John 17:5, Did Yeshua Pre-Exist?

Part of discussing the nature of Yeshua, is the topic of Him pre-existing and whether or not that makes Him the Almighty.
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[@shirleybeetge2077]

This is one of the best teachings ever. Short and clear and the truth.

[@shirleybeetge2077]

I have studied the Bible my self. And from all the teaching that you have done. I could not find one fault. This is how I can find who is studying Gods Word and who don't. Thank you. May God bless you further in the truth and your teachings.

[@1erinjames]

And yet Scripture says, "In the Beginning was The Word. The Word was with God and was God". He was and is and is to come!!

[@1erinjames]

@@kingdomseekers1973 I'm sure you did.

[@iJoel00]

@@1erinjames the word is the speech, or plan of 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄 - it’s translator bias that has personified it within John 1. The messiah is the life and light of men within the word/logos in John 1:4. He’s what John came testifying to in John 1:6-13. He is the glory of the logos in John 1:14. The messiah is not the word - he existed, or was foretold within the word of the Father.

[@1erinjames]

@@iJoel00 John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. He is The Word!!

[@iJoel00]

@@1erinjames the word “he” is “houtos” meaning “this, these, etc.” - are you familiar with personification in literature? Think “wisdom” in Proverbs. Wisdom is not a person, but is spoken/written of as a woman. It’s not different here. All of the instances in which translators have taken the liberty to translate “he” with reference to the word in John 1 they could have also translated it she, it, this, that, etc. The word is the plan/speech of 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄. The messiah speaks the word of 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄 (John 14:24, as prophesied in Deut 18:15-19) - his character and authority (hebraically, “name”) are from the word of 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄.

[@IsJesusGod.]

@@1erinjames Let's start at the (beginning), at John 1:1. I believe John 1:1 is the most misunderstood Scripture within Christianity. This is because MOST of Christianity believe the word in John 1:1 is a second person, even millions who do not believe Jesus is GOD. Let's have a look at John 1:1. John 1:1 The Correct Meaning. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. If Jesus is the (Word), who is WITH GOD, and if Jesus were GOD as MOST believe, we would now have TWO GODS SIDE by SIDE, contradicting the whole Bible. John 1:1 is simply telling us: In the beginning was the word: meaning GOD's (word), statement, speech, divine utterance, plan, power, authority of GOD expressing Yahweh’s thoughts, action, message, purpose and will, spoken by the breath of Yahweh’s mouth, which is why John tells us: and the word was with God, and the word was God, as we are told in Psalm 33:6: By Yahweh’s (word,) the heavens were made; all their army by the breath of his mouth. World English Bible. Notice how Jesus tells us how the (word) comes from the mouth of GOD: But answering He said, "It has been written: 'The man shall live not by bread alone, but by every word coming out of the mouth of God.'" Matthew 4:4. And we know from what Jesus tells us in John 14:24 saying the (word) of GOD, and His commandments come through Jesus from His Father: The one not loving Me does not keep My words. And the (word) that you hear is not Mine, but that of the Father having sent Me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John 1:2 The Correct Meaning. (He) was in the beginning with God. The word (HE) is a FALSE modern translation, DECEIVING MOST into believing (HE) is a second person, however the Greek word is instead (Οὗτος) and says (THIS). John 1:2 is simply telling us: (THIS) was in the beginning with God, meaning (THIS) plan, message, purpose and will, of Yahweh was in the beginning with GOD. ----------------------------------------------- All things came into being through (Him), and without (Him) not even one thing came into being that has come into being. The word (Him) is a FALSE modern translation, DECEIVING MOST into believing (Him) is a second person, however the Greek word is (autos) and also translates as (IT). John 1:3 is simply telling us: All things came into being through (IT), meaning ALL of Creation came into existence by Yahweh’s (word), statement, speech, divine utterance, plan, and power: and without (IT) Yahweh’s (word), statement, speech, divine utterance, plan, and power: not even one thing came into being that has come into being. Zechariah 12:1 An oracle. The word of Yahweh concerning Israel. Yahweh, who stretches out the heavens, and lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him says: ---------------------------------------------- John 1-4 The Correct Meaning. In (Him) was life, and the life was the light of men. The word (Him) is a FALSE modern translation, DECEIVING MOST into believing (Him) is a second person, however the Greek word is (autos), which also translates as (IT). John 1:4 is simply saying (autō αὐτῷ IT), meaning Yahweh’s (word), divine plan, purpose and power: was life, and the life was the light of men. The correct translations are confirmed by many like William Tyndale, martyred for his efforts to get the Bible to the public. “In the beginnynge was the worde, and the worde was with God, and the worde was god. The same was in the beginnynge with god. All thinges were made by it, and without it, was made nothinge that was made. In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men, and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not” (William Tyndale, The New Testament, 1534). Please read John 1 in 50+ English Translations By Sir Anthony Buzzard.

[@romerburato6297]

Colossians 1:17 KJV "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." If Jesus did not pre-exist before His actual incarnation, how would you explain the verse above that declares that all things are dependent on Him? That is the clear meaning of "by Him all things consist."

