Can You Grind Tools on a Milling Machine? YES -- Take a Look !!

[@ThisOldTony]

nice work as always Joe! Sorry if I stepped on your toes here. Happens! But always great to have options.

[@joepie221]

Hey Tony, thanks for stopping by. Your video aired first and I was worried I may have left a bad impression with the subject I picked. Together, I think we presented some great stuff. Take care.

[@tomgriffin9885]

It’s been said that “Great minds think alike”. Loved both presentations! Thoroughly enjoy both your channels and you’ve both taught this old dog some new tricks. Excellent work my friends.

[@mrayco]

You all great guys you are kind of sources here thank you all😃😀

[@gsautoandfabrication5564]

The both of you should do feeds and speeds! I love the way both of you explain everything!

[@Jrez]

More = better

[@StefanGotteswinter]

A mill is more than a mill :) Thoroughly enjoyed! I think I will wait a few days releasing my spline-slotting video, haha :D

[@highpwr]

PSA: For all the folks that have been asking about the "Norbide" dressing stick Joe is using - be aware that there are three different compositions for these stones. Aluminum Oxide / Silicon Carbide / Boron Nitride. For the AO tool room cup wheel being used here, you will want to use the *** Boron Nitride *** stick (most expensive) and NOT the (lesser expensive) AO or SC versions. The dressing stick used needs to be compatible with the composition of the grinding wheel it is being used on. For what it's worth - just my $0.02

[@vincentgizdich2842]

Forgive my ignorance I'm now to grinding. Could you use a diamond nib dresser?

[@Ziknazoo]

@@vincentgizdich2842 Yes.

[@AlecSteele]

This opens up a ton of capability! Awesome video!

[@avi8r66]

Noticed a comment by someone pissing on ToT... How anyone could dislike ToT is beyond me. His videos present this stuff in a fun way that people who aren't machinists, welders, etc learn about what goes into making parts like this. Your channel takes it to a higher level of precision which is great, but his bridges the gap between the uninitiated and the high end hobbyists and probably inspired a few people to find their way into trade school to pursue this stuff, or pick up a lathe, mill or welder and other tools to begin their journey.

[@joepie221]

TOT is one of my personal favorite channels and has some of the best production value of any creator in my opinion. Jimmy Diresta is another guy that produces fantastic material and video's.

[@jasen963]

That’s what I love about this channel is learning other ways to achieve a result without spending a lot of cash on expensive rotor broaches or tools 👍🏻

[@joepie221]

Thats the name of the game for a small or new shop. Glad you like the material. Hit that sub button for me !!

[@heli_av8tor807]

My Grandpa was a machinist at the Rock Island Arsenal from the 40's to 1960. I have a box of stones he used. Among them was a stone that looks like your Norbide. Until now I had no idea of its use. Unfortunately he passed when I was 12 so I never had the chance for him to mentor me. Thanks for all the work you put into sharing your skills.

[@joepie221]

My pleasure.

[@cameronmccreary4758]

I used to surface grind on my mill. Cup wheels are good for blanchard grinding which can be done on the mill. Helps to tape cloths around where the grinding dust will fall. Very nice work and no tearing of the broached hole.

[@joepie221]

Definitely contain the dust.

[@Tryin2FlyII]

Man I am SMILING from Ear to Ear lol I have no words!!! you ARE the MAN !!! Thanks Joe I too would like to see how to cut gears using this set up I know it is a lot of work for you to make these GREAT videos but believe me we ALL APPRECIATE it!! As Always TWO THUMBS UP Sir!!

[@arienugteren3797]

After seeing this video, I made a broach for a key way (3 mm width) which need to be fit inside a conical rotor of a ignition system. The dimensions and accuracy were very easy to be archived with this method! Thank you very much Joe! Very useful this videos. Please keep continue!

