, misinterpreted when put into other languages, not to mention the majority of the books being confiscated (stolen and hidden) by the wicked Catholic church/Vatican

[@haroldz2323]

0

[@artszabo1015]

@@judyhickman5831 I guess you didn't pick up on Heather's use of "nomine Patris et Filii". This is her way of flexing her Bible wizardry by speaking Latin, the language of the anti-christ Catholic Church as you just stated. Her roots are obviously in that God forsaken cult. Your first observation that she was uninformed was spot on.

[@Automat1cJack]

Love to show this to my dad, but I think it would break his brain.

[@johnwoods6751]

You lost any hope for me to sync with you when you doubted God's ability to speak with the birds. You move into the argument for gay marriage without knowing why people believe in divinity itself. You're trying to argue to be respected without giving any respect. Ask someone who has experienced healing, or the cessation of demonic attack, if God exist, or is the Bible valid and they will tell you the only way they knew that God exist was to have faith.

[@HealingMusiciansLaunchcast]

Let’s Go Baden

[@brianvance1178]

So basically, you’re saying that when it comes to the Bible that all of those 400+ contradictions are not contradictions but different viewpoints and that somehow by extension every splintered branch of Christianity has it right no matter which contradictions they hold to or ignore. And you wonder why people the world over just decide to drop kick this bullshit compilation over the fence and into the bonfire next door

[@d-vision2426]

What contradictions?

[@dericanslum1696]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYCuialobayXepI

[@mikeq5807]

@@d-vision2426 Jesus and Paul have contradictory paradigms. Christianity is the lovechild of Paul. It fundamentally has nothing to do with Jesus. Jesus saw potential in the individual. Paul saw potential only in Jesus. Jesus said it is vital to clean the inside of the cup. Paul said it is vital to believe in Jesus to be clean, or pure. Paul saw the individual as fatally flawed and incapable. Jesus' words disagree, "Your faith has saved you." Furthermore, even the gospels disagree with each other. Ye are the temple. Ye are the living scriptures. Ye are the truth. This resonates with Jesus. It does not resonate with Paul, the father of Christianity, the reason why it does not resonate with Christianity. The Gnostics understood that the seeker must introspect to evolve spiritually.

[@d-vision2426]

Show me some contradictions

[@d-vision2426]

@@mikeq5807 Jesus saw people as flawed too. That's why he came. Once we put our faith in what Jesus did, God now sees us as perfectly righteous.

[@aluxdel4792]

My family is very divided by the different beliefs they get from their different denominations. It has separated my family, it has NOT united my family.

[@lcb1250]

Ironically, professing himself to be wise, he became a fool.

[@florentintise]

The speaker himself, while saying that others do not know what they are reading, does not know himself what he is reading in the creation story. What a superficial speech.

[@rabokarabekian409]

Any evidence for your superficial speech? Genesis chapter 1 doesn't match any specific detail in chapter 2. Literally.

[@florentintise]

@@rabokarabekian409 You should look up Documentary Hypothesis regarding the Old Testament. Comparing Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 and looking for differences like this speaker is, is simply an indication of his ignorance and lack of Old Testament rudimentary knowledge. The two chapters come from two different documents and chapter 2 is simply a retelling of the story in chapter 1, with a bit of a different angle to it. This is the same as comparing the gospel of John to any of the synoptics, and pointing out certain differences in the narrative. It doesn’t require any type of theological knowledge to realize that this presenter, while accusing Christians of not understanding what they are reading, is guilty of the very thing he is accusing them of. Just LOL.

[@IMD1Guru666]

He can't dazzle them with brilliance, he is baffling them with boochit

[@stephenwright8824]

In short: liars have to lie.

[@florentintise]

@XICODECOPA Jesus would not be OK with slavery the way we understand it today. While I personally do not agree with slavery or other practices in ancient Israel, Greece, Roman Empire, etc., slavery in Rome was quite different than what we are used to reading in our recent history books or, for example, in Alex Hailey’s “Roots”. In reality, slavery back then was very much part of the culture and often a way out of poverty or death for many. Some slaves ended up saving their families in the process. I don’t mean to give you a history lesson, but you are misunderstanding how slavery, or at least some cases of slavery worked in 1st century Rome, Greece, and Israel. Jesus also did not free John the Baptist from jail, and John ended up being beheaded at the whim of a teenage dancer … Does that mean that Jesus abandoned John and did not care for him? Of course not.

[@garyking9484]

I’ve been reading the Bible from my preteen days. Last read, I was on my 8th cover to cover reading. Because I read and understood the Bible, I’m an atheist today. The first concept in the Bible that gave me pause was, “God’s chosen people “. So as a kid I was like, “God has a favorite”??? Worst part was I wasn’t a Jew so I wasn’t one of God’s favorite. Years later I was mature enough and educated myself enough to be able to call that favorite concept, “bullshit “!

[@nikao7751]

You still don't understand the bible. Reading it from cover to cover over and over won't make you understand it. The bible is an integrated message system outside our space time domain knowing the end from the beginning: His story in advance. It's all about the person of Jesus Christ and the truth thereof. God chose a people so as to bring about Jesus Christ. One of the biggest barriers to truth is the presumption that we already have it. The bible tells us that we have a something better than being an eyewitness to the time of Jesus here on earth and that is the more sure word of prophecy and anyone willing to admit the truth can see the words of Jesus playing out right before our very eyes. I for one am not willing to gamble my eternity that the bible is wrong, that's a losing bet for sure.

[@nikao7751]

@Darren Threinen John 3:17 for God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved." We've all earned death, no doubt about it, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ and the truth thereof. I pray that you never let the pride of saving face keep you from the gift of saving grace.

[@nickw3463]

@Darren Threinen who cares what color his skin was and why does it matter what color you pictured him in your mind? That's not the point.

[@Gra1i1ude]

@@nikao7751 Which Bible, which translation? Every person of differing faiths believes theirs is the only true religion/God. Not everyone can be right.

[@bwgbwg1529]

big news for an American crowd... we learned that genesis 1 and genesis 2 are not the same story in protestant religious class at Bavarian Gymnasium in the 90s. btw in the German unified bible translation, a footnote (yes, footnotes in the bible...) elaborates on the discrepancies between both creation accounts, stating that the second is the older one.

[@ricardopenamcknight6407]

I mean, not big news for all of us. A lot of the kids that went to like... catholic school and bible study classes are actually pretty well informed about a lot of these things. I already knew about it. In fact I already know part of the Jewish explanation that has long been passed down in the oral tradition from teacher to students. The first creation account refers to the creation of Adam Kadmon, primordial Adam who exists at a higher level of the soul and of creation. The second account refers to the creation of Adam HaRishon from the dust of the earth. Also that term is more accurately translated as "side" not rib.

[@joshuasiefring5810]

Can you help me see this piece through directing me toward the Protestant verses you are referring to? Please.

[@davidcloyd1296]

Not sure, but I do know Israel was divided into TWO kingdoms, Israel & Judah..and my recollection is that each story from both kingdoms is included in Genesis…see cosmologist Hugh Ross for a scientific affirmation of Genesis

[@martinmuller3244]

When we got religious instruction, the Catholic priest would collect the Catholics. Since there were fewer of them, my sister thought, since she is normally special, she must be part of the crowd that left. Needless to say, my father was very proud. My grandfather was a missionary's son, of the persuasion that succesive Catholic rulers have been trying to exterminate since 1415. But yes learnt that also as a young man.

[@floridaman318]

That's not true. One is a synopsis of the other. All of that other stuff is just later Jewish mumbo jumbo.

[@theslimecrew4827]

Baden: "The bible preserves religious pluralism for us" Me: I agree, we accept all opinions except from the Amalekites, of course.

[@lauroandrea3241]

Good one!

[@josecartin825]

Throwing something contradictory and which has caused so much harm to the garbage doesn't sound as bad math actually. Just like the right thing to do.

[@theslimecrew4827]

@@josecartin825 What?

[@johngraham1274]

Let him who walks in sin, walk further still - and he who walks in Righteousness walk further still. Those who consistently refuse to seek the Lord with a whole heart will be damned with annihilation. Those performing the Law of Christ will be saved into the next life, traditions be damned (as they are worldly at best).

[@theslimecrew4827]

@@johngraham1274 malapropos

[@treybie1]

His perspective on the Bible is shaped by his Jewish faith. He doesn't believe in Jesus Christ. That makes a pretty large difference in how he and a Christian will perceive the Bible. Just FYI.

[@markpkessinger]

What I have always found interesting is that when you press many Christians for proof of the authority of the bible, they will point to 2 Timothy 3:14-17: "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have known the sacred writings that are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work." The problem with this -- apart from the obvious one of using the Bible itself to prove its own authority -- is that when 2 Timothy was written, the Bible, as we know it, didn't exist. 2 Timothy was written around 64-65 A.D. None of the four Gospels had yet been written, nor had Acts or Revelation yet been written, and the Bible, as a collected anthology of religious writings, wouldn't be codified and compiled into one collection until several centuries later. So whatever the writer of 2 Timothy (whether or not it was actually Paul) was referring to, it could not possibly have been the Bible as we know it. Most likely, it was a reference to the Hebrew scriptures. And this is true throughout the New Testament. Nowhere in any book of the New Testament is there reflected any awareness of any of the other book of the New Testament, and for very good reason: either they6 had not yet been written, or they had not yet become canonical texts. Similarly, I've heard Christians refer to Revelation 22:18-19 as proof of the Bible's authority: "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book; if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. " But since the Bible did not yet exist as a book when Revelation was written, that passage can only be assumed to be a reference to the Book of Revelation itself, and cannot be applied to the Bible as a whole.

[@sonicspring6448]

Excellent, thank you. And this highlights just how much anyone who claims to be a believer, has personal responsibility for their belief. They are are ultimately responsible for choosing, within the realm of their own mind and being, what they affirm as the source of their belief. I personally think it's best to compare outer with inner, ie scripture that is inspiring and uplifting, with one's deepest intuitions. But I am not saying it's a free-for-all in there, or that anything goes. Far from it. Spiritual light can be found within oneself as well as encoded in the words of scripture. And not just of one religion or one sect of a religion.

[@noeltaylor3594]

Anki and Anlil. "Let us make them in OUR image".

