Can You Grind Tools on a Milling Machine? YES -- Take a Look !!

This video will introduce you to the most useful grinding wheel you can own, and show you a shop setup that will expand your capabilities. You don't even need a surface grinder to appreciate it. You HAVE to Watch This one !! Seriously....
Patreon Support / joepie
Company Website www.advancedin...

[@ThisOldTony]

nice work as always Joe! Sorry if I stepped on your toes here. Happens! But always great to have options.

[@joepie221]

Hey Tony, thanks for stopping by. Your video aired first and I was worried I may have left a bad impression with the subject I picked. Together, I think we presented some great stuff. Take care.

[@tomgriffin9885]

It’s been said that “Great minds think alike”. Loved both presentations! Thoroughly enjoy both your channels and you’ve both taught this old dog some new tricks. Excellent work my friends.

[@mrayco]

You all great guys you are kind of sources here thank you all😃😀

[@gsautoandfabrication5564]

The both of you should do feeds and speeds! I love the way both of you explain everything!

[@Jrez]

More = better

[@StefanGotteswinter]

A mill is more than a mill :) Thoroughly enjoyed! I think I will wait a few days releasing my spline-slotting video, haha :D

[@AlecSteele]

This opens up a ton of capability! Awesome video!

[@highpwr]

PSA: For all the folks that have been asking about the "Norbide" dressing stick Joe is using - be aware that there are three different compositions for these stones. Aluminum Oxide / Silicon Carbide / Boron Nitride. For the AO tool room cup wheel being used here, you will want to use the *** Boron Nitride *** stick (most expensive) and NOT the (lesser expensive) AO or SC versions. The dressing stick used needs to be compatible with the composition of the grinding wheel it is being used on. For what it's worth - just my $0.02

[@vincentgizdich2842]

Forgive my ignorance I'm now to grinding. Could you use a diamond nib dresser?

[@Ziknazoo]

@@vincentgizdich2842 Yes.

[@bcbloc02]

People scream about me just laying stuff on my mill table. I can only imagine what you will hear about grinding on your mill! lol

[@sickboymech92]

Dont worry about ripping off TOT's content. He has been stealing it from me for years. Everytime I try to upload a video, Tony happens to beat me to it by one day, every damn time... it's like his lathe really does take him places.🤔

[@Tryin2FlyII]

Man I am SMILING from Ear to Ear lol I have no words!!! you ARE the MAN !!! Thanks Joe I too would like to see how to cut gears using this set up I know it is a lot of work for you to make these GREAT videos but believe me we ALL APPRECIATE it!! As Always TWO THUMBS UP Sir!!

[@maciekm7953]

Great stuff 👍 Thank you for sharing yours amazing knowledge. I would say that ToT is a funniest learning channel I've ever seen.

[@joepie221]

His editing work is top notch.

[@2lefThumbs]

Great video Joe, don't worry about overlapping content, everyone brings fresh stuff to the table even when they're making identical parts (which these ones weren't👍) even obvious (to you) things like the effect of dishing the face, or using a square broach to cut a much larger square hole light bulbs in viewers' minds.

[@avi8r66]

Noticed a comment by someone pissing on ToT... How anyone could dislike ToT is beyond me. His videos present this stuff in a fun way that people who aren't machinists, welders, etc learn about what goes into making parts like this. Your channel takes it to a higher level of precision which is great, but his bridges the gap between the uninitiated and the high end hobbyists and probably inspired a few people to find their way into trade school to pursue this stuff, or pick up a lathe, mill or welder and other tools to begin their journey.

[@joepie221]

TOT is one of my personal favorite channels and has some of the best production value of any creator in my opinion. Jimmy Diresta is another guy that produces fantastic material and video's.

[@paulwomack5866]

I've seen people suggesting that a zero rake (AKA flat ended) cuts just fine, and avoids both the geometry issues you mention, and some grinding complexity.

[@anthonyt9183]

Another top notch video. I'm glad you and Tony both released similar videos. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat and its good getting different perspectives on the same topic. Especially from guys who know what they talking about and as a KZbin learner the info received on my end is invaluable. So thanks. Look forward to seeing the next video.