[@richardgalli7262]

Great information Joe. FYI....the other day I was using my spin index for a project and it was slipping. After the completing the work I performed 3 improvements to the spin index. (1) the retaining collar on the spindle with the three set screws were not holding so I drilled/tapped three more equally spaced holes for a total of 6 set screws. (2) I machined off 0.125 inches at the end of the spindle at the handle end to allow deeper thread grip (for the collet) and deeper handle mount for the screws. (3)The front degree wheel is held on by only the threaded spanner ring which the thumb pin indexes with. This surprised me because a heavy cut could cause the work to spin independent of the degree wheel which relies on the thumb pin and large thumb screw on top. I machined a 1/8th slot on the front retaining shoulder behind the threads for a 1/8th key and made a 1/8th slot in the ID of the degree wheel to match. The degree wheel is now locked to the spindle. I hope this is explained well.

[@garyhardman8369]

So nice to see the mutual respect between two great engineering KZbinrs.

[@2lefThumbs]

Great video Joe, don't worry about overlapping content, everyone brings fresh stuff to the table even when they're making identical parts (which these ones weren't👍) even obvious (to you) things like the effect of dishing the face, or using a square broach to cut a much larger square hole light bulbs in viewers' minds.

[@terrybailey2769]

Its nice how you guys all acknowledge each other. I have now ordered up myself a cup wheel just for this purpose.

[@RaymondMcMahon-e1q]

Tell him how to make it ?

[@melgross]

I watched both Tony’s and Joe’s, and both are equally useful, and yet different.

[@sonicdewd]

I don't comment much on machining because I don't know enough, but I was compelled to mention something - it's not stepping on toes at all (and I know you were respecting territory as it were - that's not lost on me) but I watch both of you guys and if there's one thing that I've learned about learning is to listen to more than one authority because of the differences of the methods and styles of explaining. Having one subject explained by two or more (the caveat is that the two must know what they're talking about else too much 'noise' is created) is the best way to learn and have it stick into memory.

[@markkrick1508]

Hi Joe, I know this was a month ago but you were right, I did buy a Norton cup wheel right after... and today I made the arbor and used it for the first time. Used it to flatten the top of a custom HSS cutter. Great videos they really help me.

[@joepie221]

Glad to hear it.

[@tomnwoo]

It's a subject matter that brings me to these videos, it's the little whistles and sound effects that keep me watching, love it

[@danapatelzick594]

Some how I doubt if This Old Tony will be insulted. Pretty cool technique, the wiping oil of the ways and vacuum is really good. Thanks

[@paulwomack5866]

I've seen people suggesting that a zero rake (AKA flat ended) cuts just fine, and avoids both the geometry issues you mention, and some grinding complexity.

[@ralphwaters8905]

Hey Joe, I watch your channel for education, and This Old Tony for humor. He really cracks me up. I love you both, each in your own little way...

[@toolbox-gua]

You are one of my most respected teachers.

[@joepie221]

Thank you for your support. I hope my material makes you a better and more comfortable machinist.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Nice work on that broach.

[@vk6xre]

2 of my favourite channels. Yours and TOT. TOT is entertaining but not always practical. I don't have a grinding machine for example. Your channel is always practical and scientific. I can see a use for a broach for me to square up corners for rectangular holes in panels for electronics projects.

[@joepie221]

Thanks.

[@mpetersen6]

We had Ampco-18 boring bar support bushing for semi and finish iboring operations on engine block. The bushings had slots for the boring bars cutting tools. The old timers always used a slotter. One day a retiree cam in to find out some pension Information and saw a guy doing this in a Bridgeport and his jaw dropped. But the we didn't have Bridgeport mills until after he retired aside from a couple of Trees everything was K&Ts. The K&T rotary head mills were really trick in their day.

[@jeetenzhurlollz8387]

Dear Mr Joe, i am a software engineer, have no experience with machines, but from your videos, i learn so much. Please keep up the great videos.

[@joepie221]

Thanks, will do!

[@anthonyt9183]

Another top notch video. I'm glad you and Tony both released similar videos. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat and its good getting different perspectives on the same topic. Especially from guys who know what they talking about and as a KZbin learner the info received on my end is invaluable. So thanks. Look forward to seeing the next video.