[@johnlawson6851]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hobaoYCflNeFpNE

[@Elroi3310]

All things refer to this : vers 16 thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers It simply states that he is above all authorities Compare Matthew 28: 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@jean-pierremassardo8627]

Brother, You made me amost cry of joy by listening to your video for I finaly found in your explanations someone who understands this verse correctly... Exactly the way it has to be understood. I have been seen as madman by many of my christian brothers who explain the pre existance of Yeshua through this verse. You made my day brother and I know I am not alone anymore to have received the truth you marvelously explain in your video. Be abundantly bless for your faith, your work and for sharing the truth ! Glory our king messiah Yeshua and to God the most high, his father and our father in Heavens. Thank you so much ! Your brother in Christ 😉

[@jean-pierremassardo8627]

Thanks for the proposal ! Yes with joy 🙂. I would be more than happy to get some biblical information to look at as well as some studys to immerse myself in ! Thanks for the awesome job all of you do for people like us who keep seeking the truth as well as information to defend our faith and our messiah and King Lord Jesus ! Be richly blessed brother 👍🏼

[@elusive4072]

John 1:1-3,14 CSB In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was with God in the beginning. [3] All things were created through him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. [14] The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. We observed his glory, the glory as the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[@JeffSmith-it4tm]

Paul taught the Father was Jesus's God, Paul never taught the trinity.,,,,,,,,,,,, Check out the verses below that clearly show that our Father is the “God” of our Lord Jesus Christ: . Ephesians 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. . . Romans 15:6 …so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . 2 Corinthians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort… . . Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. . . 1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! The above verses are very clear. Jesus Christ has a God. Who is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ? Ephesians 1:17 very clearly says that this God is our glorious Father. . . Jesus Christ himself called our Father his “God” and Father many different times in Scripture. John 20:17 …I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'” . . Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name. . . Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

[@revamp6612]

Correction. The same was in the beginning with God. Not “He.” New translations changed this.

[@TheSlickguy01]

It's definitely not "he" 😂

[@SproutingHealth]

Chag sameach, J & R❣️ Hope u all are well. Just rewatched/re-listened to this. Absolutely *LOVE* it. I think another commenter phrased it so well in saying that this is "the final nail in the trinitarian coffin." This is such a FANTASTIC video that does an excellent job of summarizing the matter in such a clear and concise fashion. When anyone brings up an idea--(namely theological)- yet can't easily explain it or support it with a succinct "elevator pitch" by logically using scripture to defend said point--I often say that it seems to immediately point towards a concern. This is a masterful "elevator pitch" using scripture to back up scripture without waivering or flip-flopping from one supposition to the other. Thank you. Keep up the amazing work, and PRAISE ABBA❣️❣️❣️ He is certainly NOT The Author of confusion.

[@Rydonittelo]

What denomination are you? You're saying a lot of things that I've always leaned towards.

[@cclouse28]

This was a great video. Very clear and concise. I enjoyed it 😊

[@glynnyliyahyisrayl8462]

My word reads john 17:5 "and now father , glorify me beside your own self , with the glory which I am to have with you before the world to come"

[@Mikha335]

The promised son of David that would reign forever would be an immortal resurrected Messiah, who would mediate the New Covenant inheritance for all who follow him. This is the pre determined plan of YHWH that secures the promise he made with Abraham in spite of Israel’s breach of contract.

[@jamesadams5281]

Thankyou for harmonizing these scriptsures

[@kingdomseekers1973]

My pleasure! All thanks to Yahweh who showed me, I'm happy to pass it along.

[@lampsaltlight]

Thank you 🙏. The simple and clear explanation I was looking for about this verse.

[@kingdomseekers1973]

Glad it was helpful!

[@yahsplain7414]

Excellent brother. All scripture must be weighed on a balanced scale ⚖️

[@yahwehyahshuaassemblywithm4483]

So good brother!

[@kingdomseekers1973]

Thank you!

[@justinmanley6003]

Shalom brother John; thanks for another great video! The mind of our Heavenly Father is truly awesome and the omniscient depths of His knowledge unfathomable to us as mere humans. To think of it: the offer of redemption through Messiah, known by Yah to be necessary, to save His beloved creations He was about to create from our disobedient misuse of the free will yet to be given us, and creating all things through that knowledge... Hallelujah He is mighty indeed!! Do you think that is what is being referred to in John 1:3, "All things were made through him. Without him, nothing was made that has been made"?

[@johnlawson6851]

Thank you Justin! I'm glad these videos are helpful, I'm hoping they lead people to the truth for years to come.

[@7ashoBeam]

@@johnlawson6851 There is nothing helpful here. You are teaching a deadly false doctrine and will be held responsible for leading others astray by your heresy!

[@johnlawson6851]

@@7ashoBeam I've heard that before, but I'm convinced that Monotheism is biblical.

[@ken440]

John is it your understanding you will live in the kingdom as a normal human subject, or rule with Jesus over the nations in the glorified state he currently has ?