[@cajunboy67]

Monotheism was an idea that evolved over time. The early parts of the Bible support henotheism. The first unqualified statement of monotheism doesn't appear in the Bible until Isaiah 44:6.

[@13Ambro]

There is a fantastic book, written by a Harvard literary professor called “Who Wrote the Bible?” Which explains many contradictions in the Old Testament. It’s incredibly fascinating but the punch line is that it was not divinely inspired but rather the work of different priests / religious sects and was ultimately woven together (similar to how the New Testament was a collection of different authors).

[@mgwgeneral6467]

And you believe them more? You will never witness the power of God or his miracles as we who believe on him do.

[@13Ambro]

@@mgwgeneral6467 I never said I didn’t believe in god. Quite the opposite. I was saying that people need to dive deeply into their religion and not blindly accept what their pastor tells them like a herd of sheep. Jesus was not a Christian (remember that) he didn’t worship himself. He preached Jewish law. Understand the Hebrew bible as well as the different offshoots such as the Kabbalah - and you will have a deeper understanding of the true Word. (Not to mention reading other religious texts from other religions to see the commonality). Also, the book I mentioned has a beautifully documented analysis that explains, for example, why there are two entirely different dimensions given for the Arc, or why we see God as a benevolent fatherly figure in some texts but a vengeful being in others. Personally, such information only enriched my experience with God - but there are so many people who would chastise me for seeking my own truth - because it doesn’t agree with their own dogma handed down from self proclaimed experts who have never probed and gone beyond blind acceptance.

[@robertomondello2447]

@@13Ambro I'm agree with you buddy 🤙🤙🤙🤙👍👍👍👍

[@1allstarman]

The DOcumentary hypothesis has been around almost two hundred years .

[@amth3400]

What is the name of the author?

[@delgadopodcast]

00:43 Most American’s don’t read the Bible 2:00 Bible is used as a prop 2:55 People like "religious truth" of Bible 4:28 Religion tells us Bible has one meaning 6:45 Creation story #1 9:00 Creations story #2 12:10 Contradictions in creation stories 13:20 What creation stories tell us 14:45 Reading Bible in new way 15:25 Biblical authors shared two beliefs 16:34 Many truths equally Biblical 17:12 Religious pluralism is preserved in the Bible 17:52 Bible is about dialogue - not monologue

[@madsquid9943]

wtf is the point of doing that?

[@lauroandrea3241]

@@madsquid9943 So you don't waste your time with a pseudo academic getting woke-funding through grants

[@adamlangton1967]

@@lauroandrea3241 Sounds like somebody doesn't like their story book being questioned. lol

[@jimhughes1070]

Yep this guy's a moron... He has no idea what the Bible's telling us 🤣🤣🤣 but it ain't what he thinks!! Absolutely astonishing how many stupid people there are on this planet

[@jimhughes1070]

@@adamlangton1967 ah finally... A decent, if not sincere, challenge...🤣 No I know you're being sarcastic... No need for me to lift myself up above my station.... If you get a genuine question about some portion of the Bible though give me a shout... I know Someone who knows it backwards and forwards.... Or is that forwards and backwards ...I forget... Oh yeah, bring cash 🤣

[@michaeltellurian825]

He made a perfect argument for atheism.

[@jimhughes1070]

Yes , yes he did... With lies, straw man, Misquotes, and sleight of hand by attempting to appear as "an angel of light"...(did you get that hint ?)

[@NC-bs6yi]

@@jimhughes1070 Mr. Jim Hughes...you are a goddamn genius

[@user-wn8mc1yc1g]

You will believe in Christ

[@jimhughes1070]

@@NC-bs6yi I know right!!

[@jimhughes1070]

@@user-wn8mc1yc1g yes , yes they will...

[@nkolev]

For the Jews, the Holy Bible might be ambiguous, but not for the Orthodox Christians.

[@andresmata4949]

Walter Kaufman used to cal this exegetical thinking:using a sacred text to give authority to personal arguments or ideas.

[@TheRKae]

@XICODECOPA "Slavery" in Jesus' time was indentured servitude. If you were in poverty, you attached yourself to someone with money; you worked as a servant and could eventually buy your way out. It was their version of welfare: what to do with the poor. Today we have debt slavery, and leftist "Christians" are OK with that. The laws in Moses' time forgave debt every 7 years. Sounds like I'd rather live under Moses than in the world today.

[@pepperidgefarms6539]

@XICODECOPA enough. Nobody cares and stop spamming every comment.

[@pnut3844able]

Sacred? Lmao

[@pnut3844able]

@@TheRKae apologist bullshit. Even if that were true, it still says you're allowed to BEAT THEM as long as they don't die. Foh.

[@con.troller4183]

@@TheRKae ""Slavery" in Jesus' time was indentured servitude. " Mostly NO. Many bibilcal slaves are totally owned by their masters, as are their wives and children. Yahweh commands his people to take (permanent) sex slaves from vanquished enemies (after slaughtering their families). Even in Roman Judea, slaves were still property. Stop making excuses.

[@rlittlejohn2772]

The words of men, not the words of any God.

[@acp865]

@B D I would love to see concrete evidence. Where is it? I’m not being snide, as I actually want to see it. I want to see something that I can actually feel, not something that I can merely have faith in.

[@acp865]

@B D hey, I asked you a question, so why haven’t you answered me? I’ve looked in many places but there is no evidence. The only claims that I found were merely faith-based, meaning it is not proof. So tell me, where is the proof?

[@sqeptical2307]

Usually when you come across information that is an unrealistic, illogical, unscientific, contradictory mess, the next step isn’t to romanticize and make it useful. The next step is to toss it in the trash.

[@eleven9286]

Realism, logic? What, you're so confident you understand what is real and logical that you can disregard all religion? Foolish. Science, realism logic; one side of the same coin, the other side is spirit, . Science is methodology, not inherently associated with "true", although it shows proofs of the nature of physical and mental happenings. It is extremely useful. BUT it fails and falls completely on its face when facing the most important aspect of our existence; spirituality and consciousness. So, we have religion and philosophy full of symbolism, which synthesizes wisdom of the ages into a symbolic archetype. Ancient wisdom hidden in the occult will help one understand the big picture of our world today. So much to learn.

[@sqeptical2307]

@@eleven9286 Nice pseudo-intellectual rant you got there. No one said you weren’t free to believe in things we have literally zero evidence for, just as long as don’t try to make the rest of us follow suit.

[@abtheflagman]

I knew this when I was 6 years old caused quite the commotion in sunday school. I always felt that the church never understood these interpretation

[@MD99111]

The Bible has been changed in the long period of time, the true Bible was with Jesus Pbuh himself in his time, Quran is the last book to humanity and Islam is the last religion to humanity, in Quran you will find the truth about this life and what is our purpose in this life and what will happened in afterlife.

[@MD99111]

John 20:17 New International Version 17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers(A) and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father(B) and your Father, to my God and your God.’” Matthew 24:36 New King James Version “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. John 5:30 New King James Version I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. Mark 9:37 New King James Version “Whoever receives one of these little children in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me, receives not Me but Him who sent Me.” John 9:3/9:4 New King James Version Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. John 7:33 So Jesus said, "I am with you only a little while longer, and then I am going to the One who sent Me. John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

[@travissharon1536]

@@MD99111 I would love to debate this. I've seen a lot in the old testament that seems to predict Jesus, as God in the flesh. He was the son, but he is one with the father. I'm on the fence about Muhammad, either a prophet or a victim of evil spirits.

[@MD99111]

@@travissharon1536 you can check these verses from the Bible Is Jesus and Father are one? I don't think so, who sucrificed his only begotten son to save humanity, is the one who sucrifice is same as the one who sucrificed, When Jesus died for 3 days, the Father and Holy spirit were alive, so they are not same, who put Jesus in Virgin Mary womb as baby and stayed there for 9 month until bearth, and the Father was the one controlling everything when Jesus was baby, Jesus did some mericles by heeling sick, by reviving dead, by creating bird from soil, but the father created whole universe, all creatures all matters, he created everything from beginning there is no comparison in power, the Father sent Jesus, the one who is sent is not the same as the one who send, John 17 :3 King James Bible And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. As per Jesus here the only true God is the Father that he sent him Jesus pray to the Father, so they are not one God and not same, the father is most superior. No one knows about the hour except the Father even the son Jesus doesn't know, so they are not same.

[@numbernine8571]

COOL STORY, BRO.

[@JoshuaSaundersAtLarge]

A problem with this, is comparing the English "day" word usage in two sentences, when the Hebrew words are different. One refers to a period of time differently, and in some English translations of Genesis 2, they actually used "during the time of" and not "on the day" as a literal single day. So they are more complimentary than contradictory, with no implication of literal sequence in Genesis 2. It's a retelling of the events of "the time". Whether the events are metaphorical or literal is a different debate. Either way, getting hung up on "day=day" as referenced here really misses the point anyway. That said, the Bible is far too often used out of context as a prop on all sides, that is unfortunately true.

[@Elite7555]

Ironically, the fact that the bible is notoriously difficult to faithfully translate makes it all the harder to believe that it is the inspired word of god. Actually, it makes it quite absurd.

[@svenm7264]

Yeah I was wondering about that Because of the phrase "back in the day..." and how even in English, it can be less than literal.

[@allenrhoades8482]

@@Elite7555 , sorry I can interpret your comment several ways so it must therefore be absurd. :) Every language has its level of precision. It is absurd to try to be more precise with the ideas mentioned than the precision that the language allows.

[@erictopp7988]

@@allenrhoades8482 Elite's comment isn't the implied basis of morality for an entire group of people. If you write a text that you expect people to live by, it's absurd and cruel to make it in a way that will inevitably cause confusion and violence among believers and non believers. A religious text should be held to much more rigorous standards than a KZbin comment

[@thedexterbros]

@@Elite7555 (relatively) shortly after this Genesis narrative the difficulty of translating between languages is presented as an intentional punishment from God in the story of the Tower of Babel.

[@rustycherkas8229]

The two rabbis story sounds like the Certs commercial from decades ago: "Certs is a candy mint." "No, Certs is a breath mint." "No, Certs is two mints in one." I didn't realise, at the time, that the narrator for the commercial was actually 'God' (moonlighting, doing voice-overs?) It's all made up and its purpose is to sell something (something you probably don't want or need.) Ford v. Chevy... Coke v. Pepsi... tribalism...