[@joepie221]

I enjoy seeing how others do it. Together we all get smarter.

[@joeybobbie1]

Yep, time to buy a Cup Wheel. Who’d of thought it could be that easy. I would have never thought of doing it that way, at least at the level of Machining I’m at right now. By learning more everyday thanks to People like you. Thanks

[@captcarlos]

You both are favourites of my machining YT content. Always worth watching. Learn something every time. Thank you

[@radriand]

Totally an awesome tip.... This will help out in a jam. We build in supper short time frames. Some times you just can't wait for special to be shipped in. Just made your tooling.

[@billchiasson2019]

Excellent video,its amazing to see what can be done on a mill when you " think outside the box" thanks Joe!.

[@Chubbza5]

That's very cool. I've always admired the tool and die making part of machining. Thanks for sharing!

[@joepie221]

Hey Chubbza5, always good to see you checking in. Thanks for the comment. I hope you enjoyed the material.

[@TheTacktishion]

More good stuff....! I have always wondered why you can't do simple grinds on a mill. Now I know you can. Gotta just remember to cover up to protect from the grinding dust.... I like this method for simple broaching! Thanks for sharing your STUFF.!!!.

[@thingmaker3]

Epiphany: It's a vertical shaper! Awesome presentation as usual, Mr. P!

[@baggerf14]

I watch this old tony. I saw his square hole tool. Cant afford it. Yours i can afford. I love seeing different ways to do the same thing. I actually made a square hole broach, actually a corner broach for a project used a surface grinder i made a square cutter round to fit in collet. Starting round and going square would have been way easer. Awesome lesson from you. Again. I am learning alot from all of you guys. Keep them coming!!! Please!!!

[@brucematthews6417]

Another great set of ideas. Not only for making broaches but also some good ideas on using the mill as a T&C grinder with a little care.

[@tomk3732]

This is an excellent idea - no need for special tool holder as in rotary broaching.

[@bcbloc02]

People scream about me just laying stuff on my mill table. I can only imagine what you will hear about grinding on your mill! lol

[@loydsa]

An excellent video Joe, and a good compliment to TOT's video. Regards Sarah

[@joepie221]

Thanks Sarah.

[@MartsGarage]

Excellent. Thanks Joe. Nice to see respect between KZbinrs.

[@ALSomthin]

This might be a good way to put flats on the shanks of some of my drills to make them 3 flat shank drills without the high price.

[@maciekm7953]

Great stuff 👍 Thank you for sharing yours amazing knowledge. I would say that ToT is a funniest learning channel I've ever seen.

[@joepie221]

His editing work is top notch.

[@Johnholt73]

This is a great video. For those of us that don't have a surface grinder or room for one, your thoughts on flat grindinf surfaces on vise jaws and similar parts for example on a mill using a cup. Obviously being careful to mask of ways etc.

[@pontoonrob7948]

Always a pleasant surprise when you post a video...I get to learn something over a coffee break.

[@dr.lareme7737]

Thanks Joe, Bought a grinding cup, made an arbor and I am grinding tools on my mill. Much better finish and accuracy albeit additional setup time involved.

[@joepie221]

Time well spent.

[@bobskingle5762]

You can use a radial arm drill to grind with as well.I have used one to put a 36" ground radius on a steam engine expansion link die block.Very effective.

[@n8hfi]

Clickspring also has a good video on another kind of square broach, suitable for smaller holes. Between the three of you, I think you've covered all the types I'm familiar with.

[@qck57594]

Great Video, you make videos that help the common man in his shed shop.

[@chrisblazer762]

This reminds me of some grinding I done on some drill bits. For anyone using the lathe or drill press, put your drills in a collet and go to surface grinder and grind some flats on your drills 120 deg. apart. You will not have any problems with the drill turning in the chuck. Most guys machining might know this already. GO VOLS !!!

[@Afro408]

I have been grinding tools, with the same wheel mounted on my face cutter arbour on my mill drill, for years now. Very effective, especially partnered with a dividing head.

[@erg0centric]

Diamond cup wheel for flat grinding stone works great.