[@ken440]

@@kingdomseekers1973 I see the "secret hid in God" which translators have erroneously called a "mystery" that Paul writes so much about. Its in most of Pauls epistles. I also see Jesus as the human messiah. And as such as recorded in the four gospels most of what we read there is Jesus coming to his people the nation of Israel, but more specifically as Bill Schlegel points out to the leaders and people of Judea. He comes to them as messiah, and at that stage not to Gentiles (the nations cast off at Babel) So in the four gospels we are not reading instruction to christians. The sermon on the mount and all the rest when he is teaching and admonishing he is talking to "his own" and so we should see it as their instruction, about the coming kingdom which he believed and they believed was immanent. The gospels show us how this "beginning" started, not as a fledgling church of christianity. That is very controversial to most believers and especially to trinitarian tradition. So as christians we are people of that "secret" which God had hidden up His sleeve you could say. And the point being that Paul brings out what he calls "my gospel" which is that the ekklasia of the "new birth" believers, us, are a new creation. Paul calls it "One New Man" and in that he is not talking about what we have been led to believe in traditional church, that we are like "turned over a new leaf" or that we are no longer sinners and ex shop lifters blashemers and fornicators, but we are now the Sons of God. Called to be sons of God. I will not get into gender debates and weaken this statement calling it children of God, though that is what it implies, because it is in reference to the "sons of God" that we read about in Gen6 etc, and Deut32 where "they" were placed "over the nations" at Babel event, the separating of the nations and the calling out of Abraham ("Jacob will be mine") The context being that as we see in psm82, those same sons of God having failed in their tasks, God has a scheme, a secret up His sleeve. To reunite the nations under his only begotten son Jesus. Jesus is made "the first up from the dead, first of many brothers." And so here we see this special only begotten son being the "bib brother" to other siblings. The "born again " (so now we also can be considers "begotten of God") sons of God. Main point is we are "One new man" and that is like a different type, not an individual nicety just for me aor just for you, but a new creation, the body. As the "body of the anointed one" we are promised that we are "raised in Christ" or "one in him" (in they, father and son) and are those "many brothers to come" so although now still "in earthen vessels" we are "glorified in him" to "reign with him." This is the difference where I am as a unitarian. I see a lot of scriptural translational obscurity over other subjects, (just like the ones over Jesus identity that we have discovered regarding trinity, heaven, hell etc) such as dispensations and the harpadzo (lifted or taken bodily) of 1Thes4, and the misinterpreted 2Thes "Apostia" (greek, which prior to the Reims bible meant just "Departed" and which was translitterated to say "apostacy" at writing of KJV. i.e. reaction of catholic church to Luther) So I see the body, us, as harpadzo to be "with him in the air" and to "always then be with him." And "ruling the nations with rods of iron," to quote biblical expression. This is the secret hid in God, that we be "Neither Jew nor Greek, male or female, bond nor master, but be a new creation" a replacement in the divine council of God, (Gods original plan that both human and angelic beings would meet in the great assembly before YHWH) being with Jesus, our "big brother," he in charge but us glorified as he is ruling and administering and rejuvenating earth. Through the millenium. i.e. not as normal flesh humans any more, just as Jesus, a amn, is no longer just flesh human, but glorified and in Gods presence. So I agree with you on most things, including the coming kingdom, but we will be in a glorified state, higher than angels, like Jesus is now, admininistrating and restoring and in the war on the rebel "sons of God" those powers principalities and authorities which Paul points out are our true enemy. What in Hebrew would be known as "ha satan" meaning "the adversary." Remember the kingdom to come is not the end game, not till the great white throne judgement. The current "church" is an interlude, a kind of pause in Gods dealings with Israel and the restoration of creation while at the moment the Jews are partly blind to all this. Then a new order is restored, Eden fulfilled. God again walks freely in "the garden' with all His myriad "sons." (I use "sons" in the same sense as "mankind" is used, no gender distinction.... i.e. neither male nor female) I hope you can see the points and not see it as an attack. I am obviously dispensation accepting and expecting pre trib harpadzo. I am concerned that many deal with the trinity lie, but then fail to question all the other clouded issues in scripture, thereby becoming unitarian types of the denomination they were in before, not digging into the wider picture. That was a lot sorry. A broad stroked paint job. Blessings.

[@ken440]

@@kingdomseekers1973 so you see by my explanation where and what I see Paul revealing in most of his epistles. We body believers will no longer be just ordinary men, living in the kingdom. But will be the type of "man" that Jesus is now. He will still be the head. You see? A "musterion" a secret hid in God. Mankind raised above the angelic spirits in authority, what some of the enemy rebelled about in the first place and corrupted mankind. Thats what scripture teaches. If you read Acts and the epistles you are reading instruction and revelation to the body of the anointed one (christ) but if you read the torah and hold to that you are trying to be a jew. If you read the teachings of Jesus in the gospels you are reading teaching to those jews who were being taught about the kingdom. (the kingdom which was put on hold for 2000yrs and counting, while the fulness of the gentiles comes in) So we must differentiate our reading in scripture as whether we are trying to do what YHWH was instructing ancient Israel b4 Jesus messiah, or what Jesus was telling his fellow jews (the red letter bibles), and we can take precedents and understandings of Gods plan of redemption from that, sort of "clarity in hindsight," but as to what who and why a christian, then Paul and the other apostles have the real oil in the epistles. The "blessed hope" is that we look to the call of the shout and are raised the dead and the living, and get to be with him and instructed, empowered etc and return with him at the Parousia. The creation groans in torment waiting the revealing of the sons of God.

[@JeffSmith-it4tm]

Masterful, Is this the same thing as Prolepsis?

[@robjr8774]

Affirmative.

[@user-bs4bj8dz1d]

Praise be IESVS CHRISTVS The Eternal Messiah The loving One The Wrathful One The Unshakable One AMEN 🔥🔥✝✝

[@IsJesusGod.]

Perfect teaching and perfectly true. I will add this video to my blog. Well done and explained.