[@rustycherkas8229]

@@butlernov2006 Will I get another if I remind you that onions, although not candy, serve a dual purpose too? :D

[@charlesphillips5723]

Two half nothings equal a whole nothing

[@joshuasiefring5810]

That’s literally the secret in it. It’s about Christ and how that occurs if we seek to know with every ounce of your soul until you see it. Christ is about you being taught by Jesus as he attempts to teach it.

[@douglasrowland3722]

You cain't halve nothin' come from nothin' AND EQUAL NOTHIN-SOMETHIN' !!!!!!! Nothing plus nothing DOES NOT equal NOTHING-SOMETHING !!! do you feel me .............................................................?????????????..................................................

[@oxybenzol9254]

@@joshuasiefring5810 So reading the Bible and believing in God isn't enough. You have to understand the Bible in the right way. Now which of those 100 denominations follows the right path?

[@theresawilliams4296]

@@joshuasiefring5810 See what? That having blind faith is something that has never been proven to be real or true. If religion is so true, why are their so many secrets and riddles in them. Especially yours.

[@joshuasiefring5810]

@@theresawilliams4296 Comparatively, all of the major religions were inspired by previous masters that walked the earth. To see through what you refer to as blind faith you must realize that you must have facilitated a high level of discernment through raising your awareness. You start to see how the words Jesus uses have an arrived at understanding given an etymology and exegesis surrounding them. This shows us we generally don’t have that awareness unless we’ve spent a lifetime devoted to reading and comparing all sacred texts. There is an evolution of conscious that results in developing a vision beyond sight. I’ve used many experts’ opinions and built upon their combined work to arrive at a cosmology that seems to satisfy many ideologies, sciences, religions, etc. Self realization is at the core of all of these including Jesus’ teachings.

[@kenmcclellan]

Two creations. Two eyes of God. One a flood and watery chaos. One a fiery world of dust and ash -- badly in need of rain. Both 2022. History repeats.

[@seniorsurveyor]

While I, as a Christian pastor, lament the lack of Americans who regularly read, and seek understanding of the Bible, Professor Baden is only one more liberal scholar who has lost his way.

[@jimhughes1070]

I beg your pardon sir... That guy is no scholar... He mocked the Bible for 20 minutes displaying his juvenile status and ignorance for all to see... I'm pretty sure the apostles would say he's never been in the "way"

[@dennismagee9486]

Sorry, I came away from this learning nothing. Twenty minutes of babble!

[@thomasshoff6512]

Unless one thinks as a child, he/she is not fit for the kingdom of heaven!

[@JTuaim]

I. The original God is never mentioned as a singularity. Always we the gods. God is not a name, it's a race. The sumerian is the text from which the bible has been written.

[@nevillelamberti]

Did God put us on this earth with the deliberate intention of confusing us ?

[@HondaS-fk1mi]

After all he supposedly confused the languages lmao

[@christopherpaulcaid2259]

yes

[@Nunya_Business_]

I apologize for this taking 2 years to answer, but I just saw this video and your question and felt inspired to reply, which is non-typical in my case as I will not engage in theological debate, but your question seemed earnest and you appear to believe in God. Hopefully, you have already discovered this and made your decision, but if not, here you go. If you are not a lover of the truth, if you will not believe the truth, then this Book will never make sense to you and the heretical and blaspemous utterings of a fool who thinks himself wise will make sense to you. The fool cannot discern what he is reading because he does not believe, so he makes fantastic claims that are untrue, unless you are an unbeliever. The Book says it it is written so that those who do not believe will not understand, by design, as they do not have the Spirit in them, that is the reason for confusion. I understand this as I have lived it. The sinner loves his/her sin, so they chose not to believe, or worse, to change. Atheists have nothing to lose as they never really believed or they changed their mind but probably never really believed, but an agnostic should make a choice if they believe in a creator as they have everything to gain. That is the question you have to answer for yourself, does He exist and do you want to change. The question is always why does He let this happen or that happen, why, why, why. The answer is completely elementary to me, this is a test and you have free will, there are 10 rules you must follow, now chose. Not chosing is an option for the agnostic, it is also a choice. The Book says those that believe and receive the Son, seek redemption and follow the 10 rules will not suffer the second final death, and baptism will cause the spirit to flow into you enabling discernment and preventing delusion, look around you... God Bless

[@nevillelamberti]

@@Nunya_Business_ Thank you.

[@DaPhreshestKidd]

If you know who God is, you'll know that the answer is yes.

[@VirtualBilly]

“The Bible doesn’t say what you think it does.” Goddamn quintessential christian statement right there, even and especially toward other christians.

[@MrBastilleDay]

Yep…that’s how it works with most of them.

[@stereotype5868]

They don't read it.they pay a man to lie to them.

[@chesterwilberforce9832]

I have mad respect for Frank Zappa. Before he felt entitled to criticize Christianity, he read the Bible from cover to cover. Not many people can say that.

[@joshua.merrill]

My entire family is religious and I am atheist. I'm also the only one that has entirely read the Bible. Somewhat ironic. Anytime I bring up weird verses, they're like, "I have a hard time believing that's in the Bible..." And then they read it and have to go pray about it for understanding, a.k.a. forget that it exists.

[@TorianTammas]

@@joshua.merrill No it isn't most Christians I meet are basically Bible illiterate. They have differing copy Jesus loves you or Jesus smites everyone I dislike, but they haven't read it cover to cover nor do they care to do.

[@AGoodBuzz]

I read it twice. Word for word. Cover to cover. It's a mess of contradictions and tales rewritten from much older tales. And today's so-called "Christians" have no idea what Jesus' teachings were and live in opposition to them and don't even know it. And, by the way, Jesus wasn't the only one in the bible who cured the sick and brought someone back from the dead, and Jesus wasn't the only one in the bible who was resurrected.

[@Mark-yb1sp]

Millions of people have read the Bible. It’s not that hard.

[@TorianTammas]

@@Mark-yb1sp Over 60% of all Americans can not cite five of the ten commandments. This was the result of a study done by a religious organization. Not to mention that for decades churches complain about a growing bible illiteracy.

[@Magik1369]

The Bible is a book of ancient mythology. It is not a historical record and has no authority. Yet the problem is not the Bible itself, it is the primitive literal mythic consciousness of those that ascribe divine authority to it.

[@brianfree7675]

Ummm, he played a little game with the 2 Samuel quote that he was not called on. The Original quote included "two women", meaning his two wives, Ahinoam and Abigail. I am not sure this had any sexual connotation.

[@vedinthorn]

I'm sure it certainly didn't.

[@brianfree7675]

@@vedinthorn , would you like that sourced? So, lets start with the Targum. Secondly, he seemed to suggest that there was erotic or homosexual connotations to this verse, an opinion that is supported by other facts.

[@vedinthorn]

@@brianfree7675 supported by pure imagination, frankly.

[@tonycook7679]

@@vedinthorn like the whole bible. If you like it you might like the story of King Arthur and the knights of the round table, that's a good yarn too.

[@vedinthorn]

@@tonycook7679 thanks for saying one of the more ignorant things I've read this week.

[@peskyfervid6515]

Every culture on earth has a creation myth. Why can we not accept this as a creation myth? It is a myth that explains human consciousness. There is nothing good or bad about it. It is merely the attempt of an early people to explain to themselves why they have self-awareness.

[@con.troller4183]

Exactly. The Garden of Eden story is when humans realized their personal mortality. It's about evolving self awareness and personal responsibility.

[@davidahlers4324]

Believe what you want. I find the Bible and it's not always easy to understand Teachings to be a comfort in MY Life. Life can get very difficult and I believe God Jesus is looking over all of us and died for our sins. His Love Mercy and Grace are there for us. Bless the Lord 🙏❤️ Amen

[@paavobergmann4920]

I always thought the two stories told more about the development of the human consciousness, and the relation of humans to their environment, than about the structure and development of the physical world. I think it never even aimed at providing a physical account of how the physical world came about. And the two stories are about different aspects of what goes on inside humans/humanity

[@con.troller4183]

@@davidahlers4324 It's not easy to0 understand because it contradicts itself and is full of false claims which cannot be tested. Just because it makes you feel good doesn't mean it's right. Sugary treats make you feel good too. But they rot your teeth and destroy your body.

[@Gk2003m]

The answer to your question: people cannot accept it as mere myth when their eternity depends on believing it to be something more than mere myth.

[@jsamc]

People who see contradictions the Bible don't know the bible.

[@watching95]

He miss titled his video. It should have been, “The Bible Doesn’t Say What I Think It Does.”

[@richardwilliams5387]

Sneaky bit of religious apologism here. Lol. "The bible should still be the authority, but let's be careful with it" Also the 80 percent belief in bible figure is misleading at best, "None" is the fastest growing answer in polling in the US when the question is "What religion are you?".

[@TheDizzleHawke]

@XICODECOPA while I agree with you, perhaps you should spellcheck your comment before cut/pasting it all over the threads.

[@thebourg]

Stumbled across this and wanted to pick it apart but had to watch the whole thing, he makes a lot of great points and mostly important is that people use the Bible to hammer home their views instead of relying on the truth of God's word and allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through the Word

[@asecretturning]

Gross

[@user-sv5oh1pp1t]

Right on! Im all for it youre right we need to call upon the Lord when reading these old words. Its important this time in age not to fall for misinterpretations of the Bible that are often so misconstrued. Historical context is a biggie! People don't care about history and historical norms on a grand scale even though it has everything to do with the cause of how and why we got to this reality where the world we live in right now has never experienced such a global reign of peace in comparison to the rest of human history.

