Question to Celestion Ltd

Questions to Celestion Ltd
The questions concerns the claims made in this video:
• I Found The Van Halen ...

[@eddieholmes3236]

This is where your channel really comes into it's own Johan and why it's my favourite on KZbin: you take the comparative approach of a scientist/engineer and from all those comparisons the difference is very clear for all of us to hear.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Eddie! I’m glad to hear it

[@DMSProduktions]

Well he IS an engineer!

[@eddieholmes3236]

@@DMSProduktions There is that!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Hi Johan! Sitting at a very loud audio engineering party in Mannheim while writing this. Haven’t had a chance to watch the video yet, but I’m sure there’s some serious knowledge being dropped. Will watch as soon as I can. Btw, would love to have you come on the show to discuss this stuff! Didn’t find any contact info in your page, please hit me up! -Glenn

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi Glenn! Glad to hear from you, I’m a fan of your show! I’d be glad to come on! And I’m looking forward to hearing your reflections on this video. You can reach me a [e-mail] Cheers!

[@rangle187]

@@JohanSegeborn you and Glenn need to collab with each other to do a speaker shootout. You two need to lead the way in debunking these topics. Good luck and I hope to see more videos like this from you two.

[@threepe0]

Attempted damage control from Frick 🤣

[@BlueHouseSoundStudio]

Haha I’m so glad you are addressing this! I was rolling my eyes at Fricker’s “definitive” knowledge.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, glad to hear it

[@Zoso7227]

Never question the master. This man has been providing all the info about so many amps over the years

[@DMSProduktions]

Fricker knows...FA!

[@georgeorwell6066]

I can’t watch that frickin’ idiot’s channel 😂

[@dazfarrell]

@@DMSProduktions He dismisses guitarist jibberish with scientific tests, I see you do the keyboard scientific test there pal

[@plexidust5101]

I'm in agreement with You Johan, I have the same experience. Ken Fischer worked with Celestion Engineering for the Blue re introduction Speakers and he maintained that the pulp had less glue early on with bigger fibers. The later had more glue and smaller pulp. Probably different glue AND pulp. I would also check the Gauss of the magnets for curiosity as well. Its more than the color of the magnet for sure. Great Work As Always !

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks man

[@davemitchell4222]

@@JohanSegeborn have you ever tried th ev sro ceramic speakers ? my go to now

[@SDPickups]

Sadly there has never been any reverse-engineering work on vintage alnico speakers. No one really knows what alnico was used, and alnico varied thru the years. I had a Celestion Alnico speaker for years, but they are so harsh, even ten years later it was hard to listen to. Gave it away. Its not likely anyone is measuring gauss on speaker magnets. It takes a DC Gaussmeter and those are very very expensive. Alpha Lab DC gaussmeters are what I use with alnico pickup magnets. I managed to find a second one underpriced on Ebay so I have a backup for it too. It MUST be a DC gaussmeter ONLY.

[@tomasvanecek8626]

@@SDPickups I read an interview with Seth Lover recently .. he said there - there´s been an "mold 51" or somesuch.. they had no idea about the composition it seems

[@scottdunn2178]

I knew Ken since '88. Great dude. The Nicola Tesla of guitar amplifiers.

[@ebeep]

From “Vox Amplifiers, The JMI Years” by Jim Elyea, pages 282-283: “Celestion used a variety of cones on the various speakers they made, and for the most part, these were called out in the T. Number book and later in the P.A. PRODUCTS RECORDS LIST. The cones for the T.530 (“Vox Blue”) and all its various forms (including the T.1088) used the H.1777 cone. This was an in-house Celestion part number, and was the standard cone for the Celestion G12 speaker. …This cone was also likely used in the T.1117, T.1118, and T.1566 cone kits done up for export.” “There were three main cone manufacturers that Celestion used. Hawley, which became Pulsonic in 1965, did cones for other manufacturers including Elac, and used markings such as “40 102 003.” The first two numbers (“40”) stood for the week the cone was manufactured, and “102 003” was the number for that particular model of cone; in this case, the cone used in the T.530 and all its related G12s. Kurt Mueller GmbH of Germany, also made cones for Celestion. In 1970, Kurt Mueller bought Pulsonic. The plant, tooling, and personnel remained The same through all these changes of ownership. Third on the list was Celestion itself, which often marked their cones with “R/C” which usually looked like “RIC.” This stood for “Rola Celestion.” At one point, there was a fire at the factory of Kurt Mueller (U.K.) and to keep their production going, they sent their workers to other cone plants where KM staff actually made the cones using the machinery at other factories.”

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Great feedback! I’m gonna get that book right away. Is there any references or footnotes attached to the text that you could share? Cheers

[@ebeep]

@@JohanSegeborn absolutely, there are reference numbers in the text. I will look up the footnotes and post here.

[@ebeep]

@@JohanSegeborn Also important to note, from pages 270 and 271: "The previous year, 1934, the American firm, the Rola Company of Cleveland, Ohio, opened a U.K. branch at Minerva Road, Park Royal, London NW10. The "British Rola Company" was immediately placed in direct competition with Celestion." "On April 13, 1947, a year and a half after the war ended, British Rola bought Celestion, Ltd. In July of that year, Celestion moved production from Kingston-upon-Thames to the British Rola facilities at Thames Ditton as part of the consolidation of the two companies." "In 1949, another speaker manufacturer, Truvox, Limited, acquired Rola Celestion, Limited. Truvox was a large manufacturer of PA speakers. This merging of the two companies insured that Celestion speakers would represent the entire spectrum of speaker types."

[@ebeep]

@@JohanSegeborn note 40 on page 664, "40. (E) Cork, White, Boniface, 6-14-99". That's email correspondence with Paul Cork and Duncan Boniface. Note 41: "41. (E) Boniface, 08-07."

[@kennethc2466]

Thanks for the real deal, unlike this 'greenback' circle jerk!