[@billythebake]

Hey Joe, wasn't able to finish the video this AM; had to wait until I got home... bad enough to have to work inside on a beautiful Friday afternoon, but there was a fresh Joe Pie vid waiting Funny thing, just re-watched the TOT video on rotary broaching this last week... I can't imagine how your video could be considered as stepping on his - a really good extra chapter on the subject. Really appreciate you taking the time to put these up!

[@joepie221]

glad to do it. thanks for coming back to finish watching it.

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Great demo grinding in the mill Joe . I was going to make an adaptor to mount my TPG in the slotting mount on the Bridgeport ram . Cheers .

[@scudinthemud]

I use a similar tool to make almost square blind holes in 303 stainless steel rod on a flypress. The sides of the hole still show some of the pilot hole. The job is done in one hit because the steel work-hardens. The tool has to have slight radius on the corners, or they chip straight away, and after experimenting with HSS and o1 steel I settled on plain old carbon drill rod tempered to dark straw. The tools last 50-60 pieces before chipping, it's a tough job for them.

[@thallmeister]

Good video, I'll be spending time in the tool room for the next month so this is good practice material. Also one of my journeyman was using a spin indexer the other day on a surface grinder, but only wanted to call it a "whirligig". Thanks for the content, the stuff I am learning on here I am trying to utilize in the shop. We don't use the machines full time, which saddens me since I thought as a die maker apprentice I'd be doing more with them.

[@notsonominal]

I watched the ToT video, I was amused and impressed. I watched your video and I was thinking even I could do that; infinitely more useful. Thanks for sharing!

[@infoanorexic]

Certain tools, machines, techniques, always seems to run in trends among YT creators and fb groups. I wouldn't worry too much about repeats. You might give someone the clue or unique idea they need to get around a problem.

[@drpipe]

Incredible everytime I watch I learn with you. Thanks for sharing 👍

[@joepie221]

Thanks for watching.

[@338bigguns]

Dam you're good. Wish I had you as my metal work teacher at high school.

[@joepie221]

Thank you.

[@dcw56]

Really enjoyed this one, Joe. Pretty slick trick and what great results! Taught the dog a new trick today. Thanks!

[@harryhopkins7798]

Thanks Joe, This is one of the most useful things I have learned on KZbin in a long time. Even with the miniature stuff I make this will be helpful.

[@billy19461]

You never cease to amaze me!

[@icusawme2]

Wouldn't have even thought of using the mill for this. Thanks!

[@joepie221]

Something spins and something moves......The rest is up to you.

[@ablemarine5408]

Might want to build a guard to protect you from a grinding wheel failure. Years ago I had a brand new wheel explode on first start-up. I see a 360° danger zone at chest level.

[@nascar20970]

Something else I will need to buy and learn how to do, great video.

[@ChrisB257]

Another excellent tutorial Joe - thanks. :)

[@ngauge22]

Lost for words... Simply amazing, all I can say. Great video and work, as always.

[@joepie221]

Thanks again!

[@angelramos-2005]

Beautiful craftmanship.Thankyou

[@dennyskerb4992]

I was going to help a friend but now I’m going to the garage and make a broach. Thx Joe

[@youcoulduseit7492]

My opinion is don't worry about covering things coverd befor. Because I saw Ave's broach, stefan gottswinters broach video and your video is my favorite now. Love d the tooling you used. Got me to thinking the mini mill would be perfect for this kinda thing you could put a spring between the z depth stop and mill head for a return spring( so the quill returns to top) and the ginding aspect the mini would be easier cover up. I used one to make flat stones and yes they do a fine job finding the burrs and not scratching valuble stock That wheel also be good on the lathe for like counter bore sharpening with the 5c where the tool post is anle up or down for the relief angles Insperational stuff Joe and good seeing ya again

[@donmathias1705]