[@davidhoffman6980]

My biggest pet peeve with Christians is when they say "the Bible says..." when they should say "Paul said..." or "The book of Exodus says..." and act like that is an idea that the entire Bible espouses, when it may not be. My second biggest pet peeve is when they take a promise or quote directed at one man, and present it as applying to everyone. For example, after Moses died, God spoke personally to Joshua and gave him a speech that pertained to him alone. God told him that he would conquer the entire promised land, that no man would ever be able to withstand him, and that he would keep the law his whole life. Lastly, God reminded Joshua that he commanded him to be strong and courageous, because God would be with Joshua wherever he went.. Christians will so often quote Joshua 1:9 out of context and act like God was promising every person ever, that he would be with all of them everywhere they go. And before someone says "but God is omnipresent; of course he's with everyone." Either some of the biblical authors didn't know that, or you are misinterpreting what the biblical authors meant when they said God was with someone. 1 Samuel, 18:12 "And Saul was afraid of David, because the Lord was with him, and was departed from Saul." Saul displeased God; therefore God "departed" from him. God promised Joshua that he would never depart from him. One might as well say "the Bible says 'put to death men and women, children and infants'." Technically it does, but that's hardly an instruction for everyone who reads it. In short, please stop saying "the Bible says" and please stop presenting promises/instructions/rhetorical questions that were directed at one person, as if they were directed at everyone. Thanks.

[@lauroandrea3241]

That's why we study the Bible, rightly dividing the word of truth! Yes idiots claim promises and rules from previous covenants.

[@lauroandrea3241]

My biggest pet peeve is people who shun the condemnation part and quote only for the warm hugs: the cheap gracers.

[@arthouston7361]

You are going to have to stay "peeved." The Bible, the whole thing...is God's Word. Second Timothy 3:16 and 17. Check it out.

[@davidhoffman6980]

@@arthouston7361 You got me. Lol

[@michaelburk2470]

@@arthouston7361 "The Bible, the whole thing...is God's Word... It says so in the Bible!" (ugh. Quran says the same thing; does that make it true? Check it out)

[@tooaskew2558]

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Adam and Eve were created at the same time as one person. The rib story is where God separated them. This professor of the Bible doesn’t seem to know what’s in it. Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

[@DaCrazyJalapeno]

Huh.... then how do you explain all the other differences....? Its clear you cant try to interpret it to say that both stories are saying the same thing.

[@-win-]

80% wow no wonder the place is so mucked up

[@jimhughes1070]

Yep... That's all you need is one devil... Telling everybody do your own thing 🤣🤣🤣 that guy is way more confused than even I know... And I know he's pretty dang confused

[@alexae1367]

Worrrrd🥴🥴😑😶

[@alexae1367]

Curious where u hail from?

[@gibmattson1217]

The Bible is myth from cover to cover. Religion is myth given as literal truth. What the myths mean is the interesting bit...

[@dizzlesmith4502]

Idk if I'd go that far, the new testament(in my opinion) is all sunworship, but the old testament i believe may have been loosely based on actual events that people of that time may not have fully understood. For example, they just found evidence of a meteor impact in greenland, which at that time was buried beneath 2 miles of ice, around 12,000 years ago, which lines up precisely with the legends of a global flood as well as the story of Noah's ark, and im sure to have witnessed it at the time one would probably think that it was a global flood, they just didn't have the knowledge that we have today to assist in identifying these "biblical" events.

[@michaelwill7811]

There would be a few interesting counters to your claim "myth from cover to cover: According to the Smithsonian Department of Anthropology: "Much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories. These Biblical records can be and are used as are other ancient documents in archeological work. For the most part, historical events described took place and the peoples cited really existed. This is not to say that names of all peoples and places mentioned can be identified today, or that every event as reported in the historical books happened exactly as stated." According to National Geographic: "...our staff archeologist, Dr. George Stuart said that archaeologists do indeed find the Bible a valuable reference tool, and use it many times for geographical relationships, old names and relative chronologies..." For anyone interested, here is additional proof that the Bible is not a "cover to cover myth": amazingbibletimeline.com/blog/q9_historical_proof_bible/

[@TheLizardOfOz]

@@dizzlesmith4502 " they just found evidence of a meteor impact in greenland, ... around 12,000 years ago, which lines up precisely with the legends of a global flood as well as the story of Noah's ark" Well, no. The bible dates Noah's flood to around 2350 BCE which is less than 4,400 years ago, so no, it doesn't line up 'precisely', or at all, in fact. The flood myth of the bible may be a distortion of an earlier event, but I doubt an impact in Greenland would cause a flood in Palestine.

[@TroublezAhead00]

@@dizzlesmith4502 Also if you think the New Testment is disguised sun worship then you really haven't read it and it shows. And the part that could be misconstrued as such is literally like less than 5 percent of all the New Testament. You may be confusing the organized catholic religion aspect of it, that yes, hundreds of years later, tied in former pagan rites and rituals to better assimilate the surrounding regions easier, but even then that is still a gross over-simplification.

[@philippedecraene663]

I think the problem Is no matter if you believe in the Bible or not there is a problem. If it is true the devil got us blinded by the lies since the beginning & that's why everybody is confused. If the Bible itself is a lie then the ones who decided to use this tool to manipulate our universal & collective believes are evil wicked & know what they're doing." We are in 2019 because God sent his son on Earth to save us "... One more think I'm just saying what I think Im just a seeker of the truth & I'm open to anything that will get me closer to that.

[@danielpaulson8838]

Saving Jesus from the Christians is what I think of. That's a tough one.

[@ramaraksha01]

Yes Jesus came down to preach love for all mankind - but Christians have used him to preach division and hate. "Heaven only if you follow Jesus" That means billions of Atheists, Hindus, Buddhists will find themselves as Jews in Nazi Germany in the after life. Condemned for their beliefs & dumped into gas chambers in hell! And they can PROMOTE SUCH NAZI IDEAS OPENLY! That is what is really frightening!

[@l_cuzzo_l1214]

Sad thing is the plot twist that's to come, the so called anti christ that comes will be the next sage for the next age of involution for humanity and the "Christians" are going to kill that person due to ignorance

[@ramaraksha01]

@@l_cuzzo_l1214 Amazing to see grown adults discussing the Cinderella story as if it is real Sir, you need to live in the REAL WORLD that God made for us - a REAL WORLD with real problems that need ordinary humans to step up and solve - not hope for a magic knight in shining armor to come save us damsels in distress

[@l_cuzzo_l1214]

@@ramaraksha01 who said i believe in the cinderalla story lol. I do live in the real world there is no knight in shining armor coming on a damn cloud to save us i know this already

[@tegunn]

@@ramaraksha01 yep that's the way it goes. If you have complaints bring it up with Jesus on judgment. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 No one else.

[@horizonsofthought3005]

That was a gloriously excellent talk. It contains at its core an argument I have been making now over hundreds of conversations for several decades now. It is a joy to see it so coherently made in a short 20-minute video. We are, as it were, meant to wrestle with God continuously.

[@nicholas8479]

That's a waste of time and a source of division. If there was a god, his instructions would be unambiguous.

[@cajunboy67]

I would argue that the Bible is a window on how people thought in a world that has long since passed, and nothing more.

[@travis1240]

Or not. If people admit that it's just words written by people then the whole thing becomes more clear.

[@nilpo]

"The Bible supports slavery..." Wow, you literally missed the entire point. The entire text of the Bible is about freeing slaves.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

Did you watch the whole video?

[@nilpo]

@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg Yes

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

@@nilpo then you missed the point. (Ironically). The whole video was about the difference between treating the scripture as a conversation and using it as a prop. If you use it as a prop, you can use it to justify slavery. Go back and watch the video again, maybe.

[@nilpo]

@@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg Your synopsis of the video aside, there's no way to use the Bible to justify slavery regardless of how you choose to use it. The entirety of scripture is about freeing those who are slaves to sin. It's not an interpretation. It actually says it.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

@@nilpo the bible literally WAS used to justify slavery, so your point is irrelevant - but I'm not here to argue it with you, I was just pointing out that you missed the point of the video

[@elgar104]

Love how he lays out very nicely the evidence for why this book was man made, but rather than alight on that obvious conclusion, he reinvents God to try to explain the massive plot holes away. For the record.....Genesis was one of the later books to be written. Definitely not the first. So don't imply this by saying 'right from the off....'. Genesis was largely plageurised from Persian tradition. And without a literal take on genesis and the fall of man... there is no reason for Christianity and nothing to atone for. Occams razor. If it looks like the poorly edited work of ignorant men borrowing from the religions of their conquerors.... that's what it is.

[@CRUCIFi777]

Prove your claims and disprove that the book you disparage wasn’t compiled and written by Moses himself.

[@elgar104]

@@CRUCIFi777you actually think Moses was a real person....? Oh my sides.

[@wade8813]

Do you really think a human couldn't have fixed at least the really obvious "plot holes"?

[@xXDarkxIdealsXx]

@@elgar104 You're so dug into your ignorance that it's astonishing. You wanna-be faux intellectual atheists are just the epitome of hubris and hypocrisy. Yes, Moses was a real person. He was a royal advisor named Tutmoses (Later removing the Tut that linked him to the Egyptian god Seth.) roughly coinciding to the time of the Amarna period (a.k.a. the reign of Pharaoh Akhenaten. Who....surprise surprise, was the one and only semi-successful attempt to reform Egypt into a monotheistic religion. Wonder where he got that idea...). They found his staff, on the path the exodus took, behind a secret cave behind Petra marked with the symbol of a serpent heavily associated with Moses. and it's on display in the British museum. Go actually earn a degree in ancient near-east religion or bronze age history before trying to act like a pompous prick.

[@elgar104]

@@wade8813 I don't think plot holes are an issue if you think you're obviously writing fiction. And these authors were. Later editors have tried to do their best. Bless...