[@joepie221]

I enjoy seeing how others do it. Together we all get smarter.

[@danapatelzick594]

Some how I doubt if This Old Tony will be insulted. Pretty cool technique, the wiping oil of the ways and vacuum is really good. Thanks

[@johnbonner922]

@Joe Pie - there is more than one way to skin a cat which is why it is my practice to watch you AND TOT AND Abom79 for ideas. Due to your different experiences and perspectives it gives a lot more information than just one perspective. Blessings and thank you for taking the time to produce such informative videos! :o)

[@joepie221]

Thanks. We 3 certainly seem to come from very different backgrounds.

[@bobuk5722]

Hi Joe, Am I an idiot! Never occurred to me that I could cut a big hole with a small broach. I wonder if it is too late to get an apprenticeship - I'm 70! BobUK.

[@chisdalton9652]

Just keep an open mind and learn something new every day

[@ToBeeOrNotToBeHoney]

I had the exact same thought as I watched him start the cut. In retrospect it is obvious, but what a cool way to change my perspective in 2 seconds. The end of the video he talked about using this to make gear teeth broaches, that is something I definitively will want to play with!

[@ChrisB257]

Another excellent tutorial Joe - thanks. :)

[@markkrick8602]

Another great informative video from Joe, not as funny as ToT... but I really like you both

[@arienugteren3797]

After seeing this video, I made a broach for a key way (3 mm width) which need to be fit inside a conical rotor of a ignition system. The dimensions and accuracy were very easy to be archived with this method! Thank you very much Joe! Very useful this videos. Please keep continue!

[@mcgam2000]

Having seen Tony's video about making broaches, and now yours, I see I don't need a surface grinder to make a broach... Thanks for what i might call an "Easier way to skin a cat"...

[@melgross]

I watched both Tony’s and Joe’s, and both are equally useful, and yet different.

[@infoanorexic]

Certain tools, machines, techniques, always seems to run in trends among YT creators and fb groups. I wouldn't worry too much about repeats. You might give someone the clue or unique idea they need to get around a problem.

[@bwyseymail]

Hey Joe, now don't take this the wrong way but you know how TOT made that video a while ago, it was funny as hell, some kind of anniversary or subscriber count thing. Anyway he had some voodoo going on and it caused all of his friends on YT to have these weird accidents. My biggest disappointment was that you didn't get attacked by a giant wolf spider, Man, that would have been great! lmao. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g36npItpbcSlrrs

[@richardgalli7262]

Great information Joe. FYI....the other day I was using my spin index for a project and it was slipping. After the completing the work I performed 3 improvements to the spin index. (1) the retaining collar on the spindle with the three set screws were not holding so I drilled/tapped three more equally spaced holes for a total of 6 set screws. (2) I machined off 0.125 inches at the end of the spindle at the handle end to allow deeper thread grip (for the collet) and deeper handle mount for the screws. (3)The front degree wheel is held on by only the threaded spanner ring which the thumb pin indexes with. This surprised me because a heavy cut could cause the work to spin independent of the degree wheel which relies on the thumb pin and large thumb screw on top. I machined a 1/8th slot on the front retaining shoulder behind the threads for a 1/8th key and made a 1/8th slot in the ID of the degree wheel to match. The degree wheel is now locked to the spindle. I hope this is explained well.

[@highpwr]

What surprises me is that no one has asked you about the ARBOR you are using for the cup wheel. Is that an Advanced Innovations product... yet? 😉

[@ALSomthin]

This might be a good way to put flats on the shanks of some of my drills to make them 3 flat shank drills without the high price.

[@mpetersen6]

We had Ampco-18 boring bar support bushing for semi and finish iboring operations on engine block. The bushings had slots for the boring bars cutting tools. The old timers always used a slotter. One day a retiree cam in to find out some pension Information and saw a guy doing this in a Bridgeport and his jaw dropped. But the we didn't have Bridgeport mills until after he retired aside from a couple of Trees everything was K&Ts. The K&T rotary head mills were really trick in their day.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Nice work on that broach.