Joe, I have to be inventive too. I had to split a pair of bosses that were being clamped by 3 x 3/4 unf cap screws. They were like a large dog bone. 2 1/4'" bore on a 4 3/4" OD and was 3 3/4' long on each end at 16" centres. I was making a giant joining link as on a chain except it was for a reversible plough mechanism. I set the boss in my mill vice. I made up a mandrel to hold a drop saw blade. I used a partly worn drop saw blade (abrasive type) and simply used it as you would use a $200 slitting saw. It was a wee worry because there was no guarding but I was conscious of not overloading it and having a blowout of the wheel. Worked a treat, it fact was prob quicker that a HSS slitting saw. Hardest part was deburring the ragged edge because the steel was of good quality. When i welded the bosses on to the thick wall tube, I lit a decent fire inside a 55 gal barrel with some nice firewood I had, dropped in the dog bone links and kept it stoked up for a good while. I covered when i went home and in the morning removed. It was just able to be handles so I think I stress relieved it quite nicely. I know it machined beautifully so that is always a good sign. I live and work well out of town so have to make do.

[@532bluepeter1]

Dear Joe, thank you for another really useful video. As the owner of a small mill and a spare cup wheel I could try this. the finish was just superb. Aluminium (limey) is however pretty mushy stuff. Would this process be possible with grey cast iron? Would it not be easier to use a square to tram the broach? (Forgive me I used to be a cabinet maker and set hollow mortice chisels that way off the fence). Finally, this is the kind of job to which the hand powered shaper would be admirably suited. (Wish I had one). Thanks again. Tony's video was different enough not to cause duplication.

[@johnbonner922]

@Joe Pie - there is more than one way to skin a cat which is why it is my practice to watch you AND TOT AND Abom79 for ideas. Due to your different experiences and perspectives it gives a lot more information than just one perspective. Blessings and thank you for taking the time to produce such informative videos! :o)

[@joepie221]

Thanks. We 3 certainly seem to come from very different backgrounds.

[@SouthernEnduroRdr]

Great video, excellent illustration. I realize you have to consider allowing room for camera angles for us to see. Probably goes without saying! But a shorter tool bit further up into collet would cut down on tool deflection. In any case, great results, I would use this process. Thanks for sharing!

[@tomeyssen9674]

Absolutely beautiful Joe. Great video shots on the grinding.

[@joepie221]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@AtimatikArmy]

Wow, awesome video, especially if you're learning about broaching! Thank you Joe!

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Watched it again after the trunnion video to refresh my memory. Thanks for sharing.

[@petercaswell9743]

Really enjoyed that it was educational for me, off to the tools catalogue now for a Norton cup wheel.

[@stuartsmith945]

Just wondering if hollow grinding the tip might assist with reducing deflection. I know the effect would not be great, but it may help to pull the broach rather than push. I would love to see what the size difference is between the top and bottom of the hole.

[@ellieprice3396]

Good job, I learned something here. Never thought of grinding with a cup wheel on a Bridgeport, probably because my shop has a surface grinder. Keep 'em coming.

[@xfhghe]

Yes, you can grind on a mill, especially with modern mills with high rpm's. But the trouble is containing and isolating the abrasive grind dust. That can reek havoc on your ways. The ways on grinding machines have enclosures designed specifically to keep out the grind dust. The way covers on a mill does not give nearly as good of protection. So if your grinding wheel can grind HSS or carbide, then the dust from that wheel can certainly wear out the ways on your mill.

[@jimdriscoll8787]

That is why you don't use aluminum oxide wheels. Use electroplated CBN and diamond! It wears attriciously. You will get small chips from the material you a grinding but if you're not doing a lot of grinding it's not an issue. If you are, a simple inexpensive filter will take care of protecting ways etc

[@terrylegere9050]

The vidio was very good and I brought a hole case of the same cup grinding wheels years as you have years ago on ebay very cheap and still have them, I brought them for mly end mill sharpener.

[@andrewwilson8317]

If you soak your protective drapes in oil it catches and holds the grinding dust and grit. I used some old carpet offcuts from a dumpster, soaked in cheap engine oil. The carpet is rigid enough to make decent catch guards,the grit gets stuck in the pile and in the oil. They went back in the dumpster when I was done. Any clean oil that ran off was simply wiped up with a clean cloth. 100% confident I caught all the nasty stuff.