[@aletheuo475]

Sorry to be rude, but I feel sick. The absence of logic in this and the bleakness of outlook are so sad and so unnecessary. I hope I can offer some clarity. -1 His claim that Gen 1 and 2 are different stories. We KNEW that already! This is a beautiful fact that has been known and appreciated by theologians for centuries. The name for God changes, details are repeated and the focus and genre are clearly different. But should this make us doubt the coherency between the two texts? Not necessarily. It should cause us to consider why they differ; does it demonstrate contrariety (not contradictions since we are not dealing with Euclidean axioms here) or a deliberate change in perspective so that the same narrative can be viewed from different angles? The second possibility must be at least considered. -2 That the narrative is not a perfect scientific account of Creation. We KNOW! Just because the story doesn't fit our model of a concise, systematic treatise, this does not mean that the facts contained therein are historically untrue. -3 That the different passages contain contrary messages. You wouldn't say that the statements, 'Mary put the kettle on', and, 'A woman called Mary lived in Boston' are contradictory just because the focus, time period and familiarity are different. Just so we shouldn't say that the statements, 'God created man and woman' and 'God created man, and then He created woman from the man' are contrary. We don't have to say that the statement, 'Eve was made as a helper for Adam' is contrary to their both being made in the image of God any more than tea is made both for pleasure and for hydration. Animals also can both exist for their own sake as a joy to God, and for the utility of humanity, just as cars exist both to be used as tools and to be enjoyed as experiences. The idea that God can only have one purpose behind His works is frankly ridiculous. -4 As for all the individual 'contradictions' he points out, I can't be bothered to go through them all, but suffice it to say that most of them are very weak. The only one that made me stop for a moment was where it seems to say that God created the animals both before and after Adam. Try reading the ESV rendering of the text however, and the unity of Scripture is revealed, "...God HAD formed every beast..." In Hebrew this phrase is in the pluperfect, suggesting that the action had already been completed. The event that is being spoken of is God bringing the beasts to Adam to see what he would name them. Finally, his conclusion is faulty. The idea that the Bible is just about religious pluralism is so hilariously 21st Century America I cannot believe this guy is considered a scholar. Throughout the whole Bible you will find a unity and coherency which is beyond belief for what he claims is a cobbled together pile of opinions and musings. One of the main themes is Truth - exclusive, singular truth which cannot be mixed or made plural. The whole thing points to Christ, the Redeemer of the World, the One who died to atone for the sins of Adam, and to replace him as the figurehead of humanity. He rose from death to restore the broken creation, and it is only through this Truth, THE Truth, that anyone can be saved from eternal death to eternal life. No amount of dialogue can do that. God bless you all. SOLI DEO GLORIA.

[@user-or4ut2qi3q]

Cool. Do you think the ESV is the best translation for a beginner who wants to study the Bible? I was raised as an atheist but recently I've felt something unexplainable which has led me to the Bible and I've found a certain truth so far which is impossible to explain to others. They just think I'm crazy. Only thing is, the NKJV is very hard to read and I find I'm constantly doing internet searches to understand the text because I don't speak old English hahahaha. What kind of bible would you recommend? Would a study bible be helpful or is it better to lean on just the text of the Bible?

[@punisherlee]

Your conclusion is fantastically put together. The Bible isn't a book of pluralism. Though the Bible records good and bad things that happen (because it is recording history), it is clear what the Bible's stance on those issues are. There is one truth, singular, THE TRUTH, and that truth is *The Redemptive Work of Christ* and the things which proceed from it.

[@mcgubligan5045]

Complete, nonsensical tosh from beginning to end. It is a fact that the Gen 1 and Gen 2 accounts cannot both be true. In fact, neither is true, whether historically, factually or scientifically. If you value the truth as you say you do, you should begin by acknowledging this, instead of presenting this weak, tendentious obfuscation - all in the name of your Christian faith, when this is largely irrelevant to the topic at hand. You have nothing of value to offer, and you demonstrate this at great length. You are arguing against propositions that have not been made in the talk - where did Joel Baden, for example, make the claim that 'God can only have one purpose behind His works'? You can believe whatever you like. What you cannot do is argue that the entire Bible - 'the whole thing points to Christ, the Redeemer of the World' - from the evidence available.

[@punisherlee]

@@mcgubligan5045 Actually, I can. In the volume of the book, there are many voices, many stories, but there is a direction provided by Jesus Himself. In John 5:39, Jesus says that the scriptures testify of Him. In Luke 22:24-27, Jesus explains the Bible to His disciples. Interestingly, He doesn't explain the whole Bible, but only the parts speaking about Himself. In Luke 24:44-48, Jesus reiterates the fact that He is the central focus of the scriptures. In giving them direction to preach and teach all nations, they were to teach about the Christ. You can find videos talking about the events that point to Christ from the Old Testament, but the truth remains that the Bible has a multiplicity of voices but one message. If you miss Christ, you have missed the Bible. For even Christ said, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day".

[@mcgubligan5045]

@@punisherlee In matters of faith, you pick and choose the evidence that you believe bolsters your position, disregarding anything which does not. The evidence against your position is that people of eg the Jewish faith simply do not agree with your interpretation. The writers of the Gospels were evangelists, ie people who wanted to convert others to Christianity, and as such their accounts disagree at crucial points with one another. Their accounts cannot be used to prove, in any coherent, rational sense, the proposition that the entire Bible points to Jesus and his ministry. We cannot trust gospel accounts of eg the sermon on the mount as a literal sermon - scholars agree that they are a collection of sayings Jesus might have uttered at different times. Jesus may or may not have believed that the OT personally referred to him, but we only have the inconsistent reports of Christian propagandists that this was the case. Not a strong argument.

[@heidifarstadkvalheim4952]

The bible is writen by old men, many hundred years after the so called Jesus lived. How can ANYONE say that it represent the trought ???? .. as we say in scandinavia : its homemade

[@PurpleChevron]

Great presentation. As a lifelong atheist, I have always maintained that the value in the Bible is available as metaphor and parable, and even as a look into the metaphysical roots of the human psyche and culture. It doesn't need to be literally true for there to be some value to it, and that's a good thing, since it is very evidently not possible for it to be literally true.

[@theodoremartin6153]

The big secret that has been kept from you materialists is that your entire world view has been buttressed by a million mile long series of assumptions to make your world view possible. If you ever get into the Nay sayers like Dr. James Tour , scientist extraordinaire , you ( well not you blind atheists ) will have to spend the rest of your life screaming enraged at your monitor because this whole friggin universe takes uncountable miracles just to exist .

[@PurpleChevron]

@@theodoremartin6153 lol. James Tour is the man you hold up here? Alrighty. Have a good day bud.

[@theodoremartin6153]

@@PurpleChevron ....well....I tried .(Bud crushes out cigar in super educated liberals forehead , twirls cane , strolls away)

[@PurpleChevron]

@@theodoremartin6153 you realize your response to me had nothing at all to do with my comment, right? When you use words like "worldview" and "blind atheists" you lose people. My "worldview" is based upon a preponderance of evidence and scientific inquiry. All of us have to presume somethings in order to operate, but all I must presume is that my cognition is not the result of some fabrication and that reality is not just a great big subjective illusion. The rest I can either deduce, infer or observe empirically, or I cannot know. It's just that simple.

[@theodoremartin6153]

@@PurpleChevron More psychobable. Look , science boy . Just go on youtube and do every demon calling , cat slaughtering , black mass ritual you can find . Do 2 a day for a whole year . Then once your life is destroyed you will know through cause and effect that materialism is false . Then you can call out to Jesus Christ to save you from yourself and He will . So give it the old college try ! What could possibly go wrong . And get rid of the psychobable .

[@TIm_Bugge]

Hmmm... To the right of the video, among the recommended videos, is found a video bemoaning scientific illiteracy. Could it be that these idealogical and cultural wars can be mediated by literacy in general?

[@slowpainful]

I think that's a huge part of it. I feel the public has been de-educated systematically, and although I'm not a conspiracy theorist, it's hard to avoid the suspicion that this has been strategic. Many people thought updates about Covid-19 precautions were "flip-flopping" that proved you can't trust science; those who understand even a little about how science works understood that information is updated to include new data.

[@jimhughes1070]

Well I've seen the other video by Tyson... The most you can ever get out of him is how stupid religious people are... I've never seen him offer up any science or scientific literature... Or even a science experiment... I think the science Guy might be even smarter than him... Except the science Guy always steps out of his area of expertise... Not being 13 and a half billion years old he don't know shinola 🤣🤣🤣

[@Lunnimal]

Both Genesis 1 and 2 are both true. Genesis 1 is merely an overview of the entire creation, while Genesis 2 is a more in depth account of what occurred on day 6 in the garden. These accounts absolutely do not contradict each other.

[@lindafitzhugh8131]

Thank you that’s just what I was going to write bless you xx

[@zengalileo]

I'm not a bad bible apologist but when ch 2 uses the phrase "on the day..." I always understood it to be simply using the word day in a different way and not a reference to any particular fore mentioned creative day. So on day one I bought bread, day two I bought wine. (Now let's say Much later I would tell the story thus): Many years ago, on the day when I bought the wine and bread and we lived life so freely and we married and had children. Oh what a day that was.... It's a little silly for an academic to pretend he doesn't know this, even worse if he really doesn't know this. It's about tense. In what tense was the word day used in ch 1 vs the tense it was used in ch 2.

[@jimhughes1070]

May I just add this little thought... He is not an intellectual,.. at least in the sense of being intelligent.... It's just me personally but I think he knew exactly what he was doing... Destroying the credibility of the Bible by making up lies and setting up straw Men to tear down to make himself look smart... And then brought in the devil's doctrines to complete the picture of "an angel of light"

[@matvyger7665]

An interesting way to turn nothing into something. The chapters vary and contradict because they were written by different people at different times. They are variations on myths and stories from the area. That’s all they are. Imho!

[@edwardmiessner6502]

What the speaker said at the very beginning shows that we are further gone as a country than I thought.

[@ruthietreselan]

No we are not....he is ignorant and his speech is filled with errors

[@ruthietreselan]

@Kokichi World Order it doesn't take a scholar to see the errors go study yourself

[@ruthietreselan]

@Kokichi World Order I am not watching it again ....I cannot list everything in bible he needs to correct but it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE..YOU CAN CALL YOUR OWN CHURCH LEADERS ANDCHECK.....THE BIBLE DOES NOT TEACH POLYGOMY OR HOMOSEXUALITY.....even non Christians know this...you can google words straight out of the mouth of Jesus and he condems Sodomy and Jesus said out of his mouth marriage is one man one woman......the old testament condems this too....the Bible shows the culture of the day not just God's commandments....culture back then some men had more than one wife...but bible says marriage is one man one woman....God told the kings to not get multiple wives but they did it anyway some of it was political.....Yale is part of the deep state it is not the place to get good info on bible the deep state pushes homosexuality on everyone...

[@ruthietreselan]

@Kokichi World Order prove it dear....it's in ten commandments it's in old mosaic law it's out of Jesus mouth in NT.....everyone even non Christians know this...