[@Chubbza5]

That's very cool. I've always admired the tool and die making part of machining. Thanks for sharing!

[@joepie221]

Hey Chubbza5, always good to see you checking in. Thanks for the comment. I hope you enjoyed the material.

[@markkrick1508]

Hi Joe, I know this was a month ago but you were right, I did buy a Norton cup wheel right after... and today I made the arbor and used it for the first time. Used it to flatten the top of a custom HSS cutter. Great videos they really help me.

[@joepie221]

Glad to hear it.

[@TheTacktishion]

More good stuff....! I have always wondered why you can't do simple grinds on a mill. Now I know you can. Gotta just remember to cover up to protect from the grinding dust.... I like this method for simple broaching! Thanks for sharing your STUFF.!!!.

[@ablemarine5408]

Might want to build a guard to protect you from a grinding wheel failure. Years ago I had a brand new wheel explode on first start-up. I see a 360° danger zone at chest level.

[@sonicdewd]

I don't comment much on machining because I don't know enough, but I was compelled to mention something - it's not stepping on toes at all (and I know you were respecting territory as it were - that's not lost on me) but I watch both of you guys and if there's one thing that I've learned about learning is to listen to more than one authority because of the differences of the methods and styles of explaining. Having one subject explained by two or more (the caveat is that the two must know what they're talking about else too much 'noise' is created) is the best way to learn and have it stick into memory.

[@cameronmccreary4758]

I used to surface grind on my mill. Cup wheels are good for blanchard grinding which can be done on the mill. Helps to tape cloths around where the grinding dust will fall. Very nice work and no tearing of the broached hole.

[@joepie221]

Definitely contain the dust.

[@loydsa]

An excellent video Joe, and a good compliment to TOT's video. Regards Sarah

[@joepie221]

Thanks Sarah.

[@Johnholt73]

This is a great video. For those of us that don't have a surface grinder or room for one, your thoughts on flat grindinf surfaces on vise jaws and similar parts for example on a mill using a cup. Obviously being careful to mask of ways etc.

[@jasen963]

That’s what I love about this channel is learning other ways to achieve a result without spending a lot of cash on expensive rotor broaches or tools 👍🏻

[@joepie221]

Thats the name of the game for a small or new shop. Glad you like the material. Hit that sub button for me !!

[@ralphwaters8905]

Hey Joe, I watch your channel for education, and This Old Tony for humor. He really cracks me up. I love you both, each in your own little way...

[@vk6xre]

2 of my favourite channels. Yours and TOT. TOT is entertaining but not always practical. I don't have a grinding machine for example. Your channel is always practical and scientific. I can see a use for a broach for me to square up corners for rectangular holes in panels for electronics projects.

[@joepie221]

Thanks.

[@heli_av8tor807]

My Grandpa was a machinist at the Rock Island Arsenal from the 40's to 1960. I have a box of stones he used. Among them was a stone that looks like your Norbide. Until now I had no idea of its use. Unfortunately he passed when I was 12 so I never had the chance for him to mentor me. Thanks for all the work you put into sharing your skills.

[@joepie221]

My pleasure.

[@dizzolve]

This old Tony doesn't have toes ..........he has 20 fingers 24:55

[@rodbennett4790]

G'day Joe, It just doesn't feel right when you don't finish with "I'm out"!

[@joepie221]

I noticed that too. Thanks for the comment.

[@timogross8191]

What if the mill has no quill? ..... some contraption is needed.... new project... Oh no not again....

[@338bigguns]

Dam you're good. Wish I had you as my metal work teacher at high school.

[@joepie221]

Thank you.

[@drpipe]

Incredible everytime I watch I learn with you. Thanks for sharing 👍

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching.

[@stuartsmith945]

Just wondering if hollow grinding the tip might assist with reducing deflection. I know the effect would not be great, but it may help to pull the broach rather than push. I would love to see what the size difference is between the top and bottom of the hole.