[@strangeliveraredie]

Johan, it's great to see you go to great lengths to document this information. Especially when others don't seem to be interested much beyond name-dropping.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Yeah I think this is of historical significance

[@danielforsberg4018]

Hi Johan! I’m glad you have the guts to bring this up! And you are absolutely right! NOTHING sound like the original Greenbacks (I’m talking about T1221, T1281 and so on). The Kurt Muller cone sounds different for example. Different year types, pre rola, Rola, Greenbacks, Creambacks and Blackbacks are all different speakers in a way. But all of them sound good in their own right! None more than you have the knowledge of different Celestion speakers hence have the right to claim it either. Respect! 🙏

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Daniel! I’m glad to hear that! I really value your opinion! Cheers

[@kennethc2466]

Ah, none of you 'greenback' idolizers are old enough to know better. You sound like clowns who say, "this 19xx tire is better than EVERYTHING made today". Or, "the 19xx Hudson is better than every car ever, and needs to be manufactured in the same way as the original, because a narrow cult says so!" ....Please... Even Van Halen gave up on 'greenbacks', before most of you were born. Cut the idolatry crap, and realized there are MUCH better speakers now. If, 'my sound' is reliant on ONE SPEAKER, from ONE EAR, then you've limited YOURSELF...spo stop trying to make others believe in your DEMONSTRABLY FALSE DRIVEL. A speaker DOES NOT make or break a guitar rig, especially an inefficient POS, that doesn't sit well in a dense band of PROFESSIONALS.

[@greacen]

I love it when you go deep and share this kind of experience. I am looking forward to hearing what Celestion has to say about this topic. Thank you for going there.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Chris!

[@kennethc2466]

Celestion would call him a liar. Just like everyone who says, "speaker break in takes a long time'...when Celestion clearly states it take hours, at the most.

[@pleximaster1338]

Thanks you Johan! I share your opinion on this. I wrote this in the chat too. There is a difference between the various paper types. the within them (the paper types) there are variations mostly do to the amount of ware and usage and how these have been stored. A lot of cabs and then speakers have been I damp cellars and in other harsh environment. So make sure you test the old ones. And as you said in the beginning Brian Harding of Bygonetones is one one of the most knowledgeable persons when it comes to Celestion speakers. When I have a question on speakers it is Brian I call. When just to clarify something. Probably understood by all but me, but I guess this "debate" is about 12´Greenback speakers used in Marshall between 66 and to late 80´s and the type formula of the paper pull used to produce the cones of the speakers. Then there are multiple of different types of Pulsonic cones sized, ribbing ect. Then sound is influenced of other things as well for instance the coil of the speakers, magnet size ect. And when thinking about it, it makes sense that different manufactures had different formulas for there paper pulp...

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Pleximaster! Glad to hear it

[@ReWindElectricOld]

Just as with Gibson, Fender, and others, it's often the passionate users or repair experts that end up having more accurate information about the old products than the manufacturing / sales records at those companies, or the memories of those who worked there.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah that’s my experience in the car industry too

[@LPCustom3]

Johan, when I worked at Cerwin-Vega in the early 70’s we used Mueller cones for the 18” speakers. They would ship these from Germany in wooden crates. The wooden crates kept them from being smashed during transit.

[@BlueHouseSoundStudio]

I heard a good story from a old cat who worked for fender among others… Celestion speakers would be shipped over here to the states in shipping containers… every once in a while they heard of delays in orders because one would go overboard! Imagine a shipping container full of Pulsonics lost to the sea ! Haha

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, interesting feedback

[@thenameless3271]

Never really liked Glenn's stuff, but if what he does works for him, alright I guess. Thanks for the info Johan! Always a bit worrisome when two creators disagree. Very calmly and well said, thanks again!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! I like Glenn but I really need to challenge this claim

[@kroadster3249]

Thank you for the Education. Years ago I gave the advice via comment function to make the Clips short Sand to keep what you Play consistent to netter the comparison you listened back then and your Channel is still Great. Thanks for your efforts to educate us.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! I’m glad you like it!

[@incubism]

Next level analysis! Thank you. Going to have to have a close look at the cream backs in my ‘74 cab.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks!

[@mddorogi]

I just picked up four May 1974 greenbacks. Not completely clear what cones are in them but since they are not labeled, most likely RIC. They sound very nice! Spent a lot of time watching your videos and reading bygonetones, excellent work all around.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, glad to hear that!

[@riangarianga]

I apologise in advance, but I'm going to make a little bit of a rant here. But if we're talking about «Mr Rant» himself, I think it's sort of appropriate. The core topic is these metal guys (whom I actually liked and followed) basically only used the Celestion Vintage 30 for a couple of decades. Now they got bored about its sound, and they started testing other speakers. The problem is they talk about them like experts, but they only know about Vintage 30s, and not even that much: they used to reduce it to the place of manufacture: English = good, Chinese = bad, which is long debunked by Celestion themselves, stating that the machinery was moved to China, and they actually used the original glues, which were forbidden in Europe. A few months back this year they had a revelation, and they started geeking out on the Celestion EVH, which is nothing more than the discontinued Celestion G12M Heritage Series (of which I own 4 units made in 2009), with a nice EVH sticker, as the Celestion catalogue itself always stated since they started selling them. The explanation can be heard in the FLO Guitar Enthusiasts show directly from the Celestion representative Rick Skillman, who actually made the deal with Eddie (show date: 2013-04-15; lots of Celestion speaker topics were discussed). I pointed it out to the metal guys, they dismissed it. For them, the EVH speaker is something new, so much «Eddie», while we know Eddie just favoured Greenbacks. However, for blues and hard rock players, they just used to buy whatever model they could find cheaper, knowing it was the same actual speaker. Glenn also «scientifically tested» cabs made to the same specs, but with different materials. The comparison was made with the microphone almost inside the cone, where the cab material would have the least effect on the final sound. I pointed out that a room mike test would show better the actual effect of the different material, but the usual answer from these guys is «it's metal, we lose the punch». They're all testing all speakers under these narrow parameters. Celestion publicly claim they were just changing colours depending on whatever they had on hand: celestion.com/dr-decibel/my-g12ms-have-got-black-covers-how-are-they-different-to-the-greenback/ This claim isn't incompatible with having little spec changes, the ones you find out. They constantly make such changes to save on manufacturing costs. Celestion did it, Marshall did it, Fender did it... So now these metal guys take Celestion's word like a source of truth. Fine, but why they don't care in the case of the EVH speaker? In my opinion, and based on my own experience, they're just trying to sell their products. I'm in a couple of their Discord channels, including Glenn's, and that's the impression I get. I actually left his distribution list because it was just promotional material, hidden under a «great information» label. They aren't experts on Greenback speakers. They're newcomers to «the family». You and other guys are the experienced ones on this topic. You've made all sorts of empirical tests showing how they work, explaining all parameters you take into consideration, repeating them throughout the years. And you weren't even monetising your videos, in my opinion making such tests more believable.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, great feedback