[@terrlaw328]

@@ruthietreselan You would be wise to educate yourself beyond the 8th grade level. You are a very ignorant person who knows nothing of the Bible…let alone politics. Get over it…there is no deep state and your orange headed nut is a loser 1

[@jlmadd]

Humans wrote this book. There’s no truth is the truth. We all live and die. Everything else is theologically/theories thus why all there is is PERSPECTIVE

[@JWest-so8ok]

Takes 5 days to create this huge planet and only ONE day (day 4) to create the sun, moon, and stars. That make sense.

[@hewhomustnotbenamed5912]

A classic example of religion's egocentrism.

[@souldesire5932]

@Brandon Johnson The sun, moon, and stars are dead?? Not quite..

[@binomesprite7829]

@Brandon Johnson So there's no other life anywhere else?

[@jimhughes1070]

It does if you're bigger than the universe and you live outside of time space and matter... And have total control and a master plan... Makes a lot more sense than a giant explosion from nothing... creating everything,..🤣🤣🤣

[@binomesprite7829]

@@jimhughes1070 You have been indoctrinated... seek help. Your ideas are childish and silly.

[@vedinthorn]

The Bible doesn't say what he thinks it does either, which is a little ironic.

[@larrycarter3765]

The fiction seems quite clear to me.

[@gilian2587]

So... secularist viewpoint -- this is not divine truth, this isn't even a coherent message, chuck it? I am in your camp.

[@TJ-kk5zf]

Let's Go Brandon!,,, o wait, JoeL BAden!...

[@jeffsmith9384]

A couple of the audience look like they're going to pull a pitchfork out from under their chair and rush the stage

[@jongoessling1245]

Great talk and nails a significant issue for religion in the west, not just the US. Literalism unwittingly and unnecessarily steers so many people away from the richness and wisdom of the Bible. Ironically, Scripture could give much guidance to many if it had not become so ridiculous through fundamentalism.

[@markuse3472]

Regardless, GOD had it written for a reason and with a purpose and it will not return to him without it being completely fulfilled. People can have their preferences and biases and even prejudices towards the Bible, but it wont matter because GOD is the one with the final word. Take a look around the world and all the madness happening, mostly all Godless people. "The Great Tribulation" is surely coming, soon.

[@markpkessinger]

@@markuse3472 -- What is your evidence that God "had it written?"

[@markuse3472]

@@markpkessinger I can surely tell you evolution is the biggest lie ever told and taught as a fact, and can tell you aliens/extraterrestrials are a lie, too, with no real evidence for them. How? Because I, ME, have done MY research. I can give you volumes of evidence that The Bible must be The Word of God but then again, just as I have done for years with many others, they keep saying "no, that's not evidence enough," and that will be your opinion, too. Look it up yourself, just about all things (not all) are right here on KZbin. "DNA gives evidence for God" etc. There are Many videos on the matter, regarding science, history, archaeology, physics, astrophysics, geology, and more, with the Only none bias, none prejudice science backing it all up: mathematics.

[@Gra1i1ude]

@@markuse3472 The great tribulation coming soon? That's been said for millenia, what would you call soon? If you want to know the truth, go and sit quietly in nature, let your ego go, be with what is, and not what you think. Peace, and a deeper understanding can be yours. We are a part of everything, we need to experience that. You may find a deeper connection with your creator that way.

[@markpkessinger]

@@markuse3472 - Before you can show me evidence that the Bible is the word of God, you first have to show evidence - and not merely faith-based assertions, but objective, independently verifiable evidence - that God exists, and that you cannot do.

[@jodytheartist]

What a mess… he had me at first, then I realized he was using the Bible in such a way to philosophy about what he thinks.

[@dcw56]

This is very much what I thought. For a couple minutes I was listening to learn something, then realized, this guy is not teaching anything. He is expounding upon himself. If he can't tell the difference in contradiction (as he says exists between ch 1 and ch 2 of Genesis) to the two ways of saying much the same thing, ch 1 being "Just the facts, Ma'am", and ch 2 being more in the manner of certain details to round out the corners of the facts, then he is a poor person to be giving this speech. HE is the one who does not understand Scripture. Especially the type in the early Hebrew which is often in this manner of "Point one, then expansion on the idea, and often point one again. Yes, this was a mess.

[@cajunboy67]

@@dcw56 No, he was giving you an introduction to the multiple authorship theory of the Pentateuch. Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 have two different authors, stitched together by a redactor. This occurs in many places in the first five books (except for Deuteronomy, which has one author). This idea is commonly accepted as true among the majority of Bible scholars.

[@toddscallan8781]

This guy is a hustler. He reminds me of a high school kid talking to middle school kids about what life is all about without ever leaving his mother's basement. It just hilarious.

[@funidertplayfrol188]

people pay money to hear what they wish would be true. That is they dont want god ... :(

[@Flughafenkaiser]

You can pay money to every religion to hear what you want. What religion does not have a monetary connection of some form to preach its beliefs? Even obscure religious sects want money from its following. To light a candle in a catholic church to say a prayer costs money and they call it " an offering" as opposed to a payment. The only and nearest non monetary connection to prayer in a religious context was by Martin Luther who said the connection to God and Jesus was through the heart of an individual and not through Roman church rules of payment to the Vatican to secure a place in heaven.

[@oatmiser3110]

​@@Flughafenkaiser Your thoughts are quite ridiculous. Where exactly do I buy tickets to go to catholic church (not to mention a prayer offering is literally just the prayer OFFERED for something and there is no payment whatsoever)? Do I need to make a reservation to prostrate myself in my room and perform salah? Can I pay a rabbi to throw out a whole book from the torah? Certain faiths are about your submission to God, and they do include giving money. That is because life is about community, so you should want to help others so God tells them to. Atheism has no claim on morality yet people like you aren't willing to be antisocial, why is that? Religious people believe like they do because they focus on big picture, spiritual things that hold much greater importance than things on earth. Atheists only care about the physical world and focus in on other problems. If there was one God that everyone knew was real and everyone knew what commandments to follow, there would still be people who refuse to submit to them because they simply don't want to. The ideas of liberalism and materialistic freedom of the modern world are incompatible with what religions are about, so as you've probably heard before, I will choose the better one based on pascal's wager.

[@dacritter8397]

Nearly 80%??????? No freakin' way... that can't be correct.

[@BorisNoiseChannel]

Of course it's a problem; No Intelligent creator god would ever convey its most important message to humanity in such a manner. (Not if this deity is supposedly benevolent as well, that is).

[@mnm8818]

correct God/s could be malevolent but whos to judge if God is real. Though I know one thing - no one will be correct about their idea of God when they meet it.

[@BorisNoiseChannel]

@@mnm8818 _"Who's to judge_ (whether or not a god is malevolent) _if god is real"_ ? We are, of course. Or are you saying that might makes right? Said: _"I know one thing - no one will be correct about their idea of God when they meet it."_ To _know_ that you need to know every god-idea ever conceived of by any human that ever existed _and_ know that this god isn't that, right? How could you know that? (or maybe you mean we could never have a complete picture of every characteristic of this god, which would make it a platitude, cause we don't even have such an extensive picture of _ourselves_ as a human being).

[@mnm8818]

@@BorisNoiseChannel Yeah the judge God thing is more of a expectation from my thinking or its just a word not too say you can't negotiate/ discuss with God. Can't judge God and get a sentencing on his "bad" "good" behaviour unless we are more powerful then it and control what's "right". Bible God could be Lucifer since he's the ultimate deceiver king of Earth. As you sort of implied, how can we trust our own brain, feelings, life etc (This might be more for God believers) well as all religious texts seem to be made by man or atleast written by them. So you have to believe man not God... Exactly like a salesman selling a car neither of yous have seen. You have to trust that they are selling you a red sports car but in the end you get a white van. Still a vehicle but none of you saw it Maybe read a vague poster about it.

[@mnm8818]

@@BorisNoiseChannel I guess I'm the person if there's proof of God that isn't all goodie I'd believe it still. Eg. after I die I won't be telling that God off if I'm not punished. Cause truth is truth no matter what I or anyone believes. Ofcourse Christians believe a hungry death, torture, blood God without solid proof even...

[@BorisNoiseChannel]

@@mnm8818 We weren't talking about believing in this god (of course I'd believe so too if there's sufficient evidence for it); we were talking about _judging_ this god's benevolence/malevolence, right?

[@brettneuberger6466]

Using it as a prop? Outrageous! Who would do such a thing?

[@aaronwalterryse4281]

televangelists

[@panama-canada]

The Bible is the collection of books. Not just one book.

[@toddscallan8781]

66 books. Broken into 2 parts one being The Old Testament and New Testament. You have too understand the how the history of the Jewish people relates to a new way of reaching God.

[@TheRKae]

Speaker: "Most Americans don't know what's in the Bible." Audience laughs. Here's what I do for fun... People tell me: "I think science is the greatest thing ever." Me: "Can you tell me how many suns are in our solar system?" People: "...Huh? I dunno. A billion?" Me: "Can you tell me what galaxy you live in?" People: "...Huh?" Me: "Big fan of science, huh?" Why use the public's knowledge as a gauge for anything?

[@davidcloyd1296]

You probably already know Hugh Ross and William lane Craig, but I’m just getting my eyes opened by these guys to how science is falling in line with scripture

[@bjhcvuaerpigfy]

@@davidcloyd1296 When you take one scientist who says x and ignore the 99% of other scientists (or whatever vast majority it is) who say y, without any other reason apart from "because you wanted it to be x" you are just being intellectually dishonest. You are not trying to find the truth, you are just trying to defend your preconceived beliefs. Science is not and will never fall in line with scripture. Whenever science goes into battle with scripture, science always wins. science always corrects scripture, scripture never corrects science. there is not one thing about the world we live in, that we both agree is fact, that we have learnt that it is fact from scripture. If we know it as fact, we learnt it as fact from science.

[@davidcloyd1296]

@@bjhcvuaerpigfy so Columbus was wrong when he disagreed with the 99% that believed the world was flat? Science has now broken with the old consensus that the universe was eternal and has now definitively concluded that time, space and our universe had a beginning. It’s “beginner” exists outside of time and space. You are the one clinging to outdated religious beliefs in atheism when the science points to God.