[@SproutingHealth]

hmmmm... very VERY interesting. I was curious where u were gonna go with this. SUPER interesting examples

[@SproutingHealth]

@@kingdomseekers1973 Well, I def had been thinking that He did in fact pre-exist. Until this video that is now challenging that. Haha The jury is still out for me as far as unitarianism goes... I have bounced around quite a bit. I guess the biggest mental obstacle that I have is Yshua being The Son of The Most High---aka how can Abba's divine seed *not* be divine through Yshua?! (except if Abba wouldn't hv that be His perfect plan of course...?..since naturally He can do whatever He wants.) (And I know that just that previous question itself abt divinity can open up a practically limitless can of worms due to various definitions/interpretations of the word "divine.") ANYWAY... just detailing my thoughts... So they've bounced around from the pendulum swinging to one side then bk the other way. A huge area of trepidation that I hv and seem to witness in others is the concern/enormous caution used when even entertaininging the idea that Yshua may not actually *be divine*. (That word again. Haha) And I get it that from an unitarian's perspective that you all are similarly concerned abt treading so very carefully as to hopefully not violate the 1st commandment. For me when thinking solely logically abt all this, unitarianism seems to make the most sense, minus the whole divine seed component. (It seems like u mayve done a video dissecting the word divine once upon a time, n perhaps that's the reason for the "alert" that I get when using it.) Ok, must wrap this up. Those are currently my scattered thoughts on the topic. Aren't u glad u asked!? 😂

[@Cameron9mm]

⁠@@SproutingHealthOnce you see the truth, there’s no turning back to the false. Glad Elohim showed you that this perspective of reading the scriptures is true. Yahusha Messiah is the Son of Elohim Yahusha Messiah worships Elohim Yahusha Messiah glorifies Elohim

[@sandracockrum17]

So, to summarize in answering your question, since we don't say we preexisted.. why do we say Yahoshua did? Because the text reads 1. We were chosen in him. Now we can't be in someone if they didn't exist before us. So he had to be the first. Yet Adam was the first man made from dust of the earth. And Yahoshua didn't pop up until approx ad 4 - bc 4 So using the Bibles analogy of the tree(s), we see the tree of life was in the garden, not planted just was & still is, then we have all the trees (us) planted. We were allowed to eat from the Tree of Life, our source of life & truth. The tree didn't need us in order to have life. Because this Tree was self existing, where as we were created, planted. Fruit has flesh, we were told to freely eat the flesh/ fruit of the Tree of Life. Jesus says several times in John to eat my flesh. He claims to not only be the way to the tree of life (his flesh, the veil that was rent) but he also claims to be the Truth which is contained in that Tree, and the Truth leads us to life, which Yahoshua also claims to be. He is also the sword (which is the word) that guards the way to the source of life, and he is also the Shepherd that the Sword slays Zech 13:7 Yahoshua is literally everything. If you've seen me, you've seen the FATHER, He is an exact image & likenesses of YHWH, A Name of God revealed to us in the Old Testament but has revealed a New Name, a name Above all other names, yes even above the name YHWH as the name YHWH's SALVATION is the consummation of the plan, intent & purpose of God since before the foundation of the world. The name Yahoshua or Yeshua means YHWH's Salvation. It is the most recent Revelation of who GOD is that has been given to mankind. There is no greater name given among men by which they may know GOD. Sort of like apple updates, the machine won't run properly if at all without the latest update.

[@InfinitelyManic]

John 17:5's imperfect "to have" or "I had" indicates that the glory that Lord Jesus was referring to wasn't something given at some point in time, but that he had always possessed it; i.e., it was eternal. That is distinct from the glory of John 17:22, the perfect "to give", as well as the tense of 2 Tim 1:9 & Eph 1:4. So, to the extant you have not, can you address the respective verb tenses in another video?

[@houseofsaudisthebeast]

matthew 1:1 tells you he didnt pre-exist. he was begotten in the womb of his mother

[@Rydonittelo]

In John 1.1 it says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and nothing in creation was created without him and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

[@houseofsaudisthebeast]

@@Rydonittelo yes it says God created everything, not Jesus of Nazareth

[@Rydonittelo]

@@houseofsaudisthebeast Yes but all biblical scholars worth their salt say that who ever the author of John's gospel was that they were referring to Jesus as "the word". Its pretty clear that the gospel of John isn't connected the same way as the other 3 are and by the time John was written jesus was starting to be considered God incarnate.

[@houseofsaudisthebeast]

@@Rydonittelo Jesus is not God incarnate though, hes Christ incarnate, hes the Son of God, not Son is God

[@Rydonittelo]

@@houseofsaudisthebeast Ok. I'm pointing out that you're using the gospel of Mathew to say that the gospels implicitly say that Jesus isn't eternal but it clearly says in the later gospel of John, which was written independent of 3 gospels that took ideas and quotes from the Q gospel and each other that Jesus existed before creation. I'm not challenging your beliefs I'm challenging your interpretation of the new testament gospels.

[@Jeffmacaroni1542]

Maybe you can make a video addressing this, R. L. Solberg His you tube channel is, Defending the biblical roots of Christianity, The latest superstar in the Anti torah movement teaches its ok to celebrate Christmas because Jesus celebrated Hanukkah and thats not in Lev .23 ... Thanks

[@jayfisher1]

Good work! Colossians 1;16 in him all was created

[@ken440]

How does Col1:16 suggest Jesus pre existence to you?? Are you aware of the context of Colossians?