[@georgeorwell6066]

Metal guys aren’t the sharpest crayons in the box…. We’re talking about a cohort of guitarists who generally can’t differentiate between a modeller and a real rig…. that tells you everything you need to know about modern Metal guitarists

[@riangarianga]

@@georgeorwell6066 Please don't take me wrong, I'm not dissing these guys. While the downtuned chugga stuff isn't really my thing, I actually still follow them somehow, and I find their producing or engineering advice quite insightful. They're truly experienced in this area. I have to agree with them: discovering the magic of Greenback speakers is really cool. Johan was my «mentor» in this area, I adore my G12M-67 Heritage, hands down my favourite speakers. However, these guys becoming so enlightened all of a sudden, to the point that they're giving such strong opinions on the Greenback topic, or setting their word in stone, while having no real, long-term experience with these speakers... Guys, give me a break. In the speaker realm most of them were still stuck in the idea: «British V30 (referring to the Mesa OEM ones) good, Chinese V30 bad», while they're actually differently spec'd speakers. This took on my nerves: Celestion always stated it, Bygone Tones had it properly listed since forever, but they never checked it. I only have a British V30 taken out of an Orange cab that I wanted to compare to a Chinese V30, because they have the same T number (although I don't feel H magnets that comfortable to play, so I never got one). But they never made this comparison, regardless of their British vs. Chinese claim.

[@riangarianga]

@@GCKelloch The thing is I like how H magnets sound. It's just I don't feel comfortable playing H magnets. It's the same for modellers. I personally think they sound fantastic. But with those I tried (admittedly, none of the most recent and expensive ones), I had an issue with the dynamics while playing, sometimes with latency. That being said, I'm a heavy IR user (I actually intend to make IRs of all my speaker collection), and I also use a few digital pedals that feel great. For example, the Boss AD-2 Adaptive Distortion or the Boss ST-2 Power Stack are truly nice. That being said, most usually I send a preamp output to the interface, then I apply the IR, and I play on headphones, which is close to a playing a real cab, minus the feeling of moving air surrounding you, which I obviously prefer to have.

[@DANWRIGHTITIS]

Great video!! Mr Fricker_ The Canadian Can Of Worms!! Love Both your Channels We await this Pod Interview ...Put The KETTLE ON Cheers from Madrid

[@JohanSegeborn]

Cheers Dan!

[@FuriousMess]

Johan this was a great video. Excellent explanation of the difference in the cone(s) and the plastic cover was a cool tidbit. Your knowledge is legend.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks my friend!

[@brianr76]

I love the fact that in that video he’s playing mueller cone speakers and he’s all “I found the brown sound”…. When I’m fairly certain Eddie used older basketweave cabs with pulsonic greens

[@SDPickups]

Eddie used a Variac though, so that confuses people. He dropped the voltage, BUT rebiased the amp, but he told people he turned the voltage UP to confuse people.

[@brianr76]

@@SDPickups right…. It’s much more than speakers…. Which makes his claim that much more ridiculous when you factor that along with the fact that he’s also using the WRONG speakers…

[@Nghilifa]

@@SDPickups People actually fell for him saying he turned the voltage UP, like no amp guy wasn't around to say "no, you'll blow your amp" or something? 🤣

[@qddk9545]

@@SDPickups And later he told people that he didn´t use a variac at all.

[@jayletter5209]

Johan I've quietly enjoyed your content for years. I stay away from the comment section because of this kind of stuff, but I wanted to take the time to thank you, not only for the unbelievable effort that goes into this stuff, but also for just being a class act. I hope all of us who enjoy what you do can follow your lead and stay classy. Sharing this kind of thing should be fun and bring joy. Screaming about it and calling others "stupid" over a difference of opinion certainly brings one's true motives into question. There's a difference between sharing knowledge and trying to directly influence people's thoughts and opinions with "scientific" testing 😆. Sadly you can tell who's who in this comment section by the way they talk to one another. Oh well, I guess some people need to be taught what to "believe". Just like little puppies.. PS I'd love to see an Ampeg V4 on the channel some day!!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Jay, I’m very glad to hear that! I’ll see if I can find a V4! Cheers

[@jayletter5209]

@@JohanSegeborn Those are my faves. I'd send you one of mine to try out if I wasn't afraid to ship a vintage amp halfway around the world and back. Even for "science"😁

[@siegfriedwashburn3484]

Hi, Johan! Thank you for the interesting video! Very well done!👍, Have a nice weekend! Siegfried

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks man, have a great weekend you too!

[@bradleywright7066]

Your the Man Johan!! Well done for engaging this subject of discussion!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Bradley!

[@mrcoatsworth429]

Man, it's insane how much the second clip (the "blackbacks") sounded like High Voltage era AC/DC.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Glad to hear it

[@georgeorwell6066]

I endorse and approve this comment

[@stevehughes1510]

Cheers Johan. I also go with Brian Harding at Bygone Tones for the history of these cones, thanks for this video. Steve

[@JohanSegeborn]

Cheers Steve

[@rickya3877]

That Spector Studios guy must have severe hearing damage because he also claimed that different brands and vintages of tubes all sound the same...once again,thanks for the great content,Johan!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Ricky!

[@alecboyyes]

I have some KM blackbacks in my AC30, nice sounding speakers. Kurt Mueller still manufactures speaker cones, I don't know if Celestion still uses them though.