[@bjhcvuaerpigfy]

@@davidcloyd1296 I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have been lied to. this lie that "scientists all now believe that everything started at the big bang and that there was nothing before it" is just a lie. It's a lie that people like William lying Craig tell, as they know people like you will believe it without checking and they know they can sell you the "something from nothing" argument, which sounds good to anyone (like yourself) who wants to believe. For the rest of us who want to know the truth and will look a little closer, the mistakes become pretty clear rather fast. On my last count, there were 4 major mistakes in the "something from nothing" argument. (I can explain them to you if you are open to the truth) Following is a link showing Sean Carroll being interview about the big bag. Sean Carroll is one of the better-known cosmologists out there. At 5:15 he clearly shows that what you have been told is a lie (It is a lie from people like WLC as we have clear evidence of him being told during debates that this is not what scientists believe, yet he carries on telling the lie). kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJjTp3auebFqp5Y The real question is: what are you going to do now that you have been shown that you have been lied to? If you really believed in the truth you would be thinking WTF? what else have I been lied to about? But this is not what you are going to do, is it???? No, you are going to find some way to hand-wave it away, so that you can hang onto your beliefs. You are not interested in the truth, you are only interested in hanging onto your beliefs. Ps Columbus never thought the world was flat. This is another little lie you have been told. just google it.

[@bjhcvuaerpigfy]

@@davidcloyd1296 The only reason you want science to prove your bible is that you know that science has by far the best record of getting it right. When we look around us we can see a gazillion things we know thanks to science (this doesn't mean that they get it right every time, but when they are corrected, it is science that does the correcting). We both know that nothing compares to science for telling us about the world around us. Unfortunately for you, science also shows the bible for what it is: a bunch of made-up stories.

[@rogerlane474]

To present the statement that David loved Jonathan in such a perverted way shows this guys "true" nature. He's as evil as his father, the twister of truths! Men can often relate better to one another. That doesn't mean that they're having sexual relations. Would two brothers that really love each other let their relationship be destroyed by a woman? Not if they were smart! Next he'll be twisting the "No greater love" scripture into perversion.

[@rogerlane474]

I wonder why people believe the Bible is God inspired? 2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness This guy is not fit to teach anything from the scriptures. I can't bring myself to listen to any more of his nonsense!

[@rogerlane474]

@Nad Senoj Are you a Jew? Has the resurrection of our Christ been in vain? Is one woman not enough trouble for any rationally thinking man? Please think with something besides your penis. The lust of your heart is showing through. What would you call a woman that wants a bunch of different penises? Might I suggest that you take a long look into the mirror?

[@angelosophy]

Well if you actually listened to what the man was saying, he was making the point that both sides of the aisle use the Bible to advance their own agenda. They use it as a prop to justify their own beliefs. So now you have twisted the truth in what youve said by claiming that this man is presenting the David and Jonathan story as perverted, because hes not. Hes telling us how other people have presented it as such.

[@angelosophy]

@Nad Senoj Polygamy is not voted the best way to marry by the Bible, its actually painted in a pretty poor light. Read between the lines and you’ll see that the consequences of polygamy are actually pretty bad for those that involve themselves. E.g. Jealous wives, insatiable husbands, fractured siblings that rival each other, polygamy is shown to be a pretty sad thing that God put up with for so long.

[@rogerlane474]

@@angelosophy We must be watching a completely different video.

[@Flughafenkaiser]

Yes. Only American analysis and percentages regarding the Bible is relevant in the world today. It says so in the Bible somewhere.

[@rr7firefly]

What is so special about this country? Its history belies its self-image as being blessed by God. Take the atrocities committed under slavery as just one example. Add to that all the discriminatory practices against other ethnic groups.

[@Flughafenkaiser]

@@rr7firefly What is special is America has no understanding of Irony or paradoxes, hence it is oblivious to everyone and everything and applies common sense on a convenient basis to make life work in specific kaleidoscopes of its own choosing. Example, to quote American poet Emily Dickinson... "Because I could not stop for death, He kindly stopped for me, the carriage held but just ourselves and Immortality. " This is how America sees death and despair , as something to entertain itself with and not as something intended for American people. Death is seen as a service to assist rather than to take life away , like a convenient commodity for leisure and easily affordable. Therefore the Bible means what American people want it to mean. You can only fully grasp this concept if you are non American. Hence the Irony.

[@rr7firefly]

@@Flughafenkaiser Thank you for that expository comment. I really like hearing what intelligent people have on their minds. The diamond and its many facets...

[@danaharper9708]

The bible is useful if one wants to understand the ancient traditions and beliefs of ignorant barbarians. If one prefers to understand the natural world and better the human experience, there are vastly better sources.

[@t.k.2369]

Exactly I wish more people were capable of understanding this

[@n-da-bunka2650]

I have been making this EXACT SAME statement of enlightenment for nearly 50 years. I learned all these details when I went through Lutheran catechism all those years ago. It is amazing how poorly those using it as a prop have NO IDEA of what it ACTUALLY says

[@laekrits]

I picture that little blue book very time I hear the phrase "What does this mean?".

[@josecartin825]

Just throw it all to the garbage.

[@laekrits]

@@josecartin825 I could do without christians in general, but Martin Luther was a Boss (o:

[@tomt373]

That is typical of most churches, especially any of those larger denominations that have their special catechisms or set of books, booklets, and writings by a founder/author.

[@ricardopenamcknight6407]

@@laekrits A very anti-semmitic boss who tossed out several books of the bible because they didn't fit with his views. Also our catechism is better.

[@toddheimbuch5429]

About 45 seconds in, I was compelled to think: whenever any human being gives an exposition like this, rather blithely throwing out 'statistics ' and instant extrapolation, people should remember....take all such speeches, first, with a grain of salt

[@cyrenedomogalla5127]

The statistic is what presenters call a hook (journalists call it a lede) which gives the audience something compelling to keep them listening. Sure, take any data with some salt. But don't discount what he's saying because he didn't use a whitepaper to explain his opening premise for a 20 min presentation.

[@thankful5832]

Big grain.

[@matthewjonas8952]

@@cyrenedomogalla5127 Agreed. Some people will attempt to hide behind a grain of salt to avoid accepting their beliefs are inaccurate.

[@FilthyXylophone]

Or, you could read the same passages he did and come to very similar conclusions...

[@richardennis5707]

Nor was it written by those that churches and Bible schools tell you.

[@morgan4xl]

Men of science read dozens of books and realized how much more there is to learn, men of religion read a little part of one book and think they know everything.

[@rtanidean4931]

That’s really well-typed. TY 😊💚

[@gssr1]

@Weeble Wobble Do you realize you essentially proved the point morgan4xl was making?

[@rtanidean4931]

@Weeble Wobble Who presented you / us with that book? The papacy / Rome?

[@gssr1]

@Weeble Wobble It's amazing you cannot even read a paragraph and understand it. Morgan4xl said point plank "Men of science read dozens of books and realized how much more there is to learn." Science is learning, trying to find answers, and most of all; admitting that we don't know all the answers or probably even most of the answers. You obviously have not actually read the bible. If you had you would realize how awful it is. It supports slavery, incest, rape, murder and first and foremost hate. It truly amazes me that people claim to have actually read the bible and then believe it, and worse think it is a good moral book. So either you have not read the book, or you are a very amoral person.

[@rtanidean4931]

@Weeble Wobble Hi. Hey, no worries!! I appreciate your input. I just asked, I seek no confrontation- actually, just the opposite. Just smile and KNOW all will be okay. We all learn & grow- yes, me too. No one is attacking you. Be strong. If anyone disagrees with your alignment- it’s okay. We all are in this moment together. Enjoy your day. 😊🎵💚

[@speedy1406]

I wonder if he actually took the time to read the Bible in context and understand what it means just because man does something in the Bible dosnt mean it’s supported by God

[@con.troller4183]

Context is the magical word which apologists use to shoe-horn scripture into their own prejudices. There are plenty of examples where men in the bible are commanded to do unspeakable things. When a man takes a sex slave from a family he murdered as part of a genocide, on Yahweh's orders, that is not only supported by Yahweh but demanded by him. Stop making lame excuses for atrocities.

[@jimhughes1070]

The first time I ever read the Bible.... I already had an A plus... In English construction and literature... I immediately understood that" the day the Lord created " was a time span metaphor... Duh.... These people might want to find a better teacher

[@DavidRidlen]

In short, take the Bible metaphorically, not literally. Heads of the Catholic church agree. But that will never be consensus of the dogmatic masses. Regarding "inclusivity," DEU 13:1-15 specifically commands followers to actively seek out and kill all who worship other gods, even your own brother or wife if they so much as tempt you to worship other gods. And Yeshua emphatically stated that the Old Laws still apply, in MAT 5:17-18. Similar intolerant commandments exist in the Qur'an, making the two dogmas forever irreconcilable.

[@jimhughes1070]

Well.. what you going to do?.. believe believe people or believe god?.. he wrote Ten commandments with his own finger .. just guessing here but I bet I might be pretty talent if you come in my house and take my wife and kids... Or take my ass LOL... Or steal my property... Or God forbid, murder me... Yes the intolerance is just incredible

[@Tubulous123]

Yes!!! Thank you!!!! 1Nation4Life

[@ramaraksha01]

Primitive people living under Kings/Dictators made God in their image - "We must get down on our knees, swear loyalty(belief) & obedience, beg for his mercy, and hope for a reward(Heaven)" Simple, primitive ideas of God being blindly followed by even the best of minds in the 21st century! That is what is so amazing and frankly, frightening!

[@Basta11]

The bible was a library of scrolls. Each individual book (scroll) was copied, edited, updated, and rewritten by scribes over centuries. There would have been multiple versions of a particular book or story even in the same library. There were also multiple schools of thought that had their own set of scrolls, had their own philosophy and ideas, they would have edited their books to be inline with their agenda. The bible of today (Old Testament only) is a Judean compilation. It is a masterwork most likely started by the exiled Judeans in Babylon and those living Persia after. This is why the Northern Kingdom of Israel is not portrayed very positively and King David is so prominent. Unfortunately, the Northern Kingdom version of events are lost to history because of their destruction by the Assyrians. Because of their unique geographical location of the Israelites, the bible shows influences from native Canaanite works, Egyptian, Greek, Hittite, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, and later Roman elements.

[@dazirb]

Cool story, but the ancient texts don’t support your statement.