[@IsJesusGod.]

@@ken440 Good to see you Ken.

[@ken440]

Jay, you made an ambiguous statement. All WHAT AND WHERE was created? I am waiting for you to make your point. It seems you put your support with Kingdom Seekers and are a unitarian, as I do. So I guess you are reinforcing the truth that Jesus is the man raised and anointed, the son of God.

[@codyalexander3290]

@@ken440 what do I do with yeshua making the I am statement and before his birth being called the everlasting father?

[@ken440]

@@codyalexander3290 The everlasting father text is an issue about Is9:6 in reference to who is being spoken about. Translation into english in the past simply saw the three terms Councillor, Everlasting father, mighty God, Prince of peace, as names attached to the prophecied future child, the Messiah. Some now claim that the instigator and author of the plan of redemption is praised, i.e. father God, the God most high, YHWH. And the reason for the praise (messiah) brackets the praise of YHWH. A more Hebraic use of words. A child is born who will govern, a wonderful councillor. Then the everlasting Father as supplier of this messiah is given the credit, then the messiah again as a prince of peace, is further described in function. Another view is the "mighty God" section is a reference to Gods authority given to the messiah. As in "men are called gods" in various places in scripture, its about representation. In other words a disputed section of translation. The I AM was my favorite proof of trinity when I was a trinitarian for nearly 40 years, until someone alerted me to the greek meanings of the greek text it is translated from. Understanding this was 80% of me giving up the trinity theology. The two words translated I AM are "ego" (self) "eimi" (inclusive expression) meaning "thats me" or "am" or "am he" depending on the context. Jesus says "ego eimi the bread of life" (I am the bread of life, and it is not I AM the bread of life is it? nor does he say I EXIST the bread of life) and also "ego eimi the living water" and to the woman at the well he says "ego eimi" when they discuss the coming messiah, and it is translated "i am he" because it is inclusive of the context, which is messiah. Jesus says in our vernacular "thats me lady." The man born blind after healing says to the priests "ego eimi" and it is translated "i am he" because it is context of the guy who was healed. In Jn8:58 Jesus says "ego eimi" when the Jews try to laugh at him in derision for saying Abraham knew him and was glad. Context of Jn8:58 is the jews mentioned their ancestor Abraham, and should know the promises to Abraham that he will be the forefather of the messiah, so Jesus points out that Abraham was glad in that prophecy, and the tricky pharisees made a joke about him somehow living for 2000 years but was obviously not even 50 years old. Jesus in relation to that discussion about what made Abraham glad said "ego eimi" which if honestly translated would be the same as the other examples, inclusion in subject, "I am he." i.e. I am the Messiah." If you get a greek interlinear which has the strongs reference numbers (free app on a smartphone) then all this is able to be checked, I did and it rings true. Jesus even said to those Jewish pharisees a few earlier verses "you are liars and murderers who cant hear what I am saying," so please dont come back with the "devout jew who knows scripture" reply. Check it out honestly.

[@sandracockrum17]

Another note on my last comment is notice vs 5 in Isaiah 42, Thus saith God, the LORD or El the YHWH. Now El in Hebrew comes from the root h352 meaning: ram ram as food) ram as sacrifice) ram skin dyed red, for tabernacle) pillar, door post, jambs, pilaster strong man, leader, chief mighty tree, terebinth Who is the ram? Why is the ram skin of the tabernacle (think temple, think body) dyed red? And notice in Rev. the rider on the white horse is already soaked in blood BEFORE He goes to war.

[@gregalexander3170]

Good Job John !

[@Pedro-of4tn]

Brothers and Sisters, what about this scripture?... John 1:1-5 Complete Jewish Bible 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not suppressed it.

[@ZezimaMills]

That cannot simply be explained away by some preconceived ideology. It was the word from the beginning, who was then made flesh, St John 1:14, and dwelt with us. The Word above us, came to be with us in Jesus Christ. God above us, God with us, (Emmanuel) and now God in us by His Holy Spirit.

[@Pedro-of4tn]

@@kingdomseekers1973 Can you provide the link to your video?.

[@iJoel00]

@@ZezimaMills Jesus Christ is not the word - the word (dabar in the Hebrew and logos in the Greek) is divine utterance - the speech/plan of the Father. That same word that it was prophesied the messiah would speak in Deut 18:15-19 - the same word the messiah says he speaks in John 14:24. Jesus Christ is the life and light of men within the word of the Father (John 1:4) - the same light that John the Baptist witnessed to in John 1:6-13. When the plan came to reality, or was “fleshed out” (became flesh), we saw the glory of the word (i.e. Jesus Christ), glory as of the only begotten from the Father - he is the glory of the word in John 1:14, not the word itself. “Name” hebraically is a reference to one’s character and authority - the name Emmanuel is a reference to the Messiah’s position as agent of the Father - the representation of his character/authority as granted by the Father, and through obedience to the law of the Father (Heb 1:3)… not a suggestion of God’s literal presence among us.

[@IsJesusGod.]