[@jublaim]

Great video, Johan! And it seems like a mystery about the speaker cones through the years. Thanks also for reminding about Bygone Tones, been there briefly. About cones/sounds, I've got a 1974 "Creamback" G12H 55Hz original cone and her sister reconed with unknowned 75Hz cone in my latest speaker comparison (some years ago).

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Mats! That sounds interesting. I’ve always referred to your great speaker burn in videos

[@BlueHouseSoundStudio]

Scenario: Company in question told salesman directly that they are exactly the same. Remember all the tooling lives in China now and we all understand they have products to sell. If it doesn’t matter to you It doesn’t matter. But if you want to learn. Forget the KZbin opinions And buy them yourself! Do your own tests. That’s really the only thing that matters. The next best thing is Johans channel when it comes to classic guitar tone. The sonic information he has documented and quantified is unprecedented.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, I’m glad to hear that!

[@erajad]

Really enjoyed the discussion, laid out so clearly and carefully. Also enjoy the slightly more "long form" video. It's still well under an hour. ;-)

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks erajad! I’m glad to hear that

[@stefftrim]

Brilliant comparison, Johan. But you're right about the confusion on where/ when the 3 different cone types were used. The most scientific research I remember you did by sanding down a cone for the purpose of research, if a more worn out cone would get closer to original Pulsonic sound. What further more baffles me is the lack of attempt from Celestion to do what Gibson did, in the process to recreate sound of yesteryear. Off course the music we play, if it is Eminem or rab and that kind, who cares enough for the guitar tone to be superb. But when I plug my Gibson R8 into a Marshall (homeworked Marshall '64) with GZ34 or a Chapmann ML- Classis, I want the whole sound system to "breathe" and it does in a 4 x 12 1960A cabinet with 2 pc G12M75, Pulsonic, T1221 in a X with 2 ps G12H75, R/C I, T1217 Greybacks. That became my personal sound. I dare you, that my experience with Pulsonic and R/C is almost like including the "loudness" botton on a Hi- Fi system, but that's because it fits my tone, other speakers like Vintage 30 or G12 Heritage are all right too. But I lack the experience of gigging in a larger area. And my gear mentioned above stays with me. Trävlig helg, Johan

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Steffen! Trevlig helg!

[@royal7743]

They usually reply to email inquiries promptly, within a day or two when contacting them through the Celestion site, always pleasant, knowledgeable and helpful

[@schmolly75]

Thats true, but sometimes, even about quite recent speaker, they have no recording. I asked them about a 15" "made in England" with a big aluminium frame and they did not know what it is !

[@qddk9545]

Do you think you will get knowledged people to answer you?? You will be put through a standard helpdesk with a lot of student assistants that probably know nothing about what you are asking them, and in the end they will send you some random info, to get rid of you.

[@thisperfectworld]

Very important info! Crucial to any who wish to understand classic rock guitar tones! I am interested to learn about this Bygone Tones site, too!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, glad to hear that! Yeah the Bygone tones site is an important contribution to music history

[@manfredschwalenberg5819]

Great to see you on here again. Hope all is well.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Manfred!

[@jean-philippemorin1176]

From your videos we clearly hear a difference between those speakers. Interesting to hear your point of view as you have a lot of experience comparing these old speakers, compared to most of us I believe. :) I understand why celestion says they are the same prducts. They make the "same products" with the parts available at the moment. Any marketing department would say this, unless they try to use the differences to say they are "improved" to sell more, if that makes sense. As Glenn and you mentionned, the tolerance and parts can be different thrpugh the years. celestion is tied to what their suppliers provide them, from a manufacturing point of view. We can see differences on other speakers as well, same thing is happening comparing vintage 30 speakers from early 2000 with current versions, made in usa vs china etc. It would be interesting to see glenn to compare old green back with its black back and get its opinion. In the end Glenn seems to love and enjoy the black back he has gotten, and he might use it for its work, and that's what matters I think. We might even see him getting an old green back to compare later, I would not be surprised. It would be nice to get its point of view from there.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Jean-Philippe! Great feedback. And yeah It would indeed be interesting to hear Glenn do a shootout between a Pulsonic coned Greenback and a Kurt Mueller coned Blackback. I personally prefer blackbacks to Greenbacks for the metal tones Glenn usually plays. I think that the guitar sound on his channel is great.

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

@@JohanSegeborn I’d love to try that sometime! Just need to FIND them!

[@toddneary]

Great stuff, Johan 👍 Thanks for sharing this wealth of information.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Todd!

[@AaronRash]

I agree, when listening to early AC/DC and Hendrix etc... those speakers sounded like they do now, which makes me think the whole age thing is not really a thing as much as people think. If they made them sound like that back then, there has got to be a way to do it again! Oddly enough I got a 69 greenback from bygone and it sounded identical to my new greenback, it was weird. I ended up sending it back. Brian is such a nice guy and deserves praise for all his research into those, and you do too Johan. I've got a 76 blackback that I'll never get rid of, it sounds amazing. I actually prefer the 2nd generation cones on the greenbacks for me over the pulsonics

[@JohanSegeborn]

Glad you like it

[@fallenshallrise]

2 points. The paper cone in the speaker is going to effect the sound more than a plastic cap. Companies change suppliers or factories to save costs and they always say 'it sounds exactly the same'.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks!

[@alanst.4417]

Hi Johan, it's great you decided to confront the bold statement that greenbacks, blackbacks, creambacks etc. are all the same. Who else should do that?! Thanks for the comprehensive table and all the work you put into this. The length was just ok for me. I doubt Celestion have the balls to answer this in a proper, evidence-based manner as you do though...

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Alan!

[@SDPickups]

I have a '74 Greenback, Pulsonic cone. Got it for $150 on Reverb. Much warmer than the modern Chinese Greenbacks, which are great speakers, much more clear and bright tone. I actually prefer the Chinese versions, and now they are getting hard to find and are very popular.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Cheers Dave!

[@whwilson3708]

In 1978 I took the back off of my friend Plexi's cab to peak inside. He had got the half stack from his cousin. It had three green backs and one black back. He told me his cousin said he had replaced one speaker when the cab was almost new and that the black back was the same as the green back they had just ran out of the green material and whomever was making them had molded them in black so production could continue.