[@erg0centric]

Diamond cup wheel for flat grinding stone works great.

[@tomk3732]

This is an excellent idea - no need for special tool holder as in rotary broaching.

[@Millstone_Firewood]

Great video! I'm late to the party. Just found your channel a few weeks ago. Any chance of you doing a video on making an appropriate arbor for one of these cup wheels?

[@joepie221]

Good suggestion!

[@Millstone_Firewood]

@@joepie221 Thanks Joe. I made one but the largest steel that I had was 1.5" so it's a bit shy on the top. I used a piece of 2" dia. 7075 for the bottom clamp. Seems to work. I need to make a .125" square broach tomorrow.

[@dangle_berriestwo5676]

exactly what im after this morning- mill grinding mandrel how to...

[@pentachronic]

Wow, another use for a mill. So with a lathe and a mill you can make your indexer and anything you want from then on!!

[@n8hfi]

Clickspring also has a good video on another kind of square broach, suitable for smaller holes. Between the three of you, I think you've covered all the types I'm familiar with.

[@cliveclapham6451]

Joe you gota be carfulling TOT's got a time machine, just saying.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Oh l ran out and bought the Norton wheel yesterday 😱😱😱😱😱😱 Skoockum as frig both broachers👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Great demo grinding in the mill Joe . I was going to make an adaptor to mount my TPG in the slotting mount on the Bridgeport ram . Cheers .

[@nascar20970]

Something else I will need to buy and learn how to do, great video.

[@davidewing9088]

how would you make a cutting tool for an involute gear?

[@mauricecotton7885]

Oops I forgot to leave a like for that oul toe knee 😉 but to be fair a hobby machinest needs to make do with the tools available to them and do more with less and Joe pie is more master machinest than comic 🤫 Ps Tony will never know as he never read or responded to comments .😭 Unlike Joe pie!👍 thanks Joe 👍🤩 And a wee tip from me is I use a cheap diamond grinding wheel on my mill for a lot less dust and grit and only cost£7 on eBay and lasts for year's 👍

[@timogross8191]

I think a diamond wheel will get destroyed quickly by grinding HSS. This must be due to chemical wear on the diamond ( it burns ) . CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride) wheel should be better for HSS.

[@radriand]

Totally an awesome tip.... This will help out in a jam. We build in supper short time frames. Some times you just can't wait for special to be shipped in. Just made your tooling.

[@karlvella7627]

Hi joe super clean video and all with usefull ideas.. joe can you do a topic how to make a gear cutter pls... Thanks karl from Malta

[@532bluepeter1]

Dear Joe, thank you for another really useful video. As the owner of a small mill and a spare cup wheel I could try this. the finish was just superb. Aluminium (limey) is however pretty mushy stuff. Would this process be possible with grey cast iron? Would it not be easier to use a square to tram the broach? (Forgive me I used to be a cabinet maker and set hollow mortice chisels that way off the fence). Finally, this is the kind of job to which the hand powered shaper would be admirably suited. (Wish I had one). Thanks again. Tony's video was different enough not to cause duplication.

[@terrybailey2769]

Its nice how you guys all acknowledge each other. I have now ordered up myself a cup wheel just for this purpose.

[@RaymondMcMahon-e1q]

Tell him how to make it ?

[@PaulSteMarie]

Huh, never saw anyone use a broach like a sheet metal nibbler before. Nice trick-broaches are expensive/hard to make and using one broach for a multitude of hole shapes is handy.

[@billchiasson2019]

Excellent video,its amazing to see what can be done on a mill when you " think outside the box" thanks Joe!.

[@thallmeister]

Good video, I'll be spending time in the tool room for the next month so this is good practice material. Also one of my journeyman was using a spin indexer the other day on a surface grinder, but only wanted to call it a "whirligig". Thanks for the content, the stuff I am learning on here I am trying to utilize in the shop. We don't use the machines full time, which saddens me since I thought as a die maker apprentice I'd be doing more with them.