Pedro. Let's start at the (beginning), at John 1:1. I believe John 1:1 is the most misunderstood Scripture within Christianity. This is because MOST of Christianity believe the word in John 1:1 is a second person, even millions who do not believe Jesus is GOD. Let's have a look at John 1:1. John 1:1 The Correct Meaning. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. If Jesus is the (Word), who is WITH GOD, and if Jesus were GOD as MOST believe, we would now have TWO GODS SIDE by SIDE, contradicting the whole Bible. John 1:1 is simply telling us: In the beginning was the word: meaning GOD's (word), statement, speech, divine utterance, plan, power, authority of GOD expressing Yahweh’s thoughts, action, message, purpose and will, spoken by the breath of Yahweh’s mouth, which is why John tells us: and the word was with God, and the word was God, as we are told in Psalm 33:6: By Yahweh’s (word,) the heavens were made; all their army by the breath of his mouth. World English Bible. Notice how Jesus tells us how the (word) comes from the mouth of GOD: But answering He said, "It has been written: 'The man shall live not by bread alone, but by every word coming out of the mouth of God.'" Matthew 4:4. And we know from what Jesus tells us in John 14:24 saying the (word) of GOD, and His commandments come through Jesus from His Father: The one not loving Me does not keep My words. And the (word) that you hear is not Mine, but that of the Father having sent Me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John 1:2 The Correct Meaning. (He) was in the beginning with God. The word (HE) is a FALSE modern translation, DECEIVING MOST into believing (HE) is a second person, however the Greek word is instead (Οὗτος) and says (THIS). John 1:2 is simply telling us: (THIS) was in the beginning with God, meaning (THIS) plan, message, purpose and will, of Yahweh was in the beginning with GOD. ----------------------------------------------- All things came into being through (Him), and without (Him) not even one thing came into being that has come into being. The word (Him) is a FALSE modern translation, DECEIVING MOST into believing (Him) is a second person, however the Greek word is (autos) and also translates as (IT). John 1:3 is simply telling us: All things came into being through (IT), meaning ALL of Creation came into existence by Yahweh’s (word), statement, speech, divine utterance, plan, and power: and without (IT) Yahweh’s (word), statement, speech, divine utterance, plan, and power: not even one thing came into being that has come into being. Zechariah 12:1 An oracle. The word of Yahweh concerning Israel. Yahweh, who stretches out the heavens, and lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him says: ---------------------------------------------- John 1-4 The Correct Meaning. In (Him) was life, and the life was the light of men. The word (Him) is a FALSE modern translation, DECEIVING MOST into believing (Him) is a second person, however the Greek word is (autos), which also translates as (IT). John 1:4 is simply saying (autō αὐτῷ IT), meaning Yahweh’s (word), divine plan, purpose and power: was life, and the life was the light of men. The correct translations are confirmed by many like William Tyndale, martyred for his efforts to get the Bible to the public. “In the beginnynge was the worde, and the worde was with God, and the worde was god. The same was in the beginnynge with god. All thinges were made by it, and without it, was made nothinge that was made. In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men, and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not” (William Tyndale, The New Testament, 1534). Please read John 1 in 50+ English Translations By Sir Anthony Buzzard.

[@Jeffmacaroni1542]

@@Pedro-of4tn John 1:1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJjPdGCOa7Zjaac

[@aleko3562]

Luke 10 : 18 ?

[@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel]

Peace to you friend. I am under the impression that because יהושע (Christ) says “I saw Satan falling out of Heaven as lightning!”, that you believe this supports the idea he pre-existed. Is that true?

[@johnlawson6851]

The context is the cities that didn't accept him "And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades." Luke 10:15 ESV

[@aleko3562]

@@johnlawson6851 With all respect you have been deceived, even chosen a howling wolf as a thumbnail! praying for ya dude!

[@iJoel00]

@@aleko3562 what is it that you believe this verse is suggesting with respect to the topic at hand?

[@johnlawson6851]

@@aleko3562 I love wolves, did not Isaiah say the wolf shall lay with the lamb? Maybe a lion is too dangerous too 😄

[@grantknott]

Way to go brother. I used to use those terms (notional and ideal pre-existence) but they inevitably lead to derision with Trinitarians/Arians and the like. They seem to respect the term prophetic existence a bit more maybe because of the biblical wording

[@grantknott]

@@kingdomseekers1973 Yeah, umm, I think the Greek grammar uses the prophetic past not the prophetic perfect. I'm not totally sure on that so please forgive me if I'm wrong. Same idea though. Good job

[@Jeffmacaroni1542]

Masterful !!! The final nail in the trinity coffin !

[@sandracockrum17]

Well now I don't see my first comment as I wanted to edit it....anyway, We don't claim we pre existed because we don't claim nor does the Bible claim that we came down directly from heaven, as Jesus did, rather we came from our physical parents back to the original Adam who came from the dust of the earth, earthly, carnal, will return to the earth etc... But Jesus is the Spirit from Heaven. Conceived by Holy Spirit. Non of us were conceived this way, which is why Jesus said we MUST be Born Again, of Water AND Spirit. Peace

[@billschlegel1]

As you mention, John 17:22 is the death knell of the deity of Christ interpretation of John 17:5. Also, John 17:24 where Jesus said the Father GAVE him glory before the foundation of the world. For Trinitarians to be consistent about how they interpret John 17:5, Jesus must at some time before his incarnation NOT had glory, and then WAS GIVEN glory. It's not only that Jesus "had" glory (17:5), but he WAS GIVEN glory before the foundation of the world. BTW, "world" in the Gospel of John never means planet earth. It means a segment of human society. As you mention, John 17 is a declaration of the man Jesus's trust in YAH, not a recollection of a pre-incarnate being. The "deity of Christ" interpretation attempts to eliminate the man Christ Jesus.