[@chickenlickin3820]

When were the speaker connections on the lower part of the speaker? i think its now normally on the upper side of the chassis.

[@picksalot1]

Interesting topic and excellent information provided in a thorough, balanced, and thoughtful manner. Thanks Johan for being such a reliable source and making such useful videos.👍 Due to the highly subjective nature of hearing and trying to describe sound, it might be beneficial to use a computer Program/Plugin to compare Speaker Frequency profiles/outputs. "Match EQ" type programs by Ozone, FabFilter, Logic Pro, etc. produce accurate objective results that visually represent where frequency differences occur. I would be interested in seeing such comparisons. Thanks

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, Thanks I’m glad to hear that! And yeah we should indeed record a bunch of each type and then do an EQ match between them to determine the average delta

[@qddk9545]

It is probably not that easy. With experience from measuring HiFi speakers, I can attest the 2 speakers with the same frequency response, will not necessarily sound the same. A spectrum analyzer could be helpful too. And measuring of impulse responses at many different frequencies.

[@Seraphiqueband]

Great archaeology! Hope they find someone @celestion to dig it up.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Hope so too!

[@brightfalls6788]

I’ve got a pair of the 20 watt Heritage Greenbacks and they sound so good compared to my standard production Greenbacks, I regret not buying more when they were still available. However, the internet says that the EVH Greenbacks are exactly the same as my Heritage ones, is this true Johan? Do they actually have the same Pulsonic style cones?

[@scottdunn2178]

I love the little diagram. My 25w Blackbacks are from September 1975 (JH29X) 👍

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Scott!

[@aronhallam6449]

was the factory in nottingham or am i confusing it with something else ?

[@oceanchief2388]

Thank you very much Johan. Very informative. Cheers.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Glad to hear it, Cheers!

[@matthewf1979]

The specifications may be the same, but the materials were not. I run into that with modern “boutique” speaker manufacturers and it’s frustrating as heck. I absolutely love 60’s and early 70’s “Greenbacks” and Alnico Jensen speakers from the late 50s. I just have a lot of trouble getting some that sound good or aren’t damaged in shipping. I just stick to new speakers now. WGS has really impressed me as of late with their own line and the speakers they build for Jupiter.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah, I would assume the choice of paper pulp supply for any given year would be highly dependent on the general profitable paper pulp industry

[@bubbahotep5439]

Pulsonic had their disaster of a fire and came back with a name change; Kurt Mueller. Talk to Jim @ Scumback Speakers. He haas many, many vintage Celestions, and has details on Celestionn cones and other suppliers. His cones are from Kurt Mueller/Pulsonic in the UK. Can't believe anyone would know more.....

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, yeah Jim knows a great deal about this.

[@BlueHouseSoundStudio]

Unfortunately although I appreciate the attempt and like them, my pair of Scum backs don’t seem to have a sound that is in the same family as my 6 black backs which span 3 models.

[@psychoetry6556]

Compelling. It really makes you wonder about speakers, their manufacture, their marketing, and whether or not amp manufacturers care much about the consumer.

[@scottdunn2178]

As a Ken Fischer protege I love the idiosyncrasies of this stuff. Ken urged me to get my '75 25w 75hz Blackbacks with the Kurt Mueller 1777 cones back in '92 and I still have them.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Glad to hear that!

[@ElmoSyr]

I'd say that there is one more element which is bypassed when talking simply about cones and comparing them. (Which you do address in your more in depth videos.) Which is that there are also basically 8 versions of each speaker of each cone type. The magnet size, G12M and G12H, has a significant effect on the sound. The resonance frequency 55hz or 75hz of the cone is a huge contributor to the sound. And lastly the ohms of the element has a slight effect on the sound of the speaker, as there is more physical copper winding in the 16ohm one vs 8ohms. (and more importantly using 16 vs 8ohms will make your amp sound different since, it is tapped from different outputs of the transformer, and audio output transformers are as well imperfect and vary in actual frequency-wide impedance) So there are 2x2x2 variables in the whole thing in a single year's speaker alone. I own a pulsonic G12M from '69, a pulsonic G12H from '73, a Kurt Mueller G12H from '76, and a '91 reconed '69 G12M. All 75Hz. The recone sounds the least pleasant of the bunch and all sound totally different from each other.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah, those variants are acknowledged by Celestion though, maybe with exception of G12M-55

[@DMSProduktions]

I had a '73 JMP B box with 4 green backs in it! Can't remember now if the cones were black or grey. I think they were black. It sounded terrible once warmed up! I would say there were from the Pulsonic era, MUD central! It only sounded good for about 15 mins!

[@SDPickups]

Yeah, for sure. I have a '74 Greenback and looking at the cone its Pulsonic. Very dark sounding speaker compared to my Chinese Greenbacks which are GREAT speakers and getting hard to find now.

[@DMSProduktions]

@@SDPickups Ok, probably stiffer, & better doped! I don't think mine were ever doped, cos they got soft very quickly! I only use LORANTZ speakers these days, & they stay CRISP hour after hour of playing! Sure the treble softens slightly on them, (ALL speakers DO to some degree!) but do NOT lose their overall clarity like these Greenbacks did! WORST speaker I ever heard! I still listen back to some recordings I did with those speakers and my tone was total MUD!

[@DMSProduktions]

@@GCKelloch Maybe not, however, for guitar you DON'T really need a bottom freq of 55hz! His bass speakers certainly do that, or lower, as I have an amp loaded with a bass driver. Still they have a bizarre clarity I have not heard in other brands of speaker, & they flatter anything fed into them! Re the old greenbacks, you might be right, they COULD have been burnt out! I bought it off a mate who was about 20 years ahead of me, & he had that 1 fr many years so idk! But they sounded like crap once they got going! I might have a word to Michael next time I go to the factory, as I bought an Ashton BT50 combo, & the 'Celestion' in that, while sounded ok, sounds like a cardboard box when compared to my Lorantz speakers! Cheers!