[@MrCrispinEnterprises]

Another good video and some excellent details raised regarding the geometry created when mixing hollow grinds and back rake. Cheers

[@joepie221]

Hi Mr. Crispin. thanks for checking in. I hope you and your family are well.

[@MrCrispinEnterprises]

Yep all good. I've been back releasing videos again.

[@PaulSteMarie]

Huh, never saw anyone use a broach like a sheet metal nibbler before. Nice trick-broaches are expensive/hard to make and using one broach for a multitude of hole shapes is handy.

[@Dr_Xyzt]

Thanks for suggesting the Norbide stick. I finally got one, and it wasn't remotely cheap. That said, it does a neater straighter job than a brick or a rock, which makes my job easier.

[@robertoswalt319]

Another great video that I have bookmarked because I am sure I will need the information down the road.

[@ericmcclelland7942]

Yet another top notch class! Thank you again. Joe, I can't tell you enough how much I get from your videos. I subscribe to this old tony also..... Gotta love his dead pan humor....

[@joepie221]

Hi Eric. Thanks for watching. Tony's videos are very entertaining. A lot of editing work to do that.

[@petermurphy3354]

@@joepie221 Hi Joe, Great video as usual. I don't have a surface grinder, but I do have a Mill, so now I can make a rotary broach. I watch your videos to learn, but I watch ToT for the humor & I do learn something at the same time. We need to see your video 1st to learn how to do something & then to curb our frustration of being a beginner watch the humorous version by ToT. LoL

[@brucewilliams6292]

This opens so many possibilities! Thank you for your excellent videos! Well done!

[@Rprecision]

I never would have thought of that! Your common man genius is at a doctorate level! Can you build a shop made rotary broach next?

[@mikemarriam]

Thanks so much for expanding my knowledge. Regret passing on those cup wheels at a recent auction. Definitely adding one to my tool set asap. Never would have thought about cutting gears this way even though I've seen them hobbed.

[@paulmace7910]

Thanks Joe. Great tip. How about “Blanchard” grinding on the mill? I know it’s clunky but if you don’t have a surface grinder how would you flat grind something?

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

Wow, another use for a mill. So with a lathe and a mill you can make your indexer and anything you want from then on!!

[@CrazyTony65]

I've used angle blocks for years and years. This is no secret. I like to dress a clearance in the back of a cup wheel after dressing it like standard wheel and and clearing the front to shoulder. I come in close to the bottom surface, side wheel into where I think I should be, plunge and walk out. The backside clearance dress allows you to do so. with a nice surface finish. When side wheeling with an edge, one is always chasing the wheel, get used to it because it's worth it in the finished product. Love my Norbide stick!

[@stephenmorgan8510]

I found one of those sticks in some equipment I inherited and had no idea what it was. Now I know. Thanks Joe.

[@joepie221]

It should last a lifetime if you don't drop it.

[@EverettsWorkshop]

Very cool, thanks for sharing this - could be very useful for those of us without tool grinders

[@joepie221]

It really is. Just be sure to drape the critical surfaces of the mill.

[@mcgam2000]

Having seen Tony's video about making broaches, and now yours, I see I don't need a surface grinder to make a broach... Thanks for what i might call an "Easier way to skin a cat"...

[@BurtonsAttic]

Exactly what I needed to make on my last project!

[@kennygee6627]

I always learn cool tricks from you, Joe 👍🏽. A new way to use my Bridgeport Mill👌🏽. I have the same Spindex as well. A few months ago I had to make an aluminum fuel valve handle with 1/4” square hole. I drilled a 1/4” hole then made a tool and single pointed to square it up on the Bridgeport. Came out very nice but this would’ve been a much better way. Thank you. I watch ToT too.

[@josemanon6295]

Great job. Improve it by facing the cutter concave, turning in the lathe and passing a dremmel whith small grinding disc. Cheers.

[@joepie221]

1:28 in the video