[@DavisLG]

What Bible are u using?

[@iJoel00]

@@DavisLG the better question might be, what does the Hebrew and Greek say, regardless of the translation being used?

[@DavisLG]

@@iJoel00 no not my question.

[@iJoel00]

@@DavisLG obviously that wasn’t your question - I said, “The better question might be…” because your question, seemingly, begins from a position of ignorance (I’m not calling you ignorant). It should not matter what English translation a person uses, generally - what actually matters is whether or not they have an understanding of what the text says from the perspective of its original languages, and the culture from which it originated. There isn’t a single English translation of scripture without flaws. There are more accurate word-for-word translations of scripture, such as the NASB, ESV, or KJV (in that order), and there are less accurate thought-for-thought translations such as the NLT, or the Message - and they’re all on a scale with the most accurate being an Interlinear with the original languages - but, with any English translation, there will be translator bias, so, even the “most accurate translation” requires one to dig into the meaning of individual words, and context in order to discern truth.

[@DavisLG]

@@iJoel00 yes translorator bias is a thing for sure. Many have that now days even when looking into the meaning of words when trying to prove their point!

[@tylerporter2171]

Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify him who has dominion over all things, him who was concealed; for from the beginning the Son of A'dam existed in secret, which El Elyon preserved in the presence of his power, and revealed to the elect. CHANOK (ENOCH) 62:10 את CEPHER

[@ken440]

do you consider Jesus was secretly pre existent for eternity past? This could be the secret we read about in 1Cor, Gal, Ephesians etc, the "secret hid in God, that if the devil had known he would not have killed our lord."

[@iJoel00]

How did he exist “in secret… preserved in the presence of his power”? You cannot say with certainty that it was a literal existence. Existing “in secret” could very well be a reference to an ideal existence within the “mind,” or foreknowledge of 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄… an ideal existence that was then revealed to the elect through visions of what would come to pass in the future, and then realized in the flesh upon his birth and earthly ministry…

[@ken440]

@@iJoel00 yep. that is the context of scripture.

[@cghrios783]

59 Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 6 On hearing it, many of His disciples said, "This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?" 61 Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, "Does this offend you? 62 Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before? 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 However, there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.) 65 Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him." 66 From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him. Please do not deny who Yehoshua is. Open your eyes. He awaits for you.

[@kingdomseekers1973]

He was talking about ascending to life from the grave. The spirit gives life is the context. He will live again as before he was crucified. 🙂🙂🙂

[@shirleybeetge2077]

Triniterians keep using John 1 verses 1- 5. The bible are Gods words from the beginning to the end. God worked through the prophets Jesus included through the Spirit. The Spirit is God. 1 question who is the Word God is.

[@ZezimaMills]

1Timothy 3:16 , amen

[@IsJesusGod.]

@@ZezimaMills 1 Timothy 3:16 The FALSE Trinitarian Translation. King James Bible And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, There are many FALSE modern Trinitarian Translations saying: God was manifest in the flesh, which is DECEIVING many into believing Jesus was GOD who became FLESH. However, the correct Translations is the Greek word (Ὃς Who) meaning, He Jesus was manifest in the flesh. The SIMPLE facts are, Jesus was a MAN and the SON of MAN. Contrary to the fact that: GOD IS NOT MAN, THAT HE SHOULD LIE, OR A SON OF MAN Numbers 23:19.

[@IsJesusGod.]

Well said Shirley.👍

[@sandracockrum17]

Sort of a trick question. The flesh being, Yahoshua, didn't physically exist until he was born of a woman by the Holy Spirit. He didn't have an earthly Father. He is in the bosom of the Father John 1:18 Yahoshua claimed to be the living bread from heaven the Living Word, and the light of the world, he claims to be the alpha & omega, the Living ONE who was and is & is to come. Rev 1:18 The Word that was with God and is God. According to John. John was not that light & neither are we. However, Yahoshua was & is that light. Who but God could claim to be The Way, The Truth & the Light & Life of men. Who but God is sinless, who but God was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Who but God could be the Word of God?

[@sandracockrum17]

John, the problem is YHWH's Glory WILL NOT be given to our shared with ANYONE and no one other than the ONE he has given it to & shared it with. That is himself, In my Oneness belief, that is Yahoshua, who is in the bosom of the Father, which you could say is the heart of GOD. Or in your Oneness belief he gives/ shares it ONLY to/ with his Messiah. Isaiah 42:1-8 So what's the problem? Unless you're (anyone) in Christ, you cannot receive YHWH'S Glory. Because Jesus shares it with those who are in him. No one comes to the Father but by Him. So this glory that was stored up before the world began is not, was not & will not be given or shared with ANY other. I agree we were all planted in the garden on the 6th day but the Tree of Life wasn't planted, it simply was there in the midst because it existed and was not made or planted as all the other trees were, and also the tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil, Free will, existed to choose whom you would serve, your own understanding/reasoning or God's Truth. Notice in End of THE Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, there is only ONE Tree still standing, why? What happened to the other tree? Think about it

[@7ashoBeam]

It is always troubling when coming across people referring to Jesus in His Hebrew name. You just know that somewhere down the line you are going to run into heresies like this which is just about the worst kind of Bible twisting in existence by the lost!

[@7ashoBeam]

@@kingdomseekers1973 have you ever heard of something called Pentecost?

[@cghrios783]

Yehovah YHWH is omniscient so he knows us before we are born. He knows our lives. Yehoshua has been in heaven since before the world was.

[@kingdomseekers1973]

Do you think humans can pre exist

[@tylerporter2171]

In that hour was this Son of A'dam invoked before Yahuah Tseva'oth, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of Days. Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of Yahuah Tseva'oth. A support shall he be and he shall be the light of nations. He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of Yahuah Tseva'oth. Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and forever. CHANOK (ENOCH) 48:2-5 את CEPHER

[@tylerporter2171]

Proverbs 8:22-36

[@iJoel00]

Enoch was seeing visions of heavenly things - just because he saw and described a vision of the messiah being “invoked” does not mean that he literally existed from before the foundations of the world - things that the Father has set in motion, or has stated will be, within His “heart,” or will, can be spoken of as if they already exist, or have come to pass, even if they don’t literally exist, or have not literally taken place - it’s referred to as prolepsis or the prophetic perfect. Wisdom is, via personification (a common hebraic literary technique), described as a woman throughout proverbs… are you suggesting it is a reference to the messiah?

[@Pedro-of4tn]

@@iJoel00 John 1:1-5 Complete Jewish Bible 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not suppressed it.

[@iJoel00]

@@Pedro-of4tn the word/logos is not the messiah - you’ve only been taught that it is. The word is the speech/plan of the Father, 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄. The messiah is the life and light of men within the word/logos in John 1:4. He is what John came witnessing to in John 1:6-13. And he is the glory of the word/logos in John 1:14.

[@servantofthemosthigh6257]

Here's the question for you: What if you're wrong? What if The Almighty Holy Spirit chose before the foundation of the world to beget a physical Son. What if He chose to let His Son create the heavens and earth as His inheritance (read scriptures carefully on who created? Please provide a response to the following: John 6:38 - Jesus states, "I came down from heaven" He is speaking of pre-existance in heaven. May I shine a light to a book, Two Powers in heaven. Read scriptures carefully.....

[@user-ov4pw5es7n]

fun fact he is not christian he believe that jesus is human 😂

[@kingdomseekers1973]

The label "Christian" is anyone who follows Christ and His teachings. No mention of having to be trinitarian

[@InChrist95]

Your video is easily refuted

[@InChrist95]

@@kingdomseekers1973 Would you like to have a discussion?

[@InChrist95]

​​@@kingdomseekers1973 You never accepted so this is why I don't respect heretics because you don't want to deal with truth

[@discipleochrist4202]

Jesus Christ is not only the son of God, He is GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF

[@discipleochrist4202]

@@kingdomseekers1973 there is one GOD.

[@iJoel00]

@@discipleochrist4202 that’s correct - there is only one true God - that is the Father, 𐤉𐤄𐤅𐤄. This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5 One does not mediate on his own behalf… God is also not a man (Num 23:19)…

[@IsJesusGod.]

Disciple O'christ? IS JESUS GOD ALMIGHTY? YOU THEN DENY THE FATHER AND THE SON. *but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, THE SON OF GOD,* and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31. *Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living GOD.* Matthew 16:16. And that by believing, you may have life, in his name. John 20:31. Who is the liar, but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to use-eternal life. 1 John 2.22-25. THIS IS THE SHOCKING TRUTH, FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, AND TEACH JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY. According to what Jesus said: for unless you believe that I am he: (the Messiah, the promised deliverer, THE CHRIST, the SON of His ONE TRUE GOD), you will die in your sins.” John 8:24.

[@IsJesusGod.]

@@discipleochrist4202 You 👉 there is one GOD. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Me 👇 Well lets see what you believe? You believe in (GOD the Father). One GOD. (GOD) The Son. Two GODS. (GOD The Holy Spirit. Three GODS. So when the TRUTH is admitted, you Trinitarians do not believe in ONE GOD, but THREE GODS!

[@discipleochrist4202]

@@IsJesusGod. Baptize in the name of the Father, the son, and the holy spirit... What is that name? What is the name given that all shall bow in heaven and earth...? Who is the father, the son, and the holy spirit? In whom do these dwell? There is one name given where all three agree in ONE. JESUS CHRIST IS NOT ONLY THE SON OF GOD HE IS NONE OTHER THEN GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF! SELAH

[@donaldharvey2169]

This is heresary. Jesus along with the Father and Holy Spirirt has always been and will always been.

[@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel]

Peace to you Donald. May I ask you to qualify that statement?

[@iJoel00]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[@donaldharvey2169]

@@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel yes servral vesus. But will start with John 8:58, John 1:1 - 14, John 20:28-29, Phil 2:10-11, Isiah9:6 and Gen 1:26.

[@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel]

@@donaldharvey2169 Right let’s go verse by verse we’ll start with Isaiah 9:6 . It reads: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” (Isa 9:6). First I will ask do you believe this verse is Trinitarian?

[@IsJesusGod.]

@@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel The Trinitarians use a false translation of Isaiah 9:6, as with most of their false translations. And I know where you are going with your question, good one. 👌

[@jayrocky9067]

Jesus always existed.. the “word became flesh “ … He saw satan fall like lightning. He was the “ Word” .. “Spirit” then became the Man Jesus..