[@DMSProduktions]

@@GCKelloch ARE you Aussie? Lorantz are Aussie made in Dandenong Vic. (I live 5 mins from the factory, & know the owner personally!) Yes, re the treble frequencies, oh yes, I do LIKE them on these 1s! They DO get bright , BUT are not harsh like some generic Celestions like the 70/80 put in some amps! I got a BT50 Ashton last week, it has a Celestion of some type, it isn't the 70/80 as it sounds a bit scooped & boxy! It's bright, but a bit on the ears! The Lorantz are just AS bright, but they DON'T pierce your ear drums! The clarity is phenomenal! I used to use Lorantz based PA systems back in the 90s, & they were so clear, even when driven hard, the top end was not harsh or fizzy like say a JBL, or Celestion PA speaker loaded system was! As to my old Marshall quad box, I ran max 100W into 100W! I ran lower powered amps into it as well, for less volume, same thing happened, just got mushy! Prob voice coils got too hot! Insulation might have been shot on them! I sold right at the start of the vintage craze 10 years ago for $1K! I sold it to an old shredder mate of mine I went to school with! Fancied himself up there with the likes of Malmsteen! LOL! IDK of he still owns it! I warned him it would get mushy once warmed up, but he said he wanted something that would 'warm' his tone up! (THAT'D do it alright lol! )

[@DMSProduktions]

@@GCKelloch Ah, I see. I never ran mine flat stick. I was using a G100 thru it for some years, so it didn't need to be wound up full. MIGHT have been using 50W if lucky! Just worn speakers I'd say! Good riddance!

[@vkuolema79]

Man i always wonder if you worked researching and writing protocols for Quality Assurance / Quality Control. Next time i'm in Gotherburg i'll get you a couple of beers. This is really nice info for us sound geeks

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi Alvaro! Glad to hear it. I have actually done quite a bit of research in Quality Assurance, so it’s really cool that you notice! I’ll gladly take you up on those beers! Cheers!

[@vkuolema79]

@@JohanSegeborn Awesome i'll let you know in advance

[@ahamsoueu]

The comparative clip is very nice, because I own a Greenback and never played on the Blackback. My personal taste liked the Blackback a lot more, it has firm and rounded bass, nice highs, and a lovely mid character not to overwelming, that thing got attitude. Greenbacks sound nice and very recognizable, but perhaps a little too generic by now.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Glad to hear that!

[@R3TR0R4V3]

Great topic and an important one too! 👍

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, glad to hear it!

[@joeytruelove]

What I have heard from reliable sources is that "Pulsonic" was a paper formulation by the cone manufacturer Kurt Mueller. The reason the RIC appeared was, accordingly, a make-shift solution until Kurt Mueller had rebuilt their plant and could supply the new cones. Obviously, though, not the Pulsonics the formulation having been lost in the fire.

[@vinnieramone4818]

I think the greenback / black back nomenclature is still pretty useful even if they didn't make them sound different on purpose because they do sound different. I wonder if any of the later Rolla greenbacks sound like black backs. I think there's a good chance that celestion doesn't even know where what their suppliers were back then unless they had a really good archivist cuz they were just trying to get speakers out the door.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Vinnie!

[@richardleerodgers5303]

Outstanding information thank you for your effort

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Richard!

[@emilrolof]

Bra Johan, visa var skåpet skall stå! 😊

[@JohanSegeborn]

Trevlig helg, Emil! 😀

[@emilrolof]

@@JohanSegeborn Tack detsamma! 😊

[@chickenlickin3820]

I have a pair of Chinese 'Greenback's' in my Vox AC30C2

[@Stefan-]

Here is the official info straight copy/pasted from the Celestion site if you haven seen it, google the creamback story and you will probably find this Celestion page (youtube doesnt like links) Qoute below. There was a period during the early 1970s when occasionally we’d run out of green to make the rear cans for the G12M and G12H speakers.Back then, the significance of the “green back” wasn’t yet fully realised, so we’d use whatever colour came to hand. At various times we produced the Blackback, the Greyback and sometimes… the Creamback. Whatever the colour of the can, physically and tonally the speakers were actually always Greenbacks. I have an old Swedish Malmberg 4x12 cab from about 1969 myself which has three greenbacks from 1968-1969 with Pulsonic cones and one creamback from 1975 where it is stamped RICLDX on the cone, possibly a replacement back then because one speaker broke, i at least know it wasnt replaced during the 30 years i have owned it. The way i see it they are the same product but like what is common in production of almost anything parts can change due to availability or absolesence and the cone changed in this case which changed the sound a bit so while they are the same product they are not exactly the same. Its a bit funny how i mostly happened to buy that 4x12 cab 30 years ago just because it was cheap and now the prices of the speakers has skyrocketed.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah they are all the G12M, Celestion never changed the name or announced updates throughout the 1970s as far as I know. But like for all products suppliers change and pulp industry supply may change without the company choosing to market it as a new model. As I explain in the video there is three different type of papers (1962-1973ish Pulsonic, 1973-1975 RIC1, 1975-1980s Kurt Mueller). Your Creamback has the RIC1 cone. The RIC1 paper is blueish and the paper is significantly less coarse and felt like than the Pulsonic paper that’s darker and slightly green.

[@Stefan-]

@@JohanSegeborn Yes i know (finally my lengthy comment stuck to youtube also 😀). The info om Celestions site answers the question if they are all greenbacks and they say that they are, again you are of course correct that the cones are somewhat different (at least when it comes to the material) and i also stated that but changes like that is really a very normal part of production although not ideal of course. I have been working in electronics in prodution and service for over 30 years myself and when a part goes obsolete you just replace it with something else that does the same job usually after changing the construction somewhat to accomodate for the new part but that doesnt mean its not the exact same product from a product perspective, usually no one but the manufacturer knows the difference. So the different cones of course does change the sound a bit like we have all heard but its still the same product. BTW you may know this but the Celestion Vintage 30 also sounds different in different years of production which has also been covered by Glenn Fricker. I realised after writing all this that maybe we are on the same page after all, ha ha, it maybe is just the nuances of this that made it seem that we were not. All this is of course interesting for a tech and sound nerd like me, ha ha.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Stefan! Yeah indeed no manufacturer will ever be able to keep a stable sustainable flow of supplies from such diverse areas as magnet material, paper cone material and coil wire material over time. That would make the speakers insanely expensive over time, since you’d need to secure your own supply from the paper pulp industry, for instance, when it’s no longer profitable. So specs change although you still market it under the same product name. Fender Strat is another good example. Both 1970 and 1979 Strats were marketed as the same thing. Today Fender acknowledges that there is a difference between these two and there is a business case for them to do so. Celestion though does not have a business case to acknowledge the difference between a 1979 G12M and a 1970 G12M, which certainty is underlined by the fact that all reissues of Pulsonic reissues are discontinued. In fact the entire section of legacy speakers on Celestions web site is Pulsonic reissues. I really dislike videos where content creators try to get that gotcha moment with different companies or other content creators. I’m a huge fan of Celestion past and present products. The reason this video is merely that I want my viewers to know that there are three distinct chronological eras with very consistent but also different sound and dynamics from the G12M (and G12H) Cheers!

[@Stefan-]

@@JohanSegeborn Yes its an interesting subject and good information. I also like my Celestions, in fact i think i have almost not even owned any other brand of guitar speakers, i also currently have a 2x12 with Vintage 30´s. All the best my friend !

[@JohanSegeborn]

Cheers my friend!

[@alexdenton6586]

The real question is what is the best guitar speaker in the world , that is better in every way

[@JohanSegeborn]

There is no such speaker in my estimate. For classic rock the Greenback is one of the most highly regarded but it’s not because it’s the most accurate or efficient. Since the speakers acts as a subtractive filter there will be many sub optimal speakers applicable for different styles. Other legendary speakers are Jensen P12R/Q/N, JBL D120F, EVM12L and Vintage 30

[@ilovemywah]

Had many early celestion greenbacks over the yrs, what I remember looking for is the colour of the Solder Tag, true greenbacks have a Black solder tag (pre-rola) & the very early (Rola) models also had Black solder tag's, around the time of the change to the (grey) solder tag the sound of the speakers also changed..

[@middle_pickup]

Enjoyed this one. I wish there was more clarity on this whole thing.

[@dazfarrell]

Why?? It really isn't that important......

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Zachary

[@middle_pickup]

@@dazfarrell lol Do you know what channel you're watching? Maybe you can't hear the difference. 🤦🏼🤷🏼

[@dazfarrell]

@@middle_pickup I can, obviously. But who gives a monkeys on what was made an eternity ago....

[@noisetrust]

Very informative thank you for giving your insight on this.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, glad to hear it!

[@leiferickson3183]

Great video! Can you tell me this: If you take a modern Celestion and recone it with a modern Kurt Muller cone, will it sound like the late 70's black backs? If so that era of speakers is going to crash in value.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi Leif! I don’t know if Kurt Mueller is still making guitar speaker cones. They’re still on m the speaker business though

[@Biblrocks]

Great research, thank you! cheers

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, glad to hear it! Cheers!

[@tomakafrankconlon3207]

Great video as usual. I think we have to be realistic. There is nothing that was made by man that can not be duplicated with todays science. Profit makers will tell us otherwise. All a legend needs is myth and time to become real.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Tom!

[@heavy_70s70]

Hey awesome video as always! If you could get your hands on a Traynor YBA-1 I am sure you would be impressed, and would be awesome to see a video about it!!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Yeah I’ve heard great things about the YBA-1 so first chance!

[@ProfVonW]

I actually liked that blackback tone in the clip!

[@mrkite89]

Hi Johan! It would be interesting also to investigate the different paper used in the Vintage, UK Reissue and Chinese Alnico Blue speakers (used by Vox in the early-mid 2000's): my Vox\Celestion Chinese Blue has a different tone than the UK one, maybe more "vintagey"? Thanks in advance!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah definitely! I’ll see what I can find

[@tomasvanecek8626]

While I can understand this obsession with paper.. to me it is ALL about the magnet used. Alnico Celestions - sound of God. Ceramics - grating, killing my ears. And I´ve got the G12Cs you´ve mentioned here, in a HW Bluesbreaker combo.. I played them for many hours, but the ear fatigue was not worth it. The magnet makes more of the sound than a paper .. IMHO ;) But Alnico became too expensive in mid 60s.. so they went the cheap route. Not for the good of the sound.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi! We should definitely do a study on that!

[@tomasvanecek8626]

@@JohanSegeborn That would be GREAT ! Thanks.. Your channel is just the best.

[@MysticMountainGems]

You're the King my friend. 🤘🏻💥🖤

[@JohanSegeborn]

Cheers my friend

[@peterschaefer1665]

Thanks for doing this Johan!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Peter!

[@Stefan-]

For some reason my comment disappears after i post it on this perticular video others seem to work, i have tried a number of times. Testing if this one will stick.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi Stefan!

[@jeffallen3382]

The hack at Spectra Studios is just that... a hack!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Well, I actually like his combination between gear and comedy in many videos but here he has received bad information

[@jeffallen3382]

@@JohanSegeborn you're too kind Johan. He is directing his criticism towards you in that video he did there. Just as he directed his criticism of not knowing what makes great tone toward Pete Thorn and Dave Friedman in the tube video Glenn released recently. Both of those videos were to discredit you 3 in all the great videos you have done showing the difference in gear and how it effects ones tone. He is doing it to bolster his "opinion" and shoot down anyone who says otherwise. That's why I said he is a "hack". I even think a vast majority of his followers are bots... but that is just a hunch I have.

[@mrcoatsworth429]

@@jeffallen3382 Uuh Glenn Fricker didn't direct any criticism towards Johan. He just referred to this channel. What are you talking about?

[@jeffallen3382]

@@mrcoatsworth429 Who do you think Glenn is trying to tear down with his recent videos on tubes don't change tone and now this video about these speakers are all the same? It doesn't take a genius to figure out who Glenn is referring to in these 2 different videos...

[@mrcoatsworth429]

@@jeffallen3382 "tear down"? You sound like you just *want* to be offended by something.

[@semdallinga69]

One thing I do know is that Kurt Mueller (Kurt Müller) manufactures speaker cones, they still do. So it would refer to a company/factory. I couldn't find a whole lot on Pulsonic though. Edit: From what I'm able to find now, is that Pulsonic cones were manufactured by Kurt Mueller as well.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Interesting, do you have some reference for that

[@AnodyneHipsterInfluencer]

Nothing Glen Fricker says should be taken at all seriously. He's the type of person that when he's going on with one of his stank faced, head shaking, finger wagging, hubristic, "this is what it is" tangents you just smile and nod as sincerely as possible and say; "Yeah, sure, definitely. Hey, okay, good to see you, I gotta run!"

[@dinmentor]

Kung! 🙌🏻💪🏻👏🏻👌🏻😎 Very interesting information. I hope Celestion replies 🥳

[@JohanSegeborn]

Cheers my friend!

[@pjoliver182]

Great discussion video; I loved it!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Paul!

[@adamwatson6916]

Even with a les Paul's those black backs nailed the ACDC tone . I would love to know exactly what speakers alex lifesom had in his marshals cabs before the switch to hiwatt people almost always say G12M 25 but I get closer with heritage G12H30 s both 55 and 75 but especially with the 75hz H30s and who knows if they are green black or creamback era . I would f guess the cabs were from 74 so probably creamback era .

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Yeah Alex Lifeson had a killer Marshall/Celestion tone

[@mgalbu]

I don't know what the other guy said as I couldn't make it past the first 14 seconds of his video. But I'm sure I agree with you, Johan. LOL. Did Celestion answer? That would be very interesting to hear...

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Max! They haven’t answered yet though.

[@steadyrollingfin]

Thank You for very good information and comparison. I have interesting Blackbacks Celestion T1220 AJ20X G12H 30watts 8ohms 75hz. Maybe from 1976?

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Yeah the date code is [month][year]. A=Jan, J=1976. Though sometimes Celestion printed them backwards, which could make it September 1968. But the black cap makes it most likely 1976

[@peterschmidt9942]

It's funny, I would have thought the earlier greenbacks would have sounded more AC/DC like as I'm pretty sure they were using older gear when they started out. It was pretty common with Aussie bands at the time to use older gear as overseas bands would bring their gear here for tours and then when the tour was over, sell it off and leave it here where Aussie bands would pick it up cheap. But the blackbacks to me sound very 70's AC/DC (Like Dirty Deeds era).

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah, Dirty Deeds really sounds like Blackbacks

[@vannmagruder9038]

Would you ever do a comparison of the hemp back to the greenback? I’ve been curious but don’t wanna dump the money on it if it’s gonna be bad, Or maybe the neo-speakers?

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hi! I’ll keep it in mind. I played the tone tubby red 50 on channel long ago though

[@stevencancel1727]

I remember you tested a "78100" style cone from around 1974 creamback celestion maybe error in identification?

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah briefly Celestion had a fourth cone I think in the summer of 74, called 98700

[@snapascrew]

Celestion also said that vintage 30’s are the same over the years. From my own experience the difference between my 2001 and 2004 quartet is pretty damn noticeable and they’re in the same cab and same ohmage… and don’t even get me started on my 2008 v30’s😂😂🤣 (all referring to Mesa 8 ohm models).

[@JohanSegeborn]

I heard there was a German youtuber that compared a bunch of V30s from different years. I can’t recall the name right now though

[@divebomb99]

@@JohanSegeborn Might be this, from Kristian Kohle. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioHInGmLn7Cml80&t

[@jcwear89]

Excellent explanation, I learnt a lot for your video!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Great to hear that!

[@vintagetone22]

Celestion greenback all the way sir.👍👍👍👍❤🌷🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🔥🌹🔥🌹🔥🔥🌹🔥🌹

[@zoomzoom3950]

Celestion G12E-60 for the win! 😁

[@powdermnky007]

You should contact Celestion to see if they would build you a custom Johan Greenback. I bet you could figure out some modern materials to get a pulsonic tone. :)

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! I’m glad to hear that!

[@HofiAgilAghov]

Love this channel so much

[@JohanSegeborn]

I also wanna recommend SoloDallas great article on the subject! I’ve probably read that one 100 times by now! solodallas.com/celestion-loudspeakers-from-blues-to-greenies-and-beyond

[@pleximaster1338]

Hi Johan! This interesting! :)

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

Glenn Fricker...lol I can only take a few minutes of that guy. Guys into that super heavy music don't always know good "old school" tone or the difference in classic speakers. I hope he learns something from Johan's video. Of course Celestion wants everyone to think it's the same speaker and they want people to think they still make that speaker so they can sell them. For most people they are close enough. But for guys chasing a specific classic tone you can clearly hear the difference in cones.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks, I’m glad to hear that! Glenn has a great mix between comedy and gear in his videos that is often very entertaining but here he certainly got some bad info

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

@@JohanSegeborn His loud talking/yelling is annoying.

[@gerrydaly5409]

Very interesting- thanks

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Gerry

[@dominikpohli2381]

for the jimi hendrix and led zepelin tone i prefer the h magnet version the m version is more eric clapton and born to be wild from steppenwolve it has mor nasal midrange. what i realy like is the wgs invader 50 speaker its greenback style speaker with a bit more lowend and power handle but has that upper mid nasal top end you also get good 60s vintage tones out of the new creamback 65 and h75 but vintage speakers are vintage speaker i think the kurt mueller cones have more upper mids than the pulsonics thats is why i like the kurt mueller version

[@superspeederbooster]

God damn, who knew rock n rolling would be so nerdy hahaha

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hahaha! You’re certainly right about that, and I apologize for it!

[@jcspaziano]

Just think or how valuable your documentation will be when these speakers finally give in to time and deterioration. Its why I feel Impulse response technology is so important to perfect. These cones wont last forever.

[@JohanSegeborn]

I should definitely do a video where we investigate how close we can get

[@jcspaziano]

​@@JohanSegeborn Agreed! Have you considered making your own speaker impulse packs and selling them? There are plenty of players using modelers that would love these tones! Cheers!