[@mxcollin95]

As always great video! I’ve learned a ton from your channel. Thanks Joe.

[@joepie221]

Thanks for all your comments.

[@terrylegere9050]

The vidio was very good and I brought a hole case of the same cup grinding wheels years as you have years ago on ebay very cheap and still have them, I brought them for mly end mill sharpener.

[@toolbox-gua]

You are one of my most respected teachers.

[@joepie221]

Thank you for your support. I hope my material makes you a better and more comfortable machinist.

[@billy19461]

You never cease to amaze me!

[@ericmcclelland7942]

Yet another top notch class! Thank you again. Joe, I can't tell you enough how much I get from your videos. I subscribe to this old tony also..... Gotta love his dead pan humor....

[@joepie221]

Hi Eric. Thanks for watching. Tony's videos are very entertaining. A lot of editing work to do that.

[@petermurphy3354]

@@joepie221 Hi Joe, Great video as usual. I don't have a surface grinder, but I do have a Mill, so now I can make a rotary broach. I watch your videos to learn, but I watch ToT for the humor & I do learn something at the same time. We need to see your video 1st to learn how to do something & then to curb our frustration of being a beginner watch the humorous version by ToT. LoL

[@paulmace7910]

Thanks Joe. Great tip. How about “Blanchard” grinding on the mill? I know it’s clunky but if you don’t have a surface grinder how would you flat grind something?

[@AtimatikArmy]

Wow, awesome video, especially if you're learning about broaching! Thank you Joe!

[@thingmaker3]

Epiphany: It's a vertical shaper! Awesome presentation as usual, Mr. P!

[@joeybobbie1]

Yep, time to buy a Cup Wheel. Who’d of thought it could be that easy. I would have never thought of doing it that way, at least at the level of Machining I’m at right now. By learning more everyday thanks to People like you. Thanks

[@jewelhome1]

Well thank you. I never understood broaches before, a huge hole in my education, I know. Now I do.

[@dcw56]

Really enjoyed this one, Joe. Pretty slick trick and what great results! Taught the dog a new trick today. Thanks!

[@SouthernEnduroRdr]

Great video, excellent illustration. I realize you have to consider allowing room for camera angles for us to see. Probably goes without saying! But a shorter tool bit further up into collet would cut down on tool deflection. In any case, great results, I would use this process. Thanks for sharing!

[@jaysilverheals4445]

an interesting note is that various cup diamond wheels are very cheap right now and a person can mount them on any cold rolled steel arbor and the diamond or any wheel is not nothing more than a cutter with known diameter. Carbide cutters or whatever a program is made and you do whatever. use common sense about the dust of course. and of course for specialty items that are very hard you can in fact use diamond or cbn wheels or whatever to cnc mill them. if diamond on steel the diamonds of course add micro amounts of carbon to the surface just use common sense as to what you are doing. a thing on home made arbors by the way just use cold rolled which is as rigid as hardened steel anyway. I assure you its true you can take two identical rods one soft one glass hard and hang them off edge of plate for testing and put weights and the indicator needle will deflect identically on both. (but not if you start to BEND them such as by hanging 500 pounds)

[@rogerpetrella5993]

Joe Pi, I hate you! Just one more thing I need to make. Great video. As a beginner hobbyist, I learn a lot from you.

[@bobskingle5762]

You can use a radial arm drill to grind with as well.I have used one to put a 36" ground radius on a steam engine expansion link die block.Very effective.

[@scudinthemud]

I use a similar tool to make almost square blind holes in 303 stainless steel rod on a flypress. The sides of the hole still show some of the pilot hole. The job is done in one hit because the steel work-hardens. The tool has to have slight radius on the corners, or they chip straight away, and after experimenting with HSS and o1 steel I settled on plain old carbon drill rod tempered to dark straw. The tools last 50-60 pieces before chipping, it's a tough job for them.

[@ngauge22]

Lost for words... Simply amazing, all I can say. Great video and work, as always.

[@joepie221]

Thanks again!