[@artszabo1015]

1. I challenge you to name ONE just ONE book of the Bible written by a person from the tribe of Judah. How else would it be a "Judean composition" 2. The exile from Babylon occurred a thousand years after Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible. How could they have then "started" it? 3. The history of the northern kingdom of Israel is recorded in the exact same scriptures as the southern kingdom, side by side , book by book, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. 4. There isn't a place in North America where you cannot find traces of Native American Indians and many of our states, cities and counties are named from their languages. So what? Your last paragraph is just a waste of words. You just want to jump in here and flip your mouth off and hope that nobody realizes that you are just inventing stuff out of your hateful imagination. Art

[@Basta11]

​@@artszabo1015 1. I don't hate anybody. 2. Not my imagination. Just repeating what modern historians are saying. 3. I didn't say it was a Judean composition, but a Judean compilation. They compiled older works, and edited them, and they also added their own. 4. We don't know if Moses wrote the Torah. The Torah doesn't even mention the author. 5. The Bible shows lots of influences from nearby ancient texts, many much older than when Abraham supposedly lived. The Israelites lived in the cross roads of great civilizations like the Egyptians, Assyrians, Hittites, Babylonians, Greeks (via Philistines), and were ruled by some of them. They were exposed to their works.

[@artszabo1015]

@@Basta11 1. Irrational, I never said you hated anybody, I said you had a hateful imagination. 2. So it is not your imagination, but the imagination of "modern historians". I fail to see the difference. 3.This one is yours. You are right it was a Judean compilation and as you said as history unfolded they recorded it. But, only because Israel the northern kingdom went rogue and were no longer involved in God's affairs at the Temple in Jerusalem. 4. Untrue, there are many references both OT and NT to Moses' authorship of the Torah. Exo 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. And, Jos 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. Proving the Book of the Law existed and was being used by the Hebrews in the first chapter of Joshua. And, Jos 8:31 As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings. This proves that Moses was in fact the author of the Book of the Law. 5. Again this one goes to you, however we were not in any disagreement here. I respectfully presume you are implying the scriptures were influenced by these people. Without any argument the Hebrew people were heavily influenced by these foreign nations. The big question here between me and you is, who is the actual author of scripture - God or the Hebrew people. If the Hebrew people were the author of scripture, then you would be correct in saying the scriptures were influenced by these foreigners. However, if God maintained sovereign control over his Word, then the answer is NO, the scriptures were not influenced by foreigners. I don't believe you nor I are qualified to answer this. Art

[@Basta11]

​@@artszabo1015 1. I respect your beliefs. 2. You are arguing from a standpoint of belief. I'm arguing from a standpoint of history. Historians are trying to piece together actual history as objectively as they would other ancient areas like the Sumerians or Machu Picchu. Many of these historians are theists. There is no hate or anything, no agenda but the honest pursuit of truth, if you don't like their conclusions you don't have to accept it.

[@richardbeaumont7960]

1+1 ≠ 0. However, 1-1=0, and that describes a claim and its negation by a contradictory claim. Throw it in the bin or preserve it as an interesting mythology... But it is quite impossible to believe in it.

[@darthrubik8384]

Correct. Can't believe there are so many atheists when the Bible is so obviously true.

[@richardbeaumont7960]

@@darthrubik8384 I can't believe there are any biblical literalists when the Bible is so obviously untrue. It is not even internally consistent.

[@darthrubik8384]

@@richardbeaumont7960 examples? Ever heard of "burden of proof"?

[@richardbeaumont7960]

@@darthrubik8384 yes I have. The burden of proof is definitely on you to establish thst any god exists. So far in the history of the world nobody has ever done so. I would accept proof if it could be provided - in fact I am more flexible than that and would accept merely good evidence if it was provided. Theists cannot even do that let alone prove a god exists. I have no need to prove the opposite. I do not claim the non-existence of God is proven. I merely don't accept unwarranted claims. Until there is good evidence for God, the hypothesis that one exists should not be accepted by anyone rational.

[@darthrubik8384]

@@richardbeaumont7960 would you accept that the idea of a God has existed for most, if not all, of human history?

[@zayiamondo]

Most human creatures cannot understand or accept predestination. Why would they..??

[@maxschon7709]

Genesis one = oldest story Egypt ; Genesis two = story of Garden of Eden. Turkey/northen Mesopotamia.

[@asecretturning]

I'm sure you do- but I have no idea what you're talking about 🤣

[@maxschon7709]

@@asecretturning The story of Genesis chapter one origates from Egypt while the chapter two comes from fertile cresant. It's the story of the Garden of Eden which the region of kurdish Turkey of today. There is also origin of grain.

[@garynumen13]

He really seems to do a "good" job of riding the crest of a wave that could break to either side, which I think is his point. The the idea of inclusivity in the Bible, I believe is a good one with scriptural backing. BUT, if one were to try to attempt to use that "inclusivity" to mean you can believe or do whatever you want and it is all good, well, I think you and Jesus will have to work that one out. Jesus was very straight about sin, what it is and the consequences, BUT he was also world-changingly compassionate. He suffered FOR us. Let us never treat that as a right to behave in a way that is contrary to HIS action. Yes, I am talking to me as well, absolutely.

[@jujjuj7676]

Not really...Jesus was not all that straight with sin. Many many passages are conflicting and not all sin situations are black and white and fit neatly into a sin catagory that was stated in the bible. Its almost all based on interpretation which is the whole point of the talk we just heard.

[@BuddyLee23]

TIL: Oscar the grouch found Jesus and he’s a whole lot nicer now.

[@jujjuj7676]

@@BuddyLee23im not so sure oscar the grouch found jesus he seems more of a sceptic loner type to be honest. Dont see him doing the whole social church thing..

[@paavobergmann4920]

@@jujjuj7676 the sermon of the Mount always suggested to me that for Jesus it was less about what rules did you follow to the yota, but more about "what state of mind are you in? Did you ask yourself and understand what it does to you and to other people, what you do, how you regard them?" So, I see no contradiction in him being very strict on some principles, like "that´s an awfully hurtful way of thinking", but sometimes rather relaxed in a specific situation, when there was also good intent. Also I find the message "yes, there are ambigous situations that are not clear cut and easy to decide, the real world is messy and difficult" somewhat lacking in many modern denominations.

[@jujjuj7676]

@@paavobergmann4920 I would also agree with that.. but thats from pretty solid logic and reasoning not religion so have yet to see the need for the latter. When reasoning fits the bill so well as you just displayed.

[@Hudson.Mekeland]

It's extraordinarily bittersweet, both entertaining and frustrating, to watch a guy make the point that people don't know what the Bible says while simultaneously demonstrating he doesn't either.

[@irgendwieanders2121]

It would be soooo nice of you to point to the instance where his ignorance, as perceived by you, comes through Not sure if you do nice, though...

[@MBEG89]

The sheer arrogance of assuming this is both shocking and somehow hilarious.

[@truthseekerv1318]

It's obvious that "God" did not put the stories of the Bible together...........Unless he wants us all confused.....

[@TheBuyanmg]

I'm having a hard time matching his word "on" from "on the day" with any translation or the original Hebrew. "In the day" seems to be how everyone translates that part. In vs on would lead to a different meaning.

[@marcdemell5976]

Mikal Shabbat has a good grip on the scriptures.

[@leehughart3160]

He glosses over the nuances and how to understand the texts. He is not shooting for that. Instead he is using this micro-example to make a macro-conclusion, which is false - the bible teaches religious pluralism. He uses the bible as a prop. but he is right that we shouldn't do what he did and we would find it useful if we read it.

[@nj5023]

I just read the Bible in full and I believe the Bible is the story of God’s love and mercy in the face of sometimes the most vile of sins. In fact, it’s quite the adventure.

[@ndeamonk24]

Were you high?

[@WolfQuantum]

I recall a very in-depth study of the Torah and Talmud by a group of Jewish and secular scholars. They found that when the Northern and Southern tribes were separate (Israel and Judah) they each had their own scribes and stories (texts). When the two reunited after a few centuries they combined their archives. The result is some of the variations in what we call the Old Testament. Another book that puts context to the events in the bible is Asimov's Bible.

[@JC_Forum_of_Christ]

The Dead Sea scrolls disprove you…

[@WolfQuantum]

Well, first. The Dead Sea Scrolls do not disprove me. I still exist as me. The earliest of the DSS texts are from about 300 BC. The rejoining of the Northern and Southern tribes had already happened. No one is quite sure who wrote the DSS. It's possible it was a sect in conflict with another sect. All interesting. Doesn't actually prove or disprove many things. And I still exist as me, so the Dead Sea Scrolls definitely don't disprove me or anyone else. :D Blessings.

[@JC_Forum_of_Christ]

@@WolfQuantum where and what are these variations you speak of? Some texts have been lost but not altered? During that time It was still one religion. The amount of detail I. Prophecy, the way and reason Christ is not welcomed in the the inn… spoken about in II Samuel. There is mo way Rabbis would preserve the stories speaking to Jesus’s birth. And 1 Ezekiel’s 4 beast speak to the 4 nature of Christ, a Lion King, Bull servant/sacrifice, a man to take the place of a man…. There is no way that much detail can be collaborated if people changing stories…. People who don’t know the Bible think they know the Bible

[@Jesuslovesyou801]

through the points did you pay mind to the focus or structure of everything and relative to each other thing to provide the emergent reality that is reality or rather did you just decide that you were gonna go against what you know and create something converse to what your heart perceives. you're a deceiver but one is wittingly so as one is deceived so you liars can congregate and it will realize nil. one could give ten different scenarios to explain away problematic structure or one could pursue the Truth or one could initially reject it like you do. live your life with no hope and a seared conscience serving the devil and waiting to die and then even having the ambition to seek it for another and all while opposing Jesus that is the Embodiment of love. only an unclean animal can accept the role of opposing the God of the little girl but none are forcing you but you have long since lost your spine to appeasing those that are fundamentally exactly the same as you. we will run out of days though. though you are still here and that means you can turn.

[@davidking4838]

If you are going to use the Bible as a prop, I do believe one thing is very important - don't hold it upside-down.

[@PleaseNThankYou]

He just held it aloft. It doesn’t matter how you hold the word of God, as long as you ARE holding it.

[@davidking4838]

@@PleaseNThankYou It matters. And if it's just a prop to you, that matters too.