[@tonyashgrove9512]

Hi Joe, you have explained very well one of my concerns when grinding the face of these broaches slightly hollow to give rake (I tend to use these broaches in a rotary holder and am cutting steel), you reduce the width of the side faces between the corners,. I have been thinking of a way to overcome this, if you canted the quill in the 'X' axis and used the inside edge of the cup stone, would it give a slightly convex curve to the side to compensate? your opinion would be appreciated

[@MartsGarage]

Excellent. Thanks Joe. Nice to see respect between KZbinrs.

[@krazziee2000]

very cool , thanks for the lesson,,

[@davidmussard641]

18:29 How is this witchcraft possible :-O Cutting metal without noise ?

[@angelramos-2005]

Beautiful craftmanship.Thankyou

[@garyhardman8369]

So nice to see the mutual respect between two great engineering KZbinrs.

[@tomnwoo]

It's a subject matter that brings me to these videos, it's the little whistles and sound effects that keep me watching, love it

[@MrCrispinEnterprises]

Another good video and some excellent details raised regarding the geometry created when mixing hollow grinds and back rake. Cheers

[@joepie221]

Hi Mr. Crispin. thanks for checking in. I hope you and your family are well.

[@MrCrispinEnterprises]

Yep all good. I've been back releasing videos again.

[@petercaswell9743]

Really enjoyed that it was educational for me, off to the tools catalogue now for a Norton cup wheel.

[@robertcorrie6737]

It looks like your brush is having a bad hair day. Nice tool. Thanks

[@dr.lareme7737]

Thanks Joe, Bought a grinding cup, made an arbor and I am grinding tools on my mill. Much better finish and accuracy albeit additional setup time involved.

[@joepie221]

Time well spent.

[@qck57594]

Great Video, you make videos that help the common man in his shed shop.

[@bokkievatikaki5676]

TOT uses dark matter. We love you both.

[@lourias]

TOT also time travels. That is how his got posted first.

[@nialltm1991]

Hi Joe. Could you explain grinding a gear broach on a rotary table like you suggested. Having difficulty understanding how this can be done?

[@joepie221]

Correctly grind the broach to the gear tooth angle and mount the gear blank on the rotary table. Nibble and index.

[@bobvines00]

Joe, thank you for this video. Of course, now I have to save up $$$ to get a good cup wheel and a Norbide stick. ;)

[@joepie221]

Next you'll be buying an end mill sharpening fixture.

[@jameslezak8179]

Another great video. Thanks Joe...

[@billythebake]

Hey Joe, wasn't able to finish the video this AM; had to wait until I got home... bad enough to have to work inside on a beautiful Friday afternoon, but there was a fresh Joe Pie vid waiting Funny thing, just re-watched the TOT video on rotary broaching this last week... I can't imagine how your video could be considered as stepping on his - a really good extra chapter on the subject. Really appreciate you taking the time to put these up!

[@joepie221]

glad to do it. thanks for coming back to finish watching it.

[@samterian7694]

keep grinding grits away from machine ways

[@joepie221]

Drape it for sure.

[@jd3497]

Great example of milling machine abuse.

[@ellieprice3396]

@@jd3497 You do what you gotta do. Not abuse if machine is properly draped.

[@otm646]

@@ellieprice3396 You will get grinding grit places it shouldn't go. There's no way your drape is going to be perfect, and you've got no way to make sure all of it is removed when pulling it off.

[@TheMetalButcher]

@@otm646 Is every grinder in your shop separated from your sliding way surfaces. Mine sure aren't. And most shops aren't.

[@niltonpolydoro1]

Very nice vídeo Joe. Thanks for sharing with us. Nilton Polydoro

[@dziggy3004]

Joe! Thanks, for each of these videos! Gotta get me a stone & dresser now! BTW. I notice some wobbling on the wheel when you were dressing it. How critical is it to center these on the arbor? I'm guessing there's some built-in play... Thx.

[@joepie221]

Being centered is good for balance and finish, but when face grinding its not critical.

[@marcussamson7640]

Now you did it let's see